For Early Access & Full Length Reactions to this episode as well as the next and all future shows and movies, check out my Patreon: www.patreon.com/peshawariaffan Thank you & Have A Nice 😊
When you're talking about changing fixed points in time that you can read in books, you're thinking about the The Waters of Mars, but that was the point of this episode, the Doctor, was in his phase of 'the Time Lord Victorious' , he changed a fixed point and Adelaide ended her life to avoid any important change to human and space history, the Doctor led a person to commit suicide because he didn't care about Time, that's how the universe responded, and other fixed point changed would create a huge mess, like the Doctor's death on lake Silencio for example, the show is filled with inconsistencies but New Who kept that pretty well honestly, though not perfect The Statue of Liberty thing was weird, again for spectacle, but the angels had the tendancy to break the 4th wall, so I guess while we, the audience was watching the heroes, we weren't watching what was Lady Liberty up to, so she could do what she wanted, it's not a good excuse but I guess it's what we have ^^
There are 5 minisodes between this episode and the next Christmas special. I suggest watching them. They’re all great, and set up a lot of context. -PS -Rory’s Story -Demon’s Run: 2 Days Later -The Great Detective -Vastra Investigates
@N64Cameraman It doesn't appear to be on youtube. But I've shared a link to the only cruddy quality copy I could find. Most minisodes and other optional extras (including classic spots) are planned well in advance, with the proviso to make certain minor inclusions as we go. We discussed during the early series the approach Affan wanted to take.
I'm with you, the Lady Liberty doesn't sit right with me. But that aside. Wow, what an episode!!! This one was a little divisive with people unsure why the Doctor just doesn't go back and save them, but I think they made it pretty clear in the episode. He only got through the first time because of the message river sent (the landing lights) and Amy doesn't have the means to go do that. Interested to see what you think of the next one.
The Statue of Liberty thing is dumb, but it doesn't bring the episode down too much for me, because it's so unused as an element of the episode. Like you could take it and the episode would be exactly the same. Obviously that makes it both silly and useless, but it means it doesn't actually effect my enjoyment of the rest of it, I barely think about it.
Yeah. It’s an eye roll thing. But it is seriously questionable how the copper statue is not being looked at - even if it isn’t the Statue of Liberty it’s awfully big to not be looked at.
Only thing I can think is that there’s so many small angels that they’ve sent the entire population of New York City back in time so there’s nobody left except the Doctor and crew.
The Statue of Liberty (Liberty Enlightening the World), is on Liberty Island. Staten Island is one of New York City's five major divisions, called boroughs.
This one makes me cry. Also Murray Gold outdid himself with the music here. Did you know he only had 2 weeks to score each episode??? Together or not at all is an all timer. I can’t wait for you to watch PS - if that doesn’t make you cry idk what will.
with the Waters of Mars they didnt read their fate, we did. They were just told by the Doctor, in case thats really bothering you. As for the statue of liberty, it doesnt have a camera on it in 1938, which is where they are, and although not probable, angels are silent when they move and at late hours of the night Manhattan is a good place to hide behind tall buildings as it moves, cause even if you catch a glimpse by the time you take a double take its gone. Plus using the statue as an angel has no bearing on the plot.
I always thought they could have hopped in a car, driven to Kansas, and written that in the afterward - so he could pick them up. Then the stone would be unwritten. I mean the Doctor and Martha left the 60s - and their trapped-ness was written in celluloid.
Hey Affan, you should watch all of the Classic Doctor who episodes in order from the First Doctor all the way to the 8th doctor so that you don’t get mumbled up and confused because you are watching them in random and that’s not a good way to watch them, so just from now on if you can, watch Classic Doctor Who from the first Doctor to the 8th doctor
I felt like this era was more about the lives of the Doctor and the Companions, whereas the RTD era was more about going on adventures with the Doctor and the Companions. And that's one of the reasons I prefer the RTD era. The Tenth Doctor and Donna and Wilf (still) hold the top spot for me. I liked The Eleventh Doctor, and Amy & Rory and River. I just didn't really love what they did with them, their story, the things they had them say and do.
Totally agree! I liked them at first but when we reached this point, to me, the show felt more like The Rory and Amy Show, Doctor as sidekick.. and I started out loving Amy, but I don´t really like what they´ve done with their storyline and characters, and I felt like it went on for too long, I was more than ready to say goodbye to them and start a new chapter
Aspects of the plot definitely have issues, but nevertheless the episode works for me because the emotional arc rings true. Weirdly, that makes it more like an RTD episode in a way, as he's on record as saying (something like) he'd sacrifice plot logic in favour of bringing about the desired emotional impact... which was something I intensely disliked about most of his finales... and yet it feels right when done here! This encapsulates for me why I think it's stupid when fans try and prove or disprove to each other that an episode or era is good or bad. There are things that the writers, etc can do which can mean an episode will appeal to more people, and/or to a greater range of types of people, but nothing appeals to (or is disliked by) absolutely everyone.
4:05 the book still has a last page, but the story is left unfinished. So you would always know that there’s more to the story out there. He doesn’t like having the story complete and entirely known without a chance for a last minute twist or extra tidbit. Yes, it doesn’t entirely make sense, but it’s also very common for the human psyche to procrastinate finishing something that you don’t want to admit is coming to an end even if it means you quit participating either way.
For Early Access & Full Length Reactions to this episode as well as the next and all future shows and movies, check out my Patreon: www.patreon.com/peshawariaffan
Thank you & Have A Nice 😊
I always cry at the ending for this episode 😭
When you're talking about changing fixed points in time that you can read in books, you're thinking about the The Waters of Mars, but that was the point of this episode, the Doctor, was in his phase of 'the Time Lord Victorious' , he changed a fixed point and Adelaide ended her life to avoid any important change to human and space history, the Doctor led a person to commit suicide because he didn't care about Time, that's how the universe responded, and other fixed point changed would create a huge mess, like the Doctor's death on lake Silencio for example, the show is filled with inconsistencies but New Who kept that pretty well honestly, though not perfect
The Statue of Liberty thing was weird, again for spectacle, but the angels had the tendancy to break the 4th wall, so I guess while we, the audience was watching the heroes, we weren't watching what was Lady Liberty up to, so she could do what she wanted, it's not a good excuse but I guess it's what we have ^^
Just wanted to through this tear jerker in here
River had just lost her parents, but she kept looking at the angel so the Doctor could grieve
There are 5 minisodes between this episode and the next Christmas special. I suggest watching them. They’re all great, and set up a lot of context.
-PS
-Rory’s Story
-Demon’s Run: 2 Days Later
-The Great Detective
-Vastra Investigates
Affan's been linked in for the first 2 and the last two.
Didn't have a file for Demon's run 2 days later. Do you have a trusted source to share?
PS kills me. It wrecks me every single time.
@@daryl9434 unfortunately I don’t. I always just end up watching it on UA-cam.
@N64Cameraman It doesn't appear to be on youtube.
But I've shared a link to the only cruddy quality copy I could find.
Most minisodes and other optional extras (including classic spots) are planned well in advance, with the proviso to make certain minor inclusions as we go. We discussed during the early series the approach Affan wanted to take.
Some say it is impossible to top this paradox, but then again, expect the impossible
I'm with you, the Lady Liberty doesn't sit right with me. But that aside. Wow, what an episode!!! This one was a little divisive with people unsure why the Doctor just doesn't go back and save them, but I think they made it pretty clear in the episode. He only got through the first time because of the message river sent (the landing lights) and Amy doesn't have the means to go do that. Interested to see what you think of the next one.
The Statue of Liberty thing is dumb, but it doesn't bring the episode down too much for me, because it's so unused as an element of the episode. Like you could take it and the episode would be exactly the same. Obviously that makes it both silly and useless, but it means it doesn't actually effect my enjoyment of the rest of it, I barely think about it.
Yeah. It’s an eye roll thing. But it is seriously questionable how the copper statue is not being looked at - even if it isn’t the Statue of Liberty it’s awfully big to not be looked at.
Only thing I can think is that there’s so many small angels that they’ve sent the entire population of New York City back in time so there’s nobody left except the Doctor and crew.
The Statue of Liberty (Liberty Enlightening the World), is on Liberty Island. Staten Island is one of New York City's five major divisions, called boroughs.
When the Doctor first walked away from them, he did ask "What's the alternative, me standing over your grave?" And here he is, doing just that.
This one makes me cry. Also Murray Gold outdid himself with the music here. Did you know he only had 2 weeks to score each episode??? Together or not at all is an all timer. I can’t wait for you to watch PS - if that doesn’t make you cry idk what will.
with the Waters of Mars they didnt read their fate, we did. They were just told by the Doctor, in case thats really bothering you. As for the statue of liberty, it doesnt have a camera on it in 1938, which is where they are, and although not probable, angels are silent when they move and at late hours of the night Manhattan is a good place to hide behind tall buildings as it moves, cause even if you catch a glimpse by the time you take a double take its gone. Plus using the statue as an angel has no bearing on the plot.
Next episode is named after a Christmas staple in the UK
😊😊
Amy: "..do you think you'll just come back to life?"
Rory: "When don't I?"
I wonder how many times Rory has died (including honorable mentions)
I always thought they could have hopped in a car, driven to Kansas, and written that in the afterward - so he could pick them up. Then the stone would be unwritten. I mean the Doctor and Martha left the 60s - and their trapped-ness was written in celluloid.
Hey Affan, you should watch all of the Classic Doctor who episodes in order from the First Doctor all the way to the 8th doctor so that you don’t get mumbled up and confused because you are watching them in random and that’s not a good way to watch them, so just from now on if you can, watch Classic Doctor Who from the first Doctor to the 8th doctor
I felt like this era was more about the lives of the Doctor and the Companions, whereas the RTD era was more about going on adventures with the Doctor and the Companions. And that's one of the reasons I prefer the RTD era.
The Tenth Doctor and Donna and Wilf (still) hold the top spot for me.
I liked The Eleventh Doctor, and Amy & Rory and River. I just didn't really love what they did with them, their story, the things they had them say and do.
Totally agree! I liked them at first but when we reached this point, to me, the show felt more like The Rory and Amy Show, Doctor as sidekick.. and I started out loving Amy, but I don´t really like what they´ve done with their storyline and characters, and I felt like it went on for too long, I was more than ready to say goodbye to them and start a new chapter
Aspects of the plot definitely have issues, but nevertheless the episode works for me because the emotional arc rings true. Weirdly, that makes it more like an RTD episode in a way, as he's on record as saying (something like) he'd sacrifice plot logic in favour of bringing about the desired emotional impact... which was something I intensely disliked about most of his finales... and yet it feels right when done here!
This encapsulates for me why I think it's stupid when fans try and prove or disprove to each other that an episode or era is good or bad. There are things that the writers, etc can do which can mean an episode will appeal to more people, and/or to a greater range of types of people, but nothing appeals to (or is disliked by) absolutely everyone.
4:05 the book still has a last page, but the story is left unfinished. So you would always know that there’s more to the story out there. He doesn’t like having the story complete and entirely known without a chance for a last minute twist or extra tidbit.
Yes, it doesn’t entirely make sense, but it’s also very common for the human psyche to procrastinate finishing something that you don’t want to admit is coming to an end even if it means you quit participating either way.
The Tenth Doctor said at one point that the "fixed point in time" is a theory... So I just go with that.