Wow. This is a very comprehensive review. I just ordered the Shogun Inferno, and was looking for a video review and found this. You cover a lot of features very, very well. Thanks.
love the level of explanation on this video of the features, so helpful! hope to find more videos like this as I learn this device. only wish I could see your screen a little better
I bought the ninja flame thought it was an amazing piece of work. Which it is. But it's very limited to the camera settings that are on the camera that is connected to it. For example if your camera only shoots 1080p 30fps then that's all your gonna get recording with ninja. Maybe people are aware of this I'm not sure. I knew that if I did not have a 4K camera I could not record 4K on the ninja that makes sense, but what I didn't know was that I could not record any higher frame rate then my camera settings were allowed which kind of sucks. Would have been nice to record 120fps but I guess it doesn't work like that.
Nice review but just as a recommendation. I would have preferred a tighter shot position on your recording. It would have helped the viewers see more of what you are doing and explaining on the Atomos. Just a recommendation to think of. Nice work.
raztechstudios definitely. And perhaps get out of your cave there and *show* the product being used in some common situations-- maybe even with a mirrorless camera and a video camera? Very informative video, though. Thumbs up.
So the ATOMOS HDR monitoring mode is like a more realistic Exposure Index? I adjust the slider until the scene looks right or matches the actual scene, then I adjust the camera's exposure until the waveform fills in the space within the boundary?
Thanks for that comprehensive review, Richard. I am using a GH4 in Vlog and really like to the the full potential out of HDR using the a bit older Ninja Assassin. So the actual worfklow would be to: - set profile to Camera Panasonic, VLOG - expose my GH4 to reach the maximum clipping line in the histogram - dial back the HDR slider for a comfortable view - what about the general brightness of the monitor? Does it impact my recording? Is that correct?
Hi, for the last point i could say that it will not have an impact on your recording. I for myself have a lot of trouble with a GH4 and the Ninja Flame, and the Atomos support is horrible. This is actually the first video i found, that is a bit helpfull and i understand it the way you do. I shoot that way now, but my GH4 is clipping really soon and the Flame ist not really displaying what i see. Yes you can see more details in the highlights, but the darker parts of the signal are pitchblack in display. When you look at the Screen it seems that the Ninja Flame just darkens the image to show the highlights and i thought i could see the whole dynamic.
Hello! Maybe a newbie question if you dont mind: Does the Ninja Flame can record 4K and downscale the footage to 1080p prores? And then import that down scaled footage to my computer?
Does the Atoms Ninja Flame support 1) Blackmagic Cameras (or will it in future) with their particular log curves 2) The panasonic G7 with its Cinelike-D profile.
Hi there, 1). Ninja Flame will work with BMD cameras, however AtomHDR monitoring is not supported with BMD cameras as Atomos only have Log support built-in for Canon, Sony, Panasonic, JVC, RED and ARRI log curves and gamuts at this time. F-Log which is being introduced by Fuji will come as an update in time, but BMD current don’t share their Log-curve information outside of BMD so there is no planned integration for BMD’s log. 2). The Ninja Flame is compatible with the Panasonic G7 as a 4K monitor-recorder, however the G7 does not support V-Log so AtomHDR is not usable with the G7. All other functions are supported and if you want to use the G7’s Cine-like profiles then loading in Custom 3D LUTs would be an advisable workflow for achieving a certain ‘look’.
I had my Shogun Inferno some time ago and these two modes: "Log to Rec709" and "Atom HDR" was the most useless modes on the device. 1) With Log to Rec709 turned on it was impossible to use ETTR method because monitor convert the signal and hardly clip highlights. More than it, it forces to use ETTL, which is harmful to digital cameras. Since Alexa came to the market, and maybe far earlier when Sony F-900 had their hyphergammas, no one follow by outdated Rec709 standard which expect 6 stops and hard clipping in bright areas. Every self-respecting manufacturer had to accommodate to the rec709 standard at least 10 stops or more using S-curves. In this mode Atomos does not do it, so it become useless for real work. 2) But Atomos did some better conversion algorithm from log to rec709 in Atom-HDR mode. But the funny thing is that this mode has nothing to do with HDR monitor technologies. It is just the same log to rec709 conversion with two additional setups: exposure correction and soft clipping (by the way without gamut limiter in highlights). Without doubt this mode has right to exist, especially if Atomos improve this algorithm and make it more film-like as it done in RED cameras or Davinci ACES or pretty much all raw or Log converter engines. But today this mode is not good enough. And damn, this mode should be named Log to Rec709 and replace the first one, haha >_< So I only had to use my own conversion LUTs with exposure corrections unfortunately. 3) HDR monitoring mean that scene-reffered signal will be translated thru the monitor with high degree of compliance to scene brightness. Does your Atom HDR mode do this? Nope. Log to HDR conversion should spread out input scene-reffered signal to the particular screen of the device taking in to consideration the brightness characteristics of it. Which in an ideal situation corresponds to some HDR EOTF standard. That's it. Sorry for my probably bad english, I hope you will understand all this stuff.
This product is amazing, except for two HUGE omissions: ProRes 4444 XQ ( considered to be almost as good as RAW ) and support for Sony's original SLOG. For hundreds of new PMW-F3 owners out there ( myself included ) the latter is a deal breaker. Also we feel "left out" as you've included every other variant of the SLOG C-LOG curves, except for the one that comes with the super popular PMW-F3. For shame Atomos...
Wow. This is a very comprehensive review. I just ordered the Shogun Inferno, and was looking for a video review and found this. You cover a lot of features very, very well. Thanks.
One of the best reviews on UA-cam. Thanks a lot! Will be renting this tomorrow, and after that I'll probably get one myself. Thanks again!
love the level of explanation on this video of the features, so helpful! hope to find more videos like this as I learn this device. only wish I could see your screen a little better
What a great all around review :) I can't wait to get my hands on Ninja Flame. You made me decide that it will be my next upgrade :)
I bought the ninja flame thought it was an amazing piece of work. Which it is. But it's very limited to the camera settings that are on the camera that is connected to it. For example if your camera only shoots 1080p 30fps then that's all your gonna get recording with ninja. Maybe people are aware of this I'm not sure. I knew that if I did not have a 4K camera I could not record 4K on the ninja that makes sense, but what I didn't know was that I could not record any higher frame rate then my camera settings were allowed which kind of sucks. Would have been nice to record 120fps but I guess it doesn't work like that.
What formats can you record 4K HDR to, and how many minutes can you fit per TB of space?
Great explanation!
Nice review but just as a recommendation. I would have preferred a tighter shot position on your recording. It would have helped the viewers see more of what you are doing and explaining on the Atomos. Just a recommendation to think of. Nice work.
raztechstudios definitely. And perhaps get out of your cave there and *show* the product being used in some common situations-- maybe even with a mirrorless camera and a video camera? Very informative video, though. Thumbs up.
Yeah...... What he said...
Glad you liked the video
My flame records up to 100GB and hour. Is there another setting I can use to circumvent such a large file?
So confused.. can't tell difference between, flame, ninja, and assassin. Want to use with Panasonic dvx200 any help?
Excellent!!!!!!!!!!
So the ATOMOS HDR monitoring mode is like a more realistic Exposure Index? I adjust the slider until the scene looks right or matches the actual scene, then I adjust the camera's exposure until the waveform fills in the space within the boundary?
Thanks for that comprehensive review, Richard.
I am using a GH4 in Vlog and really like to the the full potential out of HDR using the a bit older Ninja Assassin.
So the actual worfklow would be to:
- set profile to Camera Panasonic, VLOG
- expose my GH4 to reach the maximum clipping line in the histogram
- dial back the HDR slider for a comfortable view
- what about the general brightness of the monitor? Does it impact my recording?
Is that correct?
Hi, for the last point i could say that it will not have an impact on your recording.
I for myself have a lot of trouble with a GH4 and the Ninja Flame, and the Atomos support is horrible.
This is actually the first video i found, that is a bit helpfull and i understand it the way you do.
I shoot that way now, but my GH4 is clipping really soon and the Flame ist not really displaying what i see.
Yes you can see more details in the highlights, but the darker parts of the signal are pitchblack in display. When you look
at the Screen it seems that the Ninja Flame just darkens the image to show the highlights and i thought
i could see the whole dynamic.
Does the Ninja Flame produce significant fan noise while it’s on? For my application, I need it to be virtually silent.
Hello! Maybe a newbie question if you dont mind: Does the Ninja Flame can record 4K and downscale the footage to 1080p prores? And then import that down scaled footage to my computer?
Does the Atoms Ninja Flame support 1) Blackmagic Cameras (or will it in future) with their particular log curves 2) The panasonic G7 with its Cinelike-D profile.
Hi there, 1). Ninja Flame will work with BMD cameras, however AtomHDR monitoring is not supported with BMD cameras as Atomos only have Log support built-in for Canon, Sony, Panasonic, JVC, RED and ARRI log curves and gamuts at this time. F-Log which is being introduced by Fuji will come as an update in time, but BMD current don’t share their Log-curve information outside of BMD so there is no planned integration for BMD’s log.
2). The Ninja Flame is compatible with the Panasonic G7 as a 4K monitor-recorder, however the G7 does not support V-Log so AtomHDR is not usable with the G7. All other functions are supported and if you want to use the G7’s Cine-like profiles then loading in Custom 3D LUTs would be an advisable workflow for achieving a certain ‘look’.
the shogun flame works with my BMCC
is there still a problem with slog when recording via hdmi?
I had my Shogun Inferno some time ago and these two modes: "Log to Rec709" and "Atom HDR" was the most useless modes on the device.
1) With Log to Rec709 turned on it was impossible to use ETTR method because monitor convert the signal and hardly clip highlights. More than it, it forces to use ETTL, which is harmful to digital cameras. Since Alexa came to the market, and maybe far earlier when Sony F-900 had their hyphergammas, no one follow by outdated Rec709 standard which expect 6 stops and hard clipping in bright areas. Every self-respecting manufacturer had to accommodate to the rec709 standard at least 10 stops or more using S-curves. In this mode Atomos does not do it, so it become useless for real work.
2) But Atomos did some better conversion algorithm from log to rec709 in Atom-HDR mode. But the funny thing is that this mode has nothing to do with HDR monitor technologies. It is just the same log to rec709 conversion with two additional setups: exposure correction and soft clipping (by the way without gamut limiter in highlights). Without doubt this mode has right to exist, especially if Atomos improve this algorithm and make it more film-like as it done in RED cameras or Davinci ACES or pretty much all raw or Log converter engines. But today this mode is not good enough. And damn, this mode should be named Log to Rec709 and replace the first one, haha >_<
So I only had to use my own conversion LUTs with exposure corrections unfortunately.
3) HDR monitoring mean that scene-reffered signal will be translated thru the monitor with high degree of compliance to scene brightness. Does your Atom HDR mode do this? Nope.
Log to HDR conversion should spread out input scene-reffered signal to the particular screen of the device taking in to consideration the brightness characteristics of it. Which in an ideal situation corresponds to some HDR EOTF standard. That's it.
Sorry for my probably bad english, I hope you will understand all this stuff.
This product is amazing, except for two HUGE omissions: ProRes 4444 XQ ( considered to be almost as good as RAW ) and support for Sony's original SLOG. For hundreds of new PMW-F3 owners out there ( myself included ) the latter is a deal breaker. Also we feel "left out" as you've included every other variant of the SLOG C-LOG curves, except for the one that comes with the super popular PMW-F3. For shame Atomos...