just doesn’t make sense how a company can be so rich and see a game of theirs be so beloved by the public and still leave it to rot…have they no heart?
I might be on the hopium big-time, but I believe that Valve will eventually see the value in the game the way the community keeps supporting it, but until that happens, my hope remains with the community. - Jason
I mean, I can't imagine working on a project for 15+ years is fun for everyone involved. You can keep throwing people at the project who are willing and happy to work but it's incredibly hard to tell if the end product will be cohesive, good, and/or fun. And I'm certainly not some Valve insider who knows what's going on at the company, but TF2 was left in the dust like 10 years ago when most of Valve moved on to greater projects. It's just how it is. And that's not to say Valve is a big bad corporation, they have some very honest people over there with a lot of passion, just not a lot with a passion for working on a old project not quite in line with where the company is going.
If there was something that scratched the same itch as TF2 we'd have probably migrated there years ago, but there's not. The community is lucky to have Uncle Dane and his servers. TF2 ain't dead yet.
the valves "work on what you want" rule have been a false claim ever like 2016, you see senior devs give you credit when you work on their projects, but they can also reduce credits if you dont work on their projects, leading to losses in revenue or even getting fired from valve this is why tf2 is a literal breathing corpse, it's all senior devs who dont see any other project than theirs
Honestly that would be enough for me, though ideally I would like them to put more of a focus on community servers because it empowers the community to do more, but sadly I don't think server owners ever recoup those costs. - Jason
I immediately knew this was going to spotlight MYM as the TF2 killer. I've been saying "I miss pre-2016 TF2" for years now, but I gave up hope, sold my backpack, and moved on to other games. I bought the orange box when I was in high school, and I made a lot of memories and friends since then via TF2. I miss it, but I know it's not coming back.
I considered doing the same honestly as other friends of mine had, but I'm glad I didn't ultimately. If there's one thing I'd encourage you to try, it's TF2 Classic, no need for backpack as items are built in, and it really does feel like old TF2 again, even has the right lighting and models for it. - Jason
@RealmSpaceGaming To be honest, I never did try those TF mods and such to attempt and replicate those golden years. I did find a totally different replacement over time, though. Another goofy game with a similarly low skill floor and high skill ceiling. I ask that you don't cringe, but trust me when I say I'm having similar fun by playing Fortnite.
I have played the game for a long time and it's sad to say but this game is finally dead. The inventory servers going down was the final straw. It wasn't the bots that destroyed the game. It was Valve's unwillingness to take care of the game.
@robertcop9889 No judgement, whilst it's not my own preference I can certainly see the appeal in it 😊. Early days of PUBG were a similarly magical thing for me, to be honest I think I enjoyed PUBG almost as much as TF2 when it was new, but that has also since gone down too much of an e-sportsy route and is now a memeory. - Jason
Your loss buddy, the community is still pretty much active and well. Literally new memes are _still_ being made every day. I have a blast whenever I play nowadays. Something something I don't care about updates and don't hold a game in high regard just because it's CONSTANTLY being updated like Valorant and Fortnite.
Played since March 2008. Not exactly day 1, but I've also been around to experience all the different eras of TF2. Seeing the game's current state is nothing short of depressing.
wow. the legendary Unseen Unit. i recognized you for your good takes on the tf2 discussion bored. I wish more people would admit that MYM was a mistake. and the fact that Valve doubled down with jungle inferno is just sad. If they brought quickplay back. tf2 could have avoided the bot crisis and maybe would been in a better place (even if we will not get updates. tf2 would have stayed fun forever)
Meet your match is the update where I and everyone else stopped playing tf2, because they totally ruined matchmaking times, I remember the day it released like it was yesterday, all the conversations I had with my friends about how we don't like it are a core memory for me.
Same here. I still keep in touch with the friends I made on our main TF2 server back then. We got a Discord channel now where we post about life updates, memes, or even get together on other new games like Lethal Company.
Same, I remember I was so hyped, because one of my long time tf2 friends came back to the game to play it with me again after the update and we were so fucking dissapointed... That was the last time I played with him... He died a year ago and after that I just can't play the game anymore, because everytime I boot up the game, my memories of us playing together are flashing back and I get too emotional to play. Shit sucks man..
For me I was so-hopelessly dedicated to TF2 back then, thinking Valve could do no wrong, that I didn't reach that moment until Jungle Inferno. It was then I realised Valve didn't really care for what TF2 was, and would eventually become. I am still at a complete loss to why they made the balance changes they did, why they didn't revert any of the poor decisions from their previous garbage update MyM. I was in a state of total shock, and left for 2 - 3 years after. I came back in 2020 and have just stopped playing again, probably for another few years. Seeing Valve's abandonment towards this childhood game of mine that I'd picked up in 2008 that still kicks at every chance it gets is heartbreaking.
Quick Play was the blessing that no one realized how good it was until we lost it. Competitive gaming is plague on gaming. #AddQuickPlayBack #RevertTF2toPreMYM
U didn't mention it. Now u can queue for another match while playing your current match. It was updated years ago. Yes u can search for competitive, mvm and casual at the same time.
I am glad that Valve still cared enough to keep improving their search modes, but it's a real shame they didn't have those at launch. I just wish they'd bring back quick play 😕 - Jason
Ive been playing since 2012. Ive had a relatively hard life and tf2 was a huge part of my life. It helped me get through my deepest depression episodes. I love this game, and i will still play the game even if it is just me left with the stupid bots of the training system. The way i feel about this situation is that all i see is pathetic life forms beating up a veteran just to say they have done something in life and the veteran looks towards valve begging for them to do something and vavle just turns around and walks away like Dutch does to Arthur. Valve needs to get the dildo out of their ass and actually do something because, from what i seen, they have gotten fat and happy with a ton of money that aint going anywhere. #savetf2 #plzvalve
Very well written. TF2 was a massive part of my life in my teenage and later years. I was in South Africa at the time so we only had a few viable servers I could join but I made a lot of friends on those servers. Hopping on whenever I did it was like playing with a full LAN server of your friends, you knew everyone and they knew you, and you all knew who liked to play what classes... Magical times those! 😁 TF2 has been out of my life for the last few years on account of things getting busy but once I came back and played enough to make this video, I feel like I've been hooked again. The Uncletopia severs are close enough to what I miss from the good old days. I relate to how you feel about this game, it was made with love and personality and I have faith that even if Valve doesn't step up to keep it going, the community will. - Jason
@RealmSpaceGaming magical times indeed, and I agree that tf2 will live on without valve with the community. You did an amazing job on the video, and honestly, if you'll have me, I'd love to play on some uncletopia servers. I main medic, us tf2 players need to stick together. We'll get through this we do not have permission to die. Bear.
I'd be HAPPY to! 😁 Keep an eye out on those servers for a Hadeda King, I main pyro but I play a bit of everything. Thank you for your kind words ❤️. Community together, strong! 💪 - Jason
Valve doesn’t have to try anymore. They are a platform developer their not a game developer anymore anyone who speaks to the contrary ignores the fact that valves income calls from the royalties made off being the biggest land lord of pc gaming. Why make something new when you can just make money from rent. Tf2 is functionally alive because if the servers got shut down the idiots who dropped 6k on hats would slap valve with a lawsuit.
True that 😎I love making dic pics from the sticky bombs 😅and I love the minor glitches like the A pose and stuff like that 😅 and breaking the map glitches it’s funny 😅
From my perspective as a TF player since beta and a (retired) LAN-attending competitive player, you absolutely nailed this documentary, Jason. This is a very informed and fair-minded assessment of the development of the game from the viewpoint of different types of player, something not at all easy to achieve. I can't shake the feeling that there is more yet to come in the story of Team Fortress. Thank you for making this.
I started playing in 2020 mid bot crisis and jesus I love how casual and silly tf2 can be but it’s so hard to come across a good server. Uncletopia is great but it’s hard to pick up new classes because everyone there seems so good at the game already
I don't consider myself to be too good at the game, but then I do typically main Pyro which isn't the highest skill ceiling class unless one is doing all the stunts that I can't do 😅. I 100% get what you mean though, cause learning other classes is difficult! I've been trying to improve as Sniper but my aim is trash 😬. I really do miss my local community servers, filled with all the local scrubs. Miss those days. A lot of my TF2 friends are all still in South Africa and I can't really play with them from the UK. - Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming Ay I’m glad someone gets me lol, I’ve been maining medic and a bit of scout but queueing with friends all over (we all have bad sleep schedules) is a nightmare for ping, if it’s not bots it’s getting kicked for latency :’)
@smugdodofart27 the struggle is real 😔 Amazing we've come so far an still can't eliminate crazy ping in online games. Maybe someday, but alas for now places without decent community servers are out of luck. - Jason
Player since 2012 here. I feel there was one major issue you missed here. The "Golden Years" dont just apply to 2007-2009. They went on until the mid 2010s, big issue here is the community itself. When I joined all those years ago servers were plentiful, and you could have oodles of silly goofy fun. It inspired me to spend money on the game even, now I run the official Gpan group on steam and have one of the biggest BPs in the game. I worked on servers for years, and had plenty of fun. I even tried opening up my own set of servers and community. However this stopped in the late 2010s. Shortly before Covid hit in 2020 I noticed a massive increase in toxics. Not just botters but also closet cheaters and more. Hell. I tried to thank this game for giving me so many good memories that I opened up a small channel of my own, I got into voice acting and decided to make satirical acting bits my forte and schtick for my channel. This worked for about 5/20 games. The majority got me insulted for how I sounded, mocked, ridiculed, and more. Then I ran into the biggest Pedo in the game. No not Nursey, no not Mechawreck, but Venusian Rapper. This woman beating, CP loving pedo scumbag recorded two videos on me out of context and uploaded them to the net. I got hounded for months, I still a YEAR LATER get harassed by his gross little toadies in games from time to time. This was after the Vorobey video outing him as the most disgusting nutcase in the game. In the Golden Years I was NEVER subjected to this much toxicity from the community. In the old days this game was dominated by bronies, furries, and weebs. Now its a bunch of 4chan and Reddit toxics that flock here in droves. The game is indeed dead, the core community that once made up the majority moved on to other titles, and while some of the people like us remember the good ol days and try to keep them alive, we are now the minority. Our game isnt just dead, it was absconded with. I will continue to do what I can to keep the games spirit alive, and have hope for it, but unless a reckoning is done to give the true community the reigns again, I fear for this games future.
For me, my main golden years playing TF2 were from 2010 - 2014, and I experienced TF2 since 2008. The early years were still very fun, and the community of the game used to be so laid back and cozy you could honestly just have a blast dying over and over again with funny voicechat in the background. The main draw of 2010 - 2014 for me though was taking that initial community and watching it grow over the years with a plethora of updates to always keep you guessing. I'm very nostalgic over all the old surf community servers and halloween maps to this day. 2015 onwards was where the game started getting taken too seriously, then followed MyM (quite-possibly Valve's worst TF2 update) which spat in the face of TF2's original playerbase to appease a small minority, and it STILL ended up flopping for that minority community regardless, and then Jungle Inferno which rubbed salt into the wounds of said playerbase.
the bots also for a time were able to change their profile pics and name to players on a team they were joining. Another thing that used to not exist was their shitty melee script rendering fists of steel heavy not meta at taking them out (i mean you can still kinda cheese it by baiting them into melee range then swapping to a shotgun) inside the turd of mym were nuggets of.. well not gold so i guess tin or iron? teleporters going from 125 metal to build to 50 as well as the faster build rate during setup time (which was already in mannpower prior i think) as well as the comics and imo the aethstetic of mym was pretty good.
People often dont understand about bot and cheater crisis Is that these arent just randoms and we should take a look at it from valve's perspective These are coders who knows how to exploit anti cheats The internet is a place that has information to exploit and cheat in almost any game Websites, youtubers, coding tutorials, ip changing and so much more Its an unending loop of developing anti cheats someone discovering cracks and the bot makers exploiting it and even if you try to sue them New groups take their places
It is one of the great puzzles of our time, and given the two generals problem, I doubt there's any way to fix it for good 😕 but I do wish Valve would do a bit more maintenance even if there's no permanent solution. They must still be making money from TF2, if for no other reason than the game's marketplace transactions. - Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming to me, the best changes they can do about it is making real players able to kick and ban bots easier and patching bugs and glitches related to it and also other mechanics Thats up to the developers but due to valve's work culture which lets devs work on anything anytime, theinterest they have over tf2 against other big projects decline more and more The best way to minimize bots in lobbies is making valve promoting the community servers (mostly uncletopia)
@@RealmSpaceGaming agreed but valve is a "small company" around 350 people as for right now tf2 is on the low end of priority list with the steam deck and CS2 and rumor new game at the top. In the past year Dota 2 has taken back seat to maintain mode. Saying this I believe there is hope in the future, once they debut their CS2 anti-cheat I hope they integrate into TF2 at the same time put TF2 at the top priority after they r done with CS2 plus all the new recruits that has been training on developing on CS2 will work on TF2.
Well I have learned their is a way to beat the bots at their own game 😐one person can’t go on alone you need a full Uber pyro and a medic I tried this and won 😎
The main issue is that at first, Valve was passionate about the game. Then, it slowly devolved into what is basically just a promotional tool for new releases on Steam to fuel pre-order sales with promotional items. I mean for crying out loud, about 25-50% of weapons and at least 10% of cosmetics are promotional items from different games. The Widowmaker, one of most widely beloved weapons in the game, as well as the Machina, are both nearly direct copies of the weapons from Deus Ex. Since Valve makes more than enough money to not have to focus on developing their games anymore, and because TF2 was already just a tool to promote new releases, there is no point in putting much work into the game anymore.
I wish there were more cosmetic tie-ins than functional ones, my favourite one is still the Lumbricus Lid for the Holy Hand Grenades, felt like it was a nice bit of Worms flavour. But that's the thing, considering TF2 works nicely as a promotional tool, shouldn't that be more incentive for them to maintain it? - Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming theoretically speaking: Yes. In reality, Valve makes such a fortune just running Steam and getting their cut whenever someone buys a game that they have no real reason to put any effort into anything they do. Valve has made it clear that they're trying to become a hardware company with things like Steam VR, the Steam Deck etc. Counter Strike 2 was probably an exception because it's been in the works for years and scrapping it wouldn't have been worth it.
Meet Your Match opened Pandoras box, and just like a stubborn spoiled child, Valve kept pushing and breaking without reverting anything back or acknowledging that Meet Your Match was crap. I really miss many maps that were hosted on servers, like Conne maps, and many newer players will never get to experience such maps, like koth_wubwubwub.
I wish I could say I was one of them, but I have at least one good hat on my Pyro 🤣. The backlash would be too large if they ever shut it down completely considering the item economy is so massive. They make a lot of money off of market trades on these items alone. - Jason
Been around since 2012, miss keys being 2.33 ref and the crafting system actually having value lol. Definitely miss pre meet your match, I played for some months then stopped, not picking it back up until jungle inferno released. All that truly matters is our memories. What made the game and that time period in each of our lives memorable in the first place. No one can take that from you.
Amen to that! Those days will always be special in my memory! 😁 I probably opened a few too many crates in hope of getting an unusual! 🤣 To this day, the only one I have ever gotten was gifted to me by a friend, and that made it all the more special. Those days coming home from school, hopping online, playing a few rounds with the regulars... I'll never forget 'em. - Jason
If anybody should ask me "What is wrong with TF2", this vid probably sums it up better and in a shorter time span than the other ones around. The only thing missing is how with MYM and afterward the item/weapon balancement was completely destroyed as well, maybe not a in-depth explaination but even a mention would been nice.
Thank you 😁! I thought about putting in the item balance stuff, but I realised I didn't know enough about the changes there to make a proper comment. I do remember the days when the backburner had extra damage just for existing and no airblast, but that was a loooong time prior to MYM I think. You're right though, I should've mentioned it, ty for the feedback :) - Jason
I didn't start playing tf2 until 2019, and it genuinely feels like every single game I come to goes to shit as soon as my presence is established. That being said it truly sucks that Valve can't be damned to care about it, they're a billion dollar company yet they can't afford to hire people to actually work on Team Fortress 2 or any game for that matter. I've almost lost hope, but I'm still going to cling on to the hope Valve will suddenly change their minds, even if that likely won't happen
That's why our hope lies in the community I think, projects like Team Fortress Classic might be able to provide what we're after in the long term by building on a solid foundation. For now at least we have the Uncletopia servers, but if the community servers disappear, TF2 will with it. - Jason
I always wanted to post tf2 content but pivoting too it when how well established some creators are already are in the space (zesty, dane, maxo etc) would be impossible to make content to that level. I want to put my 2.5K hours to use 😅
I wasn't really a big viewer of TF2 UA-cam until I made this video, and I didn't watch too much in researching this topic either, but in the days since this video went live I've watched loads of SoundSmith (absolutely love his production quality), Elmaxo, Uncle Dane, and Great Blue among others, and I'm completely blown away that my little video is popping off in a scene where all of their videos exist! 🤯 Popping off relative to our channel size at least. But I'd encourage you to go for it! Despite having played for a long time (tho only 700 hours on my main Steam acc), I still consider myself a casual because I've always played like one. My goal was never to be GREAT at TF2, it was just to screw around and have fun. As a result, I became decent at it, maybe even good on some classes, but I'm definitely not UA-camr good! 😅 Ultimately it was the community that kept this game alive, and to do that it needs even more creators covering the space in my opinion. Definitely go for it 😉! - Jason
I think the bots in casual aren't actually by Valve themselves, because TF2 Valve bots make the movements, sometimes hit body shots, and switch to melee and secondary when you're close, and you CAN get close, whereas TF2 PLAYER bots have the aimbot, the sighting hack and all in between, a significant different in my opinion
its crazy how so many devlpers jumped on "matchmaking" system hype when there is literally 0 game with good matchmaking system, the problem is that there are so many factors in what makes a good player "good" that any system trying to detect and filter one out would be wrong 90% of a time, in all these game you find the exact same problem, good players being pitted against bad ones, its funny how tf2 servers were more balanced without matchmaking than with it.
I don’t understand why valve abandoned TF2 when there’s still a huge player base. There’s definitely still plenty of money to be made for them from TF2
Casual is effectively dead for me, almost always bots, mvm is all I hav now, when saver tf2 happened I saw less bots, but then bots just started becoming a bigger issue again
Amen to that, I really wish they would at least bring back quick play as an option to revive more community servers. Do miss me some MvM though, haven't played that in years. How far can one get in MvM with a casual fun loadout? - Jason
I just feel like this game isn't the same as the other early Source multiplayer games now, since they pushed a lot of limits to it. Matchmaking, in-app purchases, you get the rest. I know that the devs said that it would be an ongoing project, but at this point the game had a lot of content updates that made the game a disk-space killer, and now I even see how SteamPipe happened. I really wished I had played the game in its early days, and I would've accepted the addition of a few modes like KOTH and Payload and PASS Time. I did downlod a custom menu that brought "back" the classic menu, but it still felt ruined because of the new menu code and that big bar at the top of the screen. Nowadays I just try to pretend that they never added cosmetics and the shop, but even then, I still see people using their hats and weapons even after the item servers went back up. And whenever I across those, I just say in my mind that those things do not exist, much like Saxton Hale. Speaking of, I even wondered why they decided to add lore to this game. The game truly cannot be the game it was in the old days.
I remember quickplay, and god was it fun. Who on earth in valve decided: "Hey. Let's ruin a perfectly well functionable casual experience and ignore the game for years the come!" >2014 sad feels
It is sad isn't it? 😔 I really have hope, not that Valve will do something, but that the community will keep it alive long enough for Valve to care again. Either that, or TF2 Classic. - Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming I actually dislike TF2 Classic. The era they emulate is the baby steps beginner years, which means it's repetitive gameplay on repetitive maps as there's 0 unlockable items you can actually use (other than one meaningless side grade of stock) unless you join a broken custom weapon server that won't let you in and crash. Open Fortress should get all the attention, as it's an excellent Source recreation of those old-timey arena deathmatxh games like Quake or Half Life Deathmatch. When Half Life's anniversary happened and people flocked back to Half Life 1's servers I genuinely had the most fun in a vjdeogame since forever, not even TF2 can compare anymore
Watch the video "TF2: Nobody's Home" By ZestyJesus. He explains exaclty what the spike in playerbase is. To keep it short NONE of it was actually human players trying to game out and playing it bc of the new update. It's idle farming bots that farm over 2 million cases. roughly 2 thirds of tf2 actively reported playercount is botted and none of the events actually saw an iflux of players returning/new players. All. Just. Bots.
I started the game a week ago i used to hate on it for no reason and I started it and i loved it i dont understand how good the golden years where but the game is still so good
Ah yes, I forgot that I had to enable that, thanks for the reminder 😊. Even then, quick play seemed to function so much better than all the added restrictions of casual, it at least didn't feel too different from the community servers. Casual matchmaking on the other hand seems clinical. It's all over so fast. - Jason
I like community servers. the problem is I am a simple man. Most servers that I try to join have no respawn or have some sort of rule changes. I just want the casual gameplay which can be hard to find on the community servers, especially for newer players. The vanilla servers do exist, but they are always full and tend to have a higher skill gap, again new players. If the focus was shifted back to community servers then I can see those types of vanilla servers will become more common and popular and with the attention that the new #fixtf2 movement has it shows that there are people willing to play the game still if something was done about its current state.
I find it fascinating to hear people originally hating on matchmaking, then going from that to people loving and preferring it over community servers currently; they want the bots gone from them and aren't satisfied with what the community has to offer.
Can we please show some appreciation for the user name "KISS a girl already"? For anyone doubting the tag, they legit censored the word 'kiss' just to make people double take and rip on them when they assumed it was suppose to be vulgar. (I'll admit there could have been more than one person using a similar name at the time, but the one I ran into would not answer to anything other than "kiss".
I think specifically when you consider the success of Valve's other E-Sports games, TF2 definitely lacked a lot of the attention from both Valve and thus the E-Sports communities, it just didn't have the same competitive energy as Dota and CS.
100% agree, but that's what I personally like about TF2. I'm only good at these sort of competitive games when playing LAN against my friends. My all time favourite for this was Unreal Tournament 3, a good combination of arcadey fun with those old quake-like competitive elements mixed in. Even if I had the time to learn how to quickscope and play with super low sensitivity, I wouldn't want to, I don't want my fun relaxation time to feel like another job 😔. TF2 has always had this silly, fun, casual atmosphere to it, and I'd venture to say most players play it that way, even on Uncle Dane's servers. I know there are comp players, but Valve trying to jam their mode into the game for everyone... it just didn't work. - Jason
I quit because of the community and the direction the game went. I hate the community, i hate these dudes that think they’re femboys, the immaturity, mic spamming, the cheaters and hackers, the community weapons the lack of teammates. If it does, it will be good for the game because the crappy people will moveon to other games. It will make me think the game can become an enjoyable game because normal people will be all that’s left. Content creators still play TF2. TF2 needs a good cleanse. It really does.
your game review was spot on, I stopped playing shortly after the mvm update I had been playing since my high school years which was my golden era used to be on an LA server called the lions den but admins hardly ever played and had a zero tolerance policy where they also seemed to play favorites via admission to a clan alot of the regulars ended up getting banned and very rarely did anyone get unbanned I'm glad I stopped before the time of widespread bots and I definitely had some mixed feelings about going free to play, but then again I was also interested in competitive team play, which I also thought was kinda fun.
Thank you for the kind words! ❤️ Community servers were quite something back then weren't they? I'll admit, once comp matchmaking was working, I did enjoy that for a brief while. I considered mentioning FaceIt in this video, but that died so quickly I didn't think it was worth overcomplicating things. Though I enjoyed the bit of organised play I did, I still yearned for that more casual side of the game. - Jason
I started in 2012 but didn’t really play much until 2022. I feel like i was able to see a glimpse of the golden era through some community servers and other moments. The “cease fire” moments happened a lot and were always a ton of fun. I was always the T-posing heavy, screaming help me over and over.
You truly have seen the golden age 😁! Perhaps we might see it again if Team Fortress 2 Classic becomes more popular, but it needs a lot more attention and more servers in different regions first I think. - Jason
I'm a regular on a 2fort server, I've made plenty of friends on there. One of which is a new player that I show them the ropes to. I greet the other regulars if I notice them (usually when they kill me), and I mostly remember their playstyles. I started playing pretty much right after jungle inferno, but I was a fan even before then ( I never had a computer back in the day). Tf2 supported me throughout high school, now it's going to do the same in college, too. I don't want the game to continue to go in the direction it is.
@@RealmSpaceGamingI'll be real with you, I've started playing in summer 2020, so the bot crisis was pretty much my first impression of the game. I thought it was something new and due to my love for this wacky game, I supported it as much as I could. Learning how long Valve has abandoned this game made me realise it might not be worth it anymore. I hope to design a class-based multiplayer shooter in the future, so on the bright side, I'm learning from Valve's mistakes to make sure my company thrives, but is also fair to its consumers. Great video, thanks for informing me!
Amen to that, was something really special at the time. I still remember the first hat that someone found in our local server once those came in, we all gathered around to see it on their head 🤣. - Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming anyone who played after the inferno update would be like attending a someone’s house party that you keep hearing was the best party of the year (golden age of tf2) only to find it was over hours ago with a bunch of passed out people, trash everywhere, leftover cupcakes, and a half eaten pizza and you had to make the best of that. That’s TF2 in the current day.
Been playing since 2012, and honestly i hold TF2 close to my heart as it was a big game apart of my childhood. That being said it really hurts to see how far the game has fallen throughout the years, but admirable how the community refuses to let it die. However I haven't played or enjoyed the game in roughly over a year now and have gotten a bit sick of the community when though my eyes most TF2 players are still stuck in the Overwatch vs TF2 mindset and feels like because Valve obviously does not care for TF2 a lot of people will do anything they can to constantly compare the games and talk crap about it. I also feel like casual is still just unplayable and being in Australia the only days with community servers are full are on the weekends. I still love TF2 and I won't sell my inventory because i also hold my cosmetics dear to me, in case i ever decide to return willingly and really enjoy it again.
It is a pretty amazing game isn't it? 😄 I do miss the days where more games took after it, even Overwatch 1 had golden years following it. The focus on the pro-scene alone has not done wonders for games imo, there needn't always be a crossover. - Jason
Overwatch consulted a large number of "pro" TF2 teams during development of their game and comp system. They launched at a time that esports was on the up with a ready made comp scene featuring movement that perfectly emulated TF2.
I remember a while ago where they actually implemented something that prevented bots from copying real players' data and Steam ID, which was something... and that makes me think that they are absolutely unable to solve this problem :/
sadly iv kinda quit tf2, after dealing with the bots for 3 to 4 years im sick and tired of it, Edit: i do come back to play for a bit when seasonal updates come tho :)
Tbh, Valve can’t revert it back to Quickplay now because if they do, bots will ruin the core of TF2 “The Community Servers” I think, what we should do RN. Is encorage newer players to play Community Servers for maximum TF2 experience or spam Valve to improve Anti Cheat systems. Add more people to work on TF2. Community literally wants to fix TF2 and they will do it for free, Valve. All you need is allows Community a second chance to improve the game.
Imagine if they did that, it would literally be no extra work on their part. I really hope Valve realises how willing the community is to fix this game through the existence of projects like TF2 Classic. I can't say I know what all the logistics would involve, but certainly it couldn't get worse than it is now 😔. - Jason
I've been playing TF2 since almost its beginning. I started back in the summer of 2008 and have pretty much almost experienced everything the game went through. I still come back to play it from time to time, but with all the unbalanced weapons and bot infestations its at times unplayable. Honestly, there have been times I've just played with expert bots instead of casual servers because of that.
"Why is TF2 dying?" Counter Strike. Valve sees money and the counter strike community hands them hundreds if not hundreds of thousands every time a crate drops. TF2 has a large trading scene yes but not to the same extent. In the end its all about the benjamins and CSGO and CS2 will print valve way more money than TF2 at this age
I remember the bots using *#SaveTF2* in their names. That's bold; these guys are shameless. That was clearly an attack against the community, and you can't convince me otherwise. My question is why?
In a way the meet your match update was proof that a lot of TF2 UA-camrs had no idea what the hell they were talking about and valve should have ignored the vast majority of them. A lot of the changes implemented in the game were mostly suggestions from prominent UA-cam figures at the time and it has unironically let us to where we are now
Not the first or last game to make that mistake sadly 😕. When will devs learn that UA-camrs with 5000% more game time than the average player will want something different to what the average player wants? - Jason
i don't really blame valve as the source engine isn't anywhere near the best and most stable thing to work with (which *might* be partly why valve ported CSGO over to source 2)
Honestly when This game dies I think that people would still get itch to play it time to time you know,I mean it's been years since this game released and you still can have real fun playing it.
Not a bad summary but I think you're undervaluing the impact of the lead developer leaving TF2 after only 23 years in the role, in 2009. Couple that with Valve's not widely publicised "work anywhere you want so long as it's not TF2" policy and the "ooo shiny" appeal of anything that isn't decades old code. If anything it's a wonder why they didn't abandon the game completely earlier. If it wasn't for Mannconomy being the canary in CS2/DOTA's economy they would have turned the servers off in 2012! There's a fascinating story to be told here but as I said, this is a pleasant start.
I didn't know about that 😱 Suddenly a lot of things make sense now, and I think you're right about that spaghetti code, I really hope it's not totally unfixable at this point. - Jason
I’ve have played many games but tf2 will always have, soft spot in my heart. One of the first pc game I ever play and I enjoy every single second of it ❤❤❤.
If we want updates back to gotta do #Savetf2 part 3, and our protesting needs to come from anger, not appreciation. We're not succeeding because we're being too nice. We need to show Valve how Angy we are.
Anger? Nah, we need to be LIVID!! LIKE, THE GAME HAS BEEN ABANDONED FOR OVER 8 YEARS NOW!! IF THEY WANT TO KEEP IGNORING IT, GIBE IT TO THE COMMUNITY OF JUST SHUT IT OFF!!
@@umrayquazashinyapareceu1672 Riot and Anarchy level livid 😤? Cause believe me Some fans are willing to reennact meet the pyro on Valve HQ in Bellevue.
I think the best incentive for them would be financial. The wiki reports that the in-game item economy was valued at $50 million back in 2011 and I imagine that must have gone up since, and that's not to mention the 3rd party market for rare unusuals or warpaints. Valve makes money every time an item is bought or sold on the community market too. If they pulled some monster of an update and threw the game on the front of the store page for a while as well as fixing a few issues, that alone would draw in a ton of new players and a lot of new money for Valve. I mean, I don't think they need it, but business decisions motivated by finance is usually a pretty smart way to go. - Jason
My hot take and theory, the bots are player added, meaning that Valve has to mess with the code for joining servers, meaning they could ruin queue times even more than it already is, I do hope they make a more advanced vote kick scenario and steam overall strengthens their "create account" situation so people don't just add bot profiles not just TF2, but also for other multiplayer/cross platform games
Most of this information is just a reworded version of Lister's video. A lot of the information is also not detailed enough and had no research put into it. The bots don't join community servers because the community servers have improved anti-cheat plugins.
I haven't seen Lister's video, but if we came to similar conclusions then I'm glad I'm not alone in these thoughts at least 😅. Thanks for sharing the bit about the anti-bot plugins, I didn't know that was the reason 🤔! But why doesn't Valve implement the same plugins? Surely their servers could take them too? Or do they just not want to😔? - Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming Jason I think we both know that valve is run by a plant and Gaben's dog and the plant is in charge of the nothingness happening to tf2.
It’s plain and simple. Valve isn’t in the game development business anymore. When they developed Steam and allowed independent developers to list their games on there it became very lucrative for them. Why make them when others can do that for you and reap 30% of the revenue? Very smart on their part. Gabe will only allow the development of games through Valve if it shows extreme promise which is why they haven’t released many titles in the past few years. I commend them on that. They aren’t trying to suck us dry of our money with some half baked bullshit like most AAA companies out there. Valve is legit the industry leader.
17 years old, ridden with bots, years of time with no content whatsoever, still ranks stupidly high in how many people play it. Testament to quality and thought the creators have put in, too bad they have moved on completely it seems.
I just returned to tf2 a few days ago, and it's still fun as hell with all the chaos. The only two problems are ofcourse the bots and the fact that I can't use the chat, I can't even call for a medic.
I think what enabled the bots was that the modern hardware could easily run the game and multiple bot instances. Around, before/after MYM there was a short Catbot wave that was essentially same as what has been the norm since MYM. Catbots weren't using any AI learning but by my own observation, neither do the bots of today. After the initial waves the bots barely use any learning algorithms anymore. I speculate that the bot hosters just realized that ruining game really didn't need the latest GPU at 100% utilization. The functions bots do: spam chat/mic, headshot and move... simple scripting. All existed before the leak. If they know what map they are in, it shouldn't be difficult to use separate program to WASD them around. It was the player decrease after MYM that did the most damage as bots are mostly a problem only when the player count is low.
@@WinXP_SP1Just saying, the player count is misleading as bot accounts are counted in. In other games the player count drops during the night as players go to sleep. This looks like waves in the player count graph. Look CS2 for example: the player count regularly halves for the night. TF2 the dip is 5000 people regularly, 10% of total. TF2 players apparently never sleep... cause large chunk of them are bots. If CS2 drops 50% periodically and TF2 10% then it could even be that 40% of the players are bots. Wouldn't call it dead either as there are tens of thousands of dormant players just waiting for an update to play like the last summer. It's just buried alive.
My guy, keeping up with the cheaters and bots is a very difficult task to do. Every time Valve thinks of a solution the cheaters/bot hosters are 1 step ahead. Think about this from Valve's prespective, they're dealing with no life losers who know how to code this stuff and are trying to combat them.
You're right, and I do try to sympathise with them, but I wonder why the bots don't join community servers or why they don't show up in Counter Strike. Is it really just all due to the source code leak? - Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming The reason why is that community servers actually have coded more resources to combat the issue via server plugins and it most likely is due to the Source leak. Remember, pretty much TF2's entire code was leaked out to everybody meaning that cheaters/bot hosters have an easier time getting around Valve's anticheat because they can look into the code and figure out ways behind it. Valve did push out updates to make combating the bots easier, and while it helps they're still trying to find out what makes them tick. Not to mention that the bot hosters are using VPNs, meaning it's hard to get a current lock on who is hosting them and just smack them with a lawsuit.
dude, at this point I play boot camp or community, I dead can't get a server that isnt full of bots and not being kicked, I just want valve to show they care
the funny thing about tf2 classic (or a project similar to it, my memory is a bit fuzzy) is that at one point valve asked them to shut their download, and tf2 classic did, hoping that it would mean change for actual TF2, but nothing happened, so they put the download back up lmao
Even if vale NEVER properly updates tf2 ever again 😐you would be surprised the amount of times you would start to love the lack of updates 🙂as I started playing tf2 in 2017 🙂and while I understand the cosmetics on steam I was stuck on the casual on the orange box for years 😐until in the 2020s I finally got a steam account and I really liked it 😎so while I understand that value may never properly update tf2 ever again 😐im happy with the casual version I have 🙂as once you realize once you have what you have 😐you may appreciate the game itself 🙂as for the bots their not impossible to beat 😐all you need is a medic and full Uber pyro I tried it and it worked out 😎
The bots can be killed, but their mere presence limits any kind of traditional TF2 fun. One would have a better time just playing singleplayer against Valve's bots rather than these hacker bots. Thankfully we don't have to do that as long as community servers exist, but I shudder to think of what'll happen if they ever disappear D: - Jason
Don't forget how Valve blamed/got angry at the fans for getting outraged about their F#ck ups over the years on top of Valve getting caught lying about working on some of the problems i.e matchmaking when released, original bot problem etc which contributed to Valves reluctance to fix TF2 even just outsourcing the problem even if they didn't want to do it themselves due to Valve being angry with the fans. Some of the anger Valve had with the community could be understandable as in the past there was several hacks done/data mining but it wasn't really ever TF2 centric more Valve being 'attacked' as a whole, the only time it really was directly related to TF2 was when an outside contractor that was assisting on several projects one of which was TF2 shared documents and such with the community on Valve communications on those projects plus some prototypes of game ideas (this was during the period of time when Valve employees could do whatever they wanted that you mentioned near the end @Realm Space Gaming but they haven't done so for around the past 5 years and Half Life Alyx was mainly worked on for two reasons 1 was to experiment with VR but also because Valve hired a business executive to help with productivity due to how many projects were being scrapped each week). The problem with Valves anger with the community was that all these 'leaks' were mainly caused by Valves lack of communication and the fans wanting to know what was going on but Fans for the most part figured out that Valve was lying about fixing things through what Valve itself released to the public. I REALLY don't get why Valve doesn't outsource the problem of fixing/updating TF2 to source 2 if they don't want to do it themselves, the developers of the fan project of TF2 Source 2 were even willing to do it For them even if it meant having to restart from the beginning after the issues with the cease and desist plus using S&Box (garrys mod 2) source program. P.S If someone could explain to me why couldn't the TF2 Source 2 developers of just made it a prerequisite of owning team fortress 2 and having it installed so that you can use the assets from the original game to play their version, why couldn't they do that or something similar to deal with the cease and desist?
The tf2 source 2 devs won't fix shit because they mostly ported assets from tf2 into s&box and got burnt out on all the glitches that process caused, making the whole mod abandoned and broken, much like TF2
For me it died when they make the update with the level rank and those „medals” mostly cuz player like ,e who has many hours and has some experience is now putting in “level 1” player
Yup, I went through that. I already had 6k hours into the game when the level system was introduced and we all started at level 1 again. The great tragedy is that many of the bots have been getting away with it for so long that they can often appear to be much more mature, tier 2 Lvl 40+, players by now.
Yea, I was surprised they didn't at least give some levels based on achievements, time played, class stats, or... anything really. It felt like such a half baked update. 😔 - Jason
Amen to that! Maybe this is a controversial opinion but I don't see why we need to sunset games like we used to, not when people care about them this much. - Jason
I went from TF2 to L4D2 LoL to Overwatch 1 to Deep Rock Galactic. (For co-operative PvP Gaming) I still have TF2 but i haven't been on it since 2018. I still remember my favorite Character Builds & Game Modes but all of the friends I had on TF2 are long gone. Half of the reason I played TF2 was for the group of Friends I played with & the other Half was the goofing-around you highlighted. I know I can make new friends & the Community is just as silly as ever but I'm +10 years older & have limited time for Gaming on days I have any time at all! Fallout 4 Modded has become my 'Sand Garden' Game where i just zone-out by myself until I have to go do something productive. Great video! Subbed for more Content! ...Any chance you'd want to look into the game Deep Rock Galactic?
Many thanks, truly appreciate the kind words and I 100% relate to your situation! TF2 was also like that for me, 50% goof about, 50% chilling with friends, but sadly as we all got older, life got busy, we all had less time to play games and what time they had they didn't spend on TF2. Now the distance makes it next to impossible, can't really play on South African servers from the UK and vice versa. When I do get to play with my old online group now, it's stuff like Minecraft, Warframe, Barotrauma, Gunfire Reborn, Deep Rock Galactic, and more recently Pal World and Helldivers. If you enjoy Deep Rock, I highly recommend Helldivers, it's a really good time and similar vibes where the combat is concerned, though Deep Rock does have that more class based gameplay approach and there's just something epic about being dwarves! 😁 It may well be a game I look further into covering though, do you have any suggestions for a topic? 👀 - Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming I've heard good things about Helldivers but I haven't really explored it yet! What little extra time I don't spend on DRG & Fallout 4 Modded, I enjoy playing Hunt: Showdown. DRG is fast-paced & a real challenge on Hazard 5 Elite Deep Dives. When you start the game, you enjoy exploring the different Biomes & Missions. Then, you learn about the existence of Overclocks for your favorite Weapons that you've been already using & you see the different playing-styles you can invest into. I'll admit, if you don't enjoy the Missions & Combat, you';; quickly lose interest in it but the game is Cheap, Handles DLC Appropriately (NOT GREEDY & SINFUL) & is constantly being worked & improved on. For a AA Dev Team, it's a work of Art! Hunt is interesting because while many will be attracted to 'being a cowboy-witcher who hunts monsters & the undead', you soon realize that the NPCs are just there for you to fight over while the REAL danger is the other Hunters who will blow your brains out for your Bounty or just your boots or JUST BECAUSE! I love having to chase down some Hunter who thinks they're going to get away with the Bounty & having a 'last stand gunfight' at the extraction Locations. I love EVEN MORE when I take the Bounty myself & become the Target of every bloodthirsty sunavah gun with True Grit enough to try & stop me. I find my Ambush Location, set my traps & get my 'Werewolf being chased by a pack of wolves' mindset ready for the Big Finale. Will the Wolves win & tear me apart? Or will the Monster prevail & take their Bounty? Either way, *there will be jank & MEMES FOR ALL!* (I compare Hunt to 1800s Looney Tunes with Pioneer Weaponry)
@Claymann71 They really are both something special, and it's amazing to see the indie or AA community pulling off this sort of stuff when we see what AAA publishers are busy with trying to rip everyone off with barely finished games. Speaking of modded Fallout, really looking forward to Fallout London releasing this Friday! - Jason
From what I've seen and heard Valve has a 3rd party working on a fix for the bot problem and they're working on a permanent solution, finding how VAC can notice a bot hoster ban the bots and the hoster but it will take time
Sometimes I wish there was an alternative to Uncle Dane. I appreciate the efforts, but those servers have random crits off, and the game for me just isn't the same without them. That feeling you get when an enemy heavy suddenly starts shooting lasers, or a crocket whizzing by you out of nowhere is second to absolutely nothing.
Do they really have random crits off? I know people say they used to, but I heard they also used to have no random bullet spread and I swear I've seen random crits on Uncletopia lately... am I thinking of another server I played on, or was this just an old setting on Dane's servers? Otherwise, I definitely agree with you, Valve has balanced a bunch of weapons around not being able to random crit, so if there are none at all it's a bit of a bummer. Also, whilst I don't like games entirely dictated by randomness, games that are influenced by it are made a bit more interesting in my opinion. Take D&D as the classic example. Like you say, it adds an element of unpredictable thrill. - Jason
@@RealmSpaceGamingI'm not entirely sure, I haven't really checked up on them in a good while, but I know that they did at one point, and given Dane's personal stance on crits, I don't really expect that to have changed. Maybe it has, though.
I lived in Idaho during 2016. There was no games ever available. But it’s better than it was. It’s just the damn bots. I have seen so many mods that fixes it. Valve wants it dead.
New player of TF2 here (December 2023). TF2 was not kind to me when I first started playing- special thanks to the bot crisis. I only wanted to try it out after so long because of the Heavy is Dead meme I finally got to properly watch once I turned 18. In the state the game is in now, it saddens me, considering I was hooked immediately. I’m still able to get some pretty good casual servers every now and then, but I still feel the impact Valve has left on the game, attempting to let it indirectly die. It’s hard to have fun with these issues abound, and yes, I realize it is unbearable to code, but people still love the game- and what is Valve doing? Giving up. You know what they say, right? Never give up. We can only pray things get better, because it isn’t so far.
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Baby Face's Blaster](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Jyp8bEECsYY/mqdefault.jpg)
just doesn’t make sense how a company can be so rich and see a game of theirs be so beloved by the public and still leave it to rot…have they no heart?
I might be on the hopium big-time, but I believe that Valve will eventually see the value in the game the way the community keeps supporting it, but until that happens, my hope remains with the community.
- Jason
no they have no heart, gabe aint as good as he says he is
I mean, I can't imagine working on a project for 15+ years is fun for everyone involved. You can keep throwing people at the project who are willing and happy to work but it's incredibly hard to tell if the end product will be cohesive, good, and/or fun.
And I'm certainly not some Valve insider who knows what's going on at the company, but TF2 was left in the dust like 10 years ago when most of Valve moved on to greater projects. It's just how it is. And that's not to say Valve is a big bad corporation, they have some very honest people over there with a lot of passion, just not a lot with a passion for working on a old project not quite in line with where the company is going.
Gabe still greedy, we just in denial
Valve stopped trying as soon as they perfected their perpetual money machine. Why make games when you make bank doing nothing?
If there was something that scratched the same itch as TF2 we'd have probably migrated there years ago, but there's not. The community is lucky to have Uncle Dane and his servers. TF2 ain't dead yet.
We truly are, I really hope Uncle Dan is rewarded in turn.
- Jason
yup, never will die, no offense to the creator but I actually hated the title of this video
I have migrated over to Team Fortress 2 Classic. Great optimization, no bots, some cool new weapons and maps.
It’s on life support
Uncletopia is shit
the valves "work on what you want" rule have been a false claim ever like 2016, you see senior devs give you credit when you work on their projects, but they can also reduce credits if you dont work on their projects, leading to losses in revenue or even getting fired from valve
this is why tf2 is a literal breathing corpse, it's all senior devs who dont see any other project than theirs
We're not even asking for updates anymore, just keep the game playable by fixing the bot issue.
Honestly that would be enough for me, though ideally I would like them to put more of a focus on community servers because it empowers the community to do more, but sadly I don't think server owners ever recoup those costs.
- Jason
I immediately knew this was going to spotlight MYM as the TF2 killer. I've been saying "I miss pre-2016 TF2" for years now, but I gave up hope, sold my backpack, and moved on to other games. I bought the orange box when I was in high school, and I made a lot of memories and friends since then via TF2. I miss it, but I know it's not coming back.
I considered doing the same honestly as other friends of mine had, but I'm glad I didn't ultimately. If there's one thing I'd encourage you to try, it's TF2 Classic, no need for backpack as items are built in, and it really does feel like old TF2 again, even has the right lighting and models for it.
- Jason
@RealmSpaceGaming To be honest, I never did try those TF mods and such to attempt and replicate those golden years. I did find a totally different replacement over time, though. Another goofy game with a similarly low skill floor and high skill ceiling. I ask that you don't cringe, but trust me when I say I'm having similar fun by playing Fortnite.
I have played the game for a long time and it's sad to say but this game is finally dead. The inventory servers going down was the final straw. It wasn't the bots that destroyed the game. It was Valve's unwillingness to take care of the game.
@robertcop9889 No judgement, whilst it's not my own preference I can certainly see the appeal in it 😊.
Early days of PUBG were a similarly magical thing for me, to be honest I think I enjoyed PUBG almost as much as TF2 when it was new, but that has also since gone down too much of an e-sportsy route and is now a memeory.
- Jason
Your loss buddy, the community is still pretty much active and well.
Literally new memes are _still_ being made every day.
I have a blast whenever I play nowadays. Something something I don't care about updates and don't hold a game in high regard just because it's CONSTANTLY being updated like Valorant and Fortnite.
*As someone who plays TF2 since Day One, I can tell you that your video is spot on !*
Many thanks, I'm glad it's something people can relate to! Here's hoping that Valve will still surprise us 😉🤞
- Jason
world is small, Unit. That's scary I see you everywhere ahahah
Played since March 2008. Not exactly day 1, but I've also been around to experience all the different eras of TF2. Seeing the game's current state is nothing short of depressing.
wow. the legendary Unseen Unit. i recognized you for your good takes on the tf2 discussion bored.
I wish more people would admit that MYM was a mistake. and the fact that Valve doubled down with jungle inferno is just sad. If they brought quickplay back. tf2 could have avoided the bot crisis and maybe would been in a better place (even if we will not get updates. tf2 would have stayed fun forever)
Legacy sends regards, unseen unit.
Meet your match is the update where I and everyone else stopped playing tf2, because they totally ruined matchmaking times, I remember the day it released like it was yesterday, all the conversations I had with my friends about how we don't like it are a core memory for me.
I really wish they decided to roll back the matchmaking changes, I don't know how they didn't see the mistake they'd made.
- Jason
Same here. I still keep in touch with the friends I made on our main TF2 server back then. We got a Discord channel now where we post about life updates, memes, or even get together on other new games like Lethal Company.
Same, I remember I was so hyped, because one of my long time tf2 friends came back to the game to play it with me again after the update and we were so fucking dissapointed...
That was the last time I played with him... He died a year ago and after that I just can't play the game anymore, because everytime I boot up the game, my memories of us playing together are flashing back and I get too emotional to play. Shit sucks man..
For me I was so-hopelessly dedicated to TF2 back then, thinking Valve could do no wrong, that I didn't reach that moment until Jungle Inferno. It was then I realised Valve didn't really care for what TF2 was, and would eventually become. I am still at a complete loss to why they made the balance changes they did, why they didn't revert any of the poor decisions from their previous garbage update MyM. I was in a state of total shock, and left for 2 - 3 years after.
I came back in 2020 and have just stopped playing again, probably for another few years. Seeing Valve's abandonment towards this childhood game of mine that I'd picked up in 2008 that still kicks at every chance it gets is heartbreaking.
@@Shako955 y’all do anything to get attention and likes
Quick Play was the blessing that no one realized how good it was until we lost it. Competitive gaming is plague on gaming.
#AddQuickPlayBack
#RevertTF2toPreMYM
To see a game that was made before I was even born, and yet still be actively played is astounding
If only Valve actually cared
same here
Ik i'm late to this and I might sound like a fucking boomer, but god it sounds good to know there are younger people who still learn of the game.
U didn't mention it. Now u can queue for another match while playing your current match. It was updated years ago. Yes u can search for competitive, mvm and casual at the same time.
I am glad that Valve still cared enough to keep improving their search modes, but it's a real shame they didn't have those at launch. I just wish they'd bring back quick play 😕
- Jason
I mean, its impratical, ilogical and insane, vut you can do it!
Ive been playing since 2012. Ive had a relatively hard life and tf2 was a huge part of my life. It helped me get through my deepest depression episodes. I love this game, and i will still play the game even if it is just me left with the stupid bots of the training system. The way i feel about this situation is that all i see is pathetic life forms beating up a veteran just to say they have done something in life and the veteran looks towards valve begging for them to do something and vavle just turns around and walks away like Dutch does to Arthur. Valve needs to get the dildo out of their ass and actually do something because, from what i seen, they have gotten fat and happy with a ton of money that aint going anywhere.
#savetf2 #plzvalve
Very well written. TF2 was a massive part of my life in my teenage and later years. I was in South Africa at the time so we only had a few viable servers I could join but I made a lot of friends on those servers. Hopping on whenever I did it was like playing with a full LAN server of your friends, you knew everyone and they knew you, and you all knew who liked to play what classes... Magical times those! 😁
TF2 has been out of my life for the last few years on account of things getting busy but once I came back and played enough to make this video, I feel like I've been hooked again. The Uncletopia severs are close enough to what I miss from the good old days. I relate to how you feel about this game, it was made with love and personality and I have faith that even if Valve doesn't step up to keep it going, the community will.
- Jason
@RealmSpaceGaming magical times indeed, and I agree that tf2 will live on without valve with the community. You did an amazing job on the video, and honestly, if you'll have me, I'd love to play on some uncletopia servers. I main medic, us tf2 players need to stick together.
We'll get through this we do not have permission to die.
Bear.
I'd be HAPPY to! 😁 Keep an eye out on those servers for a Hadeda King, I main pyro but I play a bit of everything. Thank you for your kind words ❤️. Community together, strong! 💪
- Jason
People have been saying "TF2 is dead" or "TF2 is dying" for 10 years now. It won't die
The game is not but the soul is dead after MYM
It's dead bro. Not even a million players 😂
Valve doesn’t have to try anymore. They are a platform developer their not a game developer anymore anyone who speaks to the contrary ignores the fact that valves income calls from the royalties made off being the biggest land lord of pc gaming. Why make something new when you can just make money from rent. Tf2 is functionally alive because if the servers got shut down the idiots who dropped 6k on hats would slap valve with a lawsuit.
@@thedude4840 Lawsuit of what...?
@@leeroyjenkins867 their thousand dollar inventory being made worthless. Someone would argue theft and try to get their money back.
TF2 will never die! We will live forever!
We need more games like TF2 to compete with it.
True that 😎I love making dic pics from the sticky bombs 😅and I love the minor glitches like the A pose and stuff like that 😅 and breaking the map glitches it’s funny 😅
"I didn't say that! I just said we're not going to die full of bots!"
TF2 outlived it's TF2 "Killers" after all.
@@jagi6170 No, TF2 has never had competitors. They were similar and inspired by TF2.
From my perspective as a TF player since beta and a (retired) LAN-attending competitive player, you absolutely nailed this documentary, Jason. This is a very informed and fair-minded assessment of the development of the game from the viewpoint of different types of player, something not at all easy to achieve. I can't shake the feeling that there is more yet to come in the story of Team Fortress. Thank you for making this.
Thank you for your kind words, it means a lot! ❤️
I too really hope there's more to come in TF2's story 😁
- Jason
Value from 2007-17: Hears some updates and stuff for no reason
Value from 18-current year: F*ck this game
There are only 2 people at valve dedicated to tf2, and one of those is a contractor that is there purely for maintenance
And the other is a potted plant
Hopium on my part for sure but that's 2 more than there used to be it seems 😬
- Jason
🪴🤣
does the cockroach in the corner count?
I started playing in 2020 mid bot crisis and jesus I love how casual and silly tf2 can be but it’s so hard to come across a good server. Uncletopia is great but it’s hard to pick up new classes because everyone there seems so good at the game already
I don't consider myself to be too good at the game, but then I do typically main Pyro which isn't the highest skill ceiling class unless one is doing all the stunts that I can't do 😅. I 100% get what you mean though, cause learning other classes is difficult! I've been trying to improve as Sniper but my aim is trash 😬. I really do miss my local community servers, filled with all the local scrubs. Miss those days. A lot of my TF2 friends are all still in South Africa and I can't really play with them from the UK.
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming Ay I’m glad someone gets me lol, I’ve been maining medic and a bit of scout but queueing with friends all over (we all have bad sleep schedules) is a nightmare for ping, if it’s not bots it’s getting kicked for latency :’)
@smugdodofart27 the struggle is real 😔
Amazing we've come so far an still can't eliminate crazy ping in online games. Maybe someday, but alas for now places without decent community servers are out of luck.
- Jason
Player since 2012 here. I feel there was one major issue you missed here. The "Golden Years" dont just apply to 2007-2009. They went on until the mid 2010s, big issue here is the community itself. When I joined all those years ago servers were plentiful, and you could have oodles of silly goofy fun. It inspired me to spend money on the game even, now I run the official Gpan group on steam and have one of the biggest BPs in the game. I worked on servers for years, and had plenty of fun. I even tried opening up my own set of servers and community.
However this stopped in the late 2010s. Shortly before Covid hit in 2020 I noticed a massive increase in toxics. Not just botters but also closet cheaters and more. Hell. I tried to thank this game for giving me so many good memories that I opened up a small channel of my own, I got into voice acting and decided to make satirical acting bits my forte and schtick for my channel. This worked for about 5/20 games. The majority got me insulted for how I sounded, mocked, ridiculed, and more. Then I ran into the biggest Pedo in the game. No not Nursey, no not Mechawreck, but Venusian Rapper.
This woman beating, CP loving pedo scumbag recorded two videos on me out of context and uploaded them to the net. I got hounded for months, I still a YEAR LATER get harassed by his gross little toadies in games from time to time. This was after the Vorobey video outing him as the most disgusting nutcase in the game.
In the Golden Years I was NEVER subjected to this much toxicity from the community. In the old days this game was dominated by bronies, furries, and weebs. Now its a bunch of 4chan and Reddit toxics that flock here in droves. The game is indeed dead, the core community that once made up the majority moved on to other titles, and while some of the people like us remember the good ol days and try to keep them alive, we are now the minority. Our game isnt just dead, it was absconded with.
I will continue to do what I can to keep the games spirit alive, and have hope for it, but unless a reckoning is done to give the true community the reigns again, I fear for this games future.
As if it has a future. Can’t say much when all you see are bots, horny people, or otherwise immature individuals… the zombies have basically won.
For me, my main golden years playing TF2 were from 2010 - 2014, and I experienced TF2 since 2008. The early years were still very fun, and the community of the game used to be so laid back and cozy you could honestly just have a blast dying over and over again with funny voicechat in the background. The main draw of 2010 - 2014 for me though was taking that initial community and watching it grow over the years with a plethora of updates to always keep you guessing. I'm very nostalgic over all the old surf community servers and halloween maps to this day. 2015 onwards was where the game started getting taken too seriously, then followed MyM (quite-possibly Valve's worst TF2 update) which spat in the face of TF2's original playerbase to appease a small minority, and it STILL ended up flopping for that minority community regardless, and then Jungle Inferno which rubbed salt into the wounds of said playerbase.
the bots also for a time were able to change their profile pics and name to players on a team they were joining. Another thing that used to not exist was their shitty melee script rendering fists of steel heavy not meta at taking them out (i mean you can still kinda cheese it by baiting them into melee range then swapping to a shotgun)
inside the turd of mym were nuggets of.. well not gold so i guess tin or iron? teleporters going from 125 metal to build to 50 as well as the faster build rate during setup time (which was already in mannpower prior i think) as well as the comics and imo the aethstetic of mym was pretty good.
Oh yea, there were a bunch of positive changes in the rest of the update and I love the comics! 😁
Just the matchmaking itself was... Anti-tf2.
- Jason
People often dont understand about bot and cheater crisis
Is that these arent just randoms and we should take a look at it from valve's perspective
These are coders who knows how to exploit anti cheats
The internet is a place that has information to exploit and cheat in almost any game
Websites, youtubers, coding tutorials, ip changing and so much more
Its an unending loop of developing anti cheats someone discovering cracks and the bot makers exploiting it and even if you try to sue them
New groups take their places
It is one of the great puzzles of our time, and given the two generals problem, I doubt there's any way to fix it for good 😕 but I do wish Valve would do a bit more maintenance even if there's no permanent solution. They must still be making money from TF2, if for no other reason than the game's marketplace transactions.
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming to me, the best changes they can do about it is making real players able to kick and ban bots easier and patching bugs and glitches related to it and also other mechanics
Thats up to the developers but due to valve's work culture which lets devs work on anything anytime, theinterest they have over tf2 against other big projects decline more and more
The best way to minimize bots in lobbies is making valve promoting the community servers (mostly uncletopia)
Amen to that!
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming agreed but valve is a "small company" around 350 people as for right now tf2 is on the low end of priority list with the steam deck and CS2 and rumor new game at the top. In the past year Dota 2 has taken back seat to maintain mode.
Saying this I believe there is hope in the future, once they debut their CS2 anti-cheat I hope they integrate into TF2 at the same time put TF2 at the top priority after they r done with CS2 plus all the new recruits that has been training on developing on CS2 will work on TF2.
Well I have learned their is a way to beat the bots at their own game 😐one person can’t go on alone you need a full Uber pyro and a medic I tried this and won 😎
Its sad because the player number reported on Steam is grossly inflated by mostly Idler bots and that's why the player numbers appear the way they do.
I highly disagree. Valve made TF2 one of the best games in history.
The main issue is that at first, Valve was passionate about the game. Then, it slowly devolved into what is basically just a promotional tool for new releases on Steam to fuel pre-order sales with promotional items. I mean for crying out loud, about 25-50% of weapons and at least 10% of cosmetics are promotional items from different games. The Widowmaker, one of most widely beloved weapons in the game, as well as the Machina, are both nearly direct copies of the weapons from Deus Ex.
Since Valve makes more than enough money to not have to focus on developing their games anymore, and because TF2 was already just a tool to promote new releases, there is no point in putting much work into the game anymore.
I wish there were more cosmetic tie-ins than functional ones, my favourite one is still the Lumbricus Lid for the Holy Hand Grenades, felt like it was a nice bit of Worms flavour. But that's the thing, considering TF2 works nicely as a promotional tool, shouldn't that be more incentive for them to maintain it?
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming theoretically speaking: Yes.
In reality, Valve makes such a fortune just running Steam and getting their cut whenever someone buys a game that they have no real reason to put any effort into anything they do. Valve has made it clear that they're trying to become a hardware company with things like Steam VR, the Steam Deck etc. Counter Strike 2 was probably an exception because it's been in the works for years and scrapping it wouldn't have been worth it.
"If my garbage had garbe it would've been this" is the perfect description of Matchmaking indeed.
Valve Needs to make more games
as a new player, i love this and i wish i had known about this game all those years ago
Meet Your Match opened Pandoras box, and just like a stubborn spoiled child, Valve kept pushing and breaking without reverting anything back or acknowledging that Meet Your Match was crap. I really miss many maps that were hosted on servers, like Conne maps, and many newer players will never get to experience such maps, like koth_wubwubwub.
No. Tf2 will not die. I promise you that. Too many people with good hats.
I wish I could say I was one of them, but I have at least one good hat on my Pyro 🤣.
The backlash would be too large if they ever shut it down completely considering the item economy is so massive. They make a lot of money off of market trades on these items alone.
- Jason
Been around since 2012, miss keys being 2.33 ref and the crafting system actually having value lol. Definitely miss pre meet your match, I played for some months then stopped, not picking it back up until jungle inferno released.
All that truly matters is our memories.
What made the game and that time period in each of our lives memorable in the first place.
No one can take that from you.
Amen to that! Those days will always be special in my memory! 😁
I probably opened a few too many crates in hope of getting an unusual! 🤣 To this day, the only one I have ever gotten was gifted to me by a friend, and that made it all the more special. Those days coming home from school, hopping online, playing a few rounds with the regulars... I'll never forget 'em.
- Jason
Aaah, those were the days. Then came that Damnable Price Manipulator.
I hate valve so much, they absolutely turned me against them, just because the blatant abuse and neglect of tf2
If anybody should ask me "What is wrong with TF2", this vid probably sums it up better and in a shorter time span than the other ones around.
The only thing missing is how with MYM and afterward the item/weapon balancement was completely destroyed as well, maybe not a in-depth explaination but even a mention would been nice.
Thank you 😁!
I thought about putting in the item balance stuff, but I realised I didn't know enough about the changes there to make a proper comment. I do remember the days when the backburner had extra damage just for existing and no airblast, but that was a loooong time prior to MYM I think. You're right though, I should've mentioned it, ty for the feedback :)
- Jason
I didn't start playing tf2 until 2019, and it genuinely feels like every single game I come to goes to shit as soon as my presence is established.
That being said it truly sucks that Valve can't be damned to care about it, they're a billion dollar company yet they can't afford to hire people to actually work on Team Fortress 2 or any game for that matter.
I've almost lost hope, but I'm still going to cling on to the hope Valve will suddenly change their minds, even if that likely won't happen
That's why our hope lies in the community I think, projects like Team Fortress Classic might be able to provide what we're after in the long term by building on a solid foundation. For now at least we have the Uncletopia servers, but if the community servers disappear, TF2 will with it.
- Jason
I always wanted to post tf2 content but pivoting too it when how well established some creators are already are in the space (zesty, dane, maxo etc) would be impossible to make content to that level. I want to put my 2.5K hours to use 😅
I wasn't really a big viewer of TF2 UA-cam until I made this video, and I didn't watch too much in researching this topic either, but in the days since this video went live I've watched loads of SoundSmith (absolutely love his production quality), Elmaxo, Uncle Dane, and Great Blue among others, and I'm completely blown away that my little video is popping off in a scene where all of their videos exist! 🤯 Popping off relative to our channel size at least.
But I'd encourage you to go for it! Despite having played for a long time (tho only 700 hours on my main Steam acc), I still consider myself a casual because I've always played like one. My goal was never to be GREAT at TF2, it was just to screw around and have fun. As a result, I became decent at it, maybe even good on some classes, but I'm definitely not UA-camr good! 😅
Ultimately it was the community that kept this game alive, and to do that it needs even more creators covering the space in my opinion. Definitely go for it 😉!
- Jason
the queue time taking forever and the bot crisis are really big and very real problems, i wish they would fix them.
I think the bots in casual aren't actually by Valve themselves, because TF2 Valve bots make the movements, sometimes hit body shots, and switch to melee and secondary when you're close, and you CAN get close, whereas TF2 PLAYER bots have the aimbot, the sighting hack and all in between, a significant different in my opinion
its crazy how so many devlpers jumped on "matchmaking" system hype when there is literally 0 game with good matchmaking system, the problem is that there are so many factors in what makes a good player "good" that any system trying to detect and filter one out would be wrong 90% of a time, in all these game you find the exact same problem, good players being pitted against bad ones, its funny how tf2 servers were more balanced without matchmaking than with it.
The level system is bullocks, I was a level 10 demo main being but into a game where half the enemy team were level 100
womp womp git gud
I don’t understand why valve abandoned TF2 when there’s still a huge player base. There’s definitely still plenty of money to be made for them from TF2
Casual is effectively dead for me, almost always bots, mvm is all I hav now, when saver tf2 happened I saw less bots, but then bots just started becoming a bigger issue again
Amen to that, I really wish they would at least bring back quick play as an option to revive more community servers. Do miss me some MvM though, haven't played that in years. How far can one get in MvM with a casual fun loadout?
- Jason
Not for me 😐while I don’t mind casual i just hate loosing 😒 so I play class wars 🙂the only times I play casual is during Halloween 😎
Now I play nothing but uncletopia. But its so competitive that it just doesn’t have the same atmosphere…
I just feel like this game isn't the same as the other early Source multiplayer games now, since they pushed a lot of limits to it. Matchmaking, in-app purchases, you get the rest. I know that the devs said that it would be an ongoing project, but at this point the game had a lot of content updates that made the game a disk-space killer, and now I even see how SteamPipe happened. I really wished I had played the game in its early days, and I would've accepted the addition of a few modes like KOTH and Payload and PASS Time. I did downlod a custom menu that brought "back" the classic menu, but it still felt ruined because of the new menu code and that big bar at the top of the screen. Nowadays I just try to pretend that they never added cosmetics and the shop, but even then, I still see people using their hats and weapons even after the item servers went back up. And whenever I across those, I just say in my mind that those things do not exist, much like Saxton Hale. Speaking of, I even wondered why they decided to add lore to this game. The game truly cannot be the game it was in the old days.
I remember quickplay, and god was it fun. Who on earth in valve decided: "Hey. Let's ruin a perfectly well functionable casual experience and ignore the game for years the come!"
>2014 sad feels
It is sad isn't it? 😔
I really have hope, not that Valve will do something, but that the community will keep it alive long enough for Valve to care again. Either that, or TF2 Classic.
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming I actually dislike TF2 Classic. The era they emulate is the baby steps beginner years, which means it's repetitive gameplay on repetitive maps as there's 0 unlockable items you can actually use (other than one meaningless side grade of stock) unless you join a broken custom weapon server that won't let you in and crash.
Open Fortress should get all the attention, as it's an excellent Source recreation of those old-timey arena deathmatxh games like Quake or Half Life Deathmatch. When Half Life's anniversary happened and people flocked back to Half Life 1's servers I genuinely had the most fun in a vjdeogame since forever, not even TF2 can compare anymore
Watch the video "TF2: Nobody's Home" By ZestyJesus. He explains exaclty what the spike in playerbase is.
To keep it short NONE of it was actually human players trying to game out and playing it bc of the new update. It's idle farming bots that farm over 2 million cases. roughly 2 thirds of tf2 actively reported playercount is botted and none of the events actually saw an iflux of players returning/new players.
All. Just. Bots.
Oh and even the playercount right now is botted 2 thirds. Valve likely knows this hence why they threw the towel.
I started the game a week ago i used to hate on it for no reason and I started it and i loved it i dont understand how good the golden years where but the game is still so good
One correction, quick play was all valve servers unless you allowed for community servers to show in the quick play search.
Ah yes, I forgot that I had to enable that, thanks for the reminder 😊. Even then, quick play seemed to function so much better than all the added restrictions of casual, it at least didn't feel too different from the community servers. Casual matchmaking on the other hand seems clinical. It's all over so fast.
- Jason
I like community servers. the problem is I am a simple man. Most servers that I try to join have no respawn or have some sort of rule changes. I just want the casual gameplay which can be hard to find on the community servers, especially for newer players. The vanilla servers do exist, but they are always full and tend to have a higher skill gap, again new players. If the focus was shifted back to community servers then I can see those types of vanilla servers will become more common and popular and with the attention that the new #fixtf2 movement has it shows that there are people willing to play the game still if something was done about its current state.
I find it fascinating to hear people originally hating on matchmaking, then going from that to people loving and preferring it over community servers currently; they want the bots gone from them and aren't satisfied with what the community has to offer.
Can we please show some appreciation for the user name "KISS a girl already"?
For anyone doubting the tag, they legit censored the word 'kiss' just to make people double take and rip on them when they assumed it was suppose to be vulgar.
(I'll admit there could have been more than one person using a similar name at the time, but the one I ran into would not answer to anything other than "kiss".
To bring you up to speed:
-Its not dying
-It never will
-Best multiplayer fps game ever
-Community servers exist to get around bots
I really hope that never will part is true, but I don't like to think about what'll happen if folks like Uncle Dane take down their servers 😟
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming for sure, then I have no doubt another committed tf2er will come in to make more community servers ;)
Community servers still get dominated by bots
@@THE_MrNoob nope, I've yet to find one that does, at least for the active servers. Can you name some you've joined that have bots so I can see?
@@Christoff070Idk there's an RTD class wars one, Skial 2fort servers
I think specifically when you consider the success of Valve's other E-Sports games, TF2 definitely lacked a lot of the attention from both Valve and thus the E-Sports communities, it just didn't have the same competitive energy as Dota and CS.
100% agree, but that's what I personally like about TF2. I'm only good at these sort of competitive games when playing LAN against my friends. My all time favourite for this was Unreal Tournament 3, a good combination of arcadey fun with those old quake-like competitive elements mixed in. Even if I had the time to learn how to quickscope and play with super low sensitivity, I wouldn't want to, I don't want my fun relaxation time to feel like another job 😔. TF2 has always had this silly, fun, casual atmosphere to it, and I'd venture to say most players play it that way, even on Uncle Dane's servers. I know there are comp players, but Valve trying to jam their mode into the game for everyone... it just didn't work.
- Jason
I quit because of the community and the direction the game went. I hate the community, i hate these dudes that think they’re femboys, the immaturity, mic spamming, the cheaters and hackers, the community weapons the lack of teammates. If it does, it will be good for the game because the crappy people will moveon to other games. It will make me think the game can become an enjoyable game because normal people will be all that’s left. Content creators still play TF2. TF2 needs a good cleanse. It really does.
your game review was spot on, I stopped playing shortly after the mvm update I had been playing since my high school years which was my golden era used to be on an LA server called the lions den but admins hardly ever played and had a zero tolerance policy where they also seemed to play favorites via admission to a clan alot of the regulars ended up getting banned and very rarely did anyone get unbanned I'm glad I stopped before the time of widespread bots and I definitely had some mixed feelings about going free to play, but then again I was also interested in competitive team play, which I also thought was kinda fun.
Thank you for the kind words! ❤️
Community servers were quite something back then weren't they? I'll admit, once comp matchmaking was working, I did enjoy that for a brief while. I considered mentioning FaceIt in this video, but that died so quickly I didn't think it was worth overcomplicating things. Though I enjoyed the bit of organised play I did, I still yearned for that more casual side of the game.
- Jason
I started in 2012 but didn’t really play much until 2022. I feel like i was able to see a glimpse of the golden era through some community servers and other moments. The “cease fire” moments happened a lot and were always a ton of fun. I was always the T-posing heavy, screaming help me over and over.
You truly have seen the golden age 😁!
Perhaps we might see it again if Team Fortress 2 Classic becomes more popular, but it needs a lot more attention and more servers in different regions first I think.
- Jason
I'm a regular on a 2fort server, I've made plenty of friends on there. One of which is a new player that I show them the ropes to. I greet the other regulars if I notice them (usually when they kill me), and I mostly remember their playstyles. I started playing pretty much right after jungle inferno, but I was a fan even before then ( I never had a computer back in the day). Tf2 supported me throughout high school, now it's going to do the same in college, too. I don't want the game to continue to go in the direction it is.
Finally someone with brains who actually knows when this hellhole started and why, most people just say it started in 2020.
Many thanks, I wanted to make sure people understood how far back this issue goes, and how long we've had to endure it.
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGamingI'll be real with you, I've started playing in summer 2020, so the bot crisis was pretty much my first impression of the game. I thought it was something new and due to my love for this wacky game, I supported it as much as I could. Learning how long Valve has abandoned this game made me realise it might not be worth it anymore.
I hope to design a class-based multiplayer shooter in the future, so on the bright side, I'm learning from Valve's mistakes to make sure my company thrives, but is also fair to its consumers.
Great video, thanks for informing me!
@@RealmSpaceGaming Thanks for covering this topic in such detail, most people get details about it very wrong.
Been playing since June 2008, I can only pity those who missed out on the golden era, especially if you played after 2017.
Amen to that, was something really special at the time. I still remember the first hat that someone found in our local server once those came in, we all gathered around to see it on their head 🤣.
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming anyone who played after the inferno update would be like attending a someone’s house party that you keep hearing was the best party of the year (golden age of tf2) only to find it was over hours ago with a bunch of passed out people, trash everywhere, leftover cupcakes, and a half eaten pizza and you had to make the best of that. That’s TF2 in the current day.
@Labyrinth6000 sadly quite an accurate description 🤣😔
- Jason
Been playing since 2012, and honestly i hold TF2 close to my heart as it was a big game apart of my childhood. That being said it really hurts to see how far the game has fallen throughout the years, but admirable how the community refuses to let it die. However I haven't played or enjoyed the game in roughly over a year now and have gotten a bit sick of the community when though my eyes most TF2 players are still stuck in the Overwatch vs TF2 mindset and feels like because Valve obviously does not care for TF2 a lot of people will do anything they can to constantly compare the games and talk crap about it. I also feel like casual is still just unplayable and being in Australia the only days with community servers are full are on the weekends. I still love TF2 and I won't sell my inventory because i also hold my cosmetics dear to me, in case i ever decide to return willingly and really enjoy it again.
im willing to throw everything im committed to out the window for this game. fuck sports.
It is a pretty amazing game isn't it? 😄
I do miss the days where more games took after it, even Overwatch 1 had golden years following it. The focus on the pro-scene alone has not done wonders for games imo, there needn't always be a crossover.
- Jason
Overwatch consulted a large number of "pro" TF2 teams during development of their game and comp system. They launched at a time that esports was on the up with a ready made comp scene featuring movement that perfectly emulated TF2.
Go back to sports my guy, much more worthwhile than this pile of cheeks state of a game.
Please dont unironically drop it all for a decaying game 😤
The game gives me a great experience for how great the community can be even in 2024
I know that what I’m about to say is not from TF2 but WE CAN DO ANYTHING!
I remember a while ago where they actually implemented something that prevented bots from copying real players' data and Steam ID, which was something... and that makes me think that they are absolutely unable to solve this problem :/
sadly iv kinda quit tf2, after dealing with the bots for 3 to 4 years im sick and tired of it,
Edit: i do come back to play for a bit when seasonal updates come tho :)
I'm from south america and the bot issue is almost solved and the community is really nice
Tbh, Valve can’t revert it back to Quickplay now because if they do, bots will ruin the core of TF2 “The Community Servers” I think, what we should do RN. Is encorage newer players to play Community Servers for maximum TF2 experience or spam Valve to improve Anti Cheat systems. Add more people to work on TF2. Community literally wants to fix TF2 and they will do it for free, Valve. All you need is allows Community a second chance to improve the game.
Imagine if they did that, it would literally be no extra work on their part. I really hope Valve realises how willing the community is to fix this game through the existence of projects like TF2 Classic. I can't say I know what all the logistics would involve, but certainly it couldn't get worse than it is now 😔.
- Jason
I've been playing TF2 since almost its beginning. I started back in the summer of 2008 and have pretty much almost experienced everything the game went through. I still come back to play it from time to time, but with all the unbalanced weapons and bot infestations its at times unplayable. Honestly, there have been times I've just played with expert bots instead of casual servers because of that.
I know what you mean, I used to enjoy chilling lan sometimes and setting all bots to melee only then just having a highlander match 😁
- Jason
21:01 valve hires people? I just thought it was the company owner sitting at a pool and occasionally scratching himself
"Why is TF2 dying?" Counter Strike. Valve sees money and the counter strike community hands them hundreds if not hundreds of thousands every time a crate drops. TF2 has a large trading scene yes but not to the same extent.
In the end its all about the benjamins and CSGO and CS2 will print valve way more money than TF2 at this age
Valve disowning tf2 and the community who survived a lot of time, but still gives them small uptades which is a toxic relitionship 😢
I remember the bots using *#SaveTF2* in their names. That's bold; these guys are shameless. That was clearly an attack against the community, and you can't convince me otherwise.
My question is why?
they gain pleasure seeing people mad/sad about it
In a way the meet your match update was proof that a lot of TF2 UA-camrs had no idea what the hell they were talking about and valve should have ignored the vast majority of them. A lot of the changes implemented in the game were mostly suggestions from prominent UA-cam figures at the time and it has unironically let us to where we are now
Not the first or last game to make that mistake sadly 😕. When will devs learn that UA-camrs with 5000% more game time than the average player will want something different to what the average player wants?
- Jason
i don't really blame valve as the source engine isn't anywhere near the best and most stable thing to work with (which *might* be partly why valve ported CSGO over to source 2)
Perhaps, but with so many people still playing the game and with such a massive in-game economy, it's hard to just watch them do nothing 😔.
- Jason
its sad I have all my friends from TF2 but I don't even play it anymore. TF2 never dies but it came so close a lot of times
Honestly when This game dies I think that people would still get itch to play it time to time you know,I mean it's been years since this game released and you still can have real fun playing it.
Even after the orange box edition I still enjoy this game till this day
Not a bad summary but I think you're undervaluing the impact of the lead developer leaving TF2 after only 23 years in the role, in 2009. Couple that with Valve's not widely publicised "work anywhere you want so long as it's not TF2" policy and the "ooo shiny" appeal of anything that isn't decades old code. If anything it's a wonder why they didn't abandon the game completely earlier. If it wasn't for Mannconomy being the canary in CS2/DOTA's economy they would have turned the servers off in 2012!
There's a fascinating story to be told here but as I said, this is a pleasant start.
I didn't know about that 😱
Suddenly a lot of things make sense now, and I think you're right about that spaghetti code, I really hope it's not totally unfixable at this point.
- Jason
Thanks Jason for doing this ♥
I’ve have played many games but tf2 will always have, soft spot in my heart. One of the first pc game I ever play and I enjoy every single second of it ❤❤❤.
I couldn't agree more! 😁
Will always represent my best video game memories!
- Jason
If we want updates back to gotta do #Savetf2 part 3, and our protesting needs to come from anger, not appreciation. We're not succeeding because we're being too nice. We need to show Valve how Angy we are.
Anger? Nah, we need to be LIVID!!
LIKE, THE GAME HAS BEEN ABANDONED FOR OVER 8 YEARS NOW!! IF THEY WANT TO KEEP IGNORING IT, GIBE IT TO THE COMMUNITY OF JUST SHUT IT OFF!!
@@umrayquazashinyapareceu1672 Riot and Anarchy level livid 😤? Cause believe me Some fans are willing to reennact meet the pyro on Valve HQ in Bellevue.
@@user-wj4ph2ht5c be sure i am..
(I'm also salty they stopped the awards, bcs the creator of emesis blu should've gotten, at least, 2 saxxies
I think the best incentive for them would be financial. The wiki reports that the in-game item economy was valued at $50 million back in 2011 and I imagine that must have gone up since, and that's not to mention the 3rd party market for rare unusuals or warpaints. Valve makes money every time an item is bought or sold on the community market too.
If they pulled some monster of an update and threw the game on the front of the store page for a while as well as fixing a few issues, that alone would draw in a ton of new players and a lot of new money for Valve. I mean, I don't think they need it, but business decisions motivated by finance is usually a pretty smart way to go.
- Jason
My hot take and theory, the bots are player added, meaning that Valve has to mess with the code for joining servers, meaning they could ruin queue times even more than it already is, I do hope they make a more advanced vote kick scenario and steam overall strengthens their "create account" situation so people don't just add bot profiles not just TF2, but also for other multiplayer/cross platform games
Should tf2 really die it would be gay
Gay indeed
Most of this information is just a reworded version of Lister's video. A lot of the information is also not detailed enough and had no research put into it. The bots don't join community servers because the community servers have improved anti-cheat plugins.
I haven't seen Lister's video, but if we came to similar conclusions then I'm glad I'm not alone in these thoughts at least 😅. Thanks for sharing the bit about the anti-bot plugins, I didn't know that was the reason 🤔! But why doesn't Valve implement the same plugins? Surely their servers could take them too? Or do they just not want to😔?
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming Jason I think we both know that valve is run by a plant and Gaben's dog and the plant is in charge of the nothingness happening to tf2.
@MA78yt wouldn't surprise me in the slightest 🤣
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming On a serious note, last I heard there was actually only one person working on Team Fortress 2.
It’s plain and simple. Valve isn’t in the game development business anymore. When they developed Steam and allowed independent developers to list their games on there it became very lucrative for them. Why make them when others can do that for you and reap 30% of the revenue? Very smart on their part.
Gabe will only allow the development of games through Valve if it shows extreme promise which is why they haven’t released many titles in the past few years.
I commend them on that. They aren’t trying to suck us dry of our money with some half baked bullshit like most AAA companies out there. Valve is legit the industry leader.
17 years old, ridden with bots, years of time with no content whatsoever, still ranks stupidly high in how many people play it. Testament to quality and thought the creators have put in, too bad they have moved on completely it seems.
I just returned to tf2 a few days ago, and it's still fun as hell with all the chaos. The only two problems are ofcourse the bots and the fact that I can't use the chat, I can't even call for a medic.
I think what enabled the bots was that the modern hardware could easily run the game and multiple bot instances. Around, before/after MYM there was a short Catbot wave that was essentially same as what has been the norm since MYM. Catbots weren't using any AI learning but by my own observation, neither do the bots of today.
After the initial waves the bots barely use any learning algorithms anymore. I speculate that the bot hosters just realized that ruining game really didn't need the latest GPU at 100% utilization. The functions bots do: spam chat/mic, headshot and move... simple scripting. All existed before the leak. If they know what map they are in, it shouldn't be difficult to use separate program to WASD them around. It was the player decrease after MYM that did the most damage as bots are mostly a problem only when the player count is low.
I didn't know 50 to 60k players on average was a dying game lol.
@@WinXP_SP1Just saying, the player count is misleading as bot accounts are counted in. In other games the player count drops during the night as players go to sleep. This looks like waves in the player count graph. Look CS2 for example: the player count regularly halves for the night. TF2 the dip is 5000 people regularly, 10% of total. TF2 players apparently never sleep... cause large chunk of them are bots. If CS2 drops 50% periodically and TF2 10% then it could even be that 40% of the players are bots.
Wouldn't call it dead either as there are tens of thousands of dormant players just waiting for an update to play like the last summer. It's just buried alive.
My guy, keeping up with the cheaters and bots is a very difficult task to do. Every time Valve thinks of a solution the cheaters/bot hosters are 1 step ahead. Think about this from Valve's prespective, they're dealing with no life losers who know how to code this stuff and are trying to combat them.
You're right, and I do try to sympathise with them, but I wonder why the bots don't join community servers or why they don't show up in Counter Strike. Is it really just all due to the source code leak?
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming The reason why is that community servers actually have coded more resources to combat the issue via server plugins and it most likely is due to the Source leak. Remember, pretty much TF2's entire code was leaked out to everybody meaning that cheaters/bot hosters have an easier time getting around Valve's anticheat because they can look into the code and figure out ways behind it. Valve did push out updates to make combating the bots easier, and while it helps they're still trying to find out what makes them tick. Not to mention that the bot hosters are using VPNs, meaning it's hard to get a current lock on who is hosting them and just smack them with a lawsuit.
That's fair enough, but still very sad. Glad that the community servers have that level of defence at least.
- Jason
valve is a multi billion dollar corporation
Amazing video Bro!!! brought tears to my eyes !! oh YES YES it really did!! this really is a wonderful video... you've really outdone yourself!!!
Thank you for the kind words! 😁
- Jason
dude, at this point I play boot camp or community, I dead can't get a server that isnt full of bots and not being kicked, I just want valve to show they care
Very true, our hope is in the community servers.
- Jason
the funny thing about tf2 classic (or a project similar to it, my memory is a bit fuzzy) is that at one point valve asked them to shut their download, and tf2 classic did, hoping that it would mean change for actual TF2, but nothing happened, so they put the download back up lmao
Even if vale NEVER properly updates tf2 ever again 😐you would be surprised the amount of times you would start to love the lack of updates 🙂as I started playing tf2 in 2017 🙂and while I understand the cosmetics on steam I was stuck on the casual on the orange box for years 😐until in the 2020s I finally got a steam account and I really liked it 😎so while I understand that value may never properly update tf2 ever again 😐im happy with the casual version I have 🙂as once you realize once you have what you have 😐you may appreciate the game itself 🙂as for the bots their not impossible to beat 😐all you need is a medic and full Uber pyro I tried it and it worked out 😎
The bots can be killed, but their mere presence limits any kind of traditional TF2 fun. One would have a better time just playing singleplayer against Valve's bots rather than these hacker bots. Thankfully we don't have to do that as long as community servers exist, but I shudder to think of what'll happen if they ever disappear D:
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming true 😐but it’s always best to be aware as they could appear mostly on Halloween and Christmas 😐
Don't forget how Valve blamed/got angry at the fans for getting outraged about their F#ck ups over the years on top of Valve getting caught lying about working on some of the problems i.e matchmaking when released, original bot problem etc which contributed to Valves reluctance to fix TF2 even just outsourcing the problem even if they didn't want to do it themselves due to Valve being angry with the fans.
Some of the anger Valve had with the community could be understandable as in the past there was several hacks done/data mining but it wasn't really ever TF2 centric more Valve being 'attacked' as a whole, the only time it really was directly related to TF2 was when an outside contractor that was assisting on several projects one of which was TF2 shared documents and such with the community on Valve communications on those projects plus some prototypes of game ideas (this was during the period of time when Valve employees could do whatever they wanted that you mentioned near the end @Realm Space Gaming but they haven't done so for around the past 5 years and Half Life Alyx was mainly worked on for two reasons 1 was to experiment with VR but also because Valve hired a business executive to help with productivity due to how many projects were being scrapped each week).
The problem with Valves anger with the community was that all these 'leaks' were mainly caused by Valves lack of communication and the fans wanting to know what was going on but Fans for the most part figured out that Valve was lying about fixing things through what Valve itself released to the public.
I REALLY don't get why Valve doesn't outsource the problem of fixing/updating TF2 to source 2 if they don't want to do it themselves, the developers of the fan project of TF2 Source 2 were even willing to do it For them even if it meant having to restart from the beginning after the issues with the cease and desist plus using S&Box (garrys mod 2) source program.
P.S If someone could explain to me why couldn't the TF2 Source 2 developers of just made it a prerequisite of owning team fortress 2 and having it installed so that you can use the assets from the original game to play their version, why couldn't they do that or something similar to deal with the cease and desist?
This is really useful information!
The tf2 source 2 devs won't fix shit because they mostly ported assets from tf2 into s&box and got burnt out on all the glitches that process caused, making the whole mod abandoned and broken, much like TF2
For me it died when they make the update with the level rank and those „medals” mostly cuz player like ,e who has many hours and has some experience is now putting in “level 1” player
Yup, I went through that. I already had 6k hours into the game when the level system was introduced and we all started at level 1 again. The great tragedy is that many of the bots have been getting away with it for so long that they can often appear to be much more mature, tier 2 Lvl 40+, players by now.
Yea, I was surprised they didn't at least give some levels based on achievements, time played, class stats, or... anything really. It felt like such a half baked update. 😔
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGamingI wish they did medals for thr levels, hittint level 100, prestige etc. Just feels soulless.
well tf2 is still kickin and will probably still be kicking for years to come
Amen to that! Maybe this is a controversial opinion but I don't see why we need to sunset games like we used to, not when people care about them this much.
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaminghell yea 😎
It's a shame. It's an IP that still generates money for the company and the least they can do is preserve its longevity.
Not only were they spamming offensive slurs they were spamming insults to rick may on the day of his death
I went from TF2 to L4D2 LoL to Overwatch 1 to Deep Rock Galactic. (For co-operative PvP Gaming)
I still have TF2 but i haven't been on it since 2018.
I still remember my favorite Character Builds & Game Modes but all of the friends I had on TF2 are long gone.
Half of the reason I played TF2 was for the group of Friends I played with & the other Half was the goofing-around you highlighted.
I know I can make new friends & the Community is just as silly as ever but I'm +10 years older & have limited time for Gaming on days I have any time at all!
Fallout 4 Modded has become my 'Sand Garden' Game where i just zone-out by myself until I have to go do something productive.
Great video! Subbed for more Content!
...Any chance you'd want to look into the game Deep Rock Galactic?
Many thanks, truly appreciate the kind words and I 100% relate to your situation! TF2 was also like that for me, 50% goof about, 50% chilling with friends, but sadly as we all got older, life got busy, we all had less time to play games and what time they had they didn't spend on TF2. Now the distance makes it next to impossible, can't really play on South African servers from the UK and vice versa. When I do get to play with my old online group now, it's stuff like Minecraft, Warframe, Barotrauma, Gunfire Reborn, Deep Rock Galactic, and more recently Pal World and Helldivers.
If you enjoy Deep Rock, I highly recommend Helldivers, it's a really good time and similar vibes where the combat is concerned, though Deep Rock does have that more class based gameplay approach and there's just something epic about being dwarves! 😁 It may well be a game I look further into covering though, do you have any suggestions for a topic? 👀
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGaming I've heard good things about Helldivers but I haven't really explored it yet!
What little extra time I don't spend on DRG & Fallout 4 Modded, I enjoy playing Hunt: Showdown.
DRG is fast-paced & a real challenge on Hazard 5 Elite Deep Dives.
When you start the game, you enjoy exploring the different Biomes & Missions.
Then, you learn about the existence of Overclocks for your favorite Weapons that you've been already using & you see the different playing-styles you can invest into.
I'll admit, if you don't enjoy the Missions & Combat, you';; quickly lose interest in it but the game is Cheap, Handles DLC Appropriately (NOT GREEDY & SINFUL) & is constantly being worked & improved on.
For a AA Dev Team, it's a work of Art!
Hunt is interesting because while many will be attracted to 'being a cowboy-witcher who hunts monsters & the undead', you soon realize that the NPCs are just there for you to fight over while the REAL danger is the other Hunters who will blow your brains out for your Bounty or just your boots or JUST BECAUSE!
I love having to chase down some Hunter who thinks they're going to get away with the Bounty & having a 'last stand gunfight' at the extraction Locations.
I love EVEN MORE when I take the Bounty myself & become the Target of every bloodthirsty sunavah gun with True Grit enough to try & stop me.
I find my Ambush Location, set my traps & get my 'Werewolf being chased by a pack of wolves' mindset ready for the Big Finale.
Will the Wolves win & tear me apart?
Or will the Monster prevail & take their Bounty?
Either way, *there will be jank & MEMES FOR ALL!*
(I compare Hunt to 1800s Looney Tunes with Pioneer Weaponry)
@Claymann71 They really are both something special, and it's amazing to see the indie or AA community pulling off this sort of stuff when we see what AAA publishers are busy with trying to rip everyone off with barely finished games. Speaking of modded Fallout, really looking forward to Fallout London releasing this Friday!
- Jason
From what I've seen and heard Valve has a 3rd party working on a fix for the bot problem and they're working on a permanent solution, finding how VAC can notice a bot hoster ban the bots and the hoster but it will take time
Heard from where?
@@UNUSUALstrangeVINTAGEgenuine Tyler McVicker he was emailing Valve employees
@@stuff9680 😬
Sometimes I wish there was an alternative to Uncle Dane. I appreciate the efforts, but those servers have random crits off, and the game for me just isn't the same without them.
That feeling you get when an enemy heavy suddenly starts shooting lasers, or a crocket whizzing by you out of nowhere is second to absolutely nothing.
Do they really have random crits off? I know people say they used to, but I heard they also used to have no random bullet spread and I swear I've seen random crits on Uncletopia lately... am I thinking of another server I played on, or was this just an old setting on Dane's servers?
Otherwise, I definitely agree with you, Valve has balanced a bunch of weapons around not being able to random crit, so if there are none at all it's a bit of a bummer. Also, whilst I don't like games entirely dictated by randomness, games that are influenced by it are made a bit more interesting in my opinion. Take D&D as the classic example. Like you say, it adds an element of unpredictable thrill.
- Jason
@@RealmSpaceGamingI'm not entirely sure, I haven't really checked up on them in a good while, but I know that they did at one point, and given Dane's personal stance on crits, I don't really expect that to have changed. Maybe it has, though.
there was someone at valve who banned around 10,000 bots
I lived in Idaho during 2016. There was no games ever available. But it’s better than it was. It’s just the damn bots. I have seen so many mods that fixes it. Valve wants it dead.
Not true the game just got an update this year.
New player of TF2 here (December 2023). TF2 was not kind to me when I first started playing- special thanks to the bot crisis. I only wanted to try it out after so long because of the Heavy is Dead meme I finally got to properly watch once I turned 18. In the state the game is in now, it saddens me, considering I was hooked immediately. I’m still able to get some pretty good casual servers every now and then, but I still feel the impact Valve has left on the game, attempting to let it indirectly die. It’s hard to have fun with these issues abound, and yes, I realize it is unbearable to code, but people still love the game- and what is Valve doing? Giving up. You know what they say, right? Never give up. We can only pray things get better, because it isn’t so far.