Although They Have The GTO-VVVF Controlled Traction Motors, Known For It's "Car Shift" Like Acceleration and Deceleration at Low Speeds. The IGBT For Instance Makes Rathet a "Whine" (Like in 2:26) Or a Hiss For Later IGBTs. The Best Example Are The Japanese EMUs Equipped with Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Toshiba Or Even Toyo Denki VVVF Motors.
@@FM60260 323s actually have IGBTs that are programmed to switch like this. These replaced the original GTOs (since replacements are hard to get hold of) but made it much easier and cheaper to get them certified (since they are putting out the same frequencies and interference as when they were originally tested and certified). The same has been done with other trains in other countries.
@@ChrisCooper312 Yes, it is pretty cool that Alstom set up the new IGBT equipment like they did. I don't know how much work it would take programming everything vs testing the motors on a default inverter setting. But I often wonder if someone at Alstom had a thing for the characteristics of the 323s and empathised for those that missed the old 465/0 after Hitachi repowered them, so decided to have them programmed rather than the motors recertified. I think it would also remove the need to have that weird artificial sound system on electric vehicles if the inverters were setup to have a lower switching frequency (and would also sound cooler when the lights turned green).
@@FM60260 it was nothing to do with keeping the sounds. That was just a result of the way they set up the new IGBTs. It's all about the electrical noise. The 323s were extensively tested back in the early 90s for the routes they operate to make sure that any electrical noise isn't a problem. By setting up the IGBTs to work exactly the same as the GTOs did, it means that testing is still valid.
Diego, você poderia explicar para leigos como funciona motores elétricos e pra que serve o inversor de frequências? Principalmente para enterdemos a diferença das trações GTO-VVVF e IGBT-VVVF
bom dia Diogo ! obrigado por compartilhar suas experiências , 2 perguntas : no seu outro vídeo ,1 ° pode ser usado com IGBT ? no meu vídeo , eu usei igbt, , parei os testes devido a falta de tempo, a etapa de DRIVE que eu desenvolvi pode usar IGBT ou qualquer transistor, mas esse seu é ótimo, o drive eu desejo desenvolver e vender no ML, , O japonês que aqui em baixo nas perguntas , ele perguntou se nesse vídeo aqui voce esta usando qual tipo de transistor na etapa de potência? eu penso que é um bloco , ok?
The IGBT (insulated-gate bipolar transistor), or GTO (gate turn-off thyristor), are just the names of the semiconductor technology used. Since IGBT is a much more modern transistor technology, it has a much higher switching frequency which gives it the ability to make a higher sound. But not every sound heard is to do with the semiconductor technology; most sounds relate to how the motor is pulsed, which is the VVVF (variable-voltage/variable-frequency) drive pulsing out an artificial AC wave from a DC supply (but if you have an AC supply it has to be converted to DC first). The sounds are not to do with gear changes, they are caused by a byproduct of how the software for the VVVF drive is programmed. The motor we use must be either an asynchronous or synchronous AC motor in a 3-phase configuration or a synchronous motor with permanent magnets. Since AC goes between positive and negative, we need 6 semiconductors, i.e. 3 for positive and 3 for negative. Depending on which type of semiconductor we are using, it may have a limit on how fast it can pulse at; this means upon reaching a certain speed we need to remove some pulses so that the semiconductors don't get overloaded. Since the pulse-width modulation is what causes the sound, every time pulses are removed causes the sound to go back down. This is for the pattern based method; there is also perfectionist method where semiconductors are pulsing at a set frequency that doesn't change as the voltage changes, changing how long they pulse between 0 and 100%; it's recommended upon reaching a certain speed to switch back to the pattern-based PWM method to obtain the precise pinpoints on where your VVVF drive pulses.
Showing the scope was a nice touch, really illustrates clearly how the variable frequency drives work!
i like how u showed the oscilloscope as well as it clearly shows the pulse changes! ❤
Thats one sick sounding motor start UP!!
Thanks for sharing
👍👍👍👍👍 THUMBS UP 👍👍👍👍👍
Great video.☺️ Sounds Like the old class 465/0 and /1 traction pack, a class 323 and a Eurostar class 373 Motors all in one.☺️
Although They Have The GTO-VVVF Controlled Traction Motors, Known For It's "Car Shift" Like Acceleration and Deceleration at Low Speeds. The IGBT For Instance Makes Rathet a "Whine" (Like in 2:26) Or a Hiss For Later IGBTs. The Best Example Are The Japanese EMUs Equipped with Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Toshiba Or Even Toyo Denki VVVF Motors.
@@poznanskiszybkowiec_official Not if you program the IGBT inverters to switch at a lower frequency like this one.
@@FM60260 323s actually have IGBTs that are programmed to switch like this. These replaced the original GTOs (since replacements are hard to get hold of) but made it much easier and cheaper to get them certified (since they are putting out the same frequencies and interference as when they were originally tested and certified). The same has been done with other trains in other countries.
@@ChrisCooper312 Yes, it is pretty cool that Alstom set up the new IGBT equipment like they did. I don't know how much work it would take programming everything vs testing the motors on a default inverter setting. But I often wonder if someone at Alstom had a thing for the characteristics of the 323s and empathised for those that missed the old 465/0 after Hitachi repowered them, so decided to have them programmed rather than the motors recertified.
I think it would also remove the need to have that weird artificial sound system on electric vehicles if the inverters were setup to have a lower switching frequency (and would also sound cooler when the lights turned green).
@@FM60260 it was nothing to do with keeping the sounds. That was just a result of the way they set up the new IGBTs. It's all about the electrical noise. The 323s were extensively tested back in the early 90s for the routes they operate to make sure that any electrical noise isn't a problem. By setting up the IGBTs to work exactly the same as the GTOs did, it means that testing is still valid.
This is like listening to music. Love it
I would love to actually make something like this myself! Can you give some advice or maybe a tutorial? This is amazing!
wow thats amezing sound i will buy that
Diego, você poderia explicar para leigos como funciona motores elétricos e pra que serve o inversor de frequências? Principalmente para enterdemos a diferença das trações GTO-VVVF e IGBT-VVVF
So it switches "off" cycle smoothly and "duty" cycle with steps.
bom dia Diogo ! obrigado por compartilhar suas experiências , 2 perguntas : no seu outro vídeo ,1 ° pode ser usado com IGBT ? no meu vídeo , eu usei igbt, , parei os testes devido a falta de tempo, a etapa de DRIVE que eu desenvolvi pode usar IGBT ou qualquer transistor, mas esse seu é ótimo, o drive eu desejo desenvolver e vender no ML, , O japonês que aqui em baixo nas perguntas , ele perguntou se nesse vídeo aqui voce esta usando qual tipo de transistor na etapa de potência? eu penso que é um bloco , ok?
Sounds like Helsinki metro
Kakkosnelonen it’s the same motor
@@moroccanadi3105 no
Telefon Dose I dident know
@@moroccanadi3105 It's the same inverter, not same motor. Motor emits the sound, but the sound is "synthesized" by the inverter if you will.
@@moroccanadi3105 Same inverter, but a much smaller motor. The motor acts like a loudspeaker.
Wanna have that too 😍
GTO VVVF!!!!
2:57 - Hellfire commences!
What’s actually making that sound? What parts of the motor are making that frequency, the windings?
is high frequency switching vibration in the coils.
1:12 aqui parece aliviando o freio do 1700, mas em 1:23 já se assemelha ao 9000.
Can you please explain me what all that igbt, vvvf, gto is? Especially that weid gear up sound
Essentially just a train's motor power supply
@Daredo yeah, I couldn’t explain it without putting some scientific words into it so thanks for the contribution
The IGBT (insulated-gate bipolar transistor), or GTO (gate turn-off thyristor), are just the names of the semiconductor technology used. Since IGBT is a much more modern transistor technology, it has a much higher switching frequency which gives it the ability to make a higher sound. But not every sound heard is to do with the semiconductor technology; most sounds relate to how the motor is pulsed, which is the VVVF (variable-voltage/variable-frequency) drive pulsing out an artificial AC wave from a DC supply (but if you have an AC supply it has to be converted to DC first). The sounds are not to do with gear changes, they are caused by a byproduct of how the software for the VVVF drive is programmed. The motor we use must be either an asynchronous or synchronous AC motor in a 3-phase configuration or a synchronous motor with permanent magnets. Since AC goes between positive and negative, we need 6 semiconductors, i.e. 3 for positive and 3 for negative. Depending on which type of semiconductor we are using, it may have a limit on how fast it can pulse at; this means upon reaching a certain speed we need to remove some pulses so that the semiconductors don't get overloaded. Since the pulse-width modulation is what causes the sound, every time pulses are removed causes the sound to go back down. This is for the pattern based method; there is also perfectionist method where semiconductors are pulsing at a set frequency that doesn't change as the voltage changes, changing how long they pulse between 0 and 100%; it's recommended upon reaching a certain speed to switch back to the pattern-based PWM method to obtain the precise pinpoints on where your VVVF drive pulses.
Could you tell us the brand and part number of the drive you are using?
Hello Friend. It is an inverter General Electric AF-200E model. the integrated circuit responsible for the entire operation is HEF4752VP.
Onde vc conseguiu essa roda de inércia?
Vitor Silva em um ferro velho. tive que mandar torndar pra balancear. depois parafuso numa polos.
Definitely used in class 323
its completely different VF drive and programming, along with motor in the 323
I think it sounds more like a 365/465
The 323s had Holec but now use Alstom inverters strangely set up to imitate the original Holec inverters
Hai bro can u please tell me opto coupler number & dc to dc converter details.
Oi! Isso é o acionamento do gate de um dos igbts?
Sim
@@diegopereira2479 Show! Tem algum feedback do motor para o controlador, ou é open-loop?
@@thearvie é um motor comum. Gaiola 1cv
@@diegopereira2479 Beleza, valeuuu!
Frequency and PWM adjusting?
yes
hey, could you help repairing an ac/dc converter?
I'd pay you (PayPal) for the repair and send you the part per postal servicd
GTO or IGBT?
Sounds like gto
Its igbt
OLA AMIGO PODEME ENVIAR UM DESENHO PARA VER COMO E FEITO UM IGBT VVVF INVERTER
Why produce the gear shifting sound?
That's the sound of the change in frequency.
That's the frequency step change sound, frequency stepping...
Sounds like it has 7 gears xD
It's caused by the pulse-width modulation, where the sound goes back down each time you remove pulses.
@@ZeldaACFan17 The sound is actually caused by the PWM, where each time pulses are removed causes the sound to go back down.
scarborough rt
Nah, doesn't sound like a MK 1 to me...
323.
Class 373.
class 323
I think it sounds more like a class 465 or a 365