Finally some VP44 love, thought you guys had given up on it. 1 key point that was not mentioned fully and that was the “lower pressure” at cranking. I have seen over the years quite a few scenarios of VP44 having hard start issues or not starting due to getting too much pressure during cranking due to a aftermarket lift pump which fass/airdog normally sets them to 15PSI. The fix is to not feed the VP44 lift pump pressure during cranking so finding another signal wire that’s only live when the engine is running. I have never ran into this and all my lift pumps are hot wired to key ignition but I have read and seen plenty of videos on this odd particular problem.
@ I didn’t realize at first that you guys did an entire episode on VP44s until I looked on Spotify this morning. I will definitely watch it! Love the podcast so far, it’s been very informative.
On one of the transmission episodes will mentioned in passing that the Allison wasn’t that good. Would love to get some more elaboration on that. Obviously not a race or drag transmission but what about towing at a moderate 4 to 500 horsepower? Maybe even 600? Would love to see a video on that
I was hoping you guys would’ve touched on the subject of the high output 24v, and the vp pumps they have. From what I’ve been told they’re a different pump that got 215hp to 235hp on the high output. Or is that just an ecu thing for the fuel map they have from the factory?
👍👍 someone can correct me,but theoretically any rotary injection pump can draw it's own fuel,cause they all have a transfer pump to move fuel to the injection pump head/ case pressure or whatever..so if the fuel source isn't far away they don't need a lift pump, perhaps ..But as u explained,the 44 needs it for cooling and because the tank is a little ways away,.. I've given up on vp44's round here,...too delicate,too many issues and ecm problems,got 7100 swapped ..but anyway, thanks to you all for all your video's, wisdom,and product's 👍👍👊
I have a 99 24 valve Cummins with a vp44 original injection pump. it has 468,000 Mi on it, and it still starts up and runs. I've got a I have a fass fuel pump. It's 150, and my fuel pressure was 17 PSI
My vp44 2001 got limped off the road twice with a dead lift pump. It wasn't happy about it though. It would idle almost normal. But once I started driving it would cough and chug. I'm assuming it was starving trying to pull through a dead pump vs the vp44 pulling fuel without restriction.
@pddofficial it definitely was. The previous owner put on an aftermarket external pump that wasn't designed for diesel and it burned up. The second time I had a pump designed for diesel but water got inside it and and froze in the winter locking the motor. After that I put a fass on it and never had a problem again.
The latest revision VP's are good to ~250k miles or better. Fix those ground problems as you mention (takes a few hours of getting into wire looms) and maintain somewhere around 15psi to the VP of good, clean, lubricated fuel and they're realy reliable. My '02 is over 200k with ~130k on the replaced VP. Knock on wood it's still going strong.
99 cummins unknown if the pump is original or not but the rust scale up here in Idaho tells me it might be I don't know for sure but 337K on the truck and starts in -10 with grid heater obviously but it came with aftermarket lift pump and gauges so normal cold starts are at 15 psi. Im wondering when I go forward with this truck would you swap to common rail or go P Pump?
I guess I have to clarify I fully want some power but nothing to overpower a manual! yeah I said it I'm a manual guy ha have to say though my vp truck has way over performed my expectations its just I'm now getting a little pushback on how loud they are and considering doing common rail for that reason?
P-pump swap is easier and cheaper, Common Rail swap is easier to make more power and ultimately nicer.... unless you run questionable fuel from remote fuel stations, then p-pump all the way!!
@pddofficial millions still on the road still that's for sure and is a super common entry level to get into diesels. Love the new podcast, and the pdd 7x009s in my 01🤙🏼
I knew a guy 99 24v 6 speed 53 block and he had 570k at the time when i had also bought a 99 24v and his dad drove truck hauling timber for mills and used marvel mystery oil in every tank and little in oil, i also followed same rule and ran my 99 24v to 200k on a marvel diet then later bought an 03 and early 04 6 speed and have always ran marvel in both and one has 340k and other 376k now, 3-5k oil changes, 10-15k on the mtf, 15-20k diff fluid, varies on rest of drivetrain if in town driving for work vs towing or long distance trips but always 3-5k oil changes and fuel filter every 2 oil changes, if you have a more stock truck it may go longer even but for a 650hp daily marvel is the answer and spiriting driving atleast 1-2 times a month to clear out any crud and doing so always runs crisp
@ Works excellent, have never had any failures and fuel filters always got like a red hue like dyed diesel from the marvel but it is noticeable if you dont run it in tanks either seems like between a 1-3 mpg drop but probably only like 4-5 tanks in past 10 years have been plain lol. Eventually will see how crisp it keeps it with a PDD compound kit hahaha my stock turbo has held up somehow for yeeears now, probably all that extra lubrication from the marvel! I also always use it in gas rigs too, the 318 magnums always run better after running marvel and new plugs in it etc also great for those that let they’re rigs sit more often as seems like keeps oil from getting too thick in cold starts and have noticed less moisture every water seperator change because marvel seems to not want to attract water im guessing not sure the science on that but definitely somehow works and i dont question its abilities to keep a motor fairly healthy. Id love to see you guys try it in some racing applications just do little in oil little in fuel see if it helps the longevity! Thanks you guys for all the content, im definitely a common rail early 03-04 guy just for simplicity as a daily or work truck and it does everything and then some, with NV5600 no newer truck can touch the MPG of an older one for sure i feel. Im just running basic stuff, LDS 45% over SAC injectors, Optimal Welding SOTF 6 position tuning and some other adjustments on HP tuners which also has couple no pilot injection tunes but for this setup have had zero complaints even towing gooseneck trailer loaded up crawlers. One day need to bring my truck to PDD for some treatment!
I got a '02 24v HO 6 speed, it's a unicorn, mint clean inside and out, only 100k miles, and it's on a FASS 165 since I bought it 9 yrs ago with 79k miles when I bought it. What's causing an intermittent dead pedal after driving 50-60 miles or an hour? I'll loose my throttle pedal while driving, have to coast off the road safely, The check engine light will set, I'll turn the truck off, wait a minute or two and restart and everything's fine, throttle pedal works and is fine, I can read and verify operation in the data stream with an OBD reader. No code, stored, or active. APPS? (Accelerator pedal Position sensor) TPS (throttle Position sensor)? I want to p pump and I've started planning for that, I've started amassing random parts over the years, and am competent to do it all myself. I told myself I wouldn't test open the motor until it had at least a 100k miles. And it's taken 9 years to get there, I bought the truck with only 79k 8-9 years ago from the org owner in Denver CO, I'm in GJ! Not far from yall ! Live the podcast and all your guys videos! My favs are the 'double the old horse power' videos, and the 'parts bin' vids!
Ahh this isn't the entire episode! Doah... Is that the guy from HHK?! I love his channel! I've watched all his p pump videos at least 3 times over and over! I'm really hoping my issue isn't the VP. I'm just not ready to P pumping yet, I just don't have the parts all together or the money in the budget to do it right now. My '02 is cherry mint unicorn, one owner, well Maintained and low Low low milage. It isn't the original factory VP44, they org owner had to put none in it at like 50k or so, the stock center lift pump died and took out the oe vp44, common issue, it was done at a shop in Denver, it's got a tag on the pump, on it from some shop in Denver. When I bought the truck 9 years ago from the retired old man gramps, it had 79k on it, in have $16k cash in hand, a steal for such a clean 6 speed HO! As soon as I got it home to Gunnison on the western slope of CO, the first thing I did was put a fass on it. It's never been chipped, all stock, all org except some basic bolt ons like exhaust, banks intake, monster ram and vac pipes, stuff like that and a fass. I've never Haven't had any hiccups ever until now at 100k miles and some change. Literally today I drove from grand junction to montrose co and my throttle pedal went dead as soon as I got to montrose. I coasted off the road, shut down, waited a few mins and restarted and continued on. Tried pulling the code but there was nothing there. Restarted after a few mins and everything was fine, tps read on the data stream perfect, no issues driving. Am I in for it? Or is it something simple like a tps? Or is it something like the ECM needs rebuilt? I know that's another common issue.
I have an 01 HO 6 sp 150k miles after hours of driving on trips it will surge if I try to hold a steady rpm. Seems to be a heat related. I have owned it since 06 in that time its shut of while driving and came back to life a hand full of times. The vp 44 is original. When I bought it the Carter lift pump was dead.
Clean your battery connections and all of your grounds. There are several on these trucks. if your batteries are getting old replace them. if it still does it replace and reset your apps.
I'd love to see some oscilliscope / voltage data from a wire tap for one of these - To see if I can replicate it for my 4cyl 3.0L Patrol version. Desperately needs more fuel, and the CAN message is already maxed at 4095 (0xFFF). If anyone has info they're keen to share I'd be very happy!
In the full podcast we discuss that very question, but with the updated diaphragm, 60 psi has been tested without failure. The most we've tested long term in-house is 22 psi.
@billferris5292 I've read that to high , fuel will slip some o ring and get into engine oil. Does your oil ever smell like fuel? I'm running 12psi right now but I don't want to leave any horse power on the table
Here's a link to the full podcast! ua-cam.com/video/sB501D5tTmk/v-deo.htmlsi=5sGx9yrDuQI6EfhX
@@pddofficial thank you
Nothing sounds better than a vp44 Cummins.
Yes I love pulling up in my tractor truck sound
Facts especially if they Rev higher than stock
What you’re hearing probably has more to do with the equal length manifold than the different injection pump.
Thank you for talking about vp44s. I hope you can talk more about them!
Agreed
@@jltcasper3yes these engines are good
Very good news. These guys know their shit
DEFINITELY want to hear more about VP44 pumps.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for the suggestion!
Finally some VP44 love, thought you guys had given up on it.
1 key point that was not mentioned fully and that was the “lower pressure” at cranking. I have seen over the years quite a few scenarios of VP44 having hard start issues or not starting due to getting too much pressure during cranking due to a aftermarket lift pump which fass/airdog normally sets them to 15PSI. The fix is to not feed the VP44 lift pump pressure during cranking so finding another signal wire that’s only live when the engine is running. I have never ran into this and all my lift pumps are hot wired to key ignition but I have read and seen plenty of videos on this odd particular problem.
It is definitely worth checking, we agree too much lift pressure at startup makes them hard start!
@ I didn’t realize at first that you guys did an entire episode on VP44s until I looked on Spotify this morning.
I will definitely watch it! Love the podcast so far, it’s been very informative.
We also started another channel on UA-cam to host the full length podcasts
Love these cuts guys! Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge.
Hope it helps!
Thanks for another great video …can’t go wrong talking about vp44
We try our best to help with the 24v cummins... sometimes...
Yes very good lift pumps are a must.
They absolutely are!
On one of the transmission episodes will mentioned in passing that the Allison wasn’t that good. Would love to get some more elaboration on that. Obviously not a race or drag transmission but what about towing at a moderate 4 to 500 horsepower? Maybe even 600? Would love to see a video on that
If you don’t care if they shift fast an Allison can be dang stout. The internals on that trans are so beefy!
Next video, 48re build recipes and 68"s. Parts for each HP/torque level
very good idea
Yes
Great idea!
I was hoping you guys would’ve touched on the subject of the high output 24v, and the vp pumps they have. From what I’ve been told they’re a different pump that got 215hp to 235hp on the high output. Or is that just an ecu thing for the fuel map they have from the factory?
We did! Watch the full podcast on our podcast channel.
@ wonderful! I’ll check it out. Thank you!
👍👍 someone can correct me,but theoretically any rotary injection pump can draw it's own fuel,cause they all have a transfer pump to move fuel to the injection pump head/ case pressure or whatever..so if the fuel source isn't far away they don't need a lift pump, perhaps ..But as u explained,the 44 needs it for cooling and because the tank is a little ways away,.. I've given up on vp44's round here,...too delicate,too many issues and ecm problems,got 7100 swapped ..but anyway, thanks to you all for all your video's, wisdom,and product's 👍👍👊
Thanks for watching!
I want you guys to squeeze the absolute most power you can out of a vp truck.
Fuel-only or nitrous assisted?
@@pddofficial fuel only
Both!
We have a 340k miles with original vp44
What model year is the truck? 300k+ is great!!
I have a 99 24 valve Cummins with a vp44 original injection pump. it has 468,000 Mi on it, and it still starts up and runs. I've got a I have a fass fuel pump. It's 150, and my fuel pressure was 17 PSI
👍👍 apparently u got a good one...let 'er eat 👊
That's impressive! I'm still running the original on my 01 150k miles fass lift pump cat filters and fuel additive 30 hp tune
Sounds like a good running VP!
I only have 125 horse injectors on it. And an hx35 Billet wheel Turbo. But I do not have a tune on it. .
@@jonathanmoyer6424 👍👍👍👊
My vp44 2001 got limped off the road twice with a dead lift pump. It wasn't happy about it though. It would idle almost normal. But once I started driving it would cough and chug. I'm assuming it was starving trying to pull through a dead pump vs the vp44 pulling fuel without restriction.
Yes, it sounds like it was trying to pull through a dead pump.
@pddofficial it definitely was. The previous owner put on an aftermarket external pump that wasn't designed for diesel and it burned up. The second time I had a pump designed for diesel but water got inside it and and froze in the winter locking the motor. After that I put a fass on it and never had a problem again.
The latest revision VP's are good to ~250k miles or better. Fix those ground problems as you mention (takes a few hours of getting into wire looms) and maintain somewhere around 15psi to the VP of good, clean, lubricated fuel and they're realy reliable. My '02 is over 200k with ~130k on the replaced VP. Knock on wood it's still going strong.
Sounds like you've got a good handle on keeping that VP44 alive!
99 cummins unknown if the pump is original or not but the rust scale up here in Idaho tells me it might be I don't know for sure but 337K on the truck and starts in -10 with grid heater obviously but it came with aftermarket lift pump and gauges so normal cold starts are at 15 psi. Im wondering when I go forward with this truck would you swap to common rail or go P Pump?
I guess I have to clarify I fully want some power but nothing to overpower a manual! yeah I said it I'm a manual guy ha have to say though my vp truck has way over performed my expectations its just I'm now getting a little pushback on how loud they are and considering doing common rail for that reason?
P-pump swap is easier and cheaper, Common Rail swap is easier to make more power and ultimately nicer.... unless you run questionable fuel from remote fuel stations, then p-pump all the way!!
My vp44 would hear me having a good day and then decide to change that. 5 vp44s and a fass later, I am now a 12v guy.
12v to the Front!!!
After 5 weeks of commenting about VP44s.... I have been answered. Time to tune into the podcast and listen to the entire hour. 😂🙏🏼 Greetings from Ohio
Hopefully there's a bunch of interested listeners and viewers for the VP44 subject!
@pddofficial millions still on the road still that's for sure and is a super common entry level to get into diesels. Love the new podcast, and the pdd 7x009s in my 01🤙🏼
I've already watched it 4 times today 😅
vp44 really just a ve and a DB4 had an electronic baby.
I have a 2000 bluebird TC 2000 and it already has its second vp44 on it at 132,000 when I bought it 8 months ago. and I might need to replace it again
Man that sucks! Sorry to hear that
@pddofficial I would like to pee pump it but I don't know how that's going to affect the Allison transmission 3060 with a retarder on it.
I knew a guy 99 24v 6 speed 53 block and he had 570k at the time when i had also bought a 99 24v and his dad drove truck hauling timber for mills and used marvel mystery oil in every tank and little in oil, i also followed same rule and ran my 99 24v to 200k on a marvel diet then later bought an 03 and early 04 6 speed and have always ran marvel in both and one has 340k and other 376k now, 3-5k oil changes, 10-15k on the mtf, 15-20k diff fluid, varies on rest of drivetrain if in town driving for work vs towing or long distance trips but always 3-5k oil changes and fuel filter every 2 oil changes, if you have a more stock truck it may go longer even but for a 650hp daily marvel is the answer and spiriting driving atleast 1-2 times a month to clear out any crud and doing so always runs crisp
I’ve heard stories about that stuff for years!
@ Works excellent, have never had any failures and fuel filters always got like a red hue like dyed diesel from the marvel but it is noticeable if you dont run it in tanks either seems like between a 1-3 mpg drop but probably only like 4-5 tanks in past 10 years have been plain lol. Eventually will see how crisp it keeps it with a PDD compound kit hahaha my stock turbo has held up somehow for yeeears now, probably all that extra lubrication from the marvel! I also always use it in gas rigs too, the 318 magnums always run better after running marvel and new plugs in it etc also great for those that let they’re rigs sit more often as seems like keeps oil from getting too thick in cold starts and have noticed less moisture every water seperator change because marvel seems to not want to attract water im guessing not sure the science on that but definitely somehow works and i dont question its abilities to keep a motor fairly healthy. Id love to see you guys try it in some racing applications just do little in oil little in fuel see if it helps the longevity! Thanks you guys for all the content, im definitely a common rail early 03-04 guy just for simplicity as a daily or work truck and it does everything and then some, with NV5600 no newer truck can touch the MPG of an older one for sure i feel. Im just running basic stuff, LDS 45% over SAC injectors, Optimal Welding SOTF 6 position tuning and some other adjustments on HP tuners which also has couple no pilot injection tunes but for this setup have had zero complaints even towing gooseneck trailer loaded up crawlers. One day need to bring my truck to PDD for some treatment!
Vp44's don't like black diesel mixed up in a 55 gallon drum , by an old man🤣🤣🤣
I got a '02 24v HO 6 speed, it's a unicorn, mint clean inside and out, only 100k miles, and it's on a FASS 165 since I bought it 9 yrs ago with 79k miles when I bought it. What's causing an intermittent dead pedal after driving 50-60 miles or an hour? I'll loose my throttle pedal while driving, have to coast off the road safely, The check engine light will set, I'll turn the truck off, wait a minute or two and restart and everything's fine, throttle pedal works and is fine, I can read and verify operation in the data stream with an OBD reader. No code, stored, or active. APPS? (Accelerator pedal
Position sensor) TPS (throttle
Position sensor)?
I want to p pump and I've started planning for that, I've started amassing random parts over the years, and am competent to do it all myself. I told myself I wouldn't test open the motor until it had at least a 100k miles. And it's taken 9 years to get there, I bought the truck with only 79k 8-9 years ago from the org owner in Denver CO, I'm in GJ! Not far from yall !
Live the podcast and all your guys videos! My favs are the 'double the old horse power' videos, and the 'parts bin' vids!
Ahh this isn't the entire episode! Doah...
Is that the guy from HHK?! I love his channel! I've watched all his p pump videos at least 3 times over and over!
I'm really hoping my issue isn't the VP. I'm just not ready to P pumping yet, I just don't have the parts all together or the money in the budget to do it right now. My '02 is cherry mint unicorn, one owner, well
Maintained and low
Low low milage. It isn't the original factory VP44, they org owner had to put none in it at like 50k or so, the stock center lift pump died and took out the oe vp44, common issue, it was done at a shop in Denver, it's got a tag on the pump, on it from some shop in Denver. When I bought the truck 9 years ago from the retired old man gramps, it had 79k on it, in have $16k cash in hand, a steal for such a clean 6 speed HO! As soon as I got it home to Gunnison on the western slope of CO, the first thing I did was put a fass on it. It's never been chipped, all stock, all org except some basic bolt ons like exhaust, banks intake, monster ram and vac pipes, stuff like that and a fass. I've never Haven't had any hiccups ever until now at 100k miles and some change. Literally today I drove from grand junction to montrose co and my throttle pedal went dead as soon as I got to montrose. I coasted off the road, shut down, waited a few mins and restarted and continued on. Tried pulling the code but there was nothing there. Restarted after a few mins and everything was fine, tps read on the data stream perfect, no issues driving. Am I in for it? Or is it something simple like a tps? Or is it something like the ECM needs rebuilt? I know that's another common issue.
I have an 01 HO 6 sp 150k miles after hours of driving on trips it will surge if I try to hold a steady rpm. Seems to be a heat related. I have owned it since 06 in that time its shut of while driving and came back to life a hand full of times. The vp 44 is original. When I bought it the Carter lift pump was dead.
Clean your battery connections and all of your grounds. There are several on these trucks.
if your batteries are getting old replace them. if it still does it replace and reset your apps.
3:20 p-pump mechanical mafia superiority!
I'd love to see some oscilliscope / voltage data from a wire tap for one of these - To see if I can replicate it for my 4cyl 3.0L Patrol version. Desperately needs more fuel, and the CAN message is already maxed at 4095 (0xFFF). If anyone has info they're keen to share I'd be very happy!
Industrial applications using the 24v Cummins w/ vp44 didn’t use lift pumps…..
You are absolutely correct, most industrial applications did not use lift pumps.
How much can a vE44 handle on lift pressure? I've heard 12,20 and 15.. but who actually knows?
In the full podcast we discuss that very question, but with the updated diaphragm, 60 psi has been tested without failure. The most we've tested long term in-house is 22 psi.
I've had 22-23psi on mine (happens to be a pdd vp) for years. Since the fleece in tank first came out 5+ yr ago. Zero issues.
I've been running 20-21 with no issues, hit the key & it instantly fires.
@billferris5292 I've read that to high , fuel will slip some o ring and get into engine oil. Does your oil ever smell like fuel? I'm running 12psi right now but I don't want to leave any horse power on the table
@itsaRiot no fuel in oil smell at all, I drive 700ish miles a week so I really keep an eye on it.
VP44 failure, when the new station in town has diesel for a buck off, it's full of garbage, keep going.
Sound advice!!
I learned the hard way.