Why I refused to swear an oath to the King | Labour MP Interview
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Labour's Clive Lewis was recalled to the House of Commons after refusing to swear an Oath of Allegiance to the British monarch, and their heirs and successors.
He was told under 19th Century legislation, he would be counted as "deceased" and a by-election would be held in his constituency to replace him if he failed to re-do his oath.
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I personally think the oath needs to be changed to focus the MPs to focus on serving the country and it's peoples, not the crown and themselves.
You mean to peole like Boris, sunak is richer than the king
Agreed
@user-oo6ef4ho4r i really hope that you get that “mbe” for justifying the existence of an undemocratic institution by claiming it is the lesser of 2 evils(!) 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
You mean all these fools that are more interested in the disputed land than their own constituency.
PolJoe continueing their tradition of having a poor audio mix in a podcast, well done for keeping the tradition strong guys
yeah I think at this stage it's just a "bit" they do, are those microphones made from painted coffee cups, but fancy ones with a wind shield instead of a lid, why do you even need a wind shield like that indoors, oh I forgot "it's a bit"
At least they gave Clive the better mic 🤷
No exaggeration - I produce cleaner audio for my livestreams, and I use the microphone on my phone. I assume it's intentional at this point - but that doesn't mean it's not *also* lazy and disrespectful.
These are the types of traditions we need to conserve. Progressives would take things too far and, in trying to improve audio quality, would end up losing what makes the podcast great.
To repeat what I've told Nerd2 below: "Who gives a stuff apart from a nerd like you? Anyway I could hear Clive fine!"
What always gets me is both the houses run on "historic" legislation while telling everyone else around they need to "prepare for the future/change" it's another hypocrisy... Like our House of Lords still having the stupid entanglement of Church and State.
The "entanglement of church and state" within the house of lords doesn't seem to be much of a hinderance to the passing of progressive, egalitarian policies though does it? Contrast that with the republic that is the US, which is supposed to have separation of church and state, and yet god and religion infiltrates almost every aspect of American politics daily.
It gets you that a country is built on laws that were created historically? 🤔
Good for him! I love my country but I am certainly not a monarchist.
I've never really listened to Clive Lewis before but I really like his knowledge, and understanding. I don't know much about his politics, yet, but will certainly look more into what he thinks and says. Nice guy.
Yes! It's time we all grew up and left the woo-woo and magic kingdoms, to serve the people who matter!
Like Clive, I joined the Army Reserve and had to swear allegiance to the monarchy despite being against it. It is just part of the game, I am not serving the king I am serving for the people of my country.
That’s true but it makes the oath itself useless. It creates conflict because you know you have already broken oath so it means nothing at this point. So when put under oath in other situations, even if being under oath meant something to you before (i know it doesn’t mean much to many ), it would mean next to nothing now. Game after game. Getting sick of it really.
Beautifully put Clive. It very much feels like we’re living in the Stone Age. It’s all so preposterous in 2024. You will always be on the right side of history.
Destroying cultures isn't being on the right side of history, it's being on the destructive tyrannical force of the international coalition of henchmen. If a people cannot unite, they are weak. This is why they are doing this
That was beautifully done by Clive Lewis because it points to the idiocy of such an oath given the monarch is basically a tool of the Parliamentary system at this point. It is also another example of how you can protest such traditions respectfully and from within the government !!
Equally as wrong to have the bishops in the other place.
Yes indeed
Fabulous interview. Well done Clive. Very brave opening up this much needed discussion 👍👏👏👏
So you can only be an MP if you keep the monarchy going Wow. They have us bound and gagged in this democracy.
AS IT SHOULD BE!! COME INTO A COUNTRY AND BE A PART OF THE CULTURE!!! THAT is how democracy can continue!!!
@@cas3837 religious nonsense is not fucking culture. i do not believe in sky magic yet i am still british!
@cas3837 uh... dude, if the majority decides that the tradition needs to be nixed, then upholding that tradition is not protecting democracy.
In fact, anything that refuses the possibility of change (I.e traditionalism) by way of a mandate of the masses is, by its nature, contrary to the aims of democracy.
Hope that clears up your little definitional misunderstanding about what democracy and tradition are.
I would argue that our present structure of government with the monarch as technical head of state is a structure that allows us to have democracy. We need to have some structure in order for people to be in positions of power without having constant fighting and violence to keep that power.
If we didn't have a monarch it is human nature for someone to come along to try to be that top ruler.
A number of countries have lost their king and been ruled by a dictator shortly after.
France- Napoleon. Russia- Lenin. Germany-Hitler. BTW once they were in power, they expected loyalty.
@@mrc391 not a single mote of that was relevant.
1. "We need to have some structure in order for people to be in positions of power" This is irrelevant. Structures other than monarchies exist.
2. "If we didn't have a monarch it is human nature for someone to come along and try to be that top ruler" This is why a system of representative democracy with checks and balances, and a government that can be held accountable is needed, not a monarch who is outside of the jurisdiction of the court, and thus outside the reach of culpability.
3. "A number of countries have lost their king and been ruled by a dictator shortly after" yes, and a number of people die by drowning after eating ice cream every year.
Is this because frozen dairy causes one to not be able to swim, or is it perhaps because the likelihood of eating icecream is higher if one is at the beach?
Similarly, Dictatorships rely on a disgruntled public to get into power. Monarchies breed disgruntled populaces, and as such they plough the soil for dictators to sow their seeds of discontent and misdirected hate.
Your second rate oratory does not impress me.
I had a lot of respect for the Monarchy when 'our' Queen was still with us, King Charles is nothing like his mother, Queen Elizabeth.
The King and the rest of the Monarchy no longer cares about 'our' people or country.
President Higgins is not merely "a poet". He was a human right activist, a scholar, a poet, a socialist, and a politician before he become the president. He also has the largest mandate since the founding of the Republic.
And he talks an extraordinary amount of piffle with remarkable eloquence.
@@vinlennox7658😂 we love him though
@@Cogmania lol well im not of his political persuasions tbh so i really don't
@@vinlennox7658....we're better than you, and we know it.
@@didyeaye2481 lol good for you.
When I was younger the constituency I live in had a great Labour MP John Garrett. The next Labour MP we had was Charles Clarke who I really didn't like. Clive really has done his best for us in Norwich South and I'm always happy to vote for him, then, now and in the future
I agree with him 100% . I dont want to be a subject of any medieval construct of some priviledged family. Its ridiculous and outdated.
Who said you had to want anything?
100% agree with him
In my younger days I understood the monarchy, and it didn’t bother me. It was history, it was honor, it was duty. Now I’m older and I think the monarchy is finished, and the reason why isn’t malicious. It’s because no one cares anymore. People are selfish, not because they’re bad people. Our entire civilization has changed. Love of the King is no longer true. Again, no one is to blame for this. I’m Canadian. I fully expect Canada to become a republic in my lifetime.
Need a democratic upper house too, without lords or bishops
A Terrible, pointless and expensive idea.
Definetley agree with getting rid of the hereditary lords and the bishops - but it shouldn't be another elected house. I think it would be great to have meritocratic house of lords appointed by an independent commission. So doctors to advise on health legislation, lawyers to advise on justice, nutritionists to advise on food standards etc...
The knee-jerk reaction is always to make the HOL an elected house - but the main complaint I and most other have about this country is the that the elected pollicitcans are often incompetent. So, the last thing I want is MORE incompetent elected politicians. It would be good to have experts advising the politicians, which would mesh really well with the lords' current role as scrutiniser of commons legislation.
@@arkan2833 and we know how easy it is for popularists and other miscreants to pull the wool over much of the electorate.
@@arkan2833 It should be a Technocratic house. with representatives collated from, Unions, to Royal societies, banks and Industry rep orgs (e.g. BMC).
An elected lords is as you not, very pointless. It simply adds costs and dilutes power for the sake of it.
@@tisFrancesfault You mean like the monarchy?
Not my microphone
Love podcasts, hate audiophiles.
How long till Starmer finds a reason to fire this bloke, I wonder...
was thinking of the same
He is stupid! He is going against a Royal institution like Diana did!
Stating the oath like that, it's a miracle he was allowed to remain in the house.
He certainly upset eva
She seemed really angry when he dared criticise farage
“ IF IT ONLY WAS OUR COUNTRY, BUT IT IS NOT! KING AND COUNTRY, PHOO! 🤡”
Not my king either. The whole thing is ridiculous. The people elected the MP not the Royal Family. It’s his constituents that he should make a promise to.
Well done Clive xxx
Always said its his government not ours! Good for this MP! Its should be an Oath to the people of the country!
Why swear an oath to unelected head of state .most people swear an oath to the country. Is this british democracy swearing an oath to one family. Tax payers keep them in luxury I think that's enough.
Tbf, if you are a Monarchist you would, in some respects be closer to a global peace and unity. That is, swearing an oath to a country is nationalist and exclusionary; where as to swear to the King, you are far more an internationalist.
@@tisFrancesfault how many of these kings have sent their folk to war ? global peace ,,, cmon , not whilst monarchies exist , they willjust make us fight in another rich mans war ,
@@tisFrancesfault Monarchs through the ages have been famous for their peace and love to all man (and woman) kind!😂
Read the three Emperors about the three mediocrities 😢George V, the Czar and Kaiser who plunged us into WW1 for no apparent reason!
The uk has never been a true democracy. In fact it's more properly described as a Plutocracy or recently under the tory party a simple kleptocracy.
Us plebs must be subservient to something
Swearing in process should be modernised.
This guy is what this country needs; not Kings, not Queens, not Dukes, not Duchesses, not Earls, Barons or Baronesses, Viscounts or Princes and Princesses....Ordinary people is what this people need. Well done, the people of Norwich. Love from Liverpool. xx.
he is a disgrace
@@elmonte-xt2wd Why?
Great respect for Clive
Being head of the Church of England, and God's representative on earth, King Charles will doubtless be aware of this Bible verse:
But above all, my brothers, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath, but let your “yes” be yes and your “no” be no, so that you may not fall under condemnation.
James 5:12
As an American, I would prefer to swear to a king who lives and breathes rather than a constitution. Your head of state is trained in statehood, diplomacy, military, and various other parts of governance, unlike the president of the United States.
The President is a random person who received endorsement from large corporations.
I would also like to add I am a US Army Calvary Scout and Black 😂
I do miss badly tuned FM radios from the good old days. Thanks PoliticsJoe for keeping the memories alive
I support Clive wholeheartedly. In my fantasy world he is Prime Minister and Carol Vorderman is our democratically elected President.
Well done Clive. I salute you!!!
Charlie boy is NOT MY KING!
Like it or not he is your king if you are in the UK. This guy represents and area that loves the monarchy and is a military area that swears allegiance to the crown. He hasn't done himself any favours with this. His party has only just gotten in and he's spending far too much time on silly nonsense like this while his constituents struggle to even get a dentist. Get on with more important things than this old fluff.
@@Matty_Does_StuffI think that having principles must at some stage be a good thing.
@@Matty_Does_StuffI think that having principles must at some stage be a good thing.
@@Matty_Does_Stuff Charlie boy not my effing king and never ever will be! I know Clive Lewis and he's a very decent person who is much more concerned about others and far less self serving and/or greedy than the prat with a golden crown! The Clive Lewis I know will be doing much more than spoilt, elitist Charlie boy has every done to improve the lot of ordinary people...
@@sharkarris I don't care for Charles but to say Lewis has done more than Charles is beyond laughable. You may want to look into just how much King Charles does for charities across the world.
Don’t disagree if you wanna swear to you constituents you should maybe be able to.
I do think it’s more about tradition but that’s up for debate but thinking if we change to a republic and and having a none political HOS is ridiculous it’ll never happen not in this country we need PR we need restructuring of HO Lords but the whole point of the monarch is to remove the powers that a leader shouldn’t have I don’t want a Macron in the UK
This guy is great he speaks the truth there should be more of the truth spoken about the monarchy etc I will listen to this guy more often good show thank you❤😮😅😊
Well said Clive. I can’t agree more. I want to live in a Great Britain that represents Scotland, England, Wales and N. Ireland and all of its people. Not this strange royal cult from a bygone era.
I admire Clive Lewis for his views and his stance. He has succeeded in highlighting a constitutional absurdity and the unwritten power and sway that is still held by the monarchy in this country.
It’s a ceremony … there is always someone who wants to be the centre of attraction
When you join HM Forces you swear allegiance to defend the monarch, ahead of the country. The tories similarly are concerned only with defending their party and self interest before the country. I hope Labour will prove able to defend the interests of the country and its citizens ahead of ingrained corruption.
Not my king.
Ew, a Jacobite! D:
You don’t get to choose
@@thepepper191that’s the problem
Well, he is
I am choosing not to recognize him as such. So I confirm.... not my "king"
Well done Clive👍
So you made an oath, a promise so what? You’re an MP the whole lot of you make promises to the British public every day and then break them constantly. None of you would know what the truth was even if it came up and hit you. So what’s your issue, just break your promise, or “oath”, it goes with the territory of being an MP, you know, total lack of integrity. I’m not singling you out (you did that yourself) I’m just stating my distain of all MPs and 99.9% of politicians at any level.
Good to see the dreadful audio quality back where it belongs 🤪
You really do need to get out a bit more.
@@stevedavidson666 Hey, it's cult. Don't mock it. If they fix it, we'll know they've been bought.
Love podcasts, hate audiophiles.
Adding this guy on Social media. Good on him!
I think it's wonderful :) hands up to this guy. He has my respect
Voted for Alice McDonald in Norwich and we got her , Clive has done wonders for Norwich
I’m a monarchist and I agree that MPs shouldn’t serve the king they serve the country, the king should be a representative of the country (wealth+power which the British royal family definetly holds) but the king works for the country and its representation, the MPs should work for the people and they should remain separate always
i love him he’s my mp
Lucky chap
When he mentioned the House of Lords, I was reminded of a conversation I had with a friend a while back where we talked about reforming the House of Lords. Because neither of us thought it was a good idea to get rid of it entirely. We thought that if the House of Commons was Democratic, then the House of Lords should be Meritocratic. Filled with several people at the top of their fields. So for example if a bill on the environment came through, you might have someone at the top of their field in that area to be able to comment and lead the house on that particular subject. So that you would always have an expert available to scrutinise policy. I thought that was a good idea.
I also suggested that there should be a few seats for Religious leaders to represent the religion population. Just a few from the major religions in the country. So that would be those like Justin Welby and Zara Mohammed. I’m not personally for an entirely secular society and government. That may be my bias being religious. So I do think Religious leaders should have a small voice.
I think that would be an alright way to reform the House of Lords.
I absolutely love the idea of a meritocratic house of lords appointed by an independent commission! I don't think its brought up enough! The knee-jerk reaction is always to make the HOL an elected house - even though the main complaint I here in this country is that elected pollicitcans are incompetent (because they often are.) So why would they want MORE elected incompetent politicians? It would be good to have appointed experts advising the politicians, which would mesh really well with the lords' current role as scrutiniser of commons legislation.
I have to disagree about the religious representation though, that would go against the whole idea of meritocracy. Religious communities are represented in the commons, they shouldn't have their leaders appointed to the lords simply by virtue of them being religious. If we start appointing people based on identity or community affiliation, then we just have the house of commons mark 2 - which means even more incompetent policitans.
Definitely glad that other people are also think of this though! We need more competence in government!
@@arkan2833 Well at least when it comes to religious leaders. General Synod is Democratic at least. And the religious leaders are chosen based on merit. They are experts on their particular theology. And it would go all ways, including leaders of atheistic philosophy’s like Humanism. That’s how I see it at least. And with a house of many hundred of members. Having 1 or two from each major religion, they’re hardly gonna have a great deal of power, just some say. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. But again, I’m from the Church of England. I do have my biases.
Perfect under the sea style audio quality as always
Love podcasts, hate audiophiles.
Lewis is one of the few independent voices in Starmers Labour. I suppose my view of replacing the King is if we get a Trump or Orban figure as Head of State. Republicans can't guarantee that we won't.
Monarchists cant ensure we dont get an Andrew as king.
But you can vote them out in a true democracy. If you want a Kingdom then sack all the politicians and let Charlie run the country
Well said the man is right
I agree with Clive Lewis on this issue. Republic for the win, down with the monarchy. Meritocracy for the win.
Respect to this dude. Well happy that someone with these view is both speaking out and being so clear and informative. #republic #notmyking
I'm so enjoying the fact that UA-cam's algorighym decided to give me an ad for a tour of Buckingham Palace for this video.
It may come as a surprise, but wealth, privilege and power is hereditary. Even outside of the Monarchy.
Even if 1 person works their way out of poverty and into the rich and wealthy classes, their kids inherit that money, and their struggles are demonstrably reduced, providing much needed privilege of having a better starting point than someone else. Republics don't remove social classes, wealth, privilege or power, at best it just means that the wealthy actually have more power due to lobbying.
What would a Republic actually provide for us, that our current democratic system doesn't? If we abolish the monarchy, as some nations did, we would end up doing what they did, we would still end up having to pay them money, as the other nations did. Only this time it would be a complete expense and not a financial cost that sees incredible revenue returned.
Not much revenue is returned from the royals, they do just live off other people's money. Advantages of a Republic could be done without abolishing the monarchy but might be easier without them. One example is a well defined and codified constitution, preventing a power crisis the likes of Boris Johnson did with proroguing parliament. Another might be a simplified and more efficient governing body, by removing the lords' chamber altogether.
Some people still find some kind of cultural value from the monarchy and perhaps it is a source of stability for some people. On the other hand, I personally don't care to pay for their expenses, they should pay, they're not poor.
Queen bliar and the like
The idea of kings is an affront to humanity.
then you see Trump and what the Supreme Court just did.
Your comment is trash
I'm Norwich North, and I was incredibly proud of what you did initially and respect you reswearing in.
Let's hope Alice is morally driven as you are, Clive.
It's worth googling Charles Bradlaugh to see how MPs got the right to affirm if they were non-religious. They imprisoned him under Big Ben before eventually seeing sense and letting him affirm. I'm a monarchist, but I believe we need a choice available for republicans, in the same way we have an affirmation option for non-religious people.
King should just remove him
Charlie hasn't got the power.
@@batcollins3714 pretty sure he does
You mean the unelected, over-privileged head of the Windsor family? Why cant we just remove the Windsors instead?
Truly a man of conviction, rather than a soothsayer.more people need to stand up for what is right, good, and moral.
Don't be ridiculous. If he was a man of conviction he would have refused to take the oath at all and would have to give uo his £95, 000 a year job. Did he do that? of course he bloody didn't.
I feel like going "i will be loyal until you're overthrown and abolished" is kinda contradictory. Should just make a bill that allows republicans in protest not to swear.
I stand with Clive NOT MY KING
However, on learning he won't get paid unless he swears the oath. there he was queueing to pledge allegiance.
Just a publicity hound-up him.
Im fairly ambivalent about the monarchy but I'm yet to hear what practical benefit a republic would be to people's daily lives
On this, oath to the King, his personal belief don’t matter. He is not there because of himself. He is there because of the people who voted. If the people who voted him in want a king then he should swear that oath and not put this personal opinion all over it.
Came here a royalist. Left a royalist. Very happy to hear the discussion. Some really good points. ❤
My baseline is that I would rather have monarchist political elite than a modern-populist political elite.
I agree with his reasoning. The monarchy represents intuitionalised hierarchy. Visit Windsor Castle and it is visually thrust in your face. The castle is a place which represents the embodiment of state backed hierarchy and allegiance to a family through tens of millions of funding of and oaths of allegiance. But step outside the castle walls and walk down Windsor high street and you'll find numerous homeless people who have been abandoned by the state. The state backed haves and have-nots of British society all within a few metres of one another.
It should be to the king, citizens and country.
You shouldn't be a mp or politician if you can not take a basic oath.
Who wants politicians as kings and queens either.
"act as if you're dead" meaning in times past, you would have been killed for not swearing allegiance to the king and his family.
Clive Davis and I are far apart when it comes to several of his views. However he is correct, what he said he told the truth. I wish more people would listen to this and take it seriously. And this includes other members of pariliament no matter what party. Furthermore he is one of the most intelligent politicians ive ever seen .
Well Done - We need more Hero's like this giving HOPE to not to repeat our Imperialistic Past
Excellent. Thx.
The UK becoming a Republic would have huge cultural implications not just for this country but for the world. The idea that the world's foremost prominent monarchy could be dismantled by its own people would be a great sign of the way the world is shifting. It woukd give people hope the world over.
He should be brought up against the kings court.
Im happy England has a monarchy.
You can be happy but it's still undemocratic.
@@rocarolan2003 Britain is the most democratic country, you've just had an Election, so what is the big deal? He brings in more money to the UK in the form of tourism and has a celebratory position.
No he doesnt they lied to you.
I am not happy that England has a monarchy.
@@sarahleahB You have fallen for that old chestnut that they bring in tourism etc blah blah. Tourists come to the UK for the history, the pageantry and the culture not for King Charles and his ilk. Have you ever heard of a tourist that has actually met any of the Windsors? They are the biggest bunch of scroungers in the country and the sooner they are excluded from the public purse the better.
Clive seems cool. Why isn't he named in the title? 'Labour MP' feels a little anonymous
Your audio quality is gross.
Who gives a stuff apart from a nerd like you? Anyway I could hear Clive fine!
Love podcasts, hate audiophiles.
The Kings and Queens have represented and protected "your" constituents over millennia.
Yes he IS your king. Doesn't matter if you don't LIKE IT, that is still fact.
Moreover, it is especially true if you serve in His Majesty's Government.
If you don't want to take the oath don't run to be an MP.
We are not a Republic, we are a Constitutional Monarchy. If you want to live in a Republic move to France, see if you prefer it there.
The Monarch is the head of State, if you don't like the State don't run for Parliament.
You don't decide what the rules are.
Its what it is. Clive should step down! Its not about him!
We’re told we live in a democracy because some of us can choose who makes our decisions for us, but if we choose someone who doesn’t want to swear undying allegiance to the monarchy then that democracy is overturned. How is that a democratic system in any way?
at the end of the day he made an oath that he didnt believe in. this means he is prepared to lie and say what is needed to get power. personally i cant believe any of his words or promises because how can you be sure if he ever means them...
I do not like This MP
Taking an oath that is immoral does not hold you to that oath.
It should. If you think an oath is immoral, then don't take it. But once you've taken an oath abide by it. Law is much more important than subjective morality.
He doesn't have to take his seat. He could resign. I think the 90k+/y, great pension and rampant expenses programme is swaying him. 🤣
@@0w784g True. The oath may be immoral but the obscene salary and benefits all of a sudden becomes moral and acceptable. Hypocrisy, thy name is politician.
Content great, audio quality terrible.
Love podcasts, hate audiophiles.
I’m certainly no monarchist, and in the past I would have advocated for a presidential system, but when you look at the rise of autocracy globally and MAGA’s assault on democracy in the US, I feel increasing comforted by having a head of state with little power to abuse
Even though I am a monarchist, to be fair, that won't save anybody from authoritarianism by itself. After all Orban is technically not a head of state, they do have president. As well as stalin wasn't technically the head of ussr. Institutional integrity and civic culture can save the constitutional order, and in what context those institutions operate - not that important for the preservation of democracy, I suppose
@@user-xj6jj6cd7j that’s fair. I agree that it doesn’t prevent a party leader with authoritarian ambitions becoming prime minister (Boris was evidence of that, and possibly someone like Farage next time). I suppose the difference in the UK though is that the monarchy is so broadly popular that it’s hard for any elected politician to espouse dictatorial ambitions. The people will generally always view the monarchy more favourably than the PM and so won’t like some upstart who wants to position themselves above it
@@danrattigan96 yes, I agree with that, that is definitely a vital function of symbolic traditional institutions
@@danrattigan96we don't want your English/German/French King in Scotland thank you.
As an American, I would love to switch with you guys if I could 😂
Clive has had his 15 minutes of fame. Now he can go back to his well deserved anonimity.
Clive Lewis ought to be careful talking like this. The Labour party will jump on any excuse to push him out of the party.
He is your king. You live in the United Kingdom with a constitutional monarchy. It would not have been an issue if you were a Constitutional Republic, and there is no need for a monarch as the head of state.
I think that is pretty much what he said
I think republican movements over here could take a lot of lessons from those in places like Australia. Be civil, don't constantly launch scathing attacks on the royal family but instead just calmly make the case that the institution is outdated.
Funny that he was made to do it twice 😂
It's His Majesty's Government. If he doesn't like that there was no way he should have stood for Parliament. He should have been booted out on the spot and a Bye-election called.
intro far too long 🙄 - Clive is a legend tho
Never really understood the poljoe thing of getting you to watch a big chunk of the video, then start the video and make you watch it a second time.
Good on him..... not my king
ABSOLUTELY 💯
I love that guy