Speed Secrets: Coyote Cam Test
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- Опубліковано 8 бер 2018
- On this episode of Speed Secrets, Richard Holdener finds out what cams are worth on a Coyote motor. First he swaps the camshafts on an early Coyote engine and tests it on the engine dyno and then follows that up with a 2017 on the chassis dyno.
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If you go with cams on a coyote. You will have to add it with a CJ or BOSS also longtubes with E85. That's the only way you will feel the jump.
What should one do if you want to add a comp cam to a 2017 Ford F-150 Lariat 4x4 V8?
465 whp out of a stock ‘17? Call me crazy but those numbers seem awfully.. questionable
i was thinking the same thing. more wheel power to a gen 2 than a gen 3 makes to the crank? lol nahh
Those probably weren't SAE correction factors they used here like the OEM uses. You can make a dyno say anything you want with correction factors. What's more interesting is the difference in power on the same dyno with the same car but different parts.
Agree.
Every dyno reads differently the only thing to take away is the addition
hmm. 25hp for $2000...... naa.
It would be cool if you all did the difference in the nsr cams, thumpr cams and the cr cams for the 1st gen 2nd gen and 3rd gen coyotes. I haven't seen anyone bring the cr cams into question and I'd like to get a set of those if the power gains are substantial and more than the nsr ones. I'm in the process of building mine and was going to swap springs, but use a nsr cam until I remembered about the cr cams. I'd like to see the power numbers on the three and sure others would as well.
I just bought Cr blower cams for my 5.0. 231/237
Did you ever follow through
@@goon1874 I haven't been able to yet. I've had other things go on, but they're still in the plan.
The Coyote V8 sounds badass.
No sound clips??
Ford Australia does em with a little charger and make 600hp+ routinely...any supercharger cams for the Ford boys down here?
Normally people with a clue - and I know that immediately excludes about 99% of Ford fanboys - go with a MILDER cam for "forced induction" since you don't NEED or WANT lots of "lift" and "overlap" what with the air being "pumped" into the cylinders aka "boost" and wanting to avoid "leakage" of intake air/fuel out the exhaust during "overlap". Especially with that DOHC 4-valve "high-tech" cylinder head and dual intake valves right next to dual exhaust valves. More "lift" also takes a lot more power given the extra compression of valve springs and its harder to precisely and accurately control valve timing and operation.
Don't see many "big" cams running lots of "lift" and "duration" and "overlap" on "supercharged" diesels running up to 17:1 - 18:1 compression ratios and 40-50 psi "absolute" of boost pressure, do you? Not so much. Why not? What the hell is the point of using the fuel/power to make "boost" just to "lose" it out the exhaust or even out of the "downstream" intake valve while its going in through the "upstream intake valve" since no "twin" valves ever "see" identical flow/pressure/vacuum.
If those "Ford boys" had a clue they'd be looking for "smaller" cams and they might make be able to get more than 40% more "horsepower" out of a supercharged "high-tech" DOCH 4-valve electronically fuel-injected coil-on-plug high-compression "Coyote". Of course they'd lose "high-end horsepower" and would have to settle for "low-end torque" but since their "high rpm" engines never see that "high rpm" besides when they're sitting around revving their ricer-like engines to listen to the exhaust "backfire" and "burble" the way no real "car guy" who associates exhaust backfire on "deceleration" with shitty "tuning" and "exhaust leaks" and "wasted fuel" ever does much less enjoys, there's an excellent change that they wouldn't even notice since that extra "low-end torque" would just get them to their "happy place" in neutral in front of "onlookers" more quickly and the rest of the time with the car actually moving would do them some good.
DEEREMEYER1 How much power to you expect to gain from boost if you’re at 11-12-1CR on pump gas? The fan boys typically don’t go with cams because of the horsepower to dollar ratio. The factory cams combined with independent control of each cam is pretty good from the factory. 50 degrees + or - in .2 seconds. The LT guys need 5-10K to fix their fuel system before they think about any real boost. The coyote will match the HP of the LT5 with less boost and the same rotor pack. At the end of the day there’s still no replacement for displacement. Pushrods allow that in a engine that will fit anywhere. That being said the current coyote beats the LT 1 in hp and tq density per liter. With such hostility sounds like one of them banged your girl while your car was down for repairs.
@@stevenp3176 glorious reply, he's been in all the comment threads lol
Are they confusing wheel with crank horsepower?
Ian Hinkle if they are then ford underrated their hp specs
462hp and 411tq out of the stock cammed 2011 motor? What was done to get those numbers? I imagine long tubes, but there has to be a bit more...
Right there with you, engine dyno numbers or chassis numbers?
There was less parasitic loss since the engine was outside the car and not powering the drivetrain, also probably had an electric water pump.
@@ForcedfedFords even on an engine dyno, those motors should put down closer to the factory rating. I imagine no cats and accessory stuff, but thats still a huge gain over the 410hp stock crank rating...
4v cam swap it easy to me I done a lot camshaft replacement on 3.0 and 3.6 gm and mod engine so isn't hard at all if you technician and trained and damn that low lift cam make huge power on stock intake mainfold it all about intake valve area good we need to see fully build coyote with ported head I bet it will make 570 whp on small bore that why I love mod engine although I built alot pushrod stuff I like this episode thanks alot god bless you all 😇🤗
Spoken like a shadetree wannabe "mechanic" who hasn't worked on a "mod motor" in his life much less a "quad cam" boat anchor mod motor. There's nothing "hard" about them technically but you go bend over the front of that Mustang for a couple days and see how much of a "mechanic" you really are. Porting those ridiculous "curvy road intake port" heads has already been proved to be a giant freaking waste of time because the PORT SIZE AND "FLOW" ISN'T A "PROBLEM". It's the SEVERAL HARD "RIGHT ANGLE" TURNS THE AIR HAS TO MAKE GETTING FROM AIR FILTER TO INTAKE VALVES INCLUDING ONE WHERE IT FIRST HAS TO "CLIMB A HILL" FROM THE "BOTTOM" OF THE INTAKE MANIFOLD UP THE "PORT WALL" AND THEN GO "UP AND OVER" TO DROP DOWN THE OTHER SIDE INTO THE "INTAKE PORT" THAT IS THE "ISSUE".
LEAVE IT TO FORD TO "IMPROVE" ON THE "OLD FASHIONED" AND SMART WAY OF DOING THINGS WHERE AIR IS FLOWING IN AND OVER AND DOWN INTO THE ENGINE BY MAKING THE AIR FLOW IN AND OVER AND UP AND THEN OVER AND THEN DOWN AND THEN OVER AND THEN DOWN INTO THE ENGINE TO A PAIR OF INTAKE VALVES ONE OF WHICH IS NEVER "GETTING" MORE THAN MAYBE A QUARTER OF THE AIR THAT FINALLY GETS THERE ANYWAY AND CALL THAT AN "IMPROVEMENT".
DESPITE THE FACT THAT ITS SUPPOSEDLY "NEW" AND "HIGH-TECH" (THE "MOD MOTORS" HAVE BEEN AROUND PROBABLY LONGER THAN YOU'VE BEEN ALIVE LIKE FOR 25 YEARS OR SO AND "DOHC" WAS A GM "THING" LONG BEFORE A "FORD THING" WITH THE "QUAD FOUR" THE "COYOTE" IS BASICALLY A PAIR OF-SHARING A CRANKSHAFT) 5.0-liter DOHC 4-CAM 32-VALVE V8 MAKES "LESS POWER" THAN A "WINDSOR" 5.0-LITER 302 WITH THE SAME COMPRESSION RATIO AND A "STANDARD" PORT FUEL INJECTION MANIFOLD, FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM AND ELECTRONIC IGNITION WITH SIMILAR "CAM SPECS" WILL/WOULD AT IDENTICAL ENGINE SPEED/LOAD IF SOMEONE HAD THE BALLS TO BUILD A "COYOTE KILLER" FORD 302 AND PUT A FEW GOOD PARTS IN TO MAKE IT "LIVE" AT THE SUPPOSED "7500-8000 RPM" COYOTE MUSTANG FANBOYS ALWAYS CLAIM AND BRAG ABOUT BUT NEVER SHOW ON THE TACH OR "DYNO SHEETS".
THERE IS REALLY ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IMPRESSIVE WHATSOEVER ABOUT THE "COYOTE" OR ITS "HIGH RPM CAPABILITY" AND I GUARANTEE A STOCK ONE WON'T "LIVE" AT 8000 RPM FOR MORE THAN 5-10 SECONDS BECAUSE IT WILL PUMP ALL THE OIL TO THE TOP END AND "SUCK AIR" AND BLOW UP ABOUT TWO SECONDS LATER. EVEN "FULL" OF THE 2+ GALLONS OF OIL IT NEEDS. THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH OHC ENGINES AND ESPECIALLY CHAIN-DRIVE OHC ENGINES THAT USE ENGINE OIL FOR "TENSIONERS" AND "CAM PHASERS" AND HAVE TO HAVE 32 "LASH ADJUSTERS" AND 20 CAM BEARINGS ON THE TOP END. WAY TOO MUCH OIL DEMAND UP THERE AND IT TAKES WAY TOO LONG TO "DRAIN BACK" AND A "GEROTOR" PUMP GETS "MORE EFFICIENT" THE FASTER IT RUNS SO ITS PUMPING IS "DISPROPORTIONATE" TO ITS SPEED AND WHEN ITS FLOW EXCEEDS THE FILTER BYPASS CAPACITY TO "DUMP" EXCESS OIL BACK IN THE "SUMP" AND/OR IT STARTS "SUCKING AIR" THE END IS VERY NEAR. ALL OF THE "OIL PUMP GEAR FAILURES" ARE THE RESULT OF A "LOW OIL PRESSURE" PROBLEM CAUSING THE ENGINE/DRIVER TO "THROTTLE BACK" WITH THE VEHICLE STILL RUNNING "HARD AND FAST" AND WITH THE OIL PUMP BARELY PUMPING "AERATED" OIL AND WITH JUST ENOUGH GETTING TO THE BOTTOM END TO KEEP IT FROM "SCATTERING".
THEN WHEN THE "DRAINBACK OIL" CAME RUNNING INTO THE PAN AFTER THE CRANKCASE PRESSURE DROPPED WHEN THE BLOWBY WAS REDUCED BY LOWER ENGINE SPEED/LOAD AND THE PUMP WAS "CAVITATING" AS SOON AS IT GOT A BIG GULP OF LIQUID OIL WITH LITTLE OR NO AIR AND THE "BYPASS" WAS CLOSED AND EVERYTHING WAS "PUMPED FULL OF OIL" THAT SHOT OF OIL "HYDROLOCKED" THE PUMP AND SNAPPED THE GEARS LIKE GLASS. REALLY STUPID IDEA PUTTING A "GEROTOR" PUMP IN AN ENGINE THAT NEEDS TO LIMIT "TOP END OILING" AND SAVE EXCESS OIL FOR THE BOTTOM END, TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS ETC.
OF COURSE MY GUESS IS THAT THE OIL PUMP GEAR FAILURES "STOPPED" BECAUSE AT SOME POINT DURING "WARRANTY SERVICE" OR VIA "REMOTE DOWNLOAD" FORD "SNUCK" A "REV-LIMITER" OR SOME KIND OF "SAFETY SHUTDOWN" INTO THE "SOFTWARE" TO START "THROTTLING BACK" A "WOUND UP" ENGINE STARTING TO LOSE OIL PRESSURE A LITTLE SOONER AND A LITTLE MORE GENTLY AND NO DOUBT SOME "INTERNAL CHANGES" FOUND THEIR WAY INTO THE "NEW" COYOTES ALONG THE WAY. OR MAYBE THE SOFTWARE FOR THE TACHOMETER GOT REVISED TO SHOW "X RPM" WHEN ITS ACTUALLY A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE "LOWER" ABOVE A CERTAIN ENGINE SPEED. REGARDLESS, YOU STILL WON'T GET AND KEEP ONE OF THOSE "HIGH-TECH" SUPPOSEDLY "REV-HAPPY" ENGINES AT A LEGIT "7500-8000 RPM" FOR VERY DAMNED LONG AND THERE'S NOTHING IMPRESSIVE ABOUT A MODERN "HIGH-TECH" SMALL-DISPLACEMENT "MOD MOTOR" DOING WHAT A CHEVY "DZ302" FROM A 1ST-GEN "Z28" OR EVEN A MOPAR 340 WILL DO "RELIABLY" WHICH IS "REV TO 8000 RPM".
THE 340 WILL USUALLY THROW OFF ONE OR MORE OF ITS BELTS BUT THE DZ302 WAS LITERALLY "MADE TO SCREAM" WITH A 283 CRANK/STROKE IN A 327 BLOCK. ABOUT A 3" STROKE AND A 4" BORE (SAME AS A 350 and the '68/'69 DZ302s are "large journal" engines like "late" 327s an all 350s) and a "big" solid-lifter camshaft and the super-light lifters/valvetrain of a small-block Chevy and a dual-plane intake and dual-point distributor. Internally-balanced and only available a 4-speed manual those little "Trans Am" Chevy 302s flat-out scream and were conservatively rated at "300 hp" at way under their "redline". Hell, I had an old bone-stock (except the headers) 350 4-barrel 4-bolt main "low-compression" Chevy in a 1/2-ton pickup with a 4-speed and factory tach and just the stock HEI and nothing else "special" about it at all that in NEUTRAL would "rap" to 6500+ rpm no problem at all. If I were "brave" i probably could have bounced it off 7000 but the tach stopped at 6500.
Any healthy, strong and "well-built" STOCK Chevy big-block with anything but "peanut port" heads and with decent exhaust in NEUTRAL will "wind up" to 6500 rpm and if its "built" like the old "car motor" 454 in my '85 K30 1-ton dually 4WD with a 4-speed, NP205 and 4.56s that has about 10:1 compression and a "stout" cam and headers and a 4-barrel Edelbrock 2-0 intake (oval port heads) and a Holley 750 vacuum-secondary carb, blue pump and "dual feed" fuel log on it it'll run 6500 as long as you want and there's enough oil in the pan. Mine was built by the original owner/buddy of mine who believed in "high volume oil pumps" which are a "bad thing" on "high rpm" engines since they'll pump the pan dry pretty quick at "high rpm" so I can't run mine "for long" at 6500 but I go to truck pulls (sled pulls to some) and whip absolute ass with it going down the track at 6000 or so for 30 seconds or thereabouts in low-range 2nd gear. Above that I believe it would pump the pan dry but it doesn't have enough "snort" to run faster than that so its "safe".
Not a damned thing impressive about "7500-8000 rpm" to anybody that knows jack squat about "high performance" given the specs of a "Coyote". But Ford fanboys think its "cool" so what does that say about them?
I got a Chinese 212cc Harbor freight engine on my minibike that will rev past 9 grand with mods and only holds a half quart of oil, air cooled. It's no freakin Coyote motor tho ! lol
DEEREMEYER1 you’re so wrong on your info your breath stinks. would you like me to show you a thousand vids on these coyote engines reving at 8k rpm all day long. you’re just jealous of these little engines.
@@deeremeyer1749 😭😭😭
@@deeremeyer1749 You do know that Ford is making the new 7.3L Godzilla V8 for the 2020 Ford Super Duty.
I prefer to cam swap an LS. Coyotes are painstakingly a bitch to cam up. But, they do sound great, and it is rewarding. Great video!
Is the phasers needed on the 2015+ coyotes?
No, I have stage 3 nsr cams installed on my gt videos coming soon
Absolutely they are! Locking your phasers only kills low end power and tq but a substantial amount. Unless you’re making an enormous amount of power. Keep your phasers. People that tell you to lock your phasers don’t tune and don’t know what they are talking about
Can only imagine the power gains with the new 2018 coyote engine with its 12:1 compression
Cai headers e85 it makes 480-500whp depending on dyno and trans
These motors dont really need cams, ya they do change the RPM range and add a little power, but not like your typical pushrod motor. Theres plenty of 8 and even 7 second coyotes out there with some boost and valve springs....stock cams.... (mic drop)
It all depends on your goals and what kind of powerband you're looking for. Our Coyote valvetrain is being used in some of the fastest and highest revving Coyotes there are. The gains in the upper RPM range are proven, and along with full bolt ons (and especially with boost) the power gains are pretty respectable.
The stock 1st gen cams are pretty small, only like 211 duration @ .050. Stock 2ed gen cam specs are really hard to find but I do know they have more lift. One of these days I'll have measure my 2ed gen cams to see what they truly measure.
Leave the cams alone and get a blower. Just the little Roush blower will get you 235 crank hp with no other mods.
They should give us coyote guys and gals a break and stop charging $1500 for a set of cams and they would definitely sell more and be more popular. I would be first in line if they ever do!
If you have the "spare change" to buy one of those boat anchor "Coyotes" and then find out you need "more cam" while probably having absolutely no fucking clue whatsoever what you're getting with "more cam", you can afford to pay $1500 for those "high tech" aftermarket cams. It takes more money and time and effort to grind two pairs of perfectly matched cams than it does to grind a single cam and those things aren't nearly EXPENSIVE ENOUGH compared to an "LS cam" to make them anything but a BARGAIN at "4 cams for $1500". Especially with those fucked up cam speed sensor "reluctor lobes" machined into the back ends of them. And oh by the way, the cams are the "balance shafts" in those "Coyotes" and have "counterweights" machined into them that have to be machined "just right" even more than the lobes themselves do. Comp LS and "Hemi" cams are all in the $300-$400 range minimum and can run up to $600-$700 so what the fuck are you bitching about having to pay "full price" that's not any higher than anybody else pays for late-model "modular V8" cams and a hell of a lot less than some pay? Oh wait. You're Ford Stangbanger bitch boy. The whole world is against you and if only the whole aftermarket "performance industry" wasn't all about "Chevys" you could/would put your money where your mouth is and do a "cam swap" in your "Coyote". Yeah. Right. And its the price of the cams stopping you and not the fact that you can't/won't do the work yourself and can't/won't pay someone else to do it for you unless some other "conditions" are met with those "conditions" ever-changing as one "barrier" after another falls down in front of you.
DEEREMEYER1 damn you took that much time out of your day to write that long ass novel to complain to a “stangbanger bitch boy” about how government motors dinnosaur technology is better some how?? For fucks sake what year is it 1973? There’s advantages to certain engines that are disadvantages to others. Learn how to respect all cars how they’re built like a real car person does, especially with American cars
@@deeremeyer1749 lol wow your a hater
DEEREMEYER1 I hope you found some vagisil.
Unfortunately, manufacturing 4 billet camshafts is not cheap.... The cores aren't cheap, the manufacturing process isn't cheap... At the end of the day, people value a quality product, and that's what we produce.
On a 17 gt with ported 18 manifold 18 intake and comp cams the car should be well over 500 horse but power is all the way up top power band that’s what you want . As a daily driver having that low end torque doesn’t really matter to because while daily you just get to work what matters is you punching the gas and reving High with all that power
A bigger cam and locking out the phasers would net the most
Locking out the phasers absolutely kills your low torque. It’s been proven. You’re better off keeping the phasers unless you were making pro mod power. Lund just ran a six at 210mph at World Cup making 1800-2000hp and has phasers. If anything. Lock out your exhaust phasers but keep your intake phasers
The reality is that the engine may pull past 7,000 rpm and still make good power, yet noticing the gains after the cam swap, peak power was still made around 6k rpm, no need to keep over revving ur engine. After all Rpm is the ultimate test of an engine and most engines become increasingly inefficient as you rev past a certain point with valve train stability, cam lift, as well as head flow being the limiting factors.
Come on... What's up with this video? Are you trying to sell these things or what. What's the blower stage 2 do on a typical supercharger kit?
Yeah a cam X 4. That will get expensive real quick.
"You're a Ford guy, you're tough"
I guess that is what "Ford tough" means..... I always thought it was for the guys dealing with the 3V 5.4's LOL !
Those new Mustangs with the 5.0 do look enticing though........
You’re far better off putting that money towards boost. The gains per cost ultimately is not worth it. Unless your a dedicated race car I would highly suggest doing some research and save your money. And I keep seeing people asking about locking phasers. Unless you want to kill your low end power and tq keep them. Only reason to lock them out would be that you’re making so much power that they cannot operate correctly and I very seriously doubt the majority isn’t even close to that power level. There are factory cam cars running 6s and 7s now at 210 mph. People can say what they want to but at the end of the day your money is better off spent on other mods. By the time you buy cams and have someone else put them in for you and even if you do it yourself your spending 3500$ +. All this does is change your power band to be higher in the rpm range. And anyone changing cams would want to upgrade chains and tensioners not to mention crank sprocket and oil pump gears. These motors don’t need cams. I’m just trying to help and save you money. Do what you want but I’m only trying to save you disappointment time and money at the end of the day.
10 times better than junky LS
Then why do the coyotahs make so much less power?
35 hp lol. How much for cams and Labor 😂🤦🏻♂️
Damn slow ass gm/Mopar can't go 7s on a stock sealed engine🤣
@@1997obspsd facts
Think about the smile on your face when you pull up next to a Camaro? After you just spent $1500+ to make 25 horse? And the Camaro guy spent $300 on a cam and gained close to +150hp? lol yeah riiight... I don't think you're gonna be the one smiling
150+hp? What kinda cams are those?
@Joe FigueroaAh ok
lol, someone's salty over a little swipe at Camaro fanboys. Adding enough camshaft to a LS to gain 150hp just from the cam would cost WAY more then 300 bucks. Either that or you're starting with some clunker that makes like 300hp stock in which case you're comparing the gains of a limp truck engine with a flat cam to a mustang engine that already makes like 450hp stock. No shit its easier and cheaper to go from a soggy 300hp to 450hp then it is to go from 450hp to almost 500, especially with only 300ci. Price out what a 500hp NA 4.8L LS costs to build. Probably cheaper then a Coyote but it's still not cheap to build.
Ford guy’s are tougher. We eat camaro’s for breakfast. RRR.
Breakfast, lunch and Dinner
Eat chevys 💩 dodges
Stick that ford where the Sun don’t shine
Thats not alot of power for the money. Blows.
Adding cams to a coyote is for the guy who wants to eek out every last bit of power from the motor. The stock second gen cams support a lot of power, esp boosted, and they only cost like 300 bucks for all 4 of them from Ford, about 70 dollars a piece last time I checked.