Weird No-Start Diagnosis on a Weirder Car! -Pt1
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- 1986 Volkswagen Quantum Synchro ( a whaaaaaat???) with problems that I have to fix even before I can get to the main complaint of a cranking and sometimes non-cranking no start!
Part 2 is here: • Weird No Start Diagnos...
FASTTEC no start video is here: • No Start Diagnosis FAS...
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Great video! It is really great to see another tech who is trying to fully diagnose the problem (s) before just making guesses and running back and forth to the parts store without regards to the customers honor or wallet! This is exactly why I now have my own shop. I have been an ASE certified master auto technician for well over 15 years. It is very rare to see other techs these days who know and do diagnostics and repair by the book. KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK ( and awesome videos)!!!
There was no electrical switch on the clutch pedal lever on VW"s then. The responsibility was on you. Saved VW a nickel, one less thing to go wrong. Also, this was before the Audi 5000 hoo ha broke out in the United States.
Can get you off the railroad tracks if your motor stalls and won't restart, so that's nice.
Speaking of Audi 5000, maybe you didn't notice the VW Quantum Syncro wagons around you (Colorado had more than most places), but if you remember the Audi 4000 and 5000, this is a sibling. Same engine, gearbox. Rear suspension was different from the Audi 4000 because of the cargo floor, IIRC, but both were IRS.
you are absolutely the best most informative mechanic i have ever seen or heard anywhere, diagnosing that last car thought me quite a lot about troubleshooting
Another great example (if ever one was needed) to not just replace expensive parts! Well done Matt.
"Colder than witches huggynanny on a brass broom" that's a new one to me haha
Very patient diagnosis bro!
Nice job getting that started...I always enjoy watching your diagnosis repair videos!
+hllywd964 Thanks man, I enjoy doing them!
Great to see a new video Matt! It takes time to do all the testing but it can save so much time and money in the long run.
+The Disgruntled Mechanic Indeed it does but this from our favorite 98%er lol??? Dude you need to change your slogan hahahaha. It totally saves time and money over swap and pray!!
+Schrodingers Box Well 1 thing I can tell you, I have been watching you for quite awhile and you never got nor will get a thumbs down from this 98%!!!
+The Disgruntled Mechanic Lol well I still say you are a 2%er in sheeps clothing!!! But thanks bro- this one is going to get interesting in next video, and I'm sure you like seeing the older cars anyway lol!
+Schrodingers Box yes i do enjoy older cars and a lot of older cars with a clutch, had no safety engage switch and could be started in gear. also as far as 98%'er wait until I make video of me diagnosing an electrical problem. The truth will come out! haha!
The Disgruntled Mechanic Well the fact you are trying to "diagnose" a problem right there makes it contradictory but I'm curious to see you go at it. Let me know when it's up and I'll take a look. If you just guess at parts trying to fix it then you win, you're a 98%er but somehow I don't think thats what we'll see....
Hi Matt this car has Bosch KE Fuel injection (the grey electronic box next to fuel metering head is for fuel trimming control) check distributor cap and rotor arm before getting into fuel system cheers Sandy
The Quantum Syncro was a North American market version of the Passat (B2 platform). We didn't get the Passat badge until the platform after that one (B3).
The fuel system looks like a Bosch Jetronic system; possibly with electronic control (the little grayish box on the front side of the fuel distributor). The sixth line is likely for the cold start injector. If at any point you need help with this system, please give me a shout! I'm quite familiar with them; I used to rebuild fuel distributors for an independent Mercedes shop. They're a bit complicated, but nothing insane. If it is an electronically controlled Jetronic system (as opposed to fully mechanical), then it has a Lambda sensor in front of the cat where you'd expect an O2 sensor, and tuning the fuel system requires monitoring the Lambda sensor voltage.
That looked like a classic cold start injector failure. At the Benz shop, our typical diagnostic procedure involved attempting to start the car from a dead cold while someone smacked the cold start injector with a screwdriver or small hammer. If it suddenly kept running with no throttle input, then replace the cold start injector (at a cost of about $500, mind you...).
The cold start injector is the only electronically controlled injector on the engine. It acts on the discretion of the ECT sensor and AIT sensor, if present. Sometimes you can remove it from the intake manifold/cylinder head (location dependent on design) and submerge the pintle assembly (if metal) overnight in a strong solvent (Seafoam, mineral spirits, engine parts cleaner, etc.). If it has a plastic pintle, use lighter solvents, and I'd recommend cleaning by hand with Q-tips.
Hopefully this helps you out some! Let me know if you need more. :)
Thanks bro! Yes I have researched it and your information is exactly congruent with what I have found. I shall play around with this over next couple days but right now car starts and runs every time!!! Pisses me off that it won't fail lol!!
Schrodingers Box
Haha, awesome! Glad you were able to find information!
It sounds like there may have been a series of issues all contributing--extra cold temperatures, long soak time, weak battery, and faulty cold start injector. Those Jetronic systems were so damn picky about everything! I would recommend, if you have the time and interest, to clean up as much of the wiring as you reasonably can. Pull a few connectors off, being careful of brittle plastic, and inspect the terminals on both sides of the connection. This was long before the days of mandatory weatherproof connectors! ;D
If you still have the car for a few days, give it a fresh tank of Premium Grade gasoline, and feed it two large bottles of Techron Concentrate before that fill up.
That's a really cool and unique car! I hope to see it back on the road again. If the owner decides to ditch it, I'd consider making a trip out there to make an offer. :)
+rhkips I dont think he will like the premium fuel idea;)
Fun watching you work on something older like this, definitely not where you like to work but it's very entertaining and I can't wait to see the next part of this.
True that lol!! I WANT MY SCANTOOL hahaha!!!
Usually the older a car the much simpler to repair but this one totally doesn't follow that formula for sure!! It has stuff that almost looks "retro futuristic", and lots and lots of it!
+Schrodingers Box Come springtime here in ontario I'm going to try my used otc genesis which actually does odb1 & 2, on my '85 camaro z28 with 305 tpi. I'm dying to see what live data the engineers thought relevant to share at that time. The car has cold start issues. Your videos are great. Thank you and keep 'em coming.
Finally Matt, waited a while for another good quality video. Thumbs up!!
+Danny Danny Yeah got things going on at work and harder to have time for videos sorry. Its about to get worse actually...
Hi mate. I have had several VWs and had a lot of problems with a relay that would have dry solder on the inside. I have had this in three different cars. It would run quite nicely and than all of a sudden die. The relay would make the ignition, but did not allow the starter motor to operate. I would open up the relay, and resolder the contact spades, and all would be lovely. That car that you have there has an Audy motor in it, as you will have seen. That has been a very successful and fast motor in Europa. The pump is most likely a centrifugal mechanical pump, that is pretty bomb proof but does need clean filters. Also have a look at the fuel cap.
Bosch K-jet or CIS. The smaller line from the fuel distributor is the cold start valve. Super simple, super reliable. Clean the idle stabilisation valve with brakeclean (the big cigar looking valve). The idle circuit can sometimes have issues. Check for a single spade terminal connected to a temp sensor towards the front of the inlet manifold and remove it. If the idle changes or the car dies the system is ok. If nothing happens then there's a problem in the warm up circuit (often with a poor connection at that spade terminal) - that information is based on the European variant of the system, US may be different.
Everything you need to know about the system s over on Huw Powell's webpage audi.humanspeakers.com/
I just noticed that your channel has grown quite big with 40+k subscribers. I can be wrong but I think your scientific approach to diagnosing problems, as opposed to "we have to removed these bolts, buzz, buzz, use this special tool, blah, etc", is becoming quite popular. I remember the first shop I've worked at had a small sign saying "We'll fix your cars right cause we have Phd's not ase's". The owner was a brainiac and a former Bosch engineer. I'm willing to bet he had inputs into designing the CIS system in that car.
+nijoel Oh man I love that sign!!! I need that hahahaha!
Yes the channel has grown tremendously. I "celebrated" my 20K subscriber only about 7 months ago so the growth is more than linear for sure.
I hope you are right- that the diagnostic approach is getting more popular. but it is still a far, far cry from parts changer mentality. My objective is to try to be available for all those people out there, no matter how few, who do want to devote study and effort to achieving higher levels in auto repair.
Great video. Reminds me of how I diagnose a software bug at my job.
+Harrichael Good point!! ALL diagnostics are the same, actually- whether it's plumbing, HVAC, software, automotive, medical, etc...
A logical process- in fact the same one, is always employed. The steps may be different but the methodology is identical. If it isn't done logically, it is not troubleshooting.
Hey Matt, I like the starter bypass test with the screwdriver...nice.
BTW that is one sweet whip! The 5-cylinder Quantum Syncro (4WD!) was just about the top-of-the-line VW sold in the States. The Bosch mechanical fuel injection is pretty nuts...very old-school Euro design. Amazing to see one still alive haha
+motoYam82 hahaha Thanks Ivan.Sorry haven't been able to check you and Eric out lately.... word is there is a testlight video I would be interested in though hmmmmmmm????
+Schrodingers Box IDK I try to feature the test light in every one of my videos lol
+motoYam82 The test light is here to rule and rein the world forever!
South Main Auto Repair Lol- ok that does it... soon as I get a chance I am going to generate a condition that will show the testlight will fail to detect a condition that the load pro will succeed at!
No NO nO! That is all Dan Sullivan does is made up resistor input phony circuits! Real life baby, real life and you will see the test light succeed! Haha!
There were funny systems out then and slowly evolving to what we have today.Memories, memories of what used to be.Surprising amount of expertise in the comment section.Fast diagnosis on the cranking issue.
+Tom OConnor YES!!! The kind of cool thing about this car is "seeing" the precursors to what we have now!! It is actually like visiting a museum of automotive technology and looking at the "missing link" between completely basic mechanical and OBD-I
new to channel, but I like what I see no short cuts!!!!!
You won't see that on this channel!! If I take a shortcut its to speed up a procedure but never to just make a guess!!
BTW: Those cars didn't have the clutch starter switch installed.
that thing looks like fun, sarcasm. i owned quite a few GM cars from that same era. i must say that TBI fuel injection from that era was an easy, simple, and robust system. i actually liked it for it's simplicity. i even had a 1989 camaro with a slightly hopped up 350 TBI that i swapped in. it ran well and had good power for TBI. it had a bored out TBI, L89 heads, headers and a 3" cat-back exhaust
Hi Matt, it's the old K Jetronic Bosch system, could be KE, depends if it has any electrics, all done with pressure, has a warm up valve, auxillary air valve, cold start jet....i have worked on tons of these..just watching part 1 from Fred in UK
Matt, if you wil diagnose sticking injection plate and no other fuel delivery problems there is simplesr and cheapest fix. Just put a switch (this car has many of them enyway), witch manualy opens a cold injection valve. Open it when cranking and engine starts in no time. That valve is controled by ground. Done this long time ago to mine Audi 100 (5000 in USA). It was no start at all before manual switch, and became perfect cold starter after instaling it.
Thanks for Euro car video.
+Arvydas Kraftas Hey!!!! I wonder- could that be what that switch on the dashboard was???? Good thinking but I have a wiring diagram for this thing and if the problem is electrical I am sure I can reconnect to the CTS which controls operation of the cold start. But your idea is a solid plan B.
+Schrodingers Box Yes. The switch on the dash could be for cold start valve. And it could be even for starter control, because the ignition key was known as faulty one.
In mine car there was everything okey with CTS, but the PCM still didnt controled cold start valve. These PCM were also known as bugy ones.
Biggest problem may be sticking air plate for fuel control. When cranking the engine, there is not enought of air flow to lift the plate, so the "Crab" ( fuel distributor) do not inject fuel at all. After engine starts it runs great because the plate is now moving.
Oh yeah, Bosch K-Jetronic, lots of german cars from that era had 'em, i own a Ford Sierra which coincidentally is from the same era and had either a Solex 35EEIT carb or the K-Jetronic, they are a PITA for sure. Cheers man
This video remains me time when I was struggling with my own Mercedes-Benz W201 from 1987, with 2 litre 4cyl engine with KE-Jetronic fuel "incjection".
Hello Matt! Great stuff!!!! i'm only a 2:39 now, but i can already tell that this is a mechanical (well actually electromechanical) fuel injection by bosch, the name would be KE-Jetronic..
Cheers!
KE jetronic continuous flow injection, system pressure is controlled by the box on the side of the metering unit according to the lambda sensor.
Fuel injection system is a Bosch Jetronic, same as were used for Audi.
It's a bulletproof mechanical system, very reliable unless you open up the fuel distributor and starts messing with it in a dirty enviroment.
that is a Bosch CIS jetronic. the piece you are wondering about is called a fuel distributor. there are 6 lines coming from it, the 6th line is the cold start valve. try unplugging it and see if the car runs better. I've had two Vw/Audi 5 cylinders and the fuel distributor is voo-doo to me. If I remember correctly, theres a plate in the air box that meters the fuel...when I was way younger, we would always suspect the fuel distributor in diagnosing cars but weren't smart enough to prove it. Good luck..
+Jason Beattie Thanks!!! I will research it for sure! It actually seems unrelated to cold start according to owner but then again we was never able to keep it running more than 5 seconds and now I can't get it to not start and run.
Great info though- will look into this!
+Schrodingers Box the fuel metering plate doesn't generally cause a problem - much more likely in the control and cold start side of the system.
+Jason Beattie Yes quite common in Mercedes of that era as well, late 70s to late 80s also seen on Porsche, Volkswagen, Audi, BMW, Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Lotus, Ferrari, Peugeot, Renault, Volvo, Saab, DeLorean, etc... it's a continuous system (not pulses like on electronically-controlled piezo systems) which basically has a mechanical flap that is pushed by the intake air which is linked to a rod that reveals more or less opening slits to each fuel pipe, the fuel pipes are connected to fuel injectors (which are basically spray nozzles), the mixture can usually be adjusted by a long hex screwdriver in the center of the air flap linkage, overall the system is pretty reliable, however by the mid to late 80s some of the applications had additional electronic controls, enrichment valves etc... some of which can leak and fail. there are a bunch of useful diagrams on www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c107-sl-slc-class/1450844-bosch-k-jetronic-overview.html that might help to de-mystify the system a bit
the 5th hose is cold start injection. there is a 4mm adjust screw for the plate that determines fuel amount.be careful it needs to be clean and adjusted. the hole is on top between the fuel distributor and inlet tube.
Very Interesting video..Thank you for sharing...and all those comments from professionals...
The fuel injection system looks the same as my mk1 golf gti made by bosch it has a flutter valve in the air intake the fuel pressure goes though a regulator block which alters pressure depending on engine temp also had a 5th injector on the inlet manifold for cold start i may have a manual for the fuel system in pdf somewhere if you need a copy
Keep it up
Thanks Andrew
+Andrew Bishop Yes you are right. That is indeed exactly the direction I am going and I have all the info I need but thanks for the offer. Hopefully will have video for part 2 this weekend.
If you have a car that you think it is weird, I would look for a workshop manual online first. In that case you can study the car and look how it works. Saves you a lot of time. And it may come in handy next time.Here in Germany that car was not that weird btw ;-)
Good luck getting Auto Tap to talk to that system. That was near the end of OBD 1 which was REALLY anarchy. Most of the emission control was analog and mostly vacuum actuated, and Volkswagen was one of the most weird. Spoiler Alert| I feel reasonably confident that you will find rotted vacuum lines along your quest to get this beast running well and I am eagerly awaiting to see your resourcefulness in working on this rellic.
Werde ich nie besitzen eine andere Volkswagen wegen der beschissenen Autos, die sie während dieser Zeit gemacht, überhaupt!
Enjoyed the video. That car is almost ready for the junkyard, sadness.
+Ozzstar sad for owner, not me lol.
Hi UA-cam suggested this video I like what I see and hear so far so I have subscribed! Now I am going to indulge I to part to. Thanks for Shearing Steve from the UK 🙂
+Steven Watson If you are moving on to part 2 then I will tell you that you'll love this channel not just this series!
+Schrodingers Box Oh yes what I have done with SMA and motoYam82 is I watch the series then I go back to the first video and watch them from there and eventually get caught up. I can tell you what I have seen so far I will be doing the same with your channel 🙂 As a hobbyist I really enjoy this sort of thing and the fact that you don't just throw parts at it, if it wasn't for you guys doing videos like this I won't learn anything, so for that I thank you!
It sounds like a low fuel pressure! This system can be adjusted by adding or removing shims. it also has a electric pump at the tank to supply the main one! Good luck
You can tell by the colour of the fuel distributor which system it is K-basic and K lambda is black and KE- jetronic is usually unpainted aluminium, There are three KE system, KE jetronic, KE3jetronic and KE motronic. Your system is KE jetronic the "thing" with 2 screws on it at fuel distributor (facing front of the engine bay) is a pressure actuator. My first guess would be the coolant temperature sensor could also be cold start valve not give fuel.. KE system pressure is 73-80 psi there is also to check differential pressure more of that if you go so far with the diagnostic of this car. Great with a old German car hope we will have some more of old stuff.
Nice work so far. I guess you had this car waiting for you Quantum Mekanix !!!!
+g johan if temperature sensor is a suspect, just unplug "ECU" and run the car as a simple K-Jetronic. It will keep idle a little bit higher (~1k rpm) but it will run, probably a little bit too rich. That way you can quite simply eliminate electronic issues.
+g johan as soon as i saw the jetronic head my thought was a cold start valve. matt said it was cold there and you know that system needs that extra fuel when its cold.
Bummer, no part two? It was an interesting process so far.
+wyattoneable There will be... and it gets more interesting!
I'm pretty sure there has never been a clutch pedal switch on that car. Some cars simply don't have that; not even 2000s models. I suppose with a manual transmission you're supposed to know what you're doing.
Amazing! Others have also said similar. I can't believe that lol!!
+celeron55 pretty sure it varies by market - for example most older cars here in NZ didn't have a clutch or neutral safety switch, but it was a much earlier requirement in USA, but later models are a mix, since some models just have the max level safety available for all regions.
We dont like using such a thing like cluch switch in Europe. There is about 80 % manual cars. We can manage starting proces without any restrictions lol.
Is this one of those VW's with that weird "cold start valve" that's prone to failure? I used to have a Fox that had a similar fuel injection system. The two things that caused problems with starting and idling were the cold start valve and the coolant temp sensor.
Funny you mentioned a flux capacitor because the car kind of reminded me of a DeLorian lol
4:42 - I thought you meant putting the spanner across the terminals to test it...
Well good video as always with good diagnosis tips. However I suspect you will be seeing this Quantum Synchro again soon. Personally I've never found an automobile that fixes itself, besides Christine, with any real longevity.
+Martin Sigley Absolutely agreed. That is why I will try my best to duplicate the issue before returning to owner. Indeed the laws of entropy apply!!
Good god I tried looking up the Laws of Entropy but apparently that would take an entire class to understand. I'm gonna go with the simpler yet still applicable Murphy's Law which I believe still holds true in this situation.
Could it be that because of the constantly dying battery along with the bad connections and the really antiquated injection system, caused a perfect storm? Maybe the engine was barely starting, then the spark was too week along with not too good of compression and some dirty injectors causing it to flood constantly. I realize that's a complicated hypo, but your diagnostics seem to point towards fuel and poor electrical. To verify, maybe pulling a plug would show a very rich mixture along with a lot of carbon from bad compression. Just a thought. Thanks for the great videos.
Wow, you sure like the basket cases ha. Matt I wonder if you can get any clues in the freeze frame data.LOL
+Steve Rob only freeze frame I got was my butt by that garage door!!
I know how that kid feels, Im in the exact same boat. Parts for a mid 80s German car are not cheap. That engine is just really weird looking. My 944 is also fuel injected but it doesn't look like that. It has a fuel rail like more modern cars and a schrader valve on the end. By the way the adapter for that valve is a PIA to find. My fuel tester won't hook up to it so I have to buy an adapter online.
hey
one small comment connecting one side of the battery is the same as no connection at all
you cannot conclude anything from it ...
Propane heater to the rescue!... That switch laying on the dash is an early style smog switch. When you take the car to get a smog check, you turn the switch on. After you pass the smog check, then you turn the switch off... German engineering at its finest!
Really! Can you elaborate on the smog switch? I just googled and couldn't find any info.
Thanks man. I have a 1993 toyota corolla that idles extremely rough but runs good when its above idle i am thinking it could be the vacuum lines , throttle body, TPS, taking some carb cleaner , possibly ajusting the idle speed even. :)
16:50 No clutch pedal switches in some of the old VW/Audi products
I cannot imagine any reason there would be a short preventing you from charging the battery with only one post of the battery connected to the car (so long as both posts disconnected allows charging)...
Me neither. It was a matter of creating a proper scientific control, not of practical application. We use scientific methodology in this channel- it is not always the fastest and most efficient, it is simply about controlled environment and systematic variable elimination.
Good, that's the only reason that makes sense.
There is nothing scientific in disconnecting only one battery pole as there is no way to close circuit and draw any current from battery. It is actually opposite from any common sense logic...
MrNix90ks Ah another layman who doesn't understand the concept of negative control.
So sad.
Matt, Well done, this sistem es very importat look the presure the sistem and remenber the fuel pump is activated with a relay taquimetric and this operate with terminal -1 the ignition coil for be activated the relay.
Regards from Spain and congratulations for your 40k subs. =P
+Pablo A Thanks Pablo, always nice to hear from you.
Matt I think I still have the factory Bosh operation manual for cis systems. I can shoot you some thoughts but this would be a hard way to get you the info you need.
40k subscribers. Congrats
They have a Purple relay somewhere that controls the fuel system etc when you crank it and when its running, like an ECU does these days,...i don't think there is a prime on it, all the ignition electrics i think are in the distributor, with an external ignition module maybe on the inner wing, the fuel pressure should be quite high, i think static about 70 pounds psi, maybe 50 running...the thing with all the pipes on with the unions in is the metering unit, its connected to a plate in the air trunk that deflects and the injectors all spray all the time,,,,just vary in quantity, it looks like a Volkswagen Passatt.....from Fred UK
you did just about everything that one could check. so on that I am at a loss for where to go next except for the fuel filter issue!
I had no idea VW made Subaru's in the 80's! You learn something new everyday. But seriously, why is the radiator in the middle of the engine bay next to the brake booster? What the actual F VW?
Great work and so funny title ...LOLs
Thats a Passat "synchro is 4wd system from vw with haldex clutch," no idea why the have to call it wierd names for america.
The injector system has a disc float it musta have been stuck and your starter fluid with throttle open unseezed the injection quantity plate as i call it.
i think you need to service the injection system and a new fuel filter. swapronics for good mesure. The fuelpumps like to die they reside outside the tank and usually have a whining noise well befor they die off,if i am not mistaken its 7 bar the pump makes... do your own research thats just what is in my head from my 1978 gti golf
I see others also posted similar stuff already .
overall the injection system is bullet proof unless you nuke it with ethanol of course .
real simple, fuel line freeze up. warm garage and it thawed out. You did fix cable to starter problem.
+gary smith Ummm..... no. It is not a fuel line freeze up.
+gary smith Not fuel line freezing - the freezing point of petrol is something like -60c.
mrman17 exactly.I guess if there was water in the line or something but this issue has been going on since summer. Car hasn't been run in almost 3 months before I got it.
+Schrodingers Box While he's in the wrong area, he *may* have something. I would leave the car outside over night and try starting again the next day and see what happens. There is a chance that a mechanical part (in the fuel pump or the mechanical fuel injection for example) could have frozen, then thawed in the garage.
Also, double check the battery. This would be more important if it was a non-start, but the cold, especially when it hits freezing point, can cause odd problems.
Edit: posted this just as you posted your last reply about it being parked up/not running for months
Schrodingers Box It's been quite a few years since I've worked on a K-Jetronic FI engine, but my memory has been jogged...
In the metering head, there is a flap//plunger that is known for sticking, especially if it has been sitting around for a while. This could have freed off, allowing the engine to run "properly". I would take off the air intake pipe that goes to the inlet manifold and check the plunger/flap moves freely.
Wow. I just google it and it is VW Passat - very, very popular in Europe!
I just put a new battery AND new starter in my Jeep Cherokee today - how'd you know?? Gave up on non-cranking issue and had it towed to shop at end of day.
+Yasta Fari I knew because that's what 98% of people do- it's a pretty safe guess with those odds!
put a jump box on the battery then your charger then remove the jumpbox and leave the charger on 2 amps. that battery is sulfated and has very high resistance
Old VW's were bad about electrical, shorts, bad grounds, etc. The problems take out batteries too! I've seen these burn 12mm bolts in half with a bad ground. -- And the wires were hacked from the factory! I HATED these cars!
If it's an electric fuel system, I have seen where starting the engine "wakes up" a dying fuel pump. I would put an amp clamp on the scope and look at the fuel pump.
That engine and injection system was in my first car (1987 Jetta). Nobody wanted to fix that. LOL
+Gregory May hahahaha, and that still holds true!!!
Schrodingers Box
That was "only" 10 years ago though;) I just started watching and don't know if it's fixed but I would suggest to watch Mercedesresource channel on you tube - the old man talks a lot about this type of injection. Also google K-jetronic;)
Gregory May Oh sweeet! Thanks I will check that if my plan doesn't work out but I do believe I have a strategy already
Holy Crap ! With all them wires spliced, cut dangling, under the dash, over the dash, in the engine bay and I imagine every where else, it's a wonder how that rat trap has not caught on fire !
I wish it would have lol!!! Yeah this is one of the worst I have ever seen as far as "modifications" lol. It adds sooooooo many variables. Just how many systems were bypassed and poor wiring connections done that could explain these issues, right??
Good luck with that one Matt ! LOL ! But I'm dying to see the fix!
Great video
24:59 those moments when you realise you don't have things under control :) lol
Resisting in those moments is the pillar is the thing that separetes the ones that repair from the ones that pay someone else to repair. Is everything ok for you Matt, the "monster storm" got you in trouble?
+Andrea Gili Lol yes I hate the feeling when I realize I cannot make a scientific experiement- it is not always possible to do and then you're no better off than anyone else who guesses.
The winter storm is on east coast- I am in rocky mountains. No storms out of the usual here but typical winter for sure. Always below freezing and hovering around 0F at night.
So the remote starter switch will turn the car over but not let it fire ??? So cant really start the car with it just turn it over ???
Because I do not engage the flywheel.
the extra injector line is for a cold start injector...
If there was a short in the wiring in the car what exactly is connecting the battery terminals individually going to tell you?
+Fridgemusa I was not testing for a short. I was demonstrating scientific thought process of removing variables individually. That's why I prefaced 3 times with "inexplicable", "shouldn't make a difference" and "just to show".
Okay :)
You also had to turn the key all the way off before you could crank again.
To trace an electrical draw, disconnect the ground battery terminal then connect on lead of your multi-meter to the battery terminal and the other lead to the battery cable connector. if you have a drain on the battery it will show. Next start removing fuses one at a time until you find the one that makes the biggest change in the number on the multi-meter. NO guess work.
+ALLxoxoxoxo Why would you suspect an electrical draw on a cranking no start or even on a non crank no start where there is full amperage to the starter??
+Schrodingers Box Separate issue. you have a dead battery that is showing a drain when a charge is given to it. I'm one of the 2%, shade tree. this is a trick my Dad taught me who was a mechanic. I'm more of a Jack of Most Trades. You should be able to do an ohms resistance test on the spark plug wires this will also show continuity. Also there is ohms resistance test you can do on the ignition coil. If that does not show you any problems check for power to the ignition coils. forgive me if this is repetative
+Schrodingers Box you are having intermittent power to the starter or solenoid or both. You have messed up wires all over. I would follow the wires from the starter to the ignition switch in the dash or interior which ever it has. The electrical draw could be the cause of the no start
+Schrodingers Box sometimes the ignition switch is the same as the ignition lock where the key goes. sometimes its not. The wires that leave the starter go from there to battery and to the ignition switch and or ignition lock. Follow all to find issues. if you don't see any then you have to do continuity tests to rule those out. Tag as you go.
ALLxoxoxoxo In that case would there not be current to the starter at all times with electrical draw problem?
The VW rabbit used a similar mechanical FI system
kinda sounded like the idle air control valve. i didnt hear a rpm "flare up"
+jay7264 Hmmmm... you might be right, now that you mention!
Check your ground connections to the engine block and trans. Common thing on old vw's gives the computer an acid trip and they don't work.
What indication is there that this is a ground problem exactly? I see no such indication. And ground for which circuit exactly would cause this if that were the case??
+homested92 If I recall there isn't even a computer on this car (very unlikely on any car this age; didn't start appearing until a couple of years later). It's likely to have electronic ignition, but that will have its own module.
+mrman17 its CIS there is an ECU I think it's in the hood cowl on the driver's side or in jettas of that era. I'm more familiar with the golf/ jettas. When they run badly cleaning up the engine ground and other grounds almost always makes a big difference. something about a steel bolt going through an aluminum transmission with a copper connector. I didn't get a chance watch the entire video but the ECU can adjust fuel based on engine temp and other inputs. It might also have timing control. later Audi 5000s with the same engine did.. and by later I mean 88 or so... Audi got new features before Vw though.. I'd have to look it up.
+Schrodingers Box me making assumptions based on experience.. didn't watch your whole video probably should have before making an ass of myself. I always try to clean the grounds on old CIS cars when I get them..
homested92 I don't understand sorry- why would you always clean the grounds when you get a car without first verifying if there is an electrical problem?
I mean- why not first clean the fuel injectors or clean the throttle body or clean the EGR valve or clean the O2 sensor?
I am totally not following doing a first step without any indication that it is going to help.
Early Passat Estate that is. With the VW 4x4 haldex system.
+timbo19751975 Actually, this car uses the original Audi quattro system. Haldex is in use since 1998. It is also not the same as the system used in the Golf Syncro, which has a transverse engine placement and was a viscous coupling. First generation quattro can be used only on longtitudonal engines.
Thank you!
All those 3 minute repairs keep the parts stores in business!!
Hi, I really liked this video and I have a vw polo in the same situation and I feel like I've been getting the wrong information from other mechanics but I really feel like I can use this to find the problem with my car is there a way we can get into contact
EFI system. can b e found on foird escoirts xr3i model
I don´t know if it is like that in US but in europe it´s ussual for a manual to start without clutch presed in at least on car I drive and that is 2002
Really??? If that's true then that is ridiculous lol- how dangerous to have a car able to crank in gear!! You sure your was like that new?
Well looks like you're right!! Others confirmed as well! I am amazed lol- seems like a hazard to me!!!
I don´t know my dad thought me to always check for neutral and it´s a diesel so I´ve got a habbit of turn key check neutral start plus if you don´t have clutch pressed in it will die imidietly so it will only make a small jump :D happened to me few times while learning :D
In the UK we actually called that a safety feature!
In the event of a non-mechanical engine failure (eg fuel/spark) you could put the car in second gear (first on a hill) and crank your way to a safe place, like moving out of the middle of an intersection or from a traffic lane to the shoulder of the freeway etc.
+Schrodingers Box I think the idea is it gives you the option to move the car under electric power if required.
Very curious. Possibly all a result of poor connections.
+ibbeach09 Definitely a possibility!!!
What's with the weird name? That's just an old Passat with an (also old) K-Jetronic injection system.
Yay for 80s tech.
+SinPistones Take it easy bro
good old bosch jetronic, probably the most widely used fuel injection in the world....way back then. made lots of $$ working on them systems. euro family fuel injection... md/bz, audi, vw, volvo, sabb, porsche
this is not a weird car it is just Wolksvagen Passat :) with weird injection system,weird becausy is hard to repair it,new parts for jetronic costs more then all car! :D
Haha the flux capacitor!
Nice you and a VW I am going through some hassle at the mo tried diagnosing my car gave up, went to a mechanic he cant figure out whats wrong said "See how ya get on and come back when the check engine lights on even when I do this it will probably come up with the same EGR error code which is bullshit as I have changed the EGR. My car has a intermittent miss fire and a intermittent no start problem the computer just pops up with an excessive gas flow code. Checked comprehensions checked wiring changed coil packs spark plugs crank sensor few other sensors yer sorry I chucked some parts at it. Mechanics as clueless as me its a mk 4 golf 1.6 16v 2002 engine code is AZD if anyone's got any ideas that would be most appreciated.
+mike ford You say you changed your EGR valve. I would start with data you got that indicated to you the EGR valve was bad. Obviously the readings you got were misinterpreted and that would be a good starting clue.
+Schrodingers Box Hi well the mechanic said you have an EGR error so I replaced it. Check engine light came back on so thought I'll buy a cheap scanner just a code reader basically (cheap an nasty) It said .... you guessed it EGR (excessive gas flow) Was thinking vacuum leak but I couldn't find a leak nor could the mechanic. Obviously the mechanic isnt looking at the data correctly. I wish I could afford the Ross Tech software I think fuel trims would reveal something I even told the mechanic I think you should check the trims but I dunno if he did.
mike ford Well sorry there's no data here to help. Good luck bro.
+Schrodingers Box Cheers ;)
Oh, and yes, 5 cylinder cars sound horrible with open exhausts. See also, side pipe Vipers.
it's one of those possessed cars. I would leave it alone. The fact that they paid $200 tow bill on a $50 car tells you all you need to know.
7:50 musst be a joke that he checks if connecting one terminal does anything ... no closed circuit so nothing will happen :/
That's a B2 Passat. Typical sharing of vw group parts. Audi 80 engine and running gear. I'm sure that injection system was fitted to the Mk1 Golf GTi
Looks like a five cyl. inline, almost identical to the engine in my old Audi quattro.
I haven't seen the whole video, but let me guess what the fault may be: -Hall-effect sensor inside the spark distributor, or the coil, especially if the coil is mounted close to the engine.
Now I'll watch the rest of the vid and see if I'm a genius or a dumbass.
a lot of vw don't need there clutch pushed in to start
+Nails Great- what about the no start though? what is your recommended approach on that?
I had one of these in the early 90's. They were *terrible* cars...
yeah! do some science!!! I'm stealing that gem...
The correct term is "do some science on this biatch" but I toned it down on this video after the hoogananny comment.
yes, your poetry was flowing like natty light at a frat party
K-JETRONIC or KE-JETRONIC with fuel distributor
+Hristo Mutafov Ok great- what are the diagnostic testing procedures and values I need to diagnose the cranking no start then?
+Schrodingers Box does this car has catalytic converter?
Hristo Mutafov Yes
+Schrodingers Box the fifth fuel line from the fuel distributor it goes till cold start valve this valve is energized if the engine is colder than 37 Fahrenheit to enrich the mixture.the other 4 lines from the fuel distributor are for the fuel injections.there is external fuel pump if you want after warm-up check the fuel pressure must be 3,3-3,4 bar
add exhaust leak to the list lol