Who Chose Job and Why: God or the "Satan/Adversary"?
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- Опубліковано 21 кві 2024
- A detail that often gets mixed up in teaching the story of Job is who chose Job and why? The answer to these questions is pivotal to understanding the rest of the book. In this video, Dr. Nathan French (PhD Hebrew Bible and the Ancient Near East) and Matthew Delaney (MA Hebrew Bible and Semitic Languages) discuss what roles God and the “Satan/Adversary” play in the introduction of the book. What do they do and not do? Say and not say? How does this impact our interpretation of the book?
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Very interesting, next question, does Hashem work for Hasatan or does Hasatan work for Hashem? Or are they maybe equal with both their own jobs working for a greater ONE?
Glad you found it interesting! The text of Job presents HaSatan as a divine being under the authority of HaShem. HaSatan reports to HaShem and acts under his supervision.
@@hebrewbibleinsights thanks for that insight, from watching Jewish channels i got that the Hasatan is not evil as christianity tells us, but he is doing the work that makes free will possible, it is his role/job.
Or is it that Hasatan and satan are 2 separate individuals?
That is a great question. Speaking as a Christian, in Hebrew Bible studies it is debated who HaSatan is.
Option 1 is that HaSatan is the figure of Satan/Devil as described in the New Testament who is completely evil.
Option 2 is that HaSatan in the Hebrew Bible is a member of the divine council playing the role of “opposer/adversary” (which is what the Hebrew means) and is playing a good role in that council as designed by God.
There are Christians who are on both sides of this debate. If someone only looks at the Hebrew Bible to understand who HaSatan is, it definitely isn’t abundantly clear. If the second option is true, then HaSatan and Satan would be two separate individuals.
@@hebrewbibleinsights Thank you for your answer.
I hope you do not mind to give my view on it, maybe it helps you by having another option to choose from to what things mean in understanding.
Let me first tell you that i study people that study religions, many different ones. And i am able to think different based on the idea that there is only 1 way in how everything is and all are based on the Truth.
So i found that eternal God that knows the future can only mean that HE resides outside of space and time, the Original ALLKNOWING and fully in control.
Everything that is inside time is created by HIM, both good and evil. And because HE knows ALL HE is the only entity that can justify evil.
Every entity that resides inside time only knows the whole past at maximum with additions of parts of the future given to them in understanding from outside of time.
So i think Hashem exists inside of time through which the ALLKNOWING creates things inside time, might be the first born SOUL.
And Hashem has His workers doing their jobs for Him to make things happening that are needed to do what He needs to do. Satan being one of them.
The world is perfect the way it is now and exactly the way it needs to be now.... but not perfect for humanity as we need to suffer for some reason, but the Creation is not about us, we are here for the Creation to succeed.
I hope you understand my thoughts and will be able to understand that there is no judgement in my words.. it is what it is and needs to be.
I am happy to respond, and I enjoy dialoguing with you. I do not mind at all if you give your perspective. While I am a Christian, I am glad to have people of different backgrounds and beliefs engaging with our content. I also hope that my words through text do not come across as judgment either. I am simply enjoying discussing with you.
There is definitely a value for people who study many different religions. For example, Religion for Breakfast is a great UA-cam channel providing content for people from a religious studies perspective.
I agree with you that God is the only one who exists outside of time and space, and He is the one who created time and space as well as all other beings.
You bring up an interesting idea when you say “because He knows all He is the only entity that can justify evil.” According to the Hebrew Bible, God is the one who has the power and authority of retribution - to enact judgment for reward and punishment through blessings and curses. Ultimately He is the one who decides what is good and evil…if God is the source of good, is He able to do evil? Obviously evil occurs in the world so there is a need for this explanation. I think Scripture communicates the idea that evil is rebellion against God by human and divine beings because of free will.
I appreciate your perspective on suffering. Some think the point of life is for us to be comfortable and happy, but neglect how God does things for His glory and His name’s sake. Now, I would say that the picture that Scripture lays out is that God ultimately wants good for His creation, even if that goodness doesn’t always line up with what we would call “good.” There indeed is a theme of a righteous sufferer in Scripture. Someone who suffers for God’s purpose (even though they are righteous). The suffering servant of Isaiah 53 (and other Isaiah chapters) and Job are a couple of figures that come to mind. Characters who suffer even though they are righteous, and somehow their suffering leads to restoration for others. Both righteous sufferers intercede for others. In Job’s case, he intercedes for his friends to receive forgiveness (Job 42:7-9). For Isaiah 53, this person suffers even unto death so that God’s people would be forgiven. (Isaiah 53:1-12) As a Christian, we see Jesus as the ultimate example of this, suffering even unto death so that all who accept Him as lord and savior receive forgiveness, God’s Holy Spirit, and eternal life.
I would disagree a bit with your wording “The world is perfect the way it is now and exactly the way it needs to be now…” but I think I see what you are getting at, and I would agree to a degree. I think that God does act in wisdom in regards to the world for His greater purposes, including events and happenings that we don’t understand. I would say, however, that Scripture paints a picture of God not being pleased with how things are in the world (for example, the Hebrew prophets regularly speak indictment and judgment oracles against the people for their wickedness). Also, Scripture speaks of a time coming when God will make all things right. So God has reasoning for how He acts and for what He allows now, but there is coming a time when God will return to judge the living and the dead and God will renew all things.(Isaiah 2:1-5 and Daniel 12:1-4)
Hopefully this makes sense. It is enjoyable discussing things like this with someone who is interested in these matters and thinks deeply on them!