The Oathbreakers, The Paths of the Dead | Tolkien Explained
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- The Oathbreakers, the Forgotten, the Dead Men of Dunharrow - these former men of the White Mountains have many names. Today, we trace their history from their beginnings as Second Age worshippers of Sauron to their cursed lives as wraiths in the mountains - doomed to never rest in peace, until the heir of Isildur should call on them once more.
Hit subscribe - and the bell - so you never miss a video from Nerd of the Rings!
Support the channel on PATREON: / nerdoftherings
--------------
All content falls under fair use: any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and “transformative” purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner.
Oathbreakers, Why Have Ye Come - Abe Papakhi
Army of the Dead - Samarskiy
The Fleet of Harad - Darrell Sweet
Dunlending Captain - JLazarusEB
The Oath - Gianna Michele Kaye
Halbarad - Elena Kukanova
Warden of Helms Deep - Jarreau Wimberly
Entrance to the Paths of the Dead - John Howe
The Paths of the Dead - John Howe
Aragorn & The King of the Dead - Vanderstelt
Erech - Matěj Čadil
Oathbreaker - Smarskiy
Passing of the Grey Company - Jei Wo
Pelargir - Aegeri
Vale of Erech - Rob Alexander
The Stone of Erech - Anke Eissman
The King of the Oathbreakers - Ted Nasmith
#pathsofthedead #lordoftherings #tolkien
Fun Fact: Aragorn and company find the remains of a golden-clad knight in the Paths of the Dead in 3019. This is believed to be Baldor, the prince of Rohan who died in 2970 after passing the Dark Door.
If you want to score some exclusive NOTR perks, check out www.patreon.com/NerdoftheRings
*Aragorn and the Grey Company.
Can I ask where you get this info? I’m looking for books that I can read that explain these things and I’m not sure where to start. Any tips or books you know of so I can dive deeper into Middle Earth I would be very grateful!
@@sampappas212 Read up on the Notes from Tolkien's Unfinished Tales.
Totally! Much of this comes from ROTK and the appendices afterwards. Unfinished Tales has a lot of great stuff on a variety of Middle-earth characters as well. Beyond that, there’s The Silmarillion and the History of Middle-earth series - although HoMe is a bit more academic.
@@NerdoftheRings Hehe I noticed you haven't edited regarding my comment about the Grey Company.
"Bad idea. Very handy in a tight spot, these lads, despite the fact they're dead." - Gimli.
"You gave us your word!."
- Ghost King
“I hold your oath fulfilled. Go. Be in peace.”
"fuck"
I probably would've asked if any of the dead soldiers wanted to hang around a while longer and earn some extra afterlife points by helping the new king, then I would've released the rest of them.
@@deusexaethera would have been too one sided lmao
Sauron would be like: "oh fuck..."
I'm liking Nerds very much these days.
*Oathbreakers are people who've only seen the movies but never read the books.*
@Mark Kruda *I did suggest to just chuck the ring into that Rohirrim princess' pot of stew. Even Sauron wouldnt touch that woman's cooking but no one wants to listen to my ideas.*
The Jackson trilogy is still an amazing adaptation
I love your vids! Can you pls tell me whats the music you used in your video?
Thanks! I'd have to get back to my computer and the working files to tell you specific tracks, but I license a good amount of my music through Artlist.
@@NerdoftheRings Thank you for your answer. Would love to listen to your tracks. Especially one where it was last of your video. You have used it on alot of your vids. Its so heroic love that
@@NerdoftheRings Hey, I've tried to find it on my own but no luck. Do you know what the track playing around 3:30 is? I appreciate it!
This is great content! If I could add anything to it is for you to draw a comparison to how the movie producers changed the original stories to make it fit. This is coming from someone who hasn’t read the books
This is way better than in the movies.
This title sounds like Pillars of Eternity and the oathbinder that is wodica
Whats that stone though? Why did they save it and put it there?
Must've been a real bummer, hauling a six feet rock not just from your sunken island but all the way up a mountain only to have some guys swear an oath on it who were gonna betray you afterwards anyway.
I know, when I was reading that I just imagine what the other guys were thinking,.
Numenorians: Oh there’s Elendil with the Palantir, then there’s his son....... with a giant black stone, why?
I mean .. they knew they were to break their oath to them anyway, so they forged them into a secret weapon for later use. Otherwise the whole endeavour would really have been overkill. These Numenoreans had to be sly or they wouldn't have survived in Númenor while Sauron was there in the flesh.
That definitely sucks
Heavy is the head, you know.
Well some persons take seriously an oath!! Some persons just have their word !!
My friend promised me he would help me build my new garden shed, but when the time came he never showed up, so I laid the same curse upon him 👿
🤣🤣🤣🤣😵
So funny..
My buddy promised me that he would help me replace my engine mounts after I moved about 1000lbs of his tools in my truck. He took 4 hours after I arrived at his place to get up and help me and by that time it was hot as fuck with the sun setting and he only helped me get two bolts loose and when he was wrong about how hard it was gonna be (I asked him if we were gonna need to remove my coil springs and he insisted we wouldn't, well guess we needed to) he told me it was my problem. Not to mention he was yelling at me for no reason all day. I don't need to curse him because I know he is doomed to be a loser anyway though.
@@SpencerLemay plot twist. It was actually your friends neighbor 😉
He is cursed with being an unpaid farm hand for Farmer Maggot.
As much as the books are superior, I absolutely love the scene in the movie where Aragorn recruits the dead. Him grabbing the King of the Dead by the throat and threatening him with Anduril gets me every time. The King is surprised, and actually afraid! I mean, what's Aragorn gonna do, kill him? It's such a ballsy move, to threaten a ghost.
It's Aragorn's block with his sword that scares him because until then the king felt invincible.
"The Dead are following," said Legolas. "I see shapes of Men and of horses, and pale banners like shreds of cloud, and spears like winter-thickets on a misty night. The Dead are following."
Why did Isildur curse the horses too? Poor horses.
🤣🤣🤣 That’s a great point! What did the horses ever do to him?!
A Horse rider is seen as one with their horse in many cultures... maybe it is the same in this case.
They were hoofbreakers
@@EstebanGaeteFlores lol
@Gordon Fornow Glorious! :D
"He tried to take the Ring from Frodo! After swearing an oath to protect him, he tried to kill him! The Ring drove your brother mad!"
Oaths have power
this is why Faramir was so shaken by Sam's words
I might be wrong here, but I don't remember Sam saying that line in the books. In the books, Faramir immediately lets Frodo go after learning about his mission and even warns him about an evil that lurks in the passages of Cirith Ungol.
@@antondavidovic3996 it's a line from the movie. Frodo and Sam at first didn't tell Faramir what happened to Boromir. Boromir's betrayal shocked Frodo a lot in the movies so they didn't think they could trust telling anyone they were going to Mordor. Sam eventually fed up with Faramir told him in frustration what happened.
@@shinon748 faramir was a good man. Hated how he was treated
and a good reason why Rohan *never* broke their oath with Gondor. Imagine damning your people to become ghost-riders of Middle-Earth because you're too scared to help Gondor in their hour of need.
@@MarvinT0606 the red arrow aint no slouch neither
Jackson reportedly hated the army of the dead but felt he had to include them or the fans would be unhappy. It does make you wonder, however. If he hated the army of the dead, then why did he expand their role so much in the film?
I always felt that the film version seriously cheapened the battle of Minas Tirith. The good guys suddenly have access to an army of unkillable ghost soldiers that completely destroys the entire enemy force in moments. Which is not what happens in the book.
its a movie relax
its a fun adaptation, but it is one of the less realistic parts for sure. Im thinking jackson didnt want to add a whole group of new people in the peoples of Dol Amroth and Prince Imrahil... perhaps that would have caused more confusion to more casual viewers. i for one missed the inclusion of the wall and the silver swans
Maybe he did it in a sarcastic way like "oh you want the ghost army well here have the ghost they'll do everything"
It’s the only scene in the trilogy that I dislike 😢 was always crying out for an edit.
@@mamba101 I had a few more qualms with the trilogy than you, I think, but the army of the dead was the very worst thing about it by a mile.
"'Now hear the words of the heir of Isildur: Your oath is fulfilled! Go back and trouble not the valleys ever again! Depart and be at rest.'"
"The King of the Dead steps forward, breaks his spear, and casts it down. He then bows to Aragorn. He turns away, and the entire army of the dead men vanishes, like a mist driven back by a sudden wind -- except for one last soldier, who empties upon the shore a ghostly bag full of all the socks that had ever gone missing in Middle Earth. Then he too vanishes, leaving behind only the sound of distant laughter, and the stench of a million sweaty feet."
LOL now that's funny. So the guy with the all stolen/missing underwear took it with him then.
so fricking funny wow hilarious .....
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie
LOL why is this so funny?!?!
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
"And when all this land is clean of the servants of Sauron, i will hold the oath fufilled"
Left over orcs after Sauron's death: o_o
Maaan... your channel is criminally underrated. I was lucky enough to find it recently but I feel sad that others haven't because youtube is so bad at sharing good content
So glad you like the channel! I’ve been under the radar for a while, it seems. UA-cam is liking me recently, though! I’ve gained almost half of my subscribers in the past two weeks (almost 1,000 just yesterday alone!)
Needless to say, it’s been a fun couple weeks! 😁 Glad you found me and hopefully we’ll have many more join soon!
@@NerdoftheRings So glad to hear of your recent success!
YT suddenly recommended your channel as well. Glad to hear of your recent succes :)
"The Way is Shut. The dead do not suffer the living to pass.
It was made by those who are dead, and the dead keep it.....
The Way is Shut!"
Still gives me chills to this day.....
"Brego! I do not fear death." Aragon walked with a steely resolve followed by Legolas.
"Well this is a thing unheard of... an elf goes underground when a dwarf dare not. Oh! I'd never hear the end of it."
@@TheLatiosnlatias02 One of the best scenes of the entire trilogy😊
I quote this line all the time
..... doesn't sound like something Jerry Garcia would say to 40,000 Deadheads......not in my opinion.
You will suffer me!
"Oathbreakers why have you come ?"
"To fulfill our oath and have peace ".
Love this part of the book.
"Oathbreakers why you have come?" -Aragorn
"You called us duuhhh!?" -King of the dead
Interesting topics and great presentation.
Thanks for watching!
Brego and Baldor explored the valley of Harrowdale seeking a refuge for their people. There they found the Dark Door leading to the Paths of the Dead. It is said that an ancient man was sitting before the door. When Brego and Baldor tried to pass him, the old man said: "The way is shut. It was made by those who are Dead, and the Dead keep it, until the time comes." Baldor replied, "And when will that time be?" but the old man died without answering. I love THIS passage. Imagine being Baldor.
How do you know this? What's your source? I'm really curious...
@@peterchristensen2528 LotR, The Return of the King, I don't remember chapter.
I guessing in the books, Brego isn't a horse?
@@Oli-Johnson Nope. Can't remember his roll, only that he was from Rohan. Not sure why they used the name for the horse.
I like to believe that old man was the very last of the men of the mountain.
I just found this channel today & I'm loving it so much. I'm a big LOTR fan & you have a new SUBSCRIBER bro
Welcome! So glad you found the channel!
As someone who has only seen the Jackson films and not read the books, I really like the book version of this better than the film version. In the film, there seems to be no ambiguity about whether the dead can actually cause bodily harm to living beings, as they just charge into Minas Tirith and clean it out in one fell swoop. They're basically just overpowered unkillable super soldiers.
But in the book version (as I understand it from this video) it's not made clear if they would actually be able to kill the corsairs directly, but instead it's merely their fearsome aura that drives them away without a need for direct combat. I like it because it means the ghosts aren't overpowered, they have to use particular tactics unique to them in order to be successful, which makes them very effective if used right but they likely wouldn't have been of much use against the organized forces of Sauron at Minas Tirith.
Perhaps they could have been used to fight the 9 in the wraith world. If not useful in any other way.
Oh i understood quite the oposite, that they are so op that they dont even need to use their sword.
Dad always had troubles with the scene of the ghost army wiping out the orcs at Minas Tirith because, to him, it was like they were taking the Rohirrim's thunder. Jackson had stacked the odds so high against the horsemen, with the long line of Mumakil. But you have to see it from a movie production's perspective. They need to give hope, then snatch it away again. Sometimes multiple times. Some things work in books, but not movies: the ghosts needed to have the ability to hew and slash in order to kill the Mumakil, which would have decimated the Rohirrim. Jackson could have had fewer Mumakil, or made them smaller and easier to kill, but that wouldn't have nearly the same affect on a viewer.
Do yourself a favor and read the books. You won't be disappointed. I'm 51 and have probably read them 10 times over the course of my life. The first time was when I was in my single digits.
I greatly prefer them as overpowered unkillable super soldiers. I think pacing wise, the good guys needed an easy win at some point in the trilogy. Everything being a hard fought, uphill battle for so long eventually became exhausting and was starting to become boring.
If you're ever doing a story that involves several long, drawn out battle, you NEED a moment where the good guys pull out an instant win trump card.
This makes a lot more sense than the depiction in the movies. I always thought "why didn't they call on them sooner? So many lives wasted at the battle of Minas Tirith." But here it shows us, that they weren't even present at the actual battle, but only fighting the corsairs at the port.
That's actually my second biggest problem with the movies, I feel that the way Jackson did it cheapens the victory. Number one ofc is the way he treats the Hobbits, completely skipping The Reckoning of the Shire . . .
Yeah, that was an immediate disappointment when watching the movie back when it released. The spirits in the books more frightened than fought, but suddenly were this OP trumph card in the movie. However I came to terms with it; imagine the run time of Return of the King if they would have had to somehow let the battle play out to a convincing victory without them.
Edit: It was a necessity for reducing the plot lenght.
@@martinb4272 yup, I realize that would have added an extra hour to the movie, at least they didn't have them go to the black gate too
Really?
To me they went as quickly as they could but they had serious doubts it was going to work.
He does still arrive at the Pelennor Fields with an army, but it's an army of soldiers of Gondor he collected on his way up the river from the Pelargir. That combined with the shock of the enemy finding out their expected reinforcements are gone is what turns the battle against them.
This is why you always keep your word.
Awesome job on the video, and your Wight impression was spot on! Lol
Nice video, and Happy Halloween!
Thanks so much! I went through a couple different voices for the dead. I think I settled on the right one. :)
I agree, unless keeping you oath will do more harm than good. Even at risk of you own peace and eternal rest.
Sweet. This arc of the story is always in danger of being unappreciated. Oaths have Power !!!!
They do so in real life too, if you are in a position of great power. As breaking an oath made at that point is equal to personal ruin of which none will ever recover. Oaths in Tolkiens world is really just a message to us irl mortals that we must always keep what we promise to do or we become everything else than what we should have been. Essentially the closest we get to being wraiths
Lol every time I pay off a lunch to my coworker I always say "I have fulfilled my oath, YOU MUST REALEASE ME". Always gets a good laugh. Also, one of my favorite parts of LOTR movies.
I'm a little jealous of Tolkien's characters, everyone and everything seems so well travelled, on the other hand the farthest I've been so far was in my neighbor state 😅.
Far too tempted to make a reference to Sam being the furthest from the Shire he’s even beeeen
Well make the journey to the furthest point you’ve been so far and when you reach it don’t stop. As long as you have transportation travel isn’t that difficult
You can always travel far in time and place in books. But I have to tell you - having travelled in dozens of different countries - it is worth seeing new places and other cultures, if that ever becomes possible.
Yeah, money and obligations really put a damper on travel. Life's still good though.
Time for a road trip?
The Dead Men of Dunharrow really grew on me after i noticed that they're inspired by the mythological motif of the King under the Mountain who shall return to aid his kingdom in the of need or in the Apocalypse.
We have one of those. His petrified body was replaced by a concrete replica a few decades ago, unclear if the magic transferred or remained with the original stone, I guess we won't see until he rises from either form.
That sounds like Wulfharth the Underking from Elder Scrolls lore.
That be Frederick Barbarossa, in our world
@@riograndedosulball248 there're some more (although I think Dunharrow is not strongly resembling the motif) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_asleep_in_mountain
Alexander
I am forever impressed with the magnanimity of Aragorn. No chastisement, no belittling, just straight-forward questions and announcements. He is ever mindful of his own destiny (contrary to Jackson's interpretation of him in FOTR), but also mindful of the needs of others and of the importance of holding others accountable per their oaths, never forgetting that he, too, has oaths to keep. There is a great deal to learn from the leadership of Aragorn.
I have an idea for a video: Travels of the one ring done in a fashion of other travels videos. Thanks if read.
I love this idea! I’m going to add it to my list right now!
@@NerdoftheRings Can you do the same with the Silmarils? They are arguably the most vital objects in the history of Arda.
Why did Aragon free them of their oath so early? "Say you dead boys are pretty useful! What's say we go storm Mordor before I let you go home?!!"
Because he's honorable, not a greedy opportunist.
you can ask much, but not too much. Would you risk it, dealing with fucking wraiths in a fucking army?
Except the Oath clearly states ALL minions of Sauron no longer plague the land. Meaning it would not have been an over extension, nor greedy, for Aragorn to keep the Oathbreakers for the duration of the war (until Sauron's confirmed demise). The wraiths may have been able to slay Aragorn out of frustration, but that would only have continued their curse. With no foreseeable end in sight. Which they did not want. Thus, there was no reason for them to turn on Aragorn. They had everything to gain and everything to lose.
@@DarkAshenfall I'm glad someone read the fine print! haha nice job!
@@singvang1247 Thanks. I've noticed people tend to not thoroughly read things, which leads to incomplete opinions. Just trying to clarify.
It's cool that this passage was also in the extended version of the RotK film... To me, one of the best moments of Legolas in the film trilogy: "Who shall call them from the grey twilight, the forgotten people? The heir of him to whom the oath they swore. From the North shall he come, need shall drive him: he shall pass the Door to the Paths of the Dead."
I really REALLY appreciated that Jackson made as much effort as he did to include such lines from the book. 👍 Doesn't forgive how he changed the role of the Oathbreakers, but it's another point in his favor
Another excellent, succinct, video! You explain everything so well. I'm already looking forward to the next one.
Thanks, mellon!
I always forget that the movie never even ,mentioned the Grey company
Aannndd....the other king! He lived on the other side of the mountains to Gondor and came to help in the battle.
@@Eowyn3Pride they sailed in with Aragorn, so as undead have taken their place, they have taken them out completely of the equation.
And to correct you, it was not "another king" - it was Dol Amroth and others and were lead by a duke if I remember correctly - they are Gondors province, not separate kingdom at the time
@@siriusczech Ah a duke! Thanks!😁🍻 I think I should read the books again! I've seen the movies too many times and get mixed up between the two!😁🍻🧙♂️
@@Eowyn3Pride He was called Prince of Dol Amroth (the 22nd). His name was Imrahil. And, he would declare allegiance to Aragorn (Elessar). tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Imrahil
@@siriusczech Imrahil was called a duke? I gotta read those again, I thought he was just Lord of Dol Amroth.
Great job! I am always impressed by the level of detail and work you do in the graphics and research. It is always awesome! The maps, the portraits, and the motions all make it so good! Thank you!
Thank you! I'm so glad you enjoy and appreciate the videos I make. It's always great to hear from viewers. Thanks for watching and subscribing!
"Release us, you gave us your word."-Ghost King
"I hold your oath fulfilled. Go, Be at peace."-Aragorn
Imagine if oaths IRL had the same power
We wouldn't need signed written contracts or Lawyers
All that money saved! haha
And your friends will never bail on plans you make with them lol
In a society without police and courts like we have, a persons word is more important.
Your word was your bond, if it became known you didn't stick to it, no one would deal with you, so it was important that people stuck to what they agreed.
People have no honor these days.
Things in the world would be quite different if irl oaths had the same power as the oaths of Tolkien's world :3 yet it would be quite interesting. Some of us in this real life would would become true real life individual oathbreakers
“Well this is unheard of.
An elf would go in the mountain,
While a dwarf dares not?!
Oh,
oh I’ll never hear the end of this.”
But when the dawn came, cold and pale, Aragorn rose at once and he led the Company forth upon the journey of greatest haste and weariness that any among them had known, save he alone, and only his will held them to go on. No other mortal Men could have endured it, none but the Dunedain of the North, and with them Gimli the Dwarf and Legolas of the Elves.
I think Tolkien got the idea of not being granted an afterlife from the Military ethos he endured during WW1, and how it was better to die in battle than to live as a coward.
It is common among most cultures to hold oaths sacred. Those who break them are held in contempt, no better than criminals. This is not a view held solely by militaries.
why didn’t Aragorn just have the Dead fight until Sauron was defeated, rather than a single battle?
Real answer is then there's no more real stakes at the black gate if he keeps the invincible ghost army.
They're too OP.
Union rules: one battle per oath , 40h work week and stuff
@blu menthal This is a good answer to this question and it tracks.
I never realized that the stone was part of the whole thing. I always thought it was just some set dressing for the passage.
Seems that in Tolkien's world NOTHING is some set dressing!
This is amazing! I just stumbled upon this while looking up different LOTR compositions. So glad I gave it a listen! The voicing is very well done and doesn't seem campy or melodramatic. I always thought I was a mega-fan but I learned some new information too! Definitely subscribing. Awesome job man! 😁
Thanks so much for subscribing! Glad you liked it! Plenty more on the way.
Your growing so fast love ur channel any tips for starting a middle earth channel like yours and others?
Thanks! So glad you are enjoying the channel. It has definitely been a fun week! I feel like I'm still learning a lot about this myself, but I think the best advice I've heard and would repeat to others is to do a channel on something you have a passion for and just try it out. So many people don't do things because they don't know how to start and doubt themselves, or delay because they want it to be perfect. It won't be perfect. You just have to start and you'll grow in your skills as you do more and more.
Thanks a lot!
I have just stumbled on your channel and I'm just simply in awe as to how detailed and well documented these bits of middle earth lore are in comparison to what is already available.
You're my new go to channel for the coming Christmas holidays!!
Thanks so much! So glad you found the channel and are enjoying it! 😊
Certainly better in the books. In the film the invincible army of the dead saving Minas tirith rather than the armies of the West was silly.
Yeah, they use it as a plot device. At the time of my 1st viewing of the movie, I though it was rushed.
And looked like characters out of Scooby Doo.
This was my biggest grip of Return of the King. It ruins the entire theme of the stories.
The feeling of the book is certainly different from the movie. In the movie they feel a lot more angry and spiteful, even arrogant. They have surrendered themselves to the fact that they will never rest so they just embrace it. Aragorn has to ask them multiple times and even somewhat challenge them. They don't really believe anymore that rest is even a possibility.
I've always wondered why Aragorn said their Oath is fulfilled when the war and Sauron's servants were still around at the black gates... like the job wasn't done yet lol. Maybe I'm wrong.
The oath was loyalty to the king of Gondor, was Isildur a king or a steward king? Anyways, Isildur called them to a battle and they did not show up. So a battle they owe.
@@parjai97 He was a King
@@randomelite4562 I might misremember but the one who ruled before Aragorn was a steward king, not a king
@@parjai97 Was a Steward, not a Steward King. However, the one who cursed the Oathbreakers was a King of Gondor
Because Sauron was also a necromancer and he could've controlled the dead if they crossed into his land.
So, the movie portrayed this in an almost entirely different way...
Indeed, it did.
You will find that A LOT of the movies don't quite jive with the books. Some changes were necessary but I wish more people that saw the film would read the books so they would know Tolkien's actual written canon.
Man, oh Man, Oh Man...These Oathbreakers...
*Coughs* Anyways, thanks for doing a video for Middle Earth that is suited for Halloween...
Can't wait to your Yule Video in Middle Earth at Christmas!!!
I'll have to start thinking about the Christmas vid now!
@@NerdoftheRings poor thanksgiving. always overlooked due to December 25th
Would love to see a 'what if' and explore if the men of the mountains had kept their original oath.
new lore again so nice, congratz :D
Love you work, and it must be some to gather all the info together. I'd love to see an episode about the palantir! (more magic stones)
Any idea on why the oath was fulfill then and not later? I know the movies get a lot wrong and bla bla bla, but it is different and kind of make sense to "release" them AFTER the was is over. Sorry about my english, still learning.! As always, great video, it helps me understand the history a lot better.!
I still don´t get it.
Maybe because their "Fear and darkness" wouldn´t work against Mordor´s army. Only against the corsairs (humans, and not under direct influence of Sauron)
Great video, the voices you do for the characters when you're reading the different parts are really good.
Oathbreakers are people who've only seen the movies but never read the books.
@@nobis_kid623 hey, I read the books, then, saw the movies, fyi, even read the only book not made into a movie, the silmarillion.
The great line of the oathbreakers was well said by legolas in the extended version
I’d always thought of the curse as being somewhat self-inflicted thanks to the nature of their oaths. Glad to see that backed up!
Halbrand anyone?
Gimli: 'Bad Idea. Very handy in a tight spot, these lads, despite the fact they're dead.'
So, now that the Oathbreakers have fulfilled their oaths and redeemed themselves and finally found their peace, are they now the Grateful Dead?
The version of the book is way cooler than the movie, no surprise
I wish Peter Jackson didn't have them smother Minas Tirith and the battle field.
I wish Peter Jackson hadn't done so many shitty "interpretations" on his movies. I have such a love/hate thing for the movie trilogy.
If that battle wasn't resolved quickly enough then how long would ROTK be?!!!
@@mikespearwood3914 I wish Jackson was in this thread to answer that. Pretty sure he would have made it work without going over on time.
I see that you took my suggestion to the heart :') keep up the great work.
Ps: is it possible to make a sub series on the chronological order of events from zero up to now/end? I'm not a big fan of reading and your voice and animations are great.
I've been thinking a fun video to do would be a complete timeline of Middle-earth. It would have to be a highlights-only video and roll through things quite quickly, but it might be fun to do at lightning speed. Even then, it would be a big video!
This is one where I like the movie version better, the army helping break the siege of minas tirith is too amazing.
Agreed, they did the book deed AND broke the siege. Would’ve been a shorter movie had Aragorn not released them until after defeating the rest of Sauron’s forces in Mordor though (would’ve been cool though)
Disagree. I thought that one of cheapest and shabbiest ways to treat the battle. It makes the previous fighting and sacrifices of the humans pretty worthless since the "green scrubbing bubbles" could've (and did) wipe out all of Sauron's armies remaining. I understand the economics of the moviemaking and all, but showing the effect of Aragon and his kin (as in the book) is so much more dramatic. Also the cgi in this part of the movie sucked.
i always thought that it was too easy, they didnt help they literally destroyed everything in their path in seconds. The only reason i never really minded it is because the rest is such a great movie and it feels wrong to get caught up in one small thing
@@nichozfpl agreed. It’s really the only aspect of the film that ever bothered me, but considering just how great the rest of the film is; It can easily be forgiven.
Then you don't understand what the books are actually about. Friendship, loyaly and courage defeat Sauron, not an invincible army that knows no fear. The part of the film where Frodo sends Sam home is a similar error where the writers undermined the most crucial relationship in the trilogy just to get Frodo to enter Shelob's lair on his own! The hatchet jobs on Denethor and Faramir are comparatively small misdemeanours.
Understandable.
I have been enduring same curse that has been casted upon me. For I have been doing the dishes on my 25th year now and thou shall continue till the my time on mere earth ends for eternity.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I really appreciate the changes that were made for the movie. This story wouldn´t have worked on screen as well. Also the smaller changes like showing Narzil instead of a standard were important. It´s just way more appealing to the broader audience, since swords are often mystified in well known stories like King Arthur.
Great explanation and refresher of the Dead as depicted in the books. I wonder now if the Dead even had the ability to _physically_ fight and kill the living as depicted in the movie? It seems like their contribution was solely in their appearance at Pelargir which caused the Corsairs to abandon their ships in fear and flee. Of course then Aragorn was able to use those ships and, along with a growing complement of freed-up _living_ warriors from southern Gondor regions, sailed to the aid of Minas Tirith.
Gimli states his own suspicion of that in his account of the battle with the Corsairs - their power is fear, the weapon of the enemy.
The way it is written that the dead dissappear is beautiful. Like mists in the wind. I love it. I think I'm intelligent / old enough to finally read Tolkien's stuff. It always seemed to wordy / dry to me when I was a kid. I think I can finally appreciate it now.
It’s a beautiful story. One of my favorites of all time. Just to fulfill honor means everything to a soldier. When you take an oath, it should mean your very existence. When you break it, you don’t get another chance. Death before dishonor is the message that rings clear as day and the cleansing of souls through redemption is what I truly believe to be a possibility in the afterlife. Whatever holds you to your life on earth will bind you in death. “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” - Matthew 18:18
Do you know which scenes with the army of the dead that are in the cinema version of the movie. I’ve only seen the extended in the last years but my husband says that as he remembers the cinema version Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli just goes into the path of the dead (“an Elf goes under ground but a dwarf dares not” ☺️) and the next time they are shown they come to Minas Tirith with the army of the dead without any explanation. I do believe there is part of the scene where Aragorn meets the captain of the dead army right? Or else it doesn’t make sense at all… but is my husband right, where all scenes inside the path of the dead cut from cinema version?
The fact Aragorn has the ability to summon these beings because of his sword, which is supposedly unbreakable now, can cut astral and battle trolls like nothing. Has the supernatural ability to create light. That sword is very, very powerful.
He summons them as Isildur's heir not because he has a magic sword, that is only a symbol. 'Magic' is for Harry Potter, the sword is just a sword. If you beieve that Aragorn is who he is because of a supernatural sword you are missing the whole point of the books.
This man needs a podcast!
Haha! That would be fun, I’m sure! Although I’ve been staying pretty busy just making the videos. 😁 Thanks for watching!
The reason for being loyal to ur word
For some reason the King of the Dead reminds me of the wizard in 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail' with the questions three and one is "What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?"
I would have had them roll through Mordor with me before I considered their oath fulfilled but I guess that would have been too easy.
yeah I wondered about that too. Or does it have something to do with that they only are 'allowed' to defend Gondor instead of actually attacking the enemy on their territory (?)
It could be they wouldn't be that effective in Mordor. In the book it seems their chief effect is the fear they cause in mortal humans - rather like the Nazgûl, btw. This is effective against humans, Dwarves and horses, but not against Elves, as we see during the tale. So, perhaps they wouldn't be effective against Orcs either? I bet the Orcs of Mordor are pretty used to supernatural horror and some dead humans wouldn't bother them much.
One could say that in Tolkien's world, oaths have power. But I would suggest that it is more precise to say that the "witness" of the oath, who guarantees the oath to be held, is the real power behind it. The more powerful the witness is, the more binding the oath becomes and the more dramatic the consequences are if one breaks it.
Gollum swears his oath to help Frodo by the One Ring. (Note: Not ON it, since that would bind Gollum to a truly dark fate if he breaks the oath: " 'How dare you?' he said. 'Think! One Ring to rule them all and in the Darkness bind them. Would you commit your promise to that, Sméagol? It will hold you.")
Féanor and his sons call Eru Illúvatar himself as their witness which binds them to their oath for the entirety of time and regardless of the will of the Valar or Morgoth. A truly horrifying oath.
Btw: Amazing video! :D
Oh wow...Feanor didn't think that one through, did he? He pretty turned his family into generational kinslayers...no better than Gollum.
@@shantellakaladypersephone8671 He was quite an awful person, yes. But his oath was part of his hybris (which is a important motive in Tolkien's oevre, see the "Akallabêth"). Despite this, the Valar and especially Manwe were quite sad when they heard what Féanor had done, because they knew what he could've achieved, had he not chosen the path of hate, revenge and hybris. He was, after all, the most capable and powerful of all children of Illúvatar. But this too is a major literary motive in Tolkien's work (if not THE central motive): Destruction, decline, and the irreversible loss of all things beautiful. (Because Arda was damaged right from the beginning). It is very melancholic, but it represents one of the fundamental thruths of our existence and of the universe in general. I think this is one of the reasons why the Silmarillion is such a powerful story.
(Sorry for this long monologue)
@@untruelie2640 No apology needed! This was excellent and has given me more to seek out of the great work of Tolkien. I thank you sincerely for the reply.😊
@@shantellakaladypersephone8671 I'm glad to hear that. :)
@@shantellakaladypersephone8671 If you want to know more about Tolkien as s person and a writer, I highly recommend watching the documentary "J.R.R. Tolkien 1892-1973 - A study of the maker of Middle Earth". It's available here on UA-cam. It features his son, the late Christopher Tolkien (who published the Silmarillion after his fathers death and was perhaps the person with the most insight into J.R.R. Tolkien's work), his daugther as well as Professor Tom Shippey, a true scholar and perhaps the first Tolkien nerd. :)
I've been a life-long LotR fan and I really dig your videos! If I might make a suggestion... I think you would benefit from listening to the audiobooks performed by Robert Inglis. He read The Hobbit, The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings (including the appendices)and they're all fantastic.
Ha! I'm listening to them right now, they are amazing.
So they never said "The Dead does not suffer the living to pass"? what a bummer.
Very recently found your channel and really enjoying your content. Thank you. 😊
So glad to hear you like the channel! Welcome!
@@NerdoftheRings Thank you. 😊
The writers at Rings of Power should probably watch this video
I just found this channel, and, oh, how I love it! Perfect for listening on my long drives to and from work. Soon I'll be as knowledgeable about Middle Earth as Gandalf himself.
This is the first time I’ve seen one my emoji used! So fun!! So glad you are loving the channel! Thanks so much for your support. More videos are on the way - including tomorrow’s release on Radagast! 😁
@@NerdoftheRings Wow! That's the first time I'm first at something! 😄 So excited to see your channel grow.
Was the witchking having his own identity and intention at this point (even if under orders from Sauron) or was he just a blind slave commanded like a puppet by his master Sauron?
Awesome channel
Just found it
Great job !
Love it
Oaths have power, but not necessarily supernatural power, even in Tolkien. Mandos’ Doom enforces the Oath of the sons of Feanor; I don’t think Eorl’s Oath was supernaturally enforced at all. My theory is that after Isildur obtained the Ring, he wove its dominating power into his Curse, causing it to enforce the Oath and strand the souls of the men of Dunharrow in Middle-Earth as wraiths until such time as their Oath could be fulfilled. This isn’t just a possible reason that this Oath bore supernatural backing that common oaths lack; it’s also a good object lesson in evil’s own weapons and victims turning against it in the end.
Good job, mellon! Good job! Would have loved to see some scenes from the movies, but maybe next time ;). Just a suggestion. Thanks!
The soundtrack is very good!! And You're the best!
I always had reservations about the stone of Erech. So, loyal Numenoreans rush to their great - but wooden - ships as the tidal wave from Hell is sweeping towards them, but wait! Gotta get that thirty ton stone onboard! Right. And for what? What purpose did it serve? Maybe it was the Super Palantir! Seems they left the instruction manual behind. It always made me think of those reflecting globes you used to see in old gardens.
Apparently it made a good oath stone! haha! I wondered the same thing about why this would be among the top things to bring - just from a practicality standpoint. I always think of palantiri when I see one of those garden globes! That's hilarious.
Without that stone I don't think the curse of unrest would have worked. It's to coincidental that a "random" stone was brought to the mountains, the men broke their promise and then were cursed.
@@jayrymer2097 Jay, that's interesting. So you are saying that the Numenoreans brought the stone over for just that kind of purpose? Makes sense.
That stone might have originated from Meneltarma, since the mountain has been sacred in worshipping Eru Illuvatar and hosted a temple as well. My guess is they brought a piece of that Numenorean holy mountain with them, so they could continue practicing their oaths to Eru. Besides, men spirits go to Eru directly, they don't go to Halls of Mandos, so it kinda makes sense why they would swear oats to him, and the *power OATS had*
@@shomiiii96 Your suggestion makes sense. And OATS are powerful, especially for breakfast.
Elladan and Elrohir are elves I have not seen or I may not have noticed them in the movies. Is there a life travel video of them?
The Dead pledged their allegiance to Isildur and Gondor to fight Sauron but when Gondor called them to war they betrayed their king. So Isildur cursed them never to go to Heaven or Hell until they uphold their oath, come to aide Gondor, and Sauron is defeated. When the Dead see Narsil they know obey their king or they will remain cursed forever.
There is no mention of them seeing the sword in the book (Anduril, not Narsil) Aragorn declares that he is 'Elessar', Isildur's heir, the power is in him not the sword. This is about the books not the films.
For the new Rings of Power series, is it possible the Haldor character is the king from this video?
Haldor? you mean Halbrand right?
"In Tolkien's world, oaths have power".
Don't be fooled into believing that it's ONLY in Tolkien's world. Oaths have power. As does all spoken word.
I try to watch the movies and just enjoy them for what they are, but this is one of the changes that just drive me nuts. The movie portrays the army of the dead as unstoppable, killing machines and to me it cheapens the entire battle around Minas Tirith and all the sacrifices that had been made.
My god your story telling is such inspiring and great! Thanks for your work
One of my favorite parts of the series, Great vid.
Oh god, it sounds way too cringe when this guy attempts to roleplay as the characters!
You voice them nicely...
Thanks!!
it would be so much more impactful if the oathbreaker only chase them away with fear in the movies. they were too OP in the film and that kind of nullified the impact of the struggle.
One of your better ones! Great voice acting!
Thanks so much!
Well, This account visual makes the Peter Jackson scenes seem very much inferior. The dialog is richer, the sense of foreboding and the power of fear is more pronounced, the interaction of the horn at the stone much more powerful. I love the artwork of the dead mounted upon horses streaking toward the corsairs ...I wish that they had not changed anything from the book... except the "You WILL suffer me" exclamation. I just love the books so much more. Still love Peter Jacksons adaptation.