True it is hard.. but its also necessary to have extra production space in case of war. These companies have to be prepared for that scenario as much as our soldiers should too… But yes, military should also make a proper procurement plan…
A good episode. I have flown in these helicopters frequently, particularly Cheetah in Siachen and elsewhere, as a young officer and later as a senior officer. This was of course several years back. Most of those flights in these rickety single engine helicopters were nightmares. On more than one occasion, some survive by the skin of their teeth. If you can dig up the data, you'd be horrified to note the number of young pilots we have lost and keep losing, particularly from Army Aviation (earlier called Air OP) due to tech faults. While our bureaucrats, and l daresay, senior Def brass keep upgrading their official cars to the best available in the market, (the cost comparison between cars and helicopters is partially offset by the huge number of cars in service), we do not seem to be doing enough to replace these ancient helicopters which belong in a museum. Good that you raised this vital issue. As an interim measure, we should immediately buy a few off the shelf from the international market. HAL, despite its packed order book, does not inspire confidence. Best regards Maj Gen S Pachory VSM (Retd)
Why does our Government keep on blowing our trumpet when the ground realities are different?? Why risk the life of our brave pilots when it is a well known fact that even exported choppers have been crushing.???
Sir, your point about obsolete choppers and latest cars set me thinking... Right now we have a policy in Delhi NCR ( but not in the rest of the country) where 10/15 yr old vehicles are to be compulsorily scrapped. If the vehicle owner could renew the registration by paying into the Armed Forces Fund, it would be a win-win situation 🙏
Dear sir, from a young defence enthusiast and engineer; What about HAL does not inspire confidence, and what can we do to fix it so that Indian soldiers need not fight with outdated equipment?
SG Tumakuru Helicopter Facility has a current capacity of 30 choppers annually, but can be upgraded to 60-90 a year if orders are placed. HAL CMD has already stated, they're looking at increasing production to 90/year, with 25 a year capacity for LCH Prachand orders alone(156 expected).
The fact that he chose not to mention this properly feels weird to me, almost like he's pushing an agenda. There are multiple press releases telling how HAL can expand its production capabilities.
Its a great time to spinoff the helicopter division as a separate company and allow it to raise money to build factories to build helicopters.That would lead to increased efficiency and speed of delivery.
The Tumkur plant of HAL will have the ability to produce 100+ helicopters per annum. But it will not produce more than 30. Because it will get the orders from the services needed to sustain the production of 100 choppers per annum. That is the sad reality of Indian defence. The industry is more than capable of meeting the demands. But the services are busy dreaming of exotic future capabilities. While the bread and butter requirements remain unmet.
We already have Asia's biggest Helicopter Factory under HAL which manufactures everything from components to engines to the airframe and avionics. Problem is lack of orders and comittment from the armed forces. For example just look at how Army and Air force are dragging FOC clearance for LUH and hesitant to give the committed 90/65 order for Prachand. Meanwhile they're looking for stop gap arrangements like borrowing used Light utility choppers, still vying ka226 despite the underperformance and geopolitical risks, the same forces are ready to spend crucial capital in procuring Apaches which cost 150mn a pop as compared to prachand which costs around 32.5mn a pop and can easily fill in all the requirements.
That is why I want to see the young indians at forefront of innovation rather slogging off behind computers in service sector what Narayana Murthy is recommending and quality of research paper of china is improving
There is no meritocracy even in research. Bihar state govt is raising the reservation to 75 pc and Southern state it is close to 70 pc. You can't aspire research with no merit scientists in government backed organisations which do research primarily.
Typical Indian bureaucracy trying to push files under the table - for the simple reason that post retirement they don’t receive the midnight knock on their door by agencies !
Actually sir, while the lack of modernisation is true but it is also true that real money has started flowing in armed forces only in the last decade. We are seeing very rapid modernisation beginning with Air force heavy and medium lifters followed by MIG repacement. In helicopter we have a versatile platform like Dhruv but at the end resources are finite and in many ways it's a legacy challenge for us.
Indian defense procurement is like preparing bhel. You add a little of everything. Which is why it is very hard to take advantage of economy of scale, and achieve compatibility of hardware and software with our security partners. It makes no sense to purchase defense equipment from Russia, and then go on to partner with US and its allies! US and NATO have a completely different standard that is simply not compatible with Russian counterparts.
Indian Army to change main assault Rifle after 28 years, Navy to change its Air fleet after 25 years, Air force got 1st new aircraft after 20 years, even basic like boot , helmet , bullet proof jackets were imported, Scorpene deals with no progress for 8 years, now completed, Tejas with no or little progress seen flying after 20 years, Indigenous aircraft carrier after decades.........endless list ---all changes came after 2014 ------where there is a will there is a way
Grateful for your lucid explanation on this vital topic. The delays are attributable to many cogs in the system...armed forces being one, the budget..you mentioned, bureaucracy, years of non development of pvt sector Defence production. And now we have half literates as opposition who keep harping against pvt sector involvement in Defence production. Would love to hear a candid CTC on such people who aspire to hold bigger positions of authority without a speck of comprehension of geopolitics, national security et al.
Can they manufacture LUH through a private company using an SPV model? They can actually sign ToT with multiple private companies. That would boost the overall aerospace and defense sector. Private companies can also do the export orders which will subsidize the domestic market
Why manufacture through private? The problem is not the supply or speed of production but the lack of orders. LUH and Prachand were delivered before!/on time. And private sector is no Brahmastra that can fix the manufacturing. Infact private players like Tata and others have hardly gone beyond assembly and Joint Ventures.
Dear SG, the production capacity is designed based on the demand. If our forces place order HAL can increase the production capacity. As of now we can't simply increase the production capacity. Production capacity will be in tandem with the order book.
Dear SG, thanks so much for flagging this critical issue up. The funny & sorry part of this is that every stakeholder is aware of & undertands the necessity & urgency of the situation and still, we are unable to break out from the shackles of indecision, mediocrity & 'chalta hai' attitudes. Being optimistic about our indegenous capabilities is great, as long as we put strict timelines to our optimism... Plan Bs have to kick in whenever timelines are violated, rather than perpetuating this optimism that someday, we shall have an indegenous top-of-the-line fighting machine rolling out of HAL stables (given time, it may...but we can't compromise the efficiency of our forces and lives of our soldiers and consequently, the most ntegrity of this country, on a tenuous thread of hope forever). Yes...defence of our nation is a costly business. If we keep feeling bad about spending for our security and end up compromising on the same, I'm afraid we'll cross the tipping point soon...god forbid. Sensitising, reminding and sometimes scandalising to jolt the decision makers regularly is the only way to cure this dangerous complacency in the defence ministry...Keep at it, SG!! Hrt job!!
One of the part you missed out is recruitment and training. It is not just Indian politics, business, cinema are plagued with dynastic nepotism, Indian military, particularly officer corps, pilots are fully nepotism. Accidents happens in all military but the rate and number of incidents in indian aircraft are unbelievable amounts. Real talents are not welcomed but Inept recruitment, nepotism, memorizing some formulas are the priorities I'm indian military pilot recruitment. Any rukie pilot wouldn't fly in to bad mountain weather, yet the so called experienced pilot crying chief of defense staff flew into Ooty mountain and tried to land inside a forest. The nepotism culture is preventing indian advancement in every field.
Indian armed forces have been unimaginative, not on tows and almost callous. Kargil showed high altitude helicopters lacunae. Balakot showed BVR missiles too short in range. This is in spite of superiority of Air to air missiles in Kargil, which was lost. Infantry has body armor and good helmets only now. Soldiers deserve scopes and night vision on rifles, still missing. LCH does not have long range air to air missiles and anti tank missiles. Navy does not have heavy torpedoes and 150 MM big guns. SU 30 does not have AESA radars. Most of the aircraft’s are museum pieces. The story is so bad, we should fire all decision makers in the military and defense ministry. But do we have guts? NO. Do we lack imagination, yes of course. Very sad story indeed. 🥲🥲🥲
To ramp up production. HAL could out source the production of major components like helicopter fuselage production to Tata Advanced Systems Ltd which already makes fuselage for Sirkosky S-92. HAL can then act as system integrator with Final Assembly Line for LUH , LCH and so on.
For now, Logistics can be overcome with land based transports. Attack role choppers needed for the current time. And for areas where land based ones cant go, we need limited orders of LUH.
Question is not just how to meet imargency requirements,but how all needs slowly turns into urgent necessity. Why not act in a planned manner, why indigenous products get exclusive requirements, why specific requirements like autopilot not planned to induct in block/phased upgrades?
Very apt and much needed analysis . These videos should be tagged to PMO and the defence ministry. We shouldn't be losing our forces by operating such dated systems. Hope our politicians take note and act on this 😢
This is why we need private companies in development and manufacturing of defence equipments. HAL cannot alone work. Not to mention its highly inefficient too.
HAL has a Joint Venture with a Canadian company to train helicopter pilots by simulation including combat. Due to apathy and hostile attitude of the Canadian partners the project is suffering and remains under utilised. A story you can cover to draw attention of powers that matter
Can't agree more with the comparision to the medical process. Indian armed forces are lagging behind. Even on basics like rifles for infantry. Low number of Rafales for the IAF and even the IN is suffering from low number of vessels and lower number of missles per ship compared to similar navies.
Don't fix it if aren't broken. These equipment have a high capital cost and with such a large army of 1.4 million men and equally large number of retired personnel most of the budget goes in sustaining the opex. With Agniveer and other programs the Defense is trying to reduce its manpower footprint, but it will take time to switch gears for such a large force.
Hi Shekarji, Raj here from a far away planet. 20 years have been noticing, no mainstream rich ultrarich News Channels, newspapers, Mazgines politicians owned TV channels speak about Ex-Gratia settlements for various segments of accidents, yet the politically owned govt bodies or departments holds or keeps ex-gratia settlements funds in a very large numbers at both state and central for various accidental and natural disasters events. Now, if the total cost of ex-gratia as compensation are kept on hold, for events to happen, then release funds as compensation, where is the upgrade plan and implementation.
Hindustan Rotorcrafts Limited. That's the solution. From what I understand, warplanes and rotorcraft have different design requirements and very different supply chains. In an aeronautics company, like Boeing and Airbus, helos are a different division. But in India's sarkari babu-neta culture, helos need to be a completely different company with executive responsibility for full life cycle of rotorcraft.
The US still uses B-52 bombers, first induced in 1952. I think it would be nice if you also compared which other major powers continue to use so called "legacy" systems and in what capacity.
Current B52s have only legacy fuselage, rest of everything is cutting edge. There's no comparison at all. We couldn't procure engines for our Jaguar fleet but still flying them!
@@dkq986and who’s fault it that? I don’t recall the cream of the crop engineers going to either HAL or IAF at that ? If “you” can’t attract smart ppl then it’s a “you” problem
Means: When an accident occurs, the system immediately, releases ex-gratia compensation settlements towards a accident, while the system never improves since 1947-2023, at all states?
Modi is the greatest. He will glorify Bharat with the biggest & best equipment. In fact he already has it all. Will announce it in his next Mann ki Barat.
Indian planners messed it up delaying Ka 226T deal. Now we should order at least 100 ka 226T at fly away condition and brought some more Chinook while HAL should be ordered for 300 LUH.
Only 1.4 lack cr is year- marked for capital expendirure though more than 5 lacks cr is the defence budget. One of the many criteria is one post one pension.
India might possibly have the most corrupt defense procurement in the world - Artillery stuck with no movement in ATAGS, Arjun Tank development goals kept changing, Tejas procurement happened after a lot of pressure. All this would be fine but our security environment is rapidly deteriorating and in some ways current times looks like prelude to WW3. Looks like there is no way out.
Hal has made a whole separate factory in tumkur only for helicopters of lch , luh , imrh & dhruv class , it is just that army is not placing orders , & undergoing trials after trails of simple things
There are media reports that Orlan drone sends targets to the Lancet loitering munition drone, there are not many reports on drone and helicopter coordination that I could see.
We talk about MiG 21 fighters crashing. How many of our helicopters have crashed in Siachen? There don't seem to be issues with the performance of the Cheetah and the Chetak helicopters till date. We don't know how the LUH will perform, but still, efforts are being made to replace the old helicopters with them, because we can't acquire Russian light helicopters due to the war in Ukraine.
Can you please do a similar video for fighter jets. With the way things are going pakistan will be inducting turkish TFX 5th gen fighter and we will br flying limited rafael in front of it.
The Armed Forces are also cunning in the Sense that They order Very Little especially from Private Corps and ask them with Infinite extras At the same Time keeping Costs low(Ex: Kalyani M4, Tata Kestrel, Mahindra ASLV, etc) nothing of such ever Happens, Coz You have to Order in A Huge Bulk to keep costs low and Do not use a Dozen different National Systems
Make in India is the best option. If we have blue prints and progress while series production always is the best way to improve. Maruti cars is the best example. There are few companies around the world that have the depth on engineering skills HAL has. It keeps the Air Force flying. This current government has its priorities correct and in the years to come Indian defence production will be a strength and force multiplier. In many cases it was vested interests that have derailed and curtailed growth of the Defence manufacturing. PM Modi must be hailed as the leader that cut through the noise and motored make in india for defence. These are not the best in class platforms but they are the best we can do. The 1st Dhruv helicopter and the ones rolling out now there is a huge improvement and difference in the makeup. You will have a supply of around 130 per annum helicopters in India in the coming years and 30 LCA per annum. 600 LCA will overwhelm any force which I feel we will need to get by that time you will have upgrades. Indian doctrine has always been small agile on LCA has that and the Prachand and Dhruv match up to all in its class. Look out for the heavy lift helicopters after LUH is in production. The new stealth ones are coming too. Salute the leadership to change things and the mind sets.
It takes time to develop the procurement process, operational up gradation will take time. This question must be asked to governments before 2014. There is no magic wand to upgrade the trio forces in one go and the paramilitary forces too. Also the police reforms still need to be implemented, lot of rework needs to be done. I hope the India brigade is listening to these issues.
So, ex-gratia as accident compensation funds of public services are not to develop the flaws, in a constant basis,as good as politicians, IAS, IPS, party members use their automobile, & smart phones, consumer durables, digital gizmos, which has been upgraded by the manufacturer in a constant basis, but Govt owned transportation services or infrastructures does not gets an upgrade, since 20+ years, rather to compensate? Does this make any sense since 76 BOC years?
Mr Gupta left out a key reason behind lack of modernisation of defence forces which is long duration of lack of political Intent and high corruption. Lack of resources is not the main problem.
9:47 Sekarji thanks for keeping tab on moniting the defence capabilities and their important projects. Without this we cannot be independent in the world political scenario and we will be overrun
Very good episode. Indian government should probably consider getting the LUH manufactured outside India. Good old subcontracting. These are logistics helicopters. No big defence secrets are going to be revealed.
Since independence till now the indian military and politicians have no strategy to contaion the ongoing threat from its twin terror china and pakistan. Post independent indian military leadership are confused lot and have no out box ideas to tackle the enemies. When asked by media why there are many heavily armed china army assembled near indian border, the ex army chief Navarane said he dont know. Althought indians served in the colonial british army for more than 200 years, all the officers ranks are white and they plan the war tactics. Post independence, indian army leadership are confused and did not have clear strategy to tackle the enemis. They seem to be comfortable in their own world and out of touch with latest war techniques.
We need to give each branch of the armed forces one-time $100 billion modernisation fund to be used only for strategic acquisitions. This should be seperate from the normal budget to bring our equipment to a decent standard.
with all due respect Shekhar saab please also see that if indian helicopter is to be purchased by our armed forces then please include monopoly factor of HAL.Why private sector has not entered into this area of manufacturing ,please make a video and enlighten us saab. I think that our defence manucturing industry primarily being PSUs never thought of having VERTICALS in this area?In olden days if you wanted to buy a car then its either Premier padmini or Ambasador.What happened to them when LPG policy was brought in? This is high time that the Govt.Catalyses the formation of INDIAN MILITARY COMPLEX. Its all engineering machines.Are govt.Jobs attracting the Best of our Engineers?I don't think so.Nowhere in the world is the Govt. anywhere near to pay packages offered by private sector.Hence our Govt.should act as a catalyst to Indian Military Complex.Time has come for it.Right now what is happening is outsourcing the manufacturing.That's all. Military Technology Verticals.We need to grow and finially have our own Design Table of World Standard.Thank you the wonderfull videos You make Shekhar saab.
Hey SG, Great topic and excellent explanation. Feels like you know our armed forces through and through. Also pertinent topic related to forces is subject of “Short Service Commission” Officers especially of Army, we don’t have proper exit procedures for these officers after their initial terms of engagement, they are not provided with pension or NPS contribution and transparency in awarding PC is non existent. We have had great officers from this entry and they are passionate about their jobs, it’s required to be highlighted. In last four years or so many officers are being released by Army. You have lot of contacts with army top brass, please take into account views of junior officers. - Harish
Now IAS, Jury advocates have ignored this system rather to improve the system by allocating funds to collages to MSMEs, while political parties have a Gala time, with party workers, media coverages creating a scene of compensation.
In H’Bad a DRDO factory has been in operation for the last 40 yrs. This factory was designed by young IIT grads when there were only 5 IITs. This factory produces special high temperature alloys needed to build Jet and Rocket engines. But the Jet Engines which were to use these materials have been a FAILURE. The Engines ( like the Kaveri for the LCA Tejas ) designed by another section of DRDO ( it’s GTRE ) Cabot produce the designed thrust so India has to import GE Engines from the US to power the Tejas ( which in itself is crippled by poor aerodynamic design, consequently uncompetitive to the PAFs 40 yr old F - 16s ). The root cause of India’s perpetual problems in technology, especially Defense is in the poor quality of manpower, both at Delhi Ministries in the North and the R&D plus production units clustered in the South and staffed mostly by third rate graduates from Degree Mills in the South. This North - South Axis of Incompetence & Greed that has taken over India is what has held it back since Independence and made it fall so far behind China in just 30 years ( from near parity in 1990 to GDP now only one fifth ! ). The Delhi - Bengaluru Axis of incompetence must be replaced by the best trained at new focused interdisciplinary Defense oriented programs at the 5 original IITs plus IISc. They should have a broad scope starting from Strategy & Planning to testing of finished products
Hal is biggest importer aircraft parts and does a screwdriver job... engines, flight control system, etc etc.. our defence procurement is man-made beautiful mess.. create artificial supply/production crunch and bottleneck.. create technical requirements extremely high.. don't open the pvt sector in defence production.. create complex and delayed purchase process..then create urgent ..emergency war requirements.. vola order/import at double the price... perfect recipe for making some .. unfortunately we can't design manufacture a world class decent assault rifle or handgun pistol and here we are talking about helicopters, drones..aircraft. No country in this world has become a military power by importing equipment... Absolutely not one country.
manufacture of aircraft's and helicopter's are in different factories. No reason why they cannot deliver both. The problem is mainly funding related and the armed forces dithering as they prefer foreign maal.
On the contrary sir, armed forces prefer tried and tested reliable “maal”, soldier doesn’t differentiate between Indian and foreign equipment he just wants a fail safe equipment. We accepted INSAS (Relatively unreliable rifle system) and suffered, that makes experience of acquiring Indian systems troublesome. Commanders want to win and not foster Indian manufacturers.
@@harishdeshpande1159 I thought the main issue with INSAS was with the caliber. The 5.56 has lower kinetic energy than the heavier 7.62 and so the 5.56 had a shorter effective range. This was not an issue with the INSAS as such but rather of the requirements to switch to 7.62 just based on the brochure based design
@@TheLargeoldshoe on the contrary, 7.62 has shorter effective range for equivalent ammunition, 7.62 is more destructive as compared to 5.56 which is designed to damage enemy out of battlefield and not kill. INSAS, although very accurate, had major issues related to reliability and required extensive maintenance. Reliability issues led to driving away of INSAS otherwise it was possible to change INSAS caliber to 7.62. INSAS is a reverse engineered AK with three round burst mechanism stuck on it.
@@harishdeshpande1159 much of the issues you point to regarding misfiring as well as unreliability of INSAS is 90% due to the shitty bullets coming out of the ordinance factories. Other issues such as polymer breakage etc could be easily handled by going back to a metal design with a slit for viewing bullets.
@@TheLargeoldshoe True! But Same logistical channels are used to manufacture 7.62 ammunition which prove to be more reliable in operations. These issues were addressed in 1B1 iteration, but usage of sheet metal and unreliable three round burst mechanism spoiled party. We have to accept that the system was faulty, and forces can’t have half baked small arms. In SG’s cricket analogy player like Shreyas Iyer maybe a good batter but if he is getting out cheaply over and over again, he should be dropped.
Good analysis. But it is not explained why we are at state. HAL with all due respect still operates as a state organisation. This culture needs to change. They need to innovate. As per as defence procurement goes, it’s sticky as you said money is finite, and due to decades of mismanagement and improper planning we lack equipment to support the skills of our defenders. I think we need to accept the current situation, continue to focus and report on the shortcomings, and highlight the achievements. HAL needs to invest on R&D, work closely with the thousands of engineering colleges and make its products of better quality and export products and become profitable instead of being dependent on government funds. They can go for JVs with private organisations etc. The mindset is still not there. Governments will come and go. Some will focus on defence tech some won’t..
Your argument would only make sense at a chai tapri. In the world of knowledgeable citizens, it's a known fact that HAL is a lead integrator and not the manufacturer, i.e, private companies manufactures sub systems and components, no private company came forward for a JV when tenders were floated and there is an issue with the procurement process of Indian Army where they strike the absolute worst financial deal.
Instead of wasting money on vanity projects, the central government could have eased the pressure on the armed forces, or have expanded the health-care and educational facilities available to poorer citizens.
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Procurement is a huge mess in our Armed Forces. Armed Forces places few orders and expects companies to maintain production lines. You can't do both.
True it is hard.. but its also necessary to have extra production space in case of war.
These companies have to be prepared for that scenario as much as our soldiers should too…
But yes, military should also make a proper procurement plan…
Few orders? Armed forces operate 99% ALH. No one else will buy it. Forces are forced to buy
@@aahna_anaayahe is talking about in genreal also alh is ancient technology
@@Myanmartiger921What Ancient??😂😂
@@wisdomhighschool9975 moron wants F-35 to fulfill medium utility chopper roles.
A good episode. I have flown in these helicopters frequently, particularly Cheetah in Siachen and elsewhere, as a young officer and later as a senior officer. This was of course several years back. Most of those flights in these rickety single engine helicopters were nightmares. On more than one occasion, some survive by the skin of their teeth. If you can dig up the data, you'd be horrified to note the number of young pilots we have lost and keep losing, particularly from Army Aviation (earlier called Air OP) due to tech faults.
While our bureaucrats, and l daresay, senior Def brass keep upgrading their official cars to the best available in the market, (the cost comparison between cars and helicopters is partially offset by the huge number of cars in service), we do not seem to be doing enough to replace these ancient helicopters which belong in a museum. Good that you raised this vital issue. As an interim measure, we should immediately buy a few off the shelf from the international market. HAL, despite its packed order book, does not inspire confidence.
Best regards
Maj Gen S Pachory VSM (Retd)
Why does our Government keep on blowing our trumpet when the ground realities are different?? Why risk the life of our brave pilots when it is a well known fact that even exported choppers have been crushing.???
Sir, your point about obsolete choppers and latest cars set me thinking...
Right now we have a policy in Delhi NCR ( but not in the rest of the country) where 10/15 yr old vehicles are to be compulsorily scrapped.
If the vehicle owner could renew the registration by paying into the Armed Forces Fund, it would be a win-win situation 🙏
Dear sir, from a young defence enthusiast and engineer; What about HAL does not inspire confidence, and what can we do to fix it so that Indian soldiers need not fight with outdated equipment?
Hey come ur profile is fake
I knew this comment was forced by 😂😂 USA #uncle SAM
SG Tumakuru Helicopter Facility has a current capacity of 30 choppers annually, but can be upgraded to 60-90 a year if orders are placed.
HAL CMD has already stated, they're looking at increasing production to 90/year, with 25 a year capacity for LCH Prachand orders alone(156 expected).
The fact that he chose not to mention this properly feels weird to me, almost like he's pushing an agenda. There are multiple press releases telling how HAL can expand its production capabilities.
The manufacturing capacity isn't a problem. Problem is that IAF won't order from HAL as they want imported toys for bribe reasons
do you ever thought it was fake news@@oadka
@@oadka HAL have nothing to do with it. Tell MoD and IAF to give sufficient orders.
Its a great time to spinoff the helicopter division as a separate company and allow it to raise money to build factories to build helicopters.That would lead to increased efficiency and speed of delivery.
The Tumkur plant of HAL will have the ability to produce 100+ helicopters per annum.
But it will not produce more than 30.
Because it will get the orders from the services needed to sustain the production of 100 choppers per annum.
That is the sad reality of Indian defence.
The industry is more than capable of meeting the demands. But the services are busy dreaming of exotic future capabilities. While the bread and butter requirements remain unmet.
We already have Asia's biggest Helicopter Factory under HAL which manufactures everything from components to engines to the airframe and avionics. Problem is lack of orders and comittment from the armed forces. For example just look at how Army and Air force are dragging FOC clearance for LUH and hesitant to give the committed 90/65 order for Prachand. Meanwhile they're looking for stop gap arrangements like borrowing used Light utility choppers, still vying ka226 despite the underperformance and geopolitical risks, the same forces are ready to spend crucial capital in procuring Apaches which cost 150mn a pop as compared to prachand which costs around 32.5mn a pop and can easily fill in all the requirements.
That is why I want to see the young indians at forefront of innovation rather slogging off behind computers in service sector what Narayana Murthy is recommending and quality of research paper of china is improving
You want 😂 rascal like young Indian of national herald paper 😂. Pappu ka chutiya 😂
There is no meritocracy even in research. Bihar state govt is raising the reservation to 75 pc and Southern state it is close to 70 pc. You can't aspire research with no merit scientists in government backed organisations which do research primarily.
Typical Indian bureaucracy trying to push files under the table - for the simple reason that post retirement they don’t receive the midnight knock on their door by agencies !
Actually sir, while the lack of modernisation is true but it is also true that real money has started flowing in armed forces only in the last decade. We are seeing very rapid modernisation beginning with Air force heavy and medium lifters followed by MIG repacement. In helicopter we have a versatile platform like Dhruv but at the end resources are finite and in many ways it's a legacy challenge for us.
Indian defense procurement is like preparing bhel. You add a little of everything. Which is why it is very hard to take advantage of economy of scale, and achieve compatibility of hardware and software with our security partners. It makes no sense to purchase defense equipment from Russia, and then go on to partner with US and its allies! US and NATO have a completely different standard that is simply not compatible with Russian counterparts.
Fortunately that is already changing now, with navy ordering Rafale M
Indian Army to change main assault Rifle after 28 years, Navy to change its Air fleet after 25 years, Air force got 1st new aircraft after 20 years, even basic like boot , helmet , bullet proof jackets were imported, Scorpene deals with no progress for 8 years, now completed, Tejas with no or little progress seen flying after 20 years, Indigenous aircraft carrier after decades.........endless list ---all changes came after 2014 ------where there is a will there is a way
Grateful for your lucid explanation on this vital topic. The delays are attributable to many cogs in the system...armed forces being one, the budget..you mentioned, bureaucracy, years of non development of pvt sector Defence production. And now we have half literates as opposition who keep harping against pvt sector involvement in Defence production. Would love to hear a candid CTC on such people who aspire to hold bigger positions of authority without a speck of comprehension of geopolitics, national security et al.
In a high tech manufacturing era if private sector is also given the oppurtunity these delays in making armed forces equipments can be made faster..
Mr Gupta extremely thankful to you for highlighting this thing and talking about it. Dire condition of fleet and every other day there is a crash!
Soldier win battle, logistics win war.
Can they manufacture LUH through a private company using an SPV model? They can actually sign ToT with multiple private companies. That would boost the overall aerospace and defense sector.
Private companies can also do the export orders which will subsidize the domestic market
Adani ji could do it. But George Soros hate Adani.
Why manufacture through private? The problem is not the supply or speed of production but the lack of orders. LUH and Prachand were delivered before!/on time. And private sector is no Brahmastra that can fix the manufacturing. Infact private players like Tata and others have hardly gone beyond assembly and Joint Ventures.
No one is capable of it , private can't be trusted and need big capital expenditures and areospace Engineers
Dear SG, the production capacity is designed based on the demand. If our forces place order HAL can increase the production capacity.
As of now we can't simply increase the production capacity. Production capacity will be in tandem with the order book.
Sharmila Tagore's grand-daughter Sara Ali Khan can be the chief guest for the proposed 60th anniversary. This episode should make us all introspect.
Dear SG, thanks so much for flagging this critical issue up.
The funny & sorry part of this is that every stakeholder is aware of & undertands the necessity & urgency of the situation and still, we are unable to break out from the shackles of indecision, mediocrity & 'chalta hai' attitudes. Being optimistic about our indegenous capabilities is great, as long as we put strict timelines to our optimism...
Plan Bs have to kick in whenever timelines are violated, rather than perpetuating this optimism that someday, we shall have an indegenous top-of-the-line fighting machine rolling out of HAL stables (given time, it may...but we can't compromise the efficiency of our forces and lives of our soldiers and consequently, the most ntegrity of this country, on a tenuous thread of hope forever). Yes...defence of our nation is a costly business. If we keep feeling bad about spending for our security and end up compromising on the same, I'm afraid we'll cross the tipping point soon...god forbid.
Sensitising, reminding and sometimes scandalising to jolt the decision makers regularly is the only way to cure this dangerous complacency in the defence ministry...Keep at it, SG!! Hrt job!!
One of the part you missed out is recruitment and training. It is not just Indian politics, business, cinema are plagued with dynastic nepotism, Indian military, particularly officer corps, pilots are fully nepotism. Accidents happens in all military but the rate and number of incidents in indian aircraft are unbelievable amounts. Real talents are not welcomed but Inept recruitment, nepotism, memorizing some formulas are the priorities I'm indian military pilot recruitment. Any rukie pilot wouldn't fly in to bad mountain weather, yet the so called experienced pilot crying chief of defense staff flew into Ooty mountain and tried to land inside a forest. The nepotism culture is preventing indian advancement in every field.
Indian armed forces have been unimaginative, not on tows and almost callous. Kargil showed high altitude helicopters lacunae. Balakot showed BVR missiles too short in range. This is in spite of superiority of Air to air missiles in Kargil, which was lost. Infantry has body armor and good helmets only now. Soldiers deserve scopes and night vision on rifles, still missing. LCH does not have long range air to air missiles and anti tank missiles. Navy does not have heavy torpedoes and 150 MM big guns. SU 30 does not have AESA radars. Most of the aircraft’s are museum pieces. The story is so bad, we should fire all decision makers in the military and defense ministry. But do we have guts? NO. Do we lack imagination, yes of course. Very sad story indeed. 🥲🥲🥲
To ramp up production. HAL could out source the production of major components like helicopter fuselage production to Tata Advanced Systems Ltd which already makes fuselage for Sirkosky S-92. HAL can then act as system integrator with Final Assembly Line for LUH , LCH and so on.
Again a great episode Shekhar sir...
One of the best episodes by far, this is what real journalism is supposed to be, the one that focuses on national interest!
For now, Logistics can be overcome with land based transports. Attack role choppers needed for the current time. And for areas where land based ones cant go, we need limited orders of LUH.
Mr Gupta can spin ars of 25 mins whose actual content will be 5 mins. he is an excellent story teller
Question is not just how to meet imargency requirements,but how all needs slowly turns into urgent necessity. Why not act in a planned manner, why indigenous products get exclusive requirements, why specific requirements like autopilot not planned to induct in block/phased upgrades?
Very apt and much needed analysis .
These videos should be tagged to PMO and the defence ministry.
We shouldn't be losing our forces by operating such dated systems.
Hope our politicians take note and act on this 😢
This is why we need private companies in development and manufacturing of defence equipments. HAL cannot alone work. Not to mention its highly inefficient too.
Do a cut the clutter on Mahua Moitra's expulsion from Parliament
HAL has a Joint Venture with a Canadian company to train helicopter pilots by simulation including combat. Due to apathy and hostile attitude of the Canadian partners the project is suffering and remains under utilised. A story you can cover to draw attention of powers that matter
I think I know what you're talking about. I used to work right across it
Can't agree more with the comparision to the medical process. Indian armed forces are lagging behind. Even on basics like rifles for infantry. Low number of Rafales for the IAF and even the IN is suffering from low number of vessels and lower number of missles per ship compared to similar navies.
Don't fix it if aren't broken. These equipment have a high capital cost and with such a large army of 1.4 million men and equally large number of retired personnel most of the budget goes in sustaining the opex. With Agniveer and other programs the Defense is trying to reduce its manpower footprint, but it will take time to switch gears for such a large force.
Why doesn't HAL give their design to multiple pvt companies and produce parts and be just an pure integrator instead of full fledged manufacturer
Hi Shekarji, Raj here from a far away planet.
20 years have been noticing, no mainstream rich ultrarich News Channels, newspapers, Mazgines politicians owned TV channels speak about Ex-Gratia settlements for various segments of accidents, yet the politically owned govt bodies or departments holds or keeps ex-gratia settlements funds in a very large numbers at both state and central for various accidental and natural disasters events.
Now, if the total cost of ex-gratia as compensation are kept on hold, for events to happen, then release funds as compensation, where is the upgrade plan and implementation.
Can't escape the evening in Paris reference whenever Shekhar Gupta talks about Cheetah/Chetak helicopters 😂
Hi sir, a great episode. But the videos are not getting added to the playlist. Is this an error?
Sir very Important Topic. Thank you so much sir.
After this video HAL share price increased...do media journalists also get paid by shares like influencers?
Thank You Sir for this vlog 🫡
Hindustan Rotorcrafts Limited. That's the solution. From what I understand, warplanes and rotorcraft have different design requirements and very different supply chains. In an aeronautics company, like Boeing and Airbus, helos are a different division. But in India's sarkari babu-neta culture, helos need to be a completely different company with executive responsibility for full life cycle of rotorcraft.
The US still uses B-52 bombers, first induced in 1952. I think it would be nice if you also compared which other major powers continue to use so called "legacy" systems and in what capacity.
Current B52s have only legacy fuselage, rest of everything is cutting edge. There's no comparison at all.
We couldn't procure engines for our Jaguar fleet but still flying them!
The only legacy in the current B-52 is the name all rest was upgraded.
@@dkq986and who’s fault it that? I don’t recall the cream of the crop engineers going to either HAL or IAF at that ? If “you” can’t attract smart ppl then it’s a “you” problem
You have rightly pointed out. In addition to B52, US airforce is still using very old U2, C5 Galaxy, KC 135 etc aircrafts.
@@pedroramalho121 IAF also routinely upgrades aircrafts. Like the Mig 21s were upgraded. So were the Jaguars, AN 32 etc.
India should issue more student visas to Iranian students. Iranian science and technology is highly underrated, especially in defense.
Are Bhai Iran ko Russia aur China Ka khula support hai . Jaise Israel ko us Ka .
Means: When an accident occurs, the system immediately, releases ex-gratia compensation settlements towards a accident, while the system never improves since 1947-2023, at all states?
Modi is the greatest. He will glorify Bharat with the biggest & best equipment. In fact he already has it all. Will announce it in his next Mann ki Barat.
Not really, he is very incompetent.
Indian planners messed it up delaying Ka 226T deal. Now we should order at least 100 ka 226T at fly away condition and brought some more Chinook while HAL should be ordered for 300 LUH.
Only 1.4 lack cr is year- marked for capital expendirure though more than 5 lacks cr is the defence budget. One of the many criteria is one post one pension.
India might possibly have the most corrupt defense procurement in the world - Artillery stuck with no movement in ATAGS, Arjun Tank development goals kept changing, Tejas procurement happened after a lot of pressure. All this would be fine but our security environment is rapidly deteriorating and in some ways current times looks like prelude to WW3. Looks like there is no way out.
Proper Journalism👏👏🙌
Thank you sir,I gain my knowledge
What’s happening w/ the Apaches ? They are built in my hometown
Hal has made a whole separate factory in tumkur only for helicopters of lch , luh , imrh & dhruv class , it is just that army is not placing orders , & undergoing trials after trails of simple things
There are media reports that Orlan drone sends targets to the Lancet loitering munition drone, there are not many reports on drone and helicopter coordination that I could see.
Please charge me more, but change the Franklin Templeton Ad.
It is not the age, the USAF is flying b-52 and kc-135 for 7 decades and some C-47 for almost 8 decades
We talk about MiG 21 fighters crashing. How many of our helicopters have crashed in Siachen? There don't seem to be issues with the performance of the Cheetah and the Chetak helicopters till date. We don't know how the LUH will perform, but still, efforts are being made to replace the old helicopters with them, because we can't acquire Russian light helicopters due to the war in Ukraine.
Can you please do a similar video for fighter jets.
With the way things are going pakistan will be inducting turkish TFX 5th gen fighter and we will br flying limited rafael in front of it.
Open atleast one military manufacturing complex in every district in India with help of state govts., Central govt, and private companies.
Stopgap orders can be made, to take LUH without autopilot rn and take the autopilot version as it gets ready, similar to tejas mk1 and mk1a
Please elaborate what happened with GE 404 engine, why it is delayed why Korean order is not delay only Indian order is getting delayed
The Armed Forces are also cunning in the Sense that They order Very Little especially from Private Corps and ask them with Infinite extras At the same Time keeping Costs low(Ex: Kalyani M4, Tata Kestrel, Mahindra ASLV, etc) nothing of such ever Happens, Coz You have to Order in A Huge Bulk to keep costs low and Do not use a Dozen different National Systems
The golden standard/ day will be when HAL gets competition from a private player. That will be a big thing. The 10 years period will go down to 3.
Make in India is the best option. If we have blue prints and progress while series production always is the best way to improve.
Maruti cars is the best example. There are few companies around the world that have the depth on engineering skills HAL has. It keeps the Air Force flying.
This current government has its priorities correct and in the years to come Indian defence production will be a strength and force multiplier.
In many cases it was vested interests that have derailed and curtailed growth of the Defence manufacturing.
PM Modi must be hailed as the leader that cut through the noise and motored make in india for defence.
These are not the best in class platforms but they are the best we can do. The 1st Dhruv helicopter and the ones rolling out now there is a huge improvement and difference in the makeup.
You will have a supply of around 130 per annum helicopters in India in the coming years and 30 LCA per annum.
600 LCA will overwhelm any force which I feel we will need to get by that time you will have upgrades.
Indian doctrine has always been small agile on LCA has that and the Prachand and Dhruv match up to all in its class.
Look out for the heavy lift helicopters after LUH is in production.
The new stealth ones are coming too.
Salute the leadership to change things and the mind sets.
It takes time to develop the procurement process, operational up gradation will take time. This question must be asked to governments before 2014. There is no magic wand to upgrade the trio forces in one go and the paramilitary forces too. Also the police reforms still need to be implemented, lot of rework needs to be done. I hope the India brigade is listening to these issues.
So, ex-gratia as accident compensation funds of public services are not to develop the flaws, in a constant basis,as good as politicians, IAS, IPS, party members use their automobile, & smart phones, consumer durables, digital gizmos, which has been upgraded by the manufacturer in a constant basis, but Govt owned transportation services or infrastructures does not gets an upgrade, since 20+ years, rather to compensate?
Does this make any sense since 76 BOC years?
Why can't they make more factories?
Mr Gupta left out a key reason behind lack of modernisation of defence forces which is long duration of lack of political Intent and high corruption. Lack of resources is not the main problem.
9:47 Sekarji thanks for keeping tab on moniting the defence capabilities and their important projects. Without this we cannot be independent in the world political scenario and we will be overrun
Very good episode. Indian government should probably consider getting the LUH manufactured outside India. Good old subcontracting. These are logistics helicopters. No big defence secrets are going to be revealed.
How unsmart is HAL, that they didn't think of an auto-pilot?
2:39 I laughed way too hard at this!
Since independence till now the indian military and politicians have no strategy to contaion the ongoing threat from its twin terror china and pakistan.
Post independent indian military leadership are confused lot and have no out box ideas to tackle the enemies.
When asked by media why there are many heavily armed china army assembled near indian border, the ex army chief Navarane said he dont know.
Althought indians served in the colonial british army for more than 200 years, all the officers ranks are white and they plan the war tactics.
Post independence, indian army leadership are confused and did not have clear strategy to tackle the enemis. They seem to be comfortable in their own world and out of touch with latest war techniques.
Im not able to find anything on luya group based in kanpur for joint venture of drones
We need to give each branch of the armed forces one-time $100 billion modernisation fund to be used only for strategic acquisitions. This should be seperate from the normal budget to bring our equipment to a decent standard.
We cant make it ourselves and we have placed banned them to import. 😏
@thezoldics7648Kabhi Kabhi apne logon ki galti maan Leni chahiye.
Is this Auto pilot requirement not told earlier?
Govt should employ people who are not getting govt jobs, in such defence manufacturing and expand capacity.
Aérospatiale Alouette III is good helicopter in fact c130 is older than it. For SAR cheetah or cheetal are use which has no equivalent in the world
with all due respect Shekhar saab please also see that if indian helicopter is to be purchased by our armed forces then please include monopoly factor of HAL.Why private sector has not entered into this area of manufacturing ,please make a video and enlighten us saab. I think that our defence manucturing industry primarily being PSUs never thought of having VERTICALS in this area?In olden days if you wanted to buy a car then its either Premier padmini or Ambasador.What happened to them when LPG policy was brought in?
This is high time that the Govt.Catalyses the formation of INDIAN MILITARY COMPLEX.
Its all engineering machines.Are govt.Jobs attracting the Best of our Engineers?I don't think so.Nowhere in the world is the Govt. anywhere near to pay packages offered by private sector.Hence our Govt.should act as a catalyst to Indian Military Complex.Time has come for it.Right now what is happening is outsourcing the manufacturing.That's all.
Military Technology Verticals.We need to grow and finially have our own Design Table of World Standard.Thank you the wonderfull videos You make Shekhar saab.
Hey SG,
Great topic and excellent explanation. Feels like you know our armed forces through and through.
Also pertinent topic related to forces is subject of “Short Service Commission” Officers especially of Army, we don’t have proper exit procedures for these officers after their initial terms of engagement, they are not provided with pension or NPS contribution and transparency in awarding PC is non existent. We have had great officers from this entry and they are passionate about their jobs, it’s required to be highlighted. In last four years or so many officers are being released by Army.
You have lot of contacts with army top brass, please take into account views of junior officers. - Harish
Now IAS, Jury advocates have ignored this system rather to improve the system by allocating funds to collages to MSMEs, while political parties have a Gala time, with party workers, media coverages creating a scene of compensation.
Why this situation? Why our government didn't act timely? In next videos please throw some light on this.
Is it acceptable to present these details that are in the realm of defence of the country?
This shows that either the machines are goid at better price. The other thought can be we didn't change when we wanted to change.
In H’Bad a DRDO factory has been in operation for the last 40 yrs. This factory was designed by young IIT grads when there were only 5 IITs. This factory produces special high temperature alloys needed to build Jet and Rocket engines. But the Jet Engines which were to use these materials have been a FAILURE. The Engines ( like the Kaveri for the LCA Tejas ) designed by another section of DRDO ( it’s GTRE ) Cabot produce the designed thrust so India has to import GE Engines from the US to power the Tejas ( which in itself is crippled by poor aerodynamic design, consequently uncompetitive to the PAFs 40 yr old F - 16s ). The root cause of India’s perpetual problems in technology, especially Defense is in the poor quality of manpower, both at Delhi Ministries in the North and the R&D plus production units clustered in the South and staffed mostly by third rate graduates from Degree Mills in the South. This North - South Axis of Incompetence & Greed that has taken over India is what has held it back since Independence and made it fall so far behind China in just 30 years ( from near parity in 1990 to GDP now only one fifth ! ). The Delhi - Bengaluru Axis of incompetence must be replaced by the best trained at new focused interdisciplinary Defense oriented programs at the 5 original IITs plus IISc. They should have a broad scope starting from Strategy & Planning to testing of finished products
Why doesn't HAL outsource products
NDA has also been like UPA they have no ideas for the IAF no fighter planes no drones no helicopters purchased
In terms of performance of defence production items, we probably the worst ! 2 Tejas a month ? 😮
It's not a Hero splendor that you can manufacture 2 per minute.
Dhruv and Rudra have few technical limitation, but right now they has to do heavy lifting, till prachand acquisition is complete
Why cannot HAL let the logistics helicopter get produced on license basis by Private Enterprises!
If the had that much order HAL should involve PPP model or licence manufacturing by tata Mahindra l&t
Hal is biggest importer aircraft parts and does a screwdriver job... engines, flight control system, etc etc.. our defence procurement is man-made beautiful mess.. create artificial supply/production crunch and bottleneck.. create technical requirements extremely high.. don't open the pvt sector in defence production.. create complex and delayed purchase process..then create urgent ..emergency war requirements.. vola order/import at double the price... perfect recipe for making some .. unfortunately we can't design manufacture a world class decent assault rifle or handgun pistol and here we are talking about helicopters, drones..aircraft. No country in this world has become a military power by importing equipment... Absolutely not one country.
manufacture of aircraft's and helicopter's are in different factories. No reason why they cannot deliver both. The problem is mainly funding related and the armed forces dithering as they prefer foreign maal.
On the contrary sir, armed forces prefer tried and tested reliable “maal”, soldier doesn’t differentiate between Indian and foreign equipment he just wants a fail safe equipment. We accepted INSAS (Relatively unreliable rifle system) and suffered, that makes experience of acquiring Indian systems troublesome. Commanders want to win and not foster Indian manufacturers.
@@harishdeshpande1159 I thought the main issue with INSAS was with the caliber. The 5.56 has lower kinetic energy than the heavier 7.62 and so the 5.56 had a shorter effective range. This was not an issue with the INSAS as such but rather of the requirements to switch to 7.62 just based on the brochure based design
@@TheLargeoldshoe on the contrary, 7.62 has shorter effective range for equivalent ammunition, 7.62 is more destructive as compared to 5.56 which is designed to damage enemy out of battlefield and not kill. INSAS, although very accurate, had major issues related to reliability and required extensive maintenance. Reliability issues led to driving away of INSAS otherwise it was possible to change INSAS caliber to 7.62. INSAS is a reverse engineered AK with three round burst mechanism stuck on it.
@@harishdeshpande1159 much of the issues you point to regarding misfiring as well as unreliability of INSAS is 90% due to the shitty bullets coming out of the ordinance factories.
Other issues such as polymer breakage etc could be easily handled by going back to a metal design with a slit for viewing bullets.
@@TheLargeoldshoe True! But Same logistical channels are used to manufacture 7.62 ammunition which prove to be more reliable in operations. These issues were addressed in 1B1 iteration, but usage of sheet metal and unreliable three round burst mechanism spoiled party. We have to accept that the system was faulty, and forces can’t have half baked small arms.
In SG’s cricket analogy player like Shreyas Iyer maybe a good batter but if he is getting out cheaply over and over again, he should be dropped.
Good analysis. But it is not explained why we are at state. HAL with all due respect still operates as a state organisation. This culture needs to change. They need to innovate. As per as defence procurement goes, it’s sticky as you said money is finite, and due to decades of mismanagement and improper planning we lack equipment to support the skills of our defenders. I think we need to accept the current situation, continue to focus and report on the shortcomings, and highlight the achievements.
HAL needs to invest on R&D, work closely with the thousands of engineering colleges and make its products of better quality and export products and become profitable instead of being dependent on government funds. They can go for JVs with private organisations etc. The mindset is still not there. Governments will come and go. Some will focus on defence tech some won’t..
Your argument would only make sense at a chai tapri. In the world of knowledgeable citizens, it's a known fact that HAL is a lead integrator and not the manufacturer, i.e, private companies manufactures sub systems and components, no private company came forward for a JV when tenders were floated and there is an issue with the procurement process of Indian Army where they strike the absolute worst financial deal.
Defense industry has quite picked pace in recent years, yes these are glitches to be overcome. again these glitches has been self created.
I believe that India should not buy from US as they can stop repairs or put conditions based on national or international politics.
Privatize with strict regulations. There is no other solution.
Instead of wasting money on vanity projects, the central government could have eased the pressure on the armed forces, or have expanded the health-care and educational facilities available to poorer citizens.
Outsource production to Adani , TATA or Reliance Defense. Problem solved. If they earn more , they will pay more via electoral bonds .
Well as the saying goes,,, incompetence is just mask for corruption.
The Mi-4 wasn't anything unique in design, many western designs of those times shared the same configuration.