Omer Bartov-Israel Guilty of Genocide, Ethnic-cleansing; US Totally Complicit; Israel Could Implode
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- Israel is guilty of "genocide, ethnic-cleansing & annexation" in Gaza; the US is "totally complicit"; Israel faces "a terrible future" & could "implode": Professor of Holocaust & Genocide Studies, Brown University, Omer Bartov
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One of the world’s foremost scholars on the holocaust and genocide studies has said Israel is guilty of “genocide, ethnic-cleansing and annexation” in Gaza. Prof. Omer Bartov added that the United States is “totally complicit”. He said Israel faces “a terrible future” and if it does not consciously change it could “implode”.
In a 45-minute interview to Karan Thapar for The Wire, to mark the first anniversary of the start of the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza, which is the 7th of October, Prof. Bartov said that President Biden could have insisted in November or December of 2023 that Israel must ceasefire and find a political solution to the crisis in Gaza but he consciously and deliberately refused to do so. Prof. Bartov called this a “major mistake”.
In the interview to The Wire, Prof. Bartov said if Israel continues the way it has been behaving for the last year it will become “increasingly isolated” and “impoverished”. The people who will suffer the most are the Palestinians who are 50% of the population in the land area that Israel controls. However, Prof. Bartov added that the Jewish people will also suffer.
I will stop there because I firmly believe you should hear Prof. Bartov yourself. His interview is a commanding tour d’horizon both of the situation in Israel and the mood of the Israeli people as well as the situation in the region and internationally. Very rarely will you come across an academic and scholar with the grasp Prof. Bartov has of the subject and his enormous sweep of the details. I can confidently add that you will learn a lot from this interview and it will give you a great sense of perspective as we approach the first anniversary of the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza.
To help you, I will give you the list of questions asked. They will indicate the rich analytical content of this interview. If there is only one interview you see to mark the anniversary of the Israel-Hamas war, I strongly recommend it should be this one.
Here are the questions:
1) It’s one year since the Israel-Hamas war began and during those 12 months you have done two famous newspaper essays on how you view the situation in Israel. In November, writing for The New York Times, you said “there is no proof that genocide is now taking place in Gaza”. But in August, writing for The Guardian, you said: “It was no longer possible to deny that Israel was engaged in systematic war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocidal actions … the ultimate goal of this entire undertaking from the very beginning had been to make the entire Gaza strip uninhabitable, and to debilitate its population to such a degree that it would either die out or seek all possible options to flee the territory.” Can you start by explaining what’s convinced you - a former IDF soldier but also a historian of the Holocaust - that Israel is carrying out a genocide in Gaza?
2) In your August article for The Guardian you wrote about a meeting at Ben-Gurion University in June which was interrupted by a group of students, many of whom had been soldiers who had fought in Gaza. Of them you write: “The young men and women I spoke with that day were filled with rage … because, I think, they felt betrayed by everyone around them”. You say they felt betrayed by the media, by senior commanders, by politicians, by intellectuals and leftists, by the US government and by anti-semitic students protesting against Israel in western universities. You say “they seemed fearful and insecure and confused”. Tell me about the mood of these people because, I presume, they are the future of Israel.
3) You write that these young students reminded you of “the German students union” of 1930 which was taken over by the Nazis. You end that part of the essay with the words: “I left that meeting filled with trepidation and foreboding”. What precisely were you worried about? What were your fears?
4) I know that Israeli society - with the exception of some people like Gideon Levy - have accepted or even supported what Israel is doing in Gaza. But what is the impact on the soldiers themselves? They are the perpetrators of this horror. Are they all like the students at Ben-Gurion University or are some filled with repulsion and guilt for what they were made to do?
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It is a heinous crime against humanity .
@@curio78
No he meant Netanyahu and his terror party Likud!
Stop the holocaust in Palestine
The very idea that an apartheid state continuing to exist and furthermore guilty of committing war crimes and genocide is just not a reality the world should tolerate!!
Drama queen , go to israel count one by one how many are palestinian in israel university 😂😂😂
The world should not tolerate the Genocide. The world should not anymore tolerate NOTHING what netanyahu is doing. It iis not normal. Not sane.
netanyahu must to Haag.
Stop netanyahu, iof, gallant, gvir smotrich, the cruel and aggressive settler-Terrorism and zionists like rhat.
The members of the US government and congress should find their own heart and begin with being honest with themselves. On 24.7.24 both the speech of netanyahu im Gongress and the reactions of the members were awful and terrible to hear and to see.
NOW AGAIN
Palestian People are burned alive by iof in Gaza.
HOWEVER:
the US are sending to israel new weapons and soldiers to use them.
HOWEVER:
the US give 30 days for Israel to go on with the Genocide by iof in Gaza.
ON THE ONE HAND
there are in the US lots of Pro- Palestina Protests, against the Genocide. Students, working Americans, Americans without work, even lots of Jewish Americans and Elderly American people are taking part of them.
That is honorable to be for Humanity and against Murdering Killing Inhuman Suffering against Ethnic Cleancing in Gaza To be for Human Rights.
ON THE SECOND HAND:
It is said that jewish population is brainwashed.
It is also said that zionism is a cult.
That is just now for me: the picture,
the photograph
Like an illustration or reflection of the US
during this Holocaust by iof in Gaza. - With support of the US.
What would Mr Dr Martin Luther King say about this situation now in the US and in the world ?
He wes an exceptional wise and honorable human being.
You can be proud of him.
He has clearly shown the WAY. To all of us.
Then what should we do about it? lol
US and UK totally complicit.
Other countries stonewalling UN / ICJ action against Israel are also complicit.
Never ever thought UK would sink so low
And Germany!
@@junegoddarddevon8306Maybe, just maybe you (and all other wellmeaning folks) had an unrealistically high regard of the Western powers to start off with. This was probably brought on by your governments convincing you that they had "honourable intentions" vis á viz the ME and MSM which has never been even handed in their reporting on the Zionist project called Israel. They (and possibly you) are sh*tscared of being labelled anti-semitic.
Not complicit but the planners of genocide
@@junegoddarddevon8306 you should have, UK has a long bloody history of extreme evil.
Hats off to Prof Bartov...for calling a spade a spade.
Gratitude of Mr. Thaper for arranging this interview. The guest is impartial and his views are impartial too.
❤❤❤
The supreme arrogance of that Jewish state has made it feel that it is above international law and the norms of morality and justice. Germany too had the same mindset once upon a time.
You know still they still have a conscience, unlike the middle east muslims. Have you ever heard Pakistan even accept killing 3 million Bengalis? Also the minority in Iran is now nonexistent. When I was in Iran non muslims were 50% of the population in Tehran and surrounding provinces, tell me how in 30 years in gets less then 1%. Also the killing of 5 million muslims by muslims in middle east in last decade was by other muslims.
@@suryaprakash72771 Germany is the biggest supporter of what is going on in Gaza today.
@@dvegule920 that's no surprise as they're still yet to learn their lessons from their dark and terrible past.
Germany is also supporting the Genocide, it's still with same mindset
@@TheIMRANULKRIMThe impression I get is that Germany is just following the boss. They're actually still occupied by the US in seven military bases. Their government is horrible but their population does not seem to agree at all with what's going on.
The comparison of present-day Israel to Germany under the Nazis is perfectly valid. It’s not even that ironic. Israel’s version of Nazism feeds on the Holocaust.
@@bgmshroom That's exactly why it's ironic though.
They use victim-hood to entitle atrocities, c h o s e n e s s to avoid looking at why o th e r s don't like them.
Exactly, also looking at the US history of 'manifest destiny' their ideology matches up with isreal as well.
Occupier: NOT allowed self defence
Occupied: HAVE right to self defence
18000 children killed in Gaza and now in West Bank and Lebanon 😥
@@shabirahmadshah8163 Impossible to know the actual amount killed in the last year, it will likely take decades to determine, the 40k total killed is likely an extreme undercount.
@@griffinsalmon5798 Yes bro 😥
A very insightful interview - rarely available otherwise. Thanks to Karan and Prof Bartov.
❤❤❤
Bartov is the most credible voice in the world on this. He didn't jump the gun.
No hes not
@@deadmanwalking6342yes he is
Omer Bartov was born in 1954 in Ein HaHoresh, Israel. His father, Hanoch Bartov, was an author and journalist whose parents immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from Poland before Hanoch was born.[5] Bartov's mother immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from Buczacz, Poland (now Buchach, Ukraine), in the mid-1930s.[6] Bartov fought in the 1973 Yom Kippur War as a company commander.[7] In 1976 he suffered severe wounds, together with a score of other soldiers, in a training accident due to a commander's negligence, an episode the IDF covered up.[8] Bartov was educated at Tel Aviv University and obtained a PhD from St. Antony's College, Oxford, with a doctoral thesis on the Nazi indoctrination of the German army and its crimes on the Eastern front in World War II.[a][8]
I find it amazing that the professor keeps describing a situation in Israel that is exactly that is called Apartheid and yet he refuses to acknowledge that Apartheid has existed from the beginning.
There were different forces at the beginning, some pro, some anti-apartheid. If you like the country you can focus on the anti-apartheid. By now that force has completely disappeared and it's indefensible.
It kind of did as Ben Gurian, Itzhak Shamir etc. never wanted a single Arab in that land, but it’s gray at that time because many Zionists were left wing and there was Infact some part of Zionists wanted coexistence but that never happened. That segment became Hadash party. Hadash party is now the only true left wing party that is truly committed towards coexistence and has couple of members in the Knesset. The true left wing were sidelined and over taken by the messianic Jews, primarily the Bulgarian, Ukrainians and Russian Jews.
You may come across Miko Peled, whose grand father was in the core council that declared independent Israel in 1948 and also his father was a general in IDF. the whole family now no longer subscribe to Zionism.
Thanks
Sad it took Omer so long to see the light, but it takes a good man with intellectual honesty and integrity to change his position publicly like this
Great thinking person, a wonderful historian Omar Barthov,
Good evening sir. Massive pressure from UNSC and the people from globally must put pressure for ceasefire permanently on war waging countries.
Absolutely fantastic interview with a wonderful and truly great man. Thank you 🙏
Mr Bartov a wonderful human being & upright mind, I hope zionist listen to him.🙏
They are drunk on blood lust.
Excellent interview as always…..loved the possible solution by Prof Omer Bartov……..it’s his vision and I hope it can become a reality some time in future 🙏
Professor Bartov is incredible
Prof Bartov! Thank you for a voice of reason with Israeli accent
Cant agree more on title. True.
All non extremist Indians should really watch this peek into the crystal ball. Israel today is the final destination of the journey India has been on since 2014.
Thank you for interviewing Mr Omer Bartov❤ thanks The Wire.
Thanks!
Vision, one state solution. Israel is shrinking, people are leaving and Israel will legally be-forced to give land back. West Bank goes back to Palestine. Visualize Justice for the Palestinian people.
Follow B D S
Very informative interview. Well done.
This is one among many reasons we will be voting for Jill Stein and Butch Ware 💚🍉💚
EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!
End the occupation # FREE PALESTINIANS ❤
Thank you prof Bartov for your valuable insightful interview 💛🙏🏼
Most insightful interview on the longstanding injustice to the Palestinian people by the Israeli state, its consequences and possible solution.
Very insightful interview. Thank you
Is this the conduct of a civilised world.Or we have regressed to the stone age ??
when did we progress from stone age? Tribalism uber allez
AN EXCELLENT INTERVIEW.
THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH !
GOD BLESS YOU BOTH MISTERS WITH YOUR FAMILIES.
Insightful interview. Encourage all my Indian citizens to watch.
Great interview, thank you!
In one sitting, the professor stated
Israel committed a genocide and
effectively stated
the soldiers are innocent and
the Israelis are innocent.
Oh the irony!
Two state is a myth. The common federal state like EU is just another myth. Settlers are part of apartheid state and how do you expect them to respect Palestinians people ?
How do you expect that Palestinians people live without as armed state? Without abolishing IDF there won't any peace for Palestinians people.
Abolish apartheid state, IDF, make one state with constitution , equal right for all irrespective of their faith a s ethnicity. This idea is fully supported by Palestinians, Hamas, Iran, Hezbullah, but only people who don't support this idea are Jewish Zionist, American Christian Zionist, basically entire west.
That is not practical. They cannot be a minority and risk further issues. Especially a region filled with fundamentalists. Both sides have that same arrogant approach, possibly due to the violent parts of the Old Testament and the Koran in general. They cannot live in peace together ever again. They once might have. So suggesting impractical ideas will not help/ The Palestinians can join Jordan or some other Arab state and be first-class citizens in a muslim majority. Anyway, most of them are Jordanian descendants. The Sykes Pico agreement partitioned it incorrectly, based on tribal differences and wanting to give each monarch/caliph, their own kingdom, instead of one nation. Like they did with India.
The Arabs need to accept that attacking them in 48 was a mistake. A consequence of that and the 67 war, was them losing more land with the reasoning being a security perimeter. But it appears the Israelis have an agenda to surreptitiously occupy land all over. Like in the West Bank. So the longer the 2 state prolongs, the longer will be suffering for all. Israel, IMO, now is caught between a rock and a hard place. It cannot forcibly evict its people out like it did with Gaza. And like he says, would lead to civil war. It's not a matter or right or wrong, but the consequences that would follow, even if that action was right. The arabs now want to go back to the 67 timeline, but Israel cannot do a Gaza like eviction again. Hence the stalemate.
@@North_Lights Western elites. When you get to just regular people, there is much more pro-Palestinian support, and a growing anger towards our governments and Israel.
No this idea is NOT supported by Islamicist organisations who want one state under Sharia - whereby Jews have to leave or if not leave, pay jizya extra tax or convert.
Since 1948 the US has given Israel approximately $158 billion in military aid. According to inflation that is $310 billion.
Ans more. Than just direct aid. There are other ways of aid
The guest forgets that most of those 1200 killed on Oct 7 were killed by Israeli helicopter gun ships.
H a n n ib al D
You cannot occupy a territory for more than 75 years and expect a warm hospitality. Palestinians are fighting for their freedom which most of the free people have stopped realizing the value of. It did not start on Oct 7.
Thank you for your truthful and intelligent analysis,,🙏🌹❤️
There was and is only a One State Solution l. Giving half the population (and more if you think of the right of return) less than 22% of the land is a joke! And that too without the right to have a military, a rights of trade, the right to control entry and exit etc
Sir, Plz call Prof Murandi (Tehran University).
@@ehteshamali8319 indeed
Also call Ghadi Francis the journalist
Superlative interview but disturbing!
This interview was good! What happened when you interviewed prof. Mirandi? It was not nearly as well conducted..
Great prof with a nice journalist ❤
Good interview; thank you.
Excellent interview! TG, no interruptions from KT! I find it hard to believe thst Israel can continue for a couple of decades in a state of war. Secular European Jews have already started fleeing, religious Jews who won't fight cannot replace the gaps in the IDF, to mention just one aspect. Proof of genocide is amply provided by IDF soldiers themselves on the Net, without any fear or shame! Its shocking and v hard to watch. Today's IDF has even crossed the bestiality their ancestors suffered in the Holocaust. Not a fan of Iran or Hamas, but a fight against occupation, esp a brutal one, is legitimate. Haganah, Stern gang, Irgun, knew that too.
Fully agree with you except for the last sentence. Haganah, the Stern gang and Irgun were fighting exactly which occupation?! They were conducting umpteen terrorist attacks against Palestinian civilians like massacres and blowing up public transport buses full of civilians ... something decades later the Palestinians copied. They also blew up the King David Hotel in 1946 while Palestine was still a mandate. So which occupation are you talking about?
Observed Very Serious Discussion compared with all international channels, I have so far watched.
Israel is an apartheid state in the eyes of the world. I think the change may be quicker than the prof thinks.
A really good chance to hear Prof. Bartov. Appreciated him speaking about “A Land For All.” My good friend sent that over to me months ago to look at, and this is the second time I’m seeing it.
El filósofo argentino judío, Ariel Feldman ha sostenido que para salvar a Palestina hay que salvar al judaísmo del Estado de Israel.
gracias por cita
Russia is now slowly getting involved , perhaps the only way this will reallly change
Insightful and enlightening as usual 🙏👍
Very enlightening and well conducted interview. Thanks!
Very very important sir jee
Super - thank you.
Truly insightful discussion, importantly the possible practical solution
Jill Stein Butch Ware 2024
How exceptional to be able to be invited to overhear these conversation about this most powerful lingering lamentation./ But what a vision of being citizens able to be citizens in both states. with no borders. South Africa did take at least ten years after apartheid. However, Palestine will advance far more rapidly. Israel, no matter its denouement, will take much more time. The whole world was watching monstrous war crimes against humanity, and along the way, some 'functional' mythologies have been pierced.
Only Biden can stop it. But he won't do it 😢
Putin can stop it! It will take time but he can
Good journalism
Is economic stagflation a big problem for the European weapon exporters??????
Fortunately, the interviewer didn’t constantly interrupt as he did with the Iranian professor Marandi.
This sad that these men think that cowardness is acceptable!!!
Important
I agree with most of what the guest said, but what he said about Khamas is not correct. Khamas as a group has already formally accepted the 2-state solution, which necessarily means that they’ve recognized israel as a state. But, as is the case with any large group of people, I’m sure that there are some individual members or fighters, who may have more extremist views. But there are other groups for that. And there are other Palestinian armed groups from Gaza who are more extreme, & which were formed by previous members of Khamas for those exact reasons, such as accepting the 2-state solution, recognize the state of Israel, etc. So I highly doubt that even those within Khamas who might have more extreme views, might not hold those views as tightly, or else they’d move on to another group. That’s my opinion anyway. Lastly, Khamas’ official position is the 1-state solution where any or all of the Palestinian refugees would be able to return to what right now is called the state of Israel, become full citizens, participate in the voting process, and have full equal rights along with the Israelis. In other words, 1 state from the river to the sea, populated by both the Palestinians & the Israelis, each with full equal rights. By the way though, it’s different from the confederate system that the guest talked about & supports.
they have not supported 2 state solution - that is not true.
Nice talk. Why were you interrupting profesor Morandi ?
IF I MUST DIE”
BY REFAAT ALAREER
If I must die,
you must live
to tell my story
to sell my things
to buy a piece of cloth
and some strings,
(make it white with a long tail)
so that a child, somewhere in Gaza
while looking heaven in the eye
awaiting his dad who left in a blaze-
and bid no one farewell
not even to his flesh
not even to himself-
sees the kite, my kite you made, flying up above
and thinks for a moment an angel is there
bringing back love
If I must die
let it bring hope
let it be a tale
History repeats first, as tragedy then as farce - Karl Marx.
A war? Wouldn't "uprising" be more accurate?
Is the USA debt $34 lakhs crores???? Is it good for the world???????
All Israelis have 2 passeports and will go there if things don't word out.
No they do not.
A large number absolutely do, so at least try and state facts
Good to see you are covering the side of this narrative that has been purposefully overlooked by so many news outlets........making these outlets complicit. Karan I remember you from Walpole days......next time I'm back in India I will look you up! Keep up the great journalism!
There are activ working trolls here just now.
I am a 70+ European female of colour and I have no hope any longer. I think I will remain sad and depressed till the end of my life.
Israel is a vindicive, bloodthirsthy and murderous society.
And the Arab world? Don't they have a learning capacity? Have they ever heard of "United we stand, divided we fall"?
My heart cries for the brave Palestinian people.
The citizen/resident idea is one I have never heard before, and is interesting.
“The biggest insult to the memory of the Holocaust is not denying it, but using it an excuse to justify the genocide of the Palestinian people.” - Norman Finkelstein
People need to realize. When they see us as different from them this mass murder could be directed at any of us some time in the future
Abortion, same gender marriage, porn, open borders, prayer out of school. Jewish publications brag that they have been the moving force for these changes in the US.
Thank you so much for the guest, but your mic was so loud.
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.
Karan google Yuval Moav an 18year old Israeli jew citizen, who has refused to join the army and Israel imprisons the ones who refuse.. and Yuval is ready to be imprisoned indefinitely as he will not be complicit in the genocide in Palestine
Karan I hope you learnt something today..and can educate the misinformed Indians who are supporting an apartheid state 🇮🇱👎🏻Indian mainstream media sucks
Free Palestine from Israel
The ground reality of the relationship between USA and Israel is actually, Israel is the brain of USA, because for each and every technology aspect, USA depends on Israel. The brain that actually tends to develop strategies and technology of USA is all because of Israel's brain, so that is the reason USA don't want Israel to diminish and eventually the people of Palestine have to pay consequences. And one more important thing, that USA also want its equipments, its technologies to get exported and make money using Israel and even Palestine.
@@mistanesebrow9662 According to an ex CIA operative the Iz have been stealing American technology for decades, they tweak it and sell it to the highest bidder including China and Russia. It looks like the tech industry in Iz is no more. Intel who were on the point of investing millions in Iz have now pulled the plug and shut down all their offices in Iz. So have AXA one of the biggest insurance/banks in the world. The workforce in Iz are now having to serve in the military, over 52,000 businesses have shut down, 2 million people have left the country, people are taking their money out of the country and investing elsewhere. Iz credit rating is now junk.
The Rules Based Disorder
Dude.. this was a great interview. But the audio was wanting. Your voice was way louder than the professor. They need to be the same volume. I was trying to listen in bed and kept having to turn you down.
Good job otherwise though! Thank you.
Having had many muslim friends, neighbours, classmates etc, cross my 67 year old path, I have come to realise that their silence in the atrocities of these last days, does not spell fear. THEIR silence, harbours a wicked glee, deceptive hearts, which we are compelled to respond to, with love, and forgiveness, like OUR SAVIOUR JESUS, THE CHRIST
HOW does the unbelieving world think, CHRISTIANS around the globe feel, witnessing one year of the DESTRUCTION BY ISLAM of ISRAEL and the THE HOLIEST part of ISRAEL, JUDEA AND SAMARIA.....AND the APARTHEID imposed on JEWS and CHRISTIANS by muslims, who won't allow visits to the temple mount and several holy and historic towns in this region.
YEAR after year millions of christians have visited this prescious land and looked forward to the day when one's turn would come to make that maybe once-in-a-lifetime pilgrimage.
The Jews have stewarded the land well and to the best of their ability, for so long, and have never denied entry, tourism or spiritual sojourns ANYWHERE in the holy land, though slowly but surely the destroyers have made it less and less accessible.
Judeo-Christians have NEVER desired to do anything, but respect the holy sites of Islam and though our hearts ache at the silence from muslim friends, relatives, neighbours , colleagues etc. across the world , about the unfairness of this blatant disregard of, and wilfull destruction of what others hold dear, we nevertheless know that TRUTH SHALL PREVAIL against darkness and THE BEST IS YET TO COME as
"""I will lift up my eyes to the hills [of Jerusalem]- From whence shall my help come,"" Psalm 121:1 for .......
""""And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh,""" Luke 21:28.
What rubbish you spout
I'm so sorry you didn't talk about the impact of zionism in all this tragedy.
I don't think the two state solution is possible because the young people is indoctrinated against the palestinians.
Where are the palestinians going to return if their homes are occupied by the indoctrinated israelli settlers?
I’m not the slightest impressed by Mr. Bartov. He’s now stating what was evident by the end of October '23. On the contrary, he acted as an enabler of gen-o-c.
Raz Segal was to the point from the get-go.
Palestinian are not only Muslim, they are people in faiths Christian and Muslim,. There are evidence solder systematically destruction place where human worship to their beliefs, Church and Mosque, including refugees camp,hospital and education facilities places. This war another Holocaust this century, which shall be reflects historical and histories book in education..... those people never forget the loss family members etc
Very far-sighted
Prof. Bartow, the apartheid state in Israel is already dating at least 3 decades, but more probably 6 decades!
Prof. Bartow, how could you frame in the hipotesis of confederation, that the illegal settlers remain on a land who was stolen to their legal owners? Should Palestinians not claim their rightful property?
Hello Team wire and karan Thapar can you invite Norman Finkelstein for a discussion in this topic
He is correct is still fo correction