Full GARMIN panel upgrade | Piper PA-28-181 Archer
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- I've mentioned in previous videos I did some avionics upgrades in my plane, and several of you have asked what exactly I did.
Here's the cost breakdown follow-up: • GARMIN Costs Detailed ...
What started as a small project to meet the ADS-B mandate and address a bad Attitude Indicator turned into a big one. I upgraded basically the entire panel of my 1980 Piper Archer with Garmin products.
I already had a GTN 650, and I added the GTX 345 transponder, dual G5 EFIS instruments, the GMA 350c audio panel, GTR 225 Com receiver, JPI EDM 830 engine monitor, Flightstream 510, and the GFC 500 Autopilot.
The end result: A very capable hybrid panel that qualified the plane as a Technologically Advanced Aircraft, or TAA.
It's been transformed into a highly capable basic trainer, instrument platform, and incredibly easy cross-country machine. I love it. My leaseback customers love it. What's not to love!?!
I’ve watched a few of your videos over the last couple days and I’m impressed. I’m looking to get back involved with GA after being out of it for twenty five years. So much has changed and I appreciate you taking the time to make these videos.
My pleasure! Glad to hear you’re getting back into GA!
Great video, thanks for taking the time to put it together. I am just finishing an overhaul of a Turbo Arrow and can appreciate how much time and thought went into your overhaul.
Thanks! Big decisions requiring lots of thought and planning to do it right.
Very informative video. Answered a few questions of my own that I had regarding upgrading the panel on an older aircraft. The only thing I would add is giving us some actual numbers on the cost so the sticker shock doesn't hit us in the face if we do a panel upgrade.
Hi, Marie. The info you're looking for is in my follow-up video, here: ua-cam.com/video/rrN0frJGVY4/v-deo.html
THanks!
I love the gi275 they are amazing.
They really are, I agree. The G5s are great in their own way, but the GI275 is definitely an upgrade.
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree I wanted the same as you got but then after thinking about it it just made sense to go circle like they originally came but it’s now up to the current times.
@@the-bu3lb Can't go wrong either way
The Archer is a great platform for this Avionics upgrade. I flew an Archer for several years, and found it to be a very comfortable, forgiving airplane. Adding the dual PFDs engine monitor and updated autopilot makes it a great IFR platform for single pilot operations. The only thing I would do different is get rid of the plastic bezels on the panel, and replace with a flat metal painted panel. I think it looks more modern and cleaner than that late 70’s style plastic.
I know it might not yield an increase in resale price, but certainly upgraded avionics can tip the scale when a purchaser looks at your airplane vs a similar model with all factory gauges.
Thanks, Bill! It’s definitely a great, solid platform for IFR after these upgrades. I agree that a new panel overlay would’ve been a nice cherry on the top, but it was going to be several thousands $$ more, and I had to draw the line somewhere. The extra functionality is greater than aesthetics in my opinion.
Great analysis. Very helpful
Thanks, Max!
Fantastic video, though I have to say I was waiting to hearing a detailed cost breakdown like you did in one of your previous videos. Actually that cost breakdown was the reason I was looking forward to this video. I'd be really glad if you could share that as well.
I seriously considered doing that, but the video was already quite long. I've been thinking it's worth a follow up to discuss the costs, and the shop that did it since I was so pleased with the process.
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree I see, yeah it would probably add 5-10 minutes to the video. Well if you ever decide to do a follow up, I'd be more than happy to "smash that like button" one more time! ;)
Thanks! I figure there's a lot of value in sharing that info so I probably will.
Great video! But PLEASE add information on the costs for all of this. Parts and labor please. I'm currently searching for my first plane so I can put it leaseback thru the rest of my training. And this is exactly the info I need to make a desition on what plane to get. Thanks again and I'm really enjoying the videos. Good job👌🏼
Mike - this and your vids on lease back speak soooo closely to what we are looking to do. Refreshingly positive and transparent! Would definitely like to see the costs. We are likely going to need to add a gtn750 or 650 though cause we just cannot find a plane with one added!!
Good evening Mike. I just found your channel tonight. I watched both your lease back videos and really enjoyed this one. Well done. On a side note, as I watching I was trying to place you. Your face is so familiar, when I was in I was aircrew with the VP squadrons and flew with AWC Webb. But the timelines just don't match as he was a CFI back in the 90s. It then hit me where I had seen you. BZ sir, your talents seem never ending.
Thanks so much, Girard!
Well made. I enjoyed the content and learned something new. I appreciate that you’re explaining things but equally important being succinct. Thanks for putting this together .
My pleasure, Haider. Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice upgrade and better video explaining it! Cheers.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
My favorite aircraft to fly. Kudos to you!
Thanks!
Thanks! Great video. Keep them coming.
More to come!
Really like your style and way of educating your audience, consequently I’ve subscribed and “rung your bell. Well done sir! Keep up the great work.
Thanks, Charles! I appreciate that greatly!
But did you smash that like button?
@@dustinsmith1213 there you go! Hoping everyone does!!! 😂
Nice Tobias bass you have there!
Thanks! And good eye... 😎🤘
Working on my PPL in our club archer with many similar upgrades as you have, minus the improved gauges. Really enjoying the platform so far.
Glad to hear it! The Archer really is a great plane.
Thanks so much Mike. Really enjoyed it.
Glad you like it!
Hey Mike, I just want to give you a shout out. Great videos, they have been very informative, and have really helped a lot. keep up the good work!
Thavks, Nathan! I really appreciate that!
I am looking into getting a plane one day. I think avionics are a great place to spend money. They make the planes safer, you can gain useful load, and when you go to sell it buyers will be more interested.
All true, Trent. Best of luck in getting your own one day.
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree thank you!
Great video! Some of the same upgrades I'm considering shortly 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks! Hope it helps in your decision-making!
Looking at a 182 next week. Hoping I can set it up like this!
Best of luck!
Great video, really deserves more traction on UA-cam. Keep it up!
Thanks, Soren! Tryin. ;)
nice video. gotta say your editing is pretty good. you definitely deserve more subs
Thanks! I’m doing what I can
Great video! Thank you, Mike.
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for the info...
You're welcome!
I rented N3569D last month. Great airplane! If you ever need someone to fly with, I'm down the road in Stafford.
Thanks, Cameron! Glad to hear you enjoyed it! Always looking to fly with other folks who love aviation
That was super helpful, thanks !
Glad it helped!
I'm going off piste here cos I have to say, that's a tasty guitar collection you have there. I'm just waiting for delivery of my Yamaha FG5. Can't wait! There goes a few hours flight time 😕
Ha! There’s always room for playing around flying. Hope you enjoy the new Yamaha!
Dude, you're awesome, calm concise and actfree.
Subscribing)
Thanks, Okuma! Glad you liked it.
Your new panel looks so sick! I can already imagine how enjoyable it is to fly the plane. Now you make me want to upgrade mine as well haha
Go for it!
You sure have appointed my Baby to the fullest!
I did what I could!
Hey Mike! I'm very impressed with your content, this is the sort of content i have been looking for. I'm immigrating to USA next year and i am planning to buy an airplane for personal use. I see this being massively possible going forward with the opportunity of putting my aircraft into a flight school. You have opened my eyes, Thank You! All i can say is keep putting content out there. I look forward to seeing your grow with your channel and all the videos you put out there.
Thanks, Shannon! And best of luck with the move!
Nice work on the upgrade! I’m thinking of picking up a plane with a buddy to continue our training. The leaseback option is also the way to go. I’d like to get some more info from you on this. #cheers
Cheapest way to fly....buying a plane👍👍
I had no idea that Bosch was a pilot...
Great info thank you
You’re welcome, Ron!
Love the new panel. Question, not criticism, wondering why you chose the EDM 830 EIS vs the Garmin GI 275 EIS. Thanks.
Very informative, how much did you spend for the whole setup, please?
I hope to one day soon (2 years or maybe 3) buy a cherokee 6. I would love to install g5's and have the garmin autopilot system. Makes a great minivan of the sky for medium to even more longish trips.
That would be a great setup, indeed.
Very nice upgrades to this day! I got a question for you. On the leaseback you have, do you rent it out at the same price point as the other less advanced aircraft? I know you said in one of your other videos that you scheduled your training on your plane the same way as the other students. So would you schedule it for a set time when you wanted to take it on a long vacation as well? Also, who set the terms and wrote out your agreement for the leaseback? Thank you
Thanks for the questions, favbal2450. My rental price was at a similar price point to the others, so as to keep the activity strong. I scheduled the same as others, and if wanted to take it a long trip the same would apply. I don't think I ever took it for more than 2 nights on a trip -- so it wasn't an issue. The terms of my original agreement were provided by the school, the same as others before me. Over time, I've managed to tweak the terms in ways that I wanted, but it was after establishing a relationship with the school(s).
I wish u had mentioned the cost. That’s the only reason I click on the video
The costs are detailed in the follow up video referenced in the description. All of it.
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree Ok, thank you!
I like planes and I like Gibsons so thumbs up
A good combo, for sure! Glad you liked it!
Need to get a tremonti. Stays in tune better than the lp
Where is the airplane at 2 years later now? I just bought my Archer to leaseback to a school. 😊
How much did this total upgrade cost? I know the price of the equipment but how much in credits did you get, and what was labor cost?
Hi, Bill. I have a follow up video that is referenced in the info above. That details all the costs: labor, materials, etc.
Great video, I got a 1979 Archer II last November as well. Did a big upgrade too, Dual G5's, GMA 242, GTX 375, GNC255, Metal pannel. I would of loved to get an engine monitor and an AP but have to wait for some other time. I am currently getting my CFI and will rent and train in my plane. I am having some Arinc 429 problems and heading issues on the upper G5's. Any clues would be Great. Shop has already tried to fix it but they can't get it right, I think I will have to ask another avionics shop. Thanks for the video....
Nice upgrades! I couldn't swing the cost of a metal panel overlay... would've loved that. But I thought the money was better spent for me on the avionics. Can't offer any tips on the arinc 429 problems... I concur that another shop's opinion may be in order.
I'm doing a very similar setup except I'm going with the GI 275's instead of G-5's. Adding the pitch trim to my setup would be about $4,000 more. I have a 1968 182 without electric trim (maybe that is what makes it so much more....they have to add the electric trim first).
I'm sure you'll be happy with it!
So... whats the cost of actually doing upgrades such as these? 25-50k? more than 50k?
@@motarded4214 Mine was around $30,000.
@@quinnjim Thanks, that was about what I was figuring it would cost. Also makes those planes that are already setup for 15-20k more than similar planes with older avionics look like a better deal too.
I too do a lease back and am getting an avionics upgrade. Question for you, did you increase the hourly rate at which the school pays you after the mod?
I increased the overall rate, yes. The split stayed the same, however.
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree I see thanks.
Maybe you had the cost figures, I just didn’t have 20 minutes to watch the whole video. I certainly would like to see a breakdown of the unit cost and installation cost for each of those items. But I think it’s pretty cool the plane now is certified for all that advanced training.
Thomas, this video breaks down the complete costs. Thanks for watching! GARMIN Costs Detailed | How much to upgrade the avionics panel in PA-28-181 Archer
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree Thank you, can you give me the time in the video where that happens I appreciate it. Thanks
ua-cam.com/video/rrN0frJGVY4/v-deo.html
Starting at 4:00 you will see the actual invoice for everything that was done. Cheers!
I'd love to upgrade my Cherokee 6. Just need to find the money.
I hear you, John!
Hi Mike, great video and upgrades! My friend recently upgraded his 1978 Piper Archer II with 2 Garmin 3x, the 750nxi, and the gfc 500. My question is, does he need a new checklist for the aircraft with those upgrades? Did you need one for yours? If so, where can I find the new checklists? Thanks
I would like to know just how much it all cost? I've been looking at upgrading my KNS80 to a 650, or a used 530W. But then, the autopilot problem comes up.. Then there's the steam gauges... Two G5 would be wonderful... My 79 Archer only has 1479 hrs TT, but I'm 74 years old. How many more years am I going to fly? Would it be worth it? I've had it since 1985 and always considered lease back as a way for me to pay someone else to fly my airplane. Maybe I should re-think that option? Do you actually make any money from leasing?
Hi there. Sounds like any money you spend on your plane is a balance of needs and wants. If you don’t think you’ll be flying very much in the near future, a leaseback could be a good idea If you find the right partner. Or you could sell in this hot market.
I am thinking about doing the same thing with our Sierra. I’m wondering about the difference between the JPI 830 vs 930. I was thinking the 830 was for experimental a/c and I need the 930 for TSO. Do you have any thoughts on that ?
The 830 or 930 will work in certified airplanes, the difference is the 930 is a certified replacement for primary gauges whereas the 830 does not allow the removal of the original, primary gauges.
Nice video. I got a 65 Mooney and I have about 20hrs so far in it. Real lovely plane, but the last 3 flights, I notice the attitude indicator was all over the the place before coming back to life. The last flight was ok, but now I'm wondering if I should get rid of the attitude indicator. Thing is, I have a sandel HSI.
If your AI is failing you could overhaul it or you can replace it with something like a Garmin G5. You don’t have to do a dual install - you’d keep the HSI.
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree I would love to get rid of the vacuum system. I'll keep an eye on it for now. If it continues to fail then I will have to make a decision..
Great Video, Can you give me a ballpark on what the final cost was to upgrade your panel ?
Hi, Kevin. Sure - right here ua-cam.com/video/rrN0frJGVY4/v-deo.html
So I’m looking into picking up an older debonair/f33 bo with out dated avionics to do almost exactly what you did to your piper. The only thing I plan to do differently is a 750xi instead of 650 and edm 900 instead of the 830 so I can delete all the legacy engine gauges as well as the legacy vacuum/DG system.
You will definitely enjoy that setup!
I came for the flying video, but was distracted by the Tobias Killer B in the background.
Good eye, Chris
Mike, when your engine is ready for overhaul/replacement would you consider installing the Continental Jet A/Diesel under an STC instead?
Rick, I recently did overhaul the engine. It made it close to TBO but it was time. I'm a big fan of Jet A/Diesel (lower operating costs) but wasn't aware of on STC for such on an Archer. Is there one?
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree Even if there is, the Archer DX is horrible. The loss of useful load is not worth it.
Thank you for sharing your setup! I noticed you removed all your Nav indicators and rely only on your G5 HSI. I'm thinking of doing the same but I wonder how that will affect the aircraft as a instrument trainer and ultimately checkrides?
You're welcome, Leonard. I removed one of the Nav indicators to make room for the EDM 830, and the other I removed as it provided credit for the overall job. I thought about that one for a while, but it's no different this way from a 'glass' cockpit, where there is usually only 1 HSI for Nav purposes. Granted, two sources of Nav data, usually, but only one indicator.
Mike are you close to NAS O or NOB?
Would you be so kind as to provide a cost summary for this upgrade? I would like to use it as a template for an older AC I am considering buying.
ua-cam.com/video/rrN0frJGVY4/v-deo.html
Hi Mike, awesome video! I know, cost are something boone really wants to talk about, but I would really appreciate if you could give me an indication in which direction the whole thing goes including the installation. I am thinking about buying a piper and I am trying to understand which price I could accept even when the avionics is outdated and needs up-to-date replacement. Thanks and BR
Thanks! After getting permission from the shop to talk details, I'm doing a follow up where I'll detail all those costs.
Hey Mike great video! So how much for an installation of the G1000 in a plane that has the basic six pack? Like, for an older plane like a 1980 Piper Archer or Cessna 182?
Hi Robert. Thanks! A g1000 is not an aftermarket thing you can add; it comes with a plane at the beginning. You can do a garmin g500/600 TXI (or non) which is essentially the same, but is more configurable. That can get quite pricey, but the functionality is hard to beat.
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree Hi Mike thanks for the quick reply! Okay that makes sense. So how much for the g500/600 TXI new install then? Ballpark...
@@robert4039 For exact numbers you'd need to speak with an avionics shop like Freedom Aviation that I mentioned in this video, but my recollection is to go from a six-pack to new G500/600 install you're looking at $45-65k, roughly. Easily more.
Which avionics shop did the install?
Freedom Aviation @ KLYH in Lynchburg, VA. Jason Moorefield is the man to talk to. 434-237-8434
So about how much was the upgrade you never said that in the video
The follow up vid in the remarks of this video detail all the costs. Thanks for watching!
Total cost for the upgrade? Love what you did.
I'm working on a follow up that provides all that info.
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree did this ever happen? Haha I am thinking about getting a something similar and trying to strategize how to go about this. 😁 I’ll go through your videos also to look for said video. This was SUPER informative thank you!
@@ChristianReyess Yes, I created the follow up and posted the cost-breakdown video above in the video info. Hope it helps!
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree found it and watched it! You’re awesome. Thank you
I think I need a career change LOL
I asked on Reddit, figured I'd ask here too.. How is 2 G5s and a GFC 500 a TAA?
Hi, Josh. The G5s and the GFC500 don't make it a TAA by themselves. Those, combined with the GTN650, make it one as per 61.129. The top G5 is your PFD, the 650 is your MFD, and the GFC500 is the 2-axis AP. Hope that helps.
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree I don't think that's correct. The G5s aren't your "primary" display for all of the parameters listed, hence why the G5 requires keeping some of your legacy gauges.
@@joshcox8785 I agree that it's open to interpretation, but a DPE deemed it appropriate via 61.129 to be a TAA. Whether the G5 is actually the 'only' or 'primary' source of that info doesn't seem to be a sticking point; it has it all in one, easily useable place. www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/active-pilots/safety-and-technique/operations/technically-advanced-airplanes#:~:text=The%20term%20technically%20advanced%20airplane,aviation%20lexicon%20for%20several%20years.&text=According%20to%20FAR%2061.1%2C%20a,also%20created%2061.129(j)%3A
@@MikeWebb-FlyingFinanciallyFree Good deal, wish that was the case more often. All of the dual G5 +GTN+GFC airplanes I've flown were definitely deemed to be NOT TAAs
I suppose it depends who you ask. When a respected and busy DPE in my area who has conducted several checkrides in this plane said it qualified as a TAA I was pleased.
I have to add something... If it was up to me, I would upgrade my entire panel. Audio panel, autopilot, and a couple of G5's to get rid of the vacuum system, a GTN 750Xi and 650 Xi. Why not? I'm old. I don't want to leave my money to my relatives. We have no kids. But, I see you are guitarist, like me. But, you must be single, or have an understanding wife.... My wife doesn't like it when I buy guitars, or spend money on the airplane. So, I have a choice. Stay married, or buy more guitars and avionics? Well, "I'm gonna miss her", Just kidding.....
I wonder if @elonmusk has ever seen this videos to let our government know we should be improving the way travel happens as all of these panels could be upgraded more with technology, but where is it Nasa?
I live near KHEF. Do you have your plane for rent at AvEd?
Hi, John. No, American Aviation.
Cue the scope creep!
Yup
How much did it cost?
In the above video description there’s a link to a follow-up vid that details costs.
Sounds like a $30,000 or more upgrade. Lol
It was, and more. Check out the follow-up above.
If you want to get value for your money, it comes the day someone looks at your panel and notes how dated it is. Then you know you got your money's worth.
Very true, Scott. If you got longevity out of a panel that’s something in itself.
Does everyone still not recognize the danger of flying with no instruments, other then those COMPUTER SCREENS?????
I've been working with computers and other "High end" electronics systems for over 40 years. And yes, their great WHEN THEY KEEP WORKING!
But if you knew the ten thousand and one reasons that will make then just up and quit? You would never bet your life on them again. Sure, I enjoy using our modern, electronic wonders. But only for secondary support. They will never be my primary source of flight data. That's just a far to dangerous situation that I'm not willing to risk my neck on.
Hi, Robin. Your sentiments are certainly valid, but I’m not sure you noticed this panel still has analog “six pack” gauges that could be relied upon should both G5s fail (extremely unlikely). In 2021, any true glass cockpit will have 2,3, or even more sources as backups should the primary fail. In my opinion, that’s much safer than relying on aging vacuum systems and gyro instruments with costly and regular repairs needed.