This is absolutely wild and horrific. Also a strange merging of worlds for me. As a native Danish never-Mormon who now lives in the US and have been binge watching Mormon stories for years, I honestly never expected such a pivotal episode to be made about something that happened in my home country. With a small Mormon population, most Danes don’t even know Mormons exist. I hope they do now and see the harm this church can bring to its members. May the Danish ministers and courts do the right thing.
That’s many women’s story I am So Impressed these two Gentlemen are speaking out, standing up and “Being the Change”. John and Maven, well done! (Per usual.) ❤️
Attaching a picture of the potential lock in an email was absolutely disturbing! How can anyone think this is an acceptable solution?! That’s just horrifying.
Major kudos to this journalist and bishop! They are 100% correct. I don't know how the bishop is going to keep from major repercussions. You don't speak up like this without them.
In the last decade we have learned about many abuses perpetrated on members of various religions. I’m so glad there are former Mormons keeping their church accountable. I wish the same could be done for the protestant church, but I’m afraid that it may be too far reaching and spread out to ever get the kind of attention that it needs on the subject. I appreciate every news article, every podcast and every documentary on the subject. Citizens have to know before they can protect the people and their children in those religions. Thank you to everyone at Mormon stories. You have done so much for ex Christians and ex Mormons. You kept me sane through some pretty hard times as I was deconstructing. Thank you, John. I could find you, but I could not find any Christians at the time doing anything near what you were doing. I do believe Mormons are Christians now that I am not a Christian. So don’t let it throw you if I’m separating the two out. As a former Christian, we did not see you as Christians.
Born and raised at ground 0 I left LD$ after decades of being a temple mormon. NO mormons are not christians the way the rest of the world believes in jesus. All in Utah also turn a head from domestic abuses of any age. Kids are mind manipulated from birth, "We gave you birth now you owe us" so domestic Viol. is a vicious circle.
I've been told point blank by a branch president not to report abuse because it would hurt the church reputation. I was so young, dumb and impressionable. I didn't report it
My sister who is TBM adores President Nelson and Wendy too. She does not like Elder Oakes. When you're losing the TBM's you are doing something wrong. Like being yourself. The wrong man for the job- Serious
@@dianethulin1700 my active mom doesnt like Elder Oaks!! SHisHHHHH!!! She and I will DENY every saying it!!! We don't want to be Apostate and Excommunicated!!! PLEASE!!!
When I first learned of Marital R&pe years ago I shared the information with my husband (we were both Mormon.) His response was “If you’re married, r&pe is not possible.” Guess who was married and r&ped for more than 30 years by a Mormon man who served in many callings including as Bishop. The divorce is in progress now.
Good luck in your journey into health and peace; hope you build a strong support system. You’ll likely go through stages of grief (including anger) because it is a type of death.
Was looking through the comments before making one myself. I’m so sorry for what has happened to you. My comment was going to be that I believe there are many people in the church who wouldn’t see a problem with this. It’s absolutely horrific. I can just hear people saying “well, he said he was sorry.”
I have a similar story from a neighboring country of Denmark, and it is horrible 😢 I have heard the story myself, I have read court documents and over heard conversations that leaders has had about it. This has to stop! This poor woman 😢❤
1:06:00 well, so then what? The rapist can’t get to his wife/victim…who do you think he’s going to go after next that he has access to? The kids! Wtf are these people thinking?
Great episode. It demonstrates what so many women have found out the hard way: the church is not a safe place for women or children; and when things go badly, the old boys club (priesthood leaders) are not going to be there to help the victims. They help each other and the church.
I've had MULTIPLE MLMers come up to me and say "I like your shoes, where did you get those?!". Guys, i was wearing 2+year old brooks running shoes. They were beat, probably beyond what most people would wear 😂
The church’s instructions to the family say that Pieter has an addiction that causes him to do these rapes. Is there any such addiction? Or is his behavior just criminal. Also the church’s instructions tell the children to feel sorry for the husband but apparently the children are not told to be sorry for the mother.
43:07 it actually makes perfect sense that premarital consensual sexual is punished more harshly than marital r@pe. They see the former as much worse than the latter. If they are married it’s fine according to that view point.
Our family converted to Mormonism and immigrated to the United States from Denmark. We love our home country. 🇩🇰 This story is heartbreaking. The damage it has, and will continue to cause the victim is real and devastating. I hope the LDS church, the abuser, and the people who enabled it are held fully accountable… and that the real GOOD people will come forward and act on the principles of love for the actual victims and advocate for true Christ-like anger against those who harmed them. The character of Jesus was in standing for good, and he was not always “nice”. He held people accountable and protected the innocent and marginalized. Mormons get that twisted a lot, and it’s a very important distinction.
My great great great grandparents were converted in Copenhagen in the 1860’s and immigrated to Utah. The husband had a second and third wife within 6 years of living in Utah, and now here I am a sixth generation Mormon finally having sufficient information to understand the Church for what it is. What a whirl! I’d love to see Copenhagen someday to imagine an alternate universe lol. I’d love to visit Norfolk, England as well for the same reason (great great great grandparents on another branch immigrated to Utah and a child married one of the Danes I mentioned). Cheers!
This story is horrific. If the church really wants to use the name of Jesus, they need to protect the innocent as he taught instead of protecting the church legally… the lawyers who run the church are not doing a good job.
Just echoing the perception of the Mormon Church in Denmark: there isn’t much perception of it. The Mormons are those people in Utah that used to have lots of wives or some such? That’s about it. Of course there are Mormons in Denmark too, just like there are a members of lots of religions and sects - even some fringe homespun ones - but it’s just not _a thing._ It’s a Protestant-by-default but secular and pretty irreligious country overall so the general attitude is mild bemusement toward religions that are actively practiced in any organized way beyond weddings, funerals and holiday. Or - in the case of horror stories like this - the attitude is bewilderment and concern. Well, in the case of Islam, it often _starts_ at suspicion, but that’s its own can of xenophobic worms. Point is that this story, to many Danish ears, isn’t specifically anti-Mormon, but a story about how and why a belief system _of any kind_ would factor into what’s a horrible tale of abuse regardless.
At some point a woman has to go to the authorities herself. A church or husband may not be working in her best interest. Listen up ladies think for yourself! If you are not safe GET OUT and take the kids with you! Pretending its going to get better is not only naive but foolish and dangerous. God ain't paying attention to your needs. He's busy counting bank deposits! Keep yourself and your children safe!
Isn't it interesting that single bishops don't represent what knowledge the church itself has when it comes to knowing of ongoing crimes, but a bishop does represent the institution, and the church does have knowledge of their actions and personal knowledge when a bishop "tells" a victim to report to police or to leave. (And apparently they know of multiple untraceable times...) Also, it's fascinating that they wouldn't know if things were still happening after the original confession, trial and punishment, seeing as anyone with an ounce of care would worry and inquire on her ongoing safety and well-being once they knew what was happening. It's not as though they were too sensitive and afraid to pry to ask. We know given all the other crazy intrusive questions they routinely demand answers to, from everyone at all ages, believing it be their devine right purview. Surely that would guarantee following up and monitoring to be their standard operating procedure and to be completely necessary by devine mandate. One would think they would have to follow up on this like they do other sins next to murder, or even lesser sins like cloths or drinks or paying them enough.(jk obviously not paying them enough is the most egregious)
What wife dosent have the ability to go to the law herself! If it’s something she feels is against her will she needs to take responsibility to report it! Really, a wife being treated this way sets back and waits for the church to take care of her! Something dosent smell right! This makes Mormon women sound completely helpless! I don’t think so! Why is all this the BIG BAD CHURCH’s fault!
The brainwashing goes deep. It goes very, very deep. I’m not Mormon anymore and I still cannot get the 53 years of indoctrination and brainwashing out of me.
Because the church indoctrinates members from childhood that the only recourse is through the church. Don’t underestimate the power of mind control in high demand religions.
@@joycegrover1146 because they are a big bad church and I lived many decades “knowing” that the people around me are judging the church by my actions, image, language, family, and achievements. To report misdeeds of my husband simply could not happen.
This is absolutely wild and horrific. Also a strange merging of worlds for me. As a native Danish never-Mormon who now lives in the US and have been binge watching Mormon stories for years, I honestly never expected such a pivotal episode to be made about something that happened in my home country. With a small Mormon population, most Danes don’t even know Mormons exist. I hope they do now and see the harm this church can bring to its members. May the Danish ministers and courts do the right thing.
That’s many women’s story
I am So Impressed these two Gentlemen are speaking out, standing up and “Being the Change”.
John and Maven, well done! (Per usual.) ❤️
Attaching a picture of the potential lock in an email was absolutely disturbing! How can anyone think this is an acceptable solution?!
That’s just horrifying.
Thank you for covering this topic
Any time
Major kudos to this journalist and bishop! They are 100% correct. I don't know how the bishop is going to keep from major repercussions. You don't speak up like this without them.
In the last decade we have learned about many abuses perpetrated on members of various religions. I’m so glad there are former Mormons keeping their church accountable. I wish the same could be done for the protestant church, but I’m afraid that it may be too far reaching and spread out to ever get the kind of attention that it needs on the subject. I appreciate every news article, every podcast and every documentary on the subject. Citizens have to know before they can protect the people and their children in those religions. Thank you to everyone at Mormon stories. You have done so much for ex Christians and ex Mormons. You kept me sane through some pretty hard times as I was deconstructing. Thank you, John. I could find you, but I could not find any Christians at the time doing anything near what you were doing.
I do believe Mormons are Christians now that I am not a Christian. So don’t let it throw you if I’m separating the two out. As a former Christian, we did not see you as Christians.
Born and raised at ground 0 I left LD$ after decades of being a temple mormon. NO mormons are not christians the way the rest of the world believes in jesus. All in Utah also turn a head from domestic abuses of any age. Kids are mind manipulated from birth, "We gave you birth now you owe us" so domestic Viol. is a vicious circle.
I've been told point blank by a branch president not to report abuse because it would hurt the church reputation.
I was so young, dumb and impressionable. I didn't report it
We place a lot of trust in people when we don't know better 😞
That was not your fault!
So sad this happened to you. Unfortunately, all they care about is the institution and its image.
WOW!
Dear Elder OAKS!!!!!! Do BETTER!! Be BETTER!!! "Your a mean one Mr grinch" 🎄🎄
My sister who is TBM adores President Nelson and Wendy too. She does not like Elder Oakes. When you're losing the TBM's you are doing something wrong. Like being yourself. The wrong man for the job- Serious
@@dianethulin1700 my active mom doesnt like Elder Oaks!! SHisHHHHH!!! She and I will DENY every saying it!!! We don't want to be Apostate and Excommunicated!!! PLEASE!!!
Mr Oaks went through a lot of conversion therapy (USA term for gays) good thing he was cured of warped thoughts.
When I first learned of Marital R&pe years ago I shared the information with my husband (we were both Mormon.) His response was “If you’re married, r&pe is not possible.” Guess who was married and r&ped for more than 30 years by a Mormon man who served in many callings including as Bishop. The divorce is in progress now.
Good luck in your journey into health and peace; hope you build a strong support system. You’ll likely go through stages of grief (including anger) because it is a type of death.
Was looking through the comments before making one myself. I’m so sorry for what has happened to you. My comment was going to be that I believe there are many people in the church who wouldn’t see a problem with this. It’s absolutely horrific. I can just hear people saying “well, he said he was sorry.”
I have a similar story from a neighboring country of Denmark, and it is horrible 😢 I have heard the story myself, I have read court documents and over heard conversations that leaders has had about it.
This has to stop! This poor woman 😢❤
1:06:00 well, so then what? The rapist can’t get to his wife/victim…who do you think he’s going to go after next that he has access to? The kids! Wtf are these people thinking?
Great episode. It demonstrates what so many women have found out the hard way: the church is not a safe place for women or children; and when things go badly, the old boys club (priesthood leaders) are not going to be there to help the victims. They help each other and the church.
I've had MULTIPLE MLMers come up to me and say "I like your shoes, where did you get those?!". Guys, i was wearing 2+year old brooks running shoes. They were beat, probably beyond what most people would wear 😂
The church’s instructions to the family say that Pieter has an addiction that causes him to do these rapes. Is there any such addiction? Or is his behavior just criminal.
Also the church’s instructions tell the children to feel sorry for the husband but apparently the children are not told to be sorry for the mother.
My pioneer ancestors were from Denmark. I’m surprised to learn the Mormon population there is so small.
That final picture paints a thousand words. ❤
43:07 it actually makes perfect sense that premarital consensual sexual is punished more harshly than marital r@pe. They see the former as much worse than the latter. If they are married it’s fine according to that view point.
Our family converted to Mormonism and immigrated to the United States from Denmark. We love our home country. 🇩🇰
This story is heartbreaking. The damage it has, and will continue to cause the victim is real and devastating.
I hope the LDS church, the abuser, and the people who enabled it are held fully accountable… and that the real GOOD people will come forward and act on the principles of love for the actual victims and advocate for true Christ-like anger against those who harmed them.
The character of Jesus was in standing for good, and he was not always “nice”. He held people accountable and protected the innocent and marginalized.
Mormons get that twisted a lot, and it’s a very important distinction.
My great great great grandparents were converted in Copenhagen in the 1860’s and immigrated to Utah. The husband had a second and third wife within 6 years of living in Utah, and now here I am a sixth generation Mormon finally having sufficient information to understand the Church for what it is. What a whirl! I’d love to see Copenhagen someday to imagine an alternate universe lol. I’d love to visit Norfolk, England as well for the same reason (great great great grandparents on another branch immigrated to Utah and a child married one of the Danes I mentioned). Cheers!
Thanks!
This story is horrific. If the church really wants to use the name of Jesus, they need to protect the innocent as he taught instead of protecting the church legally… the lawyers who run the church are not doing a good job.
JWs lost their Religious exemption in Norway I believe
They can’t express sympathy, or that would be an admission of guilt! 1:34:25
Plus, they likely aren’t feeling sympathy, only irritation.
Just echoing the perception of the Mormon Church in Denmark: there isn’t much perception of it. The Mormons are those people in Utah that used to have lots of wives or some such? That’s about it. Of course there are Mormons in Denmark too, just like there are a members of lots of religions and sects - even some fringe homespun ones - but it’s just not _a thing._ It’s a Protestant-by-default but secular and pretty irreligious country overall so the general attitude is mild bemusement toward religions that are actively practiced in any organized way beyond weddings, funerals and holiday. Or - in the case of horror stories like this - the attitude is bewilderment and concern. Well, in the case of Islam, it often _starts_ at suspicion, but that’s its own can of xenophobic worms. Point is that this story, to many Danish ears, isn’t specifically anti-Mormon, but a story about how and why a belief system _of any kind_ would factor into what’s a horrible tale of abuse regardless.
At some point a woman has to go to the authorities herself. A church or husband may not be working in her best interest. Listen up ladies think for yourself! If you are not safe GET OUT and take the kids with you! Pretending its going to get better is not only naive but foolish and dangerous. God ain't paying attention to your needs. He's busy counting bank deposits! Keep yourself and your children safe!
Isn't it interesting that single bishops don't represent what knowledge the church itself has when it comes to knowing of ongoing crimes, but a bishop does represent the institution, and the church does have knowledge of their actions and personal knowledge when a bishop "tells" a victim to report to police or to leave. (And apparently they know of multiple untraceable times...)
Also, it's fascinating that they wouldn't know if things were still happening after the original confession, trial and punishment, seeing as anyone with an ounce of care would worry and inquire on her ongoing safety and well-being once they knew what was happening.
It's not as though they were too sensitive and afraid to pry to ask. We know given all the other crazy intrusive questions they routinely demand answers to, from everyone at all ages, believing it be their devine right purview.
Surely that would guarantee following up and monitoring to be their standard operating procedure and to be completely necessary by devine mandate.
One would think they would have to follow up on this like they do other sins next to murder, or even lesser sins like cloths or drinks or paying them enough.(jk obviously not paying them enough is the most egregious)
Canwe watch the whole documentary on UA-cam?
No it is a documentary produced by Danish tv2. I dont know how foreigners could access that tv-station?
You may be able to watch using a VPN
Does the church ignore the 12th Article of Faith?
Sounds like it to me.
❤❤❤
This story is so terrible….I don’t know where to start.
Where can we see this doc? I may have missed but is it in Danish?
What wife dosent have the ability to go to the law herself! If it’s something she feels is against her will she needs to take responsibility to report it! Really, a wife being treated this way sets back and waits for the church to take care of her! Something dosent smell right! This makes Mormon women sound completely helpless! I don’t think so! Why is all this the BIG BAD CHURCH’s fault!
The brainwashing goes deep. It goes very, very deep. I’m not Mormon anymore and I still cannot get the 53 years of indoctrination and brainwashing out of me.
Because the church indoctrinates members from childhood that the only recourse is through the church. Don’t underestimate the power of mind control in high demand religions.
Mormon women are taught to submit to male authority, always.
@@joycegrover1146 because they are a big bad church and I lived many decades “knowing” that the people around me are judging the church by my actions, image, language, family, and achievements. To report misdeeds of my husband simply could not happen.