Sig Sauer P210 A Accuracy Repeatability Test Various Ammo Ransom Rest
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2019
- Complete first test of the Sig P210A In a Ransom Rest. Testing Various Ammo For Repeatability.
More test will come with heaver grain JHP ammo. This is our first test results. Narrowing down what the gun may like.
Is it me the gun or the ammo? Have you ever shot at a soda can at 15 yards and say. I cant believe I missed that.Can your pistol even hold under 1.5" at 15 yards. If it cant, it may increase your chances of missing.
Accuracy matters. Sure many guns can do a occasional 1.5" or sub 1" group but can they do it repeatable. Some guns may have 3 or 4 rounds that group good once in a awhile but not all 8 rounds. And are they Repeatable 8 round? Again and again. What ammo does the gun like.Is it me the gun or the ammo.
We are here to find out. We do not cherry pick the rounds or groups this is real true results in our videos. This is why you may miss that soda can. If you are not testing you are guessing as they say.
First shots and groups shown here. No special formula no tricks out of box stock and stock ammo.
Ransom Rest test for repeatability. Many various types of ammo shown and used to get a average base line of grouping. More tests to come so stay tuned.
We did not have all ammo in stock so subscribe to channel to get notification, will add more tests and video soon. No special formula,, stock ammo stock gun real world test in real world environment.
This test was done at the 25 yard mark. It grouped very well for the distance.
Once we find the ammo it prefers in this Sig. We will stretch it out to 50. As well as we will do a group at 15. This will give good data.
What ammo does your gun like. What ammo do you prefer. Is it me or the gun. Ransom Rest helps you find this out.
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Thank you so much for getting back to me and in such detail. I do understand all the effort you put into these videos. And you are doing a great job thank you very much I appreciate it.
Atlanta Arms and Wilson Combat both produce very consistent match ammo. Do not be too quick to pass over the 115 grain projectiles. In particular I would love to see that gun firing the Wilson Combat ammo loaded with the 115 grain HAP round. It is a hollow point, but not for terminal ballistics reasons. It is for center of gravity reasons like match rifle ammo.
Great video. Any reason why all of that animal I have a 5 inch barrel is at least 100 to 150 ft./s slower than the advertised velocities?
Great job Guys. I came to this video as I have an interest in how well the P210 performs.
You stress the first round flyer maybe due to the hand racked slide. What if the slide was closed, as if in battery, before the loaded magazine was inserted and then rack the slide putting a round into the chamber? This way the first round is also reacting to the slides movement both for backwards and forwards.
Looking forward to your next testing. Thanks and keep your powder dry.
Right we can give that a try. This hand rack round some have referred to as a cold bore shot. but after many rounds the bore is not cold. We actually see this in many if not all semi autos Rifles and pistols. Forces applied to seat round are not the same forces as when it auto cycles. when it auto cycles it really slams that bullet into chamber. We will try it may make a difference and minimize that fluctuation. Thank you for the input and idea.
@Earl Pavoiux I would suspect the same thing that releasing slide from lock position would impart the same force, But truthfully no matter how hard you pull it and drop it or drop the release the slide does not slam down like when it does when it auto cycles. The first round flyer was not constant per say throughout the ammo spectrum, As with other guns. So the throat barrel to round clearance is good it appears. It could very easily be a slight bullet crimp or alignment when racked. It also could be a fluke. Without more testing I can not say if this one will continue to have the flyer round. In some situations when we find the right ammo and grain first round flyer becomes minuscule or none evident, others it is very evident. We will evaluate this and see if it happens at the 50 yard line with the heaver grain ammo we have. If it is there the 50 yard will expound on that. That variation will become evident if it actually exists, It will become more evident or not when we narrow the ammo down to what this gun likes.
If I was going to shoot that other ammo the flyer seams evident. But I do not know at this time if that is the best ammo. More test on its way. It could also be the ammo is loaded to a smaller bullet case height then the other ammo. and that semi auto cycle force, just seats them better during auto cycle but not rack. Measuring bullet seat height would have to be done. To narrow down that question. .003 is known to make that difference. If it has that clearance when the round goes off until it enters barrel the bullet can enter barrel funny shearing one side of bullet or deflecting its balanced flight.
You're going to want to get some ammo from Atlanta Arms for this test.
Well do you recommend this firearm for target shooting?
I wish I could do that with my bare hands. I'm getting there but I seem to have hit a plateau that I can't overcome. I guess I'll just never be as steady as a bench rest😔
Sorry about my last comment I was using voice to text. What I meant to say is will there be any reason why the velocities from the Sigg P2 105 inch barrel is at least 100 to 150 ft./s less then what I am getting from my other 4 inch barrel 9 mm?
Absolutely and a good question. I did not have the labradar on muzzle trigger I set it to doppler radar trigger. Most likely we were not picking up bullet until a couple feet from muzzle. I do this manly as comparison of velocities If a round fly's a bit different I have data to investigate.
I am not really measuring muzzle velocities, as much as just FPS between rounds. With the lab radar you must have muzzle placed by radar appropriately and it also must pick up the muzzle blast, to trigger the radar to come on.
You may notice in this setup it was out front of muzzle, and only set to radar. So whatever bullet ran in front of radar got picked up at that point in space. FPS was not at the muzzle, sorry about that. FPS data was more like 3 to 4 feet from muzzle It picks the round up at the same point in space but is not muzzle.. Hope this helps.. Let me know .
Why I do this is because I am more interested in the group size and ammo to narrow down what the gun likes, and only use the radar to verify round variation for data purposes. In the past if i did not have radar placed right to the muzzle and rest, it would miss a round. So I run as radar trigger.
Manly due to I am lazy as well as allows room on table, Radar does not have to be so close to gun muzzle. as well as I want to get the test done as quick as possible, To find what ammo groups the best, and do not want to spend the extra 3 min aligning the radar to the gun muzzle. Muzzle velocity is not my concern as much as FPS variation for round to round, flight. Setting up the 3 Cameras and targets as well as changing targets between groups and data collection takes time and I cut out some unneeded setup variation like muzzle trigger. This allows me to just set it anywhere on bench pointing down range turn it on and go. Hope that helps. Please give me any input I am here to help. Hope this helps explain some.
Great video and awesome equipment! But you tested crappy ammo. People don’t buy P210A and then use junk for ammo.
While a good baseline, I wish you ran some 147 match grade ammo. Shit....I’ll even send you some! Happy to do so if you do this again!
Right.. And baseline it is. Now we did run some good Hornady and Sig ammo that tested very well in other guns. Issue we had is my fault I did not have enough variation of heaver grain ammo with me at the time. Both ammo brand we used was a lighter grain . Obvious to me know.
We now have some Hornady and sig in heaver grain ammo 135 and 147 grain as well as a federal. We will group this again as mentioned in video. this time with that ammo as comparison. We will also group it out to 50 yards with best ammo we found. If you have a particular stock ammo you want tested, let us know. Or you can send it to us if you like we will video and test it, chances are we may have it . We will test the Hornady XTP ammo 147 grain and 135. also the federal premium in 135 ,147 grain ,Fiocchi 147 grain Sig v crown in 147 grain and we will try the Federal Syntech 150 grain also. This will be our next test. If there is a brand you like we do not have let us know. I will try to pick some up.
I noticed in this video you didn't have the first round deviation that you sometimes have. In the first 2 strings you charged the gun by doing a slingshot with the slide then raising the gun and pushing it down against the stop. In other videos where you push the gun down then use the slide release you would get a pretty bad first round deviation. I don't know what part of this procedure is causing the first round deviation. Maybe it is because you are pushing down on the gun through the slide stop while you don't do that for any other rounds. Also I wondered if dropping the slide while the rest is against the stop makes a difference in how the gun is seated in the inserts. Many times in this video when you used the slide stop while the rest was against the stop the first round went low but usually not very much low.
This is good comments, and I will do my best to keep this informative and short as I can. There are a few things to consider here for the first-round flyer. I don't want this confusing so the simple answer to keep in mind here is that the forces applied racking the first round are not the same forces applied when the gun auto cycles. Period. This doesn't matter if you rack or drop slide. Forces are not the same. When the gun auto cycles it will seat that round way harder in the gun than if you rack it. That is the simplest answer, on a new gun this can be an issue or let's say more evident. This can go away after breaking in on some models, but others it may never goes away. Or may become minor. We also see this sometimes with last round due to magazine pressure. You may have seen some competitors after racking first round hit the back of slide, this can be why. Or first shot in dirt then holster. This is not a cold bore issue as some say it is a hand rack issue as you take note of. Some people have commented they eliminated this hand rack flyer by polishing the slide lug, others say they eliminate it by changing the slide recoil spring. We have clearly noticed the flyer on some model guns go away after break in. On that note we are currently doing that demo test with a new Springfield armory 1911 it has a hand rack flyer new out of box, this flyer is seen with all ammo we tested, we are doing a break in and then will test to show this flyer if and when it goes away. This will be good info and demo. Granted no gun or barrel is the same but this will help answer how many rounds (100, 200, 300 ) may be needed to break that barrel and feed ramp, slide lug and spring in to eliminate the flyer. stay tuned for that video.
May note some ammo rack into the slide differently than other ammo. So, we have also seen the flyer with some ammo and not others. Ammo matters. This will be determent by bull nose, or round nose or hollow point. As you know. As well as bullet height to cartridge. But regarding your observation and comment of rack then return to the battery stop. Or I may say as far as racking the gun and then bringing it up then down, you can do this, some do. But it will not change this hand rack flyer. Keep in mind forces applied are not the same as when it auto cycles. Racking the gun vs. dropping the slide, on some models it makes a large difference. Or if its new it can make difference. Some models don't care if you rack or drop slide, it will have that flyer round. Other models like the Sig M17 it does make a difference. this Sig M17 I speak of gave a drop slide flyer, where hand racking it did not have a flyer. Some guns like the Staccato doesn't matter if you hand rack or drop slide there is no flyer at all right out of the box. Many guns we test do not have that flyer. But a lot of guns we test are new or not broke in, so it shows this flyer or this flyer is more evident as noted here. These are things some writers have referred to years ago as the 6 and 1 or the 8 in 1 scenario. Depending on magazine capacity. Either way, this is why you test your gun, and this is one of those things you learn when using a repeatable test platform Ransom Rest. Also, why no gun goes into service for military, FBI or other agencies without that Ransom Rest test. This is why. This flyer is obviously seen on all semi autos Rifles included. Not seen on bolt actions or revolvers. But yes, all semi autos. Sometimes the flyer is very small or minuscule sometimes it is 1" difference. Most cases we see this go away after break in. Many P210s don't do this after break in. Ask any question you have. I hope this was informative and helps answer your question. Is it me the gun the ammo. Only Ransom Rest will let you know. As you know, no gun is the same no ammo is the same this is why we test.
@@Ransomrest This is very interesting information. Please don't take anything I say as criticism of your work and I am not questioning your equipment or your procedures. You're the experts in this, not me.
I was wondering more in terms of what the gun is doing in the inserts, for instance when you push down on the slide stop you are pushing the gun down into the inserts a little bit, something that doesn't happen on the other shots. I was also wondering about the dynamics of pushing the rest down to its stop each time and if that is disrupted by dropping the slide. I've watched Accuracy-X videos where they have a similar technique for raising the gun then pushing down against the stop. They never seem to have a first round flyer but then they built the guns themselves and they may be fitted in such a way that they don't require break-in. I can't speak for any of that, I'm an engineer so I like to ask questions and find a reason for behavior like this.
@@Ransomrest I've watched more of your videos specifically the Staccato and the M9 vs M17. In those there was sometimes a first round deviation and sometimes not, but usually it was not as much as with the P210. This disproves my theory that using the slidestop has some kind of odd affect on the function of the rest.
I am more interested in seeing how accurate this gun is freehand at 75 yards. Compared to the Sig P226 SAO legion how does this compare?
Looks like every first round ends up a flyer. To me to really find the firearm mechanical accurately, disregard the first chambered round loaded by hand.
Please try at 50 meters
Will do. We will get some more various ammo for comparison we will do another 25 then stretch to the 50 compare the best ammo at 50 with a couple various groups maybe then we may take the best to 75 for info. But we will end on a 15 yard right around hand gun defense range . Thank you for following us thank you for the input. If you have any particular factory ammo request let us know we will try it.
And Swiss P210s from 1950s were shooting 2" groups from 50 meters. Gotta try harder, New Hampshire folks...
No problem will do this was the first run through of the various ammo for info reasons. We also wanted to show variation at the 25 just to start. Some do not understand yardage and group size. they all want to see a 1" group . More test to come. once we nail down the ammo we will not only do a 50 but we will pull it back to normal hand gun defense range of 15 yards as well for info and data collection. Hope it will help stay tuned. Ransomrest.com We have shrunk many stock 1911s to 1.375" 1.5" at 50 yards so we do believe this should group good at 50.
Swiss tolerance and much tighter fit on slide.
I think my Glock 43 shoots better at that range