Credit to these guys! Turned this around very fast. Can confirm that Chris can get it up very quickly 🎉 even as a cyclist Few comments to add: The easy answer to the 305W NP questions is - it doesn't get easier you and everyone else just get faster. The avg. speed of the bunch I bet has gone up I bet over the years. Secondly, Mr Bigham has been on the phone to say every GC leader should ride an aero bike. While the CFD says deep in the bunch there is up to a 95% drag reduction, the ride files don't show that, which he has access to :) Some more comments about tubeless - the tubeless center channel depth is really important when it comes to safety, yes you can make it deeper for easy installation (and the bead seat diameter can be the same at the wall) but if the bead slips down into the deeper channel under total pressure loss it is equally easy for the tyre to come off!
I've been hoping for this one for a while. Great to see you on; and I loved that you grabbed the calculator as soon as Jesse started asking watts numbers :D
Wow, this was my absolutely favorite episode! Great job to all 3 of you. As an engineer, I am in absolute awe of how well Alex can explain such complex topics and make it seem so interesting. He is a fantastic teacher. Keep up the good work with the podcast guys! you're absolutely right, the goal is to generate the conversation, and not cover 100% of the details.
I started this thinking "no way am I gonna get through an hour and a half".... got to the end like "wait yall are done already?" Great stuff, pod keeps getting better and better.
Loved the longer format and being able to hear Alex's viewpoints on multiple topics. Alex's depth of knowledge came across even better than it does in his own channel.
@@ChrisMillerCycling Very impressed with the 'common man' application from PT. He is only the second guy I have heard mention the 'stacked springs' idea on a bike and that things are too stiff most of the time. I have a saying that I think applies to most situations and most people riding a bike: "Smoother is faster". I do a lot of gravel riding, often on review bikes, carbon wheels, etc, and that really is a case where compliance is nearly always faster overall. And I am just now planning a new road bike build and contemplating 32s and a shallow carbon wheel for road. For where I live and how I ride, I think it is a smart choice, but I keep getting distracted by the 'shiny rocks' that modern bike marketing tosses out. We shall see. Thanks for the food for thought.
Interesting discussion. As an F1 analyst, Ive bern struggling to understand this ‘aero’ issue, all of sudden bike manufacturers, and especially many cycling enthusiasts I met on the road becoming aero experts. In F1, even big names like Scuderia Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren DO make mistakes in understanding aero. Those teams have enormous budget & state-of-the-art wind tunnels & R&D by reputable engineering teams. Not to mention carbon layup, where to make it stiff & where to ‘cheat’ (heard of flexi wing?). This is a very good video with substantial discussion 👍 The real reason enthusiasts want aero bikes is because aero bikes are neat looking.
Correct, fact of the matter is, wearing a pair of $25 aero socks reduces drag by more than the SL8 Roval stem and bar combo, but people want the bike anyway because its prestigious.
Is it just me confused at the start of the vid? Is it not the venge spaceship with the dodgy brakes was 2 mins faster than the previous bike that was never named? So the SL8 is only 12 seconds faster than that original venge?
Great episode gentlemen; easily in the top 5 of all-time for the Nero Show. Recommend at least quarterly collaborations with PT. I’m personally a big fan of PT as well. I think your approaches to subjects relating with our sport are complimentary. Presents a very researched approach & useful contrast to questionable industry directions. Again, very solid episode! Cheers!
I'd love for you to dive into your hefron park data set and see if the speed has changed over the years. If everyone else has swapped from round tube bikes to aero rigs over the last 10 years then maybe everyone is still pushing the same power as always, but the pack is going a little bit faster? Rather than expecting Chris's watts to drop as if he's in isolation and the only one on a faster bike. Potentially the same reason why pro races have gotten a bit quicker over the last 5ish years.
Edit: great video! loved it, what a star line-up of guests you've got on here Additional comment: The Hefron Park analysis has a faulty premise. CMiller is able to do 305 W normalized for the race, and with a faster bike he's just going to be going faster for that same power. His placings might not have improved much (if at all), because his competition will have also been slowly upgrading to more aero bikes (presumably). What I'd like to see whether the average speed of these races has tended to increase over the years, because with constant normalized power that would be indicative of aerodynamics having improved overall.
Thank God someone has finally pointed out that aero savings in the bunch is basically zero. Imagine all those pros choosing the aero bike and sitting in the bunch all day. Thanks TP
@@Pablo_Coach VERY FEW amateurs are riding at 37-40kph SOLO for extended periods of time and even then most manufacturers quote savings based on speeds around 45-50kph. That may not seem like much but form (aerodynamic) drag is a function of speed squared so actually it is. For the vast majority of regular riders it might be 4-5 watts MAX saving, then factor in if it’s a hilly route it could be nothing (or less). As PT says body position saves you far more My point still stands. I agreed with you that an aero bike can benefit those riding alone. A pro (or amateur) riding in a bunch gets zero benefit. The one who truly benefits is a pro going on the break as they’re solo & can maintain the speeds where the claimed aero benefits can be realised
@@pantster9855 im average amateur and riding my local 60km loop at avg 38kmph, I started riding bikes at age of 37 and now I have 42 (all my past live is without any spor, activity). So many amateur in hood shape riding at 40avg
Since aerodynamics is so personal (and manufacture claims are so dubious), I test my gear a velodrome. I measure the watts required to ride at a given speed. Then do it again with the new gear at the same speed. If I don’t see meaningful watts saved, then I return or resell the product. Job done
I think a good example of a large rider who focused on system aero was Adam Hansen. He would ride the Helium over the Noah with negative stem, wild drop to the 38cm bars all to get low and narrow. Did have the 35mm bars for stiffness/weight (sponsor), imagine that would be integrated now if it could be had with the negative stem.
Listened to the podcast but came here to comment: this is one of the best if not the very best episode of any cycling related podcasts I have ever heard... Up there with the early Silca (Josh) marginal gains episodes. So much free game from a guy with a lot of knowledge. ❤ I love you Nero Show keep up the good work!!!
@PeakTorque I believe you misunderstood the analysis WRT the venge vias. It was 2 mins faster compared to what it replaced (Specialized Tarmac SL5 I believe). Then the venge was a smidge faster and the SL8 is claimed to be a smidge faster still. That's all with respect to the SL5 Tarmac, not the venge vias.
I quite like PT in this format. Definitely one of the best episodes so far. Would love to hear Bikotic on the show and listen to Chris and Jesse pick his brain on frame geometry and western brands that are sharing moulds.
Superb. The cycling industry is a total mess. Endless unproven BS claims. The whole community benefits from people like Alex. This is the direction you guys should target. Real talk. No marketing/sponsor shilling. Actual science backed information. Same as what Jesse does with his training content.
Supurb job Chris with the show in general, but also the top-tier lineup of guests you've managed to get on recently. Shows the respect the youtube cycling crowd is showing the Nero show.
I hope you guys paid attention, "smaller, slimmer the front tire the faster you go" the rest is pure marketing :P I am still using my 23mm oldddddd continental GP4000 until they rot, after that i will test the GP5000 TR like Alex told us to do :)
Very interesting show this week guys. Alex clearly knows his stuff. Cycling is a really awesome sport because there’s so much to it, it has a discipline to suit everyone, there’s all sorts of tech, training and fashion and things to talk about and argue over. Cycling is life.
I found this channel couple of years ago through Jesse's training videos and enjoyed the content as Nero Racing Team trying to crack Europe - but the re-branding to a chatshow/topical podcast style channel has me staying on waiting for every video. Great show guys!
Well done gents, fantastic chat. Appreciate the editing effort, Chris - I imagine it’s not easy to achieve with the timing lag when chatting between continents, but you were able to edit that brilliantly. Also, Alex does know his audience.. winspace hyper wheels rider here 😂
Yeah Im with most here, you absolutely killed this one. Great guest and you guys are clearly starting to settle into the feel of your podcast well. Had to laugh at irony of Alex telling you no one listens yo video over 10mins as you and him punch out an awesome 1:30!
started watching but didnt think i'd stick for 90mins...and here I am at the end...great conversation, thanks to all....PS my University lectures are rambling observations too...but with solid knowledge and experience 😉
I think you guys twisted some info in the beginning, at 00:01:12 you are explaining tha the original Venge Vias was saving 2 min over their previous road bike and that the later Venge was 8sec faster and the SL8 another 3.5sec. But going further you suddenly say that the SL8 was saving over 2min compared to the Vias? Should the differenc ebetween Venge Vias and SL8 not be only 12 seconds? Maybe i got it wrong.
Awesome video and discussions, one of my favorite ones in past months 👍opposing to Jesse's recommendation I actually did a 740km / 25h non-stop ride on my Hyper 65mm wheels and survived 🙂
really love and respect what Alex is saying in regards to how we can't see aero and aero testing (caveat being Adrian Newey 🐐) as well as bringing in aero packages and how they interact with the whole system including the rider. The whole aero system was also something Newey mentioned in his book how to build a racecar. Very open, critical and inquisitive engineering view.
Simply and incredibly - this was awesome, guys. Could listen to you all for 8 hours...easily. So much learned, explained, discussed. Please make a follow-up or next episode with Alex in the future, if you can. Will be waiting for it.
Hey Jesse, your comments at 10:00 re Chris at Heffron. Did you normalise Chris's performance (NP) against speed? So he Is still doing the same NP from 8 years ago on a non aero bike but the field is going faster so needs the same NP
Very interesting, especially since you got in really deep in some subjects. What i like the most about you is that you don't repeat the mainstream marketing crap many goes on and contributing to creating a mutual agreed truth about stuff without questioning.
100 percent agree I have the 2018 old canyon aeroad rim brake, and I have ridden the new expensive disk brake bikes and the canyon is by far better and faster … aero, 7.0kg with ultrega di2
This podcast scratched so many itches, great job guys. And yeah Hambini does love a bit of trolling but i have a couple of chats with him away from the youtube scene and he does come across as a sound guy to me, i dont drink but would happily have a pint or two with him. I kinda wish Mike Burrows was still around, he used to visit Bikefix a lot when i was there and had some great chats with him he was such a nice guy and i would love to put PT, Hambini, Dan Bigham, Allen Millyard and Mike Burrows in a room together and just listen to them put the world of cycling to rights and see what they could come up with. That would be my bike engineering dreamteam.
Peak Torque i love not afraid to speak the truth no BS both Chris and Jesse could learn from this interview you cannot sit of the fence forever Guys this was a top video covering so many important aspects of the bike industry to day Thanks.
@@ChrisMillerCyclingMaybe they mean how Chris will make a point or argument and Jesse disagrees and gives a counter or vice versa? So maybe as a group you’re “on the fence”? I think you two try hard to give both sides of the argument, even if it’s just one person playing devil’s advocate. I appreciate this. I love the show. Love the point / counterpoint, no.. but, yes.. and your awareness of your biases and attempts to try and understand other cyclists in their opinions/ biases/etc..
@PeakTorque i wanted to ask one main question and a side question if thats okay :). regarding the discussion at 1 hour 5 minutes 1:05:00 you essentially summarised that you've found from independent testing and ineos testing that internal rim width is faster at 40kmh the narrower the rim internal is. does external rim width make a difference in that regard? because im very familiar with the concept that the larger the percentage ratio of width internal to width external means the better crosswind stability in very basic summary. Chris miller cycling even covers this in their most recent video "The Fastest Carbon Wheels All Use This Width | NERO Show Ep. 102." so basically do wheels like "hunt 60 limitless aero" or "roval rapide CLX II" suffer an aerodynamic detriment for having a very large external width (34mm) but smaller internal rim width (21mm): because you mention having a smaller internal width is more aerodynamic: and other sources conclude that having a larger external width is better for crosswind stability: so would wheels like these 2 theoretically have the best versatility for crosswind stability and aerodynamics? or is the aerodynamic gain being lossed due to the external width: it wasnt clarified in the conversation if external width meant anything. One more question if i absolutely may ask (its ok if you dont want to answer) i know Hunt have a negative rep for a few reasons especially with hambini and QC (i believe their QC has gotten alot better now but im not sure.) they're my local wheel manufacturer and i know from independent testing that wheels like the "hunt limitless 60" are consistently fast (usually second behind roval rapides CLX II.) but i wanted to have your opinion from an engineering perspective about hunt: i struggle to swallow hambini's criticism completely (it feels a bit radically staged or dramatic due to very small little flaws in their construction process.) i understand they're a chinese company (which i have no issue with.) but whether they're a company you'd see an issue with for somebody like me to buy from versus something like the "Elitewheels drive 40k" or "light bicycle custom wheels." the limitless 60's im looking at are incredibly heavy but very tempted by them if i want to go deep (as a lighter rider i dont feel confident with going over 50mm unless its with a stable wheel. otherwise id go for a lighter 40mm) thanks for the read if you've made it this far :). appreciate your content alot: you're one of my top 3 cyclists that inspire me
I ride a 2016 synapse carbon with 60mm carbon wheels. My mates have all gone down the aero route. Over an hour of fast riding I have never been blown away by anyone on disc brakes. Canondales, venges, tarmacs, and ENondas seen them turn up and got to the coffee stop at the same time. If I ride my winter bike in aluminium wheels with my mates I have to draft longer and work harder as I’m about 2 -4 minutes slower on most of our courses.
@@ChrisMillerCycling I’m quite e happy on 25s on rim brake bikes but ride 30 , 30 on disc to dial out the high frequency buzz. Disc frames I have ridden are much stiffer and without a fat tyre I get numb hands and feet. Great show by the way really enjoys it
How is it that I watched for an entire 90 minutes? Very nice work guys. Very interesting and thoughtful! Thanks. I guess I will be following @peaktorque now. 😂
Only 10 minutes in and came to say that this is fucking wicked. You guys are improving each week and becoming the voice of cycling - keep up the wicked work and excellent guests
Credit to these guys! Turned this around very fast. Can confirm that Chris can get it up very quickly 🎉 even as a cyclist
Few comments to add: The easy answer to the 305W NP questions is - it doesn't get easier you and everyone else just get faster. The avg. speed of the bunch I bet has gone up I bet over the years.
Secondly, Mr Bigham has been on the phone to say every GC leader should ride an aero bike. While the CFD says deep in the bunch there is up to a 95% drag reduction, the ride files don't show that, which he has access to :)
Some more comments about tubeless - the tubeless center channel depth is really important when it comes to safety, yes you can make it deeper for easy installation (and the bead seat diameter can be the same at the wall) but if the bead slips down into the deeper channel under total pressure loss it is equally easy for the tyre to come off!
😈
🍆
I've been hoping for this one for a while. Great to see you on; and I loved that you grabbed the calculator as soon as Jesse started asking watts numbers :D
I’m here to confirm Chris can’t get it up. Jesse tho? Rock hard.
Gay.
How is this podcast just getting better and better?! This is probably my favorite episode so far. Please have PT back on again. Great job boys!
Wow, this was my absolutely favorite episode! Great job to all 3 of you. As an engineer, I am in absolute awe of how well Alex can explain such complex topics and make it seem so interesting. He is a fantastic teacher. Keep up the good work with the podcast guys! you're absolutely right, the goal is to generate the conversation, and not cover 100% of the details.
Our pleasure!
If he grew a mullet out he’d be an absolute god!
He said it! “You can’t cheat the physics” should be PTs tag line 😅. Great episode
PeakTorque has my full respect. Sending it with humility, honesty and facts. Very very rare in this world of UA-cam.
I started this thinking "no way am I gonna get through an hour and a half".... got to the end like "wait yall are done already?" Great stuff, pod keeps getting better and better.
This was the best episode yet-hands down.
and one with joe china cycling
Me: 2 UA-cam influencers find peak torque more attractive than me.
Hairdresser: They must be men!!!
Well this love triangle has had a divorce now @Hambini.
The episode we’ve all been waiting for! You guys are absolutely killing it, best pod on cycling YT.
Finally
Truth!
Probably one of the best episodes you've done. Thanks for all these amazing insights!
Wow, thanks!
Loved the longer format and being able to hear Alex's viewpoints on multiple topics. Alex's depth of knowledge came across even better than it does in his own channel.
Great to hear!
Excellent. You guys keep raising the bar on vid podcasts that are worth watching.
Glad you enjoy it!
@@ChrisMillerCycling Very impressed with the 'common man' application from PT. He is only the second guy I have heard mention the 'stacked springs' idea on a bike and that things are too stiff most of the time. I have a saying that I think applies to most situations and most people riding a bike: "Smoother is faster". I do a lot of gravel riding, often on review bikes, carbon wheels, etc, and that really is a case where compliance is nearly always faster overall. And I am just now planning a new road bike build and contemplating 32s and a shallow carbon wheel for road. For where I live and how I ride, I think it is a smart choice, but I keep getting distracted by the 'shiny rocks' that modern bike marketing tosses out. We shall see. Thanks for the food for thought.
Interesting discussion. As an F1 analyst, Ive bern struggling to understand this ‘aero’ issue, all of sudden bike manufacturers, and especially many cycling enthusiasts I met on the road becoming aero experts. In F1, even big names like Scuderia Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren DO make mistakes in understanding aero. Those teams have enormous budget & state-of-the-art wind tunnels & R&D by reputable engineering teams. Not to mention carbon layup, where to make it stiff & where to ‘cheat’ (heard of flexi wing?). This is a very good video with substantial discussion 👍
The real reason enthusiasts want aero bikes is because aero bikes are neat looking.
Correct, fact of the matter is, wearing a pair of $25 aero socks reduces drag by more than the SL8 Roval stem and bar combo, but people want the bike anyway because its prestigious.
@@NikeonaBikebut with cockpit + aero sock You have more aero than socks only
🔥These UA-camr collaborations are always the best episodes.
Is it just me confused at the start of the vid? Is it not the venge spaceship with the dodgy brakes was 2 mins faster than the previous bike that was never named? So the SL8 is only 12 seconds faster than that original venge?
It was the Venge Vias. It was never compared to the original Venge upon release, McLaren and Specialized carefully chose to pit it against the Tarmac.
In other words, the SL8 is allegedly 33w faster than the Tarman SL4
Jess Coyle may excel as a bike rider but not in the empirical sciences. As you point out, what is the original datum, a house brick!
Great work pulling in Peak Torque. Such good information.
Glad it was helpful!
Great episode gentlemen; easily in the top 5 of all-time for the Nero Show. Recommend at least quarterly collaborations with PT. I’m personally a big fan of PT as well. I think your approaches to subjects relating with our sport are complimentary. Presents a very researched approach & useful contrast to questionable industry directions. Again, very solid episode! Cheers!
Great suggestion!
I'd love for you to dive into your hefron park data set and see if the speed has changed over the years. If everyone else has swapped from round tube bikes to aero rigs over the last 10 years then maybe everyone is still pushing the same power as always, but the pack is going a little bit faster? Rather than expecting Chris's watts to drop as if he's in isolation and the only one on a faster bike. Potentially the same reason why pro races have gotten a bit quicker over the last 5ish years.
I had the same thought listening to this. And to measure if a bike is “faster” the power input would have to be a controlled constant.
Love the show but wish Jessi would fix his camera. The image is always reversed in the split screen shots ( but correct inthe solo shots).
Edit: great video! loved it, what a star line-up of guests you've got on here
Additional comment: The Hefron Park analysis has a faulty premise. CMiller is able to do 305 W normalized for the race, and with a faster bike he's just going to be going faster for that same power. His placings might not have improved much (if at all), because his competition will have also been slowly upgrading to more aero bikes (presumably).
What I'd like to see whether the average speed of these races has tended to increase over the years, because with constant normalized power that would be indicative of aerodynamics having improved overall.
well explained at 28:00 !! Industry quality process ... tanks for that. Gives a deep explanation to professionel process!
Thank God someone has finally pointed out that aero savings in the bunch is basically zero. Imagine all those pros choosing the aero bike and sitting in the bunch all day. Thanks TP
But on solo ride/TT ride aero matters
@@Pablo_Coach you’re right it does, but at the speeds amateurs ride at barely anything.
@@pantster9855 some amateurs riding at 37-40 kmph avg so it matter at that speeds. Aero matters from 20kmph
@@Pablo_Coach VERY FEW amateurs are riding at 37-40kph SOLO for extended periods of time and even then most manufacturers quote savings based on speeds around 45-50kph. That may not seem like much but form (aerodynamic) drag is a function of speed squared so actually it is. For the vast majority of regular riders it might be 4-5 watts MAX saving, then factor in if it’s a hilly route it could be nothing (or less). As PT says body position saves you far more
My point still stands. I agreed with you that an aero bike can benefit those riding alone. A pro (or amateur) riding in a bunch gets zero benefit. The one who truly benefits is a pro going on the break as they’re solo & can maintain the speeds where the claimed aero benefits can be realised
@@pantster9855 im average amateur and riding my local 60km loop at avg 38kmph, I started riding bikes at age of 37 and now I have 42 (all my past live is without any spor, activity). So many amateur in hood shape riding at 40avg
Great episode boys! Well done. Learned a lot about my own BS a few times in this. I gotta stop being a cycling diva lol
This was one of you best! Such an interesting conversation. Thanks guys.
Since aerodynamics is so personal (and manufacture claims are so dubious), I test my gear a velodrome. I measure the watts required to ride at a given speed. Then do it again with the new gear at the same speed. If I don’t see meaningful watts saved, then I return or resell the product. Job done
I think a good example of a large rider who focused on system aero was Adam Hansen. He would ride the Helium over the Noah with negative stem, wild drop to the 38cm bars all to get low and narrow. Did have the 35mm bars for stiffness/weight (sponsor), imagine that would be integrated now if it could be had with the negative stem.
you guys continually get the best guests UA-cam has to offer. Officially THE BEST cycling podcast EVER. Kudos.
BEST SHOW so far Thanks PT,JC and CM
I enjoyed this discussion… probably one of the best you’ve done… I hope you have Alex on again…. 🍻
I hope so too!
Bloody heck I don’t remember a more engrossing informative discussion as this one in a
long time. Spot on..🎉.
Forgot to commend last week but just wanted to say the bikeotic channel is awesome and I’m glad he got a shoutout!
Listened to the podcast but came here to comment: this is one of the best if not the very best episode of any cycling related podcasts I have ever heard... Up there with the early Silca (Josh) marginal gains episodes. So much free game from a guy with a lot of knowledge. ❤ I love you Nero Show keep up the good work!!!
Great episode!
This has become probably my fav cycling podcast in the last few weeks
Glad you enjoy it!
Alex is just someone I could listen to for days. Clever guy.
Hookless: thank you for confirming my suspicions. Still the best cycling talk podcast. 👏
Wow im amazed. Body position is more important than the bike. Groundbreaking stuff.
@PeakTorque I believe you misunderstood the analysis WRT the venge vias. It was 2 mins faster compared to what it replaced (Specialized Tarmac SL5 I believe). Then the venge was a smidge faster and the SL8 is claimed to be a smidge faster still. That's all with respect to the SL5 Tarmac, not the venge vias.
Could listen to Alex talk bikes & relevant engineering practices all day. Stellar guest
On of the best shows i have seen in this channel! Peak Torque is elevating yours in Galaxies
We all love Alex! 👍🤙
Lol y’all are 100% talking about me with the whole “But tbis is made specifically for this frame!” *Looks over at my Reserve Wheel and Soloist*
I quite like PT in this format. Definitely one of the best episodes so far.
Would love to hear Bikotic on the show and listen to Chris and Jesse pick his brain on frame geometry and western brands that are sharing moulds.
1:07:25 they make the front wheel wider to improve crosswind stability on deeper rims
Superb. The cycling industry is a total mess. Endless unproven BS claims. The whole community benefits from people like Alex. This is the direction you guys should target. Real talk. No marketing/sponsor shilling. Actual science backed information. Same as what Jesse does with his training content.
So good to have PeakTorque on the show. Great job! This was the bomb!
Supurb job Chris with the show in general, but also the top-tier lineup of guests you've managed to get on recently. Shows the respect the youtube cycling crowd is showing the Nero show.
We have been very lucky have these guys reaching out and keen to be apart of the show. Alex is a pure gent
I hope you guys paid attention, "smaller, slimmer the front tire the faster you go" the rest is pure marketing :P I am still using my 23mm oldddddd continental GP4000 until they rot, after that i will test the GP5000 TR like Alex told us to do :)
One of the best editions so far fellas. Thanks!
Very interesting show this week guys. Alex clearly knows his stuff. Cycling is a really awesome sport because there’s so much to it, it has a discipline to suit everyone, there’s all sorts of tech, training and fashion and things to talk about and argue over. Cycling is life.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This pod cast slaps love the Nero show
Best and most compelling one yet. Thanks for putting this together.
Awesome video fellas. Loved the topics...
Glad you enjoyed it!
This show seriously needs a disclaimer of “we’re just guessing but try to keep it entertaining”.
Awesome episode! Keep up the great work, it's always the one video of the week I'm looking forward to
Glad you enjoy it!
I found this channel couple of years ago through Jesse's training videos and enjoyed the content as Nero Racing Team trying to crack Europe - but the re-branding to a chatshow/topical podcast style channel has me staying on waiting for every video. Great show guys!
Awesome, thank you!
Great show. Specs thanks to @PeakTorque
Well done gents, fantastic chat. Appreciate the editing effort, Chris - I imagine it’s not easy to achieve with the timing lag when chatting between continents, but you were able to edit that brilliantly.
Also, Alex does know his audience.. winspace hyper wheels rider here 😂
Hey BT, thanks for the kind words on the edit, I can confirm the lagging was ‘challenging’ 😉
This is so much better than that over rated under rated knockoff
The collab we needed
Wow ..that was the best I've ever watched on any UA-cam video..well done
Yeah Im with most here, you absolutely killed this one. Great guest and you guys are clearly starting to settle into the feel of your podcast well. Had to laugh at irony of Alex telling you no one listens yo video over 10mins as you and him punch out an awesome 1:30!
1:13:10 Tyre width and calipers: How about V-Brakes instead?
Great content! Best video yet. Excellent questions and discussion. It’d be great to see Peak in the regular rotation of guests.
New fan of Alex as soon as he mentioned Winspace Hypers. 🎉🎉
started watching but didnt think i'd stick for 90mins...and here I am at the end...great conversation, thanks to all....PS my University lectures are rambling observations too...but with solid knowledge and experience 😉
I think you guys twisted some info in the beginning, at 00:01:12 you are explaining tha the original Venge Vias was saving 2 min over their previous road bike and that the later Venge was 8sec faster and the SL8 another 3.5sec. But going further you suddenly say that the SL8 was saving over 2min compared to the Vias? Should the differenc ebetween Venge Vias and SL8 not be only 12 seconds? Maybe i got it wrong.
Awesome video and discussions, one of my favorite ones in past months 👍opposing to Jesse's recommendation I actually did a 740km / 25h non-stop ride on my Hyper 65mm wheels and survived 🙂
Yeah no problem with mine either but I ride on smooth Swiss Tarmac so 🤷🏻♂️
really love and respect what Alex is saying in regards to how we can't see aero and aero testing (caveat being Adrian Newey 🐐) as well as bringing in aero packages and how they interact with the whole system including the rider. The whole aero system was also something Newey mentioned in his book how to build a racecar. Very open, critical and inquisitive engineering view.
Simply and incredibly - this was awesome, guys. Could listen to you all for 8 hours...easily. So much learned, explained, discussed. Please make a follow-up or next episode with Alex in the future, if you can. Will be waiting for it.
Hey Jesse, your comments at 10:00 re Chris at Heffron. Did you normalise Chris's performance (NP) against speed? So he Is still doing the same NP from 8 years ago on a non aero bike but the field is going faster so needs the same NP
Best episode yet, guys
Thank you for this episode. I really enjoy the coversationnal yet educationnal style.
PeakTorque is amazing!!! 😊
The best!
An aerobikes main benefit is that the stack is lower so the rider can run the stem more slammed for a more aero position if they can handle it
Very interesting, especially since you got in really deep in some subjects. What i like the most about you is that you don't repeat the mainstream marketing crap many goes on and contributing to creating a mutual agreed truth about stuff without questioning.
Loved this one! Thanks guys!
The best ever episode! Keep bring this other islander to the show! Three islanders on a talk show as hosts and another one watching them (Hawaii)!
Great great great podcast, we need Alex back again. Thanks Chris and Jesse!!!!!
100 percent agree I have the 2018 old canyon aeroad rim brake, and I have ridden the new expensive disk brake bikes and the canyon is by far better and faster … aero, 7.0kg with ultrega di2
This podcast scratched so many itches, great job guys. And yeah Hambini does love a bit of trolling but i have a couple of chats with him away from the youtube scene and he does come across as a sound guy to me, i dont drink but would happily have a pint or two with him. I kinda wish Mike Burrows was still around, he used to visit Bikefix a lot when i was there and had some great chats with him he was such a nice guy and i would love to put PT, Hambini, Dan Bigham, Allen Millyard and Mike Burrows in a room together and just listen to them put the world of cycling to rights and see what they could come up with. That would be my bike engineering dreamteam.
Really great episode, insightful and compelling argument against all the marketing claims from manufacturers. #dontbelievethehype
Peak Torque i love not afraid to speak the truth no BS both Chris and Jesse could learn from this interview you cannot sit of the fence forever Guys this was a top video covering so many important aspects of the bike industry to day Thanks.
Wow! Haven’t had too many people complain we are not opinionated enough
@@ChrisMillerCyclingMaybe they mean how Chris will make a point or argument and Jesse disagrees and gives a counter or vice versa? So maybe as a group you’re “on the fence”?
I think you two try hard to give both sides of the argument, even if it’s just one person playing devil’s advocate.
I appreciate this. I love the show. Love the point / counterpoint, no.. but, yes.. and your awareness of your biases and attempts to try and understand other cyclists in their opinions/ biases/etc..
@PeakTorque i wanted to ask one main question and a side question if thats okay :). regarding the discussion at 1 hour 5 minutes 1:05:00 you essentially summarised that you've found from independent testing and ineos testing that internal rim width is faster at 40kmh the narrower the rim internal is. does external rim width make a difference in that regard? because im very familiar with the concept that the larger the percentage ratio of width internal to width external means the better crosswind stability in very basic summary. Chris miller cycling even covers this in their most recent video "The Fastest Carbon Wheels All Use This Width | NERO Show Ep. 102."
so basically do wheels like "hunt 60 limitless aero" or "roval rapide CLX II" suffer an aerodynamic detriment for having a very large external width (34mm) but smaller internal rim width (21mm): because you mention having a smaller internal width is more aerodynamic: and other sources conclude that having a larger external width is better for crosswind stability: so would wheels like these 2 theoretically have the best versatility for crosswind stability and aerodynamics? or is the aerodynamic gain being lossed due to the external width: it wasnt clarified in the conversation if external width meant anything.
One more question if i absolutely may ask (its ok if you dont want to answer) i know Hunt have a negative rep for a few reasons especially with hambini and QC (i believe their QC has gotten alot better now but im not sure.) they're my local wheel manufacturer and i know from independent testing that wheels like the "hunt limitless 60" are consistently fast (usually second behind roval rapides CLX II.) but i wanted to have your opinion from an engineering perspective about hunt: i struggle to swallow hambini's criticism completely (it feels a bit radically staged or dramatic due to very small little flaws in their construction process.) i understand they're a chinese company (which i have no issue with.) but whether they're a company you'd see an issue with for somebody like me to buy from versus something like the "Elitewheels drive 40k" or "light bicycle custom wheels." the limitless 60's im looking at are incredibly heavy but very tempted by them if i want to go deep (as a lighter rider i dont feel confident with going over 50mm unless its with a stable wheel. otherwise id go for a lighter 40mm)
thanks for the read if you've made it this far :). appreciate your content alot: you're one of my top 3 cyclists that inspire me
I ride a 2016 synapse carbon with 60mm carbon wheels. My mates have all gone down the aero route. Over an hour of fast riding I have never been blown away by anyone on disc brakes. Canondales, venges, tarmacs, and ENondas seen them turn up and got to the coffee stop at the same time. If I ride my winter bike in aluminium wheels with my mates I have to draft longer and work harder as I’m about 2 -4 minutes slower on most of our courses.
Sounds great!
@@ChrisMillerCycling I’m quite e happy on 25s on rim brake bikes but ride 30 , 30 on disc to dial out the high frequency buzz. Disc frames I have ridden are much stiffer and without a fat tyre I get numb hands and feet.
Great show by the way really enjoys it
I’m glad you are bring smart people to chat with.
Brilliant guys, and great to hear Alex views 👏 👍
Excellent guest!
How is it that I watched for an entire 90 minutes? Very nice work guys. Very interesting and thoughtful! Thanks. I guess I will be following @peaktorque now. 😂
Great show, fantastic debate on the bike industry and the mechanics of the bike.
Hats off gents…amazing content
Another top show by the lads
Watching this ony my Canyon Aeroad 2018.
Quality session guys
Ticked all the boxes lads 👌
Excellent stuff and amazing info. I could listen to you three guys all day just geek out about bikes.
Glad you enjoy it!
Great guests coming on guys. Nice work, keep it coming!
A few months back I bought a previous gen rim brake aeroad. Makes me feel better about my purchase
I gave up on marketing hype years ago but hey- there’s one born every minute so it’s not gonna go away anytime soon.
How cool is Alex. Never seen his stuff before.
Only 10 minutes in and came to say that this is fucking wicked. You guys are improving each week and becoming the voice of cycling - keep up the wicked work and excellent guests
Solid episode, awesome. thanks guys!