Gowron knew precisely what he was doing. He didn't have to involve Worf at all, and he knew Worf would turn him down. This gave him exactly the excuse he needed to dismantle the House of Mogh, who were popular on Qo'nos and one of his biggest political rivals
@@perfectionbox Worf regained his honor, joined the House of Martok, and gave the Chancellorship to General Martok after killing Gowron in honorable combat.
I love it how Worf effortlessly out Klingons Gowron with his last line in that scene. "You will have nothing!" "Except my honor." "Fuck! I forgot Klingons cared about that shit!"
I loved his character, but was so disappointed when they had him go so political that he jeopardized the war, and had to be killed in honorable combat. I liked him more then Worf, to be honest. I would have liked it if they made him appear like he felt betrayed by Worf when he stayed with Starfleet. I know they needed Worf in the show, but his Klingon uniform fit him much better, and it definitely showed while he was Martok's first officer. They could have made Gawron more watchful, and a bit more paranoid after that until Worf proved his loyalty to the empire, and Gawron. Would have made for more interesting stories then Ezri's arc.
Gowron: Your family will be removed from the high council, your land seized, and your name stripped of its titles. You will have nothing. Worf: Wait... I have land? How do I have land? I have never lived on the homeworld. Is it nice land?
Worf is the true essence of the Klingon heart. Unfortunately his people are not ones who truly live up to the legendary status of Klingon honor. A lesson he learns through his position on DS9 till the end of the series.
Yeah, but where is the honor in ruining the lives of his brother and all his family members? Worf's "honor" has always been rather narcissistic. He was a terrible father to Alexander and a terrible brother to Kurn, but at least his "honor" was intact. I love Worf, but the first thing he should have done after joining the House of Martok was to at least attempt to recover Kurn's memories. I know they said it was irreversible, but greater miracles have happened on Star Trek.
@@Zero8880 I do agree with you on these things. Worf has made some very poor choices either due to the circumstances or bad judgment. But he's always struggled with trying to balance his life and culture. He has made a least a genuine attempt to mend things with his son. As far as his Brother, in the novels that take place after DS9 ended, Kurn does regain his memories and later confronts Worf about it. The End results are Kurn tells worf that he's much happier being Rodek than being Kurn. He said it was far too difficult being his brother and he warned him if he ever crossed him again in a dishonorable way, he would kill him. All Worf could say was I understand. Truly a bittersweet end to the house of Mogh.
@@humbleopinion43samurai19 Wow, that's interesting to know about the outcome of Kurn, whether it's canon or not. I'm not sure how I feel about that plotline. Kurn, along with Martok, were to me the prototype pure Klingons, and the best that they had to offer. Both great warriors with a sense of honor. I feel the addition of Kurn to the House of Martok, would have been a great boon for them. Much better than Alexander and Ezri lol. It's funny, if you think about it, Tony Todd played 2 different characters on season 4 of Ds9. Both characters attempted suicide (one succeeding), both wanted to see their father's face after waking, and both were given a chance at life by the end of the episode.
z @Zero 8880 you can blame these poor choices of worf on bad writing. Worf wasnt supposed to be part of ds9, he was originally brought in as regular to improve ratings, so writers have to come up with storylibes for him, hence the poorly written episodes like the one where worf sabotage odo sting operation with quark, or the one where he was drilling two starfleet officers to exhaution and frustration, obrien has to explain it to him that federation work environment is different than klingon, i mean wtf, it would have make sense if it was another klingon officer freshly transfered from bird of prey, but worf a senior starfleet officer would have known about starfleet working environment. And dont get me started on that kurn mess, then 1 season later klingons are allies again.
"I have sworn an oath!" _"To the Federation!"_ Of course. 🤷 The Federation rescued him when Khitomer was massacred. Where were the Klingons? They were dead. Every blessed one of them was dead or dying and there were no Klingon ships anywhere in the vicinity. And let's not forget that Worf went on to kill Duras, and so paved the way for Gowron to become Chancellor of the Empire (an act which gave Gowron his job) and later, he and his brother, Kurn, played instrumental roles in saving Gowron's ass in the Klingon Civil War. Worf's decision to swear an oath to the Federation and join Starfleet is an act to which Gowron owes his job and his life, and he speaks of it with disdain.
@Jerry Cregan Stark Mathurin What do you mean "cost?" A cost to whom? What do you mean "paid?" Paid by whom? What did _Gowron_ lose in aid to _Worf?_ In the Klingon Civil War, Gowron presided over a ceremony at which Worf's family honor was restored. Gowron was able to do that because he was still _alive._ He was able to do that because Worf and Kurn had _saved_ his life in _combat._ This episode, though is called _The Way of the Warrior._ In it, Worf reveals (as he has learned through the news channels he follows) a body politic he is aware of, gaining traction within the Klingon Empire, making the case that the Empire has been at peace too long, and so this Klingon armada is there on their behalf to make an enemy of _peace,_ not the _Dominion_ as they had originally said. This armada was there to fight just for the sake of fighting and Gowron was there to recruit Worf into _that_ cause. Would _you_ be willing to fight just to fight?
@@lazyperfectionist1 True while the Changeling posing as General Martok manipulated The Klingon Empire to destabilize the Alpha Quadrant for The Dominion to enforce their Order upon the solids.
@Cregan Stark Spoken like a Klingon. However, we learn later that there exist wise Klingons, like Martok. So, fighting a wrong cause is without honor and that is it.
"I assure you, HA! I am not one of them! Ha ha!' **head bounces around like a bobblehead** Gowron was such an awesome character! What Robert O'Reilly did with him - pure genius.
Gowron was a great character, especially in DS9. The actor and writers were able to portray a proud klingon warrior and sleezy politician in the same character.
And he was a true Klingon. On several occasions he was more than willing to have a 1 on 1 fight to the death to any challenger. Most politicians don't do their own dirty work.
This scene really does a good job of showing how Worf learned the human concepts of warrior honor which to do not line up completely with the Klingon ideal of warrior honor. Poor guy really is between worlds and peoples, makes for a rather lonely character but also a compelling one.
Worf is actually the idealistic version of Klingon honor. What he brings to the table from his human upbringing and time in starfleet is more about diplomacy and flexibility. But from all of the good examples of Klingon honor, Word upholds it in almost every circumstance. Take the Keyhless episode for example. Or when he taught the romulan raised Klingons.
This scene gives me the chills. This is how you respectfully stand your grown FIRM. You don’t let your debts to someone drag you into a place you know isn’t right.
This was Gowron’s lowest moments and the beginning of his decline as a leader, let alone an honorable one. Worf is the most honorable Klingon, not because he knows when to fight, but because he knows when not to. He knows more than anyone that there is far more to being Klingon than the glory of battle. And besides, when Worf does fight, he never stops trying to stand back up again.
The Klingon way is to fight first and ask questions later. You use human prejudices to judge Klingons. The Klingon empire isn’t second to the federation. They’re their own thing, and they don’t give two shits about humans fighting when it’s right or wrong. This is the lie of western civ. Western civ always came up with excuses to conquer, but here we think Picard and his diplomacy is the sole reason why western civ ascended. What a crock.
@@LKaramazov except the klingons were factually wrong about cardassia being controlled by changlings and literally attacked the federation significantly weakening the entire quadrant. Pcard could only have been a product of western civilization, because no other culture had ever made a character like him. Western civilizations ended African slavery, introduced republican ideals to contries where birth counted for more then merit, and ended countless barbaric traditions, but sure all those foreigners immigrating to the west are stupid and should appreciate their culture more.
@@jmack8767 He embodied his people’s legends in his initial life effort to learn more about them. Not to mention legends are often based off of facts. There’s a theory in the fandom suggesting Worf is actually Kahless returned.
gowron should realise that he only became chancellor since worf and his brother gave him ships to beat the Duras. it's not as if he gave worf back his family name due to the kindness of his heart.
coalikesdesi also Kurn wanted to take out Gowron if the Duras family didn't do it. It was because Worf reminded Kurn that he was the elder brother, and that he was the head of the family that he supported Gowron.
Worf should have have gone with Gowron on the invasion of Cardassia. He showed once again that his heart was not Klingon. He was nothing more than a Federation puppet.
-There`s Gowron and he wants to speak with Worf -Damn, not that crazy dude again, tell him I`m fishing on Risa! (a few moments later) - Worf. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORF!
You have to feel for Worf's brother, Kern. First, he grows up an orphan having to hide his identity. Then, he finally finds his long lost brother and convinces him to clear the family name... Now, Worf screws it all up, Kern is removed from the High Council and loses everything. Back to the streets.
It may seem like Worf screwed it all up but, what I think we have here is Gowron securing his position politically. He knows Worf is a potential problem because Gowron does not have his loyalty, he has Kern's, but Worf is the head of the House of Mogh. Gowron suspects Worf would side with the Federation than with him so he forces Worf to chose so he can remove those who are not loyal on the high council and fill the position with someone who is. We see Gowron's political posturing come to a head in season 7 in how he deals with Martok. Gowron is very cunning, he knows how to get what he wants and how to deal with those who are against him. Gowron butters up Worf at the beginning to try and seem amicable and try assure Worf's loyalty, but when that fails he immediately turns to blackmail, which also fails. Gowron may be a strong and cunning leader, but he is not a truly honorable Klingon.
"It is true. I owe you a great deal." Bullshit. He gave you back your family name because you and your brother saved his ass in combat. It was not something he did out of the generosity of his own heart. It was something he did because he was still _alive_ because of you. To do otherwise would have been _dishonorable._
Worf was just being polite I guess, since Worf saw it as their "duty" to support Gowron back in Redemption so I'm sure Worf felt Gowron was "gracious" even when we ourselves can see Gowron wasn't gracious.
To be fair he IS THE CHANCELLOR. For him to show any favour to worf over the others that supported him....that's pretty huge. For him to grant Worf so many chances as well and to allow worf to speak his mind freely and all that....that commands great influence. People are underplaying gowron's position. If ur best friend becomes king....and u visit him years later....he's not going to just throw his arms around u and give u whatever u want...he has to act like a king cause he's got all these subjects he has to rule over that will otherwise butcher him if he shows too much favoritism. And giving him a seat on the council was a big extra. From gowron's perspective the debt was paid. I mean Worf's house....mainly kurn's work....brought all those ships that saved his ass in the civil war, but those ships didn't serve Worf they were other houses who were merely convinced by Kurn. Worf's family doesn't command them though. Gowron acted appropriately imo given his position.
Flekk Bone Gnawer You are confusing Klingon Tradition with Klingon Warrior tradition. In this instance, it makes sense however there are other castes within the Empire! Gorkon & Azetbur, the leaders of the Klingon Empire in the Undiscovered Country were not warriors! Neither was G'dath the high school teacher who also created the device which could travel over 200 light years in a second!
Maybe it's just me, but every time I see Gowron, I think he's as mad as a box of frogs! Even by Klingon standards, the guy's not playing with a full deck.
LMAO definitely not only you thinking that. But at the same time, that same borderline insanity brooding just beneath surface is what makes him such a memorable character.
From when this episode first aired on TV to now, I'm still torn up on whether or not Worf did the right thing here. Yes, I know that in the long run Worf did the right thing but I can't help but wonder if things would have turned out differently if Worf went with Gowron to Cardasia. Back in TNG, Worf chose to accept exile from the empire in order to protect it because the Duras family had too much power and influence and taking out Duras at that time would've caused civil war that could've crippled the Empire making it an easy target for the Romulans or anyone else that would act upon that opportunity. This time, Worf chooses to refuse Gowron's request and turn his back on the Empire. At that moment, we know that there was no way at all that Worf would have known he would have had another chance to save the Empire so he was effectively telling Gowron and the Empire to "go screw yourselves, my honor is more important". It's a far cry from someone who would choose exile to save the Empire. At the time, the Enterprise D had been destroyed and Worf was already considering leaving Star Fleet. He really had the golden opportunity there to go back to the Empire. Since he felt so strongly about the invasion of Cardasia, he could have instead gone with Gowron on the initial invasion, earned the respect of more of his fellow Klingons, and then worked within the Empire to find out what was really going on and deal with it internally (or covertly get help from the Federation). He's a tactical officer. He would've known (or at least figured) that the Cardasians would've lost some territory regardless of him being there or not. He didn't always have to be the exile that saves the Empire from the shadows. I think he still would've ended up killing Gowron for the same reasons as he did in the original story and made someone else (Martok if he still came back from the Dominion prison camp or some other honorable Klingon) chancellor, but he'd still have his brother and family name in the clear. After the Dominion War, instead of being an ambassador, he could've been given the title of Dahar Master, or ended up as a well respected teacher training future generations of Klingons.
It was because of the klingons and maquis that the cardassians accepted the treaty between Dukat and the Dominion. Dukat was basically no one after his half bajoran daughter was discovered. On another note what the female changeling told Garrak did become true. She did destory Cardassia Empire.
Gowron as stated multiple times is more of a politician than a warrior, very unusual for the Klingons. In classic politician fashion he praises and supports the ones useful to him and cuts them off as soon as they stop beeing useful. Working with a Gowron is very dangerous, as shown repeated times Gowron is very quick to change his opinion. So what if a week later after a lost battle Gowron decides Worf did not answer quick enough and did not show enthusiasm fit of such a great offer. He would outcast Worf again and he sacrificed his honor for nothing. I think Worf did the right thing. Nothing good would have come out of this.
Wooooorf why did you stop speaking and stand in the same spot for 2 minutes ? Is it because of that floating cloaked camera aimed at you? We do not discuss it with outsiders
This is a great example of external honor vs internal honor. Honor, ultimately, means acting as people you respect would expect or require you to act. Gowron appeals to external honor (the opinions of the Federation and other Klingons) but he doesn't realize that Worf only obeys internal honor: Worf respects himself, so he won't lower himself to break his word, no matter who he gave it to. It shows how broken Klingon society is and obsessed with external honor, which is really just popularity: they'll break their word and honor in a heartbeat if they think it'll make them look better.
Klingons could be honorable though To be fair the whole disillusion Worf had was with the traitors to the Romulans (Duras namely. And the High Council) not his own in general
There was an episode of "Voyager" where Klingons tried to talk with Janeway, and they weren't dishonorable. Maybe it's me as admittedly I didn't really see the full episode but that was my impression
Although Gowron was a flawed man, he was a great klingon.... perhaps the most klingon character. And like most klingons, pride was his weakness. It was what led to his downfall.
Gowron may be my favorite secondary Klingon (only beating the DS9 Chef due to screen time). His energy brings so much joy to the Alpha Quadrant, even when he's trying to conquer it. Every time I hear that "WoooOOORF!", my brain instinctively thinks he's about to rip Worf's head off; then I'm laughing right along with the lunatic as he happily greets the man instead. X'D
What Gowron doesn't understand is that Worf has always been a great warrior⚔; but not if it means destroying a link🔗 that has brought unity with Klingons & the Federation. In fact, there's an old saying: "Those who desire peace, must accept war. But those who embrace war, must preserve peace"- The Balance⚖.
If Worf had more diplomatic skills, he could have just said that he has been posted for re-assignment somewhere else in Starfleet and that his brother Kurn will be in his place alongside Gowron instead (even though both Sons of Mogh are against the invasion). Thus they will both appear to be patriotic and avoid Gowron's wrath. In time, when the Klingons starts losing the war, Kurn can just killed Gowron for incompetence (rumours was that the next Chancellor was most likely from the House of Mogh as they had the resources and support).... then Kurn can just negotiate for peace or something.
I think Worf could have just delegated Kurn to be in his place without even making any excuses, being the elder brother. However, the invasion was imminent and there was presumably no time left to transport Kurn from the homeworld, which we don't know how far it really is but at least a few days at best and the invasion fleet wasn't going to wait around just for him.
I think Worf was smart enough to think about it, just not immediately, I`m sure most of us need some time to come up with a right answer, so does Worf.
This scene really showed the lack of honor Gowron had, basically blackmailing a warrior who had done so much for him. And we saw how it caught up with him in Season 7 with his eventual dishonorable act against Martok.
Gowron was always a scumbag. It just took him gaining power and then becoming afraid of losing that power to a truly honourable man like Martok, for everyone to see it.
Worf and Spock have much to talk about they are both the very epitome of Klingon and Vulcan values but always find that their people will turn on them when they stick to it
Poor Robert O'Reilly. I hope that the producers picked up his expenses for eye drops for his performances. His eyes must have hurt like crap after that.
Appearently the Chancellor Gowron wants Worf to pick him over the Federation. Worf used his brains and decided to stay with the Federation since the USS Enterprise belongs to the Federation.
I wish they would have gone a different way they could've had warf join him as an undercover than have him help expose the changing and not be dishonored agian
I love Gowron. Partly because he's completely nuts and partly because he sometimes sounds just like Krusty the Clown.
Not to mention those eyes, those eyes!!
@@johntrevy1 *[STARES IN KLINGON]*
@@Renorick1 No, stop. Please, I will do whatever you ask!!!
I can't unhear crusty now MF lol
Worf.... Wooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrf!
"And even though you may have made some enemies, I can assure you, I am not one of them! At least, not for another sixty seconds or so."
From Friends to Enemies. Gowron displays the qualities of a Narcissistic personality!
Narcissism is a classic hallmark of most world leaders these days, with Trump being a prime example.
He is a politician willing to sacrifice the entire empire to hold his power.
@@sethmacadam3253 Well, he's Klingon so applying human standards is a little wonky... but yeah were he human, a spot on analysis
LOL!!
"Glory awaits you on Cardassia!"
"But a steady acting gig awaits me here..."
Exactly he should jave recurring role or guest role in ds9 then promoted to regular only when he organically fits into ds9
Praise to you
“You will have nothing!!!” - Gowran
“Except my HONOR” - Worf
Gets me every time in the feels
Word is Bond...
Worf "and my brother.. oh crap! My brother!"
Too late XD
Often it seems Worf is the only one that interprets "Honor" as "Integrity", most Klingons seem to interpret it as "Reputation".
That look Gowron gave him, I mean come on, the clone of Kahless himself regarded Worf as a honorable man.
Rule of Acquisition 109: _“Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.”_
Well that escalated quickly. From being his best buddy to being in outcast of the empire again in t-minus 2 minutes.
Just like working for a psychopath in real life
Gowron knew precisely what he was doing. He didn't have to involve Worf at all, and he knew Worf would turn him down. This gave him exactly the excuse he needed to dismantle the House of Mogh, who were popular on Qo'nos and one of his biggest political rivals
One of the saddest incidents too, atleast for Worf.
@@LonesomeTraveller Yeah. Worf totally won the "recipient of the rawest deal" contest on TNG.
@@perfectionbox Worf regained his honor, joined the House of Martok, and gave the Chancellorship to General Martok after killing Gowron in honorable combat.
I love it how Worf effortlessly out Klingons Gowron with his last line in that scene.
"You will have nothing!"
"Except my honor."
"Fuck! I forgot Klingons cared about that shit!"
To this day I still crack up every time ole Crazy Eyes goes "Worf...WOOOOORRRRFFF!!!!"
0:30
Yeah, the actor playing Galron has a very distinctive "appearance" with those eyes.
Anyone else here greet a friend they haven't seen for years like this? 😁
I loved his character, but was so disappointed when they had him go so political that he jeopardized the war, and had to be killed in honorable combat. I liked him more then Worf, to be honest. I would have liked it if they made him appear like he felt betrayed by Worf when he stayed with Starfleet. I know they needed Worf in the show, but his Klingon uniform fit him much better, and it definitely showed while he was Martok's first officer. They could have made Gawron more watchful, and a bit more paranoid after that until Worf proved his loyalty to the empire, and Gawron. Would have made for more interesting stories then Ezri's arc.
At the begining when he uttered worf it sounded like he was barking by saying woof 😂 that's a good boy Gowron here is your Gagh!
Gowron: Your family will be removed from the high council, your land seized, and your name stripped of its titles. You will have nothing.
Worf: Wait... I have land? How do I have land? I have never lived on the homeworld. Is it nice land?
Good one!
True. We never even see what Qo'noS looks like except for a overused cityscape that is the same as Cardassia I think.
"Is it nice land?" no, ofcourse not. it is on the homeworld.
"Can I grow Prunes there?"
Also who is this "family" except his brother Kurn?
Worf is the true essence of the Klingon heart. Unfortunately his people are not ones who truly live up to the legendary status of Klingon honor. A lesson he learns through his position on DS9 till the end of the series.
Yeah, but where is the honor in ruining the lives of his brother and all his family members? Worf's "honor" has always been rather narcissistic. He was a terrible father to Alexander and a terrible brother to Kurn, but at least his "honor" was intact. I love Worf, but the first thing he should have done after joining the House of Martok was to at least attempt to recover Kurn's memories. I know they said it was irreversible, but greater miracles have happened on Star Trek.
@@Zero8880 I do agree with you on these things. Worf has made some very poor choices either due to the circumstances or bad judgment. But he's always struggled with trying to balance his life and culture. He has made a least a genuine attempt to mend things with his son. As far as his Brother, in the novels that take place after DS9 ended, Kurn does regain his memories and later confronts Worf about it. The End results are Kurn tells worf that he's much happier being Rodek than being Kurn. He said it was far too difficult being his brother and he warned him if he ever crossed him again in a dishonorable way, he would kill him. All Worf could say was I understand. Truly a bittersweet end to the house of Mogh.
@@humbleopinion43samurai19 Wow, that's interesting to know about the outcome of Kurn, whether it's canon or not. I'm not sure how I feel about that plotline. Kurn, along with Martok, were to me the prototype pure Klingons, and the best that they had to offer. Both great warriors with a sense of honor. I feel the addition of Kurn to the House of Martok, would have been a great boon for them. Much better than Alexander and Ezri lol. It's funny, if you think about it, Tony Todd played 2 different characters on season 4 of Ds9. Both characters attempted suicide (one succeeding), both wanted to see their father's face after waking, and both were given a chance at life by the end of the episode.
@@Zero8880 LOL. Very True. I could imagine Martok & Kurn definitely going targ hunting together.
z
@Zero 8880 you can blame these poor choices of worf on bad writing. Worf wasnt supposed to be part of ds9, he was originally brought in as regular to improve ratings, so writers have to come up with storylibes for him, hence the poorly written episodes like the one where worf sabotage odo sting operation with quark, or the one where he was drilling two starfleet officers to exhaution and frustration, obrien has to explain it to him that federation work environment is different than klingon, i mean wtf, it would have make sense if it was another klingon officer freshly transfered from bird of prey, but worf a senior starfleet officer would have known about starfleet working environment. And dont get me started on that kurn mess, then 1 season later klingons are allies again.
"I have sworn an oath!"
_"To the Federation!"_
Of course. 🤷 The Federation rescued him when Khitomer was massacred. Where were the Klingons? They were dead. Every blessed one of them was dead or dying and there were no Klingon ships anywhere in the vicinity.
And let's not forget that Worf went on to kill Duras, and so paved the way for Gowron to become Chancellor of the Empire (an act which gave Gowron his job) and later, he and his brother, Kurn, played instrumental roles in saving Gowron's ass in the Klingon Civil War. Worf's decision to swear an oath to the Federation and join Starfleet is an act to which Gowron owes his job and his life, and he speaks of it with disdain.
Politicians.
Fauler Perfektionist the way he spits out the word Federation 😀😀
@Jerry Cregan Stark Mathurin What do you mean "cost?" A cost to whom? What do you mean "paid?" Paid by whom? What did _Gowron_ lose in aid to _Worf?_ In the Klingon Civil War, Gowron presided over a ceremony at which Worf's family honor was restored. Gowron was able to do that because he was still _alive._ He was able to do that because Worf and Kurn had _saved_ his life in _combat._
This episode, though is called _The Way of the Warrior._ In it, Worf reveals (as he has learned through the news channels he follows) a body politic he is aware of, gaining traction within the Klingon Empire, making the case that the Empire has been at peace too long, and so this Klingon armada is there on their behalf to make an enemy of _peace,_ not the _Dominion_ as they had originally said. This armada was there to fight just for the sake of fighting and Gowron was there to recruit Worf into _that_ cause. Would _you_ be willing to fight just to fight?
@@lazyperfectionist1 True while the Changeling posing as General Martok manipulated The Klingon Empire to destabilize the Alpha Quadrant for The Dominion to enforce their Order upon the solids.
@Cregan Stark Spoken like a Klingon. However, we learn later that there exist wise Klingons, like Martok. So, fighting a wrong cause is without honor and that is it.
"I assure you, HA! I am not one of them! Ha ha!' **head bounces around like a bobblehead**
Gowron was such an awesome character! What Robert O'Reilly did with him - pure genius.
Gowron was a great character, especially in DS9. The actor and writers were able to portray a proud klingon warrior and sleezy politician in the same character.
And he was a true Klingon. On several occasions he was more than willing to have a 1 on 1 fight to the death to any challenger. Most politicians don't do their own dirty work.
@@joshythehand2960 Yeah, exactly.
@@joshythehand2960 and yet he was still a politician
@@joshythehand2960 Gowron is a narcissist and a hypocrite. He has the pride to do the tasks himself
@@seriascannain6675 You will not have this day.
Martok > Gowron
Gowron: You are my friend Worf.
Worf: Ehhh...
Martok: You are my brother Worf!
Worf: Hell yeah!
Truth.
Too bad they didn't bring back the Kahless clone. Can you imagine all three of them together?
Gowron > Martok. He doesn't make boring, melodramatic speeches.
@@NerdilyDone He also has those EYES. Don't mess with anyone who has the crazy eyes. (And certainly don't mess with their Janet!)
Gowron talking about debts like Worf didn't single handedly gift him the chancellor's chair at the cost of his own mate
Yeah seriously. He killed Duras which was the only thing standing in his way to the chancellor's chair
I love how Gowron says "Glory" it sounds like something physically tangible.
Win something you fought hard for and you can taste the victory like honey.
It seems to be a Klingon trait
Gowron is so over acted, yet it is perfection.
This scene really does a good job of showing how Worf learned the human concepts of warrior honor which to do not line up completely with the Klingon ideal of warrior honor. Poor guy really is between worlds and peoples, makes for a rather lonely character but also a compelling one.
No! Not at all.
Worf is actually the idealistic version of Klingon honor. What he brings to the table from his human upbringing and time in starfleet is more about diplomacy and flexibility. But from all of the good examples of Klingon honor, Word upholds it in almost every circumstance. Take the Keyhless episode for example. Or when he taught the romulan raised Klingons.
"You will have nothing!"
"Except my honour"
Worf stands firm, even in the face of such extortion.
They could not have chosen a better actor to play Gowron. He made him so unique and memorable!
This scene gives me the chills. This is how you respectfully stand your grown FIRM. You don’t let your debts to someone drag you into a place you know isn’t right.
This was Gowron’s lowest moments and the beginning of his decline as a leader, let alone an honorable one. Worf is the most honorable Klingon, not because he knows when to fight, but because he knows when not to. He knows more than anyone that there is far more to being Klingon than the glory of battle. And besides, when Worf does fight, he never stops trying to stand back up again.
The Klingon way is to fight first and ask questions later. You use human prejudices to judge Klingons. The Klingon empire isn’t second to the federation. They’re their own thing, and they don’t give two shits about humans fighting when it’s right or wrong. This is the lie of western civ. Western civ always came up with excuses to conquer, but here we think Picard and his diplomacy is the sole reason why western civ ascended. What a crock.
@@LKaramazov except the klingons were factually wrong about cardassia being controlled by changlings and literally attacked the federation significantly weakening the entire quadrant.
Pcard could only have been a product of western civilization, because no other culture had ever made a character like him.
Western civilizations ended African slavery, introduced republican ideals to contries where birth counted for more then merit, and ended countless barbaric traditions, but sure all those foreigners immigrating to the west are stupid and should appreciate their culture more.
@@jmack8767 He embodied his people’s legends in his initial life effort to learn more about them. Not to mention legends are often based off of facts. There’s a theory in the fandom suggesting Worf is actually Kahless returned.
Gowron; you never know whether he will kill you, embrace you, or both.
gowron should realise that he only became chancellor since worf and his brother gave him ships to beat the Duras. it's not as if he gave worf back his family name due to the kindness of his heart.
coalikesdesi also Kurn wanted to take out Gowron if the Duras family didn't do it. It was because Worf reminded Kurn that he was the elder brother, and that he was the head of the family that he supported Gowron.
He also became Chancellor because Worf killed Duras & the Federation exposed the Romulan connection to the Duras Family
Worf should have have gone with Gowron on the invasion of Cardassia. He showed once again that his heart was not Klingon. He was nothing more than a Federation puppet.
@@Romulan2469 Not true.
@@Romulan2469 Of course a Romulan would say that.
Gowron didn’t have to strip down The House of Mogh like that. Poor Kurn.
It warms my heart to see a smile on Gowron’s face :-)
Once you see his talk with Gowron in TNG, you start to further appreciate how hard Worf's refusal to join Gowron on Cardassia *truely* was...
"Worf? ...WOOOOORRRFFFF" XD Regardless of how all this ended I want someone to greet me that way someday 😂
1IbramGaunt?...1IbramGaaaaaaaaaaaauuuunt!!!!!!!!!! *hugs*
@@WorldPeace21 not as easy as WOOOOOOOOOOOOOORF though lol
Meanwhile, on Babylon 5:
"AHHHHHHHHHHH, MEESTER MORDEN!"
-There`s Gowron and he wants to speak with Worf
-Damn, not that crazy dude again, tell him I`m fishing on Risa!
(a few moments later) - Worf. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORF!
You have to feel for Worf's brother, Kern. First, he grows up an orphan having to hide his identity. Then, he finally finds his long lost brother and convinces him to clear the family name... Now, Worf screws it all up, Kern is removed from the High Council and loses everything. Back to the streets.
It may seem like Worf screwed it all up but, what I think we have here is Gowron securing his position politically. He knows Worf is a potential problem because Gowron does not have his loyalty, he has Kern's, but Worf is the head of the House of Mogh. Gowron suspects Worf would side with the Federation than with him so he forces Worf to chose so he can remove those who are not loyal on the high council and fill the position with someone who is.
We see Gowron's political posturing come to a head in season 7 in how he deals with Martok. Gowron is very cunning, he knows how to get what he wants and how to deal with those who are against him. Gowron butters up Worf at the beginning to try and seem amicable and try assure Worf's loyalty, but when that fails he immediately turns to blackmail, which also fails. Gowron may be a strong and cunning leader, but he is not a truly honorable Klingon.
1:50 A narrowing of the eyes from Gowron. Incredible.
"It is true. I owe you a great deal."
Bullshit. He gave you back your family name because you and your brother saved his ass in combat. It was not something he did out of the generosity of his own heart. It was something he did because he was still _alive_ because of you. To do otherwise would have been _dishonorable._
Worf was just being polite I guess, since Worf saw it as their "duty" to support Gowron back in Redemption so I'm sure Worf felt Gowron was "gracious" even when we ourselves can see Gowron wasn't gracious.
Don't put human Values on Klingons!!!😋
To be fair he IS THE CHANCELLOR. For him to show any favour to worf over the others that supported him....that's pretty huge. For him to grant Worf so many chances as well and to allow worf to speak his mind freely and all that....that commands great influence. People are underplaying gowron's position. If ur best friend becomes king....and u visit him years later....he's not going to just throw his arms around u and give u whatever u want...he has to act like a king cause he's got all these subjects he has to rule over that will otherwise butcher him if he shows too much favoritism. And giving him a seat on the council was a big extra. From gowron's perspective the debt was paid. I mean Worf's house....mainly kurn's work....brought all those ships that saved his ass in the civil war, but those ships didn't serve Worf they were other houses who were merely convinced by Kurn. Worf's family doesn't command them though. Gowron acted appropriately imo given his position.
Flekk Bone Gnawer You are confusing Klingon Tradition with Klingon Warrior tradition. In this instance, it makes sense however there are other castes within the Empire! Gorkon & Azetbur, the leaders of the Klingon Empire in the Undiscovered Country were not warriors! Neither was G'dath the high school teacher who also created the device which could travel over 200 light years in a second!
Gowron was an amazing character. The writers were able to properly write a klingon warrior and sleezy politician into the same character.
Geez, Gowron has enough eyeball credit he can lease some to Martok.
They had to write one of Martok's eyes out of the series because Gowron used up the eyeball budget.
@@MichaelRainey lolz.
Maybe it's just me, but every time I see Gowron, I think he's as mad as a box of frogs! Even by Klingon standards, the guy's not playing with a full deck.
LMAO definitely not only you thinking that. But at the same time, that same borderline insanity brooding just beneath surface is what makes him such a memorable character.
From when this episode first aired on TV to now, I'm still torn up on whether or not Worf did the right thing here. Yes, I know that in the long run Worf did the right thing but I can't help but wonder if things would have turned out differently if Worf went with Gowron to Cardasia. Back in TNG, Worf chose to accept exile from the empire in order to protect it because the Duras family had too much power and influence and taking out Duras at that time would've caused civil war that could've crippled the Empire making it an easy target for the Romulans or anyone else that would act upon that opportunity.
This time, Worf chooses to refuse Gowron's request and turn his back on the Empire. At that moment, we know that there was no way at all that Worf would have known he would have had another chance to save the Empire so he was effectively telling Gowron and the Empire to "go screw yourselves, my honor is more important". It's a far cry from someone who would choose exile to save the Empire. At the time, the Enterprise D had been destroyed and Worf was already considering leaving Star Fleet. He really had the golden opportunity there to go back to the Empire.
Since he felt so strongly about the invasion of Cardasia, he could have instead gone with Gowron on the initial invasion, earned the respect of more of his fellow Klingons, and then worked within the Empire to find out what was really going on and deal with it internally (or covertly get help from the Federation). He's a tactical officer. He would've known (or at least figured) that the Cardasians would've lost some territory regardless of him being there or not. He didn't always have to be the exile that saves the Empire from the shadows. I think he still would've ended up killing Gowron for the same reasons as he did in the original story and made someone else (Martok if he still came back from the Dominion prison camp or some other honorable Klingon) chancellor, but he'd still have his brother and family name in the clear. After the Dominion War, instead of being an ambassador, he could've been given the title of Dahar Master, or ended up as a well respected teacher training future generations of Klingons.
It was because of the klingons and maquis that the cardassians accepted the treaty between Dukat and the Dominion. Dukat was basically no one after his half bajoran daughter was discovered.
On another note what the female changeling told Garrak did become true. She did destory Cardassia Empire.
As Kurn put it something like "A Klingon's honor is more important than his life."
Gowron as stated multiple times is more of a politician than a warrior, very unusual for the Klingons. In classic politician fashion he praises and supports the ones useful to him and cuts them off as soon as they stop beeing useful.
Working with a Gowron is very dangerous, as shown repeated times Gowron is very quick to change his opinion. So what if a week later after a lost battle Gowron decides Worf did not answer quick enough and did not show enthusiasm fit of such a great offer. He would outcast Worf again and he sacrificed his honor for nothing. I think Worf did the right thing. Nothing good would have come out of this.
@@Thatslifebro_ That's why Klingons can Engage in Personal Combat when HONOR is involved.
@@marcusjustice6165 They prefer hand to hand combat rather than weapons.
Gowron is so cool..
Those eyes 👀
hehehe @1:37. Worf didn't speak for the length of the entire commercial break.
Wooooorf why did you stop speaking and stand in the same spot for 2 minutes ? Is it because of that floating cloaked camera aimed at you?
We do not discuss it with outsiders
What a wonderfully expressive face! Gowron would never have been as amazing a character without the talent of Robert O'Reilly.
I love how Gowron's default look seems to be "crazy eyes".
This is a great example of external honor vs internal honor. Honor, ultimately, means acting as people you respect would expect or require you to act. Gowron appeals to external honor (the opinions of the Federation and other Klingons) but he doesn't realize that Worf only obeys internal honor: Worf respects himself, so he won't lower himself to break his word, no matter who he gave it to. It shows how broken Klingon society is and obsessed with external honor, which is really just popularity: they'll break their word and honor in a heartbeat if they think it'll make them look better.
Klingons could be honorable though
To be fair the whole disillusion Worf had was with the traitors to the Romulans (Duras namely. And the High Council) not his own in general
There was an episode of "Voyager" where Klingons tried to talk with Janeway, and they weren't dishonorable. Maybe it's me as admittedly I didn't really see the full episode but that was my impression
Worf kills Gowron three years later...
Gowron and Martok are my two favorite Klingons.
They are great characters and are done well.
The story of Worf and Gowron is one of the most tragic imo.
Although Gowron was a flawed man, he was a great klingon.... perhaps the most klingon character.
And like most klingons, pride was his weakness. It was what led to his downfall.
Gowron may be my favorite secondary Klingon (only beating the DS9 Chef due to screen time). His energy brings so much joy to the Alpha Quadrant, even when he's trying to conquer it.
Every time I hear that "WoooOOORF!", my brain instinctively thinks he's about to rip Worf's head off; then I'm laughing right along with the lunatic as he happily greets the man instead. X'D
Gowron was always one of the best characters on the show. both him and Martok.
2:13 "To people who care nothing for honor" so like you and your Klingon High Council?
The guy playing Gowron deserves an Oscar, he's always all in on the character, with gusto to spare
You mean an Emmy. Oscars are for movies.
I liked him playing a card dealer in the Ocean's 11 heist in the holodeck when Vic was in trouble. You could tell it was him by the eyes lol.
Gowron: After all I've done for you and your family!?
Worf: After I ensured your ascension into your current position!
Chancellor GOwron: "Wooooorf! It is good to see you!" 👀
Worf: And I took that personally
What Gowron doesn't understand is that Worf has always been a great warrior⚔; but not if it means destroying a link🔗 that has brought unity with Klingons & the Federation. In fact, there's an old saying: "Those who desire peace, must accept war. But those who embrace war, must preserve peace"- The Balance⚖.
I also remember 'great men do not seek power, they have power thrusted upon them"
Si Vis Paxum Para Bellum - Publius Flavius credo for the ages
"I have sworn an oath of allegiance!"
"TO THA FEDERASHUUUN!"
Poor Worf. He just can't catch a break.
"Come with me, or else."
Yes, Gowron, very honourable.
You got what you deserve.
If Worf had more diplomatic skills, he could have just said that he has been posted for re-assignment somewhere else in Starfleet and that his brother Kurn will be in his place alongside Gowron instead (even though both Sons of Mogh are against the invasion).
Thus they will both appear to be patriotic and avoid Gowron's wrath.
In time, when the Klingons starts losing the war, Kurn can just killed Gowron for incompetence (rumours was that the next Chancellor was most likely from the House of Mogh as they had the resources and support).... then Kurn can just negotiate for peace or something.
I think Worf could have just delegated Kurn to be in his place without even making any excuses, being the elder brother. However, the invasion was imminent and there was presumably no time left to transport Kurn from the homeworld, which we don't know how far it really is but at least a few days at best and the invasion fleet wasn't going to wait around just for him.
I think Worf was smart enough to think about it, just not immediately, I`m sure most of us need some time to come up with a right answer, so does Worf.
"Your friendship means much to me."
Then Worf kills Gowan later in the series.
3:02 that warm friendly arm on shoulder.... I cannot 😆😆
Worf should’ve had his own show
This scene really showed the lack of honor Gowron had, basically blackmailing a warrior who had done so much for him.
And we saw how it caught up with him in Season 7 with his eventual dishonorable act against Martok.
Gowron was always a scumbag. It just took him gaining power and then becoming afraid of losing that power to a truly honourable man like Martok, for everyone to see it.
All Worf had to say was “Remember who it was who killed Duras”
Chancellor Gowron, you wished to speak with me.
woof.... WOOOOOOOORRRF!!! BYUHAHAHAHAHA
I feel like Worf has to look up whether he's an exile or not whenever he goes into Klingon territory.
TO THE FEDERATION! (Love how wild Gowron is)
“Worf! Why do you stand there like a mute d’blok?”
Commercial break. I need to wait 3 minutes or so before I can reply to you.
Worf and Spock have much to talk about they are both the very epitome of Klingon and Vulcan values but always find that their people will turn on them when they stick to it
0:31 put it on 0.25 playback speed for nightmare fuel
I just realized here that Worf is sort of an Alcibiades character.
I don't remember Gowron being so boisterous.
But he was always an ass.
Gowron would make the perfect Marine Drill Sargeant or Pro Football Coach!!!!!!!!!!!
Awesome scene !
"I assure you, I am not one of them!" That gets me every time lol!
This is good Star Trek.
Yes it was.
Poor Robert O'Reilly. I hope that the producers picked up his expenses for eye drops for his performances. His eyes must have hurt like crap after that.
Gowran is Great!
Gowron reminds me of Tuco Benedicto Pacífico Juan María Ramírez.
Poor old Kurn is in for a surprise.
0:32 How I'm meeting my friend in fleet tomorrow morning.
Someone should put together Gowron The Movie from all TNG and DS9 appearances in chronological order.
I was disappointed when Gowron ultimately turns into a fool.
Gowron is like my brother when he ask's me for money, he never givs up no matter how many times i say "NO"
Klingon Cocaine... It's a hell of drug. Gowron has access to the best stuff.
Gowron sounds like Krusty the Clown
Pretty generous offer from Gowron to be honest
Good characters, good stories. Instantly engrossing.
Except my honor, masterful line and response
“Chancellor Gowron, you wish to speak with me?”
“Woof.”
:30-one of the happiest moments you've ever seen for Gowron, then around 55 seconds-yeah, famous last words Gowron!
Worf......wwwwoooOOoOOOoOOoOOoOrffffffffff
Appearently the Chancellor Gowron wants Worf to pick him over the Federation.
Worf used his brains and decided to stay with the Federation since the USS Enterprise belongs to the Federation.
I don't know what's more scary. Gowon's stare, or him charging at you with that stare.
Thus demonstrating why someone with _actual_ honor should have zeroed Gowron out _looooong_ before this episode. #EzriWasRight
The n Changeling Martok becomes Chancellor and leads the Empire to utter ruin.
Then*
@@sephservant I was thinking more in terms of right after Kaylar's murder. There was nothing to choose between Gowron and Duras, even then.
So be it... Jedi.
WOOOOORRRRRRF! KHAAAAAN!
Those fucking crazy bug eyes!
Such a great character
Gowron, son of Marty, House of Feldman...
I get it. Marty Feldman had bigger bug eyes than Robert O'Reilly as Gowron.
And if the Federation hadn't intervened the Klingons' could have stopped the Cardassians and saved millions of lives.
That would have brought the dominions into the war a little bit more early
I wish they would have gone a different way they could've had warf join him as an undercover than have him help expose the changing and not be dishonored agian
I love those buggy eyes!
That actor did a great job creating yhat character.