I had this with my mother for years. Dear God it was a constant source of argument since she lived with me.she would verbally accuse me of being all manner of evil. At 81 she went in to nursing home care. The freedom I felt was unbelievable. Tragic waste .
Thank you! My husband has this and it's highly annoying. I can throw nothing away unless it's in his absence. He hoards things he buys in charity shops, electronic items that are not working, plastic containers and glass jars. Clutters everywhere. 🙈 I had to move out of his room because of all the trash.
Same here. We met a friend for lunch and went to a charity thrift store after as I had items to donate. There were some very discolored frying pans that really should have been thrown out. My husband pitched a fit and said he was going to use those pans for camping which never happens. My friend said she thought I was exaggerating when I said he was a hoarder and he was being ridiculous It is always an argument and you never get any thanks for cleaning out clutter.
I have watched several episodes of hoarders and this is a very sad disorder. I felt that the show was exploiting these poor people. But your analysis Dr Grande is much appreciated. I've always found this topic to be interesting so thanks for the breakdown!❤
As a hoarder, I am always envious of those people on the show. I would love to get all that free help! It is very, very hard to change alone. But help is very expensive.
Dear Dr. Grande: but is it hoarding if I just don't go through my stuff because I'm too busy watching scientifically informed insider looks at mental health topics online?
If you ever want to do a video about the trauma and other psychological implications that entail from having and living with a parent who had hoarding disorder then I'd love to share my own experience with you! My childhood was fairly messed up but I believe a huge part of feeling like an outsider, embarrassment and even shame from a young age was due to the state of the home I grew up in, and ultimately not having any control over it. Please feel free to get in touch if you'd like to discuss anything around this subject :)
My grandmother had some hoarding tendencies, her house was fairly clean but she would always hold on to half-eaten food, fast food containers and cups, napkins, plastic forks and stuff like that. Her basement was filled with old stuff that had accumulated through the years. Now even in her retirement home she holds all the food she doesn't eat and tries to give it to us when we visit. I always thought that she was like this because of her growing up in the Great Depression (she was born in 1930). I wonder if childhood poverty has anything to do with Hoarding Disorder? I know that trauma can cause hoarding like a coping mechanism, when they lose someone or feel empty they start to hold on to physical items to fill that void. Interesting video as always Dr. Grande!
Dr Grande you are always point on.I love your analysis and always seem to agree. My husband of 30 years who happens to be a garbage truck driver is constantly bringing things home with the statement that he is going to repair said item and make money when he sells refirbished/repaired item and make us money which by the way never happens. I threw a pineapple lamp away 3 times and he dug it back out of our trash 3 times.maddening!!! We currently have a collection of headless Elvis decantures that he swears he is going to rehab. He lost his mother at a very early age and i think he connect with items in an effort to connect with her in some way. Thoughts?
I had to clean up someone's desk at work who may have had hoarding disorder. I found a sandwich in an envelope, inside a bigger envelope, inside an even bigger envelope etc etc 6 envelopes up allong with years of newspapers and real estate brochures. It was amusing when I was younger but now it's heartbreaking to think about.
I found something similar when I moved into a new place. Left over food dishes up on the closet shelf. Who stores food or used dishes in the cloths closet? I think they had a drug problem. Needless to say; I felt much better after the place got a thorough deep cleaning.
@@kathryncarter6143 Not too familiar with 'meth' but I've seen all of Breaking Bad and I dont think you're wrong to assume that it was some sort of drug!
After having been homeless I had a very hard time throwing anything away. After losing so much that I valued it became hard to tell what had value. When my income stabilized and I became able to purchase what I needed, it seemed easier to throw away items of marginal value, like old clothes or plastic containers. But for a while there, it was very hard to discard anything at all. My mother, who had been an excellent housekeeper for most of her life, began hoarding after her partner died -- they'd been moderate hoarders together but she no longer had the income to maintain outbuildings and her hoard took over her new, smaller house. My brother also hoarded and when he moved in with her, he hoarded vehicles. By the time she died and the house was foreclosed upon, it had been destroyed...
I believe the factors that Dr. Grande dismissed regarding poverty are , in fact, relevant. I believe that I am a minor hoarder. The main level of this house as about an average amount of stuff but the basement is filled to capacity with stuff. I do not hoard old food, pets, magazines or plastic containers and am not a collector. Poverty can affect your amount of free time, your energy and your perceived ability to be able to just throw out or donate things. I grew up in an affluent family but of people who had been poor and they were mild hoarders, never throwing anything useful out, always selling or donating good stuff. I did learn from them always to donate good things because "someone could use them." Once I started to live on a fixed income because I am a widow who cares for an adult child with special needs my hoarding increased, not from trauma but from low income. At one time my garage and basement stored 4 washers and dryers and one refrigerator that relatives gave me when they moved and couldn't take theirs but in the course of 10 years I had to use everyone of them. This would have saved me at least $2000+ in replacement costs, more than a month of income. I wish I had more now because I just replaced a washing machine for $600. When you don't have money you look at stuff differently. When my sister in law offered me a set of china that she got from a neighbor I tried to give it away but no family wanted it. I went to check it's value. It is worth a few hundred dollars so down in the basement it will go after I take a picture for an ebay listing. I could have donated it but I need the money. I hoard all of my old clothes that are a size smaller. I have lost weight before and needed that size again if only for a year or two. People say just buy some new clothes when you loose weight. Clothes are expensive and I have neither the time nor the money to shop for a new wardrobe. My current wardrobe is probably a fraction of most people's. I hoard the old push mower because who knows when the riding mower will break down again and I may not have a couple thousand to replace it and might need to mow an 1 1/3 acres for a few years again with a push mower. If someone offered me a second working push mower I might even accept that in case the old push mower goes and I have to replace it that one for a couple of hundred. Low income can be a factor for more reasons than just trauma. I don't believe that I have suffered from much trauma, just lack of time and money. If you don't have the cash how do your afford to hire the organizational coach or the therapist or even the take out food that might save you an hour or so of cooking and clean up that might gain you some time for dealing with your hoard?
I am very similar to you in everything you say but I do have enough money and am lucky enough to not be interested in hoarding large or costly things (except older furniture that I get from throw outs!)
Our house is so full, cluttered, and uncleaned, that I was relieved to see this and know that I'm not a hoarder. My husband is descended from them... But is aware of that and works to avoid it. Income can certainly be a factor. There are absolutely hoarders who are very wealthy, and it's probably easy to fall into if you can afford to keep it from being too obvious and too much of a problem. But people from much, much lower incomes are susceptible because yeah, the stuff could be useful. You might need that thing, or someone else might. It's really hard to just pitch things someone could use, if you've been in the position of needing things, or if you've benefited from other people going, "I don't need this, can you use it?" And you're grateful and want to be able to do that for someone else.
There's a great program and/or podcasts called "It's All Clutter" run by Jes Marcy. The Bootcamps will start again in January and you choose how much you want to pay. It's a great group of people and completely non-judgmental rather very supportive. I'll be doing my 4th Bootcamp in January and hope to see you there.
@@territimmerman140 That sounds very interesting. I will check that out! As far the shows that are on TV I prefer the British one with the doctor, Stelios, even though he is always speaking about trauma to A&E's hoarders because not every hoarder they feature is the most extreme to be found and because they go about it a bit more gradually and more positively. They help the hoarders discover their own solutions and encourage them. Most of them truly want to improve their living conditions. A&E is often looking just for shock value.
No comment on the fear of death? I've watched a few of these hoarders shows out of morbid curiousity and they routinely made a note that the subject of the episode started hoarding after the loss of a loved one. I pair that with my own self-knowledge and I reckon this must be a consistent factor. Not that bereavement causes hoarding, but that it's a trigger for someone predisposed to it
I have had some hoarder patients. These have been highly intelligent people who have been somewhat successful in external lives. They often appear much younger than their chronological age.
@@mgparis Because they do not worry about anything. They do not worry about bills, unsanitary living conditions, health or if they are going to be put out.
@@saran.4001 That's a good theory. I think that's definitely true for some of them, but not all are in denial, and seem to feel deep shame, anxiety and guilt about their condition, for instance how it affects their loved ones....
@@mgparis Not the ones i have known, personally, and not the ones on the Hoarder's show. They are only anxious about getting their stuff taken and put junk and trash above their loved ones.
"Some of the characteristics associated with hoarding disorder: Perfectionism, avoidance, being disorganized, procrastinating, being highly distractible and indecisive." I've been doing a lot of personal research about ADHD, and apparently there is a strong link between hoarding behavior and ADHD. Which seems to match well with the characteristics listed by Dr. Grande. Some of the characteristics seem to match someone with executive functioning problems; like those seen in people ADHD.
I lost my husband and my father a year ago. They died within a week of each other. Both were abusive. Ever since then, I have become a hoarder and I am seeing a therapist. There's no improvement yet, but I realize that it will take time. I was not permitted to cry as a child (I'm female) nor as an adult. I didn't cry at any of my family's funerals, nor have I ever cried at any funeral. My father was hard on me because I was supposed to be a boy; so, he taught me how to be a man. I am not transgender. I like my femininity. I enjoy when men are chivalrous. But I don't, can't, cry. I suppose that I hoard because I can't cry or grieve. It concerns me that a lot of parents are actively teaching their children about gender fluidity. Believe me: if a child is raised in a gender opposite or gender fluid this causes a great deal of confusion and angst in the child.
@@rhobot75 Thank you so much! I actually bought her book last month. I have yet to get started, though. My therapist said that it will take time for me to just start grieving and then getting on with my life. I wish you the best in life for taking out your time to reply to my comment, giving me such helpful advice. ❤
@@2manybooks2littletime25 You are welcome! .. I try to take comfort in that notion that grieving is a little like that picture on the wall you can't stop staring at, can't touch it, and then one day you can walk by without looking but you know it's there, and another you can without a lot of thought move it soemwhere fresh, and another day, you might find, I might find, it's okay to put it into another frame or give it away to a close relation or even store it away for a few months with other treasured mementos. It will happen in time. One day at a time is the way to go.
I know people who are hoarders, it's stressful to deal with....I want to start cleaning and throwing things out but it probably wouldn't be a good idea on my part..because sometimes they have tempers...good video Dr.
It’s a bad idea not because they have tempers - it’s a bad idea because it’s unhelpful. Like addicts, THEY have to want help, and they have to be the ones to take the concrete steps. That’s why the therapists on Hoarders protect the hoarder’s sense of agency by letting them veto throwaways, and gives the hoarder the emotional and cognitive decision-making tools to select throwaway items.
@Liza Tanzawa I toss things away slowly when my husband is out. I've even resorted to burning the clutter because IF he finds out I've thrown out his stuff he becomes enraged. I cannot leave a trace! I had to move out of his room it's so full of trash.
It's not a good idea at all they will make your life miserable. You see it is trash but they have an emotional bond to a lot of things for whatever reason, my sister is a hoarder., she's currently in therapy bet her Tendencies still are there
You are right. My family don’t throw anything out that I could know about or see because they know I will raid the bin to see if there is anything useful in it. I don’t see a problem with this but apparently everyone else does!!! I compromise with my family and we are all happy... I currently have switched to collecting plants that people throw out or grow wild that are not native. I still like boxes and glass jars but raiding garbage throw outs really makes my day!
i used to know someone with ocd + hoarding behaviors... they really took up a huge amount of her brain power, they were always going in the back of her mind.... i hope she's gotten more help now. i understand it a bit more now... thank you for the insight
Another really thoughtful and interesting video. Both my parents have hoarding tendencies, especially my father; there tends to be hoarding on his side of the family. I'm autistic but fall into your definition of a collector. Perhaps in opposition to my parents, I like a Zen like atmosphere with very little clutter; it feels good to throw things out or give things away.
Do you ever think that at a certain point, all these mental problems are not different disorders, but are actually just different symptoms and manifestations of the same problem?
I was diagnosed with ocd and I used to hoard. I had every piece of paper I had ever gotten in my basement and it took up many boxes in there and my family made me throw it all away. I even had boxes of unopened mail from years before and any card or flyer or newspaper or school paper that I had ever held. I went through horrible trauma throwing it all away but I went on meds and now I don't even have symptoms (years later).
I would like to see a comparison of hoarders (as a pejorative epithet) and preppers. For example, during the early months of the pandemic, many people went out and bought as much toilet paper and hand sanitizer as would fit in their car, while another group of people already had an abundance of those items (and more) stored away, which they had purchased over time when those items were abundant. Both then the panic buyer and the preper were labeled hoarders. While both types of person were locked down on, the preper generally did not participate in panic buying having purchased their stockpile of supplies over years during times of plenty. I think the general public's disdain for preppers being prepared was unjustified and ludicrous.
I think it was legitimate....people took more than they could use in multiple lifetimes and left many people without. If you concern is they have a mental illness and should not be judged I can get with that. If you think the preppers were correct in the excess I will have to disagree
I did some excessive acquisition of wardrobe items, through online shopping, during my two-year-plus COVID lockdown, to fight the boredom and loneliness (I have high-risk medical factors, so couldn’t go in public places). This stopped when I could resume my normal life, but now I have too many clothes and accessories for my available space as well as credit card debt to deal with. I try not to beat myself up too much for this lapse, it did give me something to look forward to, punctuate my endless days, and give me pleasure when it seemed that an endless life of boredom and isolation stretched out before me. I’m going to be very careful that it doesn’t become a habit again, though. My beloved Mom just died two months ago, and I didn’t react to the grief this way, so I think this bad retail therapy habit was nipped in the bud.
Thanks for the video Dr. G. My mom and dad are and were hoarders. I find myself throwing away so much I think its cuz of the way I grew up. My mom kept magazines and newspapers boxes , made our house look very dirty. Besides how my mom and dad treated me I never would bring friends over because of the mess and the dynamics of behavoir.
ALL I KNOW IS IM AS SICK AS THE DAY IS LONG AND I GOT A REAL MESS HEAR AND I SURE LIKE LISTENING TO YOU YOUR ONE HECK OF A DOCTOR I FEEL BETTER ALREADY I WISH I WOULD HAVE BUMPED INTO YOU 40 YEARS AGO STAY COOL
I definitely have hoarding tendencies. Back when I was more financially stable, it manifested as an addiction to shopping. Now that I struggle more financially, I save things like cardboard, paper, and even lint from the dryer in case I need emergency kindling one day... Some people humor me... Of course, others - don't. And Epstein didn't kill himself.
Decades ago my aunt helped an older woman in her church who’s house was piled up to the ceiling with newspapers and other stuff. They filled multiple huge dumpsters with the clutter. I have had too much lawn equipment, parts, engines and a messy bedroom. In December 2012 my Doctor said Boyd I think that you have Lyme disease, let’s start testing. My rented pole barn storage was so full at times that I couldn’t step on the floor anywhere. I have since been getting rid of a lot of stuff and projects. I feel good getting rid of things and being able to see more of the floor.
Dr. Grande, could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE analyze the bizarre, unique, terrifying, viscous, sexually confusing, and mind boggling case of: Col. Russell Williams, Commander of Canadian Air Force Base, Trenton, Ontario, Canada. I’m an American woman married to a Canadian man, and we lived near Col. Williams at his part time home in Tweed, Ontario. And I new one of his terrorized victims. It’s several years, but she is still traumatized and will not live alone or be at home alone. I would greatly appreciate your valued opinion on this unforgettable case. UA-cam has dozens of videos on the matter. Thank You
Great video and discussion on a very difficult topic, Dr. Grande! I have "collector" tendencies which I have to keep in check. I came from a family where an old, unused item was "going to be worth something someday!" So a lot of things were stored for that "someday," which never came. I'm currently watching a "60-something" friend sink deeper into hoarding -- several years' worth of "collecting" has filled multiple spaces on their property and is now encroaching dangerously on their living space. It's really heartbreaking, but there's nothing I can do as they've become "stuff blind" and don't even realize the dangers of the now cramped spaces. Breaks my heart!
Poverty and poor self-care are factors in this disordered (pun intended) behavior. A person who tends to believe they don't deserve to live in a clean house/apt. is likely to have been subjected to early childhood trauma.
That maybe, my sister is a hoarder she is so outgoing so friendly will give you the shirt off her back. I think her stems from being picked on in school and bullied in school. When she got married her husband had major medical problems and she felt very overwhelmed. She is in therapy now I'm so glad cuz she is a great person
Poverty definitely a factor, also bereavement, trauma, I suspect a particular combination of the se. But again, you have to rule out physical probs first.
One thing I've noticed is that hoarders dont seem to be interested in the objects aesthetic value very much though they may think so. They dont arrange things in a way that would show that they are interested in how the items look; they end up in bags, under the bed, in piles.
Do you know what it's like to have your family come to help you clean and the first thing they do is open up garbage bags? I have bipolar disorder with lots of anxiety. I have difficulty sorting and making choices with stuff in my house. At the time, I was taking lithium and 2000 mg depakote. I was really sedated, had my young son make menu choices for me at McDonald's! I managed to work full time. My family was annoyed when I couldn't answer when asked where to put items. If I could have figured that out, I wouldn't have needed help. I was overwhelmed. Still am, a bit. I should have told them that I hid money, forgetting where I stashed it! Maybe they would have valued my belongings instead of regarding stuff as trash.
I am a Plant Hoarder .l have hundreds of houseplants.ln the winter when l bring them all in the house is covered with plants.l am Fascinated by them, and spend all my time taking care of them,changing pots,watering,misting them etc.This is a True Compulsion l have ,as l feel unable to go without purchasing a plant if it is something l don't have and decide that l want.l know this is a mental disorder and l am Unable to stop it. The more l listen to Dr.Grande ,the more mental disorders l am finding that l Have.Good and Bad.
Oh I’ll never forget when it was added to the DSM-V. I was relieved. I saw the differentiation for years and had to bill to the closest match- usually OCD. Anywho, thanks for the psychoed. very important. 🙌🏼
Ive listend to this man several times. And I firmly believe that he is a person that can actully talk on a subject for a solid hour and never say anything that you could possibly ever understand. I believe that he himself would be a good study for a head doctor.
I was looked after by an elderly relative while my parents went to work. I listened to stories about famine and black market and how people set dogs after travelling beggars and when she took me to visit many of the refugees from an area that now belongs to Russia - some who were born shortly before or after WW1 they were often reminiscing those times of hardship. My mum was born after WW2 but the rationing went until her late teens: she never saw an orange until in her twenties! My parents were poor factory workers and my dad was often at home because of his back problem. Everything was saved and reused as far as possible. Plastic bread bags were saved for freezing wild berries or garden products, margarine tubs for things that had liquid, old curtains became a dress for mother, then a skirt for me and then stripes in a rag rug. There would be a bare bone to give flavour to the soup and we would fight over pieces of fat; luncheon meat was a weekend treat. It was the same with clothes: My cousin would get new trousers or a jumper as he grew. When he grew out of it, my brother inherited it, then my other cousin, my other brother and then me. By the time I had them, a pair of jeans had several patches and the original fabric had worn so thin I could see my skin shining through.. We kept literally everything for years... When I was a young adult I became homeless and had to resort to drinking hot water with sugar, or, if I was lucky, oat flakes soaked in water. I wasn't that fond of candy bars but they were cheaper than fruit. Eventually I managed to earn enough money to rent a room but there was always some problem: I had to move an average once a month. In the end I didn't even bother to unpack my boxes... Things got eventually better but I have had to move several times since and even now the the longest I lived anywhere is three years, not because I ever wanted to move. I get anxious for not having at least few tins and other long lasting food and my second bedroom is half full of flattened cardboard boxes, just in case: they cost a lot of money and at present I wouldn't even know where to obtain them. I had termites in my house but by some miracle they never got into that room! I have been getting more and more health issues and I have a constant fear in the back of my mind that I cannot work but that I will lose my home and not have enough to eat: I have never been in the position of saving for retirement. Yet I continue hoarding books I might use for work (but I know I never will) and not getting rid of any of the other ones either. I also have hard time throwing away clothes, like the T-shirt with a stain that I bought 25 years ago... (It's otherwise in a perfect condition, you know, so why waste it?) I'm not saying that my experience made me a hoarder. I'm sure that I have a predisposition to it anyway, but I am sure some of that neurotic behaviour has rubbed on after a 30-year close relationship with someone who is (eventually) a self-confessed hoarder: me hoarding craft things for one day when I have time for it has nothing to do with survival!
My parents were from WW2 and I was brought up not to waste things but they aren’t hoarders, I am. I still maintain I can usually find anything in my house anyone would possible need and I have no guilt or negativity about hoarding. I find it amusing when my kids want to control it. After a few yrs they know they can’t .. I get too emotionally upset if they stop me raiding the bin for things they throw out that were mine.
@@AwfulDog1 I get emotionally attached, too and then get upset if others throw away things I had bought and which I still deem useful. Or when it's books. I guess my love of books is because they were an escape from my parents violent fights, my mother's rejection, loneliness (no other kids) and, well, me and my family being different. They also taught practically everything I needed to know at school until I was 16 - the only homework I had to do was on foreign languages. But a lot of WHAT I hoard is learnt from my parents. It was normal for everyone to know some DIY and have a few tools, but I have not done any renovation or fixing in my house (painting and varnishing and flat packed furniture doesn't count) but I still doodle over tools and read their specifications while telling myself I really haven't got the need or space for a circular saw... My landlord doesn't even want me to put up some kitchen fittings in case I cracking the wall tiles while drilling screw holes!
I used to work in a second hand book store. One time we got a donation from a person who was forced by the city government to get rid of the books in his house because they were stacked all the way to the ceiling. Aside from the books inside his house he also had three shipping containers filled with books. One of these containers was filled with pairs of books that were exatcly identical to one another (two copies of book A, two copies of book B, two copies of book C, etc etc). We had to throw away about 95% of these books because they didn't have any value.
(1 of 2)TG’s videos so often have the aha moment in them for me. I’m really glad I saw this one, glad you do them. Thank you. I recently realized I’ve been doing this for about seven to ten years now (I’ll explain). I can only speak from my own experience (which doesn’t include clinically observational or professional knowledge) but I think it’s a safe bet (if it’s not obvious) people doing this usually have plans for the stuff we gather when we acquire it. Throw that shit away and you’d be throwing away the the plans I was looking forward to. I don’t even know if I am or not anymore but obviously I’m hiding from it because I can’t handle it. I mean, duh I do know how to throw shit away as I take the full bin to the curb every week thank hypothetical you very much. The observation about high conscientiousness/perfectionism gone astray into slovenliness (I forget the canonical antonym he used, and undoubtedly that says something too) is right on. In my own case it’s because I haven’t always been someone who can’t finish a project, or who knows I need to open my mail but got traumatized by something that arrived in it. I’m almost certain hoarding is the sign people don’t realize is a CPTSD locator beacon. Maybe some hoarders even realize it but how do you get the courage to try and recover from something that’s still being inflicted, or something seeing your way out from within which is too horrifying (or maybe frightening)? A high tolerance for disgust was mentioned... well, if I may be so bold as to presume hoarding experiences aren’t all THAT different...This hasn’t been my first choice of lifestyle. To the contrary I’ve become resigned to it in disgust because it’s smarter (or at least more practical) in my best estimation to retreat. Yes there was a pair of traumatizing precipatory events that kicked it off in the late summer and fall of 2012 but then five years later there was another that cemented it and really got it going. I don’t think other people’s experience necessarily follows my own, but I’m aware that for as different as individuals incidentally end up - the fairly concise common composition we share is highly predictive of what we’re gonna do with the experience we live. When people react in ways that appear unpredictable don’t we usually figure out later we’d based our expectation on incomplete or faulty predictors? Stands to reason then that there are unknowns we fail to consider even when evaluating ourselves if we’re in denial or immersion myopia - just as there are when we evaluate others based on missing relevant information or misinformation (deliberate or unintentional). The very filter of self-reporting is SURELY where it ALL goes wrong LOL. Trusting our own or anyone else’s is a foolish trap PRECISELY BECAUSE none of us knows when our own or somebody else’s can’t be trusted. If ever there were an example of intolerance for ambiguity/uncertainty it must surely be attributing credibility to the oxymoron of self-objectivity. Seriously, how stupid are we to do that…yet still we all do. Reminds me of the time when as a little boy I laughed and said “Well yeah Mom but you’re not objective” to which she replied in absolute startled sincerity (which immediately gave way to narcissistic injury) “Well I think I am” (heavily emphasizing the I). That of course was the memorable part so I don’t know if I said “uh” or anything more, but I doubt it. And I also don’t know if her anger was based on realization or just being contradicted/criticized. LMFAO, I mean making my point and then blaming me for it.🙄 I knew she was crazy and I knew I was stuck with her, but I didn’t know any better than to make the best of it longer than I had to. But the reason you can’t get through to a narcissist is absomosdefalutely because they don’t want you to. So perhaps to some degree none of us is ready to be gotten through to when in the throes of any compensatory adaptation to trauma. You can still tell the difference though between a person who means well and is trying their best and someone pretending that their best is thinking their eight or nine year old means them harm, because it really does come down to SHARED willingness to be rational in a given situation. So I’m not saying that to prompt compassion for perpetrators unworthy of forgiveness that’ll only be used against the forgiving until they learn the lesson of that. Someone unwilling to grant you the benefit of the same rational common sense they only try to warp in you for having extended it to them is basically having a woke stroke and can’t be reasoned with- because, as I said, they don’t want to be. The narcissist underestimates what he values in others (resources, abilities, influence, intelligence) on perceived miscalculation because he’s (overblocking the vulnerability of sameness) dismissive of (superior to) them. The codependent overestimates what he values in others (sincerity, integrity, decency, loyalty, honesty) on perceived misinformation because he’s (overpermitting the vulnerability of sameness) NOT dismissive of them. I don’t agree to shit and then show up late or cancel now because I’m a people pleaser, I do it because in addition to being forgetful disinterested and done with the futility of thinking I have any real agency I can’t fucking concentrate and can’t accurately estimate how long wrapping up anything else and putting together anything required and getting myself ready and allowing for traffic might take. I wasn’t one who tended to run late - my father used to set his watch fast just to tell me I was late. Grown ass man doing that shit. And actually doing it to another grown-ass man, come to think of it.
My father was friends with a man who hoarded cats. He apparently only claimed 3 of the cats. However, there was at least 30 feral cats running around his yard. Even though he didn’t claim all the cats, He would feed all them. I remember my mother was asked to feed the cats and she found newborn kittens with eye infections, which she brought home and we cleaned for 2-3 hrs. I was so angry and upset a human would allow these cats to suffer and would have literally died without us caring for them. Btw, he was known for getting blaring drunk in his backyard. He had a tv setup outside where he would watch Fox News for hours and then talk shit on Facebook, along with posting alt-right politics. Sometimes that involved posting dead cats. One summer my father had asked him to tend to the yard weekly while they were out of state. I was at home alone and he had a key to my house. He’d walk in without knocking or announcing himself. At that time I was a studious bright-eyed psych undergrad taking bio psych during the summer. I have a history of abuse from my father’s former best friend. So, him walking into the house was particularly unsettling. I told my father what was going on, he said, “well he’s not going into your room at night is he?” Pretty much told me to initiate the conversation myself to clear my uncomfortably. My dad’s friend walked into the house like he usually did, and I confronted him calmly. He accused me of not hearing his knocks (he was lying) and left angry. I never liked him, think he’s weird, and don’t trust him for shit. Edit: btw, my youngest sister has autism. She’s a collector of the things she loves. Not a hoarder. Love how you talked about this.
That "Cat Man" sounds creepy. You were right to not trust him. I would never have given someone like that a key to my home ~ sounds like your dad was too trusting. I'm glad nothing bad happened to you then!
I am too busy now that I am watching all these videos. In my family I saw some that grew up poor tend to save everything. She might be OCD too. In some TV shows, there were people who were sick or had dementia as well. Great topic. Still so much to catch up❤️🇨🇦 Thank-you
I know a lady who lost access to her grandson due to her daughter suddenly refusing to allow her to see her grandchild again out of the blue. Weird. And the lady slowly started buying everything in sight ... now her home is filled with clothes and shoes and other pieces of junk.
Kelly York Interesting how loss triggers spending, maybe it helps to distract from the pain in the moment, and things provide a fleeting feel good but it’s an unhealthy pattern and slippery slope not to mention difficult to climb out of emotionally and financially. Retail therapy anonymous anyone?
In the store where I work, an elderly gentleman would come in just about every day and buy pots and pans. Some or most were high end brands. A relative discovered it all. Probably hundreds of them. Most were still in our bags and had the price tags on them. I've wondered why just pots and the reasons for the hoarding itself. He was moved to either assisted living or a nursing home. I often wonder how he is doing.
It is very difficult to live with a hoarder. Keeping the house organized and putting things where they should be are impossible tasks. Things just keep getting added- shoes, clothes, unopened boxes of items ordered, empty boxes that should have been discarded months ago, etc. If you want to throw any stuff out, she would insist that she will use the item even though it has been sitting in the same spot for the past year unused.
And a person who seeks the ever-elusive “perfection” may not be able to determine Where Best to “home” the items. Failing to know just where something should go, it just sits in a state of prolonged waiting. Nature vs Nurture? BOTH!! Being uncertain in a world of impermanence, three of the same shirt (two yet in packaging) hedges the issue of What Happens IF I Loose the Item or IF the Item Becomes Torn or Worn-out?? Tom Waites I believe had a song regarding a dream to own a junk yard full of cars, driving a different one each day… A late friend said that they actually shared that sentiment; it made complete sense. He ended up with multiple cars snd motorcycles, though no junk yard. Old Flintstones cartoons, as old Jackie Gleason episodes showed wives Going Shopping or almost compulsively using credit cards (“Charge!!”) as if it were both normal and to be encouraged/discouraged concurrently. No wonder people are confused… This issue is deep and fascinating!! One person’s beer can collection on a porch shelf vs saving a late sister’s wedding dress because someone may buy it just to dismantle the material components.
I find it quite hard to get rid of pretty boxes. I’m always convinced that they will help me organise my sewing room in a pretty way. And they do. But I’m rigorous about policing this behaviour. Tomorrow I have a rubbish bag of collapsed boxes to throw out. I can totally see how this can get out of hand, but watching Extreme Hoarders has been very motivating
Years ago I was an editor at a newspaper. I don't know why but our region seemed to have more than usual cases of animal hoarding. There was a particular woman who collected rabbits. Several times she was busted until a judge finally told her she was not allowed within (and it's been awhile so not sure of measurement) 100 feet of a rabbit. She was caught with more rabbits and when she returned to court they found a rabbit in her purse. Animal advocates had their hands full with every new wave of rescued rabbits. On the other hand, after Easters many people left their "holiday" pets on golf courses. I remember my husband and brother in law talking about avoiding all the different color rabbits running around a course.
BTW, Steketee and Frost's book: *Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding And The Meaning Of Things* is a great read. If anyone's interested. Can't recommend it enough, though I don't think I could stand reading about the cat hoarder again. It broke my heart.
Depression is a factor. For me mainly social anxiety and addiction. I see it now, going back to my high school days. But getting my own place has been a disaster. Terrible in the eyes of someone else, but it doesn’t even bother me. Insomnia I think has something to do with it. I feel exhausted all the time. As I write this, the sense of short gratification not overcoming the anxiety is strong. It’s been almost a year since I’ve had a visitor, which makes it too easy.
I work with hoarders as part of my job and have come across several tenants who struggle with their hoarding. My experience is that it is to do with control...it can be someone who has previously been abused, or an elderly person who has lost their independence or someone who is ill. Hoarding feels that they can control something, even though it eventually becomes unmanageable. It becomes a health and safety problem and a fire hazard. My mother has developed a hoarding problem in the last 15 years...it is to do with her narcissism, aging and illness. If you dare mention the piles of junk stacked high, stand back (if you can find a space) and be prepared for RAGE, denial, victim play and more rage. What amazes me about her, and the people I work with, is where all this stuff comes from and so quickly. In my experience, a lot of it is being obtained on purpose, normally from charity shops (thrift stores in the US). The hoarders are going out and obtaining the items. Almost all of the hoarders I have worked with live alone and everyone I have come across with hoarding disorders try and cover up the problem, deny it or try and pretend they are coping. It takes a lot for them to admit and accept they need help.
Makes me wonder if the 12 step program could help in some instances. 1.Admit I am powerless over hoarding and come to believe that a power greater than myself can restore me to sanity. 2. turn my will and my life over...
I live with a hoarder of clothes and shoes. I got mad once and threw out about 50 pairs of shoes she had not worn in 10 years at least. We have boxes and suitcases full of clothes. I bet most she could not even fit into most of them. We have moved 3 times in the last couple of years and all this junk comes with us. Very distressing to me.
I did volunteer work with a homeless man for a time. He had lost his apartment because he was a hoarder. He was a cool gentle soul but yet another victim of our failings as a society to adequately deal with the psychological disorders behind the homeless crisis.
Dear Dr Grande once again you speak.of a disorder in a language that is understandable to a mere human Thank You have you watched Hoarding program. also Clean Sweep. I wish you could walk.alongside people who have these disorders unfournatly these people are made to feel.ashamed and victimized by those that do not understand this disorder or if they do the people one goal is to stop the disorder not the trauma or reason for it
My mom is a hoarder and my deaf and sight disordered dad had to eat moulded food. I have cut the relationship with my mom and sadly my dad is dead now.
I have a theory on why it mostly happens to people who live alone, it could be that if they had a partner or someone else living in the house, they would not want that person to live in a hoarder house, and subconsciously not hoard.
Both parents are somewhat hoarders but hoard different stuff. And they don't like anothers tendencies. Seems to work like that, they're constantly going on with that. Mom keeps hoarding kitchen stuff, clothing, yarns etc. Father keeps hoarding tools, electronics and other usefull manly things. (Read: ex. car parts and imagine rest) I get a call whenever storm rises.. "You know I heard you need this thing and we have it, you want it?" And that didn't help my own hoarding tendencies at all. 😂 Nowadays after some work with mental health, too much stuff lying around gives me anxiety 😬 and learned to say no to free stuff 😅
I'm autistic and a hoarder. Well I say I'm a hoarder but really I don't like living in clutter. I live with my parents and when I was a kid my dad used to tidy my room, and I hated it when he would throw my stuff away. And since moving, many of my childhood items got thrown away and so I have to stop that happening again. It's this and the fact that I don't really know how to tidy my room properly, and now it's gotten to the point where attempting to tidy my room is a daunting seemingly impossible task that I just don't do it, and the fact I won't let anyone help me, cause a) I don't want my stuff to be thrown away and b) I don't want them to find my more personal or private items. I also have this tendency to over-empathise, with people and animals but even empathising with objects and feeling sorry for them if thrown away (Toy story was one of my favourite movies growing up and probably didn't help with this.) However I have decided that I will try and work on tidying my room little by little, for the first time in years.
just wanted to thank you for the informative videos. An amazing public service you have performed. Had a long term (platonic) business relationship with someone who is probably a narcissist of some kind, the variety unable to trust anyone, and has no visible ethics of any kind. Yet charms you in the beginning with competence and unusual dedication. That’s the one! I wish I could ask a question though: Is there an avoidance / hoarding disorder associated with owners of small businesses that become too distraught, overcome, numb or whatever to properly invoice their customers? A peculiar disease where every further day of delay adds to the shame and dysfunction until it is easier to simply default at a total loss. An eventuality that usually leads to loss of the client relationship as well. Is this a common disorder or is it rare and unusual? And why do I associate being unable to write a bill for work performed with the hoarding compulsion? Perhaps the person suffering is collecting hostages (people waiting) as a response to lack of control? Or feeling abandoned and discarded, or mocked? Or can it just be burnout from one too many design quotations that go nowhere, one too many invoices received an angry response, were ignored, unpaid or refused? To what extent is billing fatigue normal?
I had this together with my mom. And, oh God! People have no clue of how hard it is. I had been fighting this since my 16 and it was hard, it's not as simple as to "toss everything" since we usually have cognitive impairments (due to untreated mental illness) and often mess up in the process. Most things I don't regret but there was things from my childhood I wished I had kept or treated better. "When everything is important, nothing is important" goes the saying and It's hard to know the true value of things to the point you lost important documents, destroy stuff by miss treading and even lost your own health. Even if you know you have a problem, it's basically impossible to make or follow a plan to get out and things just snowball... Treading bipolar was life changing since I finally can think properly but hoarding is one of those things I wish only to maintain at bay.... :/ And I had lost patience with my mom, but if you live with someone with this focus on gaining their trust and showing the problem. It's patience work but it's better. You cannot force change on those who are not yet prepare. And till then, I wish you well.
Earlier in my life I was fortunate to have been involved in many , worldwide' exchange student' circumstances ; Wealthy families with large estates were involved in a series of generations of what was referred to as "COLLECTING" magnificent objects...Other families with less resources who collected beautiful things in much smaller surroundings were considered ,' HOARDERS'.
Can the same concept apply to non-physical objects? like collecting unnecessary data, knowledge and constant fear of forgetting those things, also including computer data, old projects, website markers, files, etc?
That was a good one. I went through this myself with my parents. When they both passed away us kids had to deal with a house that time stood still for years and stuff just piled up. My father would not let any of us get rid of anything. We had sneak it out. It took us six months to clean up the house and it took another six months to fix up the house to sell. I have at times in my life taken stuff I had collected for years and just gave it away because I just didn't have the room because I moved into a smaller home. I am not sure what was actually going on with my parents, but as my mother became ill and then passed away, my dad would not allow us to move anything out of place. He would leave stacks of bills, newspapers, and on and on. The garage was another huge mess. We ended up finding dead animals. It was heartbreaking for all of us. Why did we allow my father to live like this? Because we were all more afraid of his anger. We gave up. We just waited until we knew we were going to move out of there.
I have hoarding disorder.my items have perceived value.tools broken or not furniture good or bad,kitchen utensils towels,bedding,clothes,and all else. Huge sense of relief when i rented a storage unit and kept it all"safe". Now I live in a trailer park.unemployed struggling to pay the storage fees. Currently fighting myself to clean my place by tossing the least valuable items to get rid of clutter because I'm behind on the rent. My future doesn't look promising...
Dr. Grande, I have two questions: 1) Are some mental health professionals using the term "cluttering" interchangeably with or as a term to describe a milder form of Hoarding Disorder? 2) I wonder what you think of the depiction of hoarding (and other mental health issues) in the 1995 movie "Unstrung Heroes"? It actually spurred a failed attempt on my part to collect wedding cake toppers. I don't even like weddings, but I do love vintage things and am often guilty of ascribing sentimental value to all manner of stuff. I do still have three or four toppers a good 25 years later, though, so there's that. I don't have acquiring tendencies for objects. It's nearly impossible for me to get rid of things for so many reasons, to where I put declared The Moratorium on most gifts and told friends and family about this. It's probably relevant that the visual of the eccentric brothers' apartment did not stress me out at all. I know that clutter perturbs other people a lot more than it does me. At any rate, I would be very interested in your take on these characters. Now I want to re-watch the movie, which I have on VHS. I still have the tech to play VHS tapes. I can't lose access to old media! That scenario would be truly distressing.
My mind was blown by the notion of collecting items as information. This seems intuitively obvious. In association with PTSD resulting from neglect and abuse, the act becomes more obvious because they're storing a timeline. This manifestation is more likely the result of people not having the capacity or knowledge to understand. In the process of abuse and neglect resulting in perceived schizophrenia, there's many very important reasons to keep memories in this way. It's hilarious to me because this development of a disorder can literally stem from people trying to help or figuring out how to help, and then falling short. It supports my suspicion that most mental illness results from constructs which label them as such, because the cause and effect cannot be adequately understood. In my eyes, many diagnosed mental illness and disorders are created because they're not understood. In this paradoxical perspective, mental illness is fabricated by an outsider's perspective and doesn't necessarily involve the individual seen with a disorder at all. There's a fine line being walked and only one party is creating the boundaries. That's an ethical and moral concern. This model desperately needs inclusivity and participation from both parties, and that simply isn't possible. I want a study where the perceived sick construct their own version of the DSM. The desire for this study is projection from someone I regard as a psychopath, although you may label as narcissistic and abusive.
@@gailremp3628 Hadn't looked at it that way! I've felt burdened by options in the universally acknowledged three step process you've described. If I may offer a suggestion for the title of your inevitable TED Presentation: "Step 3: Figure It Out. The Comprehensive Three Step Solutions To One Step Answers" I'd like to help spread this insight. Do you require assistance copy+pasting Dr. Grande's subscribers, or do I proceed informing the remaining 7.7 billion morons? Oh darn, glanced over Step 3 again. Guess it's back to education to get more university!
What you say is true and insightful. The answer is that mental illness is just that, it adversely affects your health and all facets of your life. People with mental illness frequently deny it because no one wants to think of themselves as being mentally ill, and some are too affected to be aware of it. Hoarding to me is a harmless eccentricity, but if you ask my family they will tell you it could get out of control and then become a mental illness. Not right now though, lol!
Mine is connected to lack of money growing up - although as you said Dr. Grande, I do have the co-morbidities of anxiety and major depressive disorder (with BPD for good measure). Although I have excellent thinking skills and above average intelligence (in some areas). The idea of discarding a lot of what I've acquired is totally alien to me. In fact, I find it difficult to part with stuff that's (otherwise) useless even if I can sell it. Getting rid of something that I've held back "for spares" (it would otherwise go to a state dump) can cause me severe anxiety. Thank you for clearing some of this up though.
I’m a hoarder but mainly of kids toys, kids clothes. So I never get rid of my sons items. I lost a son who was going to use the items. I hoarded way before tho. Things like I use to have a toothbrush from when I was in grade school. Not all just one. I had old school books from grade school. I intended to show my children some day. My OCD and the fact I’m a huge perfectionist …. Has kept my hoarding in check. My kitchen, bathroom, living and dining room including dishes n silverware, has to be a certain way n very clean. I believe it stems from the fact my mom was in the hospital a lot n my dad told me she got infection after surgery because I didn’t keep the house clean. I lived with guilt. I only realized that recently, in my 40’s. I grew up feeling like Cinderella. Always cleaning and crying. It was never clean enough for him tho he was and is a slob n never helped…. 🤦🏻♀️ some day I feel like I’ll be an organized hoarder…. Is there such a thing? Lol
If the person has enough space, the cats have clean beds to sleep in, enough food and water, clean litter, vet visits and normal living conditions, then it's not hoarding. If the person has the cats but they're overcrowded and not properly cared for, then it's a problem.
@@heliaalves9062 Not sure about that. Without a license it violates law in most cases and the time spent to keep the conditions described would clearly interfere with normal activities.
@@marybachmann If the person owns the house and decides to have a spare room turned into a cat room, or has a huge backyard, I can see it work. There's a guy with 20 cats that has built lots of cool things for his cats, his whole house has cat beds and toys. There's a video on UA-cam, I'm sure you can find it easily.
@AllGuts NoGlory I totally agree. This is one of the many reasons I am vegan. Animals are not our property or entertainment. Animals have a right to their own life and to live it without interference, slavery and slaughter from humans.
@@heliaalves9062 thanks that was me the crazy cat lady I had 2 rooms for the cats and the vet worked with me to get them home's I have 2 now but the crazy cat lady things is had work and much money oh the money
Interesting topic, Dr. Grande, and it seems like there are some very fine lines between the various disorders that you describe in this presentation. I collect stuff, not just any stuff, very specific items related to my hobbies and interests. It seems as though people may have different "enough is enough" thresholds. For a more public example, Jay Leno owns one of virtually every car ever manufactured including 1-off concept cars and his vast collection has been featured on television and the internet. He can certainly afford them, but are there any criteria other than neatly organized available space and affordability that can help a person self assess whether their collecting is getting out of control?
I think that the longer a person lives,the more items they acquire.Very simple logic.Also, when a parent dies and their house is cleaned out, sometimes the children take sentimentak items that they normally wouldn't acquire.They may feel like they are now the caretakers of their family history.I'm in sort of a situation like that, but I don't want to throw away mementos of my family.I'm trying to whittle down what I have at the moment.I hate clutter but live in an old house with no built in closets or many shelves.I don't believe I'm a hoarder because I can easily get rid of items that I don-t use or need.
My mom is a helicopter mom and still will not let go of me or my sister. She has 5 cats and a basement full of boxes from when our family moved twice (when I was 12 and again at 19). I am now 26. I'm the youngest. I moved out at 19. She won't get rid of me and my sisters childhood toys and clothes etc. She says most of the boxes are our responsibility, so we went through them, but she makes excuses as to why they are still in the stacks all over the basement. She goes through what we want to throw and my whole life she went through my garbage. She also has always bought us too much stuff that we never wanted. When we were kids and now. Her basement living room is stacked with boxes, and so is an entire bedroom. She also has two of her cats locked in a different bedroom for 6 years. She buys tons of holidays decorations and keeps stacking them in the living room, adding to the boxes. She says she wants to sell our childhood toys and other things and won't throw the decided piles away. But she has never sold anything. Help? I don't know if she's a hoarder or just an extreme helicopter mom or empty nester.
I agree that harding disorder needs to remain a separate diagnostic label. Isn't it true that the prevalence of hoarding in an area increases during periods of high inflation among people who are under a certain level of income? When that increase in hoarding includes acquiring more animals all the time when the home is already crowded with people isn't it true that there might be something more going on with that person than just feeling insecure about the future? I can sure relate to what professionals encounter when it comes to hoarding while working in home care. Very difficult to clean at a single family dwelling place when the person who hired you as a home maker to clean is not telling you much about what they want you to do first to help them keep their home clean. Most of all if it is was a close relative who hired you and the person suffering from it is in total denial about needing help or not being trusting of anyone except their wife there. Living alone as a widower with lots of clutter around is an altogether different situation. There could be many explanations about how that situation came to be. For example the widower could have just had a falling out with a woman in their common law relationship when he started to get ill. If that widower had children willing to help them get out of that kind of situation again and again something else might be going on there too. The most important question to ask is, "What are the values that person had to begin with?" If the person being diagnosed was at one time into being a real estate developer who often liked to do renovations on homes to sell later but then at age 58 or so he fell off a ladder at work while doing an inspection of work done himself then of course that would be an altogether different explanation as to why they were willing to livie in a cluttered place longer than expected while say getting a reno in their own dwelling done at the same time they are still renovating other homes. If it as Mike Holmes kind of character in that situation with a lot of building supplies in his large farm like storage sturcture along with a growing overflow in his yard all of a sudden when the stock market crashes how would he in that kind of situation be diagnosed by some as compared to a different case seen of a young or older woman who inherited not long ago all the supplies from a cottage industry dressmaking business? I would think that the later situation would be an opportunity to encourage a woman in that situation seeking help if she is underemployed to maybe start making surgical masks and better designed for nursing home patients clothing while clearing out any unessecary clutter.
My parents were Great Depression survivability. That coupled with being poor, taught me to be cautious about throwing away anything. It seems that the attraction to any objects were things I desperately wanted as a child and could never have. I have depression and anxiety! I'm retired and now at the end of my life my daughters are seeing just how sick I've been. "Ma, how many purses do you need?!" Cognitive therapy works well, you say. I'll give it a go, Dr. Grande. Anything to be able to walk past the purses without stopping. The purses, the books, the shoe department etc. My sister is worse than I am. Every time I would go shopping with her she would stop and examine it, I would sidle up beside her and say, "Remember, you may have to pack that some day and move it. LOL 😢😅
I have a OCD diagnosis, I'm a year almost into my wait for ASD assessment, it can take a long time in Scotland UK. I call my collecting pokemon syndrome ( jokingly ) because I've got to catch them all, I like full complete collections. And my house is choc full of rocks as my special interest is geology.
I wonder if the age factors also relate to older people having been more likely to experience extreme deprivation in their lives, partly because they have simply had longer lives but mainly because they were alive when there was much greater financial hardship in general. They also grew up in a time when things were not made to be disposable. So they learnt to keep and reuse things, and they are also afraid of experiencing that deprivation again. It will be interesting to see if hoarding therefore reduces over time, with people who grew up in the 1960s onwards being less likely to demonstrate it. Alternatively, it may be that due to the media younger people are more aware of their relative wealth/deprivation, so hoarding later in life may get worse.
Damn, now you have me worried about my packed bookcases falling through the floor. But I don’t have any help to move them. So I guess I should be getting rid of excess books to lighten the load. Some I will never reread. 😮
Children's books personify objects... they write stories about unpopular crayons, for instance, and the day the crayon is eventually used. I believe people carry this into adulthood. "Poor broken pencil," they think, "I can't throw HIM away."
Dr Grande, would you consider offering seminars or a series of programs for mental health professionals. I am interested in a series of seminars focusing on various DSM V topics. Thank you.
I have two friends with this-they seem to be compensating for some terrible loss; like they will never lose anything again? I woke up one morning after watching Hoarders and my socks were on the floor. "Oh no, this is how it starts!" I thought all panicky, and put the socks in the laundry.
Hoarding disorder may come with co- morbidities ocd, major depression, and autism spectrum disorder. It may come along with perfectionism, indecisiveness, procrastination. Often it comes with living alone. Causes: traumatic experiences. Treatment: cognitive therapy. Skills training: how to make decisions, organizing things, cognitive restructuring of the hoarding related beliefs.
Dr Grande, my 90 yr old mother is a hoarder and narcissist .. ( she meets all PD symptoms). She hoards everything and shops constantly, spends money like crazy, demands she comes first, and usurped authority regarding trust. (Yeah, like took it all, and my granny’s that was meant for sister and I. We need to sell her home, but she won’t relent. It’s a money pit. We have cleaned 3 houses and 1 she burned down. My hometown is small, and we have no psyche help here to get her help. Thanks
I’m going to attack that stack of magazines in my living room right now, it’s not very big, but might be at the top if the slippery slope. (My Mom gave me a bunch of National Geographic magazines, which I love, but keep forgetting to read them, since I got in the habit of listening to audiobooks instead of buying paper ones. BTW, audiobooks are great way to reduce book clutter, books are very bulky, heavy and collect dust. I have a bad back and got sick of having to move them around all the time. I did keep the more visual ones, like those with antique illustrations and decorating books).
Items may (UNSUCCESSFULLY!) substitute for the lack of security in the strength of interpersonal relationships, possibly beginning in early childhood. An over-accumulation of items from childhood or “like” childhood (i.e., dolls) may harken back to a time in which the person indeed felt safe and secure, whereas in adulthood they do not. A camera image of the “stuff” can show the person what they cannot see through their own eyes or the eyes of others.
I am a hoarder. I find it emotionally upsetting to have anything of mine thrown away, even if it is broken and I will be overjoyed if I can fix it. I also love throw outs and garbag Ed collections because people don’t recycle and I believe in this to the extreme. My favourite things to collect are boxes, glass jars and plastic bags (because they are so useful). The prettier the things are the better. I don’t do anything with these items but I store them. When I got engaged I brought my fiancé to the walk in cupboard and told him I had to show him something. He looked and said ‘ they are just boxes on each shelf!’ I told him to open them and inside each were smaller and smaller boxes . He still married me but he used them all in the move to our new house and I didn’t tell him it upset me!
I am a hoarder, but I also throw out my garbage. I hoard books, movies and clothes. I don't have any relationships, because I really don't like people. They only use me or steal from me. I'm a pretty happy hoarder, since my hoard keeps people away.
I had this with my mother for years. Dear God it was a constant source of argument since she lived with me.she would verbally accuse me of being all manner of evil. At 81 she went in to nursing home care. The freedom I felt was unbelievable. Tragic waste .
@Vincent Verona That is the way to handle it. Treat them like children, because that is how they act.
This stuff runs in my family like crazy. I'm glad your introduction to it is accurate and non-sensationalized.
Runs in my family, too. It's been a lifelong effort to manage my impulses to accumulate and hang on to stuff.
My mother did not have it until she had a frontal lobe brain tumor. My daughter & I have it without a brain tumor.
one of my Elder Brothers,.....
@@NonnysHouse Same, it's like staving-off a forest fire.
Thank you! My husband has this and it's highly annoying. I can throw nothing away unless it's in his absence. He hoards things he buys in charity shops, electronic items that are not working, plastic containers and glass jars. Clutters everywhere. 🙈 I had to move out of his room because of all the trash.
Same here. We met a friend for lunch and went to a charity thrift store after as I had items to donate. There were some very discolored frying pans that really should have been thrown out. My husband pitched a fit and said he was going to use those pans for camping which never happens. My friend said she thought I was exaggerating when I said he was a hoarder and he was being ridiculous It is always an argument and you never get any thanks for cleaning out clutter.
I have watched several episodes of hoarders and this is a very sad disorder. I felt that the show was exploiting these poor people. But your analysis Dr Grande is much appreciated. I've always found this topic to be interesting so thanks for the breakdown!❤
As a hoarder, I am always envious of those people on the show. I would love to get all that free help! It is very, very hard to change alone. But help is very expensive.
Dear Dr. Grande: but is it hoarding if I just don't go through my stuff because I'm too busy watching scientifically informed insider looks at mental health topics online?
We've all just been busted. Hoarders.........all of us.
🤣 that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it 🤣
hoarding mental health knowledge
Indeed!
shift watching hoarders or obsessive compulsive cleaners, it motivates me to clean and declutter
If you ever want to do a video about the trauma and other psychological implications that entail from having and living with a parent who had hoarding disorder then I'd love to share my own experience with you! My childhood was fairly messed up but I believe a huge part of feeling like an outsider, embarrassment and even shame from a young age was due to the state of the home I grew up in, and ultimately not having any control over it. Please feel free to get in touch if you'd like to discuss anything around this subject :)
My grandmother had some hoarding tendencies, her house was fairly clean but she would always hold on to half-eaten food, fast food containers and cups, napkins, plastic forks and stuff like that. Her basement was filled with old stuff that had accumulated through the years. Now even in her retirement home she holds all the food she doesn't eat and tries to give it to us when we visit.
I always thought that she was like this because of her growing up in the Great Depression (she was born in 1930). I wonder if childhood poverty has anything to do with Hoarding Disorder?
I know that trauma can cause hoarding like a coping mechanism, when they lose someone or feel empty they start to hold on to physical items to fill that void.
Interesting video as always Dr. Grande!
My grandma was also in poverty growing up and she tends to collect/never throw away. She gets very sentimental
It can be linked i think.
My grandmother was like that too. It's very common in people of that generation. It's called the depression mentality.
Dr Grande you are always point on.I love your analysis and always seem to agree. My husband of 30 years who happens to be a garbage truck driver is constantly bringing things home with the statement that he is going to repair said item and make money when he sells refirbished/repaired item and make us money which by the way never happens. I threw a pineapple lamp away 3 times and he dug it back out of our trash 3 times.maddening!!! We currently have a collection of headless Elvis decantures that he swears he is going to rehab. He lost his mother at a very early age and i think he connect with items in an effort to connect with her in some way. Thoughts?
BTW I live in Delaware too!
I had to clean up someone's desk at work who may have had hoarding disorder. I found a sandwich in an envelope, inside a bigger envelope, inside an even bigger envelope etc etc 6 envelopes up allong with years of newspapers and real estate brochures. It was amusing when I was younger but now it's heartbreaking to think about.
I found something similar when I moved into a new place. Left over food dishes up on the closet shelf. Who stores food or used dishes in the cloths closet? I think they had a drug problem. Needless to say; I felt much better after the place got a thorough deep cleaning.
@@kathryncarter6143 Not too familiar with 'meth' but I've seen all of Breaking Bad and I dont think you're wrong to assume that it was some sort of drug!
Kathryn Carter people with eating disorders will also sometimes display this behavior.
After having been homeless I had a very hard time throwing anything away. After losing so much that I valued it became hard to tell what had value. When my income stabilized and I became able to purchase what I needed, it seemed easier to throw away items of marginal value, like old clothes or plastic containers. But for a while there, it was very hard to discard anything at all.
My mother, who had been an excellent housekeeper for most of her life, began hoarding after her partner died -- they'd been moderate hoarders together but she no longer had the income to maintain outbuildings and her hoard took over her new, smaller house. My brother also hoarded and when he moved in with her, he hoarded vehicles. By the time she died and the house was foreclosed upon, it had been destroyed...
I believe the factors that Dr. Grande dismissed regarding poverty are , in fact, relevant. I believe that I am a minor hoarder. The main level of this house as about an average amount of stuff but the basement is filled to capacity with stuff. I do not hoard old food, pets, magazines or plastic containers and am not a collector. Poverty can affect your amount of free time, your energy and your perceived ability to be able to just throw out or donate things. I grew up in an affluent family but of people who had been poor and they were mild hoarders, never throwing anything useful out, always selling or donating good stuff. I did learn from them always to donate good things because "someone could use them." Once I started to live on a fixed income because I am a widow who cares for an adult child with special needs my hoarding increased, not from trauma but from low income. At one time my garage and basement stored 4 washers and dryers and one refrigerator that relatives gave me when they moved and couldn't take theirs but in the course of 10 years I had to use everyone of them. This would have saved me at least $2000+ in replacement costs, more than a month of income. I wish I had more now because I just replaced a washing machine for $600. When you don't have money you look at stuff differently. When my sister in law offered me a set of china that she got from a neighbor I tried to give it away but no family wanted it. I went to check it's value. It is worth a few hundred dollars so down in the basement it will go after I take a picture for an ebay listing. I could have donated it but I need the money. I hoard all of my old clothes that are a size smaller. I have lost weight before and needed that size again if only for a year or two. People say just buy some new clothes when you loose weight. Clothes are expensive and I have neither the time nor the money to shop for a new wardrobe. My current wardrobe is probably a fraction of most people's. I hoard the old push mower because who knows when the riding mower will break down again and I may not have a couple thousand to replace it and might need to mow an 1 1/3 acres for a few years again with a push mower. If someone offered me a second working push mower I might even accept that in case the old push mower goes and I have to replace it that one for a couple of hundred. Low income can be a factor for more reasons than just trauma. I don't believe that I have suffered from much trauma, just lack of time and money. If you don't have the cash how do your afford to hire the organizational coach or the therapist or even the take out food that might save you an hour or so of cooking and clean up that might gain you some time for dealing with your hoard?
I am very similar to you in everything you say but I do have enough money and am lucky enough to not be interested in hoarding large or costly things (except older furniture that I get from throw outs!)
Our house is so full, cluttered, and uncleaned, that I was relieved to see this and know that I'm not a hoarder. My husband is descended from them... But is aware of that and works to avoid it. Income can certainly be a factor. There are absolutely hoarders who are very wealthy, and it's probably easy to fall into if you can afford to keep it from being too obvious and too much of a problem. But people from much, much lower incomes are susceptible because yeah, the stuff could be useful. You might need that thing, or someone else might. It's really hard to just pitch things someone could use, if you've been in the position of needing things, or if you've benefited from other people going, "I don't need this, can you use it?" And you're grateful and want to be able to do that for someone else.
Your doing what works best for you and it's saving alot of money..
There's a great program and/or podcasts called "It's All Clutter" run by Jes Marcy. The Bootcamps will start again in January and you choose how much you want to pay. It's a great group of people and completely non-judgmental rather very supportive. I'll be doing my 4th Bootcamp in January and hope to see you there.
@@territimmerman140 That sounds very interesting. I will check that out! As far the shows that are on TV I prefer the British one with the doctor, Stelios, even though he is always speaking about trauma to A&E's hoarders because not every hoarder they feature is the most extreme to be found and because they go about it a bit more gradually and more positively. They help the hoarders discover their own solutions and encourage them. Most of them truly want to improve their living conditions. A&E is often looking just for shock value.
No comment on the fear of death? I've watched a few of these hoarders shows out of morbid curiousity and they routinely made a note that the subject of the episode started hoarding after the loss of a loved one. I pair that with my own self-knowledge and I reckon this must be a consistent factor. Not that bereavement causes hoarding, but that it's a trigger for someone predisposed to it
I have had some hoarder patients. These have been highly intelligent people who have been somewhat successful in external lives. They often appear much younger than their chronological age.
Me, to a T
Very curious about the appearing younger than actual age part, what would be the connection?
@@mgparis Because they do not worry about anything. They do not worry about bills, unsanitary living conditions, health or if they are going to be put out.
@@saran.4001 That's a good theory. I think that's definitely true for some of them, but not all are in denial, and seem to feel deep shame, anxiety and guilt about their condition, for instance how it affects their loved ones....
@@mgparis Not the ones i have known, personally, and not the ones on the Hoarder's show. They are only anxious about getting their stuff taken and put junk and trash above their loved ones.
"Some of the characteristics associated with hoarding disorder: Perfectionism, avoidance, being disorganized, procrastinating, being highly distractible and indecisive."
I've been doing a lot of personal research about ADHD, and apparently there is a strong link between hoarding behavior and ADHD. Which seems to match well with the characteristics listed by Dr. Grande.
Some of the characteristics seem to match someone with executive functioning problems; like those seen in people ADHD.
True, there's a high degree of comorbidity as mentioned in pretty much every other video on the subject.
In my grandmother's case, I think her hoarding disorder was caused by living thru the great depression.
I lost my husband and my father a year ago. They died within a week of each other. Both were abusive.
Ever since then, I have become a hoarder and I am seeing a therapist. There's no improvement yet, but I realize that it will take time. I was not permitted to cry as a child (I'm female) nor as an adult. I didn't cry at any of my family's funerals, nor have I ever cried at any funeral. My father was hard on me because I was supposed to be a boy; so, he taught me how to be a man. I am not transgender. I like my femininity. I enjoy when men are chivalrous. But I don't, can't, cry. I suppose that I hoard because I can't cry or grieve. It concerns me that a lot of parents are actively teaching their children about gender fluidity. Believe me: if a child is raised in a gender opposite or gender fluid this causes a great deal of confusion and angst in the child.
Best wishes
@@rhobot75 Thank you so much! I actually bought her book last month. I have yet to get started, though. My therapist said that it will take time for me to just start grieving and then getting on with my life.
I wish you the best in life for taking out your time to reply to my comment, giving me such helpful advice. ❤
@@2manybooks2littletime25 You are welcome! .. I try to take comfort in that notion that grieving is a little like that picture on the wall you can't stop staring at, can't touch it, and then one day you can walk by without looking but you know it's there, and another you can without a lot of thought move it soemwhere fresh, and another day, you might find, I might find, it's okay to put it into another frame or give it away to a close relation or even store it away for a few months with other treasured mementos. It will happen in time. One day at a time is the way to go.
@@rhobot75 You are a wonderful human being! 😊
"Actively teaching about gender fluidity" isn't the same as forcing a different gender identity on a child who doesn't wish for that identity.
I know people who are hoarders, it's stressful to deal with....I want to start cleaning and throwing things out but it probably wouldn't be a good idea on my part..because sometimes they have tempers...good video Dr.
They will fight you until their dying breath to avoid getting rid of the smallest thing. It is very hard.
It’s a bad idea not because they have tempers - it’s a bad idea because it’s unhelpful. Like addicts, THEY have to want help, and they have to be the ones to take the concrete steps.
That’s why the therapists on Hoarders protect the hoarder’s sense of agency by letting them veto throwaways, and gives the hoarder the emotional and cognitive decision-making tools to select throwaway items.
@Liza Tanzawa I toss things away slowly when my husband is out. I've even resorted to burning the clutter because IF he finds out I've thrown out his stuff he becomes enraged. I cannot leave a trace! I had to move out of his room it's so full of trash.
It's not a good idea at all they will make your life miserable. You see it is trash but they have an emotional bond to a lot of things for whatever reason, my sister is a hoarder., she's currently in therapy bet her Tendencies still are there
You are right. My family don’t throw anything out that I could know about or see because they know I will raid the bin to see if there is anything useful in it. I don’t see a problem with this but apparently everyone else does!!! I compromise with my family and we are all happy... I currently have switched to collecting plants that people throw out or grow wild that are not native. I still like boxes and glass jars but raiding garbage throw outs really makes my day!
A great breakdown of this interesting disorder
i used to know someone with ocd + hoarding behaviors... they really took up a huge amount of her brain power, they were always going in the back of her mind.... i hope she's gotten more help now. i understand it a bit more now... thank you for the insight
Another really thoughtful and interesting video. Both my parents have hoarding tendencies, especially my father; there tends to be hoarding on his side of the family. I'm autistic but fall into your definition of a collector. Perhaps in opposition to my parents, I like a Zen like atmosphere with very little clutter; it feels good to throw things out or give things away.
Do you ever think that at a certain point, all these mental problems are not different disorders, but are actually just different symptoms and manifestations of the same problem?
Melissa0774 yep it's called attachment trauma...
Yes!
Yes !!
No because some will not have certain symptoms at all,then other illnesses .
I was diagnosed with ocd and I used to hoard. I had every piece of paper I had ever gotten in my basement and it took up many boxes in there and my family made me throw it all away. I even had boxes of unopened mail from years before and any card or flyer or newspaper or school paper that I had ever held. I went through horrible trauma throwing it all away but I went on meds and now I don't even have symptoms (years later).
I would like to see a comparison of hoarders (as a pejorative epithet) and preppers. For example, during the early months of the pandemic, many people went out and bought as much toilet paper and hand sanitizer as would fit in their car, while another group of people already had an abundance of those items (and more) stored away, which they had purchased over time when those items were abundant. Both then the panic buyer and the preper were labeled hoarders. While both types of person were locked down on, the preper generally did not participate in panic buying having purchased their stockpile of supplies over years during times of plenty. I think the general public's disdain for preppers being prepared was unjustified and ludicrous.
I think it was legitimate....people took more than they could use in multiple lifetimes and left many people without.
If you concern is they have a mental illness and should not be judged I can get with that. If you think the preppers were correct in the excess I will have to disagree
You know you watch too many Dr.Grande videos when your actual family doctor calls and you refer to them as “Dr.Grande”
lol Love this comment. ❤
Aaah.....lol 😁
He is so wise ! Addictive-!!!!’
000ops
Blake Almodovar I call my doctors by their Christian ( first) names. ONLY Todd Grande do I address as “ Doctor” Grande
I did some excessive acquisition of wardrobe items, through online shopping, during my two-year-plus COVID lockdown, to fight the boredom and loneliness (I have high-risk medical factors, so couldn’t go in public places). This stopped when I could resume my normal life, but now I have too many clothes and accessories for my available space as well as credit card debt to deal with. I try not to beat myself up too much for this lapse, it did give me something to look forward to, punctuate my endless days, and give me pleasure when it seemed that an endless life of boredom and isolation stretched out before me. I’m going to be very careful that it doesn’t become a habit again, though. My beloved Mom just died two months ago, and I didn’t react to the grief this way, so I think this bad retail therapy habit was nipped in the bud.
I’ve been hoarding Dr Grande videos in my brain.
Thanks for the video Dr. G. My mom and dad are and were hoarders. I find myself throwing away so much I think its cuz of the way I grew up. My mom kept magazines and newspapers boxes , made our house look very dirty. Besides how my mom and dad treated me I never would bring friends over because of the mess and the dynamics of behavoir.
I'm the same way.
Yes absolutely it's obsessive and compulsive to hoard stuff. You're very smart in your work and you have a great shirt collection too!
ALL I KNOW IS IM AS SICK AS THE DAY IS LONG AND I GOT A REAL MESS HEAR AND I SURE LIKE LISTENING TO YOU YOUR ONE HECK OF A DOCTOR I FEEL BETTER ALREADY I WISH I WOULD HAVE BUMPED INTO YOU 40 YEARS AGO STAY COOL
I definitely have hoarding tendencies. Back when I was more financially stable, it manifested as an addiction to shopping. Now that I struggle more financially, I save things like cardboard, paper, and even lint from the dryer in case I need emergency kindling one day... Some people humor me... Of course, others - don't.
And Epstein didn't kill himself.
Lint from the dryer?..Wow!
@@jillellen2631 I've since dropped the dryer lint habit, but still collect everything else that's flammable. Winter is coming.
@@korinajordan7819 Oh dear, I'm so sorry. I do you hope you can get some kind of therapy for this. Good luck and my thoughts are with you.
@@jillellen2631 You are sweet, but I'm ok. I don't have a garage full of the stuff or anything. lol!
At least you don't hoard QAnon posts printed on paper like my uncle.
Decades ago my aunt helped an older woman in her church who’s house was piled up to the ceiling with newspapers and other stuff. They filled multiple huge dumpsters with the clutter. I have had too much lawn equipment, parts, engines and a messy bedroom. In December 2012 my Doctor said Boyd I think that you have Lyme disease, let’s start testing. My rented pole barn storage was so full at times that I couldn’t step on the floor anywhere. I have since been getting rid of a lot of stuff and projects. I feel good getting rid of things and being able to see more of the floor.
I really like the way these episodes are presented. Nicely linear and very interesting.
Dr. Grande, could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE analyze the bizarre, unique, terrifying, viscous, sexually confusing, and mind boggling case of:
Col. Russell Williams, Commander of Canadian Air Force Base, Trenton, Ontario, Canada.
I’m an American woman married to a Canadian man, and we lived near Col. Williams at his part time home in Tweed, Ontario.
And I new one of his terrorized victims.
It’s several years, but she is still traumatized and will not live alone or be at home alone.
I would greatly appreciate your valued opinion on this unforgettable case.
UA-cam has dozens of videos on the matter.
Thank You
Great video and discussion on a very difficult topic, Dr. Grande! I have "collector" tendencies which I have to keep in check. I came from a family where an old, unused item was "going to be worth something someday!" So a lot of things were stored for that "someday," which never came. I'm currently watching a "60-something" friend sink deeper into hoarding -- several years' worth of "collecting" has filled multiple spaces on their property and is now encroaching dangerously on their living space. It's really heartbreaking, but there's nothing I can do as they've become "stuff blind" and don't even realize the dangers of the now cramped spaces. Breaks my heart!
Thanks, this was great! I've been attempting to identify possible examples of hoarding in my personal life, but this clarified that none qualify 👍
Poverty and poor self-care are factors in this disordered (pun intended) behavior. A person who tends to believe they don't deserve to live in a clean house/apt. is likely to have been subjected to early childhood trauma.
Exactly. My sister has been depressed all of her life. I agree with your statement.
Kevin Hornbuckle Yes, I agree.
That maybe, my sister is a hoarder she is so outgoing so friendly will give you the shirt off her back. I think her stems from being picked on in school and bullied in school. When she got married her husband had major medical problems and she felt very overwhelmed. She is in therapy now I'm so glad cuz she is a great person
Poverty definitely a factor, also bereavement, trauma, I suspect a particular combination of the se. But again, you have to rule out physical probs first.
Wow its like you touched something in my head, thats what I feel sometimes
One thing I've noticed is that hoarders dont seem to be interested in the objects aesthetic value very much though they may think so. They dont arrange things in a way that would show that they are interested in how the items look; they end up in bags, under the bed, in piles.
Do you know what it's like to have your family come to help you clean and the first thing they do is open up garbage bags?
I have bipolar disorder with lots of anxiety. I have difficulty sorting and making choices with stuff in my house. At the time, I was taking lithium and 2000 mg depakote. I was really sedated, had my young son make menu choices for me at McDonald's! I managed to work full time. My family was annoyed when I couldn't answer when asked where to put items. If I could have figured that out, I wouldn't have needed help. I was overwhelmed. Still am, a bit. I should have told them that I hid money, forgetting where I stashed it! Maybe they would have valued my belongings instead of regarding stuff as trash.
Oh my goodness, that sounds like my dad. I’ve kind of thought of it before but now I know!
I am a Plant Hoarder .l have hundreds of houseplants.ln the winter when l bring them all in the house is covered with plants.l am Fascinated by them, and spend all my time taking care of them,changing pots,watering,misting them etc.This is a True Compulsion l have ,as l feel unable to go without purchasing a plant if it is something l don't have and decide that l want.l know this is a mental disorder and l am Unable to stop it.
The more l listen to Dr.Grande ,the more mental disorders l am finding that l Have.Good and Bad.
Ha ha re reading this ..all mental disorders r Bad .None of them that r Good .🙄
Thank you for your uploads they’re very helpful and informative
You are quite welcome!
@@DrGrande
Oh I’ll never forget when it was added to the DSM-V. I was relieved. I saw the differentiation for years and had to bill to the closest match- usually OCD. Anywho, thanks for the psychoed. very important. 🙌🏼
Ive listend to this man several times. And I firmly believe that he is a person that can actully talk on a subject for a solid hour and never say anything that you could possibly ever understand. I believe that he himself would be a good study for a head doctor.
mmmmh? what do you mean?
I was looked after by an elderly relative while my parents went to work. I listened to stories about famine and black market and how people set dogs after travelling beggars and when she took me to visit many of the refugees from an area that now belongs to Russia - some who were born shortly before or after WW1 they were often reminiscing those times of hardship. My mum was born after WW2 but the rationing went until her late teens: she never saw an orange until in her twenties!
My parents were poor factory workers and my dad was often at home because of his back problem. Everything was saved and reused as far as possible. Plastic bread bags were saved for freezing wild berries or garden products, margarine tubs for things that had liquid, old curtains became a dress for mother, then a skirt for me and then stripes in a rag rug. There would be a bare bone to give flavour to the soup and we would fight over pieces of fat; luncheon meat was a weekend treat. It was the same with clothes: My cousin would get new trousers or a jumper as he grew. When he grew out of it, my brother inherited it, then my other cousin, my other brother and then me. By the time I had them, a pair of jeans had several patches and the original fabric had worn so thin I could see my skin shining through.. We kept literally everything for years... When I was a young adult I became homeless and had to resort to drinking hot water with sugar, or, if I was lucky, oat flakes soaked in water. I wasn't that fond of candy bars but they were cheaper than fruit. Eventually I managed to earn enough money to rent a room but there was always some problem: I had to move an average once a month. In the end I didn't even bother to unpack my boxes... Things got eventually better but I have had to move several times since and even now the the longest I lived anywhere is three years, not because I ever wanted to move. I get anxious for not having at least few tins and other long lasting food and my second bedroom is half full of flattened cardboard boxes, just in case: they cost a lot of money and at present I wouldn't even know where to obtain them. I had termites in my house but by some miracle they never got into that room!
I have been getting more and more health issues and I have a constant fear in the back of my mind that I cannot work but that I will lose my home and not have enough to eat: I have never been in the position of saving for retirement. Yet I continue hoarding books I might use for work (but I know I never will) and not getting rid of any of the other ones either. I also have hard time throwing away clothes, like the T-shirt with a stain that I bought 25 years ago... (It's otherwise in a perfect condition, you know, so why waste it?)
I'm not saying that my experience made me a hoarder. I'm sure that I have a predisposition to it anyway, but I am sure some of that neurotic behaviour has rubbed on after a 30-year close relationship with someone who is (eventually) a self-confessed hoarder: me hoarding craft things for one day when I have time for it has nothing to do with survival!
My parents were from WW2 and I was brought up not to waste things but they aren’t hoarders, I am. I still maintain I can usually find anything in my house anyone would possible need and I have no guilt or negativity about hoarding. I find it amusing when my kids want to control it. After a few yrs they know they can’t .. I get too emotionally upset if they stop me raiding the bin for things they throw out that were mine.
@@AwfulDog1 I get emotionally attached, too and then get upset if others throw away things I had bought and which I still deem useful. Or when it's books. I guess my love of books is because they were an escape from my parents violent fights, my mother's rejection, loneliness (no other kids) and, well, me and my family being different. They also taught practically everything I needed to know at school until I was 16 - the only homework I had to do was on foreign languages.
But a lot of WHAT I hoard is learnt from my parents. It was normal for everyone to know some DIY and have a few tools, but I have not done any renovation or fixing in my house (painting and varnishing and flat packed furniture doesn't count) but I still doodle over tools and read their specifications while telling myself I really haven't got the need or space for a circular saw... My landlord doesn't even want me to put up some kitchen fittings in case I cracking the wall tiles while drilling screw holes!
@@oakstrong1 I just love my books and hoarded stuff!!! I was an only child too...wonder if it is to do with lacking company and affection???
I used to work in a second hand book store. One time we got a donation from a person who was forced by the city government to get rid of the books in his house because they were stacked all the way to the ceiling. Aside from the books inside his house he also had three shipping containers filled with books. One of these containers was filled with pairs of books that were exatcly identical to one another (two copies of book A, two copies of book B, two copies of book C, etc etc). We had to throw away about 95% of these books because they didn't have any value.
(1 of 2)TG’s videos so often have the aha moment in them for me. I’m really glad I saw this one, glad you do them. Thank you. I recently realized I’ve been doing this for about seven to ten years now (I’ll explain). I can only speak from my own experience (which doesn’t include clinically observational or professional knowledge) but I think it’s a safe bet (if it’s not obvious) people doing this usually have plans for the stuff we gather when we acquire it. Throw that shit away and you’d be throwing away the the plans I was looking forward to. I don’t even know if I am or not anymore but obviously I’m hiding from it because I can’t handle it. I mean, duh I do know how to throw shit away as I take the full bin to the curb every week thank hypothetical you very much.
The observation about high conscientiousness/perfectionism gone astray into slovenliness (I forget the canonical antonym he used, and undoubtedly that says something too) is right on. In my own case it’s because I haven’t always been someone who can’t finish a project, or who knows I need to open my mail but got traumatized by something that arrived in it. I’m almost certain hoarding is the sign people don’t realize is a CPTSD locator beacon.
Maybe some hoarders even realize it but how do you get the courage to try and recover from something that’s still being inflicted, or something seeing your way out from within which is too horrifying (or maybe frightening)? A high tolerance for disgust was mentioned... well, if I may be so bold as to presume hoarding experiences aren’t all THAT different...This hasn’t been my first choice of lifestyle. To the contrary I’ve become resigned to it in disgust because it’s smarter (or at least more practical) in my best estimation to retreat.
Yes there was a pair of traumatizing precipatory events that kicked it off in the late summer and fall of 2012 but then five years later there was another that cemented it and really got it going. I don’t think other people’s experience necessarily follows my own, but I’m aware that for as different as individuals incidentally end up - the fairly concise common composition we share is highly predictive of what we’re gonna do with the experience we live. When people react in ways that appear unpredictable don’t we usually figure out later we’d based our expectation on incomplete or faulty predictors? Stands to reason then that there are unknowns we fail to consider even when evaluating ourselves if we’re in denial or immersion myopia - just as there are when we evaluate others based on missing relevant information or misinformation (deliberate or unintentional). The very filter of self-reporting is SURELY where it ALL goes wrong LOL.
Trusting our own or anyone else’s is a foolish trap PRECISELY BECAUSE none of us knows when our own or somebody else’s can’t be trusted. If ever there were an example of intolerance for ambiguity/uncertainty it must surely be attributing credibility to the oxymoron of self-objectivity. Seriously, how stupid are we to do that…yet still we all do. Reminds me of the time when as a little boy I laughed and said “Well yeah Mom but you’re not objective” to which she replied in absolute startled sincerity (which immediately gave way to narcissistic injury) “Well I think I am” (heavily emphasizing the I). That of course was the memorable part so I don’t know if I said “uh” or anything more, but I doubt it. And I also don’t know if her anger was based on realization or just being contradicted/criticized. LMFAO, I mean making my point and then blaming me for it.🙄 I knew she was crazy and I knew I was stuck with her, but I didn’t know any better than to make the best of it longer than I had to. But the reason you can’t get through to a narcissist is absomosdefalutely because they don’t want you to.
So perhaps to some degree none of us is ready to be gotten through to when in the throes of any compensatory adaptation to trauma. You can still tell the difference though between a person who means well and is trying their best and someone pretending that their best is thinking their eight or nine year old means them harm, because it really does come down to SHARED willingness to be rational in a given situation. So I’m not saying that to prompt compassion for perpetrators unworthy of forgiveness that’ll only be used against the forgiving until they learn the lesson of that. Someone unwilling to grant you the benefit of the same rational common sense they only try to warp in you for having extended it to them is basically having a woke stroke and can’t be reasoned with- because, as I said, they don’t want to be.
The narcissist underestimates what he values in others (resources, abilities, influence, intelligence) on perceived miscalculation because he’s (overblocking the vulnerability of sameness) dismissive of (superior to) them. The codependent overestimates what he values in others (sincerity, integrity, decency, loyalty, honesty) on perceived misinformation because he’s (overpermitting the vulnerability of sameness) NOT dismissive of them.
I don’t agree to shit and then show up late or cancel now because I’m a people pleaser, I do it because in addition to being forgetful disinterested and done with the futility of thinking I have any real agency I can’t fucking concentrate and can’t accurately estimate how long wrapping up anything else and putting together anything required and getting myself ready and allowing for traffic might take. I wasn’t one who tended to run late - my father used to set his watch fast just to tell me I was late. Grown ass man doing that shit. And actually doing it to another grown-ass man, come to think of it.
My father was friends with a man who hoarded cats. He apparently only claimed 3 of the cats. However, there was at least 30 feral cats running around his yard. Even though he didn’t claim all the cats, He would feed all them. I remember my mother was asked to feed the cats and she found newborn kittens with eye infections, which she brought home and we cleaned for 2-3 hrs. I was so angry and upset a human would allow these cats to suffer and would have literally died without us caring for them. Btw, he was known for getting blaring drunk in his backyard. He had a tv setup outside where he would watch Fox News for hours and then talk shit on Facebook, along with posting alt-right politics. Sometimes that involved posting dead cats. One summer my father had asked him to tend to the yard weekly while they were out of state. I was at home alone and he had a key to my house. He’d walk in without knocking or announcing himself. At that time I was a studious bright-eyed psych undergrad taking bio psych during the summer. I have a history of abuse from my father’s former best friend. So, him walking into the house was particularly unsettling. I told my father what was going on, he said, “well he’s not going into your room at night is he?” Pretty much told me to initiate the conversation myself to clear my uncomfortably. My dad’s friend walked into the house like he usually did, and I confronted him calmly. He accused me of not hearing his knocks (he was lying) and left angry. I never liked him, think he’s weird, and don’t trust him for shit.
Edit: btw, my youngest sister has autism. She’s a collector of the things she loves. Not a hoarder. Love how you talked about this.
That "Cat Man" sounds creepy. You were right to not trust him. I would never have given someone like that a key to my home ~ sounds like your dad was too trusting. I'm glad nothing bad happened to you then!
Mikel OBrien thank you!! I appreciate the words of encouragement 🙏🏻
Mikel OBrien
IKR
I would suspect animal abuse, cruelty by neglect. Big red flag 🚩 as possibly narcissistic
I am too busy now that I am watching all these videos. In my family I saw some that grew up poor tend to save everything. She might be OCD too. In some TV shows, there were people who were sick or had dementia as well. Great topic. Still so much to catch up❤️🇨🇦 Thank-you
I know a lady who lost access to her grandson due to her daughter suddenly refusing to allow her to see her grandchild again out of the blue. Weird. And the lady slowly started buying everything in sight ... now her home is filled with clothes and shoes and other pieces of junk.
Kelly York
Interesting how loss triggers spending, maybe it helps to distract from the pain in the moment, and things provide a fleeting feel good but it’s an unhealthy pattern and slippery slope not to mention difficult to climb out of emotionally and financially. Retail therapy anonymous anyone?
In the store where I work, an elderly gentleman would come in just about every day and buy pots and pans. Some or most were high end brands. A relative discovered it all. Probably hundreds of them. Most were still in our bags and had the price tags on them. I've wondered why just pots and the reasons for the hoarding itself. He was moved to either assisted living or a nursing home. I often wonder how he is doing.
It is very difficult to live with a hoarder. Keeping the house organized and putting things where they should be are impossible tasks. Things just keep getting added- shoes, clothes, unopened boxes of items ordered, empty boxes that should have been discarded months ago, etc. If you want to throw any stuff out, she would insist that she will use the item even though it has been sitting in the same spot for the past year unused.
And a person who seeks the ever-elusive “perfection” may not be able to determine Where Best to “home” the items. Failing to know just where something should go, it just sits in a state of prolonged waiting.
Nature vs Nurture? BOTH!!
Being uncertain in a world of impermanence, three of the same shirt (two yet in packaging) hedges the issue of What Happens IF I Loose the Item or IF the Item Becomes Torn or Worn-out??
Tom Waites I believe had a song regarding a dream to own a junk yard full of cars, driving a different one each day… A late friend said that they actually shared that sentiment; it made complete sense.
He ended up with multiple cars snd motorcycles, though no junk yard.
Old Flintstones cartoons, as old Jackie Gleason episodes showed wives Going Shopping or almost compulsively using credit cards (“Charge!!”) as if it were both normal and to be encouraged/discouraged concurrently. No wonder people are confused…
This issue is deep and fascinating!!
One person’s beer can collection on a porch shelf vs saving a late sister’s wedding dress because someone may buy it just to dismantle the material components.
Whenever I watch that show I clean until my house looks decent again! Looks like it’s time to watch some episodes now actually 😬😬😂
Truth
Haha 😆
🦋 Dr. Grande this is specific info that i needed. 🤠🙏🐘big thank you.
I find it quite hard to get rid of pretty boxes. I’m always convinced that they will help me organise my sewing room in a pretty way. And they do. But I’m rigorous about policing this behaviour. Tomorrow I have a rubbish bag of collapsed boxes to throw out. I can totally see how this can get out of hand, but watching Extreme Hoarders has been very motivating
I will take them!!! Where do you live? I am in Australia...!
Years ago I was an editor at a newspaper. I don't know why but our region seemed to have more than usual cases of animal hoarding. There was a particular woman who collected rabbits. Several times she was busted until a judge finally told her she was not allowed within (and it's been awhile so not sure of measurement) 100 feet of a rabbit. She was caught with more rabbits and when she returned to court they found a rabbit in her purse.
Animal advocates had their hands full with every new wave of rescued rabbits.
On the other hand, after Easters many people left their "holiday" pets on golf courses. I remember my husband and brother in law talking about avoiding all the different color rabbits running around a course.
BTW, Steketee and Frost's book: *Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding And The Meaning Of Things* is a great read. If anyone's interested. Can't recommend it enough, though I don't think I could stand reading about the cat hoarder again. It broke my heart.
Depression is a factor. For me mainly social anxiety and addiction. I see it now, going back to my high school days. But getting my own place has been a disaster. Terrible in the eyes of someone else, but it doesn’t even bother me. Insomnia I think has something to do with it. I feel exhausted all the time. As I write this, the sense of short gratification not overcoming the anxiety is strong. It’s been almost a year since I’ve had a visitor, which makes it too easy.
I work with hoarders as part of my job and have come across several tenants who struggle with their hoarding. My experience is that it is to do with control...it can be someone who has previously been abused, or an elderly person who has lost their independence or someone who is ill. Hoarding feels that they can control something, even though it eventually becomes unmanageable. It becomes a health and safety problem and a fire hazard.
My mother has developed a hoarding problem in the last 15 years...it is to do with her narcissism, aging and illness. If you dare mention the piles of junk stacked high, stand back (if you can find a space) and be prepared for RAGE, denial, victim play and more rage.
What amazes me about her, and the people I work with, is where all this stuff comes from and so quickly. In my experience, a lot of it is being obtained on purpose, normally from charity shops (thrift stores in the US). The hoarders are going out and obtaining the items. Almost all of the hoarders I have worked with live alone and everyone I have come across with hoarding disorders try and cover up the problem, deny it or try and pretend they are coping. It takes a lot for them to admit and accept they need help.
Makes me wonder if the 12 step program could help in some instances. 1.Admit I am powerless over hoarding and come to believe that a power greater than myself can restore me to sanity. 2. turn my will and my life over...
I live with a hoarder of clothes and shoes. I got mad once and threw out about 50 pairs of shoes she had not worn in 10 years at least. We have boxes and suitcases full of clothes. I bet most she could not even fit into most of them. We have moved 3 times in the last couple of years and all this junk comes with us. Very distressing to me.
I did volunteer work with a homeless man for a time. He had lost his apartment because he was a hoarder. He was a cool gentle soul but yet another victim of our failings as a society to adequately deal with the psychological disorders behind the homeless crisis.
Thanks for keeping this video here.
Dear Dr Grande
once again you speak.of a disorder in a language that is understandable to a mere human Thank You
have you watched Hoarding program.
also Clean Sweep.
I wish you could walk.alongside people who have these disorders
unfournatly these people are made to feel.ashamed and victimized by those that do not understand this disorder or if they do the people one goal is to stop the disorder not the trauma or reason for it
I’m an Aspie and have a tendency to accumulate possessions...periodic clearer outs required when I psyche myself up for it...
My mom is a hoarder and my deaf and sight disordered dad had to eat moulded food. I have cut the relationship with my mom and sadly my dad is dead now.
I'm so sorry, it must be heartbreaking to watch your dad eat bad food 😭
I have a theory on why it mostly happens to people who live alone, it could be that if they had a partner or someone else living in the house, they would not want that person to live in a hoarder house, and subconsciously not hoard.
thanxs for your vid Dr. Grande i feel better about dealing with my hoarder family
Both parents are somewhat hoarders but hoard different stuff. And they don't like anothers tendencies. Seems to work like that, they're constantly going on with that.
Mom keeps hoarding kitchen stuff, clothing, yarns etc.
Father keeps hoarding tools, electronics and other usefull manly things. (Read: ex. car parts and imagine rest)
I get a call whenever storm rises.. "You know I heard you need this thing and we have it, you want it?"
And that didn't help my own hoarding tendencies at all. 😂
Nowadays after some work with mental health, too much stuff lying around gives me anxiety 😬 and learned to say no to free stuff 😅
I'm autistic and a hoarder. Well I say I'm a hoarder but really I don't like living in clutter. I live with my parents and when I was a kid my dad used to tidy my room, and I hated it when he would throw my stuff away. And since moving, many of my childhood items got thrown away and so I have to stop that happening again. It's this and the fact that I don't really know how to tidy my room properly, and now it's gotten to the point where attempting to tidy my room is a daunting seemingly impossible task that I just don't do it, and the fact I won't let anyone help me, cause a) I don't want my stuff to be thrown away and b) I don't want them to find my more personal or private items. I also have this tendency to over-empathise, with people and animals but even empathising with objects and feeling sorry for them if thrown away (Toy story was one of my favourite movies growing up and probably didn't help with this.) However I have decided that I will try and work on tidying my room little by little, for the first time in years.
just wanted to thank you for the informative videos. An amazing public service you have performed. Had a long term (platonic) business relationship with someone who is probably a narcissist of some kind, the variety unable to trust anyone, and has no visible ethics of any kind. Yet charms you in the beginning with competence and unusual dedication. That’s the one! I wish I could ask a question though: Is there an avoidance / hoarding disorder associated with owners of small businesses that become too distraught, overcome, numb or whatever to properly invoice their customers? A peculiar disease where every further day of delay adds to the shame and dysfunction until it is easier to simply default at a total loss. An eventuality that usually leads to loss of the client relationship as well. Is this a common disorder or is it rare and unusual? And why do I associate being unable to write a bill for work performed with the hoarding compulsion? Perhaps the person suffering is collecting hostages (people waiting) as a response to lack of control? Or feeling abandoned and discarded, or mocked? Or can it just be burnout from one too many design quotations that go nowhere, one too many invoices received an angry response, were ignored, unpaid or refused? To what extent is billing fatigue normal?
I had this together with my mom.
And, oh God! People have no clue of how hard it is. I had been fighting this since my 16 and it was hard, it's not as simple as to "toss everything" since we usually have cognitive impairments (due to untreated mental illness) and often mess up in the process. Most things I don't regret but there was things from my childhood I wished I had kept or treated better. "When everything is important, nothing is important" goes the saying and It's hard to know the true value of things to the point you lost important documents, destroy stuff by miss treading and even lost your own health. Even if you know you have a problem, it's basically impossible to make or follow a plan to get out and things just snowball...
Treading bipolar was life changing since I finally can think properly but hoarding is one of those things I wish only to maintain at bay.... :/
And I had lost patience with my mom, but if you live with someone with this focus on gaining their trust and showing the problem. It's patience work but it's better. You cannot force change on those who are not yet prepare. And till then, I wish you well.
Earlier in my life I was fortunate to have been involved in many , worldwide' exchange student' circumstances ; Wealthy families with large estates were involved in a series of generations of what was referred to as "COLLECTING" magnificent objects...Other families with less resources who collected beautiful things in much smaller surroundings were considered ,' HOARDERS'.
Can the same concept apply to non-physical objects? like collecting unnecessary data, knowledge and constant fear of forgetting those things, also including computer data, old projects, website markers, files, etc?
That was a good one. I went through this myself with my parents. When they both passed away us kids had to deal with a house that time stood still for years and stuff just piled up. My father would not let any of us get rid of anything. We had sneak it out. It took us six months to clean up the house and it took another six months to fix up the house to sell. I have at times in my life taken stuff I had collected for years and just gave it away because I just didn't have the room because I moved into a smaller home. I am not sure what was actually going on with my parents, but as my mother became ill and then passed away, my dad would not allow us to move anything out of place. He would leave stacks of bills, newspapers, and on and on. The garage was another huge mess. We ended up finding dead animals. It was heartbreaking for all of us. Why did we allow my father to live like this? Because we were all more afraid of his anger. We gave up. We just waited until we knew we were going to move out of there.
I have hoarding disorder.my items have perceived value.tools broken or not furniture good or bad,kitchen utensils towels,bedding,clothes,and all else. Huge sense of relief when i rented a storage unit and kept it all"safe". Now I live in a trailer park.unemployed struggling to pay the storage fees. Currently fighting myself to clean my place by tossing the least valuable items to get rid of clutter because I'm behind on the rent. My future doesn't look promising...
Dr. Grande, I have two questions:
1) Are some mental health professionals using the term "cluttering" interchangeably with or as a term to describe a milder form of Hoarding Disorder?
2) I wonder what you think of the depiction of hoarding (and other mental health issues) in the 1995 movie "Unstrung Heroes"? It actually spurred a failed attempt on my part to collect wedding cake toppers. I don't even like weddings, but I do love vintage things and am often guilty of ascribing sentimental value to all manner of stuff. I do still have three or four toppers a good 25 years later, though, so there's that. I don't have acquiring tendencies for objects. It's nearly impossible for me to get rid of things for so many reasons, to where I put declared The Moratorium on most gifts and told friends and family about this.
It's probably relevant that the visual of the eccentric brothers' apartment did not stress me out at all. I know that clutter perturbs other people a lot more than it does me. At any rate, I would be very interested in your take on these characters.
Now I want to re-watch the movie, which I have on VHS. I still have the tech to play VHS tapes. I can't lose access to old media! That scenario would be truly distressing.
My mind was blown by the notion of collecting items as information. This seems intuitively obvious. In association with PTSD resulting from neglect and abuse, the act becomes more obvious because they're storing a timeline. This manifestation is more likely the result of people not having the capacity or knowledge to understand. In the process of abuse and neglect resulting in perceived schizophrenia, there's many very important reasons to keep memories in this way. It's hilarious to me because this development of a disorder can literally stem from people trying to help or figuring out how to help, and then falling short. It supports my suspicion that most mental illness results from constructs which label them as such, because the cause and effect cannot be adequately understood.
In my eyes, many diagnosed mental illness and disorders are created because they're not understood. In this paradoxical perspective, mental illness is fabricated by an outsider's perspective and doesn't necessarily involve the individual seen with a disorder at all. There's a fine line being walked and only one party is creating the boundaries. That's an ethical and moral concern. This model desperately needs inclusivity and participation from both parties, and that simply isn't possible. I want a study where the perceived sick construct their own version of the DSM. The desire for this study is projection from someone I regard as a psychopath, although you may label as narcissistic and abusive.
Good grief. Go to a university get more education and figure it out.
@@gailremp3628 Hadn't looked at it that way! I've felt burdened by options in the universally acknowledged three step process you've described. If I may offer a suggestion for the title of your inevitable TED Presentation: "Step 3: Figure It Out. The Comprehensive Three Step Solutions To One Step Answers"
I'd like to help spread this insight. Do you require assistance copy+pasting Dr. Grande's subscribers, or do I proceed informing the remaining 7.7 billion morons? Oh darn, glanced over Step 3 again. Guess it's back to education to get more university!
What you say is true and insightful. The answer is that mental illness is just that, it adversely affects your health and all facets of your life. People with mental illness frequently deny it because no one wants to think of themselves as being mentally ill, and some are too affected to be aware of it. Hoarding to me is a harmless eccentricity, but if you ask my family they will tell you it could get out of control and then become a mental illness. Not right now though, lol!
I have a relative that is a notorious hoarder. Thank you for the video.
Mine is connected to lack of money growing up - although as you said Dr. Grande, I do have the co-morbidities of anxiety and major depressive disorder (with BPD for good measure). Although I have excellent thinking skills and above average intelligence (in some areas).
The idea of discarding a lot of what I've acquired is totally alien to me. In fact, I find it difficult to part with stuff that's (otherwise) useless even if I can sell it. Getting rid of something that I've held back "for spares" (it would otherwise go to a state dump) can cause me severe anxiety.
Thank you for clearing some of this up though.
I’m a hoarder but mainly of kids toys, kids clothes. So I never get rid of my sons items. I lost a son who was going to use the items. I hoarded way before tho. Things like I use to have a toothbrush from when I was in grade school. Not all just one. I had old school books from grade school. I intended to show my children some day. My OCD and the fact I’m a huge perfectionist …. Has kept my hoarding in check. My kitchen, bathroom, living and dining room including dishes n silverware, has to be a certain way n very clean. I believe it stems from the fact my mom was in the hospital a lot n my dad told me she got infection after surgery because I didn’t keep the house clean. I lived with guilt. I only realized that recently, in my 40’s. I grew up feeling like Cinderella. Always cleaning and crying. It was never clean enough for him tho he was and is a slob n never helped…. 🤦🏻♀️ some day I feel like I’ll be an organized hoarder…. Is there such a thing? Lol
Ah, so you're saying, 'the crazy cat lady' stereotype with 20+ cats is actually a type of hoarder?? This is so interesting!
If the person has enough space, the cats have clean beds to sleep in, enough food and water, clean litter, vet visits and normal living conditions, then it's not hoarding. If the person has the cats but they're overcrowded and not properly cared for, then it's a problem.
@@heliaalves9062 Not sure about that. Without a license it violates law in most cases and the time spent to keep the conditions described would clearly interfere with normal activities.
@@marybachmann If the person owns the house and decides to have a spare room turned into a cat room, or has a huge backyard, I can see it work. There's a guy with 20 cats that has built lots of cool things for his cats, his whole house has cat beds and toys. There's a video on UA-cam, I'm sure you can find it easily.
@AllGuts NoGlory I totally agree. This is one of the many reasons I am vegan. Animals are not our property or entertainment. Animals have a right to their own life and to live it without interference, slavery and slaughter from humans.
@@heliaalves9062 thanks that was me the crazy cat lady I had 2 rooms for the cats and the vet worked with me to get them home's I have 2 now but the crazy cat lady things is had work and much money oh the money
Interesting topic, Dr. Grande, and it seems like there are some very fine lines between the various disorders that you describe in this presentation. I collect stuff, not just any stuff, very specific items related to my hobbies and interests. It seems as though people may have different "enough is enough" thresholds. For a more public example, Jay Leno owns one of virtually every car ever manufactured including 1-off concept cars and his vast collection has been featured on television and the internet. He can certainly afford them, but are there any criteria other than neatly organized available space and affordability that can help a person self assess whether their collecting is getting out of control?
I think that the longer a person lives,the more items they acquire.Very simple logic.Also, when a parent dies and their house is cleaned out, sometimes the children take sentimentak items that they normally wouldn't acquire.They may feel like they are now the caretakers of their family history.I'm in sort of a situation like that, but I don't want to throw away mementos of my family.I'm trying to whittle down what I have at the moment.I hate clutter but live in an old house with no built in closets or many shelves.I don't believe I'm a hoarder because I can easily get rid of items that I don-t use or need.
My mom is a helicopter mom and still will not let go of me or my sister. She has 5 cats and a basement full of boxes from when our family moved twice (when I was 12 and again at 19). I am now 26. I'm the youngest. I moved out at 19. She won't get rid of me and my sisters childhood toys and clothes etc. She says most of the boxes are our responsibility, so we went through them, but she makes excuses as to why they are still in the stacks all over the basement. She goes through what we want to throw and my whole life she went through my garbage. She also has always bought us too much stuff that we never wanted. When we were kids and now. Her basement living room is stacked with boxes, and so is an entire bedroom. She also has two of her cats locked in a different bedroom for 6 years. She buys tons of holidays decorations and keeps stacking them in the living room, adding to the boxes. She says she wants to sell our childhood toys and other things and won't throw the decided piles away. But she has never sold anything. Help? I don't know if she's a hoarder or just an extreme helicopter mom or empty nester.
I agree that harding disorder needs to remain a separate diagnostic label. Isn't it true that the prevalence of hoarding in an area increases during periods of high inflation among people who are under a certain level of income? When that increase in hoarding includes acquiring more animals all the time when the home is already crowded with people isn't it true that there might be something more going on with that person than just feeling insecure about the future? I can sure relate to what professionals encounter when it comes to hoarding while working in home care. Very difficult to clean at a single family dwelling place when the person who hired you as a home maker to clean is not telling you much about what they want you to do first to help them keep their home clean. Most of all if it is was a close relative who hired you and the person suffering from it is in total denial about needing help or not being trusting of anyone except their wife there. Living alone as a widower with lots of clutter around is an altogether different situation. There could be many explanations about how that situation came to be. For example the widower could have just had a falling out with a woman in their common law relationship when he started to get ill. If that widower had children willing to help them get out of that kind of situation again and again something else might be going on there too. The most important question to ask is, "What are the values that person had to begin with?" If the person being diagnosed was at one time into being a real estate developer who often liked to do renovations on homes to sell later but then at age 58 or so he fell off a ladder at work while doing an inspection of work done himself then of course that would be an altogether different explanation as to why they were willing to livie in a cluttered place longer than expected while say getting a reno in their own dwelling done at the same time they are still renovating other homes. If it as Mike Holmes kind of character in that situation with a lot of building supplies in his large farm like storage sturcture along with a growing overflow in his yard all of a sudden when the stock market crashes how would he in that kind of situation be diagnosed by some as compared to a different case seen of a young or older woman who inherited not long ago all the supplies from a cottage industry dressmaking business? I would think that the later situation would be an opportunity to encourage a woman in that situation seeking help if she is underemployed to maybe start making surgical masks and better designed for nursing home patients clothing while clearing out any unessecary clutter.
I found your video about hoarding interesting and informative. Thank you for posting it.
My parents were Great Depression survivability. That coupled with being poor, taught me to be cautious about throwing away anything. It seems that the attraction to any objects were things I desperately wanted as a child and could never have. I have depression and anxiety! I'm retired and now at the end of my life my daughters are seeing just how sick I've been. "Ma, how many purses do you need?!" Cognitive therapy works well, you say. I'll give it a go, Dr. Grande. Anything to be able to walk past the purses without stopping. The purses, the books, the shoe department etc. My sister is worse than I am. Every time I would go shopping with her she would stop and examine it, I would sidle up beside her and say, "Remember, you may have to pack that some day and move it. LOL 😢😅
I have a OCD diagnosis, I'm a year almost into my wait for ASD assessment, it can take a long time in Scotland UK. I call my collecting pokemon syndrome ( jokingly ) because I've got to catch them all, I like full complete collections. And my house is choc full of rocks as my special interest is geology.
I wonder if the age factors also relate to older people having been more likely to experience extreme deprivation in their lives, partly because they have simply had longer lives but mainly because they were alive when there was much greater financial hardship in general. They also grew up in a time when things were not made to be disposable. So they learnt to keep and reuse things, and they are also afraid of experiencing that deprivation again. It will be interesting to see if hoarding therefore reduces over time, with people who grew up in the 1960s onwards being less likely to demonstrate it. Alternatively, it may be that due to the media younger people are more aware of their relative wealth/deprivation, so hoarding later in life may get worse.
Great treatment start: MOVE! It make you dump a lot of stuff.
Kathryn Carter
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Truth!
Damn, now you have me worried about my packed bookcases falling through the floor. But I don’t have any help to move them.
So I guess I should be getting rid of excess books to lighten the load. Some I will never reread. 😮
Children's books personify objects... they write stories about unpopular crayons, for instance, and the day the crayon is eventually used. I believe people carry this into adulthood. "Poor broken pencil," they think, "I can't throw HIM away."
Ah. Back in the day when Dr Grande did scientifically useful videos. Lovely stuff.
Dr Grande, would you consider offering seminars or a series of programs for mental health professionals. I am interested in a series of seminars focusing on various DSM V topics. Thank you.
I have two friends with this-they seem to be compensating for some terrible loss; like they will never lose anything again?
I woke up one morning after watching Hoarders and my socks were on the floor. "Oh no, this is how it starts!" I thought all panicky, and put the socks in the laundry.
My family has this disorder.
It's one of the toughest things you'll ever witness
Hoarding disorder may come with co- morbidities ocd, major depression, and autism spectrum disorder. It may come along with perfectionism, indecisiveness, procrastination. Often it comes with living alone. Causes: traumatic experiences. Treatment: cognitive therapy. Skills training: how to make decisions, organizing things, cognitive restructuring of the hoarding related beliefs.
Dr Grande, my 90 yr old mother is a hoarder and narcissist .. ( she meets all PD symptoms). She hoards everything and shops constantly, spends money like crazy, demands she comes first, and usurped authority regarding trust. (Yeah, like took it all, and my granny’s that was meant for sister and I. We need to sell her home, but she won’t relent. It’s a money pit. We have cleaned 3 houses and 1 she burned down. My hometown is small, and we have no psyche help here to get her help. Thanks
I’m going to attack that stack of magazines in my living room right now, it’s not very big, but might be at the top if the slippery slope. (My Mom gave me a bunch of National Geographic magazines, which I love, but keep forgetting to read them, since I got in the habit of listening to audiobooks instead of buying paper ones. BTW, audiobooks are great way to reduce book clutter, books are very bulky, heavy and collect dust. I have a bad back and got sick of having to move them around all the time. I did keep the more visual ones, like those with antique illustrations and decorating books).
Items may (UNSUCCESSFULLY!) substitute for the lack of security in the strength of interpersonal relationships, possibly beginning in early childhood.
An over-accumulation of items from childhood or “like” childhood (i.e., dolls) may harken back to a time in which the person indeed felt safe and secure, whereas in adulthood they do not.
A camera image of the “stuff” can show the person what they cannot see through their own eyes or the eyes of others.
I am a hoarder. I find it emotionally upsetting to have anything of mine thrown away, even if it is broken and I will be overjoyed if I can fix it. I also love throw outs and garbag Ed collections because people don’t recycle and I believe in this to the extreme. My favourite things to collect are boxes, glass jars and plastic bags (because they are so useful). The prettier the things are the better. I don’t do anything with these items but I store them. When I got engaged I brought my fiancé to the walk in cupboard and told him I had to show him something. He looked and said ‘ they are just boxes on each shelf!’ I told him to open them and inside each were smaller and smaller boxes . He still married me but he used them all in the move to our new house and I didn’t tell him it upset me!
I am a hoarder, but I also throw out my garbage. I hoard books, movies and clothes. I don't have any relationships, because I really don't like people. They only use me or steal from me. I'm a pretty happy hoarder, since my hoard keeps people away.