IMPORTANT: The rules about dominating monsters and their abilities only being for the dominating player in the rules are incorrect, Luke Laurie clarified this, the ability is always in play but only favors the dominating player, he gives several examples.
Watching again. Love the shot here - really exposes the beautiful colors of the game, and epic minis. Too bad we couldn't win you over, but thanks for the video! Still fun to listen to years later!
Absolutely shocked that you're not keeping this. Our tastes align in most ways, and Eldervale is unquestionably my top game of 2020. I didn't necessarily disagree with anything you said, but I felt like a lot of things that you took issue with were either not a problem for me or were actually more of a positive. I passed on the wooden treasure tile upgrade and I've been kicking myself ever since, so if you're getting rid of them I'll gladly take them off your hands for more than what you paid for them!
Really? The wording in the rulebook is "this ability is only useful to the dominated monsters owner"? That seems pretty specific. It would negate one of my dislikes for sure if that's true, I doubt it would change my overall opinion but I'll pin a message on it.
@@BoardGameCo Yea I definitely think you read that wrong, that only applies when dominated. I. e. all the monsters abilities are in effect when it is not dominated, but when it is dominated they only apply when it is beneficial to it's dominator.
Interesting review, to say the least. It's nice to see what people like and don't like in games. I disagree with you on a couple of points : first, the dominate ability being there on the monster card and not being used very often due to the rarity of the "domination" cards in the game - for me, it's a great plus. The last thing I want is that, each game, a significant part of the monsters end up dominated and become units. No. Just No. To me, dominating a monster must remain a very rare occurrence in the game, because then it becomes very satisfying. Second, the combat not being satisfying. To each his own, I guess, personnally, many times I've felt "yeaaaah I got him!!" or "Oh nooooo! It was sooo close!!" and that's what makes the salt of the game, for me. Yeah, it's still just dice chuckling, so I perfectly understand it can be frustrating for players who prefer to plan carefully an attack and make it impossible to fail. But Dwellings is not that kind of game. Personnally I love dice chuckling (Dice Throne is one of my very favorite games) even if I'm generally not lucky at all ^_^ For the "tedious" part of the game (placing worker, taking a tile, repeat), I felt, listening to your comments, as if you wanted every move to be incredibly rewarding and borderline epic. That's something I have a hard time to understand. For me, epicness can only be built over tediousness, because in fact it's not tedious, it's paving the way towards what you want to achieve. Different takes on the game, I guess...
Thank you for great review! For once you saved me the money. Still doesn't average out in terms how much you did made me to spend thought... Non the less, great content as always!
We were beyond impressed with this game. My wife and I played it three nights in a row when we first got it because we were enamored with the interplay of the different mechanisms, factions, colors and monsters. So much fun and such great production quality.
Thank you Alex, I do love your honesty, and level of details in your comments. I discovered this game 5 or 6 weeks ago. Watch a full 50 minutes review (where normally I just browse through such long videos). Saw on dice tower, that all 4 main members (Tom, Zee, Mike and Roy), all put it in their 2020 top 10. And I'm looking forward to get a Legendary or deluxe edition, if ever I can. But your the first to mention the one thing I had on y mind since I first laid eyes on it. This is a game I will probably play more for fun, than to win. I do like to win at games, but I mostly play for experience. I like to create something fun. I'm an avid Zombicide fan, because we created so many of these moments. moments where we went for it, and it cost us the game or made us win. Although this feeling might not be that present in this one, because of the way you described combat, we have a tendency to create our stories as we play. This is definitely going to be in my collection, but for example, the cards, I will most likely play to create combos that make my engine/army better than give me more points. I foresee a lot of fun, but probably not that many victory for me. And finally, I also have a group that favor longer, deeper experience, so I believe the end game criteria will take a while to reach. Thanks again for an honest, precise review, you just confirm to me that I want this! Merry Christmas and talk to you soon!
@@BoardGameCo I understand completely. I have some very competitive friends around, and sometimes, I'm told that we are are not here "just for fun". It creates some funny situation, I'm the element of chaos and you probably would understand why they sometime are not paying too much attention to me, and I get some surprise winning! Their face is worth a fortune. So basically, I like to adjust and try different options, instead of them, always trying to improve their strategies. A great example, is when we first played Newton. They really liked it and played 3 games the first week. The following week, I joined them, they explain to me the game. And give me some hints. The library is not really a good way to win, everybody who tried it lost and you want to make sure that you have regular cash coming is, so the economy track is quite important. I look at my starting set up and I can only see the library as being my best option. And, with the cards I acquire, I was able to create money every turn, so I can forfeit the economy track and concentrate on the others. Well, seeing me going in the library they complain that: This is really you, we tell you it's not a good way to win... And you go directly into this route. So they let me go my way, assuming victory is impossible, and I finally won the game. All that just to say. I prefer to find different and more fun way to win. And they kick my butt more often than I kick theirs. But, the feeling is so exhilarating when I beat them! It's forth the couple of game I lose.
@migmeister: Where are u from? Do you have any klones or relatives in Germany? I’d like to have u in my gaming group, must be a lot of fun to play with u. Reading ur post, I remember the 5th Game in a row choosing the Winnu fraction in TI4, and the whole table goes: Laughing and shooting: U want to lose again? And then their faces when I finally won this time….
True...This gave is very hyped up with many reviewers giving it a 2020 top 10 rating. So I am very tempted to get this, but the box size and the many "IT's Great.. BUT.xxxxxx.." reviews, and high cost just means I will probably pass on this for now. Who knows If I get a chance to play it and enjoy it, I may give it a second look. THanks for your review. Appreciate your honesty and love for the hobby.
Bro do you use an outline or notes or anything? I'm always so incredibly impressed with how well organized your thoughts are about these incredibly complex games. Well done sir :)
@@BoardGameCo Amazing. I'm glad your channel finally came up in my feed and I discovered it - I really appreciate your honesty and the deep analysis you provide!
did you use Oracle tile (the KS exclusive ruin)? I had similar gripe with game ending before you get millage out of tableau, esp. those parts scoring low, but more fitting engine. but seeing dif Oracle brings building tableau without bringing endgame closer I think it kind of completely solves that issue for me.
I didn't try the Oracle, it may have helped in some senses but at the same time the game length was already pushing it for what I wanted out of this game and that adds to the length.
I was unreasonably expectant of opening my copy of Eldervale, as I was hoping for a mix of Everdell and Bloodrage, and judging by most reviews, it felt like I might get it. Until now. The things you mention as negative (for you) are exactly the two things that my longing was based on; combat that would feel meaningful and a tableau that is built based on fun combinations of abilities - not VP. I'm still going to try the game and hope we do not agree, but thanks to the fact that you are so verbal in the descriptions of you opinions, I unfortunately have a hard time seeing how I should experience it differently, precisely because you´ve put your finger on it. Not being able to play a game based on what I think is fun but instead having to focus on what gives VP is by far the biggest problem with games today - sadly enough. Dune is on the way so it will be an interesting comparison to see how our opinion agrees or not! Thank you :)
Interesting take on the game. I agree with almost every part from a heavy board gamer perspective, but where this gem of 2020 got me were exactly the same aspects. It seems like a complicated game and yet it is dead simple at its core. I can easily put it on the table when playing with non-gamer friends and they all have a great time since after the first shock of "holy cow that's a lot of stuff in that box" they can come to terms with the rules fast and have fun due to the fact that nobody "forces" optimal play. This game as you said is at ITS BEST when you are not forcing 100% optimal play, instead you try to do as good as you can while having fun.
Ah darn, I was hoping for a "Where are they now?" Update on this game to see how you feel about it in 2022 before the 3rd printing, but if you no longer have the game I'm guessing that's not coming
I’ve been wanting an Age of Wonders style game for a long time, and this should be it, but I think I’ve played too many other board games at this point to truly appreciate what this is bringing tot he table... :-( Did you play it solo at all? That would probably be the main way I’d play it, if I did add it to my collection.
The slow deckbuilding aspect of the game kinda reminds me of Mage Knight... yes, most of your best cards will only be played one to six times, but hey, that's the game, that's how it's designed, that's how you master it, and that's the pleasure of this kind of deckbuilding or engine building: many little choices, and a huge sense of progression along the way... But to each his own: i can't afford tons of games, 1 big box or 2 medium ones each month is my budget, plus i never kickstart anything because of the shipping and extra taxes for Europe. But in 2021, the retail version of DoE will be on top of my wishlist, that's for sure... i guess it's part of the pleasure of not being too spoiled: i buy fewer games, but only sure shots which will get a lot of table time, , and this is definitely one for me...
@Patrick White Nothing to do at all: i don't buy many games and this one looks perfect for me, while Alex will not even keep it in his collection, it's just a matter of taste... as i said, to each his own, but after viewing many playthroughs and reviews of DoE, i know it will be in my collection and enjoyed, that's all... please, don't forget english is my 2nd language, i try to express myself the best i can...
Such a useful review really appreciated this. Much to ponder some of those negatives def hit home as things I might not enjoy. Have really been debating this versus Vindication as my last big purchase of the year. Vindication just doesn’t look like as much in the box for the price but listening to you reviews is prob the better fit
Disappointed you did not like it as much, but then again that is the reason I follow you to hear your opinion.🤗 Did you play Eclipse second dawn? 4x euro style game maybe you like it 😀
The critique about not buying the fun card so you can increase your score by buying the card in an element you are higher in is a little unfair. You said these will score between 0-5 points when in reality if you buy even one card of a color you will move up in that element (which will give you 2 points on its own) and then you will score at 2 points for that card if you don't advance any higher. So it's really not much of a trade off, especially if the fun combo you're buying it for can generate you a few more points as well
Sure, but that's assuming you're at max in the other element. More often than not part of the decision is that you need to advance your element of another color.
Makes sense. Although I am seeing from the comments that the rule book is misleading about some aspects of the domination-based abilities. It was clarified on BGG. I don't think that would have changed it for me but it certainly would have helped.
Interesting and a bit surprised. Friends and I who have played Blood Rage, Rising Sun and Inis with different playgroups to death much prefer this game. It's the perfect balance of strategy and tactics that keeps everyone on edge till the end. This was definitely a surprise but for me. I barely backed it and had regrets before it came in, and it the blew me and anyone who's played it away.
Yep, I'm happy I'm the minority for sure. This is a game that people are loving...for me I wanted to love it far more than I did....it's one that once I decided I was ready to move on....I had no second thoughts.
Wow serious? I rather play blood rage/inis/kemet/scythe. Have not tried rising sun yet though. This game feels like its adding too many things that do not actually make the game better/fun. For some reason i just do not like this game at all
I actually don't see this as a competitor to dudes on a map area control with some euro mechanics in my shelf. To me this is currently a one on one fight between Dwellings and Vindication and currently Dwellings is winning. Fights seems more of a flavor than the point of the game in Dwellings. More of a euro than an area control to me.
@@theRabbitFly well thats true, there is combat though with dudes and monsters so i cant help comparing. In terms of fun value for some reason this game just does not cut it for me. Sadly I have not tried Vindication yet and yeah there's no game close to dwellings of everdale i can compare to except maybe blood rage(?). To me dwellings just feel like a wierd mash of mechanics that don't really connect well.
Whole group preferring this over Blood Rage and Inis sounds weird. I doubt anyone will be talking about Eldervale in 5 years time, while Blood Rage is still the talk today.
Played it last night for the first time, but we knew about monster powers affecting everyone even if not dominated and they were great and affected the game. Battles were hit or miss bc of the luck factor, but we still enjoyed it bc it is fast and you still get what you wanted from the tile.
A very interesting review. I had considered it though after what your review shows I will probably pass. Not my style of game to own. If one of my friends gets it I would probably try it.
I am a little bit surprised that you did not enjoy it as much as you think you "should", it is also true that a gorgeously presented "dish" with a delicious smell might not agree with your taste buds and that's personal 😉 I and my wife love this game, many things to do, escalates nicely to power, and still easy enough to be plany my wife lol We love it
Always enjoy then honesty and passion in your videos, even if the outcome isn't "I love this game." In a crowded market space with tons of potential games to sink money into, it is nice to hear a voice that gives the pros and cons to really help me fine tune where is spend my money.
The designer has clarified that the monster abilities work at ALL times, it's just that the chain symbol shows that the person dominating the monster can take advantage of the ability. For example the deluxe-level fire monster burns dwellings causing the owner to lose a resource or a point. When dominated, the fire monster will still burn enemy dwellings, but will not burn your own.
I read that recently and played it wrong in my first two solo plays, but will play it right from now on.. a reviewer could have stumbled across this before reviewing it.. ;) it makes sense, cause there aren't many cards that let you dominate a monster, so their abilites would be useless most of the time. :)
Really? The wording in the rulebook is "this ability is only useful to the dominated monsters owner"? That seems pretty specific. It would negate one of my dislikes for sure if that's true, I doubt it would change my overall opinion but I'll pin a message on it.
@@BoardGameCo Here is a link to the post by luke laurie explaining how the rule is commonly missed. I completely agree that the rulebook did a terrible job of explaining it lol. First time reading it definitely left it too vague. It seems that "useful" seems to (more often than not) be understood as "able to be used". boardgamegeek.com/thread/2552972/commonly-missed-rule-all-monster-abilities-work-wh
Shocked you did not like it more and are selling it. Every other review has had it in the top 10 of the year if not game of the year. Thanks for your thoughts. I am excited to try it. I also have a Legendary Pledge coming. If I also don’t like it then it’s so hot right now I should have no issue selling it.
100% agreed...I'm baffled that between game systems I love, and everyone else loving it.....for me somehow I like it...but don't love it. And this genre of game for me is far too contested to keep something I just like.
If combat is the issue and you do not like the random luck of the dice then change it with some house rules, for example, use a value of each unit dice amount as a constant combat strength instead ... and use dwellings to add to the final total strength of your units rather than adding dice... basically, the amount of dice is always replaced with combat strength so if you have a spell to reroll 2 dice, add 2 strength instead ... and swords could be used as a final secret bid as bluff modifier seen in many other games ... and when fighting monsters other players not involved in current battle could use their own swords for the monsters bluff modifier ... I am sure you could also easily come up with some other house rule that can make combat more satisfying and more to your liking and style of play!
Yo Alex, why isn’t there a BoardGameCo branded beanie yet? More importantly when can we expect the BGCxQuackalope crossover featuring a duck on the side? I mean, not saying opportunities are be missed here-at all. 🤑
This is like when Tom Vasel didn't liked Brass Birmingham, but he said that everyone else will love it. DoE is an amazing game, not "one of the best ever", but very very good
@@BoardGameCo You're missing out Alex. The solo experience for dwellings is exceptionally fun and seamless to play. I agree with someone else's comment, this game feels like a generic fantasy euro more than a battle/area control game. The battles to me are just there to add excitement and roaring moments to the game. Note: I use the tactics tokens now all the time to mitigate bad rolls. However, if you didn't like it, you didn't like it and fair game to you. It is your time and money.
Your review came like a drop that overflow the glass, I had very few chances to play games and today against the odds I risked to get my copy out hoping to play it, alas it wasn't the day and now it is in the trunk of the car and I think I won't get to play it until next year and getting it back to the house means it has to be alcohol sprayed at the least to get approval to enter
@@BoardGameCo I think he is talking about chaos. Chaos is the most domination focused element by far. If someone is focusing on purple then domination is guaranteed to happen several times a game.
Appreciate the nuanced review! Question for you, though Alex. I know the games aren't the same but if I'm currently deciding on backing Vindication or maybe holding the funds in the Hope's of getting a retail version of the deluxe or legendary version of Eldervale, which is the better choice for the money? Of the two theme filled Euros, which one provides the most fun with the least negative aspects?
Thanks for the review. I wanted to run away the minute I heard it had dice rolls Iol... I'm also not a fan of the flashy colors I have to admit. That being said, I wouldn't mind giving it a try at a friend's house...
The dice rolls are there mostly for flavor. It can often be just as beneficial to loose a battle as it can to win one. Situational of course, but you are always rewarded for your effort no matter the outcome. No battle can really change the outcome of the game. It can change the turn to turn interactions a bit, and that gives the euro mechanics some flavor. There are ways to mitigate dice and death in the game and it is often inherent in your race/tableau.
As much as the production values seem top notch, the combination of mechanics and mostly the bright fantasy theme means it would be a hard sell to my playgroup (and me). No regrets passing on it then!
@@BoardGameCo Depends on the kind of fantasy. Usually high fantasy with saturated colors and/or a more "cartoony" vibe do not pull us in that much, not sure why!
The game is more fun when you play with the monsters abilities right. Every time one comes into the game it changes play for everyone, and gears where people are paying attention to while they’re on the board. The domination rule everyone is misplaying is throwing ppls gameplay exp.
The moments when one dice beats 6 die are the best moments of the game. I think what is the most surprising to me, is how I find Dwellings of Eldervale to more a kin to a more thematic and engaging Vindication than anything like Inis or Blood Rage. It's a euro with interesting interaction. The Dice combat is fun because it does not hamper people as much, I can understand why that might make it less impactful in comparison to stuff like the beforementioned area control games. To be fair I have had far too few plays of both, but I did fall to the pressure to get Vindication this year, and I did reluctantly buy a retail pledge of Dwellings last minute. But out of those two purchases Dwellings seems like the better buy,. They fall into similar categories to me. Both are mostly about resource management and tablau- building with an ingriedent of area control. They are both about the same play time, and they are both trying to be thematic. The differences in the different races and the potential "builds" one can build into feels more and less varied in both in slightly different ways, but Vindication is much dryer, with far less interaction and arguably a bit less theme. Both are also lavish overproduced products, but here Vindication really falters to me. Most of it's production value seems spent at inconsequential things that often detract from the experience, i.e. metal player tokens. At least Dwellings spent all that overproduction on things you can, and will, use during gameplay, and do have a positive impact on the table presence. As it stands they both get to stay in the shelf here, my options for resale is not as good as it is for many. But I definitely think Dwellings will hit the table much more often. Only time will tell I guess. I guess it just doesn't make as much sense to me to compare Dwellings of Eldervale to hybrids like Blood Rage, it is definitely more of a euro than those games, and in some ways I would argue that it's even more of a euro than something like Vindication. It's a slightly tighter puzzle to me. I. e. placement of workers is more contested in Dwellings, and movement between spots is more constricted due to your original placement. It seems most games of Vindication will end with most people being able to move across the map nilly willy. It also seems to be slightly more consistent in it's playtime. I. e. Vindication can run long if the leader has no quick way of triggering end game, while everyone behind still want to try to catch up. Dwellings only have 2 triggers and it seems laying the last tile is more likely to happen as getting 6 dwellings out can be difficult. Scores have also been closer in Dwellings for us, but I am willing to chalk that up to lack of experience.
@@BoardGameCo I dont think any single loss has the ability to ruin plans in dwellings. Not any more than f. Ex someone taking your card or your worker placement spot in other euros. I don't know. I find this idea that this can ruin the experience, but the combat in the game still lacks impact is a bit of a contradiction. Those are the two extreme responses to any mechanical implementation. As it stands Dwellings seem to have found a Nice balance. Making combat mitigatable, while leaving in enough random elements to create upsets, yet making sure combat wont make or Break strategies. Where that ballence falls in appeal is surely subjective yes. The fact that dying gives you resources is a big deal. Glory is great, but there are many ways to exploit the underworld in the game and there are many ways to adapt your plans with a bigger resource pool.
Thanks for your review, i wanted to go legendary + play mat (which is like 400 dollars to my country). But while the game seems pretty good, it has too many negatives to justify the price
@@BoardGameCo yeah most reviews are very positive, and i read a "fix" for the combat in which there are 3 results, 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 and mitigates the chances of losing/wining with fewer dice
I'm completely shocked on this one. It's so many of the things you like, it's highly rated by many others, and yet, the gameplay hasn't been there for you. Quite surprised.
@@benanderson46 right? I got Winter Tales even after watching SUSD's review on it. It seems it is also one of those games that you are in for the experience, not to win :) . In our group we like creating stories.
Re: combat. I get a sense you are a very competitive player who likes the feeling of crushing your opponent. I enjoy the combat in this game but probably for the reason you don't like it. It's not overly punishing and sometimes you do want to lose. It's more subtly strategic and tactical than getting that I stomped you moments. Also explains perhaps the way you feel it's just a mechanism. I think it's tight and the right balance but I think I understand why it doesn't suit you.
Not really on combat :) One of the things I love about Inis is the fact that combat is so secondary to actual control of the board state. Don't get me wrong, I think Dwellings is a solid game...and many love it...but for me it's one that I was trying to like more than actually liking.
I think your argument could be made for just about every single competitive game where people get more experienced and pay more attention to stopping others earlier on. No?
@@BoardGameCo Sorry, you said that after X number of plays, you and your group knew the game well enough to start countering power moves. I feel like that happens with experience with any game of this nature.
IMPORTANT: The rules about dominating monsters and their abilities only being for the dominating player in the rules are incorrect, Luke Laurie clarified this, the ability is always in play but only favors the dominating player, he gives several examples.
Oh no...he's turning into a Quackalope. It all starts with a beanie.
Lol just the one :)
@@BoardGameCo just the one leads to just the two, then you end up just giving up and wearing them in the summer too...
It's a vicious cycle. :P
Nah his face isn't punchable enough lol
Yeah I gree :( so sad
Watching again. Love the shot here - really exposes the beautiful colors of the game, and epic minis. Too bad we couldn't win you over, but thanks for the video! Still fun to listen to years later!
Absolutely shocked that you're not keeping this. Our tastes align in most ways, and Eldervale is unquestionably my top game of 2020. I didn't necessarily disagree with anything you said, but I felt like a lot of things that you took issue with were either not a problem for me or were actually more of a positive. I passed on the wooden treasure tile upgrade and I've been kicking myself ever since, so if you're getting rid of them I'll gladly take them off your hands for more than what you paid for them!
Shoot me a line, email in the description. And yep, I'm surprised as well. I feel like I'm missing something here...but it is what it is.
@@BoardGameCo Email sent! Thank you!
We love how easy the set up and tear down of this game is
For sure, they did an amazing job there.
The Monsters abilities come into play all the time. The ones with the chain just means that when dominated, it only affects the owner of the Monster.
Yup, important to know and I think if he'd known that it would have negated one of his dislikes.
This. I was confused by this rule too until I checked in BGG
Really? The wording in the rulebook is "this ability is only useful to the dominated monsters owner"? That seems pretty specific.
It would negate one of my dislikes for sure if that's true, I doubt it would change my overall opinion but I'll pin a message on it.
@@BoardGameCo Straight from the man himself: www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/2552972/commonly-missed-rule-all-monster-abilities-work-wh
@@BoardGameCo Yea I definitely think you read that wrong, that only applies when dominated. I. e. all the monsters abilities are in effect when it is not dominated, but when it is dominated they only apply when it is beneficial to it's dominator.
Thanks for the honest review.
Anytime. I do think it's a solid game, and people love it. For me I felt I wanted to like it more than I liked it.
Interesting review, to say the least. It's nice to see what people like and don't like in games.
I disagree with you on a couple of points : first, the dominate ability being there on the monster card and not being used very often due to the rarity of the "domination" cards in the game - for me, it's a great plus. The last thing I want is that, each game, a significant part of the monsters end up dominated and become units. No. Just No. To me, dominating a monster must remain a very rare occurrence in the game, because then it becomes very satisfying.
Second, the combat not being satisfying. To each his own, I guess, personnally, many times I've felt "yeaaaah I got him!!" or "Oh nooooo! It was sooo close!!" and that's what makes the salt of the game, for me. Yeah, it's still just dice chuckling, so I perfectly understand it can be frustrating for players who prefer to plan carefully an attack and make it impossible to fail. But Dwellings is not that kind of game. Personnally I love dice chuckling (Dice Throne is one of my very favorite games) even if I'm generally not lucky at all ^_^
For the "tedious" part of the game (placing worker, taking a tile, repeat), I felt, listening to your comments, as if you wanted every move to be incredibly rewarding and borderline epic. That's something I have a hard time to understand. For me, epicness can only be built over tediousness, because in fact it's not tedious, it's paving the way towards what you want to achieve. Different takes on the game, I guess...
Thank you for being respectful and still making good arguments.
Well said, Xavier.
Alex, would you consider doing a ranked Top 20 of the most anticipated Kickstarters that you backed this year? That would be really interesting!
I do plan on some end of year videos :)
@@BoardGameCo Great, I'm excited for them.
judging by all the videos hes making he could probably even do a top 20 for december :-D
Thanks for your thoughts- Not every game will hit with every gamer. For my group this was a home run. Happy Holidays!
Yep, I seem to be the minority here.
Well for me Dwellings Of Eldervale became a classic. It hits a weird sweet spot for me. We play it occasionally, its a hit every time.
Thank you for great review!
For once you saved me the money.
Still doesn't average out in terms how much you did made me to spend thought...
Non the less, great content as always!
We were beyond impressed with this game. My wife and I played it three nights in a row when we first got it because we were enamored with the interplay of the different mechanisms, factions, colors and monsters.
So much fun and such great production quality.
Yep, overall people seem to love the game. For myself I just like it, and it's just too contested an area for me to keep it if I just like it.
Nice review, just tried yesterday and I totally agree with what you're saying
Thank you Alex, I do love your honesty, and level of details in your comments. I discovered this game 5 or 6 weeks ago. Watch a full 50 minutes review (where normally I just browse through such long videos). Saw on dice tower, that all 4 main members (Tom, Zee, Mike and Roy), all put it in their 2020 top 10. And I'm looking forward to get a Legendary or deluxe edition, if ever I can. But your the first to mention the one thing I had on y mind since I first laid eyes on it. This is a game I will probably play more for fun, than to win. I do like to win at games, but I mostly play for experience. I like to create something fun. I'm an avid Zombicide fan, because we created so many of these moments. moments where we went for it, and it cost us the game or made us win. Although this feeling might not be that present in this one, because of the way you described combat, we have a tendency to create our stories as we play.
This is definitely going to be in my collection, but for example, the cards, I will most likely play to create combos that make my engine/army better than give me more points. I foresee a lot of fun, but probably not that many victory for me. And finally, I also have a group that favor longer, deeper experience, so I believe the end game criteria will take a while to reach.
Thanks again for an honest, precise review, you just confirm to me that I want this! Merry Christmas and talk to you soon!
For sure worth checking out then. For me the fun factor works in coop games, but not as much in competitive :(
@@BoardGameCo I understand completely. I have some very competitive friends around, and sometimes, I'm told that we are are not here "just for fun". It creates some funny situation, I'm the element of chaos and you probably would understand why they sometime are not paying too much attention to me, and I get some surprise winning! Their face is worth a fortune. So basically, I like to adjust and try different options, instead of them, always trying to improve their strategies.
A great example, is when we first played Newton. They really liked it and played 3 games the first week. The following week, I joined them, they explain to me the game. And give me some hints. The library is not really a good way to win, everybody who tried it lost and you want to make sure that you have regular cash coming is, so the economy track is quite important. I look at my starting set up and I can only see the library as being my best option. And, with the cards I acquire, I was able to create money every turn, so I can forfeit the economy track and concentrate on the others. Well, seeing me going in the library they complain that: This is really you, we tell you it's not a good way to win... And you go directly into this route. So they let me go my way, assuming victory is impossible, and I finally won the game. All that just to say. I prefer to find different and more fun way to win. And they kick my butt more often than I kick theirs. But, the feeling is so exhilarating when I beat them! It's forth the couple of game I lose.
@migmeister: Where are u from? Do you have any klones or relatives in Germany? I’d like to have u in my gaming group, must be a lot of fun to play with u. Reading ur post, I remember the 5th Game in a row choosing the Winnu fraction in TI4, and the whole table goes: Laughing and shooting: U want to lose again? And then their faces when I finally won this time….
@@samhugo5870 I'm from Canada, quite far from Germany! Thanks for the comment, I believe we would get along real easily! :-)
Physical box size is too big for an above average experience... not to mention the cost.
I'd overlook both of those if the game gave me an amazing experience.
True...This gave is very hyped up with many reviewers giving it a 2020 top 10 rating. So I am very tempted to get this, but the box size and the many "IT's Great.. BUT.xxxxxx.." reviews, and high cost just means I will probably pass on this for now. Who knows If I get a chance to play it and enjoy it, I may give it a second look. THanks for your review. Appreciate your honesty and love for the hobby.
Completely random question. Do u wear a kippa (just googled) under the beanie?
Yes :) You don't actually have to, but then I'd have to think about where I left it :)
Bro do you use an outline or notes or anything? I'm always so incredibly impressed with how well organized your thoughts are about these incredibly complex games. Well done sir :)
Thanks! I generally have an index card with bullet points stuck to the camera :)
@@BoardGameCo Amazing. I'm glad your channel finally came up in my feed and I discovered it - I really appreciate your honesty and the deep analysis you provide!
did you use Oracle tile (the KS exclusive ruin)? I had similar gripe with game ending before you get millage out of tableau, esp. those parts scoring low, but more fitting engine. but seeing dif Oracle brings building tableau without bringing endgame closer I think it kind of completely solves that issue for me.
I didn't try the Oracle, it may have helped in some senses but at the same time the game length was already pushing it for what I wanted out of this game and that adds to the length.
Great review. Very detailed . Keep up the good work!
Thank you :)
I was unreasonably expectant of opening my copy of Eldervale, as I was hoping for a mix of Everdell and Bloodrage, and judging by most reviews, it felt like I might get it. Until now.
The things you mention as negative (for you) are exactly the two things that my longing was based on; combat that would feel meaningful and a tableau that is built based on fun combinations of abilities - not VP. I'm still going to try the game and hope we do not agree, but thanks to the fact that you are so verbal in the descriptions of you opinions, I unfortunately have a hard time seeing how I should experience it differently, precisely because you´ve put your finger on it. Not being able to play a game based on what I think is fun but instead having to focus on what gives VP is by far the biggest problem with games today - sadly enough.
Dune is on the way so it will be an interesting comparison to see how our opinion agrees or not!
Thank you :)
Let me know once you play it...I'm very curious whether you agree or disagree.
Great video. Excellent breakdown
Thank you :)
Interesting take on the game. I agree with almost every part from a heavy board gamer perspective, but where this gem of 2020 got me were exactly the same aspects. It seems like a complicated game and yet it is dead simple at its core. I can easily put it on the table when playing with non-gamer friends and they all have a great time since after the first shock of "holy cow that's a lot of stuff in that box" they can come to terms with the rules fast and have fun due to the fact that nobody "forces" optimal play. This game as you said is at ITS BEST when you are not forcing 100% optimal play, instead you try to do as good as you can while having fun.
Ah darn, I was hoping for a "Where are they now?" Update on this game to see how you feel about it in 2022 before the 3rd printing, but if you no longer have the game I'm guessing that's not coming
It still gets covered in where are they now, but without much update :)
I’ve been wanting an Age of Wonders style game for a long time, and this should be it, but I think I’ve played too many other board games at this point to truly appreciate what this is bringing tot he table... :-( Did you play it solo at all? That would probably be the main way I’d play it, if I did add it to my collection.
Talked myself out of backing this by comparing it a bit to my favorite worker placement game: Argent the Consortium.
Lol nice.
Ooh yes, Argent is so much better, with much more meaningful turns!
The slow deckbuilding aspect of the game kinda reminds me of Mage Knight... yes, most of your best cards will only be played one to six times, but hey, that's the game, that's how it's designed, that's how you master it, and that's the pleasure of this kind of deckbuilding or engine building: many little choices, and a huge sense of progression along the way...
But to each his own: i can't afford tons of games, 1 big box or 2 medium ones each month is my budget, plus i never kickstart anything because of the shipping and extra taxes for Europe. But in 2021, the retail version of DoE will be on top of my wishlist, that's for sure... i guess it's part of the pleasure of not being too spoiled: i buy fewer games, but only sure shots which will get a lot of table time, , and this is definitely one for me...
@Patrick White Nothing to do at all: i don't buy many games and this one looks perfect for me, while Alex will not even keep it in his collection, it's just a matter of taste... as i said, to each his own, but after viewing many playthroughs and reviews of DoE, i know it will be in my collection and enjoyed, that's all... please, don't forget english is my 2nd language, i try to express myself the best i can...
For what it's worth, I love mage knight. The problem here is that the limited used means going for points often makes much more sense
Nice hat, amazed that hats like that aren't worn more often :) Quack
Quack indeed ;)
Such a useful review really appreciated this. Much to ponder some of those negatives def hit home as things I might not enjoy. Have really been debating this versus Vindication as my last big purchase of the year. Vindication just doesn’t look like as much in the box for the price but listening to you reviews is prob the better fit
For me Vindication is soooo much the better game. But I'm the minority on my feelings on Dwellings.
Disappointed you did not like it as much, but then again that is the reason I follow you to hear your opinion.🤗
Did you play Eclipse second dawn? 4x euro style game maybe you like it 😀
I am eager to get my hands on Eclipse :)
And ya, I'm disappointed as well...really tried to like this one.
The critique about not buying the fun card so you can increase your score by buying the card in an element you are higher in is a little unfair. You said these will score between 0-5 points when in reality if you buy even one card of a color you will move up in that element (which will give you 2 points on its own) and then you will score at 2 points for that card if you don't advance any higher. So it's really not much of a trade off, especially if the fun combo you're buying it for can generate you a few more points as well
Sure, but that's assuming you're at max in the other element. More often than not part of the decision is that you need to advance your element of another color.
@@BoardGameCo but if you are at the max then the card scores you 5 so it's mostly a wash
Nice beanie! Did you lose a bet with a certain duck-loving content creator😉 Another nice thorough review👍
Maybe :)
Very very nice review, bought in second hand after watching this :)
Nice, enjoy it :)
the monster variability was the main reason I was telling people the $99/retail was the way to go.
Makes sense. Although I am seeing from the comments that the rule book is misleading about some aspects of the domination-based abilities. It was clarified on BGG. I don't think that would have changed it for me but it certainly would have helped.
Interesting and a bit surprised. Friends and I who have played Blood Rage, Rising Sun and Inis with different playgroups to death much prefer this game. It's the perfect balance of strategy and tactics that keeps everyone on edge till the end.
This was definitely a surprise but for me. I barely backed it and had regrets before it came in, and it the blew me and anyone who's played it away.
Yep, I'm happy I'm the minority for sure. This is a game that people are loving...for me I wanted to love it far more than I did....it's one that once I decided I was ready to move on....I had no second thoughts.
Wow serious? I rather play blood rage/inis/kemet/scythe. Have not tried rising sun yet though. This game feels like its adding too many things that do not actually make the game better/fun. For some reason i just do not like this game at all
I actually don't see this as a competitor to dudes on a map area control with some euro mechanics in my shelf. To me this is currently a one on one fight between Dwellings and Vindication and currently Dwellings is winning. Fights seems more of a flavor than the point of the game in Dwellings. More of a euro than an area control to me.
@@theRabbitFly well thats true, there is combat though with dudes and monsters so i cant help comparing. In terms of fun value for some reason this game just does not cut it for me. Sadly I have not tried Vindication yet and yeah there's no game close to dwellings of everdale i can compare to except maybe blood rage(?). To me dwellings just feel like a wierd mash of mechanics that don't really connect well.
Whole group preferring this over Blood Rage and Inis sounds weird. I doubt anyone will be talking about Eldervale in 5 years time, while Blood Rage is still the talk today.
Played it last night for the first time, but we knew about monster powers affecting everyone even if not dominated and they were great and affected the game. Battles were hit or miss bc of the luck factor, but we still enjoyed it bc it is fast and you still get what you wanted from the tile.
It's a solid game. For me this is a hotly contested genre though.
A very interesting review. I had considered it though after what your review shows I will probably pass. Not my style of game to own. If one of my friends gets it I would probably try it.
Definitely try it given the chance.
Thanks Alex, great review, I like the game for the solo play, the 2 player game was OK, I want to try it at 3 or 4 players.
3 was our preferred game count.
I am a little bit surprised that you did not enjoy it as much as you think you "should", it is also true that a gorgeously presented "dish" with a delicious smell might not agree with your taste buds and that's personal 😉
I and my wife love this game, many things to do, escalates nicely to power, and still easy enough to be plany my wife lol
We love it
Yep, it's a solid game, no question...for me it's not one that I feel the need to keep/own for the reasons given, but I would never turn down a game.
Great review but.... THAT HAT IS AWESOME! Suits you Sir.
Lol thank you :)
Always enjoy then honesty and passion in your videos, even if the outcome isn't "I love this game." In a crowded market space with tons of potential games to sink money into, it is nice to hear a voice that gives the pros and cons to really help me fine tune where is spend my money.
Much appreciated. Dwellings is a solid game by all counts, and yet not one for me.
actual good review, nut just blindly rating it good for "smooth gameplay"
Appreciate it!
Omg... I miss your honest reviews about games and coming crowdfoundings :(
Wait I'm confused....what is it you missed exactly?
Interesting game. Looks very flashy and cool. Nice review!
It's solid and getting a lot of buzz. Honestly my getting rid of it is the exception, not the rule. I do recommend checking out other reviews as well.
The designer has clarified that the monster abilities work at ALL times, it's just that the chain symbol shows that the person dominating the monster can take advantage of the ability. For example the deluxe-level fire monster burns dwellings causing the owner to lose a resource or a point. When dominated, the fire monster will still burn enemy dwellings, but will not burn your own.
I read that recently and played it wrong in my first two solo plays, but will play it right from now on.. a reviewer could have stumbled across this before reviewing it.. ;) it makes sense, cause there aren't many cards that let you dominate a monster, so their abilites would be useless most of the time. :)
Really? The wording in the rulebook is "this ability is only useful to the dominated monsters owner"? That seems pretty specific.
It would negate one of my dislikes for sure if that's true, I doubt it would change my overall opinion but I'll pin a message on it.
@@BoardGameCo Here is a link to the post by luke laurie explaining how the rule is commonly missed. I completely agree that the rulebook did a terrible job of explaining it lol. First time reading it definitely left it too vague. It seems that "useful" seems to (more often than not) be understood as "able to be used". boardgamegeek.com/thread/2552972/commonly-missed-rule-all-monster-abilities-work-wh
@@BoardGameCo yeah, the rulebook is wrong. i played it wrong the first times as well.
@@BoardGameCo That's only relevant when it's dominated. When out there normally, it affects everyone.
Shocked you did not like it more and are selling it. Every other review has had it in the top 10 of the year if not game of the year. Thanks for your thoughts. I am excited to try it. I also have a Legendary Pledge coming. If I also don’t like it then it’s so hot right now I should have no issue selling it.
100% agreed...I'm baffled that between game systems I love, and everyone else loving it.....for me somehow I like it...but don't love it. And this genre of game for me is far too contested to keep something I just like.
How did this compare for you to Endless Winter?
I prefer EW
If combat is the issue and you do not like the random luck of the dice then change it with some house rules, for example, use a value of each unit dice amount as a constant combat strength instead ... and use dwellings to add to the final total strength of your units rather than adding dice... basically, the amount of dice is always replaced with combat strength so if you have a spell to reroll 2 dice, add 2 strength instead ... and swords could be used as a final secret bid as bluff modifier seen in many other games ... and when fighting monsters other players not involved in current battle could use their own swords for the monsters bluff modifier ... I am sure you could also easily come up with some other house rule that can make combat more satisfying and more to your liking and style of play!
Yo Alex, why isn’t there a BoardGameCo branded beanie yet? More importantly when can we expect the BGCxQuackalope crossover featuring a duck on the side? I mean, not saying opportunities are be missed here-at all. 🤑
There will be things over time :) Right now I barely can keep up as it is :)
@@BoardGameCo Haha fair enough.
Your cap should be blue-white 😆
Good point :)
This is like when Tom Vasel didn't liked Brass Birmingham, but he said that everyone else will love it. DoE is an amazing game, not "one of the best ever", but very very good
Yep, I just can't get into this one enough to justify the place on my shelf...but there are many who clearly love it.
Interesting game. Have you tried the solo mode at all?
Haven't tried the solo sadly.
@@BoardGameCo You're missing out Alex. The solo experience for dwellings is exceptionally fun and seamless to play. I agree with someone else's comment, this game feels like a generic fantasy euro more than a battle/area control game. The battles to me are just there to add excitement and roaring moments to the game. Note: I use the tactics tokens now all the time to mitigate bad rolls. However, if you didn't like it, you didn't like it and fair game to you. It is your time and money.
Your review came like a drop that overflow the glass, I had very few chances to play games and today against the odds I risked to get my copy out hoping to play it, alas it wasn't the day and now it is in the trunk of the car and I think I won't get to play it until next year and getting it back to the house means it has to be alcohol sprayed at the least to get approval to enter
It's still a game worth trying for sure....people seem to love this one. I'm the minority.
@@BoardGameCo I will as I might like it is just the bummer
@@BoardGameCo hope it is good for me, is just a bummer thakingnthe risk of getting it out of the house for nothing
Thank you for saving a lot of money ;-)
Happy to help :)
Did you play Shadow? A lot more monster domination occurs if that's the case.
Shadow? That's not an element is it? There's darkness...or something else?
@@BoardGameCo I think he is talking about chaos. Chaos is the most domination focused element by far. If someone is focusing on purple then domination is guaranteed to happen several times a game.
Appreciate the nuanced review! Question for you, though Alex. I know the games aren't the same but if I'm currently deciding on backing Vindication or maybe holding the funds in the Hope's of getting a retail version of the deluxe or legendary version of Eldervale, which is the better choice for the money?
Of the two theme filled Euros, which one provides the most fun with the least negative aspects?
For me Vindication kills hands down. But I may be in the minority there.
They’re not the same, but they’re clearly filling the same niche.
@@shanerion it definitely seems that way for me (having not played either one)
Thanks for the review. I wanted to run away the minute I heard it had dice rolls Iol... I'm also not a fan of the flashy colors I have to admit. That being said, I wouldn't mind giving it a try at a friend's house...
It's worth trying for sure, it's a solid game that many love. For myself I merely liked it...but still worth a try.
The dice rolls are there mostly for flavor. It can often be just as beneficial to loose a battle as it can to win one. Situational of course, but you are always rewarded for your effort no matter the outcome. No battle can really change the outcome of the game. It can change the turn to turn interactions a bit, and that gives the euro mechanics some flavor. There are ways to mitigate dice and death in the game and it is often inherent in your race/tableau.
As much as the production values seem top notch, the combination of mechanics and mostly the bright fantasy theme means it would be a hard sell to my playgroup (and me). No regrets passing on it then!
Your group doesn't like fantasy?
@@BoardGameCo Depends on the kind of fantasy. Usually high fantasy with saturated colors and/or a more "cartoony" vibe do not pull us in that much, not sure why!
So the price of a new camera was to wear a beanie?
Maybe...I'll never tell.
You're becoming one of my fabourite reviewers. It would be awesome to see you as a guest on The Dice Tower at some point.
Thank you ❤️
First a beanie THEN a duck THEN a quack 🦆
It's a slow burn...
Re-watching this to see if it helps me save $350
Good luck :)
The game is more fun when you play with the monsters abilities right. Every time one comes into the game it changes play for everyone, and gears where people are paying attention to while they’re on the board. The domination rule everyone is misplaying is throwing ppls gameplay exp.
Ya, I wish I had played it correctly. I don't think it would change my opinion but it would certainly have helped.
The moments when one dice beats 6 die are the best moments of the game.
I think what is the most surprising to me, is how I find Dwellings of Eldervale to more a kin to a more thematic and engaging Vindication than anything like Inis or Blood Rage. It's a euro with interesting interaction. The Dice combat is fun because it does not hamper people as much, I can understand why that might make it less impactful in comparison to stuff like the beforementioned area control games.
To be fair I have had far too few plays of both, but I did fall to the pressure to get Vindication this year, and I did reluctantly buy a retail pledge of Dwellings last minute. But out of those two purchases Dwellings seems like the better buy,. They fall into similar categories to me. Both are mostly about resource management and tablau- building with an ingriedent of area control. They are both about the same play time, and they are both trying to be thematic. The differences in the different races and the potential "builds" one can build into feels more and less varied in both in slightly different ways, but Vindication is much dryer, with far less interaction and arguably a bit less theme.
Both are also lavish overproduced products, but here Vindication really falters to me. Most of it's production value seems spent at inconsequential things that often detract from the experience, i.e. metal player tokens. At least Dwellings spent all that overproduction on things you can, and will, use during gameplay, and do have a positive impact on the table presence.
As it stands they both get to stay in the shelf here, my options for resale is not as good as it is for many. But I definitely think Dwellings will hit the table much more often. Only time will tell I guess.
I guess it just doesn't make as much sense to me to compare Dwellings of Eldervale to hybrids like Blood Rage, it is definitely more of a euro than those games, and in some ways I would argue that it's even more of a euro than something like Vindication. It's a slightly tighter puzzle to me. I. e. placement of workers is more contested in Dwellings, and movement between spots is more constricted due to your original placement. It seems most games of Vindication will end with most people being able to move across the map nilly willy.
It also seems to be slightly more consistent in it's playtime. I. e. Vindication can run long if the leader has no quick way of triggering end game, while everyone behind still want to try to catch up. Dwellings only have 2 triggers and it seems laying the last tile is more likely to happen as getting 6 dwellings out can be difficult.
Scores have also been closer in Dwellings for us, but I am willing to chalk that up to lack of experience.
It is tragic, not fun at all
@@johnpanagos5835 If that was a determining factor to winning or loosing, sure, but it really never should be in a game of dwellings.
I will admit they have produced the most "fun" in the singular moment of the roll....but it bites for the person who made a plan and it falls apart.
@@BoardGameCo I dont think any single loss has the ability to ruin plans in dwellings. Not any more than f. Ex someone taking your card or your worker placement spot in other euros.
I don't know. I find this idea that this can ruin the experience, but the combat in the game still lacks impact is a bit of a contradiction.
Those are the two extreme responses to any mechanical implementation. As it stands Dwellings seem to have found a Nice balance. Making combat mitigatable, while leaving in enough random elements to create upsets, yet making sure combat wont make or Break strategies.
Where that ballence falls in appeal is surely subjective yes.
The fact that dying gives you resources is a big deal. Glory is great, but there are many ways to exploit the underworld in the game and there are many ways to adapt your plans with a bigger resource pool.
Thanks for your review, i wanted to go legendary + play mat (which is like 400 dollars to my country). But while the game seems pretty good, it has too many negatives to justify the price
Make sure to check out other reviews too though.
@@BoardGameCo yeah most reviews are very positive, and i read a "fix" for the combat in which there are 3 results, 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 and mitigates the chances of losing/wining with fewer dice
I'm completely shocked on this one. It's so many of the things you like, it's highly rated by many others, and yet, the gameplay hasn't been there for you. Quite surprised.
I know :( So was I :(
This is the first negative review of yours that makes me want to get the game.
Lol, go for it :)
Ah, the "SUSD effect"
@@benanderson46 right? I got Winter Tales even after watching SUSD's review on it. It seems it is also one of those games that you are in for the experience, not to win :) . In our group we like creating stories.
Let me know if you sell your copy, Please!!!
Please contact me I'd really like to buy this copy of Dwellings of Everdale
Sure, shoot me an email, it's in the description.
@@BoardGameCo Hey I'm sorry I must be stupid...lol...I don't see your email.
Oh nevermind I see it!!!
Re: combat. I get a sense you are a very competitive player who likes the feeling of crushing your opponent. I enjoy the combat in this game but probably for the reason you don't like it. It's not overly punishing and sometimes you do want to lose. It's more subtly strategic and tactical than getting that I stomped you moments.
Also explains perhaps the way you feel it's just a mechanism.
I think it's tight and the right balance but I think I understand why it doesn't suit you.
Not really on combat :) One of the things I love about Inis is the fact that combat is so secondary to actual control of the board state.
Don't get me wrong, I think Dwellings is a solid game...and many love it...but for me it's one that I was trying to like more than actually liking.
@@BoardGameCo but that's the same here.
Fun game and the mechanics feels different every time. Just hated dices
Yep, there's a lot to love here. For myself though in the end I just liked it...not loved it.
I think your argument could be made for just about every single competitive game where people get more experienced and pay more attention to stopping others earlier on. No?
Depends, which argument are you referring to?
@@BoardGameCo Sorry, you said that after X number of plays, you and your group knew the game well enough to start countering power moves. I feel like that happens with experience with any game of this nature.
Please don't also start with the beanie look...
Hey! Don't hate on the beanie :)
Well, then let me put it that way: It doesn't improve your look :P