What if Pokemon Could Learn 5 Moves?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Ever wonder what Pokemon would be like if Pokemon could learn 5 moves? World Champion Wolfe Glick is here to tell you his thoughts.
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Do you think Pokemon should be able to learn 5 moves?
No
In a different format sure, maybe even 6 moves. For the sake of mainline and vgc, no, there are other things to balance.
6v6 singles would turn into quite the defensive battle 😣 I don't mind introducing new mechanics each gen but the reverse power creep (without dynamax) is painfully evident without megas
Yes
Nope
ok but what if every pokemon could learn “Super Explosion: 1500 base power, kills your entire team”
that’s what we REALLY need in pokemon rn
GAMEFREAK DO NOT HIRE THIS MAN
Hey hey, chill out satan! This ain't hell yet y'know.
IF THEY WOULD GIVE ME ELECTRODE
Perhaps...
What if it had wonder gard
We should redo our championship battle, but my Pokemon have 5 moves and yours don't. Feels fair!
first reply (hi john i love your content)
🤔🤔🤔
there’s a custom showdown format that actually lets you use more than 4 moves :O
I mean it would make it a much fairer fight.
XP jk
@@jaspermidnight850 what's it called?
According to the developers, they’ve tested out giving Pokemon 3, 5, 6, 8, etc moves. And 4 moves was the most balanced according to them.
_Much_ more restrictive movepools would allow for more moves and still be balanced. That doesn't mean it would be desirable of course.
@Nameless, do you have a source? I don't doubt you, but I'd be interesting in reading more!
@@johnpancho6586 I believe it was somewhere on either Twitter or UA-cam
@@johnpancho6586 The source is that i made it the fuck up!
@@Hanreky based
"When you let Pokemon learn an additional move, all Pokemon have more moves."
That's the hard-hitting journalism we subscribe to Wolfey for.
@@jenniferlee6333 Magikarp can get bounce/hydro pump through events and in sun/move bounce is tutorable so a moveset of splash, flail, tackle, bounce and hydro pump. This completely changes the usability of magikarp by allowing it to keep splash. While most regard it as a useless move it can give the player up to *four* points of cuteness, which is by far the most points it can attain in the cute appeal. While it is still not a typical choice it creates a multi-use magikarp build for contest, competitive, and casual play. I'm against the addition of five moves because it ruins the useless novelty magikarp holds by giving it too much power.
@@jenniferlee6333 I was joking since it doesn't actually change anything with Magikarp because they're still incredibly useless, but those are good points.
Who knows maybe having a 5 moveslot would be very beneficial for Unown's viability.
how would unown benefit from that
@@teethpilled3894 More Room for hidden power
@@teethpilled3894 it would gain 1.25 times more hidden power per unown creating a better unown:hidden power ratio, thus moving it from PU, and most likely being banned to Ubers, or even Anything Goes. Hope this helps!
@@owithalineybutitsupsidedow923 that's really not a surprise. That's a legendary we're talking about according to the anime
@@owithalineybutitsupsidedow923 isn't it in ZU? The tier below PU?
"Let me know about how the tangents are"
Unedited Wolfey: Gives a 20 minute pre-battle discussion in a Poke Center revolving heavily around bagels.
Me: Yeah 😎👍
Now the real question becomes "What about a 3rd type?"
Or in a similar vein, dual type attacks. Which flying press already is so this one is less out there i suppose
If they add a 3rd type, Wolfe will have his work cut out for him making best/worst type combo tier list videos 😅
I enjoyed dual typing a lot in the trading card game. Maybe we could have it for a generation or two, just like mega-evolution, z-moves etc.
Three types would be interesting to see. Closest thing we have to that right now is Dhelmise thanks to its ability essentially giving it STAB on a third type ⚓
How would dual type moves work for something like Greninja and Protean? Would it gain the dual typing too? That could be terrifying.
@@caldw615 If flying press is anything to go by, it'll have a default single type.
Personally, I think having a few more multi-function moves like Pollen Puff would be interesting. Maybe a move that lowers attack on the enemy, but raises attack when used on an ally? Something like that.
Why not a healing move like this?
Beating the damage out of your allys.
@@MouldMadeMind Heal Pulse, but it hurts your allies. 👌
@@MouldMadeMind isn't that just a regular damaging move
@@MouldMadeMind Sooo... Its just Pollen Puff
@@MouldMadeMind Do you mean you damage your ally and heal your ally for a % of damage like giga drain etc?
I mean, one way of balancing it could be to have a 5th move be limited to a held item like Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves were. You'd be sacrificing your held item for an extra move.
thats not a bad idea at all
It's a cool idea, there would have to be some serious limitations on it probably via it having some kind of drawback and/or seriously limiting what moves could be learned with it otherwise it would just be the best item in the game and you would run into some of the same issues Wolfey was describing. Still could be super cool though! Especially if it could even grant access to moves they didn't normally learn.
This would have to be the cost. If it wasnt tied to a held item, Zacian C would stomp the entire metagame when home comes out. If it has to hold a useless item to get that slot, Zacian-C can't use it, since it has to hold Rusted sword.
Oh, like rings that give you certain abilities like an elemental spell! Yeah, I think that would not only be a good balance, but it would be very cool to be able to further customize your pokemon, if only a little bit.
That would definitely be fun. In competitive, no item dupes would heavily restrict this.
There’s actually a more extreme version of this in the anime-the champion’s Dragonite in the Orange Islands uses roughly ten moves over the course of the match. As you’d expect, this gives it a severe advantage.
Somehow he lost
The ten moves was even specifically done by the episode's writer to make this Dragonite "seem" unstoppable.
Aside from the great analysis on a 5th move, this is probably the best explanation of the nuances in competitive Pokémon I’ve seen
Wolfey content really firing on all cylinders lately. Feel like it's improved leaps and bounds in the last year (not to say it wasn't good before, but loving the educational/theorycrafting edited style of videos!)
Man I never knew Wolfe made a hand-raised pie to take the 2016 World Championship. Strategic move to have the pie perfectly placed to cartoon float your opponents away from their devices!
Jesus loves you ❤
This reminds me of a concept that me and my friends thought of that was “What if Pokémon could have all of their abilities at once? How would it change certain Pokémon?”
This got brought up when one of my friends stated that according to the game’s lore, bronzong should be heatproof while also levitating to move, therefore having both abilities.
see pokemon mystery dungeon for a decent example.
Potentially broken if the two abilities it has are amazing. Trash if either abilities are Meh, or the two abilities contradict each other (Riolu with Steadfast plus Inner Focus. Ability combo being trash)
But the real question is would Neutralizing Gas on wheezing take away its own Levitate
You like saaaaand
I really like this idea. It complements another idea of pokemon being able to hold 2 items, as long that one of its items be a berry. This would open room for GF to invent a lot more of pokemon species-specific items, many combining with said pokemon's own abilities.
Poor Delibird and its redundant abilities, hahahah
(Insomnia and Vital Spirit)
@@jirehtheprovider Balancing potencially ability combos or contradictions could open opportunity for Gamefreak to improve lots of older abilities.
Say,
make Magma Armor pokemon immune to Ice-type damage and halve Water Damage in addition to its normal effects;
make Ice Body raise the pokemon's defenses during hail, instead of only recover HP;
give pokemon with Poison Point a 30% chance of scatter Toxic Spikes everytime it is hit by contact;
make pokemon with Damp deal more damage with water-type moves, receive less damage from fire type moves, but take more damage from grass type moves...
....stuff like that. Make classic abilities more useful
I think that 4 moves is enough to keep the strategy of a moveset stable enough to predict but usually leaves one unpredictable move based on the number of turns people tend to get per Pokémon.
i feel like a cool thought experiment could be what if each type got access to a unique benefit in comparison to others. Like fighting types getting a 5th move while bug get access to second item and maybe electric get priority on stab. Would be a really interesting way to consider which Pokemon gets added to your team via this unique potential to another from whatever their typing is, also in order to not over look single type Pokemon either only the primary typing would provide the benefit of said bonus effect or the sole type provides a stronger boost related to their initial benefit.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, always wished they would implement something like that. For a series that revolves around canonical monotype trainers so often, there sure isn't any real benefit to it.
I think it should apply only to the mono types, would make them much better, duo types have better coverage and more stab moves by default, monotypes are usually weaker. Would also be a chance to introduce more mono type flying pokemons, or change some existing ones.
I like that, and because I'm bored, here is what benefit I would give to every Type.
Normal: 33% Extra-STAB-Bonus and Stamina cost reduction to Normal-Typ moves (There is a Stamina-System replacing PP in my dream-headcanon-Pokemon)
Fire: Burn immunity/ Frostbite and Frost resistance
Water: Exhaustion immunity (Exhaustion would affect Stamina causing it to deplete faster)
Grass: Sleep immunity
Elektro: Paralysis immunity/ If swapped out, recovers much faster from lovered Initiative (Stats changes don't disappear immediately when a Pokemon gets swapped out but rather slowly return to normal if it's removed from the battle for enough turns)
Flying: Entry Hazard immunity/ Increase Dodge-Rate against attacks that can aim at multiple targets.
Rock: Flinch immunity/ If swapped out, recovers much faster from lowered Def/Sp. Def
Bug: Confus Immunity
Ice: Frostbite and Frost Immunity/ Burn resistance
Ground: Paralysis immunity/ can once per battle protect its held item from attacks like Thief, Knock Off or Trick.
Poisen: poisen immunity/ If hit by an absorption move, the non-Poison-Type enemy would receive damage instead of recovering HP
Fighting: Force switch immunity/ if swapped out, recovers stamina faster.
Ghost: Trapping immunity
Dark: Prevent enemies from swapping out via moves like Baton Pass or U-Turn
Psychic: Allows to see enemies held Item and active ability
Steel: Poisen Immunity
Fairy: Attract Immunity/ all enemies stats lowered by 5% if from opposite gender or if the Fairy-Pokemon is Genderless, this only affects genderless enemy Pokemon.
Dragon: Very slight resistance to all status conditions/ If swapped out, recovers much faster from lowered Atk/Sp.Atk
@@amigomorton7654 Most of these are either in the game already, or are covered by a specific ability
@@Paladin09 I know, just wanted to have a completed list.
If Pokemon had 5 moves, that would make Pokemon who are naturally limited by four moves absurdly broken (Ex: Mega Metagross, Mega Medicham, Garchomp just to name a few :)
What if the requirements for a 5th move are that it can only be TM moves, and its a held item, so mega evolutions cant do it since they already holding megastone.
@@Slayer8957 Well it will still be very hard to balence
@@Slayer8957 the Devs even said in an interview that they tested giving Pokemon 3, 5, 6, and even 8 move slots. But chose 4 because that's the most balanced amount of move slots for competitive play
@@ultrawinggaming9764 Testing move slots sizes for sword and shield with dynamax and gmax moves is not a good test case. Dynamax has to be one of the most broken mechanics in any generation, and having more move slots would obviously make it more broken. Having more than 5 move slots should be tested barebones with just abilities and items, no other gimmicks.
Toxapex gonna be moooore annoying in singles
I was thinking about this exact scenario for a while now, and the solution that I believe works best is to create a held item that allows for a fifth move to be used. A more practical Z-Crystal, in a sense.
Might have to limit the item to one per team, or things could get out of hand. It could also be an item (or ability!) exclusive to a certain Pokemon.
Also, while I'm brainstorming here, would be interesting if you could get a 5th move by sacrificing a move from another mon on the team. Doubt that would work out competitively, but it could be fun as a novelty game mode
@@quadZ_z I think a better way to go about it would be to make it work a bit more like TMs, except they straight up give a pokemon that extra move while held (using them on a pokemon would still work the way it does now). A lot of what made Z-Crystals (and Dynamax) awkward was they were powered up moves already on the pokemon's list. I think this would actually be a good way to bring back HMs in particular, and that way the moves don't have to be made 'EXTRA SPECIAL' to be worth using in the first place. Surf and Waterfall being made into HMs again would be a huge buff to water pokemon though. It doesn't solve the one-per-team clause, but that can be explicit during online battles, while in-game you can have as many as you want.
Another option might be a held item that lets certain (any?) pokemon with an exclusive move use those moves, since exclusive moves already exist. I think it would be a problem for Incineroar though, since Darkest Lariat is already good. But that way you could focus on empowering those moves for underpowered pokemon if needed.
I’ve had the idea of allowing TMs function as a one time move when used as a held item, so maybe we could have something like that
@@yeon_ster But that would make it no different from Z-crystals. The only difference would be that you don't have a one-time nuke, making it kind of useless in the long run. It think limited PP should be taken into consideration. Somewhere between 5-10 PP.
@@Strixer-gk2kz No, it would be a one-time utility boost. it would allow more coverage or more support moves that are completely apart from what the mon's set is. It would be a bad idea IMO, but definitely it wouldn't be "useless". Imagine getting to SD on lando without having to waste a moveslot on SD, for example. Absolute insanity.
18:26 Behemoth Blade 10% Accuracy
Yes, let’s make Zacian balanced by making Behemoth Blade Focus Blast!
lol, I missed that one
Metal Claw is now viable
@@G3drummer so did Zacian
Nah focus blast is less than 10 if u ask me
@@oceanman1999TAKE MY LIKE AND LEAVE
Now, a 5th move slot would be a pretty cool ability.
Maybe for a smeargle regional evolution
I’ve been following your channel for like three years and it’s only gotten better and better. It’s shocking to me that so many people aren’t subscribed, but on the flip side it’s awesome you’re getting so much visibility!
I'm one of those nasty viewers who don't subscribe.
My reason being I was hugely into competitive singles back in Gens 4 and 5, but Pokemon was taking a huge chunk of time out of my life I needed to focus elsewhere.
I don't subscribe so I won't be pulled back in. I get the recommendations later, which is fine. Might be a dumb reason, but I really don't want to get back into competitive pokemon. It does still interest me though, of course.
@@ddlc_monikajust checking in have you been able to make a work/life balance change in your life yet? or are you still fasting from pokémon?
I think a Pokemon with an ability to have 5 moves would be interesting competitively, but every pokemon having 5 moves would be a nightmare.
I mean we do have that. And cramorants gulp missile is difficult to get the most out of and that’s not even going into how it sizes up against other Pokémon that exceed it
Cramorant was just designed badly. What even are those disappointing base stats?
Loved the Arceus: Legends Agile/Strong set up. Made catching things so much easier. Didn't feel required to have someone with False Swipe around at all times.
9/10 It would change competitive so much, sweepers get another coverage move, you don't have to chose between an offensive or defensive set as much with the move pool at least, makes walls so much more annoying because they can heal, toxic, set rocks, damage and some other utill etc etc etc
3:36 your “I will improve until I deserve it” add on to the speach was kind and genuine and so surreal that it DESERVES a sub.
You got mine bud, keep up the good work
Wolfey: What if pokemon could learn 5 moves?
Z-Moves: *Am I a joke to you?*
From my initial reaction, it would make it wayyyy more unpredictable, cause each offensive mon could learn an extra coverage move.
or even a setup move on top of 4 attacking moves
Pseudo-legendaries like Dragonite, Tyranitar, Metagross, Garchomp, Hydreigon, Goodra, Kommo-o, and Dragapult
Legendaries like Mewtwo, Zapdos, Terrakion, Landorus-T, Zacian, Urshifu, and Dialga
Nihilego
Nidoking
Incineroar (who now has space for Drain Punch on top of it's current set)
Rillaboom (who now has space for Superpower or High Horsepower of your choice, on top of it's current set)
Tsareena (who would have both U-Turn and Protect)
Blastoise (who may even save space for Shell Smash again on top of it's support options like Yawn and Fake Out)
Greninja (i don't have anything to say)
Cinderace (look above)
Ursaluna
i could go on and on as long as i want
and another, mons that are bad (partially) because of their movepools will be even worse in comparasion
The animation makes these types of videos so fun to watch, also really good script writing. Great job!
Honestly bro, coming from somebody who used to take pokeman far too seriously, your videos and content have been such a treat. You are well spoken and vastly educated about the subject, and your wildly enjoyable to watch. I don't know if I'm ready to dive back into competitive pokemon, but watching your videos has been awesome, and has definitely got me back into pokemon as a whole. I hope you keep making great content, and have fun doing it 😁
Groudon with DRAGON CLAW.....That's a twist not even M. Night Shyamalan would see coming.
Before I watch any further in the video, I'm going to say that the 5th move concept would change the competitive scene in an unhealthy way. This is kinda more from a singles standpoint because that's just the format I'm most familiar with. The biggest issue I see is with stall. Having 5 moves opens up a lot more room for stall teams to consolidate their roles allowing for an even more terrifying wall. The terrible thing about that is regular attacking moves don't necessarily benefit from this change as much as status moves do. Yeah, you can add one more coverage move, but in reality most viable pokemon can already cover most of their bases with 4 moves. You could also set up more boosts, but that's kinda useless in the face of an unaware Quag or Clefable of which most stall teams carry at least one usually. But imagining a Clefable with Wish, Protect, Moonblast, Toxic, and Teleport sounds like a living nightmare to me. Let alone a whole team with that calibur of stalling capability. Z-moves were a lot different then that, because you could only use them once per battle, they required taking up a whole held item to do so which is pretty intense, and they had very limited capabilities in what they could do. You also had to meet very specific requirements for certain special Z-moves as well.
I think the tangents enhanced the experience as it allowed for a deeper level of understanding by letting the viewer see your thought process. All and all great video. Keep doing what you’re doing.
QOTD: 10 This actually changes everything. Insane coverage, set ups, self sustain on sweepers
This was incredibly put together, and your tangents were actually quite helpful it giving thorough and complex situations to draw from when breaking down points. Also I think your ideas of legends “style” moves making their way to main games would be very cool and interesting. Landing fire blast much more often but it’s a 100 base move, or hitting scald less but it’s a 100-110 base move. Really interesting
Nidoking : being able to have 5 moves ?...
You know what ? Lets crush some walls
Idea: a pokemon can have 5 moves but:
-staying certain amount of turns in battle, for each turn a bar will fill, and once is full you can use your 5th move once, then the process repeats
-The 5th move will always have 3 to 1 pp depending of the move
-Only a selected group of moves can be selected to be the 5th move, in that way to prevent too op movesets
This is very creative and should be looked into
Might be cool for a spinoff honestly
So here’s a low maintenance version of this idea: make protect not a move. Rather, it would be an action that each Pokémon can take. It’s like having a 5 move, but with much less variance.
Kinda like how in the show they can tell their Mon to dodge as an action but it doesn't always work. But still a lot of pokèmon that run protect normally would just pick a different core move, essentially creating the same problem
well, landorus-t was specifically called out as being so much worse if it could have protect. i think that it’s definitely not as bad as allowing a full extra move, but it’s still able to cause a lot of problems
Maybe as a 'Brace' action? Like you give up your ability to attack, but reduce damage by say 75%. Maybe add in some moves that 'Break' via Strong Style like in Legends Arceus or moves like Hyper Beam could 'Break' but they are stalled for a turn or reduce speed, but give it to everyone like a Z move? IDK... I feel like this would make the Stall section of the game overpowered, but it would make some interesting plays here and there...
@@Hazel-xl8in and zacian too. We’ve all seen the same video. :)
I just thought it was an interesting idea that wouldn’t function exactly the same from a mechanical perspective.
It would affect choiced sets very differently than a fifth move, for instance. It would favour durability so games could be a little longer and it wouldn’t make it as much of a a guessing game as a fifth move (though I think that tournament play should reveal sets before the game).
It also doesn’t have to function exactly like the protect move does. If we want it less luck base, it could be auto-fail if you used it last turn. If you want it more luck (I don’t) it could be just a 1 turn strong evasion boost (like the anime?).
I think 5 moves breaks singles way more than doubles with having almost no way to switch into an attacker (especially if mixed), still 5 moves moves breaks VGC
I'm really glad you adressed that match from 2019. Such a cool moment. Even though I was rooting for you I was happy your opponent won for keeping such a good tech hidden till the perfect moment. He really got you
Honestly think 5 moves would make Pokémon even harder game to play competitively. The only work around would be to have open team sheet in every possible situation but that would remove the information aspect of the game.
I love the editing in your videos. Really helps keep me (and I'm sure other people) engaged with the video. Little things like the togekiss spinning at 11:53 is just really small but put a smile on my face lol. Keep it up man!
Wolfey using that one picture he looks so damn fine in, it's not okey.
I would love to see it as part of an options menu. It wouldn’t be in competitive play but you could play around with it in the main story or against friends. Maybe keep it as part of a difficulty setting. Or maybe make it something you have to earn.
Swapping out learnset moves at a a Pokémon center, perhaps?
Makes sense to me. I’d love to be able to swap out moves it’s already learned.
I’d like Pokémon to have a “guard” option that you select instead of an attack / item. Guarding would function similarly to protect, but only block like 50%-75% of damage (and still prevent status).
It’s like a fifth move, so it might be a bad idea, but I always hate spending a move-slot on protect for my doubles Pokémon.
Seems VERY annoying for singles due to the prevalence of stall strategies. You'd also have to have PP for this guard mechanic as well, otherwise some matches could last literally forever. Protect is such a potent tool that even a lesser version of it is still powerful.
That would be Protect but broken, theres a reason Protect gets decreased chances of using it over and over
I think it could be interesting if a new held item was introduced that allowed the holder to use a generic move with something like 50 base power and you could choose the type & whether it’s special or physical somehow. Could be interesting since you could give maybe a sweeper an extra coverage move in exchange for something like a choice band
basically a Z crystal but you fill it with the Pokemon's secret power instead
Imagine Regieleki with a 50 base power Ice move. This would make it even stronger than it already is.
@@JohnJosephLabrier true but in exchange it wouldn’t get focus sash, so it can realistically only ko 1 Pokémon
@@the0therethan Or just make it an Ability but its movepool isnt insane and to solve that issue, it can just get Tinted Lens to always do neutral damage to not very effective
Cramorant
This video and your video on pokemon having an extra type are the most interesting pokemon-related videos I've watched, like ever.
I think a fifth move would be a really interesting ability
Lol, it would be, would it be an "once use thing" or it could use it as much as it wants?
The way you use examples from your experiences helps me understand better. It's not boring at all (to me at least) dw! Thank you!
Great vid, Wolfey. I would like to hear more on how a fifth move would benefit defensive pokemon like Dusclops and Tapu Fini less than their offensive counterparts. For example, wouldn't Dusclops' Pressure become more valuable with more PP to go through or Frisk when it's harder to get information? Or would pokemon like G-Weezing have an easier time if it could pack Destiny Bond to make the souped-up attackers think twice? Obviously there's some overlap with defense and support when both are associated with status moves to some degree, but I think the nuance is worth exploring.
I've played quite a bit of balanced and pure hackmons and let me tell you having to think about so much and never know what my enemy has in-store for me is downright maddening and makes it way less fun and I think a similar thing applies to giving Pokemon a fifth move
I have considered this question in the past and my conclusion was to add a 5th move that can only be an HM move. This would make the single player not rely on HM slaves or the dumb ride Pokemon. It would give competitive Pokemon a limited amount of extra moves to consider. Things like fly or dive could be used defensively as a semi protect and force the other player to consider what slot they are attacking into. Moves like waterfall could be used to trap a Pokemon but do little damage. I think the HMs would need to be tweaked to make them not super powerful/weak. Like Cut being a guarantee crit, or Fly/Dive having +1 priority(2nd turn as well) with lower damage to work as a semi protect. I did not consider this with Max moves in mind but you could make it so HM moves can't be maxed. Or you could just make it so competitive still restricts them to 4 moves.
I'm not far into the video but imagine a Snorlax with Hyper Beam, Rest, Sleep Talk, recover, and Snore. How toxic would that be?
QOTD: 8, being able to add another coverage move for a sweeper or staller seems like a HUGE deal to me
Oh, easily 10. There's a reason the term "four moveslot syndrome" exists. Even Pokemon that don't really _need_ the fifth move could always throw a coverage or utility move in there. It's _especially_ impactful in VGC, where a lot of Pokemon just have three moveslots + Protect. Finally, if nothing else, it would take even longer to PP stall an opponent.
Then again, this is all coming from someone who hasn't played competitively in years.
Great video! I do want to say that the rapidly panning shot at 13:15 of all the pokemon made me need to look away from the screen, it might have been vertigo (and it certainly could have just been me) but whatever it was I found it a little bit unsettling. If it was moving slower or the images were more zoomed out, maybe it wouldn't have wigged me out. I was on the fence about saying anything, but you asked for feedback at the end of the video.
You have a really interesting angle on pokemon that is entertaining and informative! Loving these videos
Another option I can think of is to have each move slot restricted by a cathegory.
Let's say, Charizard. It could learn:
- A special attack fire type move
- A special attack flying type move
- A physical attack any type move
- A defensive move
That way, you know your opponent's Charizard has 2 mandatory stab moves. And the coverage move has to be physical, so it may not hit that hard (or it would have less EVs on defense or something to compensate)
I don't know why, but 4 feels like the sweet spot of the number of moves.
Simplest explanation is that all aspects of Pokemon over decades was built around four moves. So that's the one that works best currently.
As an example: in a 3 move game, Pokemon likely would have been designed with stronger items or moves that do more things at once. In a 5 move game, the best moves of today would be weaker or the best abilities might not exist.
So you can't just change the central format of pokemon recklessly because the rest of the game would not work anymore due to being designed around 4 moves
If pokemon could learn 5 moves people would want a sixth 😂
My idea was something similar to what Legends Arceus did, with 1 variantion per move instead of 2 but you can choose what said variations are.
(possibly with some Pokémon having perks related to things they're supposed to be good at, like Hitmonchan getting to modify Elemental Punches with no drawbacks while other 'mons have to deal with some sort of drawback)
You made some very interesting points. I was really surprised that you said having five moves would make defensive Pokémon worse; I thought the opposite would be the case. Like having a defensive pokemon with 5 moves would just create a bunch of super-defensive Pokémon that are impossible to kill. Subscribed!
I think you approached this as well as one could. You gave a background as to why the topic is at hand, explained scenarios in which the topic affects and would affect current and future meta games, and delivered a concise, educated conclusion as to why the topic would not work from a balance standpoint. Well done. Well organized.
Real UA-camrs forget the intro. I am so glad that the intro is back.
Instead of accuracy, if a strong or agile move changes the priority of the pokemon in the battle, would be a really cool and interesting mechanic to use
Your tangent or the part from the Tournament was the best part, more examples from tournaments ❤
'You can see some of my accomplishments on screen here'
*Hates Xerneas*
Absolutely howling 😂😂😂
I have a fan script for a Pokemon game, and one of its many gimmicks is that Pokemon can know six moves at once, but can only use four per battle. Probably not great for competitive, but that's kind of the case for a lot of it.
Honestly surprised to see the Hand-raised pie guy talk about Pokemon, but I’m here for it.
This makes defense in singles so much better. Imagine stall mons with more moves to stall your moves with.
I wonder what competitive would look like with legendaries removed. It seems like way too many legendaries set the tempo for the most common tiers in both VGC and Smogon rulesets
Legendaries are in Pokemon to make the player feel super powerful and special in the story by having a one-of-a-kind awesome Pokemon. They don't thematically make sense in multiplayer, and their original purpose no longer applies, because in competitive play you need balance over power fantasy.
I don't even use them in the story, because I prefer to win without leaning upon an obviously more powerful species. It's just more satisfying.
Pokémon games at max power: give each game mechanic to every Pokémon.
Dynamax, mega evo, tera, and agile/strong moves are enabled for every Pokémon.
Boom: new game for the super fans of the games.
Then give it a full National Dex that lets you catch all the previous mythicals
I’m curious, what if instead of an additional move, Pokémon got an extra ability (maybe either 2 standard or 1 standard + 1 hidden?) We already have that in Calyrex so how would other Pokémon benefit from it, if at all? Would giving weaker Pokémon better abilities and stronger Pokémon weaker abilities balance out the game more?
Would love to hear your thoughts and how it would affect the competitive meta
imagine azumarill with both huge power and sap sipper
No, we don't need Moxie-Intimidate Gyarados and Salamence. lmao
@@TheSpartanS196 why not? It’s not like those two are even that meta right now. Or if it’s too strong, give them their mega abilities instead (mold breaker/aerilate)
Magic Guard-Unaware Clefable
Sand Stream-Sand Force Hippowdon
Oblivious-Thick Fat Mamoswine
Inner Focus-Multiscale Dragonite
Guts-Defiant Obstagoon
Sturdy-Analytic Magnezone
Water Absorb-Unaware Quagsire
Effect Spore-Regenerator Amoonguss
Sturdy-Contrary Shuckle
Magic Guard-Tinted Lens Sigilyph
😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳
I’ll give learning five moves a nine out of 10 because I would change the game forever and usually have trouble picking between two moves like for example a good coverage or recover, but if I had that extra slot I could get both
i think the most "effective" way to apply it would be as a "gimmick" like z-moves, so the pokemon would be forced to wield the object, and will only be able to use the "fifth move" once, it would make it really risky but also really interesting, in general i love gimmicks that play with the rules of the game itself like teracristalization changing types
While 5 moves would buff all the strong Pokémon right now there are some examples of not op moms becoming powerful with this due to very few/no weaknesses. Eelektross would probably become very strong as nothing could “cover” it and it would be able to cover any resistances such as ground with the extra added move.
The problem is that Eelektross doesn't quite... have the strength to make it work, while its got an amazing defensive typing, its still got a few weaknesses, and many mons would just punch through on dint of sheer power still
There's definitely some support mons that would go crazy at reducing the four slot syndrome, but most pokemon that are relying on providing damage would just see their gaps get worse, not better
I'm what I like to call "casual competitive." I make the best shot at competing using my favorite Pokémon. So that's why I need to have every Pokémon in the game to get the maximum enjoyment.
I think "Protect" should just become an action you can do during a turn. The menu should just have options "Attack, Protect/Defend, Pokémon, Bag, etc."
Just make Protect something that all Pokémon can just do, as a core game mechanic rather than a move.
I have thought about this and I've been wanting 5 moves for a while, but I also realize it can be broken... so I came of with an idea... that moves should take up "Move Slots" example... moves like Recover and Protect... should take up 2 slots and moves like Whirlpool should take up like half a slot or something. Basically like having combined PP like GameFreak has thought of in the beta... moves were supposed to share a universal PP, and stronger moves will take more PP.
Something like perhaps, the Command Deck in Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep? Where a few of the "strongest"* moves took more space in your build
Balancing move value based on how it impacts your variety is interesting, but I feel like it'd be really awkward from a casual perspective, and increase decision paralysis when getting your Water Pulse cost you two of your weaker moves
*strongest is debatable, KH BBS is a terribly balanced game
10 - definitv 10! It would start as a "Uh lets do funny shananigans" and slowly turn into "Oh my god what have we done"
1:58 I was not expecting to see my old copyright claim dodging Z-Move animation here.
If you could add a 5th move, balance it. One move has to target yourself (buff). One move must target an opponent without damage (debuff). The last three moves are your choice.
There's actually a fan made pokemon tabletop system in which pokemon are capped at 6 moves and can learn multiple abilities, along with rules to make weaker pokemon able to catch up
Lukewarm take: no 5th move, but make protect a battle action like "run" but make it so a pokemon can only protect once per battle, or maybe once each time it's sent out
4:23 I am genuinely curious as to what Pokémon would run that in any format, because it’s certainly one of the move sets of all time and I can’t even think of a Pokémon that gets all of those off the top of my head
I think a good addition to the game would be a new ability category that gives Pokémon a set 5th move. Here's an example: The Abra line gets "Genius," which will give a 5th move to each member of the line, which would be Confusion on Abra, Psybeam on Kadabra, and Psychic on Alakazam. This system makes ability swapping work well, and adds coverage value to the Pokémon who has the ability - at the cost that you know the stab move that Pokémon is running. Another example could be "Black-belt" on Mienchao and Mienfoo that gives one Jumpkick and the other High Jump Kick. I think using this as a 5th move option opens up a new idea of opportunity cost on these Pokémon. Wolfe mentions how giving up an item slot for an extra move is interesting, but I think doing the same with ability is much more volatile, since some Pokémon thrive with their ability choice. Pokémon that could be better with an additional move or Pokémon that could be more viable if they had more moves, would greatly benefit. I think this way would be more interesting to implement.
And what would happen if you trade a Pokémon from a earlier gen to a hypothetical game with 5 moves, give it a 5th move, and trade it back?
I actually had an idea for a Pokemon inspired game, and among many of the changes I've added, pokemon having 6 moves instead of 4 was one, but two of them HAVE to be STAB damaging moves. This is to 1. help players learn that STAB boosts are a thing and are very important, and 2. so that dual type pokemon don't use up half of their slots getting STAB moves for both of their types.
Why would people need to know STAB is a thing? Pokemon is an easy game anyways and VGC players already know the ins and outs of the game(regarding mechanics). Just curious why this is an issue.
1:48 I have a better reason why Alakazam should learn 5 moves. A POKéMON that can memorize anything. It never forgets what it learns--that’s why this POKéMON is smart. - pokemon yellow
Id say 8. I feel like the good mons would get better and bad ones would get better but the good ones get even better.
I think a fifth move might be appropriate if the rule is that only fully evolved Pokemon with a base total stat of 410 and less can get access to it
Anyone here after learning that the Mewtwo raid in 2023 has five moves and the fifth one was rest…. Thumbnail was basically spot on.
I think the tangents, while maybe distracting a little bit from the point you were making, was really interesting and happy that they were included.
I'd love playing against M. Venusaur with giga drain, toxic, protect, leach seed and toxic
Is that wolfe glicke? the guy who made a VERY good hand-raised pie????
The fact that a single move can shape a competitive game having 5 moves will break the game.
What if we went the other way?
Try a tournament with the rule that every pokemon must know Mimic.
You get three moves instead of four, and might can exploit a good move from your opponent if you can find time to Mimic.
Alakazam’s IQ is so high because it watches Rick and Morty
I imagine the Wolfey from a paralell universe explaining why pokemons with 4 moves would be bad
As someone who enjoys watching competitive Pokémon, but doesn’t already know everything when it comes to the games, I enjoy when you tie your points into specific gameplay scenarios like the dragon claw Groudon example. I’ll admit that my layman opinion when presented with the possibility of a fifth move was that a rising tide lifts all boats. After considering your analysis though I think that some boats are already too high. I think you did a good job explaining. Keep it up.
If Pokémon could have five moves, Whitney's Miltank would have added Defense Curl to her moveset of Stomp, Rollout, Attract, and Milk Drink.