He mistook the words "high king" for "hiking" and spent the first 87 years of his life walking around in the wilderness. This is why he was called "Strider".
Love that Faramir as Steward basically said, truthfully , "I'm the steward, but this guy's the legit king, believe it!" and everyone just went, "yep, okay".
I like how the narrator adds as a "random" factor that, "oh and by the way, Aragorn just summoned an entire ghost army on his authority, who just saved all your hides!"
Fucking FACTS I'm literally in the middle of rewatching his entire channel (no joke. From start to finish) his voice is so calming, the way he story tells is incredibly intriguing, and I just love him all in all.
Aragorn: " I am your king! " Peasant: "I didn't vote for you!" Another Peasant: "Listen. Strange Elves wandering into tents distributing shiny swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical elvish ceremony!"
Ownership of the Ring of Barahir alone should qualify anyone to be king of all men in Middle Earth. That ring was on the hand of Beren as he cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown. That's a mic drop right there.
@BooksForever there are two sacrifices that give me goosebumps every time. Barahir and his band ( "army" at the time) as they literally cut their way in and out of the orc army with HEAVY casualties to save Finrod and the way Huor and Hurin and the last survivors of the men of Hador just hold their ground to the last man to let Turgon escape. I just got goosebumps again
Can't count how many times, I had a not so great day, was in a bad mood or just felt down and a video pops up on my feed, and for a moment I'm right back in the Middlearth. Where hope never dies, the evil is destined to fail, good and righteous men lead people to victory and every small act of kindness can be the last grain needed to topple the fortress of the oppressive ruler. And I think to myself "maybe our world is not that different and all that's needed is to be a little better person." Thank you Robert and thanks to Tolkien for being there when I need to be reminded that good eventually wins.
Our world too is where hope never dies, and evil is destined to fall. Remember Gandalf’s words to Frodo: When Frodo says, "I wish it need not have happened in my time," Gandalf replies, "So do I, and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us".
@tomasz15050 - You nailed it, bro'. "...maybe our world is not that different and all that's needed is to be a little better person." *_That! Right there!! That's the whole thing!!!_* You're the only person you can change. And the same is true of everyone else. If everyone just focused on raising their own consciousness and stopped hating whomever they think The Enemy is, everything would change. I'm not saying it's easy, but it couldn't be simpler. I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen, but that really is all it would take. It has to start somewhere, so it starts with me. I can't do anything about anyone else, so it's no use trying to "get" anyone else to change. I do me. You do you. It's not "idealistic". It's completely realistic. The reason it doesn't happen is that everyone thinks everyone else is The Problem. Nope. It's all up to me to be a better person. What anyone else does...well, that's up to them. 😎
Much more so than you might think. It's only hinted at in the Fellowship, but he saw off a Black Rider, and Tom Bombadil thought a great deal of him. I would guess that as a farmer his power, or maybe strength, derived from the earth itself.
I’m glad to see you gradually reuploading all the videos you took down. They’ve given me such greater appreciation for these series but I hadn’t gotten through even half of them before they disappeared a few months ago. Can’t wait to wait them all soon
@@SeanCMonahan A couple months ago, he made a community post about how he was reuploading the Traveler's Guide to Westeros series with updates from new material like Fire & Blood, interviews with George R R Martin, etc. He mentioned we may notice a few other videos missing while he updated, but it was dozens of videos, maybe more. Including this, he's updated 7 videos, starting with "What actually is Lembas?" They all have a pinned comment saying they're updated.
I read the books long before seeing the movies, but even watching the movie alone made me think that Aragorn became the king in the eyes of all of Gondor from the moment he led the charge at the battle of the black gate. The whole trilogy of films made it very clear that Aragorn didn't even feel like he had a claim and had no intention of pressing one. But then he gave that rousing speech and was the first to charge into Sauron's grasp, knowing that he wouldn't survive it. Aragorn's lineage was made irrelevant by that act, he earned the right to be king.
You are correct in your recollection that Aragorn had no intention of pressing his claim to the throne. In Rivendell, Elrond reminds him that he has the power to defeat the enemy, and he replies, "I do not want that power. I have never wanted it." I interpret "never wanted it" to mean that he was always aware of his lineage. Indeed, it's likely that Elrond told him of it as a youth. He was raised in Rivendell, after all. So, I think he knew that he had a claim, but he didn't want it.
When Boromir asked how long a time must pass before a Steward could become a King, if the King did not return, Denethor replied, 'Few years, maybe, in other places of less royalty. In Gondor ten thousand years would not suffice'. So if the stewards would not take kingship, there really was no one else.
As well as in Ancient Macedon, where the aristocracy had to accept the claim of the pretender. Philipp II and Alexander the Great became kings because they had the support of the aristocracy.
Tolkien was aware that the citizens of medieval London claimed the ancient right to acclaim - not choose - the King of England. This was never quite formally acknowledged by the monarchy but never denied either.
@@TheGahta Blood lineages having a claim to land/throne is a pretty old tradition. It makes sense that the monarchs without that kinda claim wouldn't want to lose their power over it
I remember Aragorn saying that he did not want any strife in Gondor, only strive with the enemy's councils. I think it was at the Last Debate. Not sure. But he said he did not want to claim the kingship while there was doubt of who would be victorious. So, he didn't want to claim the kingship and caus a civil war. I think that's why he did not claim the kingship in all the decades preceding, as well.
honestly, with a publicist or PR team, he could have slowly won the people over in that entire time, just by showing his heart and soul through his exploits
Thank you for giving us Deep Geeks something to escape with. I know this is a fun job for you but it means a lot for us. Again we appreciate all you do.
In a subtly tragic way, Sauron's malicious psychological subversion of Denethor could be considered another example of evil harming itself, as he ultimately eliminated one of Aragorn's most stalwart political opponents before he even had a chance to oppose him.
The question is, however, would Denethor have even been a political opponent absent the machinations of Sauron, or would he rather than his son, acted to put Aragorn on the throne?
The Dunedain Rangers of the North were living around the lands where Arnor used to be. Gondor didn't even know about them, which was how Aragorn, as Thorongil, didn't need to claim his place as Chieftain of the Dunedain Rangers or as a direct descendant of High King Elendil in order to lead a military action for Gondor to strike against Umbar. Rulership by the Stewards was entrenched in Gondor's culture because they didn't believe that there were any remaining descendants of the line of kings. Aragorn *earned* his kingship by leading Gondor to victory over Mordor. Which meant a *lot* more to the people of that time than some ancient claim and ancient artifacts so many generations removed from their present day.
Aragorn also refused to enter minas tirith after the battle of pellinor fields. He remained outside using his healing knowledge to tend the wounded. Only when the grateful populace asked him to did he enter the city and take the crown. That's what's so great about Aragorn. He didn't earn his kingship through strength of arms but through compassion and a popular mandate.
Actually Denethor was rather wise and intelligent and ruled Gondor well for a long time, but he was old and things started looking bleaker and bleaker and he started using the Palantir which always showed true things but Sauron had control if it and he always showed him things that make the future seem more hopeless and after Boromir died he eventually just thought there was no chance to beat Sauron(which kinda was true, the ring getting destroyed was a hail mary) and kinda went mad and wanted to end it on his own terms
Nice explanation. One thing that is left out is the dynamic between Meneldil (son of Anarion) and Valandil (the youngest son of Isildur). Arnor had taken heavy casualties in the war of the last alliance; and in the disaster of Gladen Fields, 200 men (mostly Lords and high ranking officers of high numenorian decent) die with Isildur. Crucially, Isildur 3 eldest son, and among them the eldest, Elendur (who is described as the most like Elendil and the eldest of second generation of the house of Elendil) all died. As a result Valandil who is 7 years old becomes king. Arnor is weaker compared to Gondor and now the Majestic figures of Isildur and Elendur are dead. I don't think Meneldil (who is said to be the last surviving person born on Numenor itself) would've accepted the a 7 year old boy to be the High king
Of course, Ioreth could tell you all about the prophecy that "The hands of the king are the hands of a healer"; she's very well acquainted with the gossip and stories about the city, and as she was saying to her kinswoman just the other day, it's very important that the future king be.............
Thanks for the explanation. I remember some of that from the books, but it was muddy. If they offered classes in this mythology, you would be a definitive authority.
The Dead Men did not answer to the King of Gondor. They’d sworn an oath to Isildur, and only his heir could redeem them. A King of Gondor descended from Meneldil would have had no power over them.
Thought that was what Elrond said to Aragorn when handing over Andúril (in the films)? "You need more men" "There are none left" "There are those who dwell in the mountain" Aragorn: "They have no loyalty. They answer to no-one" Elrond (unveiling the sword) "They will answer to the King of Gondor" I don't remember how it went in the books.
I think the key events that led to situation at the time of the War of the Ring are 1) Valandil not claiming the high kingship; I do wonder though what might have happened had one of his older brothers survived the disaster of the Gladden Fields 2) The rejection of Arvedui's claim to the throne even though he had married the daughter of Gondor's king Ondoher in addition to being king of Arnor 3) The apparent lack of interest on the part of the Stewards of Gondor in trying to find a suitable king, even if that meant searching in the north. Consequently, Aragorn had to not only be of the line of Isildur but demonstrate that he, as his actions showed, was clearly the man to become king.
Making Aragorn a "reluctant King" in the films was one of the changes that really bugged me. The reluctant king is an old and worn out trope by now, and it makes it seem Aragorn was hiding from his responsibilities.
Tolkien knew history and stories and he knew in real life Kings became Kings because that claimed to be when nobody could/would stop them. The stories, the fiats, etc... came after that :)
The memory of the Kin-strife probably also weighed on the minds of the previous chieftains of the Dunedain and they didn't want to pursue their claim without acclimation by the people, which as Robert point's out, needs the Steward's and the people's rubber stamp.
quite, the memory of the Kin-Strife was the main reason why the stewards began their solo rule, there were several possible candidates in Gondor, but none of them had enough support to be proclaimed king. In order to prevent another civil war, it was decided to have the steward rule in the name of the king.
If audiobooks are more your speed, try the versions read by Andy Serkis. He's got a great voice for narration and the main characters all come across as quite distinct.
Oh, and the 1981 BBC radio production is a worthy compromise - very faithful to the books, and well acted and narrated. Ian Holm, who played Bilbo in the movies, played Frodo in the radio production.
thank you for all the amazing content, old and new. looking forward to the new versions of the Legends of Middle-Earth series, those helped me fall asleep like nothing else, especially the Glofindel and Earendil one (that's a big compliment, in case that wasn't clear :D)
Hey I really love your content and was wondering if you ever thought about uploading these videos as podcasts on Spotify, I would love to just listen to it on the way home or while I’m playing something. Anyways I really love your videos you’re doing a great job ❤️
The way I understand it is, that nobody knew Isildurs heir was alive and couldn't be outright with it because Sauron would've had him killed as a youngster. So for his safety, Elrond kept this from him and just about everyone else. Rings of Power would probably have you believe that it was his older sister Neverbeenborn was the heir..
Well of course, they put aside the older sister because of patriarchal systems of oppression and hetero-normative bias, because his sister was also queer. So they clearly erased her from the lore and ROP will show us the true Herstory
Imagine being handed a broken sword by an immortal that tells you that it will help you be king. Oh and the being who wants you dead is also immortal...good luck..lol buck me
You guys fr gotta get off your corners of 4chan and reddit, rings of power is far from some sjw work, yall only feel that way because you're threatened whenever someone of not your demographic is given any spot of significance in a work 🙄😒
The King ranging around the countryside UNRECOGNISED reminds me of that hilarious scene with the peasants in "MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL"!!! 🤣🤣 Faramir was always the 'clever' one in his family. Wise, insightful and aware. 👍 So, Aragorn does become the supported King, and that's the most important thing... M 🦘🏏😎
Ya know, I thought from watching yall and a variety of other youtubers, I was aware of enough LOTR lore to no longer be interested in your channel or those other youtubers. This video proved me wrong. Thanks for reposting
I only got into the Lotr universe a week ago and your content really helps me to dive in deeper, thanks for the fantastic work :) Also your intro gives such a classy and sophisticated vibe, I just love it.
While it is true that the Gondorian line of kings ended, which in turn led to the Stewards taking over, the Stewards from the beginning were installed to rule the city until the rightful king returns, it was always meant as a temporary position. The problem is that by the time the Gondorian line ended the kingdom of Arnor was no more, as it was already split into 3, and so the line of northern kings were too busy stabilizing their own realm and fighting off the Witch King of Angmar to venture south and claim the Gondorian crown. Moreover Gondor had its own problems with Sauron, with the conquests of Minas Ithil(which turned into Minas Morgul) and East Osgiliath. So it's not so much that the Gondorians rejected a northern king but rather that no northern king had the ability to come south and claim the throne. Aragorn technically could have claimed his crown right from the start, however, him being the last heir of the line of the Numenorian kings(both north and south) meant he was #1 on Sauron's hit list. Thus Elrond hid him from the world throughout his childhood and even as an adult he remained in the shadows, wandering across middle earth by himself, assisting men wherever he could(Gondor, Ithilien, the north, etc) but always under a hidden identity, never revealing his true name. Thus the reason he didn't claim the Gondorian throne the moment he reached adulthood had less to do with his claim or even with Gondor and more with exposing himself to Sauron and not trusting that Gondor was powerful enough to fend off Sauron's full might, which most certainly would have come had Aragorn reclaimed the throne. This is one of those points where the movies tend to confuse people not familiar with the books(and you too apparently), as none of the Stewards actually had an issue relinquishing their title in favor of the rightful king returning to reclaim his throne. It was only Denethor himself that did have an issue with it. An issue that actually begun when Aragorn became captain of the Gondorian guard under Denethor's father Ecthelion. Denethor suspected Aragorn's true identity and thus became jealous of him and hating him for potentially stealing his inheritence(the Stewardship of Gondor once his father dies). Ecthelion himself didn't have any issue with it, but he didn't know Aragorn's true identity and Aragorn didn't reveal it. Thus Aragorn, realizing this, chose not to fight with Denethor and in doing so weaken the men of the west, and instead leave Gondor altogether after his famous victory over the corsairs of Umbar. By the way, it was this captainship that Faramir referred to in his speech, not the latest battle as Aragorn was not the leader of the Gondorian armies, merely those that came with him as reinforcements.
I check my phone everyday. Waiting for a new Lord of the rings video from you. I absolutely love your channel and appreciate all the hard work that you do and the small details you provide research and context for in your videos.
The real question is: why didn't anyone of Isildur's line claim the Gondor throne back when Meneldil's (solo) line first died off? -I'd imagine they would have been freaking out at the time and would have been a lot more accommodating.
They tried. That's when the quote at 3:39 was given. Those in Gondor didn't recognize the claims of the line of Isildur, so they first gave the crown to a more distant relative (but still descended from Meneldil), and when he died (well, charged into Minas Morgul at the Witch-King's taunting and was never heard of again), the Stewards were placed in power. Beyond that, the northern kingdoms failed in exactly same timeframe (the last king of Gondor went to help, but too late, arriving after Arthedain's fall to the Witch King), so when the line of Meneldil's line failed, the line of Isildur had already been reduced to chieftains ruling over a scattered folk in the wild. The Stewards, of ancient noble lineage themselves, would have seemed more noble and worthy.
@@thomasrinschler6783 I don't understand what's your point. The period you are talking about is obviously (even by your own post) before all of Meneldil's (and non Isildur) recognized descendants were dead. There's a big difference between begrudgingly accepting a royal Dunedain with lineage back to your founding kings, and being king-less in society/world where kings apparently have a profound/mystical impact and effect.
@@LENZ5369 But if the King of Arnor had already been rejected once by Gondor (with the Steward of that time playing a chief part), why would they think their claim or chances were any better after their own kingdom had been destroyed and they were now kings of nothing at all? Having the Stewards rule ostensibly in the name of Anarion's line was the choice Gondor went with as the only consensus they could come to on who should rule after their last king was killed. For Isildur's line to have claimed the throne again would only have stirred up controversy and would probably have been rejected again, so neither Isildur's line nor Gondor ever really considered that as an option. The circumstances that led to Aragorn being in a position to claim the throne were entirely unique and hadn't ever been present earlier.
@@Wolfeson28 When they rejected Arvedui, they still had a junior branch of Anarion -whose head was powerful and accomplished, and already with a male heir. Earnur dying without children would have been very unexpected -at that point; the issue was no longer fussing over which flavour of ice cream was best; it was whether they ever got any ice cream at all. Given that these were (absolute) monarchies; the idea that rational actors would leave the throne vacant (of even a puppet) -is unlikely...frankly; short of a long plot started by Voronwe (and carried on but all future Stewards) to usurp the throne -it doesn't make much sense.
@@LENZ5369 This is what the Appendices say about the succession issue after Earnur's death: "Now the descendants of the kings had become few...So it was that no claimant to the crown could be found who was of pure blood, or whose claim all would follow; and all feared the memory of the Kin-Strife, knowing that if any such dissension arose again, then Gondor would perish. Therefore, though the years lengthened, the Steward continued to rule Gondor, and the crown of Elendil lay in the lap of King Earnil in the Houses of the Dead, where Earnur had left it." Also keep in mind the line "...to most men in Gondor, the realm in Arthedain seemed a small thing, for all the lineage of its lords", which shows the general attitude of Gondor toward Arnor, even before the kingdom was destroyed. So there were still distant relatives of Anarion's line alive at the time, but they were all so distant and their claims were so weak that none of them could garner decisive support. The heirs of Isildur (if anyone in Gondor even knew the line still existed ~75 years after the fall of Arnor), would have been considered just one more among those fringe options with a weak claim. The leaders of Gondor feared disunity in a key moment more than they feared going without a king, so the compromise they could all get behind was to sidestep the issue by leaving the throne officially vacant, but letting the Stewards effectively rule as kings. To use your ice cream analogy, the leaders of Gondor were stuck with a choice between a bunch of weird exotic flavors, couldn't agree on one of them, so they just went with vanilla to avoid controversy.
The Gondor royal line ended, and Aragorn is heir to the throne of Arnor. The two royal lines came from King Elindil, but that does not automatically mean the heir of one line can inherit the throne of the other
Still feels weird, then, that the Stewards held on for over a thousand years, without just making themselves a new line of kings, when there was basically no reason to believe that any survivor of Anarion's line would appear. I can get that they might disqualify Aragorn, or another claimant from Arnor, but if no descendants of Anarion had appeared, in 1,000 years, even if just to be disproven, then there was no reason to believe any existed, so it's surprising the Stewards remained merely placeholders, especially with how ignorant most laypeople could be, in their era.
That is mentioned in the books. Faramir mentions Boromir had asked Denethor basically "how long until stewards become kings?" And Denethor said basically "in places less important, not long, but here, never."
@@dimitrikemitsky I do get that, as well as tradition is important, but after 1,000 years, when they openly say that they KNOW no heir is coming, because none exist, they'd move on. One just thinks that, in much the same way as Aragorn got the throne because he gave the people reason to support him, some other popular Steward, themselves somewhat related to the line, would have been able to convince the people to accept it. My only real logic here is that, after so many centuries without a king, the people didn't really remember having one, and it probably wasn't a long list, in the thongs an acting Steward couldn't do, that a new king would be allowed to, so they were happy to jeep their Steward a Steward, and let him rule as he/they had been, for centuries.
@@venkelos6996 It's because of three reasons. The first is that the people didn't forget they once had both a King of Gondor and High King of the Two Kingdoms. Even though the people can't remember having one, the legend of the Kings descended from Numenor could be said to almost be akin to a creation myth of the Western Kingdoms, with 'demi-gods' coming from across the sea to rule them. There is a religious aspect to it, and too much of Gondor's traditions and legends tie into the Kings. Actually, all of them pretty much do, including with the promise of their eventual return. The second reason is oaths have a powerful effect in Middle-Earth. It's similar to the Irish concept of Geass, a promise or restriction, that has absolute effect if it is broken. Oaths had the effect of essentially bad karma if broken, but the magnitude of this effect could be increased if you made an oath to or upon something with real 'power'. The noble sons of Numenor are included among those, as they had the blessing of the Valar. For example, look at the fate of the Men of Dunharrow. They broke their oath to Isildur, and so were cursed to undeath for thousands of years. You cannot break such an oath, and the Stewards Oath was one of them, where they swore to safekeep the throne in anticipation of the return of the King. Rejecting a claimant technically didn't break their oath, as part of the job would be to deny the throne to potential usurpers. If they genuinely believed there was no worthy King, that would be within their right. If they did break the oath by taking the throne themselves, disaster would certainly fall upon not only them, but any surviving of their line and perhaps all of Minas Tirith if the city supported the decision. The third and perhaps most practical reason is that Gondor as shown in the movies is not really that contiguous a kingdom. It's actually made up of various states and lordships, all of whom owe allegiance to Minas Tirith by tradition and oath. The second point comes in again, where many noble families and officials made oaths to the line of Elendil. But whether by oath or by political influence, the Stewards would actually harm their right to rule if they proclaimed themselves King. It would signal to the lesser lords that the time has come to see to their own fortunes and become kings themselves of their own lesser realms. The veneer of paying homage to the throne rather than the Stewards would be gone. You can argue that the Stewards would have had to maintain political and economic influence to command the allegiance of all Gondor anyway, and that is true. But it is definitely not worth any potential political strife, when in the current status quo, the Stewards are already Kings in all but name. Note that Minas Tirith and Osgiliath are pretty much the only cities under direct control of the Stewards. While populous, rich and powerful, they are still bastion cities built to defend against Sauron's armies, and located at the edge of Gondor's territory. The Stewards need to control the rest of Gondor by political and traditional, perhaps even mystic (oaths) means. They cannot afford expeditionary armies to bring any rebellious territories of Gondor to the west back into the fold.
Another thing to note is that all nobility of Gondor are descendants of Numenor and a lot of them live maybe like double the lifespan of normal men(i dont really remember and they did live shorter and shorter i guess) but 1000 years is less generations than it would be for us most likely, and yeah its just that oaths and tradition have a lot of power in middle earth, also at end of the day stewards were basically kings in all but name so why would they rock the boat if they thought that king was never gonna appear again if they try to change things they might just get people rebelling if they just let things be they are kings in all but name
Feels like the easiest explanation by far (even if this isn't supported by the source material) is that the Stewards were loathe to relinquish their place after a long time. If you spend a millennium "keeping the seat warm" for someone, eventually that starts to feel like *your* seat. But Aragorn's claim was really quite well backed up. You don't even have to take Aragorn's word for it on the lineage thing, Elrond literally was alive and at least semi-involved for all of it, all the way back from Elros through to raising Aragorn. He was the heir to Isildur, which lacking any heirs to Anarion is clearly the best claim to the throne of Gondor, and even if heirs to Anarion were known, he would *still* be the heir to the elder brother of those co-kings.
I think he didn't claim the kingship because Gondor was actually a very small part of the world. And he was doing more good going about in the world fighting Sauron's followers. He was keeping people safe. The city of Gondor was only part of his kingdom. He wasn't going to claim kingship until the fight against sauron can be brought to a head.
i like that stutter you did when you said "there is more" when referring to the dead men that only the High King of Gondor may hold their oaths fulfilled. I remember when Elrond spoke to Aragorn in the mountains
It's interesting, through the detailed history of how Gondor thrived under kings of Numenorean descent, but withered even under the best stewardship of the most noble men who *weren't* directly descended from Numenoreans (or at least from Elendil's line), Tolkien seems to be suggesting that it wasn't only symbolic that the True King needed to be enthroned for the wellbeing of the kingdom, but possibly that there was some kind of magic in the bloodline of Elendil (the magic of Melian perhaps?) which was literally holding the kingdom together, and that no matter how competent or noble a Steward might be, they just wouldn't have the Eru-bestowed power to keep Gondor (or Arnor) intact.
When England didn’t have a clear claimant to the throne through lineage, they gave it to someone else. Apparently, Gondor wouldn’t do this, for some reason. So they ended up with a crazy Steward.
It was because the stewards themselves refused to take the crown of the king. Even The overly proud Denethor said when boromir said why aren't you king "I am the steward to the king." That is why
@@LKMNOP I understand that. But that doesn’t happen in actual history. Which is why I invoked the English monarchy. Sure, Cincinnatus and Washington sort of refused the throne, but they are the exceptions.
Aragorn aside from coming from a long line of Kings, he also shares with Arwen the blood of men, elves and the Ainur for they were both descended from the line of Luthien and Beren of old.
There's also the matter of what would be suggested to Sauron by a northern claimant to seek the crown of Gondor. An attempt to reunite the two kingdoms would imply possession of the One Ring or at least a desire to settle matters once and for all. It would have been foolish for a claimant to attempt unification without being ready for the final war with Sauron.
He didn’t want to be, until the people wanted him, until he proved to them why he was the right choice through his actions and not just his bloodline. The video gave interesting and relevant details, it wasn’t rambling or needlessly extended if that’s what you’re implying Oolong!
No he wanted to be king in the books and it was in fact one of the conditions Elrond put for him if he wanted to marry Arwen, but people Denethor wouldnt accept his claim and people would have likely rejected him as well - until he fought to defend Minas Tirith and they saw him healing people after Denethor was already dead
Ah, Robert, your videos are wonderful. But you missed a chef’s kiss level pun at 5:10. You said, “Aragorn couldn’t exactly walk into Minas Tirith and claim the crown.” You should have said “Aragon did not simply walk into Mordor.” 🤣
The dead marshes are a result of the battle of dagorlad. The penultimate battle of the last alliance. It was there Saurons froces were annihilated and he hid in baradur and was besieged.
You need to do a video estimating how many pounds of produce Merry and Pippin steal from Farmer Maggot in a year. Extrapolated from how much they said they took in the weeks preceding the events of the fellowship.
So you forgot to answer the question....? 😅 But the answer is that he'd need both the support from the steward, _and_ he needed to _show_ that he was worthy. Neither of which would have been true if he'd just dropped in on Denethor at the start.
The Dunedein are like Jon Snow in the North and Gondor itself is like Poland. Regencies don’t tend to want their king back in an ironic fashion. Aragorn essentially had to earn the throne by beating Mordor in a fight like a giant faction side quest. Him being a Ranger. The elves that made his family sword reforged it and gave it back to him and he had to get all the other trinkets randomly gifted to him. Imagine doing all that in real life and being 90 when you’re done.
He mistook the words "high king" for "hiking" and spent the first 87 years of his life walking around in the wilderness. This is why he was called "Strider".
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Get out of here
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Love that Faramir as Steward basically said, truthfully , "I'm the steward, but this guy's the legit king, believe it!" and everyone just went, "yep, okay".
Ioreth in the background telling her cousin "I TOTALLY called it!"
@@katherinegraham3803bro. That was so satisfying in the books
@@katherinegraham3803you gotta love how Tolkien infers how much of a certified yapper she was
I like how the narrator adds as a "random" factor that, "oh and by the way, Aragorn just summoned an entire ghost army on his authority, who just saved all your hides!"
Faramir Uzumaki
Re upload or not, whatever he needs to do to keep this channel chugging along is fine with me. He’s a fantastic creator
My bad bro I wasn’t subscribed but I am now and I liked the video I did my part
Fucking FACTS I'm literally in the middle of rewatching his entire channel (no joke. From start to finish) his voice is so calming, the way he story tells is incredibly intriguing, and I just love him all in all.
Im glad hes ReUploading some stuff. Gives me a chance to catch it
One of the best Lotr and GoT channels ❤❤❤
Heck, I just found this channel like five days ago, so it's new to me.
Aragorn: " I am your king! "
Peasant: "I didn't vote for you!"
Another Peasant:
"Listen. Strange Elves wandering into tents distributing shiny swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical elvish ceremony!"
That is why Aragorn had to prove himself by leadership first.
Now we see the violence inherent in the system.
Is that a Monty Python reference ?
@@ArshadAli-rp2cn Yes, it is :D And a very good one, at that!
And what did the Gondorians ever do for us, anyway?
Ownership of the Ring of Barahir alone should qualify anyone to be king of all men in Middle Earth. That ring was on the hand of Beren as he cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown. That's a mic drop right there.
Which was crafted originally in Valinor!
Well the ring is Arwen's at that time lol
Jk
Not to mention the way in which his father originally “earned” that ring, and the way Beren then rescued same ring. Extraordinary heroism.
@@saeedshahbazian9889 That's true! I guess having Elrond's daughter as your fiance is pretty impressive too though 😎
@BooksForever there are two sacrifices that give me goosebumps every time.
Barahir and his band ( "army" at the time) as they literally cut their way in and out of the orc army with HEAVY casualties to save Finrod
and the way Huor and Hurin and the last survivors of the men of Hador just hold their ground to the last man to let Turgon escape.
I just got goosebumps again
Can't count how many times, I had a not so great day, was in a bad mood or just felt down and a video pops up on my feed, and for a moment I'm right back in the Middlearth. Where hope never dies, the evil is destined to fail, good and righteous men lead people to victory and every small act of kindness can be the last grain needed to topple the fortress of the oppressive ruler. And I think to myself "maybe our world is not that different and all that's needed is to be a little better person."
Thank you Robert and thanks to Tolkien for being there when I need to be reminded that good eventually wins.
Where hope never dies!
Our world too is where hope never dies, and evil is destined to fall. Remember Gandalf’s words to Frodo: When Frodo says, "I wish it need not have happened in my time," Gandalf replies, "So do I, and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us".
Sorry you’re having rough times! I hope you make it through.
Thank you for this wonderfully inspiring comment!
@tomasz15050 - You nailed it, bro'. "...maybe our world is not that different and all that's needed is to be a little better person." *_That! Right there!! That's the whole thing!!!_* You're the only person you can change. And the same is true of everyone else. If everyone just focused on raising their own consciousness and stopped hating whomever they think The Enemy is, everything would change. I'm not saying it's easy, but it couldn't be simpler.
I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen, but that really is all it would take. It has to start somewhere, so it starts with me. I can't do anything about anyone else, so it's no use trying to "get" anyone else to change. I do me. You do you. It's not "idealistic". It's completely realistic. The reason it doesn't happen is that everyone thinks everyone else is The Problem. Nope. It's all up to me to be a better person. What anyone else does...well, that's up to them. 😎
How powerful was Farmer Maggot?
Farmer Maggot is Eru and I'll fight anyone who disagrees
Much more so than you might think. It's only hinted at in the Fellowship, but he saw off a Black Rider, and Tom Bombadil thought a great deal of him. I would guess that as a farmer his power, or maybe strength, derived from the earth itself.
Not
We all know the answer to that.
@@ceejay0137 Great point. Tom, who'd likely forget about the one ring and wander away from it, knew Farmer Maggot and thought very highly of him
I’m glad to see you gradually reuploading all the videos you took down. They’ve given me such greater appreciation for these series but I hadn’t gotten through even half of them before they disappeared a few months ago. Can’t wait to wait them all soon
Why did he take down so many of his own videos?
@@SeanCMonahan A couple months ago, he made a community post about how he was reuploading the Traveler's Guide to Westeros series with updates from new material like Fire & Blood, interviews with George R R Martin, etc. He mentioned we may notice a few other videos missing while he updated, but it was dozens of videos, maybe more. Including this, he's updated 7 videos, starting with "What actually is Lembas?" They all have a pinned comment saying they're updated.
I read the books long before seeing the movies, but even watching the movie alone made me think that Aragorn became the king in the eyes of all of Gondor from the moment he led the charge at the battle of the black gate. The whole trilogy of films made it very clear that Aragorn didn't even feel like he had a claim and had no intention of pressing one. But then he gave that rousing speech and was the first to charge into Sauron's grasp, knowing that he wouldn't survive it. Aragorn's lineage was made irrelevant by that act, he earned the right to be king.
You are correct in your recollection that Aragorn had no intention of pressing his claim to the throne. In Rivendell, Elrond reminds him that he has the power to defeat the enemy, and he replies, "I do not want that power. I have never wanted it." I interpret "never wanted it" to mean that he was always aware of his lineage. Indeed, it's likely that Elrond told him of it as a youth. He was raised in Rivendell, after all. So, I think he knew that he had a claim, but he didn't want it.
Absolutely! Aragorn became the rightful king because of his actions and his character, not merely because of his bloodline.
That's the movies. In the books he always intended to claim. Elrond told him he couldn't have Arwen unless he became King of Gondor and Arnor.
The movies changed this. Partly because modern mainstream audiences have little respect for someone who wants to be king.
When Boromir asked how long a time must pass before a Steward could become a King, if the King did not return, Denethor replied, 'Few years, maybe, in other places of less royalty. In Gondor ten thousand years would not suffice'. So if the stewards would not take kingship, there really was no one else.
I like being reminded how honourable Faramir is.
Love his character in the books.
"You don't vote for kings!"
"Well in Gondor we sort of do."
Well Wessex basically voted for a king every time.
Also in Medieval Germany, the Holy Roman Emperor was an elected position!
Poland-Lithuania was an elective monarchy
As well as in Ancient Macedon, where the aristocracy had to accept the claim of the pretender. Philipp II and Alexander the Great became kings because they had the support of the aristocracy.
There are orcs on both sides 🤷🏼♂️
Tolkien was aware that the citizens of medieval London claimed the ancient right to acclaim - not choose - the King of England. This was never quite formally acknowledged by the monarchy but never denied either.
How does this right came to be if it wasnt acknowledged by the monarchy?
@@TheGahta Blood lineages having a claim to land/throne is a pretty old tradition. It makes sense that the monarchs without that kinda claim wouldn't want to lose their power over it
@@BierBart12 this has nothing to do with what he or i wrote
Its about the alleged right to acclaim a monarch not land rights
I remember Aragorn saying that he did not want any strife in Gondor, only strive with the enemy's councils. I think it was at the Last Debate. Not sure. But he said he did not want to claim the kingship while there was doubt of who would be victorious. So, he didn't want to claim the kingship and caus a civil war. I think that's why he did not claim the kingship in all the decades preceding, as well.
honestly, with a publicist or PR team, he could have slowly won the people over in that entire time, just by showing his heart and soul through his exploits
@@recurvestickerdragon Unless Denethor considered such to be sedition and took the field against him.
Thank you for giving us Deep Geeks something to escape with. I know this is a fun job for you but it means a lot for us. Again we appreciate all you do.
Hear hear.
Hear hear !
In a subtly tragic way, Sauron's malicious psychological subversion of Denethor could be considered another example of evil harming itself, as he ultimately eliminated one of Aragorn's most stalwart political opponents before he even had a chance to oppose him.
Excellent observation, it never occurred to me that Sauron's manipulation of Denethor's palantir ultimately led to Aragon becoming king unopposed.
The question is, however, would Denethor have even been a political opponent absent the machinations of Sauron, or would he rather than his son, acted to put Aragorn on the throne?
The Dunedain Rangers of the North were living around the lands where Arnor used to be. Gondor didn't even know about them, which was how Aragorn, as Thorongil, didn't need to claim his place as Chieftain of the Dunedain Rangers or as a direct descendant of High King Elendil in order to lead a military action for Gondor to strike against Umbar. Rulership by the Stewards was entrenched in Gondor's culture because they didn't believe that there were any remaining descendants of the line of kings. Aragorn *earned* his kingship by leading Gondor to victory over Mordor. Which meant a *lot* more to the people of that time than some ancient claim and ancient artifacts so many generations removed from their present day.
HE WAS TOO BUSY IN THE WOODS AND SHACKIN UP WITH A BEAUTIFUL ELF DEMIGOD
"Kings just wanna have fu-un
oh, kings just wanna have fun!"
He was too classy to shack up
😂
@@johnkecktrue, was probably still enjoying himself talking and courting her
1/32 god. But still. 🙃
Aragorn earned his title as king regardless of his lineage. Denethor inherited his title as steward regardless of his incompetence.
Aragorn also refused to enter minas tirith after the battle of pellinor fields. He remained outside using his healing knowledge to tend the wounded. Only when the grateful populace asked him to did he enter the city and take the crown.
That's what's so great about Aragorn. He didn't earn his kingship through strength of arms but through compassion and a popular mandate.
Actually Denethor was rather wise and intelligent and ruled Gondor well for a long time, but he was old and things started looking bleaker and bleaker and he started using the Palantir which always showed true things but Sauron had control if it and he always showed him things that make the future seem more hopeless and after Boromir died he eventually just thought there was no chance to beat Sauron(which kinda was true, the ring getting destroyed was a hail mary) and kinda went mad and wanted to end it on his own terms
Nice explanation. One thing that is left out is the dynamic between Meneldil (son of Anarion) and Valandil (the youngest son of Isildur). Arnor had taken heavy casualties in the war of the last alliance; and in the disaster of Gladen Fields, 200 men (mostly Lords and high ranking officers of high numenorian decent) die with Isildur. Crucially, Isildur 3 eldest son, and among them the eldest, Elendur (who is described as the most like Elendil and the eldest of second generation of the house of Elendil) all died. As a result Valandil who is 7 years old becomes king. Arnor is weaker compared to Gondor and now the Majestic figures of Isildur and Elendur are dead. I don't think Meneldil (who is said to be the last surviving person born on Numenor itself) would've accepted the a 7 year old boy to be the High king
Of course, Ioreth could tell you all about the prophecy that "The hands of the king are the hands of a healer"; she's very well acquainted with the gossip and stories about the city, and as she was saying to her kinswoman just the other day, it's very important that the future king be.............
Kingship via senior nurse acclamation. Probably not the worst method out there.
He'd watched Game of Thrones - and so knew how well these things typically work out.
Thanks for the explanation. I remember some of that from the books, but it was muddy. If they offered classes in this mythology, you would be a definitive authority.
The Dead Men did not answer to the King of Gondor. They’d sworn an oath to Isildur, and only his heir could redeem them. A King of Gondor descended from Meneldil would have had no power over them.
Good point.
Thought that was what Elrond said to Aragorn when handing over Andúril (in the films)?
"You need more men"
"There are none left"
"There are those who dwell in the mountain"
Aragorn: "They have no loyalty. They answer to no-one"
Elrond (unveiling the sword) "They will answer to the King of Gondor"
I don't remember how it went in the books.
@mrD66M In the book, Aragorn receives Anduril while they ate still in Rivendell, long before he had any idea he'd even be in Rohan.
I got excited when I saw there was a new video. Then equally excited that I get to watch this again
This is an EXCELLENT explanation!
I'd love an extra long Tom Bombadil special from in deep geek, he's mentioned in other videos but nothing dedicated, love your work!
I think the key events that led to situation at the time of the War of the Ring are
1) Valandil not claiming the high kingship; I do wonder though what might have happened had one of his older brothers survived the disaster of the Gladden Fields
2) The rejection of Arvedui's claim to the throne even though he had married the daughter of Gondor's king Ondoher in addition to being king of Arnor
3) The apparent lack of interest on the part of the Stewards of Gondor in trying to find a suitable king, even if that meant searching in the north.
Consequently, Aragorn had to not only be of the line of Isildur but demonstrate that he, as his actions showed, was clearly the man to become king.
So glad your reuploading!!! I miss your older LOTR videos and loved rewatching them and going down a rabbit hole
Making Aragorn a "reluctant King" in the films was one of the changes that really bugged me. The reluctant king is an old and worn out trope by now, and it makes it seem Aragorn was hiding from his responsibilities.
That's actually a really interesting question I had never considered! Thanks for posing and answering it!
Tolkien knew history and stories and he knew in real life Kings became Kings because that claimed to be when nobody could/would stop them. The stories, the fiats, etc... came after that :)
"He snuck into Minas Tirith and healed some people." Most underratedly described part of the story 🤣
"Why should you be king?"
"I just led the army that defeated Sauron and preeminently ended the threat of Mordor."
"Fair enough."
The memory of the Kin-strife probably also weighed on the minds of the previous chieftains of the Dunedain and they didn't want to pursue their claim without acclimation by the people, which as Robert point's out, needs the Steward's and the people's rubber stamp.
quite, the memory of the Kin-Strife was the main reason why the stewards began their solo rule, there were several possible candidates in Gondor, but none of them had enough support to be proclaimed king. In order to prevent another civil war, it was decided to have the steward rule in the name of the king.
You ever think about covering the Dune novels/movies?
I’d love this
Honestly would be great especially considering the shows out soon
That sounds nice
There's a lot to cover there, for sure
This may be your best video yet. To the point, but gets in the most relevant facts. Very well done.
As a fan of the movies but never read the books I appreciate this channel so much. One day I’ll read the books (I hope)
If audiobooks are more your speed, try the versions read by Andy Serkis. He's got a great voice for narration and the main characters all come across as quite distinct.
Be warned that it starts slowly, and that the section following Frodo and Sam getting into Mordor is dark. But it is well worth it to presevere.
Oh, and the 1981 BBC radio production is a worthy compromise - very faithful to the books, and well acted and narrated. Ian Holm, who played Bilbo in the movies, played Frodo in the radio production.
thank you for all the amazing content, old and new. looking forward to the new versions of the Legends of Middle-Earth series, those helped me fall asleep like nothing else, especially the Glofindel and Earendil one (that's a big compliment, in case that wasn't clear :D)
Brilliant exposition. I have been reading Tolkien for years and hadn't fully understood that. Thank you
Hey I really love your content and was wondering if you ever thought about uploading these videos as podcasts on Spotify, I would love to just listen to it on the way home or while I’m playing something. Anyways I really love your videos you’re doing a great job ❤️
UA-cam premium has more features than Spotify. I download these in the UA-cam app to listen to on my commute.
You could do youtube to mp3 converter in the meantime
Thank you, your videos are my favourite. I rewatch all your content all the time!
Crazy, I was just wondering about this the other day. This was an immensely satisfying answer.
This explanation so perfectly captures the reality of medieval politics. It makes me want to re-play Crusader Kings 2.
1:09 was the title picture for the return of the king game, and for years, I didn’t realize that the tiny shield was head head armor.
The way I understand it is, that nobody knew Isildurs heir was alive and couldn't be outright with it because Sauron would've had him killed as a youngster. So for his safety, Elrond kept this from him and just about everyone else. Rings of Power would probably have you believe that it was his older sister Neverbeenborn was the heir..
Well of course, they put aside the older sister because of patriarchal systems of oppression and hetero-normative bias, because his sister was also queer. So they clearly erased her from the lore and ROP will show us the true Herstory
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy I just had a stroke
@@Infrared01 that's a patriarchal medical condition caused by familial trauma
Imagine being handed a broken sword by an immortal that tells you that it will help you be king. Oh and the being who wants you dead is also immortal...good luck..lol buck me
You guys fr gotta get off your corners of 4chan and reddit, rings of power is far from some sjw work, yall only feel that way because you're threatened whenever someone of not your demographic is given any spot of significance in a work 🙄😒
To paraphrase Monty Python, he's the king because they voted for him.
I didn’t vote for him! 😂
Unlike that other fellow who only became king because some watery tart threw a sword at him.
The King ranging around the countryside UNRECOGNISED reminds me of that hilarious scene with the peasants in "MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL"!!! 🤣🤣
Faramir was always the 'clever' one in his family. Wise, insightful and aware. 👍 So, Aragorn does become the supported King, and that's the most important thing...
M 🦘🏏😎
Ya know, I thought from watching yall and a variety of other youtubers, I was aware of enough LOTR lore to no longer be interested in your channel or those other youtubers. This video proved me wrong. Thanks for reposting
Because the lost king in exile is a great fantasy trope.
Remember, Tolkien started a lot of those tropes!
@@jonesnori He didn't start that one.
@@croydthothNo? Okay, my mistake. Thanks.
I only got into the Lotr universe a week ago and your content really helps me to dive in deeper, thanks for the fantastic work :) Also your intro gives such a classy and sophisticated vibe, I just love it.
I just read the books for the first time recently and Faramir is the best character in the story. Aside from Tom Bombadil
While it is true that the Gondorian line of kings ended, which in turn led to the Stewards taking over, the Stewards from the beginning were installed to rule the city until the rightful king returns, it was always meant as a temporary position. The problem is that by the time the Gondorian line ended the kingdom of Arnor was no more, as it was already split into 3, and so the line of northern kings were too busy stabilizing their own realm and fighting off the Witch King of Angmar to venture south and claim the Gondorian crown. Moreover Gondor had its own problems with Sauron, with the conquests of Minas Ithil(which turned into Minas Morgul) and East Osgiliath. So it's not so much that the Gondorians rejected a northern king but rather that no northern king had the ability to come south and claim the throne.
Aragorn technically could have claimed his crown right from the start, however, him being the last heir of the line of the Numenorian kings(both north and south) meant he was #1 on Sauron's hit list. Thus Elrond hid him from the world throughout his childhood and even as an adult he remained in the shadows, wandering across middle earth by himself, assisting men wherever he could(Gondor, Ithilien, the north, etc) but always under a hidden identity, never revealing his true name. Thus the reason he didn't claim the Gondorian throne the moment he reached adulthood had less to do with his claim or even with Gondor and more with exposing himself to Sauron and not trusting that Gondor was powerful enough to fend off Sauron's full might, which most certainly would have come had Aragorn reclaimed the throne.
This is one of those points where the movies tend to confuse people not familiar with the books(and you too apparently), as none of the Stewards actually had an issue relinquishing their title in favor of the rightful king returning to reclaim his throne. It was only Denethor himself that did have an issue with it. An issue that actually begun when Aragorn became captain of the Gondorian guard under Denethor's father Ecthelion. Denethor suspected Aragorn's true identity and thus became jealous of him and hating him for potentially stealing his inheritence(the Stewardship of Gondor once his father dies). Ecthelion himself didn't have any issue with it, but he didn't know Aragorn's true identity and Aragorn didn't reveal it. Thus Aragorn, realizing this, chose not to fight with Denethor and in doing so weaken the men of the west, and instead leave Gondor altogether after his famous victory over the corsairs of Umbar. By the way, it was this captainship that Faramir referred to in his speech, not the latest battle as Aragorn was not the leader of the Gondorian armies, merely those that came with him as reinforcements.
I just love these videos and the way they're told. Absolutely fantastic content
This should have been redone rather than re-upped as-is, since there are things to improve, like “Ardevui”.
I love seeing some of the older videos again or for the first time. Thank you!
Love your videos! Would love to hear your take about Frodo’s seemingly prophetic dreams and premonitions!
I was having a really bad day and then I see you posted this. It helps a bit. Thanks xx
I check my phone everyday. Waiting for a new Lord of the rings video from you. I absolutely love your channel and appreciate all the hard work that you do and the small details you provide research and context for in your videos.
Gondor has no king, Gondor needs no king.
The real question is: why didn't anyone of Isildur's line claim the Gondor throne back when Meneldil's (solo) line first died off? -I'd imagine they would have been freaking out at the time and would have been a lot more accommodating.
They tried. That's when the quote at 3:39 was given. Those in Gondor didn't recognize the claims of the line of Isildur, so they first gave the crown to a more distant relative (but still descended from Meneldil), and when he died (well, charged into Minas Morgul at the Witch-King's taunting and was never heard of again), the Stewards were placed in power. Beyond that, the northern kingdoms failed in exactly same timeframe (the last king of Gondor went to help, but too late, arriving after Arthedain's fall to the Witch King), so when the line of Meneldil's line failed, the line of Isildur had already been reduced to chieftains ruling over a scattered folk in the wild. The Stewards, of ancient noble lineage themselves, would have seemed more noble and worthy.
@@thomasrinschler6783 I don't understand what's your point.
The period you are talking about is obviously (even by your own post) before all of Meneldil's (and non Isildur) recognized descendants were dead.
There's a big difference between begrudgingly accepting a royal Dunedain with lineage back to your founding kings, and being king-less in society/world where kings apparently have a profound/mystical impact and effect.
@@LENZ5369 But if the King of Arnor had already been rejected once by Gondor (with the Steward of that time playing a chief part), why would they think their claim or chances were any better after their own kingdom had been destroyed and they were now kings of nothing at all? Having the Stewards rule ostensibly in the name of Anarion's line was the choice Gondor went with as the only consensus they could come to on who should rule after their last king was killed. For Isildur's line to have claimed the throne again would only have stirred up controversy and would probably have been rejected again, so neither Isildur's line nor Gondor ever really considered that as an option.
The circumstances that led to Aragorn being in a position to claim the throne were entirely unique and hadn't ever been present earlier.
@@Wolfeson28 When they rejected Arvedui, they still had a junior branch of Anarion -whose head was powerful and accomplished, and already with a male heir.
Earnur dying without children would have been very unexpected -at that point; the issue was no longer fussing over which flavour of ice cream was best; it was whether they ever got any ice cream at all.
Given that these were (absolute) monarchies; the idea that rational actors would leave the throne vacant (of even a puppet) -is unlikely...frankly; short of a long plot started by Voronwe (and carried on but all future Stewards) to usurp the throne -it doesn't make much sense.
@@LENZ5369 This is what the Appendices say about the succession issue after Earnur's death: "Now the descendants of the kings had become few...So it was that no claimant to the crown could be found who was of pure blood, or whose claim all would follow; and all feared the memory of the Kin-Strife, knowing that if any such dissension arose again, then Gondor would perish. Therefore, though the years lengthened, the Steward continued to rule Gondor, and the crown of Elendil lay in the lap of King Earnil in the Houses of the Dead, where Earnur had left it." Also keep in mind the line "...to most men in Gondor, the realm in Arthedain seemed a small thing, for all the lineage of its lords", which shows the general attitude of Gondor toward Arnor, even before the kingdom was destroyed.
So there were still distant relatives of Anarion's line alive at the time, but they were all so distant and their claims were so weak that none of them could garner decisive support. The heirs of Isildur (if anyone in Gondor even knew the line still existed ~75 years after the fall of Arnor), would have been considered just one more among those fringe options with a weak claim. The leaders of Gondor feared disunity in a key moment more than they feared going without a king, so the compromise they could all get behind was to sidestep the issue by leaving the throne officially vacant, but letting the Stewards effectively rule as kings. To use your ice cream analogy, the leaders of Gondor were stuck with a choice between a bunch of weird exotic flavors, couldn't agree on one of them, so they just went with vanilla to avoid controversy.
Absolute top content mate! Like well earned. I have actually asked myself this question when reading the books.
Im in deep invested in this channel!.. yer awesome 👌.. keep up the great work!
Nice! I just finished watching Lord of the rings with my kids it was their first time so it was super fun.
One of your best. Well done. mate.
The Gondor royal line ended, and Aragorn is heir to the throne of Arnor. The two royal lines came from King Elindil, but that does not automatically mean the heir of one line can inherit the throne of the other
Faramir: Aragon is pretty great y'all. Should he be the King?
Everyone: Yeah!
He didn't become king because he claimed to be one. He became King because he proved he was worthy of being their king.
this was excellent. Constantly learn new riches and subtleties from your analyses.
Still feels weird, then, that the Stewards held on for over a thousand years, without just making themselves a new line of kings, when there was basically no reason to believe that any survivor of Anarion's line would appear. I can get that they might disqualify Aragorn, or another claimant from Arnor, but if no descendants of Anarion had appeared, in 1,000 years, even if just to be disproven, then there was no reason to believe any existed, so it's surprising the Stewards remained merely placeholders, especially with how ignorant most laypeople could be, in their era.
That is mentioned in the books. Faramir mentions Boromir had asked Denethor basically "how long until stewards become kings?" And Denethor said basically "in places less important, not long, but here, never."
@@dimitrikemitsky I do get that, as well as tradition is important, but after 1,000 years, when they openly say that they KNOW no heir is coming, because none exist, they'd move on. One just thinks that, in much the same way as Aragorn got the throne because he gave the people reason to support him, some other popular Steward, themselves somewhat related to the line, would have been able to convince the people to accept it. My only real logic here is that, after so many centuries without a king, the people didn't really remember having one, and it probably wasn't a long list, in the thongs an acting Steward couldn't do, that a new king would be allowed to, so they were happy to jeep their Steward a Steward, and let him rule as he/they had been, for centuries.
@@venkelos6996 It's because of three reasons.
The first is that the people didn't forget they once had both a King of Gondor and High King of the Two Kingdoms. Even though the people can't remember having one, the legend of the Kings descended from Numenor could be said to almost be akin to a creation myth of the Western Kingdoms, with 'demi-gods' coming from across the sea to rule them. There is a religious aspect to it, and too much of Gondor's traditions and legends tie into the Kings. Actually, all of them pretty much do, including with the promise of their eventual return.
The second reason is oaths have a powerful effect in Middle-Earth. It's similar to the Irish concept of Geass, a promise or restriction, that has absolute effect if it is broken. Oaths had the effect of essentially bad karma if broken, but the magnitude of this effect could be increased if you made an oath to or upon something with real 'power'. The noble sons of Numenor are included among those, as they had the blessing of the Valar. For example, look at the fate of the Men of Dunharrow. They broke their oath to Isildur, and so were cursed to undeath for thousands of years. You cannot break such an oath, and the Stewards Oath was one of them, where they swore to safekeep the throne in anticipation of the return of the King. Rejecting a claimant technically didn't break their oath, as part of the job would be to deny the throne to potential usurpers. If they genuinely believed there was no worthy King, that would be within their right. If they did break the oath by taking the throne themselves, disaster would certainly fall upon not only them, but any surviving of their line and perhaps all of Minas Tirith if the city supported the decision.
The third and perhaps most practical reason is that Gondor as shown in the movies is not really that contiguous a kingdom. It's actually made up of various states and lordships, all of whom owe allegiance to Minas Tirith by tradition and oath. The second point comes in again, where many noble families and officials made oaths to the line of Elendil. But whether by oath or by political influence, the Stewards would actually harm their right to rule if they proclaimed themselves King. It would signal to the lesser lords that the time has come to see to their own fortunes and become kings themselves of their own lesser realms. The veneer of paying homage to the throne rather than the Stewards would be gone. You can argue that the Stewards would have had to maintain political and economic influence to command the allegiance of all Gondor anyway, and that is true. But it is definitely not worth any potential political strife, when in the current status quo, the Stewards are already Kings in all but name. Note that Minas Tirith and Osgiliath are pretty much the only cities under direct control of the Stewards. While populous, rich and powerful, they are still bastion cities built to defend against Sauron's armies, and located at the edge of Gondor's territory. The Stewards need to control the rest of Gondor by political and traditional, perhaps even mystic (oaths) means. They cannot afford expeditionary armies to bring any rebellious territories of Gondor to the west back into the fold.
Another thing to note is that all nobility of Gondor are descendants of Numenor and a lot of them live maybe like double the lifespan of normal men(i dont really remember and they did live shorter and shorter i guess) but 1000 years is less generations than it would be for us most likely, and yeah its just that oaths and tradition have a lot of power in middle earth, also at end of the day stewards were basically kings in all but name so why would they rock the boat if they thought that king was never gonna appear again if they try to change things they might just get people rebelling if they just let things be they are kings in all but name
Beautifully stated. Well done.
I love this channel so much 😊
" Authority is not given you to prevent the return of the King.......Steward!"
Feels like the easiest explanation by far (even if this isn't supported by the source material) is that the Stewards were loathe to relinquish their place after a long time. If you spend a millennium "keeping the seat warm" for someone, eventually that starts to feel like *your* seat. But Aragorn's claim was really quite well backed up. You don't even have to take Aragorn's word for it on the lineage thing, Elrond literally was alive and at least semi-involved for all of it, all the way back from Elros through to raising Aragorn. He was the heir to Isildur, which lacking any heirs to Anarion is clearly the best claim to the throne of Gondor, and even if heirs to Anarion were known, he would *still* be the heir to the elder brother of those co-kings.
I think he didn't claim the kingship because Gondor was actually a very small part of the world. And he was doing more good going about in the world fighting Sauron's followers. He was keeping people safe. The city of Gondor was only part of his kingdom. He wasn't going to claim kingship until the fight against sauron can be brought to a head.
he was.
"heavy is the head that wears the crown"
Sir Thomas Mallory
i like that stutter you did when you said "there is more" when referring to the dead men that only the High King of Gondor may hold their oaths fulfilled. I remember when Elrond spoke to Aragorn in the mountains
It's interesting, through the detailed history of how Gondor thrived under kings of Numenorean descent, but withered even under the best stewardship of the most noble men who *weren't* directly descended from Numenoreans (or at least from Elendil's line), Tolkien seems to be suggesting that it wasn't only symbolic that the True King needed to be enthroned for the wellbeing of the kingdom, but possibly that there was some kind of magic in the bloodline of Elendil (the magic of Melian perhaps?) which was literally holding the kingdom together, and that no matter how competent or noble a Steward might be, they just wouldn't have the Eru-bestowed power to keep Gondor (or Arnor) intact.
Wonderful and thoughtful explanation!
Wonderful video! Great job!
When England didn’t have a clear claimant to the throne through lineage, they gave it to someone else. Apparently, Gondor wouldn’t do this, for some reason. So they ended up with a crazy Steward.
It was because the stewards themselves refused to take the crown of the king. Even The overly proud Denethor said when boromir said why aren't you king "I am the steward to the king." That is why
@@LKMNOP I understand that. But that doesn’t happen in actual history. Which is why I invoked the English monarchy. Sure, Cincinnatus and Washington sort of refused the throne, but they are the exceptions.
Aragorn aside from coming from a long line of Kings, he also shares with Arwen the blood of men, elves and the Ainur for they were both descended from the line of Luthien and Beren of old.
The most important of the speech was the 'yea' by the people, the traditional aclamation so important in medieval assencions
There's also the matter of what would be suggested to Sauron by a northern claimant to seek the crown of Gondor. An attempt to reunite the two kingdoms would imply possession of the One Ring or at least a desire to settle matters once and for all. It would have been foolish for a claimant to attempt unification without being ready for the final war with Sauron.
It took almost 10 minutes to say, "Because he didn't want to be."
He didn’t want to be, until the people wanted him, until he proved to them why he was the right choice through his actions and not just his bloodline. The video gave interesting and relevant details, it wasn’t rambling or needlessly extended if that’s what you’re implying Oolong!
I don't think this was a true answer in the books. He did want to be.
No he wanted to be king in the books and it was in fact one of the conditions Elrond put for him if he wanted to marry Arwen, but people Denethor wouldnt accept his claim and people would have likely rejected him as well - until he fought to defend Minas Tirith and they saw him healing people after Denethor was already dead
Yes more LotR videos please! These are great!
Ah, Robert, your videos are wonderful. But you missed a chef’s kiss level pun at 5:10.
You said, “Aragorn couldn’t exactly walk into Minas Tirith and claim the crown.”
You should have said “Aragon did not simply walk into Mordor.” 🤣
Thanks Robert ❤
Great content beautifully delivered
Is there a video explaining more about the dead marshes?
The dead marshes are a result of the battle of dagorlad. The penultimate battle of the last alliance. It was there Saurons froces were annihilated and he hid in baradur and was besieged.
Very well done.
I mean, it would have let him marry Arwen sooner. That would sure motivate me.
One does not simply walk up to Minas Tirith and claim the throne
What's the name of the image\painting at 5:00? Great video!
Not gonna lie, I'm only watching this video for the Viggo of it all. Good job putting him in the thumbnail. I already know the answer 😊
You need to do a video estimating how many pounds of produce Merry and Pippin steal from Farmer Maggot in a year. Extrapolated from how much they said they took in the weeks preceding the events of the fellowship.
So you forgot to answer the question....? 😅
But the answer is that he'd need both the support from the steward, _and_ he needed to _show_ that he was worthy.
Neither of which would have been true if he'd just dropped in on Denethor at the start.
Even with all things being considered, like how would Gondor deny Aragorn...yall got a better claimant?
The Dunedein are like Jon Snow in the North and Gondor itself is like Poland. Regencies don’t tend to want their king back in an ironic fashion. Aragorn essentially had to earn the throne by beating Mordor in a fight like a giant faction side quest. Him being a Ranger. The elves that made his family sword reforged it and gave it back to him and he had to get all the other trinkets randomly gifted to him. Imagine doing all that in real life and being 90 when you’re done.
Great video...again