How To Fix Yamaha FZ-07 / MT-07 Fork Problem
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 лис 2024
- www.DaveMossTuning.com
In a previous video we explained and demonstrated the inherent problem with the Yamaha MT-07 / FZ-07 forks (link below). In this video Dave actually fixes Raymond Heron's MT-07. The thumbnail pic shows some of the tire wear issues created by the flaw in the stock fork engineering. Raymond Heron leads the Kiwi Riders Podcast on Facebook.
Our other video about the problem davemosstuning...
I followed your instructions by watching your video which helped me improve my original fork. I followed all the steps to the letter, my participle cycle has changed radically. Road holding it is more precise in turns comfortable less rebound for my MT07. Thank you for your professional expertise.
Thank you for sharing the result. Excellent work sir!!! What year was your MT07?
@@catalystreactionsbw Mine is from 2021 and i did the same on a model from 2018, the owner is totally satisfied.
My partners daughter bought an MT07 after learning on an old "94 cb250, she has been so disappointed with the bike, she was way slower riding the MT than she was on the little 250. I've been around bikes a long time and was scratching my head as to how to help. I thought she was maybe a little scared of the bigger bike?? I found this video, thought it is definitely worth a try. Well bugga me ....... did the mod today and straight away she is totally in love with her bike again. We ended up going for a 2 hour ride and she is absolutely ecstatic . Thank you so much for sharing this mod it really works a treat, Cheers
@Michal Gornick Whoa! you're a bunch of fools if you think people believe this!
Did you shorten the preload rods to the same lenght ? And same oil ? I weight 75 kg with gears, so less than the guy in the video .
if the person is only 160 lbs or less, the current MT07 standard suspension is more than adequate, only when the person is heavy, around 200 lbs and over ( typical westerner) then yes you need to make this modification.
Why tf would she be slower on an MT07?? The suspension *cannot* be a legitimate reason
@@hexereygoing from my drz400sm to an mt07 I feel way slower on the mt07 because the suspension sucks. It's sloppy and bad at communication lol. Gonna try this tomorrow
Hands down the best motorcycle suspension channel on the internet.
Thank you Grant. Much appreciated.
Thanks Dave, done your conversion last week, followed all your steps closely, shortened spacers 15mm, used Bel Ray 15w, dropped the front end 8mm. Now I have a working suspension. Thank you sir, you are obviously a hero to all of us.
how many kilograms you weigh ?
Was it not working stock on city roads? What did you notice after ? Wondering if I bought the wrong bike after seeing this.
@@SeanOzz what was your conclusion
@@SeanOzz No bike are perfect out of the box
I just bought fz 07 few months ago as a first bike and even as a noob I almost instantly noticed there is something wrong with front suspension, happy to see this kind of detailed and professional advises here , Thanks a lot Dave!
I sat on my little brothers brand spanking new 09 a few years ago, and it took like 10 seconds before i knew that those forks with that biting brakes would be dangerous.
I basically said - this is not right.
It was very much a ride without confidence. Compared to what?
Everything, pretty much.
Now we know how to remedy that :)
You thought somethings wrong because someone on youtube told you beforehand. He gave you the bug into the head thinking somethings wrong. When I first rode the bike, I didnt think that something is wrong, many people who test ride these bikes didnt think something is wrong
@@ivanoxx "You thought somethings wrong because someone on youtube told you beforehand. He gave you the bug into the head thinking somethings wrong." ... or you could simply accept the fact that not everybody is as ignorant as you and stop making up shit because you are butthurt. :)
Hey Dave!
At start sorry for my english :)
I wanted to thank you so much, that you posted full lenght video how to do it step by step here.
I've been riding Mt 07 for almost 2 years and I always thought that this bike is not meant to ride hard, I mean twisty roads and pushing it to the limits.
All the vibrations and bumps on the handlebars that I was getting, I thought that you can't change it, that it is what it is. Every sharp corner all the time just praying so the front won't slip.
That's my first "serious" bike, my very first one was also Yamaha but 125cc for only 1 year.
I don't have much experience, but before I found out your channel I didn't knew that suspension is THAT IMPORTANT in bike, that it makes sooo much difference.
Thanks to your incredible description in video how to do it, I made it on my own yesterday with almost no financial input.
And I can't thank you enough how my bike handles right now. It feels like the tire is glued to the road.
Also lowered the tension in back shock, so now front and back has Static Sag !
I can push it harder on the same corners that ever before, with so much more patience that the suspension is doing what it should.
All my upper body and mind is now relaxed like never ! I trust my bike so much more !
I recomended your video further on our big Mt 07 Facebook group in Poland. Because this can save peoples lives !
Thanks to your education now I understand how suspension works and It is no rocket science !!!
Keep up the brilliant work !
Greetings from Poland !
I don't know about you but I had no issue riding the mt07. I rode it for 2 years riding twisties before changing to Z900.
@@JezzaGee I have 2016, maybe Yamaha fixed it later ? I wouldn't say it was a issue. I thought it was it nature, but it turned out it can bo so different. :)
Hello friend. How u changed that clinder without money? Maybe cuting the edge to shorten?
@@JezzaGee MT07 You only notice it when you ride hard ;-) , MT07 has shit suspension
For the OEM spacer: measurements supplied are 150mm long and OD - 33.9mm
ID - 31.3mm
So basically, Im over 140lbs weight, i should trade the OEM 150mm long spacer for 140mm one with 20w fork oil? Despite having a smaller spacer, the oil with provide me steady suspension? Thanks for all the help!
@@jotasmaster Cut the original or trade, doesn't matter. At 140lbs 15w oil.
Hey dave great video again. What settings would be best for 155 lbs at 180 cms for front fork.
Do you know if yamaha fixed the issues with the front suspension on newer mt07's?
So for 175lb, would I use 20w and 135mm spacer?
Was about to sell this FZ07, but this process has made all the difference to keep it! Thank you!
I found the Dave Moss channel in '16 or '17, when I was setting up my new '16 R1 for track duty at COTA. Now I'm back, setting up a MT07. His MO is exceptional in he you explains what he is doing, in a way that new riders can understand, so they can learn how to work on bike set up themselves-a skill they will use as long as they ride. In this sense, he is a stand out resource for the world moto community, making the sport more enjoyable, and safer, for riders everywhere. Good tuning starting points, by platform, are not easy to find, and Daves' have always been very close to where I wind up. Very important for riders learning to set up their bikes to understand that bike set up is unique to the individual, like a tailored suit...involving preferences, body dimensions, skill level, ect. Having a good starting point, to return to if needed, saves much time and frustration, as well as making the process more safe.
Still have a r1? Amazes me how many people are “downgrading” to MT-07’s. What’s your favorite bike?
Thx Dave. It worked perfectly on my bike. I weigh around 80kg and shortened the spacer by 15 mm and filled 20w oil in. The bike feels like whole new motorcycle. 👍🏼
Are you more confident in turns please explain the challenges
Hi, I watched the first video with enormous interest as my Daughter has an MT07, when I have ridden it I always thought how strange it handled, but just thought it was because my normal ride is a FJR1300.........Anyway I persuaded my daughter to watch both videos, then with my oversight she completed the mods as suggested, also set the bike as suggested in the first video, and wow the improvment is amazing I wanted to try and get my knee down, I could also feel the limitations of the rear suspension (which is easy to live with) the bike now goes where you pont it. I tried not to give the game away as I wanted my daughter to be objective it is after all her ride. As it turns out she gave pretty much the exact same feedback as me. A real value for money mod and a very imformative tution video that enabled my daughter to complete the mods with little iput from me. So a big thank you from both of us for sharing this information
H Richard. Thanks for taking the extra step to make the change and help your daughter transform her MT07 and more importantly, give her the understanding that making a bike your own yields tremendous benefits. No set here on the pathway with ergonomics: ua-cam.com/users/CatalystReactionSBWsearch?query=ergonomics
Revisiting this video after a year. As fate would have it, i will be picking up a used MT07 in some weeks time. Definitely would want to get my regular mech to do this for me! I am 196lbs ungeared, and similar to Raymond the bike will primarily be a daily commuter and occasional weekend corners. Just recapping the most probable route for me :
- cut 10mm off the spacer, leaving it as 140mm long
- 20w fork oil
- 400ml each fork
- 8mm raise from top of the triple. i might consider 10mm since i will be putting on a rear top box to carry some daily stuffs.
A big THANKS to Dave for this.
I'm planning on doing the same to my 2015. Any update to how it feels ?
@@jondrolet25 I have done twice, the first time it was on a bike with lowered rear suspension, the result, front is less jerky over uneven road surface, resulting in much more steering compliance and better road holding. Not as sharp as a sportbike handling but it is an improvement over stock. However I crashed the bike some time after and I picked another 07 again. This time I did the same fork mod but moved on to a modified rear shock that gave better rebound damping control. Can feel the bike handles a whole lot better (less sway, easier to lean and hold your desired line) that I would say it should have been the first thing to work on this bike. But because of how much the rear has improved, this fork mod now seemed inadequate to pair with the improved rear. So in short, fork mod is good if it is done alone, but if you are going to put in a good rear shock, then pair it with good aftermarket fork option rather than doing this mod.
Wouldn't it be great to have a mate like Dave.
Just did this mod today. I've cutted the spacers 15mm, changed oil to Bel Ray 15w, dropped the front end 8mm. Even without taking the bike for a ride because it was pouring, i can still see the difference. Can't wait to try it out.
Thanks Dave.
Thank you for rolling your sleeves up. Please report back post ride and share your thoughts.
How is it?
@@catalystreactionsbw So, the pogo effect is pretty much gone and now i have way more control over corners. Moreover it seems to have less "shimming" at high speeds, what was somehwhat of a surpise to me because, since I've dropped the suspension 8mm and it became more reactive at low speeds, I was expecting it to be more unstable at high speed... but it just isn't.
For the money spent it's a great mod. Thanks again Dave.
I love how Dave can explain exactly what is going on and make it perfectly understandable, and yet still be way over your head at the same time.
Edit: I’ve watched this at least 4 times
Thanks for posting - and @#$%, I wish I could communicate better. What would have helped you so it wasn't over your head?
@@catalystreactionsbw You're a great communicator! It's our unfamiliarity with the theory and adjustment process. Watching something like this 4 times means that it was worth watching 4 times, and mostly to be confident that we are comprehensive in our understanding. This is the best walk through on this issue hands down.
Like@@grimeshayter2566 said, it’s just being unfamiliar with the process that made it over my head. I just had to rewatch it a couple times. Your communication was not the issue
I'll be getting an mt07 soon and as a larger rider just over 200lbs this will likely be one of the first "mods" that I do. This video was extremely informative and helpful and you even kept my attention enough to watch the video all the way through.
Thanks for watching and you will notice a huge difference!
I done this a couple days ago, and it makes a huge difference. Thanks for helping people make their bike more safe to ride. 👍
Did you leave the forks a stock height or have you move them up a bit?
MikeTheFZ07Guy I kept them at the stock position.
Hi bro, where can i get the spacer?
Chris Loh You don’t need another spacer. All you have to do is cut the spacer that is already in the fork. Use a C- clamp style pipe cutter and cut 10mm off of each spacer. Clean up the end that you cut to get the metal shavings off of the long part of the spacer that you are going to put back in the fork. It cost me about 85 dollars for fork oil and tools to do the job. 85 dollars well spent.
JustDoItWith Chase i see. I watched the video above they bought it a whole new thicker one, thats why thinking should i go for it instead cutting the stock. Btw, the best recommended length is 140mm or 135mm? Dave replied to cut off 15mm. As stock is 150mm, so remaining should be 135mm. Correct me if im wrong.
This was brilliant. It’s refreshing to see someone willing to show budget solutions to solve expensive problems.
I would love to be able to afford to take my bike to a suspension pro and get it set up right for my weight. I’m looking at doing a full Ohlins system front and rear and parts alone are around $1800.
Luckily there are videos like Dave Moss vids that give me confidence to do the install myself. ✌️
Thanks for watching and your kind words! Kudos to you for doing the work!
Finally a lengthy video on youtube. Thanks Dave!
First, if you sign up for his FREE membership, you can see the majority of DMT's videos in full.. So a little unfair. The man takes his time, money, effort to produce these videos. Dave surely spends countless hours offering his expertise for free....above all else this isn't some Revzilla, Bike Bandit stooge BSing their way thru a how to video. DMT is widely respected, you know your getting the correct, professional tuning info..from experience...imagine that...from experience. So why not contribute a few bucks so the entire video can be seen .
Can excessive front tire wear on one side caused by road 'crowning? Appear to be Yamaha proprietary SHOWA forks by look of the fork oil (SHOWA SS8 10 wt ) SHOWA uses.... 'strawberry red' colored oil as Dave stated...how much viscosity does fork oil lose over time Dave.. this is an EXCELLENT video for those who have standard telescopic or USD forks w/ minimum tuning capabilities. Dave's fork tuning, 'dump and run' videos are just superb..so much so that I'm going to sign up, become a member ..Dave's tutorials helped me change the fork oil on my Daytona 955 which had 9800 miles on it, ..telescopic standard forks. Gave me tips on procedural steps to remove, change oil, re-install, tighten , align. Thanks Dave !!!!!
Thank you Dave, I thought I loved my FZ07 before, then I followed your clear instructions on how to fix what Yamaha missed while building this bike.
Wow!! What a difference, the bike is way more responsive and feels quite a bit more balanced in corners and under heavy braking. Weight distribution is far better as well. Again, thank you for your time and expertise and this video.
Great video! It's easy to fix a suspension by trowing money at it, but it takes skill and experience to fix things on the cheap.
Ok. I just did this yesterday since the whole state is in COVID lockdown. I ordered the Belray 15w fork oil from Cyclegear and they delivered free shipping within 48 hours. I’m 5’5” , 170 lbs so per Dave’s other video I trimmed the stock spacer down 10mm ( used a hacksaw and metal file). I also raised the forks from stock height to 4mm above the Triple clamp ( just to try it).
Took the FZ out today for a quick ride. Immediately you can tell that the front end is no longer as soft (proper oil weight). It definitely dampens the bumps much better and it doesn’t feel like it’ll wash out when you load the front tire in a corner. ( I’ve low sided her before because the the front went under from me).
Thanks again Dave. Can’t wait until you make it to Escondido in May. I hope to have Ohlins or K Tech rear shock installed for you to square away.
Thanks for sharing your experience and I look forward to seeing you in Escondido IF the restrictions are lifted by then! Take care.
How did you lift up your bike to do this?
How much oil is required, 1 liter is enough for both forks right?
Kyle Anderson I have triple tree headlift for the front. You can find them fairly priced on amazon or buy one used as I did. If you’re wondering, I didn’t used a graduated cylinder to measure the oil. I used a fork oil tool level tool from Cyclegear to get the correct amount of oil. Per Yamaha the for a oil height is 162mm ( I put 165mm ). One container of Belray fork oil was enough for me.
@@kyleanderson6790 I lifted my Bike with a larger ratched strap. Do a loop between a roof beam or something and around The frame just behind The triple clamp. 1 liter is enough for both legs.
Hi Dave !
Just finished today the work on my XSR700
I did :
1. Shorten the spacers to 140mm instead of the stock 150mm
2.changed fork oil to bel ray 15w (I’m 85 kg plus gear)
I filled 403ml in each fork ..
3. Set the forks 8mm up as you show here.
I did everything by myself, took me around 4 hours.
The result is awesome- the bike feels much better, I don’t fell the forks collapse when I brake, the ride I smother, I don’t have this noodle feel when taking corners.
Thanks for this video !!!
Thank you very much for sharing the results and I take great pride in reading you did this step by step and succeeded! Can you share the year of your XSR please so others know this? Thnx!!!
Sure !
My Yamaha XSR 700 is 2017 ,it is my commuter, I drive half an hour to work every day.
I’m 81 kg (85 plus gear), and I’m 1.82 m.
Seriously, if I had to choose only one mod for this bike it would be this front forks mods - after few days of raiding it is just D best mod I have done ! Much before full system , open air filter or anything else.
The bike handle as a normal bike , I have much much more confidence in turns, I discovered a new range of the bike and I have it for four years…
It wasn’t hard to do , just followed your video, again- thank you!
I still have to say the blame is on Yamaha as Yamaha have to approve the performance of any part from any supplier. The supplier would gladly supply higher spec forks but it’s built to a price above all.
If they Specc’ed a part and the supplier has been supplying a out of spec part then it is still on Yamaha to call them out and correct it after all these years
The really sad part is that all it would have taken is a little bit of R&D time to figure out what works. They could have put in this shorter spacer from the factory and a heavier oil, marginally increasing costs.
Properly is the only way and you are able to fully extract the sediment ( 6 mm of trash ground metal compacted in the bottom of the tube ) and dregs out of the tube. I'm just trying to give you what you paid for just like new. It's just love Dave and we all need that for the sake of the job and our name. You pointed it out and that's what I would do. Thank you for the quick show! MaC
FZ/MT-07 Maintenance Tip: For anyone wanting a good way to get BOTH wheels off the ground, I suggest the *Abba Superbike Stand* - Front and Rear Package #2. You can build your own clone or buy the real deal for under $300. It's simple, works very well, and doesn't take a lot of room to store. You need access to each end of the swing arm pivot shaft to lift the bike, so you either have to unbolt & remove the metal covers from each side, OR remove the plastic cap from each cover. On my 2017 FZ-07, these were secured with double-sided foam tape. The way you go depends on how often you plan to use the stand and how much time you're willing to spend to do it versus whether you care about the cosmetic plastic axle pivot caps being in place. If you want to remove the swing arm, there's a way you can attach the lift to a different spot near the foot pegs.
Dave Moss the godfather of suspension tuning 🙏
I sat right up when dave said 3/4" drive.
I never thought that one day I'd be lying in bed riveted to a video of someone servicing forks.
There is a first time for everything :)
Thank you so much! Works a charm Dave! I did the same but with 20 wt oil in mine since i weight 110kg and its made such a huge difference.
Brilliant. Thanks for getting to work and making it happen!
I modified my 2016 FZ-07 based on your recommendation: shorter spacer (150mm to 135mm), thicker oil (15W) and higher level (135mm from top I think) with the 8mm fork offset. The setup is spot on for me at 150lbs and the suspension now complements the engine's friendliness. I might reduce the offset of the fork for more stability in straight lines, but the change has helped with the rear shock.
It's most likely not as good as replacing the front and rear suspension, but for the cost of the bike, it's a good enough fix. Thanks!
Excellent work and thank you for making a difference by doing a positive change to your FZ07. I really appreciate you shar8ng the information here so others can be inspired by your experience.
Does this mod make the bike ride better on rough roads with cracks, tar snakes and uneven sections similar to wash boards? My stock 18 MT07 rides so rough on these roads you can feel every bump. I weigh 155.
@@grant31781 Rough roads make for a rough ride because of the cheap suspension. The mod helps to settle the bike and balance the front/rear, but it cannot make the cheap suspension better than what you might have on a more expensive bike.
I have gotten used to the "dramatic" behavior because the engine is worth dealing with that. Otherwise, it would have been replaced by now.
Dave is a jackpot to me 😀 Keep it up! Every single video is satisfying
Thanks for a full tutorial this is great. I’ve never subscribed to a channel as far I subscribed to yours years ago. Reminds me of the god days off UA-cam. Without all the click bait bs. Love you Dave!
We need more peopoe like this man in the world
That's the kind of perfection I somehow expect from my garage but if these guys would actually take their time they wouldn't make money anymore that is why I started doing all these things myself and we learn something along the way thanks to guy's like this 👍
Thank you. There is an. immense value add from asking the questions and finding the solutions to make something right. Sometimes it is very inexpensive, other times not so much.
@@catalystreactionsbw Other times it just takes insane amounts of time and dealing with frustration getting around that stupid little thing but when you get it right the payoff is beyond words. It's my favorite thing in the world. Cheers man 🤜🤛
so good I watched it twice.
Hi Dave.
I have now done a bit more. Stripped the forks and measured what oil came out. 380ml each side.(drained for 10 minutes or more) I looked at Yam Specs and they say 403ml which is close to what you put back in Ray Herons bike in New Zealand.
I put 400Ml Bel Ray 15w in and measured the air gap. This came out at 162 mm from top (with forks compressed and no spring). I measured using a piece of wire marked with 10mm graduations from 100 to 160. Then added another mark at 162mm. When I topped the oil up (gradually) I lowered the wire in and watched the moment when it broke the meniscus on the oil surface.
As close as I could get it, 162mm air gap was bang on with 400ml. I would say I was within 1mm between both legs.
While I was in there I lopped another 5mm off the spacers.
So I have stock oil quantity but 15w instead of 10w. I have stock 162mm air gap, and I have 10mm less spacer. (less preload).
I remeasured the sag using L1- [(L2+L3) /2] and its now 36mm. As mentioned I have slipped the forks through the clamps by 5mm. Haven't ridden it yet because this is Wales and it wet and dirty!
It was already better but I'm definitely in the ball park now for pre-load, and hoping your oil recommendation of Bel-Ray and 15w weight just gives me a bit more grip as it was clattering up and down before I started.
Think I'm going to prize my credit card out and buy a proper rear shock. I've been recommended to buy a Wilbers but they are a tad over priced. So its between a K-tech Maxton, or Nitron. All around £450 to £490. Any thoughts. Thanks Bill
Hi Bill. Excellent post on the forks and thanks for sharing the details so all understand how you are doing this so they can have a go themselves. Nitron would be my personal choice based on value, fit and finish, durability and ROI. If you find you have too much brake dive, change the oil level to 140mm, then 120mm without changing viscosity.
@@catalystreactionsbw thanks dave. Nitron prices go up 6% Jan 1st apparently so I'd better make my move. Roger that on dive by adding a bit more oil. I'm learning here on your site. Never too old! Thanks
@@billslater412 Agreed Bill, never too old :)
My 2016 Yamaha FZ-07 had 1" of much at the top of the forks.. front suspension is rather squirrely when riding aggressively ..
This truly awesome to see someone share a video that’s so informative and helpful Very well detailed and inspiring
Thank you - I'm glad you enjoyed and learned from it.
Dave, keep the the great content coming. Thank you. Does this go for the 2020 MT 07 as well?
check static sag. If there s less than 15mm, yes .
ua-cam.com/video/s91qcAXWKpI/v-deo.html
a pleasure seen Dave Moss work !!!
Yamaha as Yamaha have to approve the performance of any part from any supplier. The supplier would gladly supply higher spec forks but it’s built to a price above all.
If they Specc’ed a part and the supplier has been supplying a out of spec part then it is still on Yamaha to call them out and correct it after all these years
Dave, you are really good with that up and down motion lol
Some where in new Zealand then cold weather in Wellington
I don’t even own an MT-07 but what a fascinating video!
With gear, I weigh at least 110 KG. Should I use 20W oil instead of 15W in my 2017 FZ-07?
I'v been ridning for a week now with yamalube 15-weight and 425ml. I 'm really happy with that. I weigh 95kg with gear and The fork marker 15mm from rock bottom and I like a frisky ride 😁
Planning to do this exact setup this coming weekend.
waiting on a proper pipe cutter...
Based on what you've said about these forks I am planning to use 20w fork oil and start with 10mm off the spacer and check for static sag. Then raise the forks 8mm.
Very excited for this as we are on "lockdown" here in San Diego and i love working on my vehicles.
Did you get a chance to adjust your forks yet?
i own a 2017, luv the bike but imo yamaha knew they screwed up the design. the bike is an accidental wheelie machine and not in a good way. probably the rear swing arm is a lil short but look at their attempted cure the symptoms not the disease.
1. front suspension extra soft to prevent damage from coming down too hard.
2.extra long throttle arc in an attempt to limit the accidental wheelie.
3. extra strong engine braking via the ECU to keep people from going over backwards
4. mushy handle bar mounts to prevent damage from coming down too hard.
5. comes from the factory with the least grippy tires available. seriously i thought they were made out of hard plastic.
dont get me wrong i love the bike but its super light, super tourquey, and the wheel base is a lil short. its advertised as a good beginner bike. imo its much more an intermediate bike. with the right mods, good tires, exhaust/intake/ECU flash, suspension, it quickly becomes an expert bike.
it is so light its almost like riding a dirt bike in the how easy it is to throw around and how quickly it reacts to the throttle. but the bike will wheelie at the worst times and if your not gentle enuff on the throttle its very easy to go too high. heart, thump thump thump. because the suspension is so soft with grippy tires(metzler m7) the bike becomes very easy to accidentally stoppie or endo right over. which i cant wait to try the above videoas tactics to my forks
before anyone rides one especially a modded one learn to apply the throttle gently and definitely practice some panic stops on a hot day with warm tires. its a very very fun bike but it will stoppie and wheelie from time to time whether your ready/have enuff road or not.
sorry for going long thanks for the vid suspension/tires should be the first mod.
I think the throttle arc and the suspension being soft was they were anticipating brand new riders or riders who aren't that experienced, and women looking to get into riding by getting that as their first bike. A 125 can get away from somebody new easily because when they get that lurch when they're not smooth with the clutch makes them unintentionally give too much throttle. I don't think they screwed up as much as they went cheap and cautious.
love to see dave work on bikes.
Hi Dave, welcome home back down under. Will the same thing work on a 2014-2019 VFR800f?
Thanks, stay safe.
On my VFR800 the spacer was not an issue. I used 15w for my forks due to the weight of the ride and load combined at 260lbs. If you/load will be lighter use 10w to the same volume as the manual requires or that you extract from the fork via the dump and run process: ua-cam.com/video/UoIQNcxqaSA/v-deo.html
@@catalystreactionsbw will do, your insight into the workings of the relationship between, bike, suspension tyre (tire) road and rider presented in a format and language that numpties like me can understand and use is really appreciated. Thank you again.
@@ya33a Thanks for being interested and then starting your journey on making changes.
The Yamaha shops here in Scandinavia (tried both Norway and Sweden) didn't want to shorten the spacers, so I did it myself. Cut the spacers 10 mm and added 15 W oil.
Feeling a lot more confident on this bike now than ever before. Not sure how much difference it would make if I had shortened the spacers 15 mm instead of 10 mm. I am happy with 10 mm.
Thank you very much for sharing what you did and the improvement it created.
Wow, I think I heard you say this might not be Yamaha’s fault, but whoever manufactured the suspension?
That’s a scary thought on a couple of levels...
You would think that Yamaha would design the suspension based around how they want this entire suspension setup (might be used on more of their motorcycles than just the 07/09) to perform.
Are you saying that there is zero R&D at the design stage, or testing at the prototype stage to ensure that all the parts are operating the way they where intended to, or that there is no quality control checks of third party supplied parts?
This is Yamaha’s fault regardless of whether they build the part or do not. Their name is on the bike.....
If you buy suspension components from a third party, you get what you get unless you tell them what to build. We have no idea how that works with any OEM and parts supplier (suspension in this case). We also do not know if test riders have any input to the final showroom suspension geometry and settings, nor who signs off on the build prior to production. So much we will never know, so it is important to ask these questions in the hope information may be shared. If you never ask, you never know.
Dave Moss Tuning - Thanks for taking the time to reply to my comment Dave, I know that you are an extremely busy guy.
If what you are implying is true then eventually this is going to catch up with Yamaha.
You take this issue, the R3 rear suspension being a toss away after you buy the bike, The R6 and R3 starting issues that seem to have no real resolution, etc, and you start to slowly tarnish the brand.
There is also Legal liability that comes into play, and Yamaha will not be able to point fingers at a third party if something goes wrong because of a flawed design.
I get that these days, profit comes before everything, but that is so short sighted because as you tarnish a name, your potential customers start to look elsewhere, and that profit goes with them.
Your last point is a fair comment for if you trust your suppliers too much then the likely result is eventually they get slack & then trash your reputation ! Many places are happy with doing quality control on 10%. Considering that screw ups on motorbikes can so easily lead to your customers death anything less than 100% quality control just isn't good enough !
It's Yamaha proprietary SHOWA fork I believe. SHOWA uses 'strawberry red' colored oil, BelRay uses green, K-Tech clear etc. Yamaha goes to a major suspension manufacturing company be it Kayaba, Ohlins, SHOWA, etc and gets a cost on building a fork to their specs, price point etc..in other words 'proprietary' Most are junk, like the SHOWA forks on my Ducati ...some are better. Even if the motorcycle you buy comes with Ohlins, it's most always Yamaha proprietary Ohlins, not true aftermarket stuff. The gap between a Yamaha, Honda, Ducati proprietary Ohlins could be miles away from an aftermarket Ohlins for the same model. My Ducati 999 aftermarket Ohlins came with a massive CNC'd lower triple clamp, other up spec parts vs the Ohlins that comes with the Duc999S from the factory. IMO always better to buy your motorcycle with basic, standard, base suspension,... then go out and buy aftermarket stuff,. Very few models come with Ohlins 'good stuff' off the showroom floor
Hi Dave, thanks for this video, the best one on improving the FZ-07/MT-07 there is. Especially after I've experienced the pogo stick effect on my 2016 FZ-07 a few times (which was both very unnerving and scary).
I've looked at your comments and you've provided two different answers for a person who is 200 lbs (90 kg). I'm currently at 90 kg but I'm aiming to get back to 75 kg so I can do triathlons, half-marathons and 10K trail runs again. I do both commuting and light touring on my 2016 FZ-07 (usually with 10 kg of luggage on the rear). I don't race nor do wheelies. My preference would be high speed stability (since the few times I've been at 80-90 MPH it has seemed a little sketchy).
Can you please tell me which answer is correct as of today (Sept 11, 2022), especially for a rider looking to lose weight. Also, it seems air gap is the better measurement to use, no?
Thank you very much!
Answer #1 - Reduce spacer length to 135 mm, 20W fork oil, 8 mm offset, 120 mm air gap
Answer #2 - Reduce spacer length to 140 mm, 20W fork oil, 8 mm offset, 400 ml of fork oil (I'm not sure what this means in terms of air gap though)
Thanks for your kind words. Based on ability and speeds, there will be different recommendations for a given weight range. Oil height is based on air spring effect (separate video) so starting with a lower oil height may be very helpful. In your case given your speeds and use at 75kg it would be 140mm spacer, 15w oil, 130mm air gap, 8mm fork offset
love the tipps dave. If I change the fork springs for öhlins ones, do I still need to do the exactly same thing or is it fixed?
Measure the Ohlins spring against the stock spring. If it is 15mm shorter, all is good - just the oil viscosity change.
Dave, first of all thank you for what you do for all the bikers out there
I have a 2016 Yamaha FZ09 and I was wondering if I lowered the front handlebars on the fork will the bike handle better on cornering
Now go change that dead front tire also.
What a video! Thanks. ALOT! For us perfectionists, remember to empty & fill each side when the barometric pressure is about the same - not a day before/after a storm front passes. 😉
9:19 when he said you need to change the oil 3k-5k kilometers I was is shock, I've got friends with 40k kilometers on their bike that never did any thing to their shocks and they commute on their bikes every day.....
Refael Ililov lol my "friends" too....
Damping rod forks have no control over rebound at all. Once the oil breaks down enough to create multiple fork bounces, tire wear is accelerated by 20-30%. That being the case with fork oil being much cheaper than tires, would you replace the fork oil?
For those that have 40k on fork oil, open the fork cap and stand back otherwise the smell will be physically painful. Once removed, let the oil settle out for a couple of weeks and see how much metal is in the oil. Also, run your hand around the circumference of the front tire and see that it is not at all round, then do the same edge to edge.
@@catalystreactionsbw yeh your right but to change oil on the front fork require alot of time and effort, and if you want to do it in shop you need to dump a hefty amount of money so it depends....
@@refaelililov8953 One hour maximum on time. If I do the job $80 to remove and replace the forks and $150 for the fork service including oil.
I always find fork maintenance and adjustment strangely satisfying. At 6' 3" and 220lb, all of my bikes have benefitted from some extra damping, and usually a stiffer progressive spring...
dave cracked me up when he's tipping out the old oil.. "disgusting" hahaha
Thank you for posting this! So many of us have these bikes and are trying to survive its horrible stock setup...
Would you recommend this for the 2018 model also? I was told the suspension was "revised"
Check the static sag in the 2018 fork. If you have 25-30mm, the spacer is fine. If not, then the issue is present: ua-cam.com/video/w8EZfxyeZUY/v-deo.html
Dave makes great videos ! Cheers from Malaysia Mate ! Keep up the videos !
Hi Dave, my girlfriends mt07 is lowerd (with shorter springs) can i do this?
Thanks.
How much unloaded/ loaded sug is got now in mm it shod be around 10/30 mm for normal riding
Thanks, will definitely do it this winter. Servicing every 3k miles sounds ridiculous thought, it would be every year for me.
Depends how fast you go and with no adjustments, is it worth a bottle of fork oil and some time to have your motorcycle planted and on rails all the time? Your bike, your budget, your priorities.
Thanks, Dave! changed my fork oil out last week. what a difference!!! Just sharing my experience here, hope would help out a little. I weight about 105KG with full gear and filled 400ml Ipone fork oil 20w, viscosity 83.1@40C. measured the installed preload at 18mm. 23mm static sag. my bike is 2018 MT07 Australian LAMS model done 11k, so I think Yamaha revised their spacer for post 18 models? will need Dave to verify that. the bike rides so much more stable now. I found the front is a little bit stiff for my commute use but awesome for twisties. I might try thinner 20w fork oil next time.
Brilliant, thanks for sharing and inspiring others to not be fearful and make the effort!!!
@@catalystreactionsbw Much appreciated, Dave! just have a question about the geometry change here, I assume the +8mm is determined by the sag, not the fork oil viscosity right? I got total sag of 36mm front (23mm static & 13mm rider) and 40mm rear (stock preload setting, somehow 2018 model there is no static sag for rear). would the +8mm still works for me?
@@shyou7533 The geometry change was preferred by the rider and confirmed via travel used as he commuted on the bike.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks again, Dave! start trying +4mm and experiment from there.
is the 13mm front rider sag ok? although there is 23mm static. Would you recommend cutting preload spacer to achieve the 30mm rider sag?
I have a brand new 2022 and so far have not noticed an issue with the suspension on city roads or mountain roads. I’m 165lbs
Maybe it’s been changed in the 2022? Seems if it’s an issue this big Yamaha would have a class action law suit or a recall on all bikes if this is dangerous???
That intro! This guy could be reading a Motorcycle Bible on discovery channel with a voice like that! Very informative video, subscribed :)
Thank you for subscribing. I am sure you will enjoy learning from the huge library of content here!
This is so amazing! I could watch this all day long.
Just randomly choosing this video to comment on but have been watching a lot of your videos over the last few days, having just treated myself to a 2017 Triumph Street Triple R 765, the bike feels very hard for road use, although I do ride enthusiastically and it does stick to the road well, but will be watching more of your suspension videos and definitely using a cable tie to check my travel next time out, thanks for posting such informative videos to keep everyone safer and bikes running to perfection... New subscriber here too!
Thanks for subscribing! The harshness is from a super soft shock compared to stiff forks. Remember to check the shock shaft for travel used.
@@catalystreactionsbw I'd say less than half the travel is being used, but I will do a proper test with a cable tie, that's just based on looking down at the forks and braking hard to test it, but yes the front and rear is set very hard, either by the dealer or from factory.
Hi Dave, would firstly like to thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with everyone, huge respect.
I'm looking to do the fix that you have shared on a 2014 MT07.
What would you recommend for fork oil weight and spacer length for a rider at 50kg? Bike is used mainly as a daily commute.
Thank you
Just bought and Mt07 for the first time. Front end feels very light and no real weight to steering. Knew straight away to look up Dave from adjusting my gsxr600 suspension using his videos.
So if am 175lb, would I use 20w and 135mm spacer? With 8mm drop of forks.
Also what is the correct setting for the rear.
I’m so glad I found your channel Dave! I’m 165lbs, how many millimeters should I trim off my spacers and how much fork oil do you recommend I put in?
Hello Fletcher. 10mm, 15w oil and 400cc of oil.
As usual, informative. Great patience.
Thank you for watching!
Hi Dave. First off thanks for all of your videos! I'm not trying to be critical but I am a bit surprised that you have not invested more in tooling to increase productivity, such as proper wrench size for forks, power ratchets for fasteners, etc... Every tool I have invested in has been worth it's expense in saved labor and time.
Hi Paul. Fair comment. I would love to have 15K in tools and tool boxes but all my income is spent on travel, maintenance, and a bike purchases along with parts acquisition for the testing program - plus video equipment and production.. It would be nice to have a film studio too free of Black Widow spiders, resident mice and bat etc. Cash flow only gives us so much and companies have no interest in sponsoring DMT at all. We male do with what we have.
@@catalystreactionsbw very understandable, I can imagine you're traveling must cost a fortune in itself. And racing sure is not a cheap endeavor. I really hope you weren't offended by my question. I guess it's easy to forget how long it actually took me to acquire the tools that I do have. That has been a lifelong venture. Keep up the great work with the videos I love watching them and gain so much useful information. The bike I have now has a duolever front end on it so I don't have much adjustment options with that suspension setup. It is great at preventing brake dive but is numb. I have adjusted the rear and see a great difference in the handling of the bike it's a BMW k1200r sport. I hope one day to run into a wrecked sport bike that I can afford to purchase and rebuild and maybe get to a track here and there. Stay safe, your friend Paul.
@@PaulPhillipsFix Not at all - I would love to have an official set with life time warranty tools that meet the highest standard. Try to find a used set of Elka shocks for the 1200R. Make sure you service them prior to installation. It will transform the handling.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks Dave. I wrote Elka to get info on the shocks that would fit, also wrote wilbersusa.com/ as well. I'm sure it would make a tremendous difference to have an adjustable setup up front. The spring rates seem well suited for me as it is. Thanks again Dave, be well. I look forward to improving the performance on this bike, Paul
Fantastic video, I watched it all. Thank you 👊
Greatly edjucating videos, thank you! now feeling even more confident to do a job like this at home without a mechanic.
Πως πήγε αδερφέ το δικό μου το πηγα στο μηχανικό μου μια ώρα δουλειά 70€ και το μηχανάκι χιλιόμετρα καλύτερο
This is excellent, I’d guess 99% of us do jobs like this in our garage with what we have around.
Just ace 👍
when i replaced my xt660x fork oil it was a metallic silver. I don't think in 20k it was ever changed. Did a flush with cheap fork oil then new motorex oil, seals and springs. Made a nice improvement.
I used 425 ml oil in mine, 20 wt Bel Ray. I also raised the forks 8 mm as well. I trimmed 1/2" off the spacer with a hack saw. I also taped the outside of the tube to make it accurate, marking my line with a marker on the tape.
Are you happy with it? Way better in the twisties?
First off, awesome video. Question. I have a 2011 Fz8, would I benefit from doing something similar? Thank you in advance.
Thank you!~ Yes, for the forks absolutely. If you have the stock forks, change the oil to 10w to the same volume as you remove: ua-cam.com/video/UoIQNcxqaSA/v-deo.html
Main issue with pre-2013 FZ8s is very soft shock (8kg), bike is like a chopper from the factory
Following your advice, shortened internal spacer by 12mm (I weigh 179 pounds UK); to reduce the sharp upper edge cutting into the fork alloy top cap, inserted a 2mm thick hard laser-cut stainless washer on top of the spacer, to stop it digging into the alloy. Hopefully this will also reduce the amount of alloy particles people find when changing the fork oil? Got a 2023 bike and find no matter how low the rear shock is adjusted, it shows zero static sag. Perhaps Yamaha went for harder springing when doing the 2018 upgrade,
It is a soft spring on the rear shock that is long, so it is under a lot of preload from the minimum setting. A spring replacement will fix that. Yes, washers on the top and bottom of the preload spacer help if you did not deburr the spacer post trimming.
Just brilliant thank you Dave & Ray 👍
This gives me the confidence to finally take care of this. However I’m having trouble sourcing the shorter spacers. Who manufactures those spacers?
We trim the OEM spacer with a pipe cutter and use a round file to take the burrs away.
@@catalystreactionsbw My mistake, I thought those were aftermarket spacers. Cheers
Cut the spacers, put 20w oil in and Ohlins progressive springs with adjustable pre-loaders and dropped the forks in the yolk 10mm- what a difference! It actually steers and rides quite well now when pushed to 80%. Added Mitchellin Pilot Sport 3 tyres and sintered pads with YSS rear shock- the bike it should have been originally (at a cost).
Thanks for sharing your work and settings as well as the final experience Jayne. You comments will inspire 100's to get the work done and like you, enjoy the benefits of the changes made!.
Do you recommend raising the forks 8mm after the fix regardless of the rider’s height and weight?
Start with stock, then try 2,4, 6 and 8mm to see what you prefer.
Thank you sir just waiting on you to work on a 2018 to 2020 model since I just bought a '19. I'm still curious with the revised suspension and whatnot needs done. I know for a fact dif oil but not sure about the spacer, I leave it for you to tell me since you are the professional. 6ft almost 160 ibs Much love from the states! 🤙🏍
As we like many other Counties are on lock down due to C19, Yamaha dealers are closed so I cannot inspect one. You can spend 10 seconds on your own bike. If you have less than 20-30mm of static sag, the spacer is too long. ua-cam.com/video/w8EZfxyeZUY/v-deo.html If the oil is different, check front tire wear to see if in fact it is too thin: davemosstuning.com/?s=rebound
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you for the tips it seems a little better than the first model but maybe a tad off the spacer wouldn't hurt il have to measure the sag myself tomorrow as it's dark right now to know forsure. And yes this covid 19 is a mess in every place that's heavily populated aka everywhere I hope u stay safe and everyone for that matter one more question since the rear shock now has preload and rebound adjustment should I still change it out every 5 to 10 k miles or is it good for awhile
@@monty-9269 If you scroll through the comments you will see that a viewer confirmed the 2018-2020 has the same issue with static sag so the spacer is the same. I do not know about oil viscosity yet.
@@catalystreactionsbw I figured the front would still need work just from riding on the twisty roads it's noticeable when you start pushing the bike but I'm still thankful they revised the rear because now I can adjust rebound and preload I'm thinking it will be a peach of a bike with just a tad bit of work to the front forks. Thank you for getting back to me again.
@@monty-9269 With the work done, it will be a brilliant bike. I love it for around town etc as it is so light and the engine is a gem.
Let’s just hope they finally fix the problem in 2021
hi dave, thank you for sharing. any reason you didnt use oil level height?
Does a 2016 MT 07 got this problem too? Can you take out the spacers without removing the forks from the bike and cut/swap them out? I wanted to get it as my first bike as I just have enough cash to get one, but I don't have enough to replace the spacers. If I let a garage do it for me, It would probaly cost me 500 euro's extra. I'm not to confident to do it myself since I'l probally have screws left and need duck tape after i'm done putting the bike to together.
Great video. What is the internal dimension of the tubes? So I can get some cut up before I pull mine apart.
already posted: For the OEM spacer: measurements supplied are 150mm long and OD - 33.9mm
ID - 31.3mm
Hello, I recently did this to my bike and while reinstalling everything I remembered a video of you showing how to straighten your forks and alignment of the brake calipers. You didn't do this step in this video and I was wondering if it was just due to it being a quick video or if it isn't necessary?
Due to video length we did not include it in the video. Great catch! I do this procedure every time I change the wheel or clean the calipers.
great video, heck this little trick might be the fix for the nija650r forks too
Great service! Do we need to do it for mt07 tracer?
Fork oil change to heavier viscosity, yes.
hello Dave,
I just purchased a 2021 mt07 used with 4,180 km. I assume that this is still an issue on the 2021 mt07 because when I brake, I go into a nose dive, and then it bounces a lot.
Summarizing your steps, is this all I have to do?
1. Shorten the spacer to 140mm, from 150mm (factory).
2. Put 15w or 20w oil. Which one should I do? I weight 82kg.
Can I or should I put 403mL of oil like you show here, regardless of the viscosity of oil?
3. Set the forks 8mm up.
thanks
A perfect afternoon project, and by the way, I loved the Gong Show. Yes, the fork oil arena is an odd one. The function being primarily hydraulic in nature it gets away from the relative tidyness of API & SAE realm motor oils. I suspect you have to be a chemical engineer to parse the how and why.
Best sources for spacers?
I cut down the OEM spacer. Did not need to spend more money. Many people have been generous compiling fork oil viscosity charts also a quick Google search yields excellent data.
Love him because he mostly work with Yamaha. Have two r6r and one mt07. Thanks for the videos! Need more likes and followers!
Thanks for clarifying "aluminum" for us Americans!
I had a 750 Kawa 82 - in 2009 - it bottomed out all the time. Air on top! Cheers
In the 2018 model the suspention was updated, was it fixed or is it the same? Good video!
Fork internal components were the same. Gen 1 was Yamaha 01 fork oil, Gen 2 I cannot find if the oil is different in the fork BUT, many have gone to 15w or 20w with excellent results in the 18-20 models as you can read below in the comments.