Should I have children? - CrowdScience, BBC World Service
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- Опубліковано 27 лис 2021
- "To be or not to be" was never your decision. No one alive today is an “exister” by consent - your parents made that call for you. But who can blame them?
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Animals are hardwired with strong impulses towards their procreative goals, and we humans, by and large, are no different. But for some conscientious people alive today, this most fundamental of biological impulses is butting up against a rational pessimism about the future...
With apocalyptic scenes of natural disasters, rising sea levels and global pandemics causing existential dread and actual suffering, it's understandable that CrowdScience listener Philine Hoven from Austria wrote to us asking for help her make sense of what she sees as the most difficult question she faces - should she have children?
In this episode, presenter Geoff Marsh helps Philine to predict what kind of a world her hypothetical child might inhabit, and explores the impact their existence, or indeed non-existence might have on society and the planet. Plus, we'll explore what ‘antinatalism’- a philosophical stance which argues against procreation, can tell us about the moral landscape of the unborn. With Ms Caroline Hickman, Professor Mike Berners-Lee, Professor Noriko Tsuya and Professor David Benatar.
Download CrowdScience here: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04d...
Presented and produced by Geoff Marsh for BBC World Service
Thumbnail credit: Getty Images
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The question shouldn’t be “do I want to have children” it should be “if my children had a choice, would they chose to be born?”
Many probably would (despite facing difficulties), and that certainly matters. Although, I would say that the concept of choice doesn't quite seem applicable in a situation where a person doesn't have interests. However, creating a bad life can be immoral, just as the creation of a good one would be ethical.
@@cosmiclifeist4875 Define a good life
@@tungtvann1 it's as hard to define as a "bad life". Some would say that a particular amount of material comforts make a life good, but I would not say that a person who is rich has no right to be depressed. Value is inherently subjective, so a "good" life can be found even in terrible conditions, something I've experienced a lot due to the fact that I come from a "third world" country. Simply engaging in one's day-to-day activities allows many people to sustain themselves, though that's obviously not the case for many people, who instead focus on other sources of joy, such as meaningful relationships, art, and the pursuit of knowledge.
How can an unborn child know that? Some people don't know the answer all their life, and even if they answer no, they survive until old age.
@@Gaze73 ua-cam.com/video/dGIhE7a1WGw/v-deo.html
I’ve always wanted to be a mother but there are so many children out there that need a good home so I’m considering adoption when I’m much older, financially stable and have the time to give a child.
Adoption is not the same as having your own bio child though. It is not the same experience, no matter what fantasists claim.
Do not wait. This is nonsense. Jus because people FEEL like this does not make it justified scientifically or logically.
@@badgerjelly101 what doesn’t make sense to me is when people have a bunch of children that they cannot afford and spend most of their time at work anyways.
@@quinncreel6091 There is no logic behind your statement. It obviously coming from emotional place.
@@faaaduma6876 No logic? That's rich! An adopted child wasn't birthed by the people who look after them; this means they have nothing in common with their so-called "parents", or if they do, it's purely coincidental. They are not their flesh and blood. Their relationship is based on a fantasy and most people eventually come to realise that. All of this is facts, so what's not logical about it? Your criticism though is driven by emotions, 100%. lol
Think of it from the child’s perspective. No child asks to be born. All the pain and suffering and happiness your child will experience is your responsibility. Can you guarantee a good life to your child?
I would not agree with the idea that it's only the parents' responsibility. Nobody can ask to have a valuable life either, and neither does anyone ask to not be born. If one creates a person with good intentions and in relatively stable socio-economic conditions (which is something many people unfortunately fail to do to a sufficient degree), I think that it can be justified to create a person. The goods/bads they would experience would also be caused by other factors, including other people and their own actions. Still, it's important that we recognise that mindlessly creating mini-mes isn't the best idea. I hope that ideas such as transhumanism, veganism, and the RTD will help reduce suffering significantly.
@@cosmiclifeist4875 It is wrong to create life.
@@sethmorgenroth6784 No, it isn't always. However, I don't believe that everyone needs to create beings. Hope you have a nice day!
@@cosmiclifeist4875 bringing a child to a world where we know for a fact that anything bad could happen to them and that they could be hurt by anyone, that they could have a miserable life of suffering. gambling with someone's life by giving birth knowing all this is not justifiable and people with stable socio economic conditions can live a life of suffering too. I'm not saying that you can't have kids, but i don't think it's justifiable.
@@MarioLopez-hb6li I am not denying that such harms do exist, and this is also why I believe that we should stop creating mindlessly creating beings without taking one's social conditions into account.
Nevertheless, one cannot ignore the fact that there are also deeply meaningful experiences such as love and beauty which one could experience. Many positives could happen to them, and they could also be helped (and help) by others. They could have an ineffably valuable life.
I don't think this is exactly a "gamble", since one can still see that most people do seem to value their lives, which means that there is a reasonable probability that many others would too. However, if it's bad to partake in the "gamble" due the the risk of harm, it's also problematic to not do so due to the opportunity of great goods. Just as people who are rich can be sad, people who don't have a lot of material comforts can also be happy and content.
I am also not saying that one should always procreate, but I don't think that universal antinatalism is justifiable. Still, I do appreciate your efforts to advocate for reducing suffering. I am optimistic that ideas such as a liberal RTD and transhumanism can help significantly reduce suffering. Hope you have a great day ahead!
the question should be: do kids want YOU!
No....i haven't had any
....im.48 ...free and can do whatever i want with no regrets ❤
For example?
You are just another bot on this world anyways, with no heritage and no plan, timewaster!
No. They got me slaving away, not my kids.
Im literally the last laborer in my family. #wage slavery ends with me
@@hermanjones8001 I SALUTE you! You SHOULD force government to PAY you as much as CEOs make, to minimize YOUR suffering as long as YOU exist.
many people cry during funerals but many people still have the audacity to create more (eventual) funerals by procreating. there’s no guarantee your child won’t be born with any disease or disorder. bringing non-sentient beings into this f’d up world is nonsense. even if you’re rich and have a good life, you can’t guarantee your kid(s) will have a good life. if your child decides that they hate life then what? tough luck? gtfo. this is coming from someone who used to want their own biological kids one day.
Ditto
@@theultimatereductionist7592 Or they can force the CEOs not to have so much wealth accumulated so the inequality don’t increase 😊
I think not only the environmental plays a role to have children or not but also the financial aspect plays a huge role. Salaries are not catching up with the high inflation. Families are struggling financially while both couples are working full time or have multiple jobs just to survive.
!!!!!!!! Adaptation of children and renunciation of parental rights !!!!!!!!
The maternal instinct passed me by, and I am so glad it did. Having kids in today's world doesn't seem like the best idea.
!!!!!!!! Adaptation of children and renunciation of parental rights !!!!!!!!
Enjoy your cat
We've reached a point in humanity's development where we are only beginning to really scrutinize whether or not we should procreate. I'm quite happy to be childfree and an antinatalist for ethical reasons.
Most People try not to think about these topics and live as if they have purpose and achieve nothing eventually
@@Gingnose Life can certainly be valuable for many people, but I also think that ideas such as the RTD and transhumanism should be promoted so that suffering can be minimised.
Glad people have found value in their lives ;)
I do think that creating people without due consideration, particularly in contemporary times, can be problematic, to say the least. However, I don't agree with universal AN. Essentially, I don't believe that the lack of harms can be said to be good without the absence of goods also being considered bad.
Anyway, thanks for your contributions towards reducing suffering. Hopefully, we will live in a better world someday.
Also, that moth isn't creepy!
What ethical reasons? Muh overpopulated world? 90% of the growth comes from Africa.
@@Gaze73 Not really. There are valuable experiences that matter. However, I do think that mindlessly creating beings is wrong.
Edit: Oh, I am sorry. I think you were replying to moth.
There are so many children that already exist. I hope people start talking more about adoption and everyone who is considering this question, seriously considers adoption as one of their possible options.
Adoption is the most terrible path, I have been trying to adopt a kid since 3 years. There are many many obstacles costs, etc etc. And guess what I am still waiting
@@felixpope6073fully agree, people have an outdated view that there are tons of children for adoption but nowadays its a lot easier to keep your child (which is a great thing). Its not easy to adopt, aside from the emotional burden there are many other considerations.
Agree with you
😂 Fostering is another option.
Overwhelmingly the third and fourth world, though.
When i was 24 years old i though the same, but when i was 32 i became preagment of my only son. He is 8 years old and my sunshine, my own, the light of my eyes.
my this, my that, my my my. You sum up the average human nicely...🤔
Happy to read happy comment in this list of obsessive neurotic people. Be happy ❤❤❤
They would have to pay me better and give free childcare for me to consider even having kids. My childhood was hard and I would never want to pass that on to anyone.
Same here
My sentiments exactly.
Cost of living is shocking
I would never do something to someone that I wouldn't want done to me, and for that I will never have children.
For the very same reason many would choose to have children. I am against guilt tripping people into not having children - that is 'unethical' right?
Why are you still alive then?
At least here in Brazil ,the primary concern about have kids or not is based on financial aspect
How funny they have not mentioned any of that 😅. Well the girl lives in Switzerland, does she? 😅😅😅
I am glad you addressed this!
I'm 30 now, and my only thought every day is just to take care of myself and not to bring any trouble to others, so don't want to others to bother me as well...(I mean children)
I am 28 and childfree, will never have kids
and?
Easy to say when you are a man, you can change your mind later, get a girl in her 20s or 30s and have a child. I’m a woman 😢I’m 27 years old what if I change my mind when I’m 35?
@@belle3055 a beautiful lady like you will have her options open till the age of 45. It is a different case that I won't change my mind
@@ameygade1977it is fine, we have enough of you
@@riceball100 I ain't freezing my eggs
It’s not responsible to bring a child into a dying world against its will with no humane escape hatch. Problem solved, no masters degrees or piano music required.
Excellent point.
Been waiting for this comment!!
What a load of crap, this is selfish and disgusting and self-scented you should be ashamed of yourself
Yes, very funny , 🤣 you and parents should decide whether the child should live.
What utter shit. I wonder what a person 50, 100, 300, years ago would say about that in the world they lived in.
Personally, I chose to not have children. There are so many in the world already, that are suffering badly, also in richer countries. So, instead, I've been a foster parent.
Over time I've shifted more and more to nature being more important than nurture, in raising children. We have tried to install many good traits in children, but we've seen over and over again, how they follow their original family's pathways. E.g. my last foster daughter didn't get pregnant as a teen. But she is utterly selfish, as is her birth mother. My last foster son is damaged by Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and we hope to have saved the world from a mass murderer, since he was one big ball of aggression. Yet, he's still indifferent to others, mainly. Sigh.
So, if two kindhearted people want children, I'd say: go for it. Pass on the GOOD GENES too! The future needs smart, responsible and compassionate people too. Nurses, teachers, scientists, doctors. If that's your family legacy, PLEASE REPRODUCE and train them well! The others will reproduce REGARDLESS and they'll only outnumber the good ones otherwise.
The philosopher doesn't think these things through. You've taken someone with a very extreme view.
That is the point though, isn't it? Our children will be brought into a world filled with increasingly with selfish, unintelligent and mentally unstable people as unfortunately they tend to breed carelessly and excessively due to their careless and selfish mentalities. The question is, Is it right to inflict that on them when we know what awaits them, almost certainly. The world changed so much, and for the worse, in the last 20 years, what about the next 20?
@@christinegangai1608the world has never been a better place to live. Life expectancy, personal freedoms, poverty and malnutrition rates, ... The past was the worse!
By nature, human babies can't survive without adults for many years, therefore, separation with parents is a huge unnatural thing - this is part of the nurture that they experienced - a trauma on mental and even physical level. Adopted kids have been severely traumatized, and help from a good psychologist or psychiatrist is often needed. Some events, teen pubertal behaviour can have unexpected reasons. For example, you are saying 'selfish like her birth mother' would be really painful to hear for your daughter (it is even a bit painful to read) and make you daughter not trust you. Some psychologists suggested never to blame birth parents. I think knowledge is a power anyway, just do some more research or consult with specialists. Good luck! I wish I had your courage)
@@olgabaruleva3228 Right, I've got all the knowledge I need. I AM the specialist.
And that's how I know from all aspects.
Why on earth would you think I TOLD one of my former foster daughters (thank heavens not my adoptive daughter), that she is selfish like her mother? I didn't. But I observed her on very many occasions. And I do know what I saw. She was and is like that from the age I know her (9). Of course we set a good example, we took her with us in helping others, we talked about the necessity of that, we corrected her when needed, spoke things through from all perspectives, etc. She could agree and even enjoy the activities. Yet, whenever it had to come out of her, she showed utter selfishness as a default. She's in her early twenties now.
Never did I blame her birth mother. Merely, I explained what made life so difficult for her. We emphasized contact with her birth father, which was a nice, but weak man, as far as I can tell with undiagnosed FAS, and he got to enjoy developing real contact with his children, before he passed away, as a result of his own alcoholism.
It's frustrating to see that also this apple didn't fall far from the tree. She took mostly after her mother. And how little I managed to achieve. Whenever I Really needed to get a thing through to her, the only thing that seemed to work a bit for the long term, was to take her viewpoint, to reason from utter selfish inklings.
It's good, that my post makes people cringe a bit, for that's why I wrote it. People HAVE to be aware of the truth of things. Genes speak much louder than upbringing. It's hard work!
She did relatively well. She has a good diploma and has a steady job. And she doesn't have children yet, by which we broke the cycle of getting pregnant too young. Overall, I did beyond expectation in raising her. Yet, there remain things to be desired, that go unfulfilled.
@olgabaruleva3228 Thank you for your comment!
THE BEST EXISTENCE IS NONE EXISTENCE.
KNOW LIFE, KNOW PAIN.
NO LIFE, NO PAIN.
ANTINATALISM.
based
Mmmm ... yet you are still breathing? Not to mention the pure contrary nature of the comment ... hoping it is sarcasm but there are so many nutters around hard to tell haha!!
I really don't like the direction this world is heading.
Regular people are poorer and poorer year by year, today's children already will have issues to have their own home. Probably they will never be able to afford it. Pollution is growing, population worldwide is growing like crazy and inequalities together with it. The earth can only support certain number of people. With more people, more pollution and of course more consumption. Rise in the AI being another factor, where more and more jobs will get gradually replaced by AI (already happening). Retirement age going up constantly, where I don't even know if I will live till my retirement.
I decided long time ago that I don't want to bring a child into this messed up world.
What are you yourself stil doing around here?
@@jeroendebruyne2165using water and air for nothing
the idea is thoughful. To make it even more thoughful, may consider to help in the pollution and reduce the time to use internet. Less electricity consumption, better for environment with actions.
This was sad and great.
Netflix movie 'Dont Look Up' is the perfect example of humanity's current state and how we are dealing with this question. Sitting in a car heading for cliff, do I want my child sitting in that car?
YES! Same thing was mentioned in the 70's regarding food shortages ... and yet there was no mass famine. Now is THE most stable period for living a fulfilling life in all human history. The ATTITUDES people have towards humanity needs to change. We are nature as much as anything else BUT we have a greater consciousness (that appears little used by some).
Can you give me a time and place when you think it WAS a good idea to have kids?
@@jeroendebruyne2165 dat was het nooit, is het niet en zal het nooit zijn
There can’t be infinite growth on a finite planet with finite natural resources.
(Human) animals all throughout history have experienced this billions of times. Better it all stopped tomorrow, but the suffering will go on for a little bit longer 😵💫
I am pregnant and decided to have it . I don’t want to make it disappear. It is the second child.If the future environment is tough, she/ he still have someone to rely on when we are dead. If the future is good, they will have a colorful life. I myself won’t want to be a human with the next turn. They decide where to go when they can make a choice.
Do you have a baby for yourself or for baby? I guess in most cases, people have a baby for themselves.
Yes, for their ego and because of money. In germany, if you born a child, you would have social pension as well and woman do not need to work fulltime. It is so ideal theory.
I regret having a child. I’d I had waited another 5 years I would have NEVER EVER had a child. I wish my child never has a child. All of this, not because it is not a pleasure to have her. She is the love of my life but my heart ACHES and I cry myself to sleep every night thinking about the world she is growing up in and the world she will deal with when I’m not there. I am not going to list a billion reasons why I think it’s selfish to have kids in this world, people know that already. I will never have more kids. I refuse to give birth to a beautiful living being only to let them be treated like a piece of shit by the leaders do this world.
Having children is not the critical issue. It's raising them. Most people in the post industrialised society don't know what it takes to be parents. They are not shown by the parents and society. They are only happy to remain childish. Maturity is prerequisite to parenting. One can have it before becoming a parent, or he nurtures it while raising children. Some don't get it at all. Raising children grows yourself to understand the humanities. It's the best teacher to understand about others and the nature. On the other side, economic and climate worries are unnecessary. When you are ready to sacrifise your life to raise kids in the decent and appropriate way, you will always be blessed to find the way. I foster 140 kids and it's my personal testimony.
This subject gave me as well a lot of food for thought.
I am not surprise with the survey on Philippines. Having a family or kids here is a struggle. Wages doesn't meet up with the daily expenses as prices goes up. Like they say HR and Employer demands a lot on hiring people but the salary is below minimum. That's why many Filipinos work abroad to help their family.
And still you usually have big families there , unlike rich Europe, where people en masse choose life for themselves
I am, the Philippines has a very high birth rate, it's in the top half of countries with the highest in the world, higher than places like Pakistan and Haiti.
Having kids is a challenge, especially nowadays life's so complicated. You need to be courageous, since bringing them up requires a strength not everybody has.. Yet, I do agree with those saying that's mostly a matter of wanting them. I simply chose not to have any!
So you basically decided to die in loneliness, your choice what can I say
@@ediccartman7252
Yes, what you say is true, but in my opinion deciding to have kids just because you do not want "to die alone" as you say, may be seen as selfish. I didn't exactly say that, because life is complicated nowadays you had better not have kids, merely saying you can understand those who do not feel like having them. I have seen people "die alone" because their younger relatives or children didn't seem to care much about them or they have decided to go live thousands of miles away from them. Honestly this can't be a reasonable point you're making. Then everyone does as they see it is best for them!
@@semprefedeli6729 that's true - everyone does what's best for them. I personally don't see anything wrong with not wanting do die alone. It's nothing to do with selfishness, human being is a social animal in its nature, and you should have smb. who you can share your thoughts and troubles with ( even those you can't share with your friends).
And I'm sorry for being rude, but saying life is complicated is position of a weak person. Nobody promised, life is gonna be easy. And saying life is complicated, is just an excuse for doing nothing and unwillingness to change smth in yourself .
Finally a fair and reasonable reaction. If you don't want kids, fine!
I hope you go d meaning and joy in your life in another way 🤗
@@jeroendebruyne2165 thanks, I perfectly understand that the purpose of life is getting married and have kids. One thing is having this clear in your mind, quite another is doing things simply because "this is the right thing to do" when you don't feel like it 🙂👋
Very useful and interesting, but how much of climate change is the result of individual action compared to the actions or inactions of governments and industry who are motivated by greed and self-interest? Who really has the power here?
Now well into my 40s I’m so happy with my decision not to have kids. I’m an older sister, cousin, aunt, and future adopted granny hopefully 😊 ive been able to help and financially contribute towards my nieces upbringing and help other causes. I’ve travelled the world, and have a career, home, great social life and feel fulfilled and at peace. I’m not leaving anyone to an uncertain future, and I can help those who are already here and need help.
You have a lot of nothing except cope
Humanity is over. It is always unethical to push life on sentient beings. And more and more people are starting to realise this. This temporary existence piramid game is not fun at all for a majority of people.
A new dawn will come. Of course, it's not as if we live in utopia. Yet, there is still good in the world. I hope people can recognise it and fight for it. The majority of people do seem to prefer their lives despite the difficulties they face. I would say that it's definitely important to overcome problems such as climate change and excessive consumerism. Hope you have a wonderful day!
@@cosmiclifeist4875 Having a child only increases the Want, Consumption, and Grief in the world. There are no altruistic reasons to have a child.
@ It also increases happiness, love, and beauty. It helps form meaningful bonds and sustain civilisation. Unfortunately, many people do procreate simply because they want more working hands. But this doesn't mean one cannot give birth in order to give someone a life they would value. If that's still not altruistic, then neither is the decision to not procreate, since those who don't exist have no desire to avoid existence that would be satisfied by their prevention. I hope that we can address problems such as climate change and rising inequality before mindlessly procreating. Hope you have a wonderful day!
Why would anyone want to bring a child in to this mess Republicans are creating. If you are being forced to carry an unwanted child then you have lost your right to choose for yourself.
If you are not having fun in the 21st cehntury west then you have brought it on yourself.
I live/ survive in Ukraine 💙💛and I am unsure about future either !
This is the very question my friends and I am discussing and thinking about. We tend to not to have one.
Other cultures and religions are having children. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Personally, I chose to not have children. There are so many in the world already, that are suffering badly, also in richer countries. So, instead, I've been a foster parent.
Over time I've shifted more and more to nature being more important than nurture, in raising children. We have tried to install many good traits in children, but we've seen over and over again, how they follow their original family's pathways. E.g. my last foster daughter didn't get pregnant as a teen. But she is utterly selfish, as is her birth mother. My last foster son is damaged by Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and we hope to have saved the world from a mass murderer, since he was one big ball of aggression. Yet, he's still indifferent to others, mainly. Sigh.
So, if two kindhearted people want children, I'd say: go for it. Pass on the GOOD GENES too! The future needs smart, responsible and compassionate people too. Nurses, teachers, scientists, doctors. If that's your family legacy, PLEASE REPRODUCE and train them well! The others will reproduce REGARDLESS and they'll only outnumber the good ones otherwise.
Just my stance on things.
Bots don't prefer kids, they prefer staying alone like a lost sheep
If you want to have children, try to adopt children.
exactly
Adoption is not the same as having your own bio child though. It is not the same experience, no matter what fantasists claim.
there not enough babies to adopt, 1 baby for 30 parents
@@how-to-live-right Yet there are still a lot of children in the orphanages. I think that it shouldn't be more difficult to be granted the right to adopt a child than to be granted the right to procreate. Adoption must become easier and you should at least fullfill some basic qualifications for procreation (like e. g. not being a drug addict) - but I am still against procreation in general.
@@quinncreel6091 Do you realize that it's very selfish to have a biological child for this reason?
Wow, thanks for this. Hi from Sri Lanka. I also think we can adopt if you want to have children. That might be a good solution and a very humane thing to do right.....
most of the people are way too egoistic to adopt which I find so weird.. when it comes to dogs or animals in generally... people are like
" oh noo dont support breeders! so cruel! ADOPT AND SAVE A LIFE "
then people doesnt have the same mindset when it comes to human kids.........
" eww its not my lineage, I want mini me "
then there are kids that end up being victims to human trafficking etc
OR no one say oh you are so cruel when you marry cousins ( consequences of inbreeding...)
or have biological kids when you know parents has serious deceases that is going to
impact the kid.... lol
Are they tryna hypnotise us with those sodding circles or what!
I cannot watch the video with those circles going round and round. They distract me from hearing and make my head spin!
I didn't quite get this one tbh. It sounded like having less kids would be an economic strain. But reduced pressure on the environment and it's resources still?
A child is a gift that nothing else can compensate for.
If you have any doubts, then don't.
I'm from Latin America and is so sad to realize that the norm around here is that people don't even ask themselves this questions and plan families, it feels that at least around half the population here just get drunk dancing reggaeton and reproduce like 🐒 without any plans
That's very wrong 😕 poor kids
Its fine.. by the time your peers wake up Europe and Asia will be an older population.. so they can import you youth
@@hayleyfay4779 I don't think they'll be happy to import unqualified highschool drop outs without any qualifications and 4 children.. it sounds more like a possible extra load on the benefits system if they invite them to Europe. I'm convinced that sadly we are on our way to a future like the one portrait on the movie Idiocracy
If there is happiness in that, then that too is life. I think it's unnecessary help, but I'm praying that you can find happiness for you.
@@MarionPetterson europe has benefitted more than they could ever pay back from Africa .
They should take the youth .
I find it condensing that you assume they UNEDUCATED .
Antinatalism is the solution. Contra-intuitive to most people but nevertheless the solution.
A solution bigger than the problem, at least when applied universally. Still, it has value in bringing attention to the need to reduce harms.
@@cosmiclifeist4875 The problem is that all sentient life means suffering. The solution is that all sentient life goes extinct. Then all suffering ceases. It will never cease as long as there is one single sentient being left.
@@francisdec1615 It means much more than suffering, and the cessation of that other side of the coin is not something desirable. If anything, it would be the genesis of a problem much more potent than the solution (of course, the values under consideration are abstract) for the sentient beings in question. Additionally, ideas such as sentientism and transhumanism can help eradicate most forms of suffering.
How is that different from suicide booths or better yet nuclear war? If reproduction is pointless then so is living.
exactly
Children are a blessing and a gift
The world is dying. We are literally killing off life on this planet. I’m worried about my own future, and I’m just over 30, imagine having a kid to worry about too? My retirement plan is suicide. Not because of depression, but because of climate change. It has robbed everyone under 60 of their future. Why would I give birth to a child with no future?
Really 😊
The world is not dying though it is getting damaged.
Also, you can't simply say all under 60's have their future ruined as each individual will have different lives.
And as much as things are bad, suicide is not the answer.
@ruairievans431
The only thing I gather from your response is you haven’t actually read the climate reports and don’t realize how bad it is. I live in Scandinavia, one of the regions in the world far better off to still be livable in a few decades. The thing is, when Scandinavia. Canada, Siberia and some other parts of Russia are basically the only livable places left in a few decades, and all of the world are competing for that space and whatever resources are left there, do you really think the nation states we have today will withstand that? We will start seeing society collapse in a couple of decades or so. And once that happens, I honestly don’t see what will be left to live for. Not for myself, others may feel differently. I don’t believe in survival at all cost for myself. Life needs to have quality to be worth living, and when hopes for the future and for building a better world disappears there is no quality left to be had, not for me anyway. So yes, my retirement plan is suicide. Yes, it will be the answer when it gets that bad. Read the latest climate report, then come back and tell me I’m wrong.
@@josephinenilsson1541 The future looks uncertain, do u still hold onto the belief of no hope. Then why are people breeding and starting families if there no future left. How long do you see yourself living for. sad times ahead, yet people are breeding its really unbelievable, how many are clueless on the coming years.
If an absence of pleasure can't affect non-existing people because they are not existing, then how can they benefit from absence of pain? They are not 'existing' so it is impossible to benefit...
I think the statement is fundamentally wrong, assuming the view of what does not exist.
Why is antinatalism such a worrying trend and tragic? What Pollyanna 'Aunty' rhetoric. 12 billion people living 'sustainably'...is Berners-Lee serious? Good news that people are waking up and saying NO to procreation. Full marks to David Benatar... 'Better Never to Have Been' is the way to go.
Because it is illogical and makes no sense when thought out rationally AND when the evidence is taken into consideration. It is worrying that so many are so easily convinced when it allows them to avoid responsibilities and burdens.
There will never be 12 billion people. Although I do agree some people probably never would have been born. Wink Wink.
Why not have less people with less worries. Why do we bring so many to this world and teach them not to consume not to travel etc etc
NO. There are too many people already. Stop having kids.
If you think there are too many people: you can reduce the number by one. Go for it
@@jeroendebruyne2165 Ok but to double the impact I'm taking you with me
It is optional
Thinking more deeply, the large-scale matter is about population aging. The pressure in society in 2-3 decades because of the lack of young laborers. I always know that, but the thought that I bring the children into this world but can not give them what they need haunts me.
Then, if you want people who do labor, you should pay better, there is a lot of corruption and inequality in this crisis
Women who choose not to have a child must be awarded- Sadguru
Lots of respect to all the women who choose not to have a child, it is the highest form of devotion to the world.
Yes and the highest form of satanism
we wqill burn in hell
Yea and it is so easy. Just get a pills and grind all over again. Then wonder they are lonely when they hit 40s 50s. Then they commit suicide, end of a good story of a feminist. 😅😂
@@codelessunlimited7701 Another delusional incel.
@@dot347 one does not have to be Christian to see that promotion of depopulation is evil. Especially when this is mainly targeted to ethnic European women. The only babies the evil elites want them to have are mulato babies. Just look at the advertising where in 99% of commercials White women are paired with blacks. How dumb do they think we are?
well said 25:55 😢
I'm getting on a bit. I wished I could find some one to spend my life with and have children. It hasn't happened yet. There is still time but I'm leaving it to fate. Yes climate change is an issue. We have to change it. We also have an aging population in the UK and around the world so in a way children will save our population. Pros and cons
I have felt the desire to be a mom. I know it’s probably the animal instinct to reproduce, but i also think it’s a whim. Parenthood is not something that should only be done out of desire, it must be taken into account that to live in this world you have to pay. Life is not right, it is a lie. I don’t want my children to have to pay for food, health, education, even a place to live. I feel like it would be a tottally selfish act on my part to bring that creature into this broken society. I think the greatest act of love i can give him/her is not bringing them into this world.
Rất hay
When i was at a very young age, I dreamed of having children with 26 years old, and now, i have 32 years, and I am not sure about having children. My condition now does not allow me to have children, and my country has been in the economic and financial crise. There are a lot of people out there, eating in the trash even children, anyway, so many people are suffering. However, having children become more difficult nowadays
Not include most of the Asia city
I don’t have children yet because of financial security I want a standard of living for them to avoid stress not the environment…I work for an offshore wind farm net 0 company
If Instagram will be disappeard, i will have one.
Noooo! Enough humans on the 🌏
British video, skip ahead 5 minutes to get to the point.
new people being born means new ideas and new solutions... imagine the inventors of medicines never being born.. or the the inventors of ecological products...
Well When I was younger age being before 30, I used to desire to settle down and have a child. However, I m getting older and facing to obstacles in life that I have started self-inquiry whether giving birth is crucial and children are happy and ready to learn and experience all things in life because I wised I had not been born sometimes 😂 in thís 3D. I know this thought seems quite selfish, but We never know if they want to appear in the world. Therefore, my mind is unchanged until now.
"Own nothing, don't travel, don't eat meat, and MAYBE you'll be deserving enough to have a child." ☠️
I'm living a dilemma right now: My husband want to have children and I don't want to... two years relationship and everyday the same talk. I don't know if I should just leave him, cause I really love him
I was living in the same situation for over 10 years, agreed to try for a baby because I love him and I convinced myself I want children. Found out I was pregnant 4 days ago and I feel like my life is over and I regret it so, so much. Trust your gut, I wish I had a time machine now. It is an irreversible challenge to your whole life and who you could be.
@@ourwishonawing how are you now ? If you could turn time would you leave him and have a child with someone else?
@ourwishonawing wait once the child is born. I am sure, you will love this baby
@ourwishonawing wait once the child is born. I am sure, you will love this baby
The greenest gift you can give this beautiful planet is not have children.
There was enough for all beings when there were 3/4 billion humans. Now most animals are on the extinction list 😢😢😢😢
Gibberish. With no people there is no one to enjoy life. Scary how popular an illogical such as anti-natalism has taken such a grip.
That and eating plant based diet. Animal agriculture is responsible for mass extinction, ocean dead zones and acidification, soil degradation etc.
Nunca vi sentindo em trazer ao mundo quem nunca pediu pra nascer, ainda mais havendo tantas crianças e adolescentes precisando de uma família. Quando eu era pequena, minhas bonecas todas já eram filhas adotivas. Todos sempre disseram que eu mudaria de ideia, mas nunca hesitei. É a primeira coisa que deixo claro quando me relaciono com alguém: minha decisão de não ter filhos biológicos é inegociável. Felizmente, o antinatalismo tem ganhado muitos adeptos nos últimos anos.
Most of the babies are made from mistake of their parents, not from their intention.
The best choice ❤
I have two children and both always sick. And I regret having children. please stop thinking to have children. I never have been happy since my wife got pregnant till today. That is my advice from my practical life.
I think it's a mistake to talk to David, the philosopher.. 😅
Human beings come from nature, so just let everything follows nature
no for me
Having children is getting expensive for normal people.
Justification for having more children presented here from societal pov is population aging and governmental need to keep the economy afloat, when the elderly people can not work anymore. At the same time AI is considered a threat for cutting number of people needed in the economy. Maybe we could let machines do major part of work, so reduction of number of children per family in favor of quality of their education and mindfulness wouldn't look that bad?
I think we've reached the point of converting extensive demographical development into intensive technological one.
Have children. We we're meant to. Why are they scaring people with this? Wtf
the question should be do you want kids!
...............the only factor this video looks at is climate change ?! I am pretty sure there are way more immediate factors related to child birth.
NO! My own response here.
yes) of course) Only Chineese and Indians must multiply) and we have to take responsibility for their chldren's lives) We don't need chidren on our own)) Lets be enviromentaly aware for Chineese)) ❤ lots of love from China))
Having kids is like adding a member of sqid dying game
No don't. They are too much work and well having them is fulfilling, ignorance is bliss. You don't know what you're missing and in the end what they give balances out to the difficulty/stress they cause. So it's basically a wash in my mind. But I do have a challenging child with ADHD. So maybe my opinion would be different if I had a different child.
I don't understand why people talk about climate change in this episode? Is it related to "should I have children"?
!!!!!!!! Adaptation of children and renunciation of parental rights !!!!!!!!
İ cant.afford feeding myself properly children need quality food education I live in turkey we live in heaven but menegment sucks
It’s not only climate, it’s economic situation, inflation, access to basic needs, freedom etc.
I 24 now and I don't want children
Before you have a baby, better to a examination before to have a child. 😂😂
I never wanted have babies, only cats, until some interesting men and wanting nice family with them. Alone, no. But I don t know, I am 40 years old snd I want a good life not only for me and love seems no be mutual and my babies should have good, "rich"and real nice life as me...Ah, snd of course, maybe Biology not always is good snd you can have dependeable children, not care how beauty or clever are the couple, so more difficult...
Simple answer: NO do not have children.
if somebody from developed country. just move and live at developing country. much cheaper and adventure
No.
Why there are no aliens out there?
You know the *answer*
Yup, they weren't lucky enough to experience joys ;)
Alternatively, they were neither lucky nor unlucky, and consequently, their lack of existence also has no positive/negative value.
@@cosmiclifeist4875 looking at your replies, you really do put joys on very high pedestal, don't you?......a non existant being don't give a fuck about joys or beauty or anything for that matter.....stop applying what you value in your life to everyone.....joys of life don't last very long, while pain and suffering do and it also damages the psyche for a very very long time........the things you call joys are just temporary reliefs from the ongoing suffering and i believe are present so we can feel the suffering even harshly by thinking of the good times.
Kids don't ask to be born and when they do and they don't like it, what's the other choice for them??? Suicide? The thing that is illegal in many countries? The thing that is very painful both psychologically and physically!
Y'all want to gamble so badly even though the reality says that your child would suffer numerous times all throughout their life.
You're not gambling with some money, but someone's life...it is always morally wrong to gamble with other beings life no matter what you brainwash yourself into thinking otherwise.
I saw you trying very hard to justify your decision or future decision....just know that, you're wrong about procreation no matter how you sugarcoat it.
@@liteviews4493 Looking at your reply, one can clearly see that you have an undue focus on suffering. I do not put anything on a pedestal unjustifiably, just as I refuse to worship at the altar of the prevention of harms at the cost of everything. I don't think that my personal experience is of much relevance here, for my own misery doesn't significantly diminish the power the joys have for countless sentient beings.
A nonexistent being also does not care about the absence of suffering. However, if it can be good to prevent it, it can also be problematic to prevent the good.
I never claimed that the suffering we do experience isn't serious. Unfortunately, there are people who cannot find joy in their lives, which is why I support the right to a graceful exit and transhumanism so that the harms can be minimised. Nevertheless, I do not believe that happiness is always trivial. Love, beauty, and the pursuit of knowledge can have immense significance for many people even in the face of seemingly insuperable odds. A single effulgent smile can drive us to do great things for the sake of those we care about. Our psyche also possesses a lot of resilience, and whilst I am not claiming that things are perfect, I do believe that the positives do matter. Suffering can sometimes take away the fundamental good, but it does not always have to nullify its value.
Kids don't ask to avoid a good life and relish the void either. Many people go on to deeply cherish their lives and find it to be incredibly precious. But I do agree with you that people should have to option to choose a dignified way out if all other options fail. I think it's unethical to force someone to endure a valueless existence when one could give them a compassionate way out.
If participating in the so-called "gamble" is wrong due to the risk of a negative outcome, it is also good due to the opportunity of a positive one which would allow a person to experience innumerable pleasant experiences that would act as a source of inimitable value for them. However, I do think that we should not be mindlessly procreating before addressing issues such as rising inequality and climate change.
I am afraid that partaking in a "gamble" that would result in the prevention of all joy cannot be deemed ethical, even if one has been misled into thinking that. As I have said before, if the prevention of the harms can be good, the prevention of the positives is necessarily bad. All actions are based upon probabilities, by the way, so one does take risks for the sake of achieving happiness that cannot have any monetary value.
I don't need to put in much effort to justify the obvious; I merely don't like to see people holding fundamentally flawed positions, such as universal antinatalism. Pointing out the ineffable potency of the good has nothing to do with "sugarcoating", and although I do think that we need to work together towards the reduction of harms, I don't believe that universal antinatalism is a justifiable position.
Yet, I am also glad to see that there are empathetic people like you who care about others and seek to eliminate unnecessary harms. The flame of hope continues to burn!
I hope that you have a wonderful day/night!
当好父母是最难的事，真的很难很难
@lix5639 是的。我同意你的看法。在我看来，养孩子比读博士还难。😂
He called a child “it”??? Pathetic
If I were rich , I would have adopted a kid (more than 1)without going to marriage and without having any dirty practical sex shit 🤮 in my life keeping my virginity intact ( I feel regretful to express the Truth that way 🙄) , I would have appointed some Mary Poppins type mistress to raise them properly so that I can have a cheerful dinner at home after work, and go holidays 😁.Who needs to tackle complexity of Life. No midlife crisis, instead of spending money on jewels , I can spend it raise some bright futures, and have fun . Legecy .... What is a legecy, a seed of which the tree you will never get a chance to see . No hassle , clean psychology with freedom. 😇🎉 . A lot of benefits that could be written , you will get tired to read it . 😂
No