Thanks for all of the great videos you guys have put together so far. Always sound great and give us a simple and great way to check out what all of this timeless gear is supposed to sound like. After listening to this and all of the other Les Pauls with various pickups thrown in, I have given up on trying to pick my favorites (my Les Paul is my favorite). I swear I choose different favorites everytime I listen to this and the blindfold test. They all have unique characteristics that will appeal to just about anyone and would all hold their own in certain situations. Thanks for the excellent sampling and look forward to future videos.
Great shows! I'm new to discovering this but as a lover of Les Paul's and a complete tone junkie I could watch this stuff all day. I've watched several shows but not all of them and I have to admit that I haven't read every single comment so if this has been brought up I apologize. It seems to me if we are going to focus on PAF's from a specific era as being the "gold standard" so to speak of the tones we are trying to achieve (and I'm totally OK with that) then it seems like in addition to measuring the resistance/impedance of the pickups, we should mention the magnets as well. And also comment that in the original PAF's from the years in question '57 when they were first used to '60 or '61 when they standardized them, there was in fact no standardization of the magnets - or the windings for that matter but I think that has been discussed. Anyone that's heard different grades of Alnico magnets knows there can be quite a difference in sound. That's probably what makes this such a compelling topic, there will always be a Mojo factor to any of these old guitars, but the proof is in the playing, and that's why your show is such a pleasure to watch.
You guys are great! I had the pleasure of playing at 1958 Les Paul Standard at Gruhns in Nashville about two months back... The PAF's in it were amazing.
13:18 that was my old username glad I could help you guys! I have a couple guitar covers with my Heritage on my channel, these days it has Bare Knuckle PG Blues PAFs and 550k pots 👍 miss the show, hope y'all are doing well 🙏
i like the fact you guys are into the tech aspect of the pickups you play and review. too many people have no clue what they're using. for the longest time all you could find out about a pickup was its dc resistance and number of turns. now you can find out not only that but the inductance of a coil, the direction of the turns, the formula of magnet( ceramic, A2,A3,A4,A5, wax potted or resin encapsulated). as far as potting is concerned the only real reason I think to pot a coil is to solidify it so it wont be microphonic. that being said some of my favorite old guitars had microphonic pickups. if you know how to control feedback you might be able to enjoy them
It will definitely be interesting to hear what component (or components) make the difference between the vintage 18watt Marshall and the new version of it. The caps in the tone stack can make a difference and although these can't be swapped out, the speaker and tubes can be.
My observations. The R59 sounded like Joe Walsh on "Life in the Fast Lane" to me. The Corsa with Manalishi pickups was kind of the middle ground of all of them. The 60 was my least favorite. The WCR's in the Heritage was almost indistinguishable from the SD Antiquiquities in the same guitar, both good. The Bare Knuckles had a weird, nasally thing going on. Nothing really sounded like the gold top. I like the tones with a little more bite.
For me the most important thing I took from this is the difference between the '58 and '60 Les Pauls soundwise. Oscar just leaps out at you which shows, imo, that there was no PAF sound, you got whatever the wind/magnet was that particular day. The other biggie was the changing of pots in the Heritage from 250k to 500k, like night and day. You two were the best on here at this type of stuff, imo, genuinely informative with passion and humour.
Guys, love your videos and you are absolutely correct about the sound quality on our end; however, garbage in, garbage out and at only 480p resolution, it would take a miracle on our end for us to get HD sound. I look forward to the progression to HD, above 720, that for those of us with killer audio can hear the most nuances possible. Keep trucking!
hi Doug and Pat, you probably know this already, but you can take a reading my plugging a lead in and measuring a cross the poles. really enjoy your dr humour. Cheers, Mark.
Glad you caught the pots. I have an H-150 and that one sounded dead in the first video. There's no point in measuring if all you're measuring is DC resistance. Check inductance, resonance peak, wire gauge,etc., and there's a little validity. You guys have way more experience with the classics than me but I do know this stuff... Thanks for all the well done videos.
The older guitars sound way more open Even with the PAFs the R9 has more compression and not as open or as good God the 58 is unbelievable 🙏 Love the channel
I just got a left handed Corsa LCPG that Larry built for me. Picked out the top from a slab of maple. I love this guitar. Tone and volume controls give a wide range of tones. Mine is wired 50s style with neck pu out of phase. With volumes matched the out of phase middle positions nails the Peter Green sound. This guitar is not a one trick pony. Out of phase sound goes away with changing the volume. Has all aged nickle hardware and grovers. Beautiful satin finish. When you consider it was hand built how I wanted it with great vintage style pickups for $2400....enough said. Great video. I liked the Manalishis in both guitars. I must say the Antiquities sounded great too.
I've got a couple sets of WCR/Jim Wagner pickups as well as a set of Bare Knuckle pups and they are all great sounding. I have a set of Crossroads in my 335, a set of Fillmores in my 2013 Les Paul traditional, and a set of Bare Knuckle The Mule pups in my 2004 Les Paul. You can't go wrong with any of these. I'm not a '59 or PAF aficionado, but they are a vast improvement over the stock classic 57 pups IMO. of course, my '64 Super Reverb on about 8 doesn't hurt either.
I like the '57 Classics a lot actually but like so many modern PAF re-creations, they're a bit hotter and better if you're trying to get an open sound while driving the amp. I'm looking at PAF style pickups for my '81 LP Custom as the bridge went microphonic. Leaning towards Lollar Imperials but also considering Fralin Pure PAFs, WCF Crossroads or BKP Mules or Stormy Mondays. I also own a '68 Super Reverb, silverface but it's an early '68 model before they changed the circuit.
I liked the sound of the Crossroads with the 250k pots. I found them too bright with the 500k pots (perhaps because of the alnico 5 magnets?) Keep up the great work guys. Love your channel.
I just tried listening again, this time through better headphones. I think I would have to lower the treble setting on your amp, but the 500k pots are less "muddy". Thanks again.
+Simon Warner I prefer the 250k pots - I like a darker tone and find they offer this and greater girth, rather than the high presence offered by the 500k variants that also appear to sound a little thinner.....decisions, decisions...
Thanks D&P for another great effort! To all: I think the fairest eval is from 26:03 to 26:45, all the Heritage, diff p/u's. They all sound very similiar to my ear since it's the same guitar. Actually, I think the WCR & Antiquities sound very close to each other. The other two p/u's sound a little different, but alot of that almost seems like it could be handled by EQ'ing. The other thing I was struck by is 'presence' of each guitar/electronics. Oscar is really present, while the 60 seems a bit... distant. The other examples showed varying degrees of being present.
I listened with headphones and the 1960 Standard and Oscar both have the great clarity and bite on the top end BUT the note doesn't have this "falling apart" quality that most of the other guitar/pickup combinations had. It almost sounds like mild distortion but it seems like the top end almost "splinters" on the other pickups. I realize that's the sound I have been trying to get rid off. The smooth, intact top end bite of Oscar is what I prefer. None of the other pickups had that. I also don't know how much the actual guitar is attributing to that quality.
Am I the only one that thinks the Antiquity pickups sounded good? They seemed to have the most "open sounding" PAF tone to them in the mix. The rest of them, boutique made pickups, all seemed to have a different "signature" tone push. Which is great to have options. But for me the Original boutique pickup maker (which is also the cheapest model of the bunch) is a great option. All depends on what your ear hears and what you want at the end of the day though.
I liked the antiquities as well. However they sound best here when played through the vox; if you go to the Symour Duncan website and listen to their sound samples, they're played through Marshall amps which sounds like putting a blanket over the sound.
Thought the R9 with PAFs sounded the worst out of the whole bunch. The Heritage with either the Crossroads, Bare Knuckles and Manalishi's sounded quite good. The Corsa with Manalishi's was superb! Would love to hear the middle position with matched sets of these pickups. Great shootout!
The bare knuckle (stormy monday) sounds bluesy. the manalishi sounds good too..but the R9 with the PAFs has to be the cats meow...it's got the "ballz". BTW..to my old ears, the 500k pots give the tone more presence. Great playing on the pickup comparo , Doug.
you guys are awesome...I am going to enjoy my steak & cabernet while I watch this, thx for putting this stuff up!! ps that green cardigan rocks. kind of an irish/navajo thing going on
Wow! That was a guitar nut's dream come true! To the comments: I put on my Sony's MDR-7506 monitors to listen to this! Considering "Oscar" as my point of reference, I liked best the Heritage with the 500K pots with both the Antiquities and the WCR''s. I couldn't really hear any difference between these two and they were my favorite of the bunch; I think the R9 with the real '59 PAFs sounded somewhat inbetween the Antiquities/WCR'S and Oscar, but not as nice as those; The H150 with the "Stormy Monday's" sounded more scooped and reminded me of Randy Road's tone on Ozzy's "Blizzard of Ozz"; H150 with the Manalishis' sounded hi-fi-like, quieter, tighter, sharper mids; Corso with Manalishis' was the one I least liked. Thinner sound all around and fuzzy top end. Thank you very much for demonstrating the HUGE difference changing the pots made on that Heritage. Now on to do the same on my own CM-150! Cheers!
In the Heritage, I really dug the WCR's (500k pots) and the Antiquities. They sounded very similar actually. But the Bare Knuckles Stormy Mondays had all that, plus definitely ballsier.
Forgetting the accuracy to vintage for a moment, and just considering what sounded "good", both the 60 and the R9 disappoint. Especially the ice pick tones from the R9. The Corsa sounded good, and the Bare Knuckle pups sound good, too. I could use them in context today, no problem.
Yup. Every pickup sounds *exactly* like.. a Vox AC10 SRT amplifier. :) Seriously though is it just me or is there a hair (a few milliseconds) of latency between attack and amp with vintage PAF's? Coming from P90's I found that to be a very noticeable thing on the vintage Gibsons I've strummed. Is this a thing or just in my head? :)
I can relate to your initial complaint. I'm not an expert on old Paul's since I've never owned one, but I have had the pleasure of playing a couple dozen of them. I had a guy at a store tell me I couldn't play a 57 reissue goldtop because it was too nice. And it was an exact replica of a 57. Well, I replied that I had played an original the week before and that he not only didn't know what he was talking about but that I would take my business elsewhere. Not gonna sell a guitar no one can play. Especially if you give them false information.
wonder how the wcr's would have compared if just volime pots were reduced to 250k, while tone pots stay at 500k.That may be nicest pot configuration to slightly lower curve, while retaining more openness.. Just wondering.
Hey you think the wcr with 350k pot’s would mimic Oscar even closer on the H150? It is the closest I’ve heard! Oscar has the thumpy compressed middy tone and the crossroads with the 250k pot was really the only one that got that close ever! Oscar was louder hence combo pots or 350k’s. Interesting!
2001 with '59 pafs tip you off to how many variables there are that make the '58 sound as amazing as it does. You'll never capture Oscar's sound by simply changing pickups. With that said, this series is an awesome resource.
What happened to neck and middle tones???? I think the stormy monday pickups complemented the heritage the best!!! Followed by the WCR's, and the SD antiquities. I didn't like the manilishis in the heritage but they sounded fine in the Corsa guitar. Wasn't very impressed with the R9. Is it the guitar??? Or is it the PAF's at fault??? Not all vintage PAF's are killer examples. Again you guys really impress me by putting emphasis and shining the light on where good tone resides. Thanks for another excellent demo. Keep it coming, love it!
The Heritage came with all Schaller hardware including pickups which they don't do anymore on their instruments. Everything except the guitar and tuners has been changed over the years. The bridge on it now is a Faber that looks more like an ABR except it screws into the studs in the body that were from the original Schaller bridge, just like a Nashville TOM. D&P
You guys are the coolest. You would make great neighbors! I dig les pauls but I just cant' get comfortable with them. Why don't you guys do a show on SG's??
Have you guys reviewed the Jim Wagner Crossroads or Darkburst pickups? If so, what episode? I can't find it. You guys have the best show on the internet for those of us dedicated to Gibson electrics!!! Thank you!! Don't retire, not that you are of retirement age like me, but whatever, why wallow in Medicare when you can do reviews?!!!!
Could someone explain the difference between a PAF, a patent sticker and a patent number hum buckler? I have two Lester's and both have patent stickers.
I really enjoy your show! I'd like to know your last names if possible. I don't see other people asking this, so maybe I'm the only one who doesn't know! I assume you are well-known. I've only heard Doug play a lot and I'd like to hear more, you're a great player. Thanks for a great show!
Do you have any pickup reviews where you play chords? The lead playing is cool but the notes go buy so quickly cant hear as well the difference as you can when playing chords where they ring out longer. Your tone is great its right in the classic crunch sound i like but the lead playing is harder for me to make out
I was on a forum not too long ago and the members did not place much credence in the resistance level...so my question is does or does it not make any difference? great show guys!
nmssis We agree with that to a certain point. On old PAF pickup equipped Gibson's we find that there is a predictable change of tone in pickups wound lower than 8K with our fave tones coming from around 7.6K like the '58 gold top "Oscar". Since we're not going to take the pickup apart this is about all we can observe. On new pickups going after that PAF sound we have found that the magnet choice makes more difference than the coil resistance. And the search goes on, all good stuff. Doug and Pat
Doug Fraser Thanks for the reply. So much mystery surrounding something that that's should be a simple scientific matter....wow. On that note, can ohms be measured during the winding? Thanks again.
hi Doug and Pat, Just wanted to ask a quick question about the Wizz pickups. In your opinion, are the Wizz pups worth the $425.00 US? I have a set of Seymour Duncan Antiquities in my les paul presently. are the types of expensive pickups like Wizz and Throbak just snake oil or are they really superior to pups like the Antiquities? Or is it more and question of, just how great of an amp you're playing them through , such as that terrific Vox amp you use to demo them? Thanks from Michael Newell from Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada
What about a best speaker in a deluxe reverb shootout? Man I've tried so many in my silver face that it's bordering insanity. Probably hard to beat a JBL d120f/d131. My favorites so far. A late 50's Altec Lansing 600b reconed with a JBL style paper edge cone 3"vc. and second would be a Celestion G12H30 (WGS reaper). Still not satisfied and looking to try a Jensen neo 100, Eminence Swamp Thang, Weber California paper cone ceramic magnet.
I LOVE your show. Did I say that I love it? That said: were the amp & mic exactly in the same position in each case? There's so drastic differences between samples that I wonder... Also: I'd love to hear a bit more chords & some clean tones. Oh, & IMHO of pickups geek, there's many more to try than WCR, BK or SD. See the PAF clone shoot out done on My Les Paul forum with 16 alternative "boutique" brands, among many other possible choices... Some of these winders claim to sell "the" ultimate PAF clone: your testimonial about their work would be extremely precious for customers. Enough said. Thx a lot, anyway, for your kind, informative and funny videos.
If you are considering the Seymour Duncan antiquities, do yourself a favor and buy the cheaper and slightly less harsh sounding Dimarzio 36th Anniversary PAFs. They're easily the best PAF type pickups if you're on a budget. I'm actually shopping for pickups and the BKP Stormy Monday, the WCR Crossroads among other WCR sets are tempting, although I'm leaning towards Lindy Fralin Pure PAFs or Lollar Imperials (which are not PAF replicas by design but to a damn good job capturing their tone).
pretty interesting was the comparison between the corsa and the heritage, same pickups. i didn't expect such a huge difference. the corsa sounded better. are the pickups non potted?
"Oscar" sounds the best by a mile. After that, the other guitars sound legit. Obviously the 250K pots are a mistake, and the Corsa sounds a bit thinner and more open, but the pickups & guitars don't sound at all like they're lacking or un-Les Paulish in any way.
Guys check my discussion on the Les Paul Forum about the issues you discuss here. Interesting in that I raised the same points in 2002! It's a very interesting "thread".
First of all thank you for what is easily the best pAf shoot out on the toob. One of the more interesting features of ur comparison is the r9 w original 59's vs oscar. It proves to me that much more contributes to the tone of a guitar than the pickups. Oscar sounds amazing and the r9 sounds like poo poo doo doo. And if u swapped out oscars pickups into the r9 it probably wouldn't measure up to any pickup in oscar. I'm not recommending that but would be an interesting comparison. The antiquities measure 8.52 and most closely compare to oscars dynamic range which I think is another interesting factor. Why? Thoughts? A great shoot out would be all the various burst buckers in h150 vs oscar to dispell once and for all the validity of gibson pickups or maybe prove quite simply that they're actually good. Thanks again!
Completely agree with you on the Antiquities coming close to the wide dynamic range of Oscar. After hearing the Antiquities I felt like perhaps I could get all the other pickup(s) sounds by changing the volume and tone controls on the guitar. Which lets face it is what they did in order to achieve those Stormy Monday and Manalishi tones.
Sounds way better with 250ks that first clip...500s are way too bright (with them pickups anyway). The R9 with PAFs also doesnt sound ANYWHERE near as good as the old stuff. Sounded very average. Arh......disappointing discovery :(
For the tone geek in all of us.
Jayne 25:18
Óscar 25:29
R9 w/ pAf’s 25:41
Heritage WCR pu’s 250k pots 25:56
Heritage WCR pu’s 500k pots 26:04
Heritage SD Antiquity 26:11
Heritage BK stormy Mondays 26:25
Heritage Manalishi 26:38
Corsa Manalishi 26:45
LOVE your guys' show SO much!! Keep them coming please!
Thanks for all of the great videos you guys have put together so far. Always sound great and give us a simple and great way to check out what all of this timeless gear is supposed to sound like. After listening to this and all of the other Les Pauls with various pickups thrown in, I have given up on trying to pick my favorites (my Les Paul is my favorite). I swear I choose different favorites everytime I listen to this and the blindfold test. They all have unique characteristics that will appeal to just about anyone and would all hold their own in certain situations. Thanks for the excellent sampling and look forward to future videos.
Great shows! I'm new to discovering this but as a lover of Les Paul's and a complete tone junkie I could watch this stuff all day. I've watched several shows but not all of them and I have to admit that I haven't read every single comment so if this has been brought up I apologize. It seems to me if we are going to focus on PAF's from a specific era as being the "gold standard" so to speak of the tones we are trying to achieve (and I'm totally OK with that) then it seems like in addition to measuring the resistance/impedance of the pickups, we should mention the magnets as well. And also comment that in the original PAF's from the years in question '57 when they were first used to '60 or '61 when they standardized them, there was in fact no standardization of the magnets - or the windings for that matter but I think that has been discussed. Anyone that's heard different grades of Alnico magnets knows there can be quite a difference in sound. That's probably what makes this such a compelling topic, there will always be a Mojo factor to any of these old guitars, but the proof is in the playing, and that's why your show is such a pleasure to watch.
You guys are great! I had the pleasure of playing at 1958 Les Paul Standard at Gruhns in Nashville about two months back... The PAF's in it were amazing.
13:18 that was my old username glad I could help you guys! I have a couple guitar covers with my Heritage on my channel, these days it has Bare Knuckle PG Blues PAFs and 550k pots 👍 miss the show, hope y'all are doing well 🙏
Great stuff guys, I'm really impressed and a fan of your show from now on!
i like the fact you guys are into the tech aspect of the pickups you play and review. too many people have no clue what they're using. for the longest time all you could find out about a pickup was its dc resistance and number of turns. now you can find out not only that but the inductance of a coil, the direction of the turns, the formula of magnet( ceramic, A2,A3,A4,A5, wax potted or resin encapsulated). as far as potting is concerned the only real reason I think to pot a coil is to solidify it so it wont be microphonic. that being said some of my favorite old guitars had microphonic pickups. if you know how to control feedback you might be able to enjoy them
There was something rather charming about the 250k/WCR combo.
Wak Job
Yeah the compressed sound made it sound like Oscar, 350k pots and it would probably sound even closer!
Greetings from the UK gents. Great fun and informative as ever.
“Is that what you do on yours?” 🤣. Classic! 👍
Here's a related idea: how do you optimize your pickup height? Maybe you guys could show us how it's done best.
That is one nice idea!
Please guys: Show us how to adjust our Pickups please!
Greetings
PlayerX ThroBak dude has a good vid on that!
Manalishi bridge pickups with a2 mags in place of the degassed a5 makes the guitar sound even more vintage toned.
Thanks for your excellent vids.
Thanks so much for doing these accurate comparisons
Ps. After seeing your videos on Sanford, I did get in touch and am awaiting their 1812 bridge to record.
Huzzah.
That ´58 Gold Top has got to be the best sounding Les Paul I have ever heard. Just amazing!
I like 58 as well... Best sounding of the bunch.
Hellya!! Put them boys in their place! Lov ur show!!
It will definitely be interesting to hear what component (or components) make the difference between the vintage 18watt
Marshall and the new version of it. The caps in the tone stack can make a difference and although these can't be swapped out,
the speaker and tubes can be.
My observations. The R59 sounded like Joe Walsh on "Life in the Fast Lane" to me. The Corsa with Manalishi pickups was kind of the middle ground of all of them. The 60 was my least favorite. The WCR's in the Heritage was almost indistinguishable from the SD Antiquiquities in the same guitar, both good. The Bare Knuckles had a weird, nasally thing going on. Nothing really sounded like the gold top. I like the tones with a little more bite.
For me the most important thing I took from this is the difference between the '58 and '60 Les Pauls soundwise. Oscar just leaps out at you which shows, imo, that there was no PAF sound, you got whatever the wind/magnet was that particular day. The other biggie was the changing of pots in the Heritage from 250k to 500k, like night and day.
You two were the best on here at this type of stuff, imo, genuinely informative with passion and humour.
Guys, love your videos and you are absolutely correct about the sound quality on our end; however, garbage in, garbage out and at only 480p resolution, it would take a miracle on our end for us to get HD sound. I look forward to the progression to HD, above 720, that for those of us with killer audio can hear the most nuances possible. Keep trucking!
hi Doug and Pat, you probably know this already, but you can take a reading my plugging a lead in and measuring a cross the poles. really enjoy your dr humour. Cheers, Mark.
Glad you caught the pots. I have an H-150 and that one sounded dead in the first video. There's no point in measuring if all you're measuring is DC resistance. Check inductance, resonance peak, wire gauge,etc., and there's a little validity. You guys have way more experience with the classics than me but I do know this stuff... Thanks for all the well done videos.
The older guitars sound way more open
Even with the PAFs the R9 has more compression and not as open or as good
God the 58 is unbelievable 🙏
Love the channel
that bare knuckle pick up sounds great :) i gotta get me one of those
The 58' just buries the rest. The chirp, the output, the tone. case closed.
The Bareknucles sounded AWESOME with your Heritage
I just got a left handed Corsa LCPG that Larry built for me. Picked out the top from a slab of maple. I love this guitar. Tone and volume controls give a wide range of tones. Mine is wired 50s style with neck pu out of phase. With volumes matched the out of phase middle positions nails the Peter Green sound. This guitar is not a one trick pony. Out of phase sound goes away with changing the volume. Has all aged nickle hardware and grovers. Beautiful satin finish. When you consider it was hand built how I wanted it with great vintage style pickups for $2400....enough said. Great video. I liked the Manalishis in both guitars. I must say the Antiquities sounded great too.
All the configurations sounded fantastic. To Me, the Heritage with the 500K pots stood out and cut more than the others.
I've got a couple sets of WCR/Jim Wagner pickups as well as a set of Bare Knuckle pups and they are all great sounding. I have a set of Crossroads in my 335, a set of Fillmores in my 2013 Les Paul traditional, and a set of Bare Knuckle The Mule pups in my 2004 Les Paul. You can't go wrong with any of these. I'm not a '59 or PAF aficionado, but they are a vast improvement over the stock classic 57 pups IMO. of course, my '64 Super Reverb on about 8 doesn't hurt either.
I like the '57 Classics a lot actually but like so many modern PAF re-creations, they're a bit hotter and better if you're trying to get an open sound while driving the amp.
I'm looking at PAF style pickups for my '81 LP Custom as the bridge went microphonic. Leaning towards Lollar Imperials but also considering Fralin Pure PAFs, WCF Crossroads or BKP Mules or Stormy Mondays. I also own a '68 Super Reverb, silverface but it's an early '68 model before they changed the circuit.
I liked the sound of the Crossroads with the 250k pots. I found them too bright with the 500k pots (perhaps because of the alnico 5 magnets?) Keep up the great work guys. Love your channel.
I just tried listening again, this time through better headphones. I think I would have to lower the treble setting on your amp, but the 500k pots are less "muddy". Thanks again.
+Simon Warner I prefer the 250k pots - I like a darker tone and find they offer this and greater girth, rather than the high presence offered by the 500k variants that also appear to sound a little thinner.....decisions, decisions...
watching the show from near Falmouth, uk. haha thnks for the laugh
Thanks D&P for another great effort! To all: I think the fairest eval is from 26:03 to 26:45, all the Heritage, diff p/u's. They all sound very similiar to my ear since it's the same guitar. Actually, I think the WCR & Antiquities sound very close to each other. The other two p/u's sound a little different, but alot of that almost seems like it could be handled by EQ'ing. The other thing I was struck by is 'presence' of each guitar/electronics. Oscar is really present, while the 60 seems a bit... distant. The other examples showed varying degrees of being present.
That high output pickup fit that Manalishi really well. It sounded harsher in the clown burst.
I listened with headphones and the 1960 Standard and Oscar both have the great clarity and bite on the top end BUT the note doesn't have this "falling apart" quality that most of the other guitar/pickup combinations had. It almost sounds like mild distortion but it seems like the top end almost "splinters" on the other pickups. I realize that's the sound I have been trying to get rid off. The smooth, intact top end bite of Oscar is what I prefer. None of the other pickups had that. I also don't know how much the actual guitar is attributing to that quality.
Am I the only one that thinks the Antiquity pickups sounded good? They seemed to have the most "open sounding" PAF tone to them in the mix. The rest of them, boutique made pickups, all seemed to have a different "signature" tone push. Which is great to have options. But for me the Original boutique pickup maker (which is also the cheapest model of the bunch) is a great option. All depends on what your ear hears and what you want at the end of the day though.
no, you are not the only one. i also think the antiquity sounded very good.
I LUUUVEED the Antiquities!
Agreed I was surprised but think they sounded the best here
I liked the antiquities as well. However they sound best here when played through the vox; if you go to the Symour Duncan website and listen to their sound samples, they're played through Marshall amps which sounds like putting a blanket over the sound.
Joshbw3 agree the antiquity sounded great as did the wcr with the right pots
Best note played in this video
24:39
Love these vids. Hi from UK it's pronounced Falmuth well that's the way I say it.
Thought the R9 with PAFs sounded the worst out of the whole bunch. The Heritage with either the Crossroads, Bare Knuckles and Manalishi's sounded quite good. The Corsa with Manalishi's was superb! Would love to hear the middle position with matched sets of these pickups. Great shootout!
Can't wait for the 18w revisited episode!
The bare knuckle (stormy monday) sounds bluesy. the manalishi sounds good too..but the R9 with the PAFs has to be the cats meow...it's got the "ballz". BTW..to my old ears, the 500k pots give the tone more presence.
Great playing on the pickup comparo , Doug.
you guys are awesome...I am going to enjoy my steak & cabernet while I watch this, thx for putting this stuff up!!
ps that green cardigan rocks. kind of an irish/navajo thing going on
I hope some other ppl send you some pickups to test, love your reviews!
( edited because I was drunk when I originally posted :D )
Wow! That was a guitar nut's dream come true!
To the comments:
I put on my Sony's MDR-7506 monitors to listen to this!
Considering "Oscar" as my point of reference, I liked best the Heritage with the 500K pots with both the Antiquities and the WCR''s. I couldn't really hear any difference between these two and they were my favorite of the bunch;
I think the R9 with the real '59 PAFs sounded somewhat inbetween the Antiquities/WCR'S and Oscar, but not as nice as those;
The H150 with the "Stormy Monday's" sounded more scooped and reminded me of Randy Road's tone on Ozzy's "Blizzard of Ozz";
H150 with the Manalishis' sounded hi-fi-like, quieter, tighter, sharper mids;
Corso with Manalishis' was the one I least liked. Thinner sound all around and fuzzy top end.
Thank you very much for demonstrating the HUGE difference changing the pots made on that Heritage. Now on to do the same on my own CM-150!
Cheers!
Hey you guys not only sound like but actually look like a set of good ol' PAFs!
That r9 with the 59s sounds pretty farkin good 24:00 ish but they all sound like Doug with a slight sound of the ruffle of Pats swetter
In the Heritage, I really dug the WCR's (500k pots) and the Antiquities. They sounded very similar actually. But the Bare Knuckles Stormy Mondays had all that, plus definitely ballsier.
Forgetting the accuracy to vintage for a moment, and just considering what sounded "good", both the 60 and the R9 disappoint. Especially the ice pick tones from the R9. The Corsa sounded good, and the Bare Knuckle pups sound good, too. I could use them in context today, no problem.
Yup. Every pickup sounds *exactly* like.. a Vox AC10 SRT amplifier. :)
Seriously though is it just me or is there a hair (a few milliseconds) of latency between attack and amp with vintage PAF's? Coming from P90's I found that to be a very noticeable thing on the vintage Gibsons I've strummed. Is this a thing or just in my head? :)
I can relate to your initial complaint. I'm not an expert on old Paul's since I've never owned one, but I have had the pleasure of playing a couple dozen of them. I had a guy at a store tell me I couldn't play a 57 reissue goldtop because it was too nice. And it was an exact replica of a 57. Well, I replied that I had played an original the week before and that he not only didn't know what he was talking about but that I would take my business elsewhere. Not gonna sell a guitar no one can play. Especially if you give them false information.
Oscar makes the R9 sound silly. To me, at least. Great show as always.
wonder how the wcr's would have compared if just volime pots were reduced to 250k, while tone pots stay at 500k.That may be nicest pot configuration to slightly lower curve, while retaining more openness.. Just wondering.
oscar sounds great. heritage sounds great with all the pick ups mainly seymours. manilisha or whatever sounds good. 2001 gib w/ 59 PAFs too.
That gold top sings like a dream!
Hey you think the wcr with 350k pot’s would mimic Oscar even closer on the H150? It is the closest I’ve heard! Oscar has the thumpy compressed middy tone and the crossroads with the 250k pot was really the only one that got that close ever! Oscar was louder hence combo pots or 350k’s. Interesting!
Nothing sounds like the real thing baby!!!!
2001 with '59 pafs tip you off to how many variables there are that make the '58 sound as amazing as it does. You'll never capture Oscar's sound by simply changing pickups. With that said, this series is an awesome resource.
My mistake, the Mojo pickups bucker is called a 'Vintage PAF'
What happened to neck and middle tones???? I think the stormy monday pickups complemented the heritage the best!!! Followed by the WCR's, and the SD antiquities. I didn't like the manilishis in the heritage but they sounded fine in the Corsa guitar. Wasn't very impressed with the R9. Is it the guitar??? Or is it the PAF's at fault??? Not all vintage PAF's are killer examples. Again you guys really impress me by putting emphasis and shining the light on where good tone resides. Thanks for another excellent demo. Keep it coming, love it!
very interesting show I love it
Did the heritage have a Nashville style bridge???
The Heritage came with all Schaller hardware including pickups which they don't do anymore on their instruments. Everything except the guitar and tuners has been changed over the years. The bridge on it now is a Faber that looks more like an ABR except it screws into the studs in the body that were from the original Schaller bridge, just like a Nashville TOM. D&P
Can you please compare Oscar sound clip against the Bareknucles sound clip back and forth
Oscar is king, the R9 w/ them there PAF's is pretty good also the Barenuckles I thought sounded pretty close . Imho
You guys are the coolest. You would make great neighbors! I dig les pauls but I just cant' get comfortable with them. Why don't you guys do a show on SG's??
Have you guys reviewed the Jim Wagner Crossroads or Darkburst pickups? If so, what episode? I can't find it. You guys have the best show on the internet for those of us dedicated to Gibson electrics!!! Thank you!! Don't retire, not that you are of retirement age like me, but whatever, why wallow in Medicare when you can do reviews?!!!!
Could someone explain the difference between a PAF, a patent sticker and a patent number hum buckler? I have two Lester's and both have patent stickers.
I really enjoy your show! I'd like to know your last names if possible. I don't see other people asking this, so maybe I'm the only one who doesn't know! I assume you are well-known. I've only heard Doug play a lot and I'd like to hear more, you're a great player. Thanks for a great show!
The wcr with 500k sounded buzzy. The 250k was more natural and pleasing to these ears.
Do you have any pickup reviews where you play chords? The lead playing is cool but the notes go buy so quickly cant hear as well the difference as you can when playing chords where they ring out longer. Your tone is great its right in the classic crunch sound i like but the lead playing is harder for me to make out
what do you think about the sheptone pickups
I was on a forum not too long ago and the members did not place much credence in the resistance level...so my question is does or does it not make any difference?
great show guys!
nmssis We agree with that to a certain point. On old PAF pickup equipped Gibson's we find that there is a predictable change of tone in pickups wound lower than 8K with our fave tones coming from around 7.6K like the '58 gold top "Oscar". Since we're not going to take the pickup apart this is about all we can observe. On new pickups going after that PAF sound we have found that the magnet choice makes more difference than the coil resistance. And the search goes on, all good stuff. Doug and Pat
Doug Fraser
Thanks for the reply. So much mystery surrounding something that that's should be a simple scientific matter....wow.
On that note, can ohms be measured during the winding?
Thanks again.
hi Doug and Pat, Just wanted to ask a quick question about the Wizz pickups. In your opinion, are the Wizz pups worth the $425.00 US? I have a set of Seymour Duncan Antiquities in my les paul presently. are the types of expensive pickups like Wizz and Throbak just snake oil or are they really superior to pups like the Antiquities? Or is it more and question of, just how great of an amp you're playing them through , such as that terrific Vox amp you use to demo them? Thanks from Michael Newell from Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada
What about a best speaker in a deluxe reverb shootout? Man I've tried so many in my silver face that it's bordering insanity. Probably hard to beat a JBL d120f/d131. My favorites so far. A late 50's Altec Lansing 600b reconed with a JBL style paper edge cone 3"vc. and second would be a Celestion G12H30 (WGS reaper). Still not satisfied and looking to try a Jensen neo 100, Eminence Swamp Thang, Weber California paper cone ceramic magnet.
I LOVE your show. Did I say that I love it?
That said: were the amp & mic exactly in the same position in each case? There's so drastic differences between samples that I wonder...
Also: I'd love to hear a bit more chords & some clean tones.
Oh, & IMHO of pickups geek, there's many more to try than WCR, BK or SD. See the PAF clone shoot out done on My Les Paul forum with 16 alternative "boutique" brands, among many other possible choices... Some of these winders claim to sell "the" ultimate PAF clone: your testimonial about their work would be extremely precious for customers.
Enough said. Thx a lot, anyway, for your kind, informative and funny videos.
you guys gotta get the wizz paf pickups. they're insane.
i would like to see some lindy fralin pure PAF's pick ups.. iv heard good things .. thanks guys !!
If you are considering the Seymour Duncan antiquities, do yourself a favor and buy the cheaper and slightly less harsh sounding Dimarzio 36th Anniversary PAFs. They're easily the best PAF type pickups if you're on a budget.
I'm actually shopping for pickups and the BKP Stormy Monday, the WCR Crossroads among other WCR sets are tempting, although I'm leaning towards Lindy Fralin Pure PAFs or Lollar Imperials (which are not PAF replicas by design but to a damn good job capturing their tone).
Oscar was #1 for me :)
Great playing on Oscar!!!
1994 Heritage w/500k pot and WCR Crossroads #1 to my ears.
Fun show guys!
Question, is over wrapping a tailpiece make the guitar play better? I noticed most of your Les Paul's are strung up that way.
What are the readings on Oscar and Jayne??
great show. I think you needed to at least try the manalishis in middle position as they are made to sound like Peter Green's in that position.
maybe i'm the only one, but i liked the 250k pots a lot more.
I WANT OSCAR!!
What a great show!
The Gold Top and the Heritage w/ the SD Antiquity PUs sounded very similar to each other.
pretty interesting was the comparison between the corsa and the heritage, same pickups. i didn't expect such a huge difference. the corsa sounded better. are the pickups non potted?
They are indeed non-potted.
"send it to us" 😂😂😂
"Oscar" sounds the best by a mile. After that, the other guitars sound legit. Obviously the 250K pots are a mistake, and the Corsa sounds a bit thinner and more open, but the pickups & guitars don't sound at all like they're lacking or un-Les Paulish in any way.
OSCAR!!! The undefeated world champ!! If Oscar is not seeing anyone I would like to date him and possibly marry him. Could you tell him to call me?
They're really snappy dressers too!
the R9 with the PAF's sounded so sexy.
that and the gold top were my 2 favorites honestly
Ya should name the ‘60 ‘burst “Jayne”!lol .....sorry, I had to.
Sometimes, I think you gotta harden your heart to this stuff.
Guys check my discussion on the Les Paul Forum about the issues you discuss here. Interesting in that I raised the same points in 2002! It's a very interesting "thread".
That 58 is the best sounding les paul I have ever heard!!! wowwwww. It blows all the others away. What is the reading on that bridge pup? 7.75kohm?
First of all thank you for what is easily the best pAf shoot out on the toob. One of the more interesting features of ur comparison is the r9 w original 59's vs oscar. It proves to me that much more contributes to the tone of a guitar than the pickups. Oscar sounds amazing and the r9 sounds like poo poo doo doo. And if u swapped out oscars pickups into the r9 it probably wouldn't measure up to any pickup in oscar. I'm not recommending that but would be an interesting comparison. The antiquities measure 8.52 and most closely compare to oscars dynamic range which I think is another interesting factor. Why? Thoughts? A great shoot out would be all the various burst buckers in h150 vs oscar to dispell once and for all the validity of gibson pickups or maybe prove quite simply that they're actually good. Thanks again!
Completely agree with you on the Antiquities coming close to the wide dynamic range of Oscar. After hearing the Antiquities I felt like perhaps I could get all the other pickup(s) sounds by changing the volume and tone controls on the guitar. Which lets face it is what they did in order to achieve those Stormy Monday and Manalishi tones.
Sounds way better with 250ks that first clip...500s are way too bright (with them pickups anyway). The R9 with PAFs also doesnt sound ANYWHERE near as good as the old stuff. Sounded very average. Arh......disappointing discovery :(
I like them Bare Knuckles...very creamy and chewey...