This time I'm more into the quack review (if it happens sometime), because etherfields it's not my kind of theme so... tainted grail and iss are two that really interests me more. But really nice video with great points to argue about, like usual. 👍👍
The best thing about this channel is that, though you have strong opinions on the games you like and the games you don't, you seem very aware that not everyone "games" the way you do. It's easy to watch your channel, hear what you have to say, and NOT want to pound your ignorant face in. You're like the antithesis of a conceited game snob. I wish there were more channels like yours. Keep up the good work!
I knew I would be backing ISS vanguard as soon as I saw the game play video with quackalope. That bit when he accidentally wiped out the life you found and the fact he genuinely looked shocked and a tad upset by his actions. That’s incredible for me and that Immersion in a game to actually care about what you are doing in a game makes it a win for me all over.
Still don't know what to think about ISS Vanguard, and i've watched most of the UA-cam vids available... I'm a huge sci-fi fan, so the theme, the story and the art really appeal to me. But for a good sci-fi story, i could as well read again some of my favorite books by David Brin, Larry Niven or Arthur Clarke... and for the "immersion" feel, videogames usually do the trick better: Mass Effect, No Man's Sky, or even all the Metroids... I really get what they're tryin' to achieve here, and i respect that kind of dedication and passion... but as you've said, gameplay IS important for many of us, and when it comes to board games, the strategy and the gameplay mechanics are the most important aspects for me, not the look, the components or even the story, even if the "whole" package is always better... I really wish they'd go for a good deckbuilding instead of dices, as it would be so close to the kind of "Mage Knight/Gloomhaven in space" crossover i dream about... will i back this as it is? I still don't have a clue... but thanks for all your efforts anyway... :)
Definitely hear what you're saying and it echoes my thoughts as well. I'm still totally on the fence with ISS. Since game mechanics are important, have you looked into Unsettled as compared to ISS?
@@JohnClem56 Don't know much about Unsettled, no, just watched a long playthrough and wasn't really convinced either... but many people compare it to ISS Vanguard these days, so it may be a good tip... wait and see i guess...
I’m going to respectfully disagree on the need of yet another legacy deck builder. For just Awaken Realms there is already Etherfields and Tainted Grail, than of course there is Gloomhaven and Frosthaven from Cephalofair? Deck Builders have more then their share and hate to see it become the “go to” for legacy games.
@@richardcarneski8789 Fair point, but for me, amongst these, Gloomhaven is the only one to have done it "right" so far, so there's no real market saturation. :) I'm not a huge fan of campain/legacy games (still waiting for Aeon's End & Clank legacies to be translated in french, though), but anyway, most have quite a generic fantasy theme, so i think there's still room for the kind of well written, sci-fi epic i'd like to play. And when it comes to gameplay, i think deckbuilding still has many tricks under its sleeve. Maybe some talented devs out there will dig for more in a near future, as we live in a kind of "board games golden age", as Alex quite often says in his videos... i hope so anyway...
He does that to me ALL THE TIME!!! At some point I may wise up and stop watching his videos. ..... Errr.... Nah... who am I kidding. That won't happen. :-)
Vanguard reminds me more of this war of mine. Where they have incorporated the journal and the house into the one folder and the night time adventures now take place in an upgraded near and far esque map book as opposed to on cards and in the story book
Came to the same conclusion twice, once when I skipped Etherfields once it was out on Kickstarter because I felt it was a little convoluted and not my genre. The second time now when I pledged to Vanguard cause I love Science Fiction and the ship phase seems really attractive to me (I also enjoy the bookkeeper at the end of each Gloomhaven scenario). Maybe someone should some day tell Marcin and the guys from AR that nobody seems to like the grinding elements of their games?
I hopped on Etherfields in the PM and after reading all these reviews I saw the repeating pattern of a grind in AR games (already experienced this in Tainted Grail). This is actually the first time I reached out to the publisher and asked them to cancel my pledge. I'm very happy I did that because now having seen gameplay videos, I really needed the gameplay of this game to be solid but it just isn't for me and theme and story just are not enough to keep me engaged.
Same here. Backed Etherfields last month as soon as the pledge manager reopened to everyone.... then proceeded to get inundated with the same complaints (rule book, game board, tedious/repetative slumbers, lack of any structured storyline) and finally decided to cancel my pledge and request a refund.
@@BoardGameCo They made a Dream-only-mode and to be frankly, there are also lots of reviews that say, that these dreams are awesome. So why don't give this a chance? I'll do so at least. :)
thanks for this one Alex! I've seen in the latest KS update of etherfields they are doing some re-works for the second wave of shipping. - they are adding a play method that will skip/reduce the repetitive slumbers, resulting in 20-30 hour campaign of dreamwalking - they are designing a horizontal board rather than the cumbersome vertical. knowing this, does that change your final verdict?
Trust me if you have played 8 hours of Etherfields you haven't even begun or experienced anything of the game it does evolve later on with the slumbers almost like the creators knew you would be fed up to the back teeth of slumbers, my friend and I are 70+ hours into the game, we are taking a break as we are closing into finishing the 1st campaign and I am painting up all the mini's, we will be back for campaign 2 though. I haven't received my copy of ISS Vanguard yet but looking forward to, this is one I am looking to play solo.
We need a Board Game Co tee-shirt that says “ To Be Clear…” on the front in bold white letters and then on the back has a list of games that are leaving the collection. I’d throw $20 at that all day. 😂😂
Just a thought, could the reason your not interested in the story of Etherfields be because of the theme. Between these two games, we have too distinct themes. Etherfields is more of mystery and you don't know what your really getting, and its all strange and can be random at times, because its based on Dreams. While on the other Hand Iss Vanguard seems very straight forward space exploration theme, it might be random in terms of events that happen to you on planets, but it isn't a strange world were anything can happen.
Thanks Alex! Question for you! I've noticed with a lot of AR games that the extra minis have little-to-no gameplay function. You touched on this for ISS Vanguard's Close Encounter expansion and it sounds like the minis would replace tokens? So that at least means they serve a purpose in the game as a deluxified component? I'm just looking for more info on this. I don't want minis if they serve no function and their purpose is to add ambiance like in Tainted Grail.
I play Etherfields with my wife and she loves it. I asked my gamegroup and my wife for ISSV and noone was interested. I dont want to play it solo for that cost, so easy pass for me. My gamegroup on the other hand want to play Etherfields, but i dont know if i can run 2 campaigns.
I really want to play vanguard solo, i cant see my group playing it but I do love the theme and I think being able to go at my own pace (not the group's pace) will make this a rewarding experience for me and something to do when the group arent available.
One thing that I don't have very clear from your gameplay of ISS Vanguard, can you visit planets several times to uncover areas that you didn't manage to see on previous landings?
Just a friendly nitpicky suggestion, you tend to frequently mention 7th Continent as a point of reference when talking about “narrative” games, but I don’t actually believe 7th Continent is a narrative game. It’s a survival exploration game with very little narrative. It might give people the wrong the idea if 7th Continent is the closest thing they’ve played to a narrative game and they go into something like ISS Vanguard expecting a similar experience. I think it’s a pretty vastly different experience and an altogether different category of game. Games like Tainted Grail, Folklore, Near and Far, and Forgotten Waters might be better comparisons. Just my unsolicited 2 cents. Thanks for the great videos.
That's a fair point. I mentally bunch them in the category due to the weaker gameplay and narrative arc behind the exploration but you're right that the story is more abstracted.
It's funny how much minis can become a dividing issue. Some seem to back almost just for the minis and others decry the cost that minis add to the game. For me the 7th Continent minis were too small to be useful and the Etherfields minis were too big to be useful (so I'm glad I didn't get them). What about theme? Do you think fantasy vs science fiction would have a meaningful impact on which game people would like more?
I also heard that the slumbers can be very repetitive and make people want to skip them. But is this not like a jrpg where you are allowed to skip fights but in doing so you won't be able to grind/level up? Did you have this mindset going in?
Hi! It's a dream. You (we) don't have to impact the story, i has to impact us. We do not control our dreams !!!!! How do you think the slumbers fit into the story? Why are they there? Have you uncovered the Deliverance deck? (If not go further, else Aren't you curious about the slumbers?) Thx!
How do you feel ISS Vanguard would play with 2-4 players? Enjoyed playing Gloomhaven with my group but as a tactics game we were all involved in the action. 7th Continent I only played with one friend as I felt it wasn't interactive enough to keep all four playing. Would this be enjoyable for four or is it best as a solo story?
I'll just say this: 1) Tainted Grail --> Danger exploration + grind to keep locations (Menhirs) alive + conflict mechanics are overbearing = survival (theme) 2) Etherfields --> Evolving exploration + grind to improve character's (Dreamer) knowledge + conflict mechanics are fluid and simple = nebulous (theme) 3) ISS Vanguard --> Knowledge exploration + grind to support resources (Vanguard) + conflict mechanics are statistical = learning (theme) Three out of three times, Awaken Realms nails the thematic game experience of these story-driven games. There is no 'This OR That'. True thematic gamers will only see 'This AND That'.
You forgot TWoM -> hunting/searching for usable stuff + statics management + house developement -> overal surviving = civilian in war (theme) Nemesis as well as LoH although has this survival aspect (in solo mode of LoH) but without the great story telling
@@cyberleish there is no grind in etherfields either and in TG it depends on your playstyle, if you want to squeeze out every tiny thing it is grinding but if you just follow the main storyline and use story mode it is not grinding. And how can you say it is without playing it? cheers
@@grischakugelmann2660 around 10 hours of watching playthroughs for each game gives an idea, plus listening to the reviews of people I've learned to trust. Maybe the final game of ISS Vanguard will have a grind, who knows, but i do know there are repetitive elements of both the other games which I dont really want to have to put up with. Personal opinion of course.
@@cyberleish because of reviews i bought GH and in my opinion it is a game with a boring story, bad components and you need to destroy the components or pay extra for metal stickers. The card mechanic is good but very random and it is totally of balanced if you try various player-counts and -levels. The setup time for a single 'dungeon' is like 20 min for a 10-12 min playing time (that's why lion roar exist) and the loot is unbalanced too (the developer had to change it by request for FH). The art of cards is rudimentary (my 7 years old daughter does better drawings) and the retirement thing can be painful if you get retired by default and loose your loved character in lvl 2 because of a chest. I will never again buy a game because someone rated it good, i watch reviews but i look at what i am seeing and reading and will decide by my self. I own almost all AR and AR Lite games and not regret a single one of them. Build your own opinion by reading the rules and listening to backers (not people who watch reviewers and copy their thoughts before even getting a game). Stupid things like 'i will sell my unopened copy because of the bad review'. cheers
Alex, I am totally with you! the ship phase seems, for me, by far the most appelaing part of the whole thing because it is where you do experience the sense of continuity, change and gorwth of Vanguard and its crew.
Hey, what do you think the chances are that awaken realms will do a late pledge nearer the time when the first wave shipping starts to get delivered! Similar to what they did with etherfields. Really want this game but just after Christmas, money is tight.
Alex, have you been in contact with AR concerning the negatives of Etherfield? Do you know whether they are planning to improve things (slumber, walking around dream map, etc.) - now or with wave 2 content? I read the last kickstarter update; they talked about continuous dream mode... but do you have more information? And how does AR perceive the feedback from all the UA-camrs, Forums, etc.? Thanks anyways
Comparison between ISS Vanguard and Unsettled by orange nebula would be great, even if you might have not played Unsettled, they seem similar enough to be compared :)
Hi Alex. Thanks for this as ive really been on the fence with vanguard. As they are both story driven games would you say they are more solo players experience? I know you played with quackalope too but did having 2 or more people involved make the game more rewarding ? Obviously games are more fun with others but with covid and my wife not being a gamer i am always considering solo player games and i do love a good story
Speaking for myself I'd prefer Etherfields solo, but prefer vanguard with 2. That being said I assume both are good with 2, I haven't played either with more.
Dude! Totally off topic but since you mentioned 7th Continent I must tell you that my copy came in the mail today. I'm pretty psyched about it and I'm gonna play the hell out of it over the holiday.👍
Darn forgot to ask. Will you be doing a comparison video between USS Freedom and ISS vanguard? Obviously freedom didnt have the big company name behind it but it did seem to have space and ship sections. And you did enjoy it in your video even though it was a.tad more silly. Cheers ! :)
on balance I agree with Alex and I'm paused over the pledge button on ISS Vanguard, but then if asked to pick a single game at a significant purchase point this month I'd probably (almost certainly) late pledge Stars of Akarios
@@BoardGameCo the initial theme was good for me but it's been the interaction of Brendan (designer) with the community that has my enthusiasm. He released very early versions on tabletopia, engages with the community regularly, released a substantial beta for us to play and feedback, has revamped the enemy AI, released STL files for us to self print. He has looked at what works and borrowed heavily, the space combat gives hex based positional play with a neat dice management system topped with Gloomhaven style attack decks. The bit most haven't seen is the planetary explorations which borrow from tainted grail (but sharper and simpler).
Thanks for the great comparison! I found your opinions on these two different games very interesting. Especially from the perspective of someone who PRACTICALLY plays both games. I am a huge fan of AR (they are my countrymen from Wroclaw, Poland :)) and it is difficult for me to be objective sometimes. I'm still waiting for Etherfields (non-English language versions are, as you know, shipped out later - minimum 3 months) and ISS Vanguard will probably be with me in 2022. But thanks to your movie I jumped into the manager's pledge and paid extra for the figures and the Sphinx campaign. And I became confident that the ISS Vanguard is worth the wait. Thank you and best regards - you are doing a great job! PS of course i subscribed to your channel :)
whats really ticking me off with Vanguard i dont want the mini's yet im forced to buy them in the commanders pledge just so i can get the stretch goals..im wondering if that is acutally worth getting or not?
Thank you for another interesting video. Your skills of expression are quite polished, don't they? From 15:22 and forth, I couldn't stop wishing that this video is part 1 out of (at least) 2, while part 2 will be your updated impressions after another 10 hours of playing each of them...
Thanks for the fantastic video! The binder was actually the thing I was most worried about, it puts my mind at ease knowing you enjoy it since your board game tastes seem similar to mine. I'll definitely be backing ISS Vanguard.
I enjoyed the video. Nice comparison of 2 games that I believe I will enjoy completely. I have Etherfields already and will probably be playing here soon when I get some time with my 2 week vacation. I pledged for ISS Vanguard as well. I do enjoy the story driven aspects of both games.
Thank you so much for this comparison. I have been seduced in Etherfields by the universe which seems be like a deep dive in the inconscient. Still a bit be afraid by the mechanic but I stay on my choice. Thanks to you I have now to pledge also ISS Vanguard for different reasons! Nevertheless the fact that miniatures are only needed by collectors will help. Thank you
Good comparison. Shame that Awaken Realms couldn't figure out Canadian Shipping before launching the campaign. They say they'll try to get better pricing, but can't back it on the hopes they'll do it. So it's a hard pass on ISS Vanguard. Shipping shouldn't be 1/3 of the games overall cost, and Canada shouldn't have the most expensive shipping in the world. Meanwhile, I'm all-in on Vindication which has FREE shipping to Canada.
I think KoA said that some manufacturers will take a hit on some parts of their game to make sure part of their loyal fan base arent disenfranchised. What he actually said is they could take less of a profit on the Canadian ones (not a loss, just less of a profit). I know from the Stars of Akarios KS that they are taking a hit on vat (rather than passing it on as an added expense) and are sticking to a translation promise despite the emerging costs, a new company learning from experience but making sure the customer isn't hit.
Very interesting points! Personally I am in the "danger zone", having started backing big games with The Everrain and Bloodborne (both of which haven't delivered yet), I am still backing too many games. So while I will be getting both ISS and Etherfields, it was interesting to see how you contrasted them!
On the subject of the Mini's Tainted grail is the same they dont come out all that often and are completely not needed but the minis are so amazing ( and me not being huge on minis ) that after playing my friends copy of Tainted grail I went ahead and added the minis to Etherfields and will do so as well with Vanguard
Damn, so many games in this genre too choose from! ISS Vanguard or 7th Citadel? I'm concerned about awakened realms' track record of using grind to fill in the hours. But the hype is real on this one. Which is the better back!?
I haven't played the narative games you have mentioned. In board game form, I've played some Legacy games (Pandemic, Betrayal, etc.), Tales of the Arabian Nights is about it. But also play pen and paper RPGs. How do you feel ISS Vangard lines up as a narrative game compared to those? I feel I'm missing base connection to understand what I would be getting into if I backed. I have to say the SD&SU review of Etherfields really scared me away from that one, as unclear rules really do get on my nerves. Because I could just read a book for a great story, mechanics and choice are why I'm looking at stories in board game form. But if it's a mess, I would rather not bother, lol. As always, you do an amazing job, keep it up and I look forward to more!
I guess you know about the new Continuous Dream Mode that Awaken Realms is working on (to drastically reduce the slumber phase). It would be interesting to see what you think about it when they release it :) Just to know if it actually solves the bad aspect of Etherfields you mention in the video
Thanks again Alex, for a well constructed opinionated video. I am onboard with that. And the arguments you put on the table is probably also the reason I did not back Etherfields (after three attempts to do so) and am backing ISS Vanguard. My question for you, looking at the ton of minis in the Etherfields game and add-on of the commanders pledge for ISS Vanguard, why you still feel the need to have the minis if they are not, or maybe 3%, necessary? I must say that the ones from Etherfields, although gorgeous, seem convoluting the game and the unique ones in ISS Vanguard have maybe (because of different bio-systems and bio-domes to be build) just a pinch more value. In all playthroughs I've seen, the behemoth got pulled out once or two, and did not even see any standees. You reckon' the game doesn't need any, at this point (10 hours)?
ISS Vanguard is more my style of IP, however, I do admit I have a few of the same concerns. I love the style of narration but I also do like tactical combat sprinkled in. I’ve all in backed it so I guess I’ll find out first hand. I do have a lot of faith in Awaken Realms at this point delivering me a great game outside my comfort zone.
I am pretty sure you will love the story TG will bring to you, maybe until you get your vanguard copy you will manage to go through all 3 campaigns. ;)
Isn't it a bit early? We're still talking about a prototype game that will be released in IX 2021 (maybe), aren't we? Should we watch this video when both games will be available? I'm confused. What if the final ISS game will change to a degree where this video is no longer valid? Maybe this video shouldn't actually be titled "play this, not that" because at the time it's being posted it's actually impossible (almost for everyone) to play ISS. I just don't feel comfortable watching all those hype-related videos (I'm probably in the minority).
Early clicks, dude! Yes this one should be taken with a grain of salt. I imagine ISS Vanguard changes between now and the end of the campaign due to stretch goals and maybe add-ons.
Hi. Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents here but I don't think this video is early at all in the sense of what it is trying to accomplish. Right now both games are available to back and since they are also both story/narrative driven games, and both are very expensive especially all-in, many people are having to make a choice of which one to get. This video might help those people who are seriously interested in both and are struggling to pick based on the information that is out now. Also uh 2021 is right around the corner and by the time first wave ships for ISSV, might be similar time frame for 2nd wave Etherfields. So this video is very helpful in that respect. All that being said, I agree with you that the title shouldn't be called "play this not that" since unless you was a etherfields backer with 2 wave shipping, you aren't actually able to play either of these games right now. Maybe call it "which one to back?" Or "back this not that" but that's kinda nitpicking. I have to say though that the "play this, not that" is my least favorite video series he puts out.
I mean to be fair to him, He enjoys and likes what he got in the 10hr prototype of Iss Vangurad over what he got in 10hrs of the Full game of Etherfields. He's basically saying if the prototype is this good to go over a complete game, then the complete game of Iss Vanguard should be better. While I do Agree that the complete version of Iss Vanguard isn't going to be released any time soon, its impossible for it to be worse then the prototype, based on the amount of content in the base, and based on that the prototype is the base of the Full game. What's funny is I don't even like Iss Vanguard based on what I have seen and I love Etherfields. I just think your a little harsh when its based on his opinion, and how he felt between the two, which he actually has both to compare.
I definitely recognize that and called it out as such....but now is when people have the opportunity to decide. The inherent question is do I put out a more accurate video when it's too late for people to do much, or do I put out a video with a prototype when people are actually making decisions.
@@CheddahSlammer Maybe I was little harsh but this is 5th full video about ISS (+ 1 on Quackalope). I know that he likes it. There's a review, how to play, 2 gameplays, should you back it, play this not that.... and we're still talking about the prototype. When Etherfields was on Kickstarter no one mensioned that there will be any issues with the game. It was all beautiful back then. That was just the hype talk, the same as this one. I just like to put reason before the hype. BTW your arguments are 100% valid to me.
You must be extremely BUSY ! ! ! :-) The holidays, playing games, talking about games, doing videos. Whew... Busy as a bee. :-) Thanks for sharing. I didn't like Etherfield. Hopefully that changes with ISS, because I backed it. To me the ship phase is sort of like customizing a player deck for Marvel Champions:LCG. I enjoy that aspect in MC:LCG, so I think I'll enjoy the ship phase. You did very well in comparing the games, although as you stated one is a prototype.
Glad for these reviews and comparisons. No matter how beautiful these games look, ice realized that I have no interest in playing either. But by golly they are beautiful
My eyes glaze over whenever someone wants to tell all about the dream they had last night. I don't care. Because it's not real. So to make a game about dreams where consequences don't matter because YOU'RE SLEEPING! Does not pull me in - at all.
logiclust that is probably a wise and frugal decision. There are so many games available now that it makes sense to only purchase games you think will work for you and your group otherwise it is just a waste of time and money. There will always be another game out there that will make you forget about these games.
@@BoardGameCo I guess in any sense. You said some of your opinions might change having played 10 hours more and I was just wondering if anything has changed
@@BoardGameCo i want to this game. I want to enter this pledge. This too expensive game because of my country money currecy. I also want , mage knight, jaws of lion, Nemesis, Tainted Grail. But my lack of source i have to choice one. Can you help which one sholuld i choice? Sorry for my English. To play with my wife. we are divinity fans.
Meanwhile that's a big problem I face with board games and it starts to frustrate me more and more - to not have time (but just money) to get those time eating monsters at first and then get aware of, that I'm probably be unable to play them completely.
The cardplay does improve into the next 10 20 hours of etherfields. Just because there will no longer be any trace of the starting cards and your deck will become familiar. Slumbers got worse for me, keep your 'flexible' arrangements with them. Slumbers got more numerous and even more bland. Stick to the dreams and be happy.
My biggest thought is on the Author, the Tainted grail author is back for ISS, and it's no understatement to say that TG is by far the best constructed and written story in a boardgame of all time. From what I can see of ISS, which is following the idea used in the new aliens movies of our dna having a map to... something...., the writing is a head above. If I had to pick one, it would be to see what he could do on his second go in ISS. but from a gameplay perspective I think dice rolls for symbols and upkeep might be a little less interesting than the item/deck buying and overlaying card map building in etherfields.
@@BoardGameCo well, for me the door was just standing there the entire time. no secrets. But I guess my solution is not for everybody. I am a board-game player, not a collector.
Hey Alex, nice video as always. I don't think it is entirely fair to keep calling the optional minis a con as they are an optional buy. It is definitely fair pointing out that if people do not care for minis, they should not get them as they do not add much. But I always thought it was nice that they make them optional buys rather than adding extra cost to the core box and forcing you to get them. At that point I think it would be much more of a con. Though maybe I am biased as I do like to paint them. :)
Emiel De Paepe there are both optional and core box minis and I can see where adding minis to the core box is a con. If they don’t add much to the game, which it sounds like they don’t, then it is just a cost and box hog and I could see those as a con. In addition some people fomo or some people are completionists and it becomes a negative to them because of the reason Alex already mentioned. I am backing iss vanguard, but without the optional minis because of cost and shelf space. These over produced shelf hogs are really killing me. 😳😂
@@Therisktaker3 Yea that is fair. It seems to be the model AR has been using now for their recent games; Tainted Grail had it, Etherfields had it, and now ISS Vanguard. I personally prefer it to stuffing them in the core box for no reason; as that at least gives people the option. The core box only contains player minis and other you will use a lot; all the extra bling is moved to another box. And as far as I know they have always stated with these boxes that they are not needed for gameplay but just are there for people who would like the extra immersion. So to me they serve the exact purpose they were designed for.
The thing is AR tends to sell their mini's for double the intended price, and they are considered in the middle range. Even the core of these games have mini's that up the base price of the game. Like if you calculate the exact cost of each mini in the just mini box for Iss Vanguard, you can figure out the cost of each mini, which is around 2$. Factoring that in to the Core Box which has 8 mini's that's 16$ added to the core box, which you don't need. This is all without shipping cost.
@@BoardGameCo I totally respect that since the more grandiose games tend to build on you after delving deeper into them. I feel like etherfields is a quick way for them to make a buck on a flawed expensive game. For a company that gets that kind of excitement and backing. It’s a let down like the ps5 release. Greedy corporate agendas. I could easily be wrong. Enjoy your channel and content thanks for the entertainment 👍
I'm going to disagree with the notion that the miniatures are unnecessary, or at least the absence doesn't detract from the overall game. Indeed, I think that at $100, eight miniatures is a slim offering. If I weren't already thinking about pledging above the core box, and might walk away. Moreover, the core box has no spotlight miniature, like Etherfields has. The presence of miniatures is also, to some extent, a hedge against a bad game. They might be recycled into other games, and painting is a valid aspect of the hobby as well. Furthermore, I wouldn't dismiss the importance of the miniatures to the game. Aesthetics--along with ease of play, mechanics,simulation, challenge, and narrative--is an essential component of any game. Not only does it sell the game to the purchaser, it also helps her/him to entice friends to play the game as well. It also conveys information. Being colorblind, standees--which are ok--don't convey information as quickly or effectively as a three dimensional figure. I know that there will be people who will think that the core box is fine as is, but I don't think that they will do their fellow players any favors by doing do.
I think he meant that the extra box of miniatures outside of the core box is not necessary. They don't seem to spend much time actually in game play and they actually add maintenance and slow down the game slightly. They do look cool though.
even if custom dice are more expensive than 32mm minatures, I agree I miss the signature miniature even if the production of iss is far more expensive to pull of from a manufacturing standpoint.
@@PeteQuad And I am referring as well to the miniatures in the second box. The fact is that it is not yet obvious how much use they have,or if there is some variable aspect in either game that might make them more prevalent in other plays.
@@PeteQuad What Alex has is not necessarily the complete game. At least in the past, AR's prototypes have only included a few scenarios rather than the full product.
If this video gets 1k likes, Quackalope said he'd do a similar video for Tainted Grail vs ISS Vanguard :)
Exactly what I was looking for👌. It will be interesting once you’ve had time to play tainted grail and revisit this. Compare and contrast the three!
This time I'm more into the quack review (if it happens sometime), because etherfields it's not my kind of theme so... tainted grail and iss are two that really interests me more. But really nice video with great points to argue about, like usual. 👍👍
haha cute!
76 likes to go!
@@jRoy7 54 likes to go!
The best thing about this channel is that, though you have strong opinions on the games you like and the games you don't, you seem very aware that not everyone "games" the way you do. It's easy to watch your channel, hear what you have to say, and NOT want to pound your ignorant face in. You're like the antithesis of a conceited game snob. I wish there were more channels like yours. Keep up the good work!
I really appreciate that, genuinely means a lot.
I knew I would be backing ISS vanguard as soon as I saw the game play video with quackalope. That bit when he accidentally wiped out the life you found and the fact he genuinely looked shocked and a tad upset by his actions. That’s incredible for me and that Immersion in a game to actually care about what you are doing in a game makes it a win for me all over.
Still don't know what to think about ISS Vanguard, and i've watched most of the UA-cam vids available...
I'm a huge sci-fi fan, so the theme, the story and the art really appeal to me. But for a good sci-fi story, i could as well read again some of my favorite books by David Brin, Larry Niven or Arthur Clarke... and for the "immersion" feel, videogames usually do the trick better: Mass Effect, No Man's Sky, or even all the Metroids...
I really get what they're tryin' to achieve here, and i respect that kind of dedication and passion... but as you've said, gameplay IS important for many of us, and when it comes to board games, the strategy and the gameplay mechanics are the most important aspects for me, not the look, the components or even the story, even if the "whole" package is always better...
I really wish they'd go for a good deckbuilding instead of dices, as it would be so close to the kind of "Mage Knight/Gloomhaven in space" crossover i dream about... will i back this as it is? I still don't have a clue... but thanks for all your efforts anyway... :)
Definitely hear what you're saying and it echoes my thoughts as well. I'm still totally on the fence with ISS. Since game mechanics are important, have you looked into Unsettled as compared to ISS?
Didn't really think about This at first glance, but my god you're so damn right, This game would be 100000000000x better as a deck building
@@JohnClem56 Don't know much about Unsettled, no, just watched a long playthrough and wasn't really convinced either... but many people compare it to ISS Vanguard these days, so it may be a good tip... wait and see i guess...
I’m going to respectfully disagree on the need of yet another legacy deck builder. For just Awaken Realms there is already Etherfields and Tainted Grail, than of course there is Gloomhaven and Frosthaven from Cephalofair? Deck Builders have more then their share and hate to see it become the “go to” for legacy games.
@@richardcarneski8789 Fair point, but for me, amongst these, Gloomhaven is the only one to have done it "right" so far, so there's no real market saturation. :)
I'm not a huge fan of campain/legacy games (still waiting for Aeon's End & Clank legacies to be translated in french, though), but anyway, most have quite a generic fantasy theme, so i think there's still room for the kind of well written, sci-fi epic i'd like to play.
And when it comes to gameplay, i think deckbuilding still has many tricks under its sleeve. Maybe some talented devs out there will dig for more in a near future, as we live in a kind of "board games golden age", as Alex quite often says in his videos... i hope so anyway...
Ya bastard you've convinced me to buy ISS vanguard even after spending so much this holiday season
I apologize....sort of.
He does that to me ALL THE TIME!!! At some point I may wise up and stop watching his videos. ..... Errr.... Nah... who am I kidding. That won't happen. :-)
Vanguard reminds me more of this war of mine. Where they have incorporated the journal and the house into the one folder and the night time adventures now take place in an upgraded near and far esque map book as opposed to on cards and in the story book
Came to the same conclusion twice, once when I skipped Etherfields once it was out on Kickstarter because I felt it was a little convoluted and not my genre. The second time now when I pledged to Vanguard cause I love Science Fiction and the ship phase seems really attractive to me (I also enjoy the bookkeeper at the end of each Gloomhaven scenario). Maybe someone should some day tell Marcin and the guys from AR that nobody seems to like the grinding elements of their games?
I hopped on Etherfields in the PM and after reading all these reviews I saw the repeating pattern of a grind in AR games (already experienced this in Tainted Grail). This is actually the first time I reached out to the publisher and asked them to cancel my pledge. I'm very happy I did that because now having seen gameplay videos, I really needed the gameplay of this game to be solid but it just isn't for me and theme and story just are not enough to keep me engaged.
Same here. Backed Etherfields last month as soon as the pledge manager reopened to everyone.... then proceeded to get inundated with the same complaints (rule book, game board, tedious/repetative slumbers, lack of any structured storyline) and finally decided to cancel my pledge and request a refund.
That's reasonable. I just skipped it but I get it.
@@BoardGameCo They made a Dream-only-mode and to be frankly, there are also lots of reviews that say, that these dreams are awesome. So why don't give this a chance? I'll do so at least. :)
Your videos are fun to watch because there are no skits or skips or cuts at all. Shalom brother.
Thank you!
thanks for this one Alex!
I've seen in the latest KS update of etherfields they are doing some re-works for the second wave of shipping.
- they are adding a play method that will skip/reduce the repetitive slumbers, resulting in 20-30 hour campaign of dreamwalking
- they are designing a horizontal board rather than the cumbersome vertical.
knowing this, does that change your final verdict?
Do note that the horizontal board will only be made available as a high res image download.
Trust me if you have played 8 hours of Etherfields you haven't even begun or experienced anything of the game it does evolve later on with the slumbers almost like the creators knew you would be fed up to the back teeth of slumbers, my friend and I are 70+ hours into the game, we are taking a break as we are closing into finishing the 1st campaign and I am painting up all the mini's, we will be back for campaign 2 though. I haven't received my copy of ISS Vanguard yet but looking forward to, this is one I am looking to play solo.
We need a Board Game Co tee-shirt that says “ To Be Clear…” on the front in bold white letters and then on the back has a list of games that are leaving the collection. I’d throw $20 at that all day. 😂😂
Just a thought, could the reason your not interested in the story of Etherfields be because of the theme. Between these two games, we have too distinct themes. Etherfields is more of mystery and you don't know what your really getting, and its all strange and can be random at times, because its based on Dreams. While on the other Hand Iss Vanguard seems very straight forward space exploration theme, it might be random in terms of events that happen to you on planets, but it isn't a strange world were anything can happen.
100% it could be....at the end of the day this is inherently subjective :)
Thanks Alex! Question for you! I've noticed with a lot of AR games that the extra minis have little-to-no gameplay function.
You touched on this for ISS Vanguard's Close Encounter expansion and it sounds like the minis would replace tokens? So that at least means they serve a purpose in the game as a deluxified component? I'm just looking for more info on this. I don't want minis if they serve no function and their purpose is to add ambiance like in Tainted Grail.
They add ambiance, they'll move around the board here and there but minimal impact.
@@BoardGameCo Thanks for the help Alex! And Merry Christmas to you and the family!!
Is there any grinding in ISS Vanguard? No one saw the grinding problem in Etherfields and Tainted Grail until they receive the final game
Not that I saw in my 8 hours on the prototype
I play Etherfields with my wife and she loves it.
I asked my gamegroup and my wife for ISSV and noone was interested. I dont want to play it solo for that cost, so easy pass for me.
My gamegroup on the other hand want to play Etherfields, but i dont know if i can run 2 campaigns.
I really want to play vanguard solo, i cant see my group playing it but I do love the theme and I think being able to go at my own pace (not the group's pace) will make this a rewarding experience for me and something to do when the group arent available.
One thing that I don't have very clear from your gameplay of ISS Vanguard, can you visit planets several times to uncover areas that you didn't manage to see on previous landings?
Yes :)
Just a friendly nitpicky suggestion, you tend to frequently mention 7th Continent as a point of reference when talking about “narrative” games, but I don’t actually believe 7th Continent is a narrative game. It’s a survival exploration game with very little narrative. It might give people the wrong the idea if 7th Continent is the closest thing they’ve played to a narrative game and they go into something like ISS Vanguard expecting a similar experience. I think it’s a pretty vastly different experience and an altogether different category of game. Games like Tainted Grail, Folklore, Near and Far, and Forgotten Waters might be better comparisons. Just my unsolicited 2 cents. Thanks for the great videos.
That's a fair point. I mentally bunch them in the category due to the weaker gameplay and narrative arc behind the exploration but you're right that the story is more abstracted.
It's funny how much minis can become a dividing issue. Some seem to back almost just for the minis and others decry the cost that minis add to the game. For me the 7th Continent minis were too small to be useful and the Etherfields minis were too big to be useful (so I'm glad I didn't get them). What about theme? Do you think fantasy vs science fiction would have a meaningful impact on which game people would like more?
I also heard that the slumbers can be very repetitive and make people want to skip them. But is this not like a jrpg where you are allowed to skip fights but in doing so you won't be able to grind/level up? Did you have this mindset going in?
Similar idea, but no, didn't no going in.
Hi!
It's a dream. You (we) don't have to impact the story, i has to impact us. We do not control our dreams !!!!!
How do you think the slumbers fit into the story?
Why are they there?
Have you uncovered the Deliverance deck? (If not go further, else Aren't you curious about the slumbers?)
Thx!
I guess the slumbers are like recurring nightmares since childhood.
Yeah I think its the difference between the two themes. One he has more control, while the other he feels is random.
You're arguing why it should be that way....but that doesn't impact how it does or doesn't pull me in.
How do you feel ISS Vanguard would play with 2-4 players? Enjoyed playing Gloomhaven with my group but as a tactics game we were all involved in the action. 7th Continent I only played with one friend as I felt it wasn't interactive enough to keep all four playing. Would this be enjoyable for four or is it best as a solo story?
I imagine 2 is best, but I can see 3-4 being good too.
I'll just say this:
1) Tainted Grail --> Danger exploration + grind to keep locations (Menhirs) alive + conflict mechanics are overbearing = survival (theme)
2) Etherfields --> Evolving exploration + grind to improve character's (Dreamer) knowledge + conflict mechanics are fluid and simple = nebulous (theme)
3) ISS Vanguard --> Knowledge exploration + grind to support resources (Vanguard) + conflict mechanics are statistical = learning (theme)
Three out of three times, Awaken Realms nails the thematic game experience of these story-driven games. There is no 'This OR That'. True thematic gamers will only see 'This AND That'.
You forgot TWoM -> hunting/searching for usable stuff + statics management + house developement -> overal surviving = civilian in war (theme)
Nemesis as well as LoH although has this survival aspect (in solo mode of LoH) but without the great story telling
the grind in TG and Etherfields has me passing on both, I dont see ISS Vanguard as having a grind
@@cyberleish there is no grind in etherfields either and in TG it depends on your playstyle, if you want to squeeze out every tiny thing it is grinding but if you just follow the main storyline and use story mode it is not grinding. And how can you say it is without playing it? cheers
@@grischakugelmann2660 around 10 hours of watching playthroughs for each game gives an idea, plus listening to the reviews of people I've learned to trust. Maybe the final game of ISS Vanguard will have a grind, who knows, but i do know there are repetitive elements of both the other games which I dont really want to have to put up with. Personal opinion of course.
@@cyberleish because of reviews i bought GH and in my opinion it is a game with a boring story, bad components and you need to destroy the components or pay extra for metal stickers. The card mechanic is good but very random and it is totally of balanced if you try various player-counts and -levels. The setup time for a single 'dungeon' is like 20 min for a 10-12 min playing time (that's why lion roar exist) and the loot is unbalanced too (the developer had to change it by request for FH). The art of cards is rudimentary (my 7 years old daughter does better drawings) and the retirement thing can be painful if you get retired by default and loose your loved character in lvl 2 because of a chest. I will never again buy a game because someone rated it good, i watch reviews but i look at what i am seeing and reading and will decide by my self. I own almost all AR and AR Lite games and not regret a single one of them. Build your own opinion by reading the rules and listening to backers (not people who watch reviewers and copy their thoughts before even getting a game). Stupid things like 'i will sell my unopened copy because of the bad review'. cheers
Alex, I am totally with you! the ship phase seems, for me, by far the most appelaing part of the whole thing because it is where you do experience the sense of continuity, change and gorwth of Vanguard and its crew.
Yes!
Hey, what do you think the chances are that awaken realms will do a late pledge nearer the time when the first wave shipping starts to get delivered! Similar to what they did with etherfields. Really want this game but just after Christmas, money is tight.
Likely. No guarantee but likely.
Was hoping you would have some insider info haha. Thanks anyway I may have to back now...
do you think the newly announced updated Continuous Dream Mode would alleviate the gripe you have with the slumbers on Etherfields?
I assume so, but I already have zero problems with it...just skipping them :)
Alex, have you been in contact with AR concerning the negatives of Etherfield? Do you know whether they are planning to improve things (slumber, walking around dream map, etc.) - now or with wave 2 content? I read the last kickstarter update; they talked about continuous dream mode... but do you have more information?
And how does AR perceive the feedback from all the UA-camrs, Forums, etc.?
Thanks anyways
As I recently bought Etherfields, I would be interested in this as well.
Yes, they already announced in the updates they'll be adding a mode to skip the slumbers in some way.
Correct me if I am wrong but you can already Skip some of the slumbers if it says Skip on the bottom of the Slumber Card. Its also in the rule book.
I really hope you finish the first campaign in Etherfields. There is some good spoiler discussion to be had.
I plan on :)
Comparison between ISS Vanguard and Unsettled by orange nebula would be great, even if you might have not played Unsettled, they seem similar enough to be compared :)
The problem is I just don't know anywhere near enough there.
Hi Alex. Thanks for this as ive really been on the fence with vanguard. As they are both story driven games would you say they are more solo players experience? I know you played with quackalope too but did having 2 or more people involved make the game more rewarding ?
Obviously games are more fun with others but with covid and my wife not being a gamer i am always considering solo player games and i do love a good story
Speaking for myself I'd prefer Etherfields solo, but prefer vanguard with 2. That being said I assume both are good with 2, I haven't played either with more.
Okay now quickly do ISS Vanguard vs Stars of Akarios :) It really seems like Awaken Realm knocks theme out of the park.
Dude! Totally off topic but since you mentioned 7th Continent I must tell you that my copy came in the mail today. I'm pretty psyched about it and I'm gonna play the hell out of it over the holiday.👍
Nice enjoy :)
Darn forgot to ask. Will you be doing a comparison video between USS Freedom and ISS vanguard? Obviously freedom didnt have the big company name behind it but it did seem to have space and ship sections. And you did enjoy it in your video even though it was a.tad more silly. Cheers ! :)
No, those two are significantly different, barely any overlap past theme.
on balance I agree with Alex and I'm paused over the pledge button on ISS Vanguard, but then if asked to pick a single game at a significant purchase point this month I'd probably (almost certainly) late pledge Stars of Akarios
Go for it :) stars didn't intrigue me enough but if it looks right for you...
@@BoardGameCo the initial theme was good for me but it's been the interaction of Brendan (designer) with the community that has my enthusiasm. He released very early versions on tabletopia, engages with the community regularly, released a substantial beta for us to play and feedback, has revamped the enemy AI, released STL files for us to self print. He has looked at what works and borrowed heavily, the space combat gives hex based positional play with a neat dice management system topped with Gloomhaven style attack decks. The bit most haven't seen is the planetary explorations which borrow from tainted grail (but sharper and simpler).
Taking inspirations from Quackalope I see, laying out all the game pieces in a nice and totally natural way! :D Looks good, nice video!
Shhh....don't tell Jesse I totally got inspired by him here.
Can you still get this game right now? @boardgameco
I still see the pledge button but the delivery is in like 2 months
Thanks for the great comparison! I found your opinions on these two different games very interesting. Especially from the perspective of someone who PRACTICALLY plays both games. I am a huge fan of AR (they are my countrymen from Wroclaw, Poland :)) and it is difficult for me to be objective sometimes. I'm still waiting for Etherfields (non-English language versions are, as you know, shipped out later - minimum 3 months) and ISS Vanguard will probably be with me in 2022. But thanks to your movie I jumped into the manager's pledge and paid extra for the figures and the Sphinx campaign. And I became confident that the ISS Vanguard is worth the wait.
Thank you and best regards - you are doing a great job!
PS of course i subscribed to your channel :)
whats really ticking me off with Vanguard i dont want the mini's yet im forced to buy them in the commanders pledge just so i can get the stretch goals..im wondering if that is acutally worth getting or not?
Thank you for another interesting video.
Your skills of expression are quite polished, don't they?
From 15:22 and forth, I couldn't stop wishing that this video is part 1 out of (at least) 2, while part 2 will be your updated impressions after another 10 hours of playing each of them...
I don't mind doing a part 2 down the road...but it would have to wait until I finish both :)
Thanks for the fantastic video! The binder was actually the thing I was most worried about, it puts my mind at ease knowing you enjoy it since your board game tastes seem similar to mine. I'll definitely be backing ISS Vanguard.
Awesome, glad I could help :)
I enjoyed the video. Nice comparison of 2 games that I believe I will enjoy completely. I have Etherfields already and will probably be playing here soon when I get some time with my 2 week vacation. I pledged for ISS Vanguard as well. I do enjoy the story driven aspects of both games.
Thank you so much for this comparison. I have been seduced in Etherfields by the universe which seems be like a deep dive in the inconscient. Still a bit be afraid by the mechanic but I stay on my choice. Thanks to you I have now to pledge also ISS Vanguard for different reasons! Nevertheless the fact that miniatures are only needed by collectors will help. Thank you
Happy the help :)
Hi, Awaken Realms just released the Continuous Dream Mode (to basically avoid Slumbers) in today's update
Nice!
Would not be nice to see a comparison between ether fields vs Dawn of Madness that still in late pledge as well?
Sadly never played Dawn of madness.
Good comparison.
Shame that Awaken Realms couldn't figure out Canadian Shipping before launching the campaign. They say they'll try to get better pricing, but can't back it on the hopes they'll do it. So it's a hard pass on ISS Vanguard. Shipping shouldn't be 1/3 of the games overall cost, and Canada shouldn't have the most expensive shipping in the world.
Meanwhile, I'm all-in on Vindication which has FREE shipping to Canada.
I think KoA said that some manufacturers will take a hit on some parts of their game to make sure part of their loyal fan base arent disenfranchised. What he actually said is they could take less of a profit on the Canadian ones (not a loss, just less of a profit). I know from the Stars of Akarios KS that they are taking a hit on vat (rather than passing it on as an added expense) and are sticking to a translation promise despite the emerging costs, a new company learning from experience but making sure the customer isn't hit.
Very interesting points! Personally I am in the "danger zone", having started backing big games with The Everrain and Bloodborne (both of which haven't delivered yet), I am still backing too many games. So while I will be getting both ISS and Etherfields, it was interesting to see how you contrasted them!
Oh trust me, I know the problem here :)
On the subject of the Mini's Tainted grail is the same they dont come out all that often and are completely not needed but the minis are so amazing ( and me not being huge on minis ) that after playing my friends copy of Tainted grail I went ahead and added the minis to Etherfields and will do so as well with Vanguard
I love your comparison videos.
Thanks :)
Thanks for making the video.
Happy to :)
The Miniatures are from ether fields and sundroped ?
Yes, and iss.
Thanks for the video. This helped solidify my decision to not back ISS. Well, okay, solidify my decision to back at $1
Lol I love how you leaving yourself that opening :)
Damn, so many games in this genre too choose from! ISS Vanguard or 7th Citadel? I'm concerned about awakened realms' track record of using grind to fill in the hours. But the hype is real on this one. Which is the better back!?
Funny how 4 years had past since this video and im still waiting for my copy of the game...
I haven't played the narative games you have mentioned. In board game form, I've played some Legacy games (Pandemic, Betrayal, etc.), Tales of the Arabian Nights is about it. But also play pen and paper RPGs. How do you feel ISS Vangard lines up as a narrative game compared to those? I feel I'm missing base connection to understand what I would be getting into if I backed.
I have to say the SD&SU review of Etherfields really scared me away from that one, as unclear rules really do get on my nerves. Because I could just read a book for a great story, mechanics and choice are why I'm looking at stories in board game form. But if it's a mess, I would rather not bother, lol.
As always, you do an amazing job, keep it up and I look forward to more!
I guess you know about the new Continuous Dream Mode that Awaken Realms is working on (to drastically reduce the slumber phase). It would be interesting to see what you think about it when they release it :) Just to know if it actually solves the bad aspect of Etherfields you mention in the video
Yep, very interested :)
Thanks again Alex, for a well constructed opinionated video. I am onboard with that. And the arguments you put on the table is probably also the reason I did not back Etherfields (after three attempts to do so) and am backing ISS Vanguard.
My question for you, looking at the ton of minis in the Etherfields game and add-on of the commanders pledge for ISS Vanguard, why you still feel the need to have the minis if they are not, or maybe 3%, necessary?
I must say that the ones from Etherfields, although gorgeous, seem convoluting the game and the unique ones in ISS Vanguard have maybe (because of different bio-systems and bio-domes to be build) just a pinch more value. In all playthroughs I've seen, the behemoth got pulled out once or two, and did not even see any standees. You reckon' the game doesn't need any, at this point (10 hours)?
last year i really discovered that narrative games are great for me...so i pick both:)..also expect a lot from isofarian guard on a narrative aspect
Vanguard looks good, but ~50% shipping (core pledge) plus import fees to Canada take it out of my reach.
I was going to go all-in, but because of the shipping and import fees to Canada, I'm hoping to pick it up at retail.
Ya the shipping sucks to canada sorry :(
ISS Vanguard is more my style of IP, however, I do admit I have a few of the same concerns. I love the style of narration but I also do like tactical combat sprinkled in. I’ve all in backed it so I guess I’ll find out first hand. I do have a lot of faith in Awaken Realms at this point delivering me a great game outside my comfort zone.
I am pretty sure you will love the story TG will bring to you, maybe until you get your vanguard copy you will manage to go through all 3 campaigns. ;)
I have an all in for it :)
@@BoardGameCo i know ;)
did you play etherfields 2.0 ?
We need a Iss vs tainted grail :)
ISS late pledge is coming, and I still cant decide between these two :)
Isn't it a bit early? We're still talking about a prototype game that will be released in IX 2021 (maybe), aren't we? Should we watch this video when both games will be available? I'm confused. What if the final ISS game will change to a degree where this video is no longer valid? Maybe this video shouldn't actually be titled "play this, not that" because at the time it's being posted it's actually impossible (almost for everyone) to play ISS. I just don't feel comfortable watching all those hype-related videos (I'm probably in the minority).
Early clicks, dude! Yes this one should be taken with a grain of salt. I imagine ISS Vanguard changes between now and the end of the campaign due to stretch goals and maybe add-ons.
Hi. Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents here but I don't think this video is early at all in the sense of what it is trying to accomplish. Right now both games are available to back and since they are also both story/narrative driven games, and both are very expensive especially all-in, many people are having to make a choice of which one to get. This video might help those people who are seriously interested in both and are struggling to pick based on the information that is out now. Also uh 2021 is right around the corner and by the time first wave ships for ISSV, might be similar time frame for 2nd wave Etherfields. So this video is very helpful in that respect.
All that being said, I agree with you that the title shouldn't be called "play this not that" since unless you was a etherfields backer with 2 wave shipping, you aren't actually able to play either of these games right now. Maybe call it "which one to back?" Or "back this not that" but that's kinda nitpicking. I have to say though that the "play this, not that" is my least favorite video series he puts out.
I mean to be fair to him, He enjoys and likes what he got in the 10hr prototype of Iss Vangurad over what he got in 10hrs of the Full game of Etherfields. He's basically saying if the prototype is this good to go over a complete game, then the complete game of Iss Vanguard should be better. While I do Agree that the complete version of Iss Vanguard isn't going to be released any time soon, its impossible for it to be worse then the prototype, based on the amount of content in the base, and based on that the prototype is the base of the Full game. What's funny is I don't even like Iss Vanguard based on what I have seen and I love Etherfields. I just think your a little harsh when its based on his opinion, and how he felt between the two, which he actually has both to compare.
I definitely recognize that and called it out as such....but now is when people have the opportunity to decide. The inherent question is do I put out a more accurate video when it's too late for people to do much, or do I put out a video with a prototype when people are actually making decisions.
@@CheddahSlammer Maybe I was little harsh but this is 5th full video about ISS (+ 1 on Quackalope). I know that he likes it. There's a review, how to play, 2 gameplays, should you back it, play this not that.... and we're still talking about the prototype. When Etherfields was on Kickstarter no one mensioned that there will be any issues with the game. It was all beautiful back then. That was just the hype talk, the same as this one. I just like to put reason before the hype. BTW your arguments are 100% valid to me.
You must be extremely BUSY ! ! ! :-) The holidays, playing games, talking about games, doing videos. Whew... Busy as a bee. :-)
Thanks for sharing. I didn't like Etherfield. Hopefully that changes with ISS, because I backed it.
To me the ship phase is sort of like customizing a player deck for Marvel Champions:LCG. I enjoy that aspect in MC:LCG, so I think I'll enjoy the ship phase.
You did very well in comparing the games, although as you stated one is a prototype.
Glad for these reviews and comparisons. No matter how beautiful these games look, ice realized that I have no interest in playing either. But by golly they are beautiful
They are indeed :)
My eyes glaze over whenever someone wants to tell all about the dream they had last night. I don't care. Because it's not real. So to make a game about dreams where consequences don't matter because YOU'RE SLEEPING! Does not pull me in - at all.
Consequences sort of matter...just a different system :)
ISSV peaked my interest but no-one else in my group is interested. sadly, I doubt I'll spend the $100 just for the solo exp
You can always sell it later...
Agreed with Ewelina...if it sits on you shelf that's one thing but it would likely sell later.
logiclust that is probably a wise and frugal decision. There are so many games available now that it makes sense to only purchase games you think will work for you and your group otherwise it is just a waste of time and money. There will always be another game out there that will make you forget about these games.
Alex, changing subject - can a person send you a message less public? I simply have an idea to share with BoardgameCo. Thanks.
Yep, email in the description.
I’d love to hear an update to see if your opinion has changed
In what sense? I still prefer ISS if that makes sense.
@@BoardGameCo I guess in any sense. You said some of your opinions might change having played 10 hours more and I was just wondering if anything has changed
@@BoardGameCo has your overall scores of the games gone up or down?
I want iss vanguard but when I entered site I cannot buy this game why?
Late pledges haven't opened yet...they will.
@@BoardGameCo i want to this game. I want to enter this pledge. This too expensive game because of my country money currecy. I also want , mage knight, jaws of lion, Nemesis, Tainted Grail. But my lack of source i have to choice one. Can you help which one sholuld i choice? Sorry for my English. To play with my wife. we are divinity fans.
What happens to that sweet prototype now?
An excellent question....
@@BoardGameCo I can supply desired answers if you need XD
Same choice for me.
Nice :)
Basically, huge time hogs you' ll never complete. if you got more than 10 games, just forget tg, etherfields,gloomhaven or iss vanguard.
probably right but have Gloomhaven, getting Oathsworn, Hel, Akarios, Frosthaven and possible ISS Vanguard...
Yes, we have to be mindful of our time for sure.
Meanwhile that's a big problem I face with board games and it starts to frustrate me more and more - to not have time (but just money) to get those time eating monsters at first and then get aware of, that I'm probably be unable to play them completely.
The cardplay does improve into the next 10 20 hours of etherfields. Just because there will no longer be any trace of the starting cards and your deck will become familiar.
Slumbers got worse for me, keep your 'flexible' arrangements with them. Slumbers got more numerous and even more bland. Stick to the dreams and be happy.
Good to know on both counts, thanks.
I was looking for Etherfields but ISS Vanguard had me at sci-fi theme.
I dont have time for two big narrative games so I'm picking ISS
Yep, I like both but would go that way.
@@BoardGameCo I get both :) But ISS without extra-minis
My biggest thought is on the Author, the Tainted grail author is back for ISS, and it's no understatement to say that TG is by far the best constructed and written story in a boardgame of all time. From what I can see of ISS, which is following the idea used in the new aliens movies of our dna having a map to... something...., the writing is a head above. If I had to pick one, it would be to see what he could do on his second go in ISS.
but from a gameplay perspective I think dice rolls for symbols and upkeep might be a little less interesting than the item/deck buying and overlaying card map building in etherfields.
After watching multiple previews for both the answer for me is easy:
Between Vanguard and Etherfields I choose....... Gloomhaven.
You found the secret door!
@@BoardGameCo well, for me the door was just standing there the entire time. no secrets. But I guess my solution is not for everybody. I am a board-game player, not a collector.
Hey Alex, nice video as always. I don't think it is entirely fair to keep calling the optional minis a con as they are an optional buy. It is definitely fair pointing out that if people do not care for minis, they should not get them as they do not add much. But I always thought it was nice that they make them optional buys rather than adding extra cost to the core box and forcing you to get them. At that point I think it would be much more of a con. Though maybe I am biased as I do like to paint them. :)
Emiel De Paepe there are both optional and core box minis and I can see where adding minis to the core box is a con. If they don’t add much to the game, which it sounds like they don’t, then it is just a cost and box hog and I could see those as a con. In addition some people fomo or some people are completionists and it becomes a negative to them because of the reason Alex already mentioned. I am backing iss vanguard, but without the optional minis because of cost and shelf space. These over produced shelf hogs are really killing me. 😳😂
@@Therisktaker3 Yea that is fair. It seems to be the model AR has been using now for their recent games; Tainted Grail had it, Etherfields had it, and now ISS Vanguard. I personally prefer it to stuffing them in the core box for no reason; as that at least gives people the option. The core box only contains player minis and other you will use a lot; all the extra bling is moved to another box. And as far as I know they have always stated with these boxes that they are not needed for gameplay but just are there for people who would like the extra immersion. So to me they serve the exact purpose they were designed for.
The thing is AR tends to sell their mini's for double the intended price, and they are considered in the middle range. Even the core of these games have mini's that up the base price of the game. Like if you calculate the exact cost of each mini in the just mini box for Iss Vanguard, you can figure out the cost of each mini, which is around 2$. Factoring that in to the Core Box which has 8 mini's that's 16$ added to the core box, which you don't need. This is all without shipping cost.
Awaken Realms titles are a big don't buy flag for me...
Why?
Not expired, depleted.
Yep.
IMO there’s way to many new games coming out constantly to waste time on a clunky difficult rules game like etherfields. Etherfields get out of here.😯
I respect that choice :) Not the one I'm making but completely makes sense.
@@BoardGameCo I totally respect that since the more grandiose games tend to build on you after delving deeper into them. I feel like etherfields is a quick way for them to make a buck on a flawed expensive game. For a company that gets that kind of excitement and backing. It’s a let down like the ps5 release. Greedy corporate agendas. I could easily be wrong. Enjoy your channel and content thanks for the entertainment 👍
I'm going to disagree with the notion that the miniatures are unnecessary, or at least the absence doesn't detract from the overall game. Indeed, I think that at $100, eight miniatures is a slim offering. If I weren't already thinking about pledging above the core box, and might walk away. Moreover, the core box has no spotlight miniature, like Etherfields has. The presence of miniatures is also, to some extent, a hedge against a bad game. They might be recycled into other games, and painting is a valid aspect of the hobby as well.
Furthermore, I wouldn't dismiss the importance of the miniatures to the game. Aesthetics--along with ease of play, mechanics,simulation, challenge, and narrative--is an essential component of any game. Not only does it sell the game to the purchaser, it also helps her/him to entice friends to play the game as well. It also conveys information. Being colorblind, standees--which are ok--don't convey information as quickly or effectively as a three dimensional figure. I know that there will be people who will think that the core box is fine as is, but I don't think that they will do their fellow players any favors by doing do.
I think he meant that the extra box of miniatures outside of the core box is not necessary. They don't seem to spend much time actually in game play and they actually add maintenance and slow down the game slightly. They do look cool though.
even if custom dice are more expensive than 32mm minatures, I agree I miss the signature miniature even if the production of iss is far more expensive to pull of from a manufacturing standpoint.
@@PeteQuad And I am referring as well to the miniatures in the second box. The fact is that it is not yet obvious how much use they have,or if there is some variable aspect in either game that might make them more prevalent in other plays.
Oh. I thought it was clear what the use was in ISS Vanguard.
@@PeteQuad What Alex has is not necessarily the complete game. At least in the past, AR's prototypes have only included a few scenarios rather than the full product.