What's AMCA that CCS just cleared & how it can bridge the 5th-gen fighter gap with China & Pakistan
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- Опубліковано 13 бер 2024
- Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) gives go-ahead to development of indigenous fifth-generation stealth fighter. In episode 1415 of #CutTheClutter, Editor-in-Chief Shekhar Gupta and Defence Editor Snehesh Alex Philip discuss what the AMCA project entails and how it will give India an edge over China and Pakistan.
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Chapters:
01:24 : Cabinet Committee on Security gives clearance for AMCA, India's 5th gen fighter program
02:03 : Induction of AMCA in India Airforce to start by mid-2030s
04:17 : China to give J-31, a scaled down version of 5th gen fighter, to Pakistan
12:40 : 5th gen aircraft to have stealth, better weapon system and integrated tech
14:23 : Only US, Russia, & China have developed 5th gen advanced jets
15:25 : First lot of AMCA aircraft to be powered by new GE F414 engines
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Shekhar Ji is the Version of F16 by Pakistan is Better Syncronized than Any Indian Fighter Jets Except Rafale
Mr Gupta,You showed Nomura's Prediction of 5.5% growth for India in 2023,Whereas As India's Growth Rate for 2023-24 is again about to Beat all expections by nearing 8% at a Time of Global Uncertainty,where India's Predictions were also very low,But India beat them All
@@ranjitpal9937Indian Sukhois Are More Powerful than Paxtan F-16 Simply Becoz all Those Sukhois were Acquired in last 20 years and Equipped with New Digital Lethal Tech and Now The IAF has Ordered $ 8 Billion Dollar+ Upgrade for Sukhois to make it more Lethal ,Where as The paxtanis have acquired all those F-16 in 80s and 90s and Don't have any Advanced Digital Tech of 21st Century except for Half-dozen and they don't have any money to upgrade, That's why they are going for Cheaper Chinese Alternatives which have No history of Combat experience or any Acknowledgement by Experts that they are Good Outside of China or Paxtan and only utterly Poor and Failed countries are buying Becoz of Financial Burden and they can't even Afford Russian jets and Anyways I'm happy that India is Either buying highly Advanced Western Tech with ToT and Making In India itself
Mr Gupta,You showed Nomura's Prediction of 5.5% growth for India in 2023,Whereas As India's Growth Rate for 2023-24 is again about to Beat all expections by Crossing 7% at a Time of Global Uncertainty,where India's Predictions were also very low,But India beat them All
It should be Privatized so that it doesn't Take 40 or even 20 years for ut to be Fully Opertationalized, Although HAL has Been Performing Incredibly Well Ubder Modi Govt especially since 2018 listing on Exchange,But Many Still don't Trust any PSU and RIGHTLY SO
Both of these distinguished gentleman needs to let each other speak and not talk over the other.
Ok Binod 😆
Bro seriously why he have mentioned india arsenal first then to answer the question he was asked.
True
Distinguished gentleman? Who?
SG has a child like enthusiasm in this aircraft topic 😊
This aircraft is still at computer animation stage
Really want to see a prototype.
Not before 2027-28
For that you need money. It has only been cleared now. Money will follow within months hopefully.
@@AnilYadav-nt9mfmetal cutting has already started for it.
20:07 editor smartly put both the logos as eagles glaring each other
13:15 picture of f35 is displayed instead of f22
After external affairs minister S. Jaishankar said that India cannot pick a fight with China because the latter has a bigger economy, military veterans have accused the Narendra Modi government of having a “defeatist attitude” and “bowing down to a bully”.
@@mg.f.9023No reason for India 🇮🇳 to seek conflict with its much more powerful neighbor!
@@mg.f.9023lol wth he never said that 🤣🤣 but ya you are free to misinterpret it 😂😂
@@GrandDad_001He did and what he said is true.
@@habibicat9772 enjoy your delusions 😂👍
Can you guys stop talking over each other please ? It is difficult to understand when that happens
Ok uncle 😕
@@ajaxjaiswal3442Ok Pappu😂
Great Discussion! 💯
Good Q & A. Better to have more such programs than Cut the Clutter
Even Turkey already has a 5th generation aircraft prototype already flying 😢. Also something we need to ask in the scenario of a protracted war how easily can someone replace a 5th generation fighter since they are so expensive and complicated.
Where's Turkey's fighter that may not be even a 5th gen fighter hardly 4 or 4.5gen
Our Air force lags behind PAF and that is a shame..we are still flying Migs and mirage and that shows our standard...we don't have indigenous good drone program like iran or turkey.. don't know what aatmanirbhr bharat is doing
We manufacture ANDHBHAKTS..
Lag behind paf? What u smokin dude😂.. and still its now way better than cong time.. atleast we r doing something now. And it will take another decade to catchup..
@@mg.f.9023so u want to manufacture terrorists like pak?
Tum log news nahi dekhte ho kya kitne sare drones is saal aye hai indigenous wo bhi.
@@HimanshuMahajan-zn3nq wtf man, in last 10 years we bought 36 rafales, do you think that is enough
Without indegenous jet engine...we are totally dependable on other...
Sadly no but we haven't given up developing indigenous kaveri engine.
Just because India develops and engine does not mean much. Russia has been developing engines, but no major commercial airlines will use Russian engine. Engine reliability and engine lifespan of American engines are best in the world. The next best is European.
@ppen valid point
Great episode! 👍
Very informative . Thank you
Excellent choice to have Snehesh here SG, excellent discussion too. Hope AMCA is on time for India !
Snehesh is dumber than shekhar!
I've noticed that Shekhar is always keen on cricket & Defence!! Well done The Print..very well done Mr Gupta.❤
Great analysis.
More of a stupid analysis ! Two noobs talking about something they know nothing about
Thanks!
Abhinandan chacha se poocho chai kaisi thi :P
93k porky kutto se puch jab pant utri thi kaisa laga😂😂
Interesting... Thanks
Mr Gupta,You showed Nomura's Prediction of 5.5% growth for India in 2023,Whereas As India's Growth Rate for 2023-24 is again about to Beat all expections by nearing 8% at a Time of Global Uncertainty,where India's Predictions were also very low,But India beat them All
Mr Noone & others like you. No need to bark same comment here n there. Everyone wants India to grow at it's fullest. Factors of dynamic topics change, evolve, do does the commentary on that issue. When India is 5th wicket down on 20th over in a match, the commentator says, "India is in trouble now", but do they wish ill? So, stop pretending that you are the only deshbhakt, fighting in comment section, for India's cause.
Its print..what do you expect?
Thanks for an informative conversation
5th generation aircrafts were developed in early 2000s. We are so far behind. By the time we develop 5th gen the world would have moved on to 6th gen. We need to infuse a lot of money and research resources to leapfrog to 6th gen. Of course I understand we cannot go to 6th gen without having experience with 5th gen but we need to be thinking ahead. I hope they are, I can't be the only one thinking this way
I dont thing we can ''leapfrog'' into anything cutting edge.
One has to crawl before they can walk!
Lol which world are you talking about?? There are 195 countries and most of them don't even have a 4th gen fighter aircraft 😂😂
We arent competing with the last 5, but with top 5. @@GrandDad_001
US has a pool of almost infinite pool of money , and most talented people , if they see any capable person , US will poach them . As for China , their spy network does the heavy lifting , by taking critical tech , which they don't have to develop on their own . India doesn't have both , so we take our time .
Shekhar Ji I haven’t received that email
Kindly, please share the link
Thank you 🙏
We are really late here. We needed this yesterday. We should look at 6th Gen features and make this 5.5 atleast. Thank you for the discussion
You need the prerequisite tech to hop on to 6th gen or join other countries 6th gen program. Us won't invite us and we have seen what happened with the 5th gen co-dev project with Russia. So we started from 4th gen lca tejas, now we will move towards 4.5th gen lca tejas mk 2, to 4.5th or 5th gen amca to 5th gen AMCA mk 2.
Better late than never
Goood questions Mr Shekar as usual . Pls do some more on forces readiness . Ie is super Sukhoi good enough , what’s happening in arms artillery buildup etc
The government needs to set a trend on fast track defense procurement stategy.
Instead of snacks please distribute water in your session in Bengaluru😂😂😂
Atleast theoretically PAF has again outranged us since 2023 with induction of J10CE with comes with PL 15 (200km claimed ranges Vs Rafale's Meteor (150 km). In next 4-5 years they will have J31 and then Turkish Kaan in next 10 yrs. India needs to have stop gap arrangement and technological superiority/edge (F 35 limited numbers) in next 5-7 until years as AMCA induction starts in 10-12 years.
It is not only building deterrence but also building industry and infrastructure. India can keep its defence procurement active from its friends US and France and parallely build its own industry.
Picture shown is not of an F22!
Excellent coverage, also Snehesh Philip is as cute as teddy bear. :)
Only they know what topic they are discussing.
Scale foen version is also not easy to produce. SG please understand that even something in scale having exactly same geometry with 10% reduction in the dimensions will not fly.
J31 is a 5th gen fighter, the US and west recognise it as a 5th gen fighter only indians will say otherwise also pak will get Kaan fighter too PAF will operating 2 5th gen platforms
Lol.
Yes 5th gen with 4th gen engine
If J31 is 5th gen then u don't need kaan.. Jst induct J31 in greater no. for better logistics 🥱🥱
@@HimanshuMahajan-zn3nq Stealth is not dependent on engine.
If Pakistani have even one Good Aircraft better than us Indians then we know which jugular our Feet should be focussed on !!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Some typography error . It is supposed to be
Astra ,not Asra
So IAF doesn't like anything scaled down but would go for refurbished Mig-29s ?
Iaf and army really do not compromise a little
And thats a really problem
So what?... Of course every aircraft platform has issues...but Mig29 is still best high altitude multirole aircraft you can get for money.
His whole premise is based on the f20 tigershark episode but when you see other equipment with our forces those are indeed scaled down.
IAF does not decide anything. It is Indian government that takes the decisions for IAF.
@@surajraika9245do not compromise?
They brought Tejus, which they don't want to operate. Bcz of its capabilities.
Very Nice 👍🏻
I haven't received mail for the Bangalore event. Please share a mail.
By the time 5th generation aircraft comes to fruition in Bharat, wars could have started & ended.
J31 is now J35 after massive improvements. It has been change to on Chinese carriers. An export version of J35 may be dumbed down to Gen 4.5++ version instead of an actual Gen 5
j35 rcs 0.01
J31 is more of a airforce version of j35
@@SPEARHEADGLOBAL To my knowledge, J31 is an old prototype number before the major update. It is now officially called by PLAAF as J35 and will be similar to F35 as it will have a carrier version and a non-carrier version.
13:20 it seems that the same aircraft has been flashed from two different angles, once as F22 and once as the F35. Far better is expected from CTC 😓
India signed deals with both GE and Safran last year for engines.. Can one elucidate on it? Which engine belongs to which aircraft?
GE FOR LCA mk1a and mk2 is confirmed.
Also starting amca will have ge engines.
How much of air superiority 10 years from now be based on human piloted aircraft versus drones and other UAV
Tiger shark is now parked in the Dayton Ohio airforce museum with original US livery black and red. They have the real cockpit and one can climb in it. I have the photos. Will share with The Print
Yeah that's a F35 at 13:19 not F22. Disappointing job graphics team!
Its 'Astra' missile not Asra. When will the media learn to report responsibly?
Mistakes happen
Why no CTC on Electoral Bond issue?
From past experiences I think IAF will ask for features of a stealth fighter with bomb load of a b-52 bomber coupled with speed of a mig-31 while having music system from Bose. Expect prototype to be ready by 2047
Heavy expections of import lobby
So odc ,the other guy was on mobile
Shekhar ji, please use better mics if possible ❤
Hi very interesting discussion…can it be said that all 5th gen fighters are twin engine aircraft?
F-35🤷🏾♂️
We should focus on next gen warfares . Laser systems, electronic warfare , Jamming system etc
Please share an incident of engine issue with J-10C of the IAF?
Latest j 35 pic shows a different story the pic they showed was from early testing it has come a long way since than a truly 5 gen aircraft
Please share the email, i haven't received it
The f-22 picture is wrong
70% things they are talking about is wrong
Thank you sir in. Adi
Please correct the image shown for F-22
The reality is that the best China has come up is advanced 4th generation fighter. Tejas are 3.5 generation fighters.
The good thing is that India is trying, but it should not be done at the cost of Indian defence.
J-20 is 5th gen
What is update about MRFA?
After elections 😂 don't know which elections
Modi's obsession with this Atmnirbhar bullshit would cost us big time.. This moron just refuses to buy anything from abroad and deals take forever.. Even it is an emergency procurement to fullfil immediate capability gap.. Why can't we even buy atleast like 50 more Rafaels to atleast jump up our numbers is absolutely bonkers to me..
@@im-cf3fi😂
AMCA is very interesting & needed. While stating the obvious you did not touch the point of CAN AN INDIAN PRIVATE FIRM MAKE A FIGHTER AIRCRAFT SOON? That will be a game changer. INDIA can be a big player if this happens. Of course, HAL needs competition.
Hi Shekar sir, I would like to attend the talk with Nikhil Kamath .. if that’s possible still as I am based out of Bangalore ..
Y'all have neglected to mention the first n original Stealth fighter n precursor of all 5th generation combat aircraft the F 117 Nighthawk.
Inducted into the USAF way back in 1983 n retired by 2008/10. Also,the B2 bomber soon to be upgraded by the B21.
F117 was not a stealth fighter. It is a bomber.
If you are splitting hairs then ok. Let's say first Stealth combat aircraft in regular use n by that position must be included in any discussion of this
topic.
Anyways in the modern era, convention has it that all combat aircraft have a dual or even multirole capability, including the 5th generation ones covered in the article n thus the classic nomenclature of separation viz fighter, bomber, interceptor etc is no more relevant.
Why is Astra not pitched in ? Atleast in discussions ? Is it not comparable to meteor ? Both are bvrm right?
Edit: my comment was impulsive. Now as I watch further I'm happy it's mentioned 😊
Great unbiased analysis. I enjoyed listening to both of you. In the end you mentioned how IAF does not lag behind PAF in terms of missile range anymore. PAF has procured PL-15 missiles which have a longer range than meteor. The meteor is integrated only with Rafale’s which are 36 I believe? PAF has J-10C which carries PL-15 but it has also integrated PL-15 with JF-17 Block III. Obviously missile itself is nothing and needs to supported by avionics. JF 17 Block III has AESA radar and HUD which supports PL-15 use in combat effectively. The difference is that PAF bought foreign technology and adjusted it into indigenous equipment. IAF has a lot of catching up to do.
10 year neglect from 04 to 14 is not easy to overcome.
World is fielding 5th gen already and we are here now only approving the project. We can't even yet manufacture a jet engine. Leave alone one for 5th gen.
Manufacturing a jet engine isnt a joke, only europeans ,russians and americans have been able to do it. It takes 30-40 years of knowledge to develop it
Electoral bond list is public now… please ctc on that
AMCA is a huge disappointment for everyone who's been watching this space, the Turkish and even the Koreans got their planes ready even after starting later and not to talk about china having already developed more than one 5th gen aircraft. Absolute disappointment 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻
AMCA is not even developed and In case of Kaan Turkey has 89% inflation
🤡 .. turkey and korea got their plane ready🤡.
Turkey flew prototype without radar, ew suit..how can you call it 5th gen.. without all imp accessories which makes it 5th gen.. and about korean plane..its 4.5gen. Thanx to america
American company Lockheed Martin helped Korea develop the 4.5 gen aircraft. The Koreans then developed a 5th gen lookalike called KF-21 which will eventually through Korean R&D be developed into a 5th gen. The Turks because of NATO links get priviledged access to tech but it's their first fighter aircraft so it may not match the F-35 or even Chinese 5th gens as they have so much more investment in the area and expertise.
They run on American engines.
@@MrRichardlobo not an excuse, AMCA will also be running on foreign engine
The IAF is actually late in the 5th gen race with even Turkey and South Korea developing them at a faster rate. Hopefully things go as planned and new engine can be reached. PM should take as matter of National Security like ISRO and ballistic missile development of DRDO otherwise deadlines will be missed.
Not only we need fighter aircraft for airforce but also for our navy.
prototype is easy, but producing in mass is extremely difficult, i think 2050 we will get 5 gen jet
are you a scientist?? or you are just barking here?
Lol cope don't get salty this is new India
@@vegetaurs2498 writing new India doesn't mean shyt if you have nothing to show for it
Annoying to see both Shekar Gupta and Snehesh use their phones during the interview. If they claim their talking points are on the device, they should do something else. It’s disrespectful to each other and oddly disrespectful to the viewers.
From last 10 years i am reading this news that we are developing AMCA, we were lagging in terms of air power govt must include private player along with DRDO to speed up such projects
Do they have money to buy all those or its on loan...?
Why wont china just give them
Even SG sir realises the need for Modi to get stuff done through Indian bureaucracy.
Only 36 rafales in 10 years, is that enough
It’s not - that was SGs argument. He said under Modi govt for 10 years - bureaucratic red tape should have been eliminated and it wasn’t, which is a problem.
But the fact that SG said “in Modi’s rule - this is not acceptable” means he expects speed from Modi that he would not expect from any one else.
According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), 21% of the share of global VC investment in 2020 (most recent compilation) went into AI, an estimated $75 billion.
The United States and China attracted more than 80% of that global total - Who says there’s no AI war going on? - followed by the EU at 4% (mostly Germany and France), and then the UK and Israel at 3% each.
just like tejas....it will take about 40-50 years and 100 proto types
If the product coming out of the AMCA Project is expected in the mid 2030s, the question I have is - given that the prevailing opinion of experts on this subject is that the manned aircraft are a thing of the past and that future is with pilotless aircraft with AI plus remote control, wouldn't it make sense if the focus was placed in developing technology in that direction. Most of this weaponry gets obsolete before it leaves the factory. I agree that it is not an easy decision.
6th gen is based on 5th gen.. without 5th how can you directly develop 6th
you forgot about PL-15
Only if wars were fought in computer simulation stages 😂😂
Hope we have at least 2 Amka in service in 20 years. 😊
Comrade SG (beyond visual range ?) welcome
Lol salaam😂😂
SG, if you are really unbiased think in last year of UPA 2, Antony said i don't have money for any procurement....
Shekarji, Iet me please share a reality from engineering circles; "Technology Transfer is a myth!". It is a just a glorified way to import and assemble the black boxes but we still don't have any idea to recreate or repair the technology. For instance, we have TOT of Su-30 aircraft, we still have to import its components and repair them abroad!
😂😂😂😂.
ndia getting ready for two front war with China and Pakistan
While
1. Pakistan readies Ground work for induction of J31.
2. Pak Turk 5th Gen KAAN project took its first flight.
3. Project Azm (Under development)
4. PF-X (Under development)
5. Inducting and upgrading JF17s
6. Retired all its 3rd gen fighters.
China:
1. Produced 210~250+ (as of 2023) 5th gen J20 stealth air superiority
2. About to induct J35 stealth air superiority
3. Produced 602+ J10 multi role
4. Produced 470+ J-11 air superiority
5. Produced 85+ J15 multi role
6. Produced 245+ J16 strike fighter
7. Testing H20 stealth bombers.
India:
1. Tejas Mk1 FAILED
2. Tejas Mk 1A FAILED
3. Tejas MK2 DELAYED till 2027
4. TEDBF DELAYED.
5. AMCA DELAYED till 2034
Fighter jets according to date of introduction.
Indian Air Force:
Mig21..... 1959....65 years old
Mig 29.... 1983....41 years old
Jaguar.... 1973.....51 years old
Mirage 2K. 1984..40 years old
Su30mki....2002...22 years old
Rafale........2001...23 years old
Tejas.........2015.....9 years old
Meanwhile in last 20 years the number of jet crashed by Indian air force are more than they have inducted into their fleet.
Snehesh Alex Philips and DK Singh look very similar. Whats the deal !?
SEKHAR SIR & SNEHESH SIRS , INDIA NEEDS TO BE WORRIED ABOUT " J-10S " NOT ABOUT " J-20S " OR " J-31S " BECAUSE IF YOU MINUTELY SEE & COMPARE THE TWO DESIGNS OF " J-10S WITH J-20S " & " J-10S WITH J-31S " YOU WILL SEE IN J-10 THE SIZE OF THE TWO CANARDS IS VERY SMALL COMPAIRING TO J-20S & THE PITOT-STATIC TUBE IS ALMOST INVISIBLE ( THE LENGTH OF THE PITOT-STATIC-TUBE IS VERY SMALL ).
Why do you worry more about j-10 than j-20
We need to have expert analysis from a experinced defence industry specialist rather than so call media reporters….also china has already current iteration of 200 5th generation fighters …by the time AMCA comes 10-15 years later they would be on next to next 5th gen or even 6th gen version with even more numbers of such fighters….
It should be Privatized so that it doesn't Take 40 or even 20 years for it to be Fully Opertationalized, Although HAL has Been Performing Incredibly Well Ubder Modi Govt especially since 2018 listing on Exchange,But Many Still don't Trust any PSU and RIGHTLY SO
Bro. 5th gen aircraft are fully networked with other assets as well as space assets. Does f35 have supercruise? No!
Actually, the F-35 can supercruise, but it is recommended that the pilot only use it for 3 minutes or less. The net result is that people say that the F-35 cannot super cruise for practical purposes. The reason is that F-35 radar absorbent coatings are baked into its skin, and if this option is used frequently, then there is deterioration of its stealth properties. Even the use of an afterburner is not allowed for more than 3 minutes. This does not limit the F-35 because traditional planes, when loaded with weapons, cannot even hit a top speed of 1 Mach. The F-35, loaded with weapons in the internal bay, will always be a faster plane than any 4th generation plane loaded with its weapons. Finally, the F-35 is not an air superiority fighter, so America will never use the F-35 as its tip of the spear.
Will that picture fight war?
Russian SU-57 fights Ukraine war in pictures only. In reality, it never crosses battle lines because it will be shot down.
If Congress and it's alliance comes to power will this project get funding and after their freebies distribution and loans taken to make Rahul PM
J-31 or the Chinese Navy's J-35 is absolutely a 5th generation stealthy fighter.
Stealth shaping makes up 90% of stealth efficacy. The J-35 looks very similar to F-35.
So if you want to claim J-35 is not stealthy, then by default you are also claiming the F-35 is not stealthy.
🥴🤦
Should have involved private sector in this. HAL has a poor track record of delivering, Tejas took 20 + years to finally deliver
Should've just partnered with US or Japan or Israel or France. Ek Tejas banane me to 50 years lag gya. Aur usko dusra desh choro, apne Air Force hi lena nahi chahta. AMCA ka shakal to is janam me dekh nahi paunga.
India AMCA. fighter looks like China J35 and China J35willbe massive production now, and will be produced 800 units in next ten years.
I sincerely think India should just buy 5th Gen fighter jets, and focus entirely on next-gen aircraft and weapon systems. We are already too late in the game, and by the time we finally build our 5th jet - the world will have moved on to 6th Gen jets... We need to break away from this perpetual catch-up game we are playing!
Your name😂😂😂
Anyway dont worry AMCA has been conceptualised in such a way that it has options for upgradability whuch is very rare in aircraft design.
@@akshatbhardwaj2165 given past record of these govt. agencies... I would take their words with a big jar of salt 🙄. If it was private company driving things, then it'll be a different story.
I am sure Indian think tanks have already thought about this,
Maybe DRDO and government know something that we don't 👀
You need to give out more information on what is stealth and connect this feature with the bands that radars use to detect aircraft. Is a stealth aircraft completely invisible for radars in all bands? An undispted fact that India is lagging by a mile.