Something I've heard a couple times is that the best way to keep rails clean is just to run trains. As long as your wheels are clean (and made of metal) than the friction tends to keep things clean mostly anyways. Soon as a layout sits for a long time, the rails collect grit and crud and dust and it needs to be cleaned again
Nice video Sam and some good points. A few other things to consider: 1) Most chemical substances people use for track cleaning are skin irritants and produce toxic vapours so should be used with gloves in a well ventilated place, plus eye protection just in case of splashes or if you wipe your eyes without thinking. 2) Electrical contact lubricants like Inox or WD40 specialist electrical contact cleaner DON'T leave a sticky residue, though some other chemical cleaners do. 3) One of the major arguments against abrasive cleaning like track rubbers is it produces tiny scratches to your rails which increases surface area and therefore oxidisation. Theoretically this means your rails will get dirty more quickly over time. However how much difference this makes in reality is unclear. I guess the best way to find out is to get some brand new track and set up two lines then clean one with a track rubber and one with an electric contact cleaner, use them the same amount and then see how they compare after a decent length of time. 4) Have you ever tried Gaugemasters high frequency electronic track cleaner? I've seen a few forum posts which swear by it, although I don't know anyone personally who's tried it. My understanding is it should probably only be used on DC layouts as putting an electrical surge through DDC chips isn't a good idea. Overall there seem to be a lot of theories and anecdotal stories about track cleaning, but little hard evidence. And the track manufacturers like Hornby and Peco don't seem to have much to say. Perhaps influencers like yourself could encourage them to do some experiments and publish the results? It would be good PR for them and having some facts to back up a cleaning product would surely be an excellent marketing tactic for them.
This is a video I’d hoped for, for a long time. I’ve got the Atlas incarnation of the track vacuum, and didn’t have much success with it initially. After a full clean out and re-wire, it works really well. It also has DCC which makes pushing it around slowly whilst it’s running a full speed a breeze. I personally use the methylated spirits on paper towel trick on my track, and methylated spirits on a cotton bud to clean the wheels. That’s always worked for me, but please don’t use any sort of contact cleaner on your track! I used “CRC Switch Cleaner Lubricant” on my track once, and whilst it initially seemed to work really well, after a little bit, it built up into this black tar like substance on my track, and on my locomotive and carriage wheels (sometimes the resultant grime built up so thick on my carriage bogies, they wouldn’t turn anymore, and I had to scrape them clean with a screwdriver). I honestly think I’m still trying to get some of it off my rolling stock almost 15 years and 3 layouts later! Thanks again for your insight on this topic.
That would be real cool, especially with a ind of grouping into which fit well together. I bought 2 lots of used N scale track some time ago, having no idea what I was doing. It was only luck that the Roco and the Minitrix pieces were actually identical, and fit perfectly.
I prefer the Hornby track rubber. It isn't as gritty as the Peco one. I use lighter fluid to clean the track. Not sure about using the glass fibre pencil on track. It is very abrasive and the track is only coated with nickel silver. Those fibres can be nasty too when they get onto your fingers. Breathing them in can't be good. You could always run the Dapol cleaner behind a DCC loco. They do have a DCC socket. At least the newer ones do. Are there any ferrous metals in the Peco track rubber? Motors are magnets after all and will attract metal particles. Your carpets don't appear to have a deep pile and don't look very fluffy. 70% of locos sent in to repair departments after Xmas seem to be because the motors are clogged with fluff. I'm not convinced about your excuse that you won't build a baseboard because you might move sometime in the future. The answer to that is of course to build your baseboards in modules about four foot long that are easy to take apart and reassemble. (Puts on barristers wig). Prisoner in the dock. I put it to you that you have concerns about your woodworking skills. You should forget them. If a ham-fisted person like me can knock up a baseboard then I'm sure you could manage easily. I'm sure that if you made a series about building baseboards it would be of great service to your nearly 100,000 subscribers.
Hi Sam. Just been talking to the person you referred to. He even rants in his replies. He said Peco rubbers are the worst. People have been using them for years with no problems. Then he started on isopropyl alcohol, wow I almost lost the will to live. Think the bloke needs professional help. I did use the argument you put forward but did not mention you. Keep safe mucker. Pete and Su.
This is incredibly useful, thanks. I do have a question about the Dapol vacuum cleaner: presumably the direction the fan rotates switches with voltage polarity, i.e. with the direction of travel? If so, does it blow the dust out instead of sucking it in if you go the wrong way?? I'm assuming they must have thought of that but I can't find any info that addresses this point. Thanks!
Hello Sam. Another fascinating video. My father always used a Peco track cleaning rubber since 1974. Never had any problems. It always makes the way permanent. Another classic Sam SUPERB thank you 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🐖🚄🚅
Hi Sam, great video! I discovered a neat trick just the last time I cleaned the track. To apply a cleaner (e.g. isopropyl alcohol), I had previously applied it to a cloth. But every time I got to the points, I had to be very careful to stop it snagging on the pointy bits. I had the bright idea to hold a piece of cork underlay on the bottom of a plastic ruler, squirt solvent on the end, and press down against the track and run along (flat side of the ruler down). The cork glides nicely over points and untidy rail joints without a hiccup.
Thanks so much for sharing - yeah the cloth isn't ideal actually - I did see a tool in Mike's video that looked way better, I'm thinking of investing in one! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
With runing trains on carpet the amount of lint and dust picked up all depends on how cleen the carpet is and what type of carpet. Your carpet is flat hard carpet so its all good. But soft fluffy carped is definitely a no no many because it will pickup and hold alot of dust. Love the vid sam Congratulations on 100k.
Hey Sam. I've seen the video in question and I have to say I agree with you more on the subject - I've personally been using alcohol and Peco rubber cleaners for nearly 15 years and haven't run into any major issues however I did want to get your thoughts on something. One thing the video claimed is that the rubber can leave deposits on your track which will get on your wheels, I have had this issue on stock that covers a lot of distance each month. I try my best to make sure lubricants stay off the track and 95 percent of the stuff I run has metal wheels. I don't remember having this issue in the past however this issue seems to have started after I started using the Peco branded one, instead of the one I had been using years before. Do you suspect this is due to something else or related? Thanks ~Harrison
Thanks a lot mate - yeah never had a problem with track rubbers either! I think it depends on the rubber - I once bought a Gaugemaster one that was horrible, and left all kinds of gunk on the track. Never had it happen with the Peco one though! You never know though - an experiment/investigation into that might make a good vid? Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Well said Sam! The quality of track rubber matters! I have used some horrible ones that shed way too much dust even in few strokes but this Peco one seems really reliable!
Very much so - I was put off by the price of Peco ones, and looked at Hornby and Gaugemaster ones.... both in the bin within the week! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Oh Sam what a rabbit hole this is! May I add my half penny? I too have a large loft layout and it is cleaned once a year all over, with a PECO track rubber. The next bit may be worth your experimentation? I rub sections of the layout with a 2B graphite crayon. A spark quench, contact improver, and also a dry lubricant. The latter being a reason for not over doing the graphite. If excess has been applied the track rubber will remove it! However, this does mean that the majority of the layout is cleaned once a year, loco wheels the same. The bit of the layout the cat sleeps on needs more regular cleaning! My show layouts and stock, many have not been cleaned for a few years, in some cases. I assume the need , or lack of cleaning, results from the layout not sitting flat in dust collecting mode all the time... Also the show layouts tend to spend much time boxed out of use and then periods of intense operation over a one or two day period. Graphite crayons may be bought cheaply from a decent graphic arts supply shop.... Cheers for an interesting film
Thank you Sam for the video. I am not sure you have proved your point. I think it is fair to say that polishing of metal involves scratching. Sites about the making of jewellery make it clear that polishing involves making smaller and smaller scratches. However, the video by Model Railways Unlimited where new track is viewed under a microscope and the far from perfect surface demonstrated and the subsequent results of using a Peco track rubber are shown is most interesting and perhaps redeems track rubbers. The website for Cabling Installation Maintenance does not give IPA a ringing endorsement for cleaning fibre optic cable. It is asserted that isn’t a brilliant cleaner and that it does leave a residue. Apparently IPA is hydroscopic, that is it attracts moisture to itself. The headroom in IPA containers as well as its exposure to the air brings about this effect. The suggestion is that once opened our 99.9% IPA will reduce itself to a lower purity over time and stabilises at about 65/35. I am not sure polar and non polar is pseudoscience, although I am far from being a scientist. The dielectic constant shown in the Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine article dated 5 May 2019 seems to make sense as does the view that the build up of muck is caused by electrical arcing. Consequently, a cleaner with a low dielectic constant looks like a good idea. In the old days I guess we would have used carbon tetrachloride for certain cleaning jobs. I am starting new with O gauge. Having sprayed the track with sleeper grime, I cleaned the heads with white spirit (mineral spirits in the USA and Canada). I was most unsure about this, but from a non polar point of view it is good. Consequently, I am going to go down the Inox MX3 road. I think I am unlikely to experience traction issues and I won’t have any traction tyres. However, your point that model railways isn’t just about electrical contact was well made and I see the benefits of Inox MX3 to slot car racers may not be directly applicable to model railways. It occurred to me that Peco Power Lube, formerly Electrolube, has been about for years.
I just fitted a Gaugemaster GMC-HF2 to my (pre-cleaned) tracks yesterday, so obviously it's on trial, but I did notice the number of pulses (as it burnt off dirt) from the leds reduced substantially after only half an hour. A good part of the layout is covered and very tricky to clean manually, so hopefully it will now stay clean! PS bought new from Hattons last year, it was forty-something pounds, less than some of the Fleabay used ones!
Inox MX3 is what you need to be using to clean and protect track - check it out. Also, a lot of my Hornby points cause either brown outs or derailments, despite being cleaned - the frogs are just awful, and you can see and hear wheels catching and juddering across them. The track isn't a problem, but what do you do about bad points?
I will do, thanks a lot for the tip! Yess the Hornby points are a bit like that... that's why I like locos with lots of pickups! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
i mean yeah if you are neat freak you can spend more time maintaining the environment for whatever your hobby happens to be, sure. But ideally one would want to focus on (in this case) running the model trains in vast majority of time, it is equally unrealistic to expect every hobbyist is able to dedicate even the amount of space Sam has. if i were to have spare space i could only have temporary small (aprox 2x3 meters) layout, hence me preferring Transport tycoon deLuxe or Rollecoaster Tycoon - a virtual representation of various rail based fun. Models have to thereby be capable of operating under less than ideal situations (altho not necessarily in the inflatable pool as one past episode showcased), and tracks have to be easy enough to maintain. Sermon over .P i would like to see comparing cleaning techniques and their pitfalls and benefits, tho that i reckon would require a stress test pre- and post cleaning? to have an idea of progression between dirty and clean states you understand. Sounds like alot of hard work. Personal experiences of various enthusiasts vary, depending on available equipment, alas not everyone puts sufficient amount of thought into what they are sharing as facts. I can certainly see that if the video creator this is reply to had used lesser rubber and isorpopyl it would have likely resulted in significantly worse results. Now they should have presented this as such offcourse but yeah - they need mate like El Cheapo, to help them differentiate between good value and thing being too cheap for its own good.
Polar solvent or not, I would have thought that the IPA will have evaporated away shortly after use. Thereby, leaving zero residue. I don’t think the polarity of the solvent would therefore be an issue.
Hi Sam, for adding additional power to the other side of the layout do you just plug your wires into the back of the controller? (I’ve got an hm2000) and does it matter what wires you use?
It doesn't matter what wires you use, and yes you could just jam two wires into the controller if you wanted to bodge it. Probably easier to solder two sets of wires together, but whatever works for you! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
They won't clean Covid off the track, you will need some anti-viran solution for that which may damage the track. I am guessing you are asking encase the track is being touched by people and not as a joke.
I use a very fine emery block when my track gets really bad, but most of the time I used either a Hornby track cleaning coach and I have 2 gauge master track "mops" having under a inspection/directors salon. The latter normally gets given a run on each running session. Its only a case of bringing the track head back to bright. As for dust and hair, I think it makes a big difference if you have pets, I've seen train set locos full of hair, not fluff. Have you ever had experience of the electronic track cleaners that form part of the layouts circuitry? I just find I am ham fisted when it comes to passing through the station, and past the signals.
@@Poliss95 is certainly fine, its what I used for metal polishing in my engineering workshop, and rubbing back on paint on our traction engines. I never use anything courser than 600 grit for that. I have used emery bocks and cloth for years, never had a issue. Why is the reason you wouldn't use it? if its because of wearing of the track, you would have to clean it 1000's of times before you had any serious degradation of track. Its unlikely the minute amount aluminum oxide dust will harm anything. Biggest headache to date in track maintenance ......cob webs! Hadn't been in train said for several weeks and they were several on the scenic section.. but none in the fiddle yard area, so I guess they like the Southern side of the shed better haha.
@@James_Rivett Thanks a lot for sharing - never tried emery blocks as I was worried about them scratching the surface... maybe the finer stuff is fine then?? Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I hardly ever have to clean my track because using an artists graphite pencil (not a big lump of graphite which is too course) I very lightly glide the pencil along the track maybe 2 strokes for every length treated. The train wheels are never dirty and electrical charge not impaired and nothing is damaged. You can get the pencils at any good artists supply shop for about £8. It’s over a year since I last had to clean the tracks.
Everard Junction has done a video with the American CMX track cleaner using 'Goo Gone' fluid. It's basically a tank wagon filled with cleaning fluid with a piece of cloth attached beneath the chassis. You control the flow rate of the fluid via a screw top. By far one of the best examples out there. Shame there isn't one on the British market but you could convert an old tank wagon in to one, that's what I'm planning to do in future. Maybe you could look in to it and do a video?? Would make an awesome project. I have a Hornby track rubber but also use Deluxe Materials 'Track Magic' solution, highly recommended Sam. ;)
I was having some trouble with mine, so I eventually just polished it with a rotary tool Also solder your joints if you aren't going to disassemble 2 tracks
Good video. I have been cleaning my track using bleach and a 14 inch industrial angle grinder and I have to regularly replace my entire model railway because of the unspeakable carnage. Thanks for the advice.
Hi Sam - for what it's worth I've used IPA on a cotton bud on narrow gauge tracks and it works superbly, evaporating quickly and leaving no residue (quick tip - you can also use it for cleaning video recorder and audio cassette heads if you're old skool). I would urge caution about using WD40 on trackwork - not because it won't work but because WD40 can have catastrophic effects on loco chassis with lots of plastic in there (Obviously Hornyby Dublo and the like will not have this problem). A friend tried WD40 to clean a Berlinerbahn TT loco chassis - which promptly fell apart! Forewarned is forearmed
Thanks for sharing David, yes I've never had a problem either! Yeah I wouldn't put WD40 anywhere near my models... the contact cleaner remains to be seen though! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The only model railways use for WD-40 is to oil the hinges of your front gate so the missus doesn't hear the postie delivering your extremely expensive new loco. :-)
Great idea - that could be fun... I'd rather build a large permanent installation somewhere though... that's the dream anyway! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Nice video Sam. Would be nice if you could do more mythbusting with model railways. Your "experiments", older model reviews and themes running sessions really sets you apart from other channel. Looking foward to you getting 100k subscribers soon!
I just use a Peco track rubber. I've had the same one for about 10 years. The track gets cleaned fairly regularly, maybe once every two months (or as I see fit). Never had any issues.
Hi Sam. I use a Dapol track cleaner (inter city blue livery) on a DC layout. I found I had to put a bridge rectifier in the suppy to the motor as the vacuum only worked in one diection. In the other direction it blew the balast etc out from the sides of the wagon. Perhaps mine was an earlier model. It now works fine in either diection.
As someone who working on his minor in geology... If we use the Mohs hardness scale on metal and on rubber you will find the hardness of nickel is 4, and the hardness of rubber is 0. Moh's Hardness scale works on the principle of "Can X scratch Y". Our fingernails have a hardness of around 2.5, and Diamonds have a hardness of 10. So Diamonds can scratch everything, nickel can scratch our fingernails, our fingernails can scratch rubber. So im just going to say... if your track rubber is ruining your tracks... your track is either made of something somehow weaker than rubber, or that rubber is not rubber.
Sorry Sam, but some of what you're saying is itself faulty. First, while I get why you're annoyed by the video you bring up... the arguments and uncertainties about track cleaning and whether rubbing is good or bad go back DECADES. They have raged through magazines and forums before UA-cam even existed. That video, even if it's from some sort of big-ish name channel, is a drop in the bucket. As far as using it edge-on goes... it's not like these things come with instructions in my experience, so how is someone supposed to be sure which way? And edge-on _is_ what you typically want when erasing on paper, so it seems a natural assumption to make. Second, what if track _is_ seriously nasty and dirty? You don't really address what to do there, and how much rubbing can be expected. I've got some track that seems to have gotten seriously grubby. Third, your dismissals of the idea of damage from track erasers and the possibility of carpet fluff getting into the works are faulty. Just because it hasn't happened to _you_ doesn't mean it doesn't happen _period_. * As far as carpet fluff goes, I can personally attest to that happening at times back when I lived somewhere with carpet. And I've seen plenty of accounts of the same on forums. Although if you pay attention and remove it in a timely manner, it doesn't actually ruin anything like some people whinge it does. Just know that it _does_ in fact happen - you've simply happened to luck out regarding your carpet. * As you yourself acknowledged, not all track erasers are equal. Don't lose sight of that; it's a fact that some are more on the abrasive side and _can_ scuff the track. Hell, some track cleaners are really more sanding blocks or household scouring pads. Damage can and does happen - people apparently have brought in microscopes here. Also, when it comes to IPA... Most people buy isopropanol *at the store* - they _don't_ special-order it off eBay or the like. And I bet you at supermarkets and convenience stores, most IPA _there_ will be 70% just like it is here in the 'States. Have a gander the next time you're at Tesco or wherever. Regarding contact-cleaner, you have to be careful. Some actually _are_ polar, so you have to make sure you're getting a brand that's non-polar and has protector. A good non-polar solvent is apparently plain old odorless mineral spirits.
I saw in an American video on youtube that the guy had a Tidy Track which is a cleaning head attached to a metal handle via a moveable joint. It followed the rails and he just pushed it around. Quick and easy.
One thing NOT to do, is put your rails in a dishwasher... More seriously, thanks for the tips on maintenance of your tracks, it's very interesting. Especially the part when you removed a fishplate with a screwdriver, I did not thought doing this. Budget Model Railways had tested cleaning a locomotive with WD-40 and the engine was properly running after this operation. There might be other products more suited for cleaning, and not polar too as WD-40 is not a polar one as far as I know. I'm waiting for your benchmark, that would be interesting. By the way, IPA 99,9 % costs around GBP 15 to 30 a litre, I found some on Amazon. You can try by yourself now.
If you are experiencing a power drop between one side of your layout and the other. You could try 1 of 3 things, # 1 solder your rail joints. #2 solder a jumper wire over the joints. #3 bus power threw heavy gauge wire, and connect from bus wire to the track in multiple places around the track. "Cleaning" the track I use 2000-5000 grit polishing sandpaper no residue left behind no scratch marks either. You use that fine of grit you are buffing and not sanding.
Just seen this. Very helpful but it does have one flaw. Sams layout is all on the floor and as such is easily accessible. This makes sense to use the Peco rubber. My and I suspect many other layouts are on a raised baseboard with some area of track difficult to access. Others will also have tunnels. These make cleaning with a rubber impractical. Its unfortunate that the cleaning function of the Dapol cleaning is dismissed and only the vacuum function highlighted. It would have been helpful to go into these functions. There are 2. One is the rotary device which will clean then polish the rails. I would warn against using the coarser disks as I found they grind the surface of the rail. Use fine or medium ones. The other function is the liquid tank which feeds to pads which spread the cleaning fluid. After doing this the unit can be run again using the rotary function with a pad to clean off the residue. Dapol do supply a cleaning fluid Its worth noting that if you have DCC it has a dcc socket. An accessory decode will enable control the vacuum and rotary speeds..So for awkward and hidden parts of the track this does work well.
If you look at alcohol proof measurement 100o (generally referred to as 100 degrees proof alcohol) it is around 60% alcohol. 70O (generally referred to as 70 over proof) is nearly 100% alcohol. Proof measurement came about as a method of checking if alcoholic drink was stronger than allowed for payment of taxes and was used in “the field” by excise men. The method was to pour the acholic drink to be measured onto gunpowder if it burnt then the content was “over proof”. The zero after the proof measurement is meant to be superscript but youtube can't handle it.
Strange about IPA supposedly causing your track to possibly get dirtier quicker afterwards, I have watched many videos about reconditioning/restoring old computers/games consuls etc. They all use IPA to clean motherboards etc, and don't have problems with it attracting dirt again. So wouldn't worry about it.
I have the same habit. But I have seen, wheel surfaces need to be tended to. On older locos, chemicals do not always clean properly. Slight resurfacing with 1200 sand paper can be very effective.
Does Electrical Contact Cleaner work, instead of IPA 99.9%? Useful video thanks. I have a mixture of track between 35-50 years old, that has never been cleaned and only recently been used for the first time in 25 years! The locomotives are the same age and need a service too!
The best way to keep track clean is to not use track power. Electric track creates a magnetic field that attracts dust in the air to the rails. That's why you can get dirty track even if you don't run the layout for a while: because of the electromagnetic charge. I absolutely love your "Tart" Class for its dead-rail power supply. Metal wheels on metal rails actually polish each other. Prototype rails have a very shinny line in the top of the railhead from where the wheel makes contact because of the metal on metal contact. You say you are responding to a video from a friend. I am curious about what video you are referring to. I will come forth and say that I don't use track power to run my O Scale 2 Rail models (I use dead rail battery power). This means I do not have to worry about cleaning track because my locomotives have their power source onboard (even tiny 0-4-0T's). I do however work on layouts with track power. IPA is something that concerns me, and the more research I did on it, the more I wanted to stay away from it. Just because it's a good disinfectant doesn't mean it's a good cleaner. The water (even in 99.9% IPA) will attract dust and dirt from the air to the railhead, especially when electrically charged. The water (regardless of how little there is) is the "why" behind it being a polar solvent. You almost said it, and I'd encourage you to look into it further. It also causes micro arcing, which can over time, which will damage the rail head. The pits caused by micro arcing will oxidize the contact points on the rail (the "Interface" between rail and wheel you talked about). This will impede electrical contact between rail and wheel. Recently, there has been a lot of discussion on this topic. In the USA, it seems that mineral spirits are the best and most recommended solution so far if you use a liquid track cleaner. I use it on the layouts I work on, and I have had great results with it. If you use an appropriate small amount, the light film left behind can actually help increase electrical contact between your locomotive and the rail, and it won't attract dirt and grime as easily as IPA. I think that's worth investigating in a future video. Here's a link if you don't know Ron from Ron's Trains: (ua-cam.com/video/lBYxjcTWCB0/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Ron%27sTrainsNThings). I'd love to see a follow-up video on the topic! Always appreciate your takes on modeling topics!
Re: IPA. 70% IPA will be perfectly safe both on steel and nickel-silver track. It's around the eutectic for the solution so both liquids will evaporate together. i.e. the water won't be left behind). Even so, the water used will be pretty pure. It's the dissolved salts in the water which cause corrosion, acting as electrolytes allowing the electro-chemical reaction to cause oxidation. As for 99.9% pure IPA possibly causing more dirt build up in future, well the people you've been listening to are using pseudo-science I'm afraid. The IPA evaporates completely leaving no residue, other than that which was on the rail to begin with. As for switch cleaner/lubricant. Now that does leave behind an oil residue which will cause traction issues and enhance dirt collection on the rail. Some (but not all) switch cleaners do have reducing agents which will attack the tarnish, but a track rubber would be far more efficient at removing the tiny amounts on the rail head, which is where the wheel makes electrical contact.
Just had a thought that when I cleaned my track with INOX I found that my 4-4-0 with traction tyres started slipping on the incline and no longer able to pull its load up the hill.??? I wonder if that's the problem. YES, please do a video on that. Cheers
Hi Sam I've tryed this other method and I did find that the pulling power of your loco"s is compromise . As I have a incline on my layout and evan my 9F had trouble hauling a normal load up the in cline. So I went back to the peco track rubber and ipa. You should do the the pulling test with the conductivity spray . The spray also not good with any loco with traction tyres. Regards Mark
Did you ever get around to experiment with non-polar/contact cleaners? I'd be very interested in such a video, as I'm currently building phase 1 of my dream layout.
At the end of this video you mentioned that you have power going into your track in multiple locations, but my question is where is the source the power is coming from? I’ve always thought about having an extra pair of wires coming from my controller to go to the other side of my layout, but I’ve always been told that if you have multiple wires attached to a single output, then problems will occur. Another thing that I have found with continuity in the track is soldering the fishplates to the rails.
Isopropyl alcohol has always been recommended here to clean wheels and tracks due to the fact that it leaves no residue when evaporated. I am a bit concerned to what you pointed about the IPA being a "polar cleaner". I would really appreciate if you could perform some kind of test on that topic. What the Hell was that thing at the front of the Dapol wagon?? :) And by the way, do you recommend the Dapol Track Cleaning Wagon? I'm thinking on purchasing one. Is is really worthy? Thanks in advance.
Isopropyl alcohol is generally compatible with most plastics. "Contact cleaner" is not. There is also no standard formulation for contact cleaner. Wurth contact cleaner oil, for example, has a completely different formulation than Wurth contact cleaner and circuit board cleaner. Before you use any particular contact cleaner, test it on a spare piece of track and whatever else you plan on it coming in contact with. I've had contact cleaner melt a keyboard into a puddle of goo before. Also probably test it to see if it fully evaporates. Some are formulated to explicitly leave some oil behind. Generally the "circuit board cleaner" types don't do this.
Personally, i don't go anywhere near my tracks with anything abrasive, and as you can clearly see on the sheet of brass, it does create scratches. I've seen a vid where someone used a microscope to view his tracks before and after using a track rubber, and the scratches were a lot deeper after he used it. these scratches will catch grime faster, requiring more cleaning. I've started using ATF after testing it on very old tracks that haven't been cleaned in 10 years (not exaggerating), and the first 3 laps my loco still came to a halt, but then at higher speeds it ran over the bad parts, and after 5 or 6 laps it was like new. After i've done work in my room (for example, after cutting a piece of wood with my jigsaw) i will put some benzene on a rag or cotton bud, clean the tracks and reapply ATF with a cotton bud. 1 inch on each beam, and the run a long train around for 6 laps. What the ATF does is dissolve the corrosion which is a semi conductor, and create a tiny film on which dirt will have a hard time sticking. It will not damage plastic parts, in theory it can cause swelling of rubber tires but i haven't noticed anything yet (yes, i do run with rubber tire, shame on me). Using ATF will leave you with a layer of black shit, but it doesn't affect running properties. I'm not saying anyone has to start using it, but i will say that i'm convinced that it works very well.
Nice review Sam ,I’ve never had trouble with Peco track rubber ,it really does depend on how you use it ,gently is my way & it works ,but do it often .😊
I do use a Peco track rubber especially on old very dirty track. Yes there is no denying that it does leave micro scratches on the rail surface but they are very very fine and not the craters that some would have you believe. Seeing the state of the rubber in some videos suggest they are also pressing to hard, it only requires light pressure. On new and cleaner track I have used mainly 99.9% IPA but having also watched model railways unlimited video I am trying out the WD40 contact cleaner to see if there is any difference like he saw in his experiment.
Hi Sam pooh those rubbers boy I believe the other person...Not! Enjoyed this it was educational I run track outside and yes it does rain here but the track is fine so what's the deal about 20% of water?? Duh. And yes do a tractive experiment. Cheers
My line is 45mm gauge but I clean my line with just a wet rag. But because the track cleaning was getting to annoying I have switched to live steam which is a lot better. It worked very well but for a line which is outside and very long and large it takes forever. About 5 minutes per running day which is almost every day of most of the year. It worked very well but also I had to go over it more than just once as its outside and it gets very dirty. To take those 5 minutes to 10. Live steam is a bit more expensive but it’s a lot les of a hassle to set up an in many cases a lot quicker. Best regards Sam-(it’s my name) VVR
abrasives in particular are a real no-no if you have a hybrid metal for rails. Lego 9V track for instance is electroplated copper - If you expose the copper it oxidised (goes green) - that oxidization will creep through the material and makes the moving parts in the points brittle. In a high salt and humidity environment like coastal Australia, it's basically game over for your track once its started.
I started using the Dapol track cleaner and fluid, found my track became greasy. Gone back to the 70's method, can't beat mentholated spirit. Oh and of course track rubber.
I have a serious question. If you use the dapol vacuum only running it on DC and use the 9V battery train as your cleaning set up. Could you possibly remove the 9v battery train and replace it with a bluetooth E-Z app bachmann train instead? If can would you do a video about it and try it? Im curious on what your thoughts are about this idea. P.s i also want you to do a review of the bachmann bluetooth e-z app trains because i think you will explain it better. 😂
Absolutely spot on Sam. I use a Peco rubber too and I've never had any problems with it. I also use my Dapol track cleaner in vacuum mode only. (I found that some of the rotating pads caught point blades.) I've found IPA and a cotton bud is ideal for cleaning between point blades and the adjacent rails.
Forget the IPA Sam and go for something that electricians use, this is a conductive material, model trains and rails are essentially the same as switches, so use Servisol super 10, its a switch gear lubricant, designed for the job.
Hi Sam There seem to be more theories about track cleaning than any other area of railway modelling. I like you watched the video about Polar & none polar cleaners, but again like you don't really know what to think about it. I have to say at present I am a Peco track rubber and vac man with the occasional rub with IPA. Wouldn't you think that these days there would be a tried and trusted scientifically proven best way of doing it.
So two questions 1. Are hornby track rubbers any good? 2. Do you ever need to replace points, as overtime they lose connection and the spring loses strength
Did you ever do a traction comparison between contact cleaner and IPA etc.? I find using the contact cleaner Inox as some suggest does an amazing job; both in terms of cleaning the track and then cleaning all the wheels of all stock that runs on it afterwards - only issues are that you need to then wipe the tracks regularly as all the dirt comes off the wheels; plus it does reduce the natural friction of the rails and reduces the ability of a loco to haul longer trains. My conclusion was to use it just to clean wheels of used stock in bulk when I acquire the items, then use ipa to clean it off the tracks again when done.
I use isopropanol (99+%) to displace water whenever I get some sensitive electronics (i.e. a phone, data logger, etc.) wet as a means of preventing water damage. It's very effective. Just because it has a bit of water in it doesn't mean it'll somehow deposit that water on whatever it is you're cleaning with it. Quite the opposite, it absorbs whatever water is there as it tries to dilute.
I use a hand held Shark vacuum cleaner to suck up up dust from the track. A small soft paint brush helps loosen dust too. If track rubbers were bad for cleaning track they would not be available/sold. The Peco ones have been around for years.
I made a rolling sponge wagon years ago when I had a track layout. Put WD40 on the sponge and sent it around the track. Damn that sponge did a good job.
Fishplates are a provervial pain, even with pinned track they loosen with time. The trick is with a permanant layout is to divide the track into sections and solder the track in that section into one unit and provide droppers to the power supply for each section, Soldered track runs far more smoothly and super reliably. Sections shouldn't be too big and if your layout is in an area subject to temeprature extremes there is a slight risk of track warping but careful planning mitigates this risk to almost zero
I cleaned my track yearly but it wasn't used that often. I run a finger on a rail and see how bad the line was it left on my finger, then used a bit of wet and dry sand paper on a block. Your carpet looks rather hard and industrial, I could be wrong but industrial carpets will work better than normal household carpets
Hi Sam I just wanted to let you know I followed your advice, on our railway club layout everyone has a station they control so as to teach other club members. I decided to clean up my station trackage first using the Peco rubber and it cleaned up a treat, everything runs well and better now so I thought I would say cheers.
Sam: Don't be afraid to use IPA to clean your track!
Me: Got it. Drink IPA's while cleaning track.
haha definitely don't do that! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I will admit, I was getting thirsty from all of the IPA talk!
My IPAs are usually between 7 and 9% alcohol though. Maybe a stout would work better?
IPAs ARE TRASH
-This message brought to you by Imperial Stout Gang
Personally, I prefer Guinness while laying track...
Plot twist: Sam is actually gonna live in that house forever without making his dream railway.
haha maybe!! xD
Sam'sTrains Not if you get a mansion 🤫🤫🤫🤫
@@sebastianfirman5780 they cost money, not lego
Sad Ending
@@adamchmielewski6162 Ah, but a lego mansion would cost way more than an actual mansion.
My track is so dirty I'll need a few tips this video will help me out a lot! Thanks!
Glad to hear that Rowan - good luck! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam, I just wanna say that you are the best railroading channel out there. Love your content and I hope you reach 100k soon!❤
Awhh thank you so much - that's amazing to hear! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
He already did 😊
I'm an old Luddite and still using my Triang track cleaning waggon with Methylated spirit
They may be old technology but they work
haha fantastic - yes I know lots of people use those, they do look good!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hello i clean your track
Something I've heard a couple times is that the best way to keep rails clean is just to run trains. As long as your wheels are clean (and made of metal) than the friction tends to keep things clean mostly anyways. Soon as a layout sits for a long time, the rails collect grit and crud and dust and it needs to be cleaned again
Well, not necessarily. I have an industrial layout with a lot of sidings. Unfortunately, I can't always use every siding.
Nice video Sam and some good points. A few other things to consider:
1) Most chemical substances people use for track cleaning are skin irritants and produce toxic vapours so should be used with gloves in a well ventilated place, plus eye protection just in case of splashes or if you wipe your eyes without thinking.
2) Electrical contact lubricants like Inox or WD40 specialist electrical contact cleaner DON'T leave a sticky residue, though some other chemical cleaners do.
3) One of the major arguments against abrasive cleaning like track rubbers is it produces tiny scratches to your rails which increases surface area and therefore oxidisation. Theoretically this means your rails will get dirty more quickly over time. However how much difference this makes in reality is unclear.
I guess the best way to find out is to get some brand new track and set up two lines then clean one with a track rubber and one with an electric contact cleaner, use them the same amount and then see how they compare after a decent length of time.
4) Have you ever tried Gaugemasters high frequency electronic track cleaner? I've seen a few forum posts which swear by it, although I don't know anyone personally who's tried it. My understanding is it should probably only be used on DC layouts as putting an electrical surge through DDC chips isn't a good idea.
Overall there seem to be a lot of theories and anecdotal stories about track cleaning, but little hard evidence. And the track manufacturers like Hornby and Peco don't seem to have much to say. Perhaps influencers like yourself could encourage them to do some experiments and publish the results? It would be good PR for them and having some facts to back up a cleaning product would surely be an excellent marketing tactic for them.
This is a video I’d hoped for, for a long time. I’ve got the Atlas incarnation of the track vacuum, and didn’t have much success with it initially. After a full clean out and re-wire, it works really well. It also has DCC which makes pushing it around slowly whilst it’s running a full speed a breeze. I personally use the methylated spirits on paper towel trick on my track, and methylated spirits on a cotton bud to clean the wheels. That’s always worked for me, but please don’t use any sort of contact cleaner on your track! I used “CRC Switch Cleaner Lubricant” on my track once, and whilst it initially seemed to work really well, after a little bit, it built up into this black tar like substance on my track, and on my locomotive and carriage wheels (sometimes the resultant grime built up so thick on my carriage bogies, they wouldn’t turn anymore, and I had to scrape them clean with a screwdriver). I honestly think I’m still trying to get some of it off my rolling stock almost 15 years and 3 layouts later! Thanks again for your insight on this topic.
I agree Steve Methylated spirit works well and not expensive
do you think you could do a video comparing all of the main OO setrack track makers (bachmann, peco, hornby etc)?
Great idea Ben, that could be interesting!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That would be real cool, especially with a ind of grouping into which fit well together. I bought 2 lots of used N scale track some time ago, having no idea what I was doing. It was only luck that the Roco and the Minitrix pieces were actually identical, and fit perfectly.
Just use Peco track and points,
I prefer the Hornby track rubber. It isn't as gritty as the Peco one. I use lighter fluid to clean the track.
Not sure about using the glass fibre pencil on track. It is very abrasive and the track is only coated with nickel silver. Those fibres can be nasty too when they get onto your fingers. Breathing them in can't be good.
You could always run the Dapol cleaner behind a DCC loco. They do have a DCC socket. At least the newer ones do.
Are there any ferrous metals in the Peco track rubber? Motors are magnets after all and will attract metal particles.
Your carpets don't appear to have a deep pile and don't look very fluffy. 70% of locos sent in to repair departments after Xmas seem to be because the motors are clogged with fluff.
I'm not convinced about your excuse that you won't build a baseboard because you might move sometime in the future. The answer to that is of course to build your baseboards in modules about four foot long that are easy to take apart and reassemble. (Puts on barristers wig). Prisoner in the dock. I put it to you that you have concerns about your woodworking skills. You should forget them. If a ham-fisted person like me can knock up a baseboard then I'm sure you could manage easily. I'm sure that if you made a series about building baseboards it would be of great service to your nearly 100,000 subscribers.
This is really helpful for me as my railway room gets so dusty!
Thank you! Hope it helps! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The vacuum will be helpful in a more dusty environment, even if you have to run it over daily.
Hi Sam.
Just been talking to the person you referred to. He even rants in his replies. He said Peco rubbers are the worst. People have been using them for years with no problems. Then he started on isopropyl alcohol, wow I almost lost the will to live.
Think the bloke needs professional help.
I did use the argument you put forward but did not mention you.
Keep safe mucker.
Pete and Su.
Next time on Sams trains: Sam fits all his engines with track cleaning things in there undercarriages and such
haha!! xD
Yeah drag a track rubber with a powerful loco
I wonder if I should do that for my railroad. It would save me a lot of time to just have an engine that I use for track maintenance.
This is incredibly useful, thanks. I do have a question about the Dapol vacuum cleaner: presumably the direction the fan rotates switches with voltage polarity, i.e. with the direction of travel? If so, does it blow the dust out instead of sucking it in if you go the wrong way?? I'm assuming they must have thought of that but I can't find any info that addresses this point. Thanks!
Hello Sam. Another fascinating video. My father always used a Peco track cleaning rubber since 1974. Never had any problems. It always makes the way permanent. Another classic Sam SUPERB thank you 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🐖🚄🚅
Thanks so much Mark - wow have they been around for that long?!?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Person: says track rubbers make a mess
Me: it’s just making ballast
Also, can you make a tutorial on how to make a tart class?
haha exactly - just ballast!! haha I don't know - there's no exact science to it, lol! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
"how to make a tart class?"
- Send her to a Swiss finishing school for elocution and deportment lessons?
Sorry, I'll get my coat!
Hi Sam, great video! I discovered a neat trick just the last time I cleaned the track. To apply a cleaner (e.g. isopropyl alcohol), I had previously applied it to a cloth. But every time I got to the points, I had to be very careful to stop it snagging on the pointy bits. I had the bright idea to hold a piece of cork underlay on the bottom of a plastic ruler, squirt solvent on the end, and press down against the track and run along (flat side of the ruler down). The cork glides nicely over points and untidy rail joints without a hiccup.
Thanks so much for sharing - yeah the cloth isn't ideal actually - I did see a tool in Mike's video that looked way better, I'm thinking of investing in one!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
With runing trains on carpet the amount of lint and dust picked up all depends on how cleen the carpet is and what type of carpet. Your carpet is flat hard carpet so its all good. But soft fluffy carped is definitely a no no many because it will pickup and hold alot of dust. Love the vid sam Congratulations on 100k.
Should’ve opened with The X Files theme song after you said “My personal secrets” 😂
haha I know right!! xD
hi, update. took track back to where i bought it. they cleaned it and the train worked, straight throw. bought a peco rubber cleaner. thanks
Hey Sam. I've seen the video in question and I have to say I agree with you more on the subject - I've personally been using alcohol and Peco rubber cleaners for nearly 15 years and haven't run into any major issues however I did want to get your thoughts on something. One thing the video claimed is that the rubber can leave deposits on your track which will get on your wheels, I have had this issue on stock that covers a lot of distance each month. I try my best to make sure lubricants stay off the track and 95 percent of the stuff I run has metal wheels. I don't remember having this issue in the past however this issue seems to have started after I started using the Peco branded one, instead of the one I had been using years before. Do you suspect this is due to something else or related? Thanks ~Harrison
Thanks a lot mate - yeah never had a problem with track rubbers either! I think it depends on the rubber - I once bought a Gaugemaster one that was horrible, and left all kinds of gunk on the track. Never had it happen with the Peco one though! You never know though - an experiment/investigation into that might make a good vid?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Me who just accidentally Broke a point while fixing a derailment issue: Interesting
For anyone wondering: I was Un nailing my track and a bit of rail got ripped off
Oops!! Did you fix it??! :(
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I found the person who gave the misinformation about the track rubbers
Well said Sam! The quality of track rubber matters! I have used some horrible ones that shed way too much dust even in few strokes but this Peco one seems really reliable!
Very much so - I was put off by the price of Peco ones, and looked at Hornby and Gaugemaster ones.... both in the bin within the week!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
People who say track rubbers are bad are just using them wrong.
I really needed this video! Thanks mate
Thank you! Good luck! :D
Oh Sam what a rabbit hole this is! May I add my half penny? I too have a large loft layout and it is cleaned once a year all over, with a PECO track rubber. The next bit may be worth your experimentation? I rub sections of the layout with a 2B graphite crayon. A spark quench, contact improver, and also a dry lubricant. The latter being a reason for not over doing the graphite. If excess has been applied the track rubber will remove it! However, this does mean that the majority of the layout is cleaned once a year, loco wheels the same.
The bit of the layout the cat sleeps on needs more regular cleaning!
My show layouts and stock, many have not been cleaned for a few years, in some cases. I assume the need , or lack of cleaning, results from the layout not sitting flat in dust collecting mode all the time... Also the show layouts tend to spend much time boxed out of use and then periods of intense operation over a one or two day period.
Graphite crayons may be bought cheaply from a decent graphic arts supply shop.... Cheers for an interesting film
Have you tried putting magnets under the track cleaner to pick up metalic fragments?
Ooh you got a heart
That sounds a stunning idea - definitely give that a try! :D
@@SamsTrains The abrasive will be silicon carbide, zirconium oxide or aluminium oxide. Unfortunately none of them are magnetic.
Thank you Sam for the video. I am not sure you have proved your point.
I think it is fair to say that polishing of metal involves scratching. Sites about the making of jewellery make it clear that polishing involves making smaller and smaller scratches. However, the video by Model Railways Unlimited where new track is viewed under a microscope and the far from perfect surface demonstrated and the subsequent results of using a Peco track rubber are shown is most interesting and perhaps redeems track rubbers.
The website for Cabling Installation Maintenance does not give IPA a ringing endorsement for cleaning fibre optic cable. It is asserted that isn’t a brilliant cleaner and that it does leave a residue. Apparently IPA is hydroscopic, that is it attracts moisture to itself. The headroom in IPA containers as well as its exposure to the air brings about this effect. The suggestion is that once opened our 99.9% IPA will reduce itself to a lower purity over time and stabilises at about 65/35.
I am not sure polar and non polar is pseudoscience, although I am far from being a scientist. The dielectic constant shown in the Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine article dated 5 May 2019 seems to make sense as does the view that the build up of muck is caused by electrical arcing. Consequently, a cleaner with a low dielectic constant looks like a good idea. In the old days I guess we would have used carbon tetrachloride for certain cleaning jobs.
I am starting new with O gauge. Having sprayed the track with sleeper grime, I cleaned the heads with white spirit (mineral spirits in the USA and Canada). I was most unsure about this, but from a non polar point of view it is good. Consequently, I am going to go down the Inox MX3 road. I think I am unlikely to experience traction issues and I won’t have any traction tyres. However, your point that model railways isn’t just about electrical contact was well made and I see the benefits of Inox MX3 to slot car racers may not be directly applicable to model railways. It occurred to me that Peco Power Lube, formerly Electrolube, has been about for years.
Many thanks for sharing all of this Peter - much appreciate it!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thank goodness. I needed this, my track is worse then yours (including THOSE points).-Das Mann
haha no worries mate - hope this helps! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Oh is that a video by a guy with BNSF diesels?
I'm not sure about that!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I haven’t cleaned my track for weeks however I have recently received a gauge master high frequency unit which cleans track
Ahh interesting - I've heard about those!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
They work for DC models but will cook decoders on dcc
@@doggerbendrailway6002 there one reason to stay with DC then
I used to work my trains in a high dust area and rubber and metholated spirts worked very well on dcc
I just fitted a Gaugemaster GMC-HF2 to my (pre-cleaned) tracks yesterday, so obviously it's on trial, but I did notice the number of pulses (as it burnt off dirt) from the leds reduced substantially after only half an hour. A good part of the layout is covered and very tricky to clean manually, so hopefully it will now stay clean!
PS bought new from Hattons last year, it was forty-something pounds, less than some of the Fleabay used ones!
Inox MX3 is what you need to be using to clean and protect track - check it out.
Also, a lot of my Hornby points cause either brown outs or derailments, despite being cleaned - the frogs are just awful, and you can see and hear wheels catching and juddering across them.
The track isn't a problem, but what do you do about bad points?
I will do, thanks a lot for the tip! Yess the Hornby points are a bit like that... that's why I like locos with lots of pickups!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey Sam so I probably haven't too seen look so cool with that hornby of character I think anyway well how do they making bro
That's okay Llesh, thanks for sharing!
Sam :)
@@SamsTrains your welcome
i mean yeah if you are neat freak you can spend more time maintaining the environment for whatever your hobby happens to be, sure.
But ideally one would want to focus on (in this case) running the model trains in vast majority of time, it is equally unrealistic to expect every hobbyist is able to dedicate even the amount of space Sam has. if i were to have spare space i could only have temporary small (aprox 2x3 meters) layout, hence me preferring Transport tycoon deLuxe or Rollecoaster Tycoon - a virtual representation of various rail based fun.
Models have to thereby be capable of operating under less than ideal situations (altho not necessarily in the inflatable pool as one past episode showcased), and tracks have to be easy enough to maintain.
Sermon over .P
i would like to see comparing cleaning techniques and their pitfalls and benefits, tho that i reckon would require a stress test pre- and post cleaning? to have an idea of progression between dirty and clean states you understand. Sounds like alot of hard work.
Personal experiences of various enthusiasts vary, depending on available equipment, alas not everyone puts sufficient amount of thought into what they are sharing as facts. I can certainly see that if the video creator this is reply to had used lesser rubber and isorpopyl it would have likely resulted in significantly worse results. Now they should have presented this as such offcourse but yeah - they need mate like El Cheapo, to help them differentiate between good value and thing being too cheap for its own good.
Thanks for sharing! Yeah that's true, very good point... enjoyed the sermon!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Polar solvent or not, I would have thought that the IPA will have evaporated away shortly after use. Thereby, leaving zero residue. I don’t think the polarity of the solvent would therefore be an issue.
Hi Sam, for adding additional power to the other side of the layout do you just plug your wires into the back of the controller? (I’ve got an hm2000) and does it matter what wires you use?
It doesn't matter what wires you use, and yes you could just jam two wires into the controller if you wanted to bodge it. Probably easier to solder two sets of wires together, but whatever works for you! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Bro you can use that thing to clean the track if their is Covid-19 on the track
Tie those viruses to the track and run an express freight over them.
They won't clean Covid off the track, you will need some anti-viran solution for that which may damage the track.
I am guessing you are asking encase the track is being touched by people and not as a joke.
In that sense, the same goes for the controller, Loco and so on, So I am not sure, maybe an antibacterial cloth.
haha! ;D
I use a very fine emery block when my track gets really bad, but most of the time I used either a Hornby track cleaning coach and I have 2 gauge master track "mops" having under a inspection/directors salon. The latter normally gets given a run on each running session. Its only a case of bringing the track head back to bright.
As for dust and hair, I think it makes a big difference if you have pets, I've seen train set locos full of hair, not fluff.
Have you ever had experience of the electronic track cleaners that form part of the layouts circuitry? I just find I am ham fisted when it comes to passing through the station, and past the signals.
I would not use an emery block on the track unless it was the very, very finest grit. So fine that it polishes the track.
@@Poliss95 is certainly fine, its what I used for metal polishing in my engineering workshop, and rubbing back on paint on our traction engines. I never use anything courser than 600 grit for that.
I have used emery bocks and cloth for years, never had a issue. Why is the reason you wouldn't use it? if its because of wearing of the track, you would have to clean it 1000's of times before you had any serious degradation of track. Its unlikely the minute amount aluminum oxide dust will harm anything.
Biggest headache to date in track maintenance ......cob webs! Hadn't been in train said for several weeks and they were several on the scenic section.. but none in the fiddle yard area, so I guess they like the Southern side of the shed better haha.
@@James_Rivett Thanks a lot for sharing - never tried emery blocks as I was worried about them scratching the surface... maybe the finer stuff is fine then??
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains any abrasive will scratch the surface, the coarseness of the abrasive will dictated the coarseness of the scratches.
I hardly ever have to clean my track because using an artists graphite pencil (not a big lump of graphite which is too course) I very lightly glide the pencil along the track maybe 2 strokes for every length treated. The train wheels are never dirty and electrical charge not impaired and nothing is damaged. You can get the pencils at any good artists supply shop for about £8. It’s over a year since I last had to clean the tracks.
That sounds fantastic - I love these interesting ideas, I'll have to try that one!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Everard Junction has done a video with the American CMX track cleaner using 'Goo Gone' fluid. It's basically a tank wagon filled with cleaning fluid with a piece of cloth attached beneath the chassis. You control the flow rate of the fluid via a screw top. By far one of the best examples out there. Shame there isn't one on the British market but you could convert an old tank wagon in to one, that's what I'm planning to do in future. Maybe you could look in to it and do a video?? Would make an awesome project. I have a Hornby track rubber but also use Deluxe Materials 'Track Magic' solution, highly recommended Sam. ;)
Thanks for sharing Russell, I'll have to look into that too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I was having some trouble with mine, so I eventually just polished it with a rotary tool
Also solder your joints if you aren't going to disassemble 2 tracks
Ahh nice - which attachment did you use? I bet that'd do a good job with ditched track!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Good video. I have been cleaning my track using bleach and a 14 inch industrial angle grinder and I have to regularly replace my entire model railway because of the unspeakable carnage. Thanks for the advice.
So that guy was clickbait that’s the easy explanation.
haha I don't know about that - it was just a poor demonstration!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains yes I’ve been watching for 4 years now.
Hi Sam - for what it's worth I've used IPA on a cotton bud on narrow gauge tracks and it works superbly, evaporating quickly and leaving no residue (quick tip - you can also use it for cleaning video recorder and audio cassette heads if you're old skool). I would urge caution about using WD40 on trackwork - not because it won't work but because WD40 can have catastrophic effects on loco chassis with lots of plastic in there (Obviously Hornyby Dublo and the like will not have this problem). A friend tried WD40 to clean a Berlinerbahn TT loco chassis - which promptly fell apart! Forewarned is forearmed
Thanks for sharing David, yes I've never had a problem either! Yeah I wouldn't put WD40 anywhere near my models... the contact cleaner remains to be seen though!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The only model railways use for WD-40 is to oil the hinges of your front gate so the missus doesn't hear the postie delivering your extremely expensive new loco. :-)
Again great video Sam. I find using methylated spirit dose a great job of cleaning the tracks aswell as the loco wheels
Sam, why not going modular? If you have to move one day, only one or two modules has to be adapted or rebuild.
Great idea - that could be fun... I'd rather build a large permanent installation somewhere though... that's the dream anyway!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Nice video Sam. Would be nice if you could do more mythbusting with model railways. Your "experiments", older model reviews and themes running sessions really sets you apart from other channel. Looking foward to you getting 100k subscribers soon!
I just use a Peco track rubber. I've had the same one for about 10 years. The track gets cleaned fairly regularly, maybe once every two months (or as I see fit).
Never had any issues.
Me too William - they're great aren't they?! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam. I use a Dapol track cleaner (inter city blue livery) on a DC layout. I found I had to put a bridge rectifier in the suppy to the motor as the vacuum only worked in one diection. In the other direction it blew the balast etc out from the sides of the wagon. Perhaps mine was an earlier model. It now works fine in either diection.
I use lighter fluid, that works fine an no rubber crumbs.
Sure, lighter fluid does a great job!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
My wife says 4 strokes is not enough
As someone who working on his minor in geology... If we use the Mohs hardness scale on metal and on rubber you will find the hardness of nickel is 4, and the hardness of rubber is 0. Moh's Hardness scale works on the principle of "Can X scratch Y". Our fingernails have a hardness of around 2.5, and Diamonds have a hardness of 10. So Diamonds can scratch everything, nickel can scratch our fingernails, our fingernails can scratch rubber.
So im just going to say... if your track rubber is ruining your tracks... your track is either made of something somehow weaker than rubber, or that rubber is not rubber.
What about the gauge master and hornby track cleaner wagons?
I've never used them, but I don't think those have vacuums!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sorry Sam, but some of what you're saying is itself faulty.
First, while I get why you're annoyed by the video you bring up... the arguments and uncertainties about track cleaning and whether rubbing is good or bad go back DECADES. They have raged through magazines and forums before UA-cam even existed. That video, even if it's from some sort of big-ish name channel, is a drop in the bucket. As far as using it edge-on goes... it's not like these things come with instructions in my experience, so how is someone supposed to be sure which way? And edge-on _is_ what you typically want when erasing on paper, so it seems a natural assumption to make.
Second, what if track _is_ seriously nasty and dirty? You don't really address what to do there, and how much rubbing can be expected. I've got some track that seems to have gotten seriously grubby.
Third, your dismissals of the idea of damage from track erasers and the possibility of carpet fluff getting into the works are faulty. Just because it hasn't happened to _you_ doesn't mean it doesn't happen _period_.
* As far as carpet fluff goes, I can personally attest to that happening at times back when I lived somewhere with carpet. And I've seen plenty of accounts of the same on forums. Although if you pay attention and remove it in a timely manner, it doesn't actually ruin anything like some people whinge it does. Just know that it _does_ in fact happen - you've simply happened to luck out regarding your carpet.
* As you yourself acknowledged, not all track erasers are equal. Don't lose sight of that; it's a fact that some are more on the abrasive side and _can_ scuff the track. Hell, some track cleaners are really more sanding blocks or household scouring pads. Damage can and does happen - people apparently have brought in microscopes here.
Also, when it comes to IPA... Most people buy isopropanol *at the store* - they _don't_ special-order it off eBay or the like. And I bet you at supermarkets and convenience stores, most IPA _there_ will be 70% just like it is here in the 'States. Have a gander the next time you're at Tesco or wherever.
Regarding contact-cleaner, you have to be careful. Some actually _are_ polar, so you have to make sure you're getting a brand that's non-polar and has protector.
A good non-polar solvent is apparently plain old odorless mineral spirits.
I saw in an American video on youtube that the guy had a Tidy Track which is a cleaning head attached to a metal handle via a moveable joint. It followed the rails and he just pushed it around. Quick and easy.
Look how prominently the A2/2 is featured in this video. Warming up to it a bit are we?
You mean to say I've been feeling guilty for using a track rubber all this time for no reason! 🤦🏻♂️ Well done Sam, great job dispelling the myths 👍
haha not at all - they do a great job! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I threw out my fibre pen as the shards are a nightmare to get out off fingers
Yeah they're not nice - got to be very careful!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
One thing NOT to do, is put your rails in a dishwasher... More seriously, thanks for the tips on maintenance of your tracks, it's very interesting. Especially the part when you removed a fishplate with a screwdriver, I did not thought doing this.
Budget Model Railways had tested cleaning a locomotive with WD-40 and the engine was properly running after this operation. There might be other products more suited for cleaning, and not polar too as WD-40 is not a polar one as far as I know. I'm waiting for your benchmark, that would be interesting.
By the way, IPA 99,9 % costs around GBP 15 to 30 a litre, I found some on Amazon. You can try by yourself now.
I saw that vid what u r talking bt
If you are experiencing a power drop between one side of your layout and the other. You could try 1 of 3 things, # 1 solder your rail joints. #2 solder a jumper wire over the joints. #3 bus power threw heavy gauge wire, and connect from bus wire to the track in multiple places around the track. "Cleaning" the track I use 2000-5000 grit polishing sandpaper no residue left behind no scratch marks either. You use that fine of grit you are buffing and not sanding.
Just seen this. Very helpful but it does have one flaw. Sams layout is all on the floor and as such is easily accessible. This makes sense to use the Peco rubber. My and I suspect many other layouts are on a raised baseboard with some area of track difficult to access. Others will also have tunnels. These make cleaning with a rubber impractical. Its unfortunate that the cleaning function of the Dapol cleaning is dismissed and only the vacuum function highlighted. It would have been helpful to go into these functions. There are 2. One is the rotary device which will clean then polish the rails. I would warn against using the coarser disks as I found they grind the surface of the rail. Use fine or medium ones. The other function is the liquid tank which feeds to pads which spread the cleaning fluid. After doing this the unit can be run again using the rotary function with a pad to clean off the residue. Dapol do supply a cleaning fluid Its worth noting that if you have DCC it has a dcc socket. An accessory decode will enable control the vacuum and rotary speeds..So for awkward and hidden parts of the track this does work well.
If you look at alcohol proof measurement 100o (generally referred to as 100 degrees proof alcohol) it is around 60% alcohol. 70O (generally referred to as 70 over proof) is nearly 100% alcohol.
Proof measurement came about as a method of checking if alcoholic drink was stronger than allowed for payment of taxes and was used in “the field” by excise men.
The method was to pour the acholic drink to be measured onto gunpowder if it burnt then the content was “over proof”.
The zero after the proof measurement is meant to be superscript but youtube can't handle it.
Strange about IPA supposedly causing your track to possibly get dirtier quicker afterwards, I have watched many videos about reconditioning/restoring old computers/games consuls etc. They all use IPA to clean motherboards etc, and don't have problems with it attracting dirt again. So wouldn't worry about it.
A very interesting post. I know a dealer who regularly uses lighter fluid on his track cloth. It's amazing. Steveo
I have the same habit. But I have seen, wheel surfaces need to be tended to. On older locos, chemicals do not always clean properly. Slight resurfacing with 1200 sand paper can be very effective.
Does Electrical Contact Cleaner work, instead of IPA 99.9%? Useful video thanks. I have a mixture of track between 35-50 years old, that has never been cleaned and only recently been used for the first time in 25 years! The locomotives are the same age and need a service too!
The best way to keep track clean is to not use track power. Electric track creates a magnetic field that attracts dust in the air to the rails. That's why you can get dirty track even if you don't run the layout for a while: because of the electromagnetic charge.
I absolutely love your "Tart" Class for its dead-rail power supply.
Metal wheels on metal rails actually polish each other. Prototype rails have a very shinny line in the top of the railhead from where the wheel makes contact because of the metal on metal contact.
You say you are responding to a video from a friend. I am curious about what video you are referring to. I will come forth and say that I don't use track power to run my O Scale 2 Rail models (I use dead rail battery power). This means I do not have to worry about cleaning track because my locomotives have their power source onboard (even tiny 0-4-0T's). I do however work on layouts with track power.
IPA is something that concerns me, and the more research I did on it, the more I wanted to stay away from it. Just because it's a good disinfectant doesn't mean it's a good cleaner. The water (even in 99.9% IPA) will attract dust and dirt from the air to the railhead, especially when electrically charged. The water (regardless of how little there is) is the "why" behind it being a polar solvent. You almost said it, and I'd encourage you to look into it further. It also causes micro arcing, which can over time, which will damage the rail head. The pits caused by micro arcing will oxidize the contact points on the rail (the "Interface" between rail and wheel you talked about). This will impede electrical contact between rail and wheel.
Recently, there has been a lot of discussion on this topic. In the USA, it seems that mineral spirits are the best and most recommended solution so far if you use a liquid track cleaner. I use it on the layouts I work on, and I have had great results with it. If you use an appropriate small amount, the light film left behind can actually help increase electrical contact between your locomotive and the rail, and it won't attract dirt and grime as easily as IPA. I think that's worth investigating in a future video. Here's a link if you don't know Ron from Ron's Trains: (ua-cam.com/video/lBYxjcTWCB0/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Ron%27sTrainsNThings).
I'd love to see a follow-up video on the topic! Always appreciate your takes on modeling topics!
Re: IPA.
70% IPA will be perfectly safe both on steel and nickel-silver track. It's around the eutectic for the solution so both liquids will evaporate together. i.e. the water won't be left behind). Even so, the water used will be pretty pure. It's the dissolved salts in the water which cause corrosion, acting as electrolytes allowing the electro-chemical reaction to cause oxidation.
As for 99.9% pure IPA possibly causing more dirt build up in future, well the people you've been listening to are using pseudo-science I'm afraid. The IPA evaporates completely leaving no residue, other than that which was on the rail to begin with.
As for switch cleaner/lubricant. Now that does leave behind an oil residue which will cause traction issues and enhance dirt collection on the rail. Some (but not all) switch cleaners do have reducing agents which will attack the tarnish, but a track rubber would be far more efficient at removing the tiny amounts on the rail head, which is where the wheel makes electrical contact.
Just had a thought that when I cleaned my track with INOX I found that my 4-4-0 with traction tyres started slipping on the incline and no longer able to pull its load up the hill.??? I wonder if that's the problem. YES, please do a video on that. Cheers
Hi Sam I've tryed this other method and I did find that the pulling power of your loco"s is compromise . As I have a incline on my layout and evan my 9F had trouble hauling a normal load up the in cline. So I went back to the peco track rubber and ipa. You should do the the pulling test with the conductivity spray . The spray also not good with any loco with traction tyres. Regards Mark
Did you ever get around to experiment with non-polar/contact cleaners? I'd be very interested in such a video, as I'm currently building phase 1 of my dream layout.
At the end of this video you mentioned that you have power going into your track in multiple locations, but my question is where is the source the power is coming from? I’ve always thought about having an extra pair of wires coming from my controller to go to the other side of my layout, but I’ve always been told that if you have multiple wires attached to a single output, then problems will occur.
Another thing that I have found with continuity in the track is soldering the fishplates to the rails.
Isopropyl alcohol has always been recommended here to clean wheels and tracks due to the fact that it leaves no residue when evaporated. I am a bit concerned to what you pointed about the IPA being a "polar cleaner". I would really appreciate if you could perform some kind of test on that topic. What the Hell was that thing at the front of the Dapol wagon?? :) And by the way, do you recommend the Dapol Track Cleaning Wagon? I'm thinking on purchasing one. Is is really worthy? Thanks in advance.
Isopropyl alcohol is generally compatible with most plastics. "Contact cleaner" is not. There is also no standard formulation for contact cleaner. Wurth contact cleaner oil, for example, has a completely different formulation than Wurth contact cleaner and circuit board cleaner. Before you use any particular contact cleaner, test it on a spare piece of track and whatever else you plan on it coming in contact with. I've had contact cleaner melt a keyboard into a puddle of goo before.
Also probably test it to see if it fully evaporates. Some are formulated to explicitly leave some oil behind. Generally the "circuit board cleaner" types don't do this.
Personally, i don't go anywhere near my tracks with anything abrasive, and as you can clearly see on the sheet of brass, it does create scratches. I've seen a vid where someone used a microscope to view his tracks before and after using a track rubber, and the scratches were a lot deeper after he used it. these scratches will catch grime faster, requiring more cleaning. I've started using ATF after testing it on very old tracks that haven't been cleaned in 10 years (not exaggerating), and the first 3 laps my loco still came to a halt, but then at higher speeds it ran over the bad parts, and after 5 or 6 laps it was like new. After i've done work in my room (for example, after cutting a piece of wood with my jigsaw) i will put some benzene on a rag or cotton bud, clean the tracks and reapply ATF with a cotton bud. 1 inch on each beam, and the run a long train around for 6 laps. What the ATF does is dissolve the corrosion which is a semi conductor, and create a tiny film on which dirt will have a hard time sticking. It will not damage plastic parts, in theory it can cause swelling of rubber tires but i haven't noticed anything yet (yes, i do run with rubber tire, shame on me). Using ATF will leave you with a layer of black shit, but it doesn't affect running properties. I'm not saying anyone has to start using it, but i will say that i'm convinced that it works very well.
Nice review Sam ,I’ve never had trouble with Peco track rubber ,it really does depend on how you use it ,gently is my way & it works ,but do it often .😊
I do use a Peco track rubber especially on old very dirty track. Yes there is no denying that it does leave micro scratches on the rail surface but they are very very fine and not the craters that some would have you believe. Seeing the state of the rubber in some videos suggest they are also pressing to hard, it only requires light pressure. On new and cleaner track I have used mainly 99.9% IPA but having also watched model railways unlimited video I am trying out the WD40 contact cleaner to see if there is any difference like he saw in his experiment.
Hi Sam pooh those rubbers boy I believe the other person...Not! Enjoyed this it was educational I run track outside and yes it does rain here but the track is fine so what's the deal about 20% of water?? Duh. And yes do a tractive experiment. Cheers
My line is 45mm gauge but I clean my line with just a wet rag. But because the track cleaning was getting to annoying I have switched to live steam which is a lot better. It worked very well but for a line which is outside and very long and large it takes forever. About 5 minutes per running day which is almost every day of most of the year. It worked very well but also I had to go over it more than just once as its outside and it gets very dirty. To take those 5 minutes to 10. Live steam is a bit more expensive but it’s a lot les of a hassle to set up an in many cases a lot quicker.
Best regards
Sam-(it’s my name)
VVR
abrasives in particular are a real no-no if you have a hybrid metal for rails. Lego 9V track for instance is electroplated copper - If you expose the copper it oxidised (goes green) - that oxidization will creep through the material and makes the moving parts in the points brittle. In a high salt and humidity environment like coastal Australia, it's basically game over for your track once its started.
I started using the Dapol track cleaner and fluid, found my track became greasy. Gone back to the 70's method, can't beat mentholated spirit. Oh and of course track rubber.
I have a serious question. If you use the dapol vacuum only running it on DC and use the 9V battery train as your cleaning set up. Could you possibly remove the 9v battery train and replace it with a bluetooth E-Z app bachmann train instead? If can would you do a video about it and try it? Im curious on what your thoughts are about this idea.
P.s i also want you to do a review of the bachmann bluetooth e-z app trains because i think you will explain it better. 😂
Absolutely spot on Sam. I use a Peco rubber too and I've never had any problems with it. I also use my Dapol track cleaner in vacuum mode only. (I found that some of the rotating pads caught point blades.) I've found IPA and a cotton bud is ideal for cleaning between point blades and the adjacent rails.
Thanks very much Les - yeah I do swear by the rubbers, with gentle use I've never had any issues!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Forget the IPA Sam and go for something that electricians use, this is a conductive material, model trains and rails are essentially the same as switches, so use Servisol super 10, its a switch gear lubricant, designed for the job.
Sam, "Today, I am going to be spilling some of my personal secrets..."
Me: Wow yes please.
Sam, "on track maintenance."
Me: 😐
Konichua Keikyu.
haha yeah... not the most fun thing! What secrets were you hoping to be spilled?!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam There seem to be more theories about track cleaning than any other area of railway modelling. I like you watched the video about Polar & none polar cleaners, but again like you don't really know what to think about it. I have to say at present I am a Peco track rubber and vac man with the occasional rub with IPA. Wouldn't you think that these days there would be a tried and trusted scientifically proven best way of doing it.
So two questions
1. Are hornby track rubbers any good?
2. Do you ever need to replace points, as overtime they lose connection and the spring loses strength
Did you ever do a traction comparison between contact cleaner and IPA etc.?
I find using the contact cleaner Inox as some suggest does an amazing job; both in terms of cleaning the track and then cleaning all the wheels of all stock that runs on it afterwards - only issues are that you need to then wipe the tracks regularly as all the dirt comes off the wheels; plus it does reduce the natural friction of the rails and reduces the ability of a loco to haul longer trains.
My conclusion was to use it just to clean wheels of used stock in bulk when I acquire the items, then use ipa to clean it off the tracks again when done.
I use isopropanol (99+%) to displace water whenever I get some sensitive electronics (i.e. a phone, data logger, etc.) wet as a means of preventing water damage. It's very effective. Just because it has a bit of water in it doesn't mean it'll somehow deposit that water on whatever it is you're cleaning with it. Quite the opposite, it absorbs whatever water is there as it tries to dilute.
I use a hand held Shark vacuum cleaner to suck up up dust from the track. A small soft paint brush helps loosen dust too. If track rubbers were bad for cleaning track they would not be available/sold. The Peco ones have been around for years.
I made a rolling sponge wagon years ago when I had a track layout. Put WD40 on the sponge and sent it around the track. Damn that sponge did a good job.
Fishplates are a provervial pain, even with pinned track they loosen with time. The trick is with a permanant layout is to divide the track into sections and solder the track in that section into one unit and provide droppers to the power supply for each section, Soldered track runs far more smoothly and super reliably. Sections shouldn't be too big and if your layout is in an area subject to temeprature extremes there is a slight risk of track warping but careful planning mitigates this risk to almost zero
I cleaned my track yearly but it wasn't used that often. I run a finger on a rail and see how bad the line was it left on my finger, then used a bit of wet and dry sand paper on a block. Your carpet looks rather hard and industrial, I could be wrong but industrial carpets will work better than normal household carpets
Who is mike?
Hi Sam I just wanted to let you know I followed your advice, on our railway club layout everyone has a station they control so as to teach other club members. I decided to clean up my station trackage first using the Peco rubber and it cleaned up a treat, everything runs well and better now so I thought I would say cheers.
Great to hear that Guy - they are amazing things - thanks for the feedback mate! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I agree sam, the gaugemaster track rubber is just awful. It drops tons of mess. I have since converted to the alchohol stuff.
I made a track cleaning wagon ... i use a cut out piece of fine rubbing block on the bottom... seems as fine as the peco rubber ...
Goo Gone. Cleans track well and will make the loft smell like oranges.
haha really?! ;D
Hi Sam I clean my track with methylated spirits it seems to work for me.
That sounds good - thanks for the tip!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)