This humanizes a group of people often mischaracterized as fallen, sinners, covenant forsakers, and apostates. I'd like to see more of these in the future.
The thoughts here apply to all aspects of society, IMHO. I find myself applying a lot of what is talked about here to a lot of aspects of my life. Just today, I was thinking how this all applies in just about every work force I have been apart of
@@sgee-vc1hzHe takes HIS views too seriously, following the example of the othe Mormon leaders who do the same... to the exclusion of reason and truth. Feels like idolatry.😣
I have never been in a religion, but find this content really interesting. I found this channel because I was watching a lot of documentaries on cults and there was an excellent Teal Swan episode on here. Then I found Zelph on the Shelf and love those guys.
Never Mormon, but grew up in Utah. I went to “Girls Camp” three times, “EFY” two times, and sacrament meeting countless times. I’ve read the Book of Mormon cover to cover. Never interested in converting, but grateful for my wonderful LDS friends, so I tagged along. Then, I went to the (early) “Young Women’s” session of GC, and I remember feeling really unnerved by what was being directed to my wonderfully diverse group of girl friends by older men (and some women). This felt similar eerie, but even more so. I love learning about theology (even went to a Jesuit university), even though I’m not particularly religious. Mormons have always seemed pretty adept at wielding a combination of genuine belief, strategically altered doctrine, and human psychology to permeate society and sometimes to devastating ends.
I was a never Mo too. Grew up around it; lots of friends and family in it. I even married a Mormon girl. I could never get past the whole “disappearing gold plates” theory.
@@G274Me that fact validated my skeptism as an early teen. I asked my RM cousin where the plates are now-"the angel took them back". Devastating to a skeptic.
I appreciated this format today. I’ve always avoided Mormon Stories, good things are not said about the show at church. So I never listened until recently. But this was great discourse. Thank you.
Why would your church support the worl here? It's the truth. So many people have been hurt by this organization. This site helps do many find a new path.
Brad’s Apology: "I’m sorry the general public caught me spewing a hateful shitty message the LDS absolutely approves of." Or: "The LDS church told me I have to say sorry because even though it's official doctrine, it's a bad look."
I'm loving the call-in format! It feels more impactful to see and hear the broad range and magnitude of response. It would be awesome to see more of these in response to big stories.
That was a fantastic podcast I hope to see more about this subject. I noticed not very many people are talking about the remark that Mrs Wilcox posted online to Gerardo about him crucifying Jesus Christ It was so more offensive to me, than even Brad's talk. It's like I believe one of the worst things you could say about somebody. I believe Jesus Christ lived and died for us. I cannot stomach what she said. She went right to the Savior and the most important thing that's ever happened to this world. Just my thoughts
I, too, was thoroughly incensed by Debi Wilcox's attack on Gerardo. I personally believe that Jesus was just a man, but he had some wonderful ideas. I still can't figure out how she equated Gerardo's comments, which were in line with the Church's line on apologizing and making amends, with crucifying Christ. She actually sounded completely unhinged.
I mentioned during the chat that I felt that she undermined any apology (sincere or otherwise) that he made. I agree it looked a little unhinged and definitely not helpful to the mormon image that they may want to portray.
Jeddyboe, relax honey. The crucifixion didn't kill Jesus, he was only hung for a few hours. He was rescued, recovered fully, and returned to India where he lived and taught until he died at the ripe old age of 80.
"Brad Wilcox week" has been one of the best week of episodes ever. Monday's was great, as was Tuesday's episode.... but this one was just awesome. It's powerful to hear the voices and see the faces of people and hear the stories of how the church affects lives as refracted through what was an unfortunately common "saying the quiet part out loud" talk by a mid-level church leader. Please do this type of live call in reaction again!
I really enjoyed this program as well. It's nice seeing so many come together to denounce something so awful. And it also serves as a powerful reminder that certain church leaders can't point the fingers of the "malcontents" at Mormon Stories. Sorry, can't pin it all on John and Kara this time, Church officials. We are ALL concerned and VERY offended!
I would really love to talk about the damaging neighborhood cycles that caused abuse of me and several others because of the purity and cover anything because of shame! I know that there was others that had the same neighborhood dynamic!!
I'm part of the raised non religious raised and I'll add raised by my two lesbian moms and they gave me the same mentality growing up as well as being misogynistic and allowed sexual abuse to happen to me while denying it and accusing me of be a liar. They also told and taught me to hate my gender. This isn't mormon specific, it's human specific and a cultural phenomenon. I do enjoy watching the content, it's broader my horizon greatly to how big this is.
@@Mik-ha-El I'm drawn to it for its symbolic truths and evolutionary compliment to our human development. I did go to church after I left home for a while. I left it because they treated my mother horrible. I still want to go back to one. I feel I could handle people like that better now then I could then.
I am sorry to hear of all the abuse and gaslighting that you suffered, Jennifer. You didn’t deserve any of it. I hope you have kind, loving people in your life now.
@@pechaa Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I do. When I turned 17 I left home and went to counseling. I had a child already. Then got married to a wonderful man that stick through the hard time of healing and we had 3 more children. I became chronically I'll from all the trauma and I'm currently at the end of healing all that went wrong health wise. From my constant effort of remaining in counseling and healing myself, I've been able to spill that healing onto my parents now and they have been working on healing and changing and learning. It been a beautiful yet hard journey. I wouldn't change it for the world because in the end, I am seeing healing from everyone around me and also spreading it to other young women in my life who have suffered hardships. Am also thrilled beyond belief that my persistent at healing is having a positive impact on my parents and love can still be found there. This is currently 26 years later.😊
This is among my favorite MS episodes, y’all. My brain, which is where I do most of my thinking, kept thinking that no official church representative would ever participate in a candid public forum like this. Not one. To paraphrase RFM, Mormonism makes liars and cowards of us all
This is among my favorite MS episodes, y’all. My brain, which is where I do most of my thinking, kept thinking that no official church representative would ever participate in a candid public forum like this. Not one. To paraphrase RFM, Mormonism makes liars and cowards of us all
I challenge Wilcox or any other of the church's senior mouthpieces to instruct the youth to read and study the Gospel Topics Essays, just like they tell them to read and study the BOM. Although they aren't perfect, these essays are about the closest the church has ever come to telling the truth publicly about the church's history, its doctrines, and Joseph Smith. I also challenge the church to instruct the missionaries to have their prospective converts read all of the essays before they can be baptized.
Yes Sam. Agreed. I would like to see them investigate the veracity of the Bible instead of just accepting the unsupported claims that it is not reliable.
@@jrtodd-br4zc Well, it is true that those essays don't come close to telling the truth about Joseph. They are still whitewashing over the worst of the history. It appears you have some serious cognitive dissonance . l once believed in Joseph. We mustn't fear to read the real history. Truth is more important than being comfortable, or loyal to anything or anyone else but Jesus...the true Biblical Jesus, not the one that Joseph made up.
Wow Ally's comment nailed it. My family has totally ghosted me since I left Mormonism. They treat other family who is in prison, better than they treat me (all because I left). Everyone uplifted me who brought their perspective. Thanks!
I'm a never mormon and currently deconstructing from the Catholic church. I love how validating John is with each caller and I loved hearing different people's stories & viewpoints.
I'm really enjoying this live call in format John! One thing about this presentation that stuck out to me is when he said "maybe you're asking the wrong question." This is reminiscent of a talk by Elder Bednar when he said something along the lines of "let me rephrase your question." When someone plays this game, it means in my mind that they either don't have a good answer to the original question, or they don't want to say the real answer to the original question out loud. Can you imagine the if the journalist from the UK that interviewed Elder Holland regarding the temple endowment putting up with one of these guys changing his question? When they change the question, it is a slick way to get out of answering a question they don't want to answer.
I’m a never Mormon from Virginia. Sometimes I feel creepy for keeping up with Mormon culture so much. I just find it so interesting and just wanted to thank you for making me feel welcome 🤗
Same here. I live all the way away in New Zealand and I don't think I've ever even met a mormon lol. I just find cults and religions fascinating. And now I really like these guys and Zelph on the Shelf.
I was glad to catch some of this while commuting and wish I could have joined the throng. A great and novel approach for participants. Would love to see this format in the evening where accessibility for participants may be even greater.
Thank you, Bek. My PTSD raged on the little girl playing sacrament. My world broke as a little girl (probably 3yo) being told by my brother that I could not heal like Jesus because I was a girl that only boys have access to miracles. I'm now 57yo and still 3yo when it comes to that.
Yup. And they actually attempt to convince us that people are not harmed by the discrimination in the church (sexism, racism, anti-LGBTQ+). I just want to hug the 3-year old you.
Mark Stoddard's comment about the manipulative speech directed toward these young people really spoke to me. After listening to Brad's speech I had a "Carah jaw drop" moment, as I thought, "Do these kids really believe this? Are they so gullible that this sounds OK to them? Or are they thinking it's a bunch of BS?" And the fact that he was answering the questions given to him with his own questions! Avoidance! Evidently this is a tactic when you can't or won't answer the question at hand. This was horrendous. Did they take this speech down as you thought they would? Thank you for this podcast. It spoke loads.
Some absolutely do believe in this wholeheartedly. I grew up in utah surrounded by LDS families (96% of the city were Mormons) and this type of speech was given at least once a month, sometimes 5 days a week if you had seminary everyday. If you walk out or don’t pay attention they will absolutely call your parents and say you are falling from the church and may become an apostate. This happened to me and I’m sure many other kids. Brad Wilcox, however, is tame to many of the men preaching to kids about the LDS church. Some were masters of manipulation and were quiet and gentle in their speech and would actually bring themselves to tears, which made many others cry or feel the spirit as they put it.Those were the dangerous ones. When this type of manipulation is all you know, it’s tough for kids -and some adults- to see through the act.
I really enjoyed this format! It's great to get to see so many cool humans that are watching and listening to MS, and very powerful to hear their voices and ideas. Echo many others to encourage an episode with never-mo's - and when doing so, please be sure to invite Randall and Holly J. back! [would also be very interesting to include some never-mo who had supported their TBM spouses but never joined, and give their perspectives.
Just catching up on the beginning. Look forward to hearing from Mike F! His take on Manufactured Shame needs to be explored. This is great! As always, thank you for keeping it about systems, not people!
@@mrsmegtaylor so good to hear! Incidentally, my daughter is taking seminary. I have not participated in anything regarding the church since long before she was born. In her own, however she participates. I support her. I will say, BW's talk gave me pause for a moment. Her father is Bosnian Muslim. It's her heritage and I cannot in good faith allow her to attend ANY thing that would undermine her father or his heritage ( we are divorced. He is a good person. I digress.. Lol). Seeing Mike F on here was very reassuring to me. While I know there are a lot of bigots in church callings/ teaching Seminary, I also know there are many, many wonderful teachers. I HOPE HER SEMINARY TEACHER IS LIKE Jeff! I appreciate Jeff's integrity. I am going to trust my daughter and let her decide for herself. Good to know there are such great people here in Idaho ( didn't realize he taught here in Idaho until just now) Jeff, thanks for loving out kids! And yourself! And yes, it will be interesting to hear what he thinks now that he no longer teaches Seminary!
Wow! the bullies are hitting themselves in the face now. Their bigotry is showing. It’s really sad to see all the pain. Stay strong everyone, and stay kind. Y’all are awesome
Great job John.💐 l have a case of PTSD from the shunning and judgment which was based upon Mormon mischaracterization if what an exmormon is. I have difficulty with listening and not getting triggered. I appreciate your " don't shoot the messenger" approach. Having said that, Brad Wilcox's messages are very disturbing to this exmo.💔😭
Another fine program. I found much of Mr. Wilcox’s address to be arrogant, manipulative, and offensive. It made me feel bad for everyday Mormon church members who I have found to be fine people. They deserve better.
I know how harmful the churches teachings are for the LGBTQ+, but I want to offer my perspective as a born, raised, married in the temple and raised my kids for 8ish years in the church- how incredibly harmful the teachings were on me. There were so many times as a youth and a young mom that I felt intense feelings of- it would be easier to commit suicide than to try to live up to the expectations put on us. I haven't even come close to listening to all the mormon stories but I think the suicidal thoughts women in the church privately battle is an important talk to be had. And it's talks like Brad Wilcox's that are basically like pouring gasoline on that fire.
I am a nevermo but my Uncle converted in the early 70’s from Catholicism to Mormonism and he and my aunt had 14 children. My mom stayed Catholic and her sister became a Jehovah’s Witness. Needless to say, family get togethers were strange. Catholicism in my home was really only practiced in before meal prayer to the blessed virgin and church on Sundays. The religion of the JW and Mormon cousins seemed to envelop every aspect of their lives. When I was 17 in 1987 I spent a summer with the Mormon family and attended with them. It was strange to me and the separation of gender was even more pronounced than Catholicism. I actually wormed my way into a priesthood meeting. My uncle sent me home after that. I am a happy apathetic agnostic (I don’t know and I don’t care). I had close relationships with my Mormon cousins. We started debating over proposition 8 and their true colors came out. They managed to temporarily convert my sister’s college age daughter while she attended the university of Hawaii and living with one of our Mormon cousins. It was shocking to us how they managed to baptize her within just a few weeks of meeting with the missionaries. It seems like there should be a lot more information given before you dunk someone in a hot tub. This has made me avoid many of my practicing cousins even though we had been very close. In third grade my dad took us to tour the Bellevue, WA temple before it was sanctified or blessed or whatever. I remember them talking about a celestial room resembling heaven and my mom remarking that heaven was full of French Provincial furniture. I have a hard time with religions that envelop themselves into the political process. I have not watched the Wilcox talk yet but I will. I do enjoy your show.
Kudos to you guys Jon Dehlin and Bill Reel for keeping your communication and comments open for discussion as I have noticed that many a Mormon church videos are closed off for ANY discussions. Aloha 🌺
As a previous stake presidency member who travelled a lot to speak to the youth in the stake, every 'repeat' talk/lesson we gave to the youth and every fireside talk was pre-approved. Maybe Brad had more leeway than this, but Im fairly certain someone in the 12 likely reviewed this a few years back before he started giving it
Re: Haleigh’s comment. Mike Tomlin, the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, once famously said that he preferred to have volunteers rather than hostages. Apparently the church is just fine with hostages. What sort of compelling message could they conceivably craft entirely without threats?
About his apology. I've heard many non-apologies before: "Sorry you feel that way (I did nothing wrong tho)" "Sorry my words came out wrong (ok, I said it bad but you don't understand or appreciate the prophet's Godshifting* here,, my thoughts were not wrong, I don't need to pay more than my shame for how bad it sounded (as if it were some accidental lewdness) ) and it goes on. What apology should be said is that, "I am sorry, the words I said were wrong, the ideas I had about priesthood are not what God is about and where I got them was wrong and I'm learning". It's halfway, apologizing for perception but not actually correcting. What needs to be done is the correction. What did he mean then? (answer from wife). What was in his heart was wrong. Which is why it's not a repentence, there's no change of "heart". I think the main difference between how Mormons think and how I think is simple. They think, "What do prophets say, that I can get away with and blame God for?" and I think "What would a truly benevolent being be like, my biases or influences aside? What might God be saying through my conscience? (and no it's not imagining God for myself, it would be with attitude of openness to receiving)." Even if one is honestly agnostic but open. The idea of personified perfect morality and ethics wouldn't be far off from what a possibly real God would expect. *When you defer all problems with moral issues to the Dean's offi...I mean God
Who is Gerardo? Someone on your show? What was said to Debbie Wilcox? What was the reason she said that back to him? How can we see this or find this ?
I tried to join the discord. The link to the thread seems to only work for people already in the server, and the invite link on the channel About Page doesn't work for me. Hope to hop on soon. I bit the bullet and registered for Thrive St. George. I was going to attend Thrive Day 2021--even registered for it--but skipped it due to anxiety. I didn't see any other Utah based Thrive events on the calendar so I figured might as well go sooner than later.
I do not agree that someone should get props for SAYING THE WORD "sorry" or "apologies". That's nonsense. If his words didn't come through "as intended" What WAS intended? This is not an apology.
Can you imagine someone translating this to Spanish in a Spanish speaking ward!!! AKWARD!!! He’s so condescending, comes out kid of fake cause he exaggerates so much… sexist!!! I could go on .. 😬
That talk was so telling of the churches positions and desperation right now. I left the church at 17 in 2017 and it's 2022 I have been out of the church officially 5yrs and in those 5.I have seen the church at it's lowest it's ever been. The youth programming is now a scare straight program. The church can not hide the crisis anymore because the crisis is front an center. Their leadership is struggling they aren't releasing membership records to be studied by scholars.A church that has always claimed its growing and is the true church .Is now a boat with holes in it which keeps sinking. I can only say this generation will definitely not stay Mormons after high school. They have seen the churches true colors.Their compelet history is available in so many places. So now there is no way to cover it up it's out in the open. And the church is delusional in thinking these talks help their cause and need to maintain members.
The youth of today are pretty tech savy, but a good old manipulator with some communication skills in a position of authority in Mormonism can still cause great deception.
No, not every apology is worthy of respect and appreciation. And no, those defending this cruel and unloving message, you don't get a pass for defending someone's hateful speech by calling others stupid.
Thank you, Lacy from Texas, for your comment about people who don’t speak up are “complicit”. It is soooo hard to be a whistleblower. But that is exactly the kind of courage we need for society to evolve and to root out such harm and bigotry from powerful institutions. Hats off to anyone who is brave enough to speak up. None of the stuff in Brad’s hateful, ignorant and manipulative speech could continue beyond even one speech, let alone decades of these speeches, if people would stand up, walk out or speak out. Thanks for bringing up that very important point.
Would love to see a episode with an adult and youth tbm, exmo, and nevermo together giving their thoughts on this talk in a round table style conversation.
This call-in style show was awesome. Do more!! I loved that there were so many different perspectives from all sorts of people. It’s almost like jam packing several episodes into one.
In regards to his comment pertaining to not wanting to LIVE without the gospel.....I remember being told a story in primary, about Joseph Smith being threatened (a gun pointed at him) if he admitted to being a Mormon. And we were taught that Joseph was honest (risked his life for the gospel), and somehow God spared his life because Joseph was willing to "lay down his life" for the one true church! Anyone else remember this story??! What's more cult-like then teaching our little ones that they should lay down their lives for their religion?! And then we make them sing songs chanting, "Follow the prophet, follow the prophet, follow the prophet! DON'T go astray."
Hi John. Been following Mormon Stories for only a few months and I really appreciate your work. I have been going back to older episodes, like this one, and trying to Cafeteria the podcast. I finally got around to watching the Brad Wilcox Alpine talk and then binging your "Brad Wilcox Week" 3 episode extravaganza and really enjoyed all the content. But I was surprised to see that there were no comments in regards to considering the audience. Where as in 2022 the % of white in the state of Utah was 87%, in Alpine it was slightly higher at 94%. But the real kicker is median household income; where as in 2022, for the state of Utah that median was around $70K, while in Alpine that Median was closer to $140K; I am NOT surprised that there were no reports of walkouts from that fireside. I believe that Bro. Wilcox was well aware of his audience and spoke to their immense privileged. Curious to hear your thought on the subject.
Does anybody else wonder why the Church seems to think that being cynical is appealing to our youth? One of the biggest turn offs for me is that Brad Wilcox seems to portray them as being lazy and mimicks interactions with them in a negative light. I am reminded of the Church’s support of Kwako ( not sure how his name is spelled) to put out insulting content as a means of appealing to the young and hip. Why do they think so little of them to think they want to be toxic, basically instead of being kind and benevolent? What is their opinion of the youth anyway? Condescending, unloving and disrespectful! So sad to see 😞
Guaranteed that people said something about this over the years, but it either fell on deaf ears, they were shamed for it, or got reprimanded for it. Guaranteed.
We certainly reached a time where the confluence of technology capability and meme-ifycation, and the viral method of information spread that this resulted in a perfect storm. Spizzerinctum is the word! www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spizzerinctum Which is now the official word: np.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/spedgk/spizzerinctum_is_the_word_the_word_is_the_bird/
I’m also a nevermo and really enjoy your podcast. I was raised evangelical so experienced somewhat similar manipulation and oppression and I first learned of lds church on 6 yr mission in Nicaragua with my parents. Then I found an ex lds UA-camr via his UA-cam collaborations with God is Grey, a former evangelical and saw the problems with lds church. And that led me to find your channel. Been watching dozens if not hundreds of your videos
You said you’re gaining 2,000 subscribers a month. Well, In the last two weeks alone you’ve gained nearly 5000. As a never Mormon, keep up the great work!
I loved this format. The callers were so thoughtful, engaging, and insightful. Dehlin and team are continuing to build a wonderful community around Mormon stories across the spectrum of belief and the wider world of us NeverMos. I encourage John D and the @Mormon Stories Podcast team to add this to the growing line-up of programming. Maybe once or twice a month? Following up on topics discussed by guests like John Larsen and Simon Southerton as well as this sort of breaking news topic? Thank you and keep up the great work. Proud to be a monthly donor. Please join me fellow listeners. This work takes a lot of time and resources.
I think what happened was that Discord invite links are only valid for a limited time, so when the link was posted and I clicked on it, the link already expired. I checked this by copying the URL to my Discord. In any case, glad that you have a Discord server now! Thanks for replying.
Wow. Randall brought forth so much insight as to why I watch these stories. As someone never religious, I couldn't put my finger on why I find Mormon Stories so compelling. It's transparently obvious to me all religions are invented by men to steal power and resource from others. But LDS church has to defend itself like no other because its foundational stories (lies) are so recent and so testable and so fucking ridiculous. Maybe scientology is comparable, but not in its scale. I'm amazed by the window into the HUMAN EXPERIENCE these stories bring forth. Keep up the great work John et al!
Some years ago, my son and his non-member wife drove 1000 miles to attend the wedding of one of my other sons in a Utah temple. Of course, they could not attend inside because my daughter-in-law is Methodist. However, they had made the effort and were on the temple grounds before and during the wedding. The grandfather of my daughter-in-law was the Temple President. His remark to my son and daughter-in-law prior to the party entering the temple for the sealing was, "It's too bad your're all dressed up with nowhere to go," clearly implying that they were second rate because they could not go inside the temple. My son and daughter-in-law were taken aback at the rudeness and insensitivity of this man, and tried to ignore his remark so as not to spoil the wedding and reception. Evidently, Wilcox is of the same cut of cloth of self-righteous asses that think no one outside the Mormon church is any good or is simply "playing church." Do they not know how offensive their stance is to people of other faiths? The arrogance is palpable. In a way I hope more of them go public. The Bible belt churchgoers will certainly kick the missionaries off the front porch. Hopefully such asshattery will also be discovered by LDS youth and aid them in exiting this ridiculous organization. There certainly is a great deal of real joy and happiness outside this religion.
I especially appreciated Ally’s comments about how parents will feel justified in condemning/disowning/shunning their children because of the narrative that Wilcox is perpetuating.
Hey was there follow up on the Black man who said he's willing to come on and tell his story? At BYU my friend was told she shouldn't date white guys. Yeah it was around 20 years ago but it still happened to people who are alive today and who are relatively young. I think people really need to hear how it personally affected/affects people who are alive today.
I was upfront told I can only date black LDS men. Thing is I am mixed race, and racism wasn't a part of my daily life. It was weird to see it in singles ward especially. Very potent change to my sense of belonging, and sense of my personal stock plummeting. My dad left the church, shortly after so did I. Many times during singles ward activities I would be pulled aside and asked to mop, clean, sanitize toilets. Could have been my ward, but I barely got to participate in any classes, studies, or actual spiritual time. I was there 3 days a week, just cleaning. I wanted to be in classes, firesides, etc and never got the chance.
John, great job with an intimidating, on-the-spot format. It was incredibly moving to hear impact statements from so many. Well done. And OMG that moonwalk was amazing! 🤩 Just don't mention MJ again because everything that reminds me of him is literally ruined now. 😭
I really love and appreciate all you are doing John and your team as well. As a person of color, I would love to see and hear more from other people of color in episodes such as this. Mostly, it was white folks who were speaking and I understand that that could be the majority of the people who called in but I think that would be important to allow those voices to come on and share their experiences, and stories.
NeverMo here, for years my only real knowledge of LDS comes from my RLDS friend who has said things about Brigham Young that would make most ExMos blush, with idiot, usurper and murderer being some of the nicer terms he uses. Through him he introduced me to some of his LDS contacts, and I found my way to your channel and other ExMo channels to educate myself before debating with them. After dealing with RLDS, who are very much just eccentric protestants, nd bouncing that off of my own Calvinist position, I've developed a unique perspective when it comes to Mormonism, especially since so many Mormons I've met online via my RLDS friend have informed me how evil my theology and worldview is.
This humanizes a group of people often mischaracterized as fallen, sinners, covenant forsakers, and apostates. I'd like to see more of these in the future.
Agree!
@@thisidahomomreports Agree.❤
I am in the Never Mormon crowd that watches/listens to this show “religiously.” It’s so interesting. Thank you Randall for calling in.
The thoughts here apply to all aspects of society, IMHO. I find myself applying a lot of what is talked about here to a lot of aspects of my life. Just today, I was thinking how this all applies in just about every work force I have been apart of
Like most LDS Church leaders, Wilcox takes his anti-Bible, anti-Christian views very seriously......
@@sgee-vc1hz 😆VERY SERIOUSLY, INDEED! Lol
@@sgee-vc1hzHe takes HIS views too seriously, following the example of the othe Mormon leaders who do the same... to the exclusion of reason and truth. Feels like idolatry.😣
I have never been in a religion, but find this content really interesting. I found this channel because I was watching a lot of documentaries on cults and there was an excellent Teal Swan episode on here. Then I found Zelph on the Shelf and love those guys.
Huge Congrats from Rhode Island, another never-Mormon and proud supporter of those of us who have clawed our way out of high demand religions. 👍👍👍
Thx for the support🥰🥰
Never Mormon, but grew up in Utah. I went to “Girls Camp” three times, “EFY” two times, and sacrament meeting countless times. I’ve read the Book of Mormon cover to cover. Never interested in converting, but grateful for my wonderful LDS friends, so I tagged along. Then, I went to the (early) “Young Women’s” session of GC, and I remember feeling really unnerved by what was being directed to my wonderfully diverse group of girl friends by older men (and some women). This felt similar eerie, but even more so.
I love learning about theology (even went to a Jesuit university), even though I’m not particularly religious. Mormons have always seemed pretty adept at wielding a combination of genuine belief, strategically altered doctrine, and human psychology to permeate society and sometimes to devastating ends.
Well said! Great obsevation!
Nice I like it
It’s strange that you love theology but aren’t religious. How does that happen? Did you study early Christian history?
I was a never Mo too. Grew up around it; lots of friends and family in it. I even married a Mormon girl. I could never get past the whole “disappearing gold plates” theory.
@@G274Me that fact validated my skeptism as an early teen. I asked my RM cousin where the plates are now-"the angel took them back". Devastating to a skeptic.
I appreciated this format today. I’ve always avoided Mormon Stories, good things are not said about the show at church. So I never listened until recently. But this was great discourse. Thank you.
Why would your church support the worl here? It's the truth. So many people have been hurt by this organization. This site helps do many find a new path.
Just keep on listening to Mormon Story Podcasts and will be happy at best.
Blessings to Maui
Brad’s Apology: "I’m sorry the general public caught me spewing a hateful shitty message the LDS absolutely approves of."
Or: "The LDS church told me I have to say sorry because even though it's official doctrine, it's a bad look."
People took dump in toilet got more done Alpine conference
Brad might like to think the LDS approve of his nonsense, but I suspect he will be fired for his out of line rantings by the president of his church.
If he’s fired, it will be for optics: it’s a bad look, not because they disapprove of his message which he’s been giving for years.
Exactly!
Brad's apology: "I am sorry that I am a racist, sexists and stupid jackass. Please forgive me."
This conversation was so great, I didn't want it to end! Thanks to everyone for contributing your voices!
I'm loving the call-in format! It feels more impactful to see and hear the broad range and magnitude of response. It would be awesome to see more of these in response to big stories.
That was a fantastic podcast I hope to see more about this subject. I noticed not very many people are talking about the remark that Mrs Wilcox posted online to Gerardo about him crucifying Jesus Christ
It was so more offensive to me, than even Brad's talk. It's like I believe one of the worst things you could say about somebody. I believe Jesus Christ lived and died for us. I cannot stomach what she said. She went right to the Savior and the most important thing that's ever happened to this world. Just my thoughts
I, too, was thoroughly incensed by Debi Wilcox's attack on Gerardo. I personally believe that Jesus was just a man, but he had some wonderful ideas. I still can't figure out how she equated Gerardo's comments, which were in line with the Church's line on apologizing and making amends, with crucifying Christ. She actually sounded completely unhinged.
💯💯💯
I mentioned during the chat that I felt that she undermined any apology (sincere or otherwise) that he made. I agree it looked a little unhinged and definitely not helpful to the mormon image that they may want to portray.
I really agree
Jeddyboe, relax honey. The crucifixion didn't kill Jesus, he was only hung for a few hours. He was rescued, recovered fully, and returned to India where he lived and taught until he died at the ripe old age of 80.
"Brad Wilcox week" has been one of the best week of episodes ever. Monday's was great, as was Tuesday's episode.... but this one was just awesome. It's powerful to hear the voices and see the faces of people and hear the stories of how the church affects lives as refracted through what was an unfortunately common "saying the quiet part out loud" talk by a mid-level church leader. Please do this type of live call in reaction again!
I really enjoyed this program as well. It's nice seeing so many come together to denounce something so awful. And it also serves as a powerful reminder that certain church leaders can't point the fingers of the "malcontents" at Mormon Stories. Sorry, can't pin it all on John and Kara this time, Church officials. We are ALL concerned and VERY offended!
I would really love to talk about the damaging neighborhood cycles that caused abuse of me and several others because of the purity and cover anything because of shame! I know that there was others that had the same neighborhood dynamic!!
This was a lot of fun to hear so many voices!
I'm part of the raised non religious raised and I'll add raised by my two lesbian moms and they gave me the same mentality growing up as well as being misogynistic and allowed sexual abuse to happen to me while denying it and accusing me of be a liar. They also told and taught me to hate my gender. This isn't mormon specific, it's human specific and a cultural phenomenon. I do enjoy watching the content, it's broader my horizon greatly to how big this is.
So, coming from your background, how do you feel about Christianity?
@@Mik-ha-El I'm drawn to it for its symbolic truths and evolutionary compliment to our human development. I did go to church after I left home for a while. I left it because they treated my mother horrible. I still want to go back to one. I feel I could handle people like that better now then I could then.
I am sorry to hear of all the abuse and gaslighting that you suffered, Jennifer. You didn’t deserve any of it. I hope you have kind, loving people in your life now.
@@pechaa Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I do. When I turned 17 I left home and went to counseling. I had a child already. Then got married to a wonderful man that stick through the hard time of healing and we had 3 more children. I became chronically I'll from all the trauma and I'm currently at the end of healing all that went wrong health wise. From my constant effort of remaining in counseling and healing myself, I've been able to spill that healing onto my parents now and they have been working on healing and changing and learning. It been a beautiful yet hard journey. I wouldn't change it for the world because in the end, I am seeing healing from everyone around me and also spreading it to other young women in my life who have suffered hardships. Am also thrilled beyond belief that my persistent at healing is having a positive impact on my parents and love can still be found there. This is currently 26 years later.😊
This is among my favorite MS episodes, y’all. My brain, which is where I do most of my thinking, kept thinking that no official church representative would ever participate in a candid public forum like this. Not one. To paraphrase RFM, Mormonism makes liars and cowards of us all
This was a great experiment and I enjoyed the diverse views from all around the world. Nice group of listeners
It is a nice group!
This is among my favorite MS episodes, y’all. My brain, which is where I do most of my thinking, kept thinking that no official church representative would ever participate in a candid public forum like this. Not one. To paraphrase RFM, Mormonism makes liars and cowards of us all
I challenge Wilcox or any other of the church's senior mouthpieces to instruct the youth to read and study the Gospel Topics Essays, just like they tell them to read and study the BOM. Although they aren't perfect, these essays are about the closest the church has ever come to telling the truth publicly about the church's history, its doctrines, and Joseph Smith. I also challenge the church to instruct the missionaries to have their prospective converts read all of the essays before they can be baptized.
Yes Sam. Agreed. I would like to see them investigate the veracity of the Bible instead of just accepting the unsupported claims that it is not reliable.
Those essays don’t come close to telling the truth about Joseph. It’s more lies upon lies.
@@jrtodd-br4zc Well, it is true that those essays don't come close to telling the truth about Joseph. They are still whitewashing over the worst of the history. It appears you have some serious cognitive dissonance . l once believed in Joseph. We mustn't fear to read the real history. Truth is more important than being comfortable, or loyal to anything or anyone else but Jesus...the true Biblical Jesus, not the one that Joseph made up.
I was wondering why anyone who hears a broken printer story frequently would make a printer available for students to use. Total no-brainer!
This is the best. 😆 Seriously!! Also, it is a law of physics almost guaranteed that your printer will not work when you are facing a deadline
Randall’s comments were great. Would love to hear his views on Mormonism much more.
Totally agree.
Yes please have him on!!!!
Wow Ally's comment nailed it. My family has totally ghosted me since I left Mormonism. They treat other family who is in prison, better than they treat me (all because I left).
Everyone uplifted me who brought their perspective. Thanks!
PLEASE do more shows like this! Like weekly! We can have a topic and all call in, what a great support group!
I'm a never mormon and currently deconstructing from the Catholic church. I love how validating John is with each caller and I loved hearing different people's stories & viewpoints.
I'm really enjoying this live call in format John! One thing about this presentation that stuck out to me is when he said "maybe you're asking the wrong question." This is reminiscent of a talk by Elder Bednar when he said something along the lines of "let me rephrase your question." When someone plays this game, it means in my mind that they either don't have a good answer to the original question, or they don't want to say the real answer to the original question out loud. Can you imagine the if the journalist from the UK that interviewed Elder Holland regarding the temple endowment putting up with one of these guys changing his question? When they change the question, it is a slick way to get out of answering a question they don't want to answer.
I really enjoyed this format and would love to see (some but not all) future episodes feature live call-ins.
I’m a never Mormon from Virginia. Sometimes I feel creepy for keeping up with Mormon culture so much. I just find it so interesting and just wanted to thank you for making me feel welcome 🤗
They should mention that Jesus tried to return to America, but Mike Lee asked Trump to return him to Mexico!
Same here. I live all the way away in New Zealand and I don't think I've ever even met a mormon lol. I just find cults and religions fascinating. And now I really like these guys and Zelph on the Shelf.
Congrats on 50,000!!
I was glad to catch some of this while commuting and wish I could have joined the throng. A great and novel approach for participants. Would love to see this format in the evening where accessibility for participants may be even greater.
Absolutely loved the call-ins. A lot of great voices and perspectives, and a really fun change to the usual (but still wonderful) single interview.
Never mo here and I listen all the time; really liked Randall’s take, also!
Thank you, Bek. My PTSD raged on the little girl playing sacrament. My world broke as a little girl (probably 3yo) being told by my brother that I could not heal like Jesus because I was a girl that only boys have access to miracles. I'm now 57yo and still 3yo when it comes to that.
Yup. And they actually attempt to convince us that people are not harmed by the discrimination in the church (sexism, racism, anti-LGBTQ+). I just want to hug the 3-year old you.
Love this format! Would love more of this style
Edit: it’s cool to hear so many different perspectives
Mark Stoddard's comment about the manipulative speech directed toward these young people really spoke to me. After listening to Brad's speech I had a "Carah jaw drop" moment, as I thought, "Do these kids really believe this? Are they so gullible that this sounds OK to them? Or are they thinking it's a bunch of BS?" And the fact that he was answering the questions given to him with his own questions! Avoidance! Evidently this is a tactic when you can't or won't answer the question at hand. This was horrendous. Did they take this speech down as you thought they would? Thank you for this podcast. It spoke loads.
Some absolutely do believe in this wholeheartedly. I grew up in utah surrounded by LDS families (96% of the city were Mormons) and this type of speech was given at least once a month, sometimes 5 days a week if you had seminary everyday. If you walk out or don’t pay attention they will absolutely call your parents and say you are falling from the church and may become an apostate. This happened to me and I’m sure many other kids. Brad Wilcox, however, is tame to many of the men preaching to kids about the LDS church. Some were masters of manipulation and were quiet and gentle in their speech and would actually bring themselves to tears, which made many others cry or feel the spirit as they put it.Those were the dangerous ones. When this type of manipulation is all you know, it’s tough for kids -and some adults- to see through the act.
I really enjoyed this format! It's great to get to see so many cool humans that are watching and listening to MS, and very powerful to hear their voices and ideas. Echo many others to encourage an episode with never-mo's - and when doing so, please be sure to invite Randall and Holly J. back! [would also be very interesting to include some never-mo who had supported their TBM spouses but never joined, and give their perspectives.
Just catching up on the beginning. Look forward to hearing from Mike F! His take on Manufactured Shame needs to be explored. This is great! As always, thank you for keeping it about systems, not people!
I agree! He was my seminary teacher and I would really like to understand his views now vs what I was taught years ago being his student.
@@mrsmegtaylor so good to hear! Incidentally, my daughter is taking seminary. I have not participated in anything regarding the church since long before she was born. In her own, however she participates. I support her. I will say, BW's talk gave me pause for a moment. Her father is Bosnian Muslim. It's her heritage and I cannot in good faith allow her to attend ANY thing that would undermine her father or his heritage ( we are divorced. He is a good person. I digress.. Lol).
Seeing Mike F on here was very reassuring to me. While I know there are a lot of bigots in church callings/ teaching Seminary, I also know there are many, many wonderful teachers. I HOPE HER SEMINARY TEACHER IS LIKE Jeff! I appreciate Jeff's integrity. I am going to trust my daughter and let her decide for herself. Good to know there are such great people here in Idaho ( didn't realize he taught here in Idaho until just now) Jeff, thanks for loving out kids! And yourself!
And yes, it will be interesting to hear what he thinks now that he no longer teaches Seminary!
Wow! the bullies are hitting themselves in the face now. Their bigotry is showing. It’s really sad to see all the pain. Stay strong everyone, and stay kind. Y’all are awesome
Great job John.💐 l have a case of PTSD from the shunning and judgment which was based upon Mormon mischaracterization if what an exmormon is. I have difficulty with listening and not getting triggered. I appreciate your " don't shoot the messenger" approach. Having said that, Brad Wilcox's messages are very disturbing to this exmo.💔😭
@cc omgosh, I had never thought of any of this as SHUNNING- but that is exactly what it is!! Very well 👏 said!
@@thisidahomomreports ❤
Maybe the new game plan for The Church is to lean into what makes people leave - then divvy up all of the tithing money amongst the last men standing.
😂
I loved this format!! Please do more of these!
Another fine program. I found much of Mr. Wilcox’s address to be arrogant, manipulative, and offensive. It made me feel bad for everyday Mormon church members who I have found to be fine people. They deserve better.
I know how harmful the churches teachings are for the LGBTQ+, but I want to offer my perspective as a born, raised, married in the temple and raised my kids for 8ish years in the church- how incredibly harmful the teachings were on me. There were so many times as a youth and a young mom that I felt intense feelings of- it would be easier to commit suicide than to try to live up to the expectations put on us. I haven't even come close to listening to all the mormon stories but I think the suicidal thoughts women in the church privately battle is an important talk to be had. And it's talks like Brad Wilcox's that are basically like pouring gasoline on that fire.
💯💯💯
I'm so sad to hear of your struggles, I have struggled with those thoughts too. My heart goes out to you and we deserve SO MUCH BETTER.
I’m so so sorry Tiffany.
I am a nevermo but my Uncle converted in the early 70’s from Catholicism to Mormonism and he and my aunt had 14 children. My mom stayed Catholic and her sister became a Jehovah’s Witness. Needless to say, family get togethers were strange. Catholicism in my home was really only practiced in before meal prayer to the blessed virgin and church on Sundays. The religion of the JW and Mormon cousins seemed to envelop every aspect of their lives. When I was 17 in 1987 I spent a summer with the Mormon family and attended with them. It was strange to me and the separation of gender was even more pronounced than Catholicism. I actually wormed my way into a priesthood meeting. My uncle sent me home after that. I am a happy apathetic agnostic (I don’t know and I don’t care). I had close relationships with my Mormon cousins. We started debating over proposition 8 and their true colors came out. They managed to temporarily convert my sister’s college age daughter while she attended the university of Hawaii and living with one of our Mormon cousins. It was shocking to us how they managed to baptize her within just a few weeks of meeting with the missionaries. It seems like there should be a lot more information given before you dunk someone in a hot tub. This has made me avoid many of my practicing cousins even though we had been very close. In third grade my dad took us to tour the Bellevue, WA temple before it was sanctified or blessed or whatever. I remember them talking about a celestial room resembling heaven and my mom remarking that heaven was full of French Provincial furniture. I have a hard time with religions that envelop themselves into the political process. I have not watched the Wilcox talk yet but I will. I do enjoy your show.
Kudos to you guys Jon Dehlin and Bill Reel for keeping your communication and comments open for discussion as I have noticed that many a Mormon church videos are closed off for ANY discussions.
Aloha 🌺
As a previous stake presidency member who travelled a lot to speak to the youth in the stake, every 'repeat' talk/lesson we gave to the youth and every fireside talk was pre-approved. Maybe Brad had more leeway than this, but Im fairly certain someone in the 12 likely reviewed this a few years back before he started giving it
Re: Haleigh’s comment. Mike Tomlin, the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, once famously said that he preferred to have volunteers rather than hostages. Apparently the church is just fine with hostages. What sort of compelling message could they conceivably craft entirely without threats?
Anyone else having trouble getting the discord link to work?
It did not work for me either.
About his apology. I've heard many non-apologies before:
"Sorry you feel that way (I did nothing wrong tho)"
"Sorry my words came out wrong (ok, I said it bad but you don't understand or appreciate the prophet's Godshifting* here,, my thoughts were not wrong, I don't need to pay more than my shame for how bad it sounded (as if it were some accidental lewdness) )
and it goes on. What apology should be said is that, "I am sorry, the words I said were wrong, the ideas I had about priesthood are not what God is about and where I got them was wrong and I'm learning". It's halfway, apologizing for perception but not actually correcting. What needs to be done is the correction. What did he mean then? (answer from wife). What was in his heart was wrong. Which is why it's not a repentence, there's no change of "heart".
I think the main difference between how Mormons think and how I think is simple. They think, "What do prophets say, that I can get away with and blame God for?" and I think "What would a truly benevolent being be like, my biases or influences aside? What might God be saying through my conscience? (and no it's not imagining God for myself, it would be with attitude of openness to receiving)." Even if one is honestly agnostic but open. The idea of personified perfect morality and ethics wouldn't be far off from what a possibly real God would expect.
*When you defer all problems with moral issues to the Dean's offi...I mean God
Sphincterinktum: personality that causes increased sphincter clinching while listening😆
I really like Mike’s assessments, fair and honest.
Do you have a PO Box that someone can mail in a donation? I really like this call in show!
Yes!
PO Box 171085
Salt Lake City, UT 84117
Oh Goody! Thank you for your PO BOX!
Who is Gerardo? Someone on your show? What was said to Debbie Wilcox? What was the reason she said that back to him? How can we see this or find this ?
Loved that you brought in others. That was great
Where can I find this video telling members not to give inheritance to apostates?
I heard it in person that it should be given to Church, or next available relative.
I tried to join the discord. The link to the thread seems to only work for people already in the server, and the invite link on the channel About Page doesn't work for me. Hope to hop on soon. I bit the bullet and registered for Thrive St. George. I was going to attend Thrive Day 2021--even registered for it--but skipped it due to anxiety. I didn't see any other Utah based Thrive events on the calendar so I figured might as well go sooner than later.
I do not agree that someone should get props for SAYING THE WORD "sorry" or "apologies". That's nonsense. If his words didn't come through "as intended" What WAS intended? This is not an apology.
Can you imagine someone translating this to Spanish in a Spanish speaking ward!!! AKWARD!!!
He’s so condescending, comes out kid of fake cause he exaggerates so much… sexist!!! I could go on .. 😬
That talk was so telling of the churches positions and desperation right now. I left the church at 17 in 2017 and it's 2022 I have been out of the church officially 5yrs and in those 5.I have seen the church at it's lowest it's ever been. The youth programming is now a scare straight program. The church can not hide the crisis anymore because the crisis is front an center. Their leadership is struggling they aren't releasing membership records to be studied by scholars.A church that has always claimed its growing and is the true church .Is now a boat with holes in it which keeps sinking. I can only say this generation will definitely not stay Mormons after high school. They have seen the churches true colors.Their compelet history is available in so many places. So now there is no way to cover it up it's out in the open. And the church is delusional in thinking these talks help their cause and need to maintain members.
Randall a boss with his breakdown
Congratulations on exceeding 50,000 subscribers!🎉👏
Kate made a very good point, the youth in this day and age are a lot more keen than we were 30 40, 50 years ago.
The youth of today are pretty tech savy, but a good old manipulator with some communication skills in a position of authority in Mormonism can still cause great deception.
No, not every apology is worthy of respect and appreciation. And no, those defending this cruel and unloving message, you don't get a pass for defending someone's hateful speech by calling others stupid.
Thank you, Lacy from Texas, for your comment about people who don’t speak up are “complicit”. It is soooo hard to be a whistleblower. But that is exactly the kind of courage we need for society to evolve and to root out such harm and bigotry from powerful institutions. Hats off to anyone who is brave enough to speak up. None of the stuff in Brad’s hateful, ignorant and manipulative speech could continue beyond even one speech, let alone decades of these speeches, if people would stand up, walk out or speak out. Thanks for bringing up that very important point.
Would love to see a episode with an adult and youth tbm, exmo, and nevermo together giving their thoughts on this talk in a round table style conversation.
This call-in style show was awesome. Do more!! I loved that there were so many different perspectives from all sorts of people. It’s almost like jam packing several episodes into one.
In regards to his comment pertaining to not wanting to LIVE without the gospel.....I remember being told a story in primary, about Joseph Smith being threatened (a gun pointed at him) if he admitted to being a Mormon. And we were taught that Joseph was honest (risked his life for the gospel), and somehow God spared his life because Joseph was willing to "lay down his life" for the one true church! Anyone else remember this story??! What's more cult-like then teaching our little ones that they should lay down their lives for their religion?! And then we make them sing songs chanting, "Follow the prophet, follow the prophet, follow the prophet! DON'T go astray."
Hi John. Been following Mormon Stories for only a few months and I really appreciate your work. I have been going back to older episodes, like this one, and trying to Cafeteria the podcast. I finally got around to watching the Brad Wilcox Alpine talk and then binging your "Brad Wilcox Week" 3 episode extravaganza and really enjoyed all the content. But I was surprised to see that there were no comments in regards to considering the audience. Where as in 2022 the % of white in the state of Utah was 87%, in Alpine it was slightly higher at 94%. But the real kicker is median household income; where as in 2022, for the state of Utah that median was around $70K, while in Alpine that Median was closer to $140K; I am NOT surprised that there were no reports of walkouts from that fireside. I believe that Bro. Wilcox was well aware of his audience and spoke to their immense privileged. Curious to hear your thought on the subject.
Great points @Eddie Palomino !!! So glad you are joining us!!!
They are ALL narcissists. They could be clinically detained. They should be put on trial.
John, keep these open and very honest dialogues going. I think the data will support this recommendation. Great format!!!
I was subscriber 777😂😂😂
This man I relate too. Not a Mormon but fascinated by it. As well as JW and Scientology.
Does anybody else wonder why the Church seems to think that being cynical is appealing to our youth? One of the biggest turn offs for me is that Brad Wilcox seems to portray them as being lazy and mimicks interactions with them in a negative light. I am reminded of the Church’s support of Kwako ( not sure how his name is spelled) to put out insulting content as a means of appealing to the young and hip. Why do they think so little of them to think they want to be toxic, basically instead of being kind and benevolent? What is their opinion of the youth anyway? Condescending, unloving and disrespectful! So sad to see 😞
More of this, please!
Let’s hear more from Randall. 👍
Guaranteed that people said something about this over the years, but it either fell on deaf ears, they were shamed for it, or got reprimanded for it. Guaranteed.
We certainly reached a time where the confluence of technology capability and meme-ifycation, and the viral method of information spread that this resulted in a perfect storm. Spizzerinctum is the word! www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spizzerinctum
Which is now the official word: np.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/spedgk/spizzerinctum_is_the_word_the_word_is_the_bird/
I can't wait for the next huge mistake Mormons make. Keep them coming. This is fun!
Give them less than 24 hours and they will surely say something stupid
Ally's comments need an entire episode.
I’m also a nevermo and really enjoy your podcast. I was raised evangelical so experienced somewhat similar manipulation and oppression and I first learned of lds church on 6 yr mission in Nicaragua with my parents. Then I found an ex lds UA-camr via his UA-cam collaborations with God is Grey, a former evangelical and saw the problems with lds church. And that led me to find your channel. Been watching dozens if not hundreds of your videos
You said you’re gaining 2,000 subscribers a month. Well, In the last two weeks alone you’ve gained nearly 5000. As a never Mormon, keep up the great work!
I loved this format. The callers were so thoughtful, engaging, and insightful. Dehlin and team are continuing to build a wonderful community around Mormon stories across the spectrum of belief and the wider world of us NeverMos. I encourage John D and the @Mormon Stories Podcast team to add this to the growing line-up of programming. Maybe once or twice a month? Following up on topics discussed by guests like John Larsen and Simon Southerton as well as this sort of breaking news topic?
Thank you and keep up the great work. Proud to be a monthly donor. Please join me fellow listeners. This work takes a lot of time and resources.
I want to hear Randall’s story 😊
Technical note: I was trying to join the Discord server through the link on your About page, but I got an error saying that the invite link. Thanks!
...the invite link has expired, sorry.
So sorry Renato!
That’s fine, I’ll check the link again.
I think what happened was that Discord invite links are only valid for a limited time, so when the link was posted and I clicked on it, the link already expired. I checked this by copying the URL to my Discord. In any case, glad that you have a Discord server now! Thanks for replying.
Woohoo, and congrats on 50000!! 🙌🎊📈- love from Australia 🇦🇺
It was awesome, John!
Wow. Randall brought forth so much insight as to why I watch these stories. As someone never religious, I couldn't put my finger on why I find Mormon Stories so compelling.
It's transparently obvious to me all religions are invented by men to steal power and resource from others. But LDS church has to defend itself like no other because its foundational stories (lies) are so recent and so testable and so fucking ridiculous. Maybe scientology is comparable, but not in its scale.
I'm amazed by the window into the HUMAN EXPERIENCE these stories bring forth. Keep up the great work John et al!
Some years ago, my son and his non-member wife drove 1000 miles to attend the wedding of one of my other sons in a Utah temple. Of course, they could not attend inside because my daughter-in-law is Methodist. However, they had made the effort and were on the temple grounds before and during the wedding. The grandfather of my daughter-in-law was the Temple President. His remark to my son and daughter-in-law prior to the party entering the temple for the sealing was, "It's too bad your're all dressed up with nowhere to go," clearly implying that they were second rate because they could not go inside the temple. My son and daughter-in-law were taken aback at the rudeness and insensitivity of this man, and tried to ignore his remark so as not to spoil the wedding and reception. Evidently, Wilcox is of the same cut of cloth of self-righteous asses that think no one outside the Mormon church is any good or is simply "playing church." Do they not know how offensive their stance is to people of other faiths? The arrogance is palpable. In a way I hope more of them go public. The Bible belt churchgoers will certainly kick the missionaries off the front porch. Hopefully such asshattery will also be discovered by LDS youth and aid them in exiting this ridiculous organization. There certainly is a great deal of real joy and happiness outside this religion.
Thank you for putting together another respectful discussion once again.
Love the new format!
Good job, John. It was fun seeing and hearing people share their thoughts.
Great format keep this kinda of energy coming, love the conversations 👏🏿
Great format with a human touch bringing the inhuman dogma of Mormonism home.
Love Mr. Randall!!! This NeverMo thought the same thing!
just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many children were at this youth rescue ?
I don’t know the numbers but I believe it was three stakes.
I especially appreciated Ally’s comments about how parents will feel justified in condemning/disowning/shunning their children because of the narrative that Wilcox is perpetuating.
Hey was there follow up on the Black man who said he's willing to come on and tell his story? At BYU my friend was told she shouldn't date white guys. Yeah it was around 20 years ago but it still happened to people who are alive today and who are relatively young. I think people really need to hear how it personally affected/affects people who are alive today.
I’ll see what I can do.. haven’t gotten anything scheduled
I was upfront told I can only date black LDS men. Thing is I am mixed race, and racism wasn't a part of my daily life. It was weird to see it in singles ward especially. Very potent change to my sense of belonging, and sense of my personal stock plummeting. My dad left the church, shortly after so did I. Many times during singles ward activities I would be pulled aside and asked to mop, clean, sanitize toilets. Could have been my ward, but I barely got to participate in any classes, studies, or actual spiritual time. I was there 3 days a week, just cleaning. I wanted to be in classes, firesides, etc and never got the chance.
@@tse93s That would be awesome
Bravo 👏 great show! Thank you!
This was so great!
John, great job with an intimidating, on-the-spot format. It was incredibly moving to hear impact statements from so many. Well done. And OMG that moonwalk was amazing! 🤩 Just don't mention MJ again because everything that reminds me of him is literally ruined now. 😭
Ah HEheHEhehe thank you
@@CarahBurrell thanks for the👆🤣🤣🤣
I want to be Carrie’s friend. I really liked her. I really liked Spencer too. Great audience comments!
can you guys post a discord link that doesnt expire ? :D
I really love and appreciate all you are doing John and your team as well. As a person of color, I would love to see and hear more from other people of color in episodes such as this. Mostly, it was white folks who were speaking and I understand that that could be the majority of the people who called in but I think that would be important to allow those voices to come on and share their experiences, and stories.
NeverMo here, for years my only real knowledge of LDS comes from my RLDS friend who has said things about Brigham Young that would make most ExMos blush, with idiot, usurper and murderer being some of the nicer terms he uses. Through him he introduced me to some of his LDS contacts, and I found my way to your channel and other ExMo channels to educate myself before debating with them. After dealing with RLDS, who are very much just eccentric protestants, nd bouncing that off of my own Calvinist position, I've developed a unique perspective when it comes to Mormonism, especially since so many Mormons I've met online via my RLDS friend have informed me how evil my theology and worldview is.
Spizzerinctum hahaha. Vigor; vim; energy
That was a term I learned when I taught in the CES Program back in 1976-1980.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spizzerinctum
Listening to this a year later. Did Mike f ever come on the podcast? Would love to hear more