Simple Reason why the Frozen Heart of Winter doesn't get more Leadership: Elemental Bears used to be unbreakable. It's even still on their unit card. Therefore, there was no point in giving the RoR more leadership. Well... until they were changed into working like daemons. I think CA literally just forgot about it.
So many things that are always just forgotten about in campaign & multiplayer both, like it took them until this year or last I think to give blessed stegadons the 15% missile resist they were missing since Warhammer 2 launched.
I think Queen Bess is more of a showcase that Coast was left behind when it comes to the development of gunpowder units in WH3. We got snipers, shotguns, rapid-fire guns, rockets, leadbelchers, ships (flying and driving), grape shots, glaive-guns, and things I forgot about. Unique things that Coast has: hand cannons (proto-shotguns that never worked for me as well as chorfs or dawi), Deck Gunners that seem to be proto-snipers and necrofex collosi. Queen has no right to exist as RoR when we have Dreadquake mortars doing the same job, but better, on the move and there can be multiple of them.
This is in campaign, but the Coast hand cannons REALLY need the lore of deeps first spell to work well, as they have the worst accuracy of all shotgun type units but have the most damage due to more models and just more damage, but if they miss everything they won´t do shit, well give them 90 accuracy and magical attack and they will murder any unit they get in range for. Outside of that, yeah the Coast really has fallen behind in every way, hopefully they get updated sooner than latter.
yes, Coast really lacks comparing it to wh3 factions. it's a shame, because i liked Coast the most. i hope there will be a big nagash dlc at last and they revamp coast, counts and tomb kings.
Queen bess suffers from the problem of being single entity static artillery with a huge hitbox and a slow arcing projectile that's easily dodged. It just gets annihilated by enemy shooting, since the crew is packed tightly and the cannon itself is prone to taking a ton of hits and exploding. Even in the video here, the 3 units of huntsmen killed the cannon before the crew.
pepridge farms remembers when lost sylvan knights used to be really good but then ethereal changes happened and magic damage is everywhere and now they and sireens suck
Such a stupid change to give everything magic damage. The idea was Demons having phys resist was their unique resilience. If you give EVERYONE plentiful tools to deal with them, what's the point? I also hate how they changed ethereals from 75% to 55% phys resist with slightly more HP. Made them way less unique.
Also Queen Bess is really easy to dodge. Just hold down spacebar and you’ll see what she’s shooting, her muzzle flash is easy to spot so just move the targeted unit back a bit and bam Bessie kills a bunch of dirt instead of your guys
That's just not true at all. Ghost units always sucked, and far more in wh1. They kinda suck less now in 3, it just doesnt matter since they .. still suck.
@@fernyrespi8109 There is no point of using Feral Troglodon, when Skink Oracle exist (doesn't have Rampage, can use Earth Blood which is good for Lizardmen roster)
@fernyrespi8109 my boi the pale death is bad but he isn't that bad. His Roar is a huge buff and he has worked a handful of times in my games. Is he like good no. But I can count other regiments just on lizards which are worse. The issue the pale death has is that the trog isn't good enough to bring, so paying more for it isn't a great situation. The razordon hunting pack is significantly worse. It's base unit has viability where it's ror doesn't have any.
Immortals got done dirty in this. You bring meat shield infantry and let the Immortals do the damage. I think it's nice to have the option in the roster for elite melee damage dealer infantry.
The amount of extra attack and defense a RoR get is based on how much a lvl 9 unit of that same would get. And that in turn is a percentage of its base att/def. So if you already had a lot you will get even more, but if you are a zombie then you will get very little extra.
The immortals I dont understand though? They get way lower stats than what a lvl 9 ironsworn ought to have. Maybe because they are a completely different unit? But still trash.
Oh yea, there is one extra hidden stat that normal lvl 9 units get that RoR dont. Fatigue resistance. High level units get fatigue more slowly when they fight or move. But RoRs get the same amount as a lvl 0 noob.
The biggest problem with the Death Jacks is that they cost so much more as a percentage compared to the base unit. Its a 57% increase. By comparison the War Bear Rider RoR is only a 15% increase over its base version.
@@chuckwood3426 like the death jacks could be 50 gold more expensive and the unit would still not see play cause there still empire archers a trash unit
It's based on it but it isn't actually that. Programmers have to put in the stats of the rank 9 base units, and if they forget sonething then it's gone.
I do feel like pointing out that an artillery piece is weak to archers is kind of silly. Because like, aside from monstrous artillery pieces, ALL artillery will get melted by archers. But also: If they get shot at by archers, you were doing something wrong. It's not like Queen Bess doesn't have around 3 times the range of most archer units in the game. The Immortals I feel like are more of a sidegrade. Not so much for holding a line (though I will say, the argument that they'll take so much damage on the charge that their passive is gonna wear off almost immediately is entirely stupid because they have expert charge defense just like normal Ironsworn, so if you had braced them against the Black Orcs, they would have taken way less damage) but more so for taking on other elite infantry. Which admittedly isn't much of a niche in multiplayer.
The showcase is just pointing out how squishy beds is. He mentions that coast has a hard time keeping her alive and it's for limited reward in multiplayer
More proof that the white wolves aren't worth it, 9:16 the Huntsmen are considered a tier 3 unit by the game. The White Wolves RoR on the other hand are considered a tier 2 unit. Even CA (accidentally) acknowledges that they're not good
Aeson isn't that bad, but you definitely wouldn't want to take him in a matchup where a regular mutalith wouldn't be good. The reason why he was terrible on release was because he didn't get the mortis the normal mutalith got. They since patched that. The optimal target for the active is into cavalry or weapon teams, it's very miniscule damage into anything else. He also gets extra 600 barrier so it's not really the worst deal. I consider Blades of the Blood Queen or Brutes of the Hound a much more bigger waste of funds.
@@shiggydiggy6847 the problem is your paying more for upgrades that won't make him perform better then a normal mutalith The brutes and the blades are trash but at least in pure infantry grind they do perform a lot better then their normal versions, aeson justs looses slightly less badly
Queen Bess wishes it was the RoR skull cannon, and the Immortals wishes the chaos dwarfs had healing on their roster. Ungrim's campaign ability sucked when it was nerfed to 75 % and we see here that the immortals's ability pretty much does nothing because the front rows getting hammered already puts them below 75 % One question: is the Shredder of Lustria good? The price seems ludicrous for a measly -8 leadership aura.
At least it has wopping 15k health and ridiculous mass to qalk through most of the units like nothing. Yeah i know that he bery vulnerable to AL and he is bad duelist, but shredder at least have some utility and fun to use
Negative leadership auras are always fucking gnarly because of the potential to cause chain routs in closely packed units, and -8 is SUBSTANTIAL. The value is also magnified by having it on such a fucking massive unit, because the radius is commensurately bigger and he can simply walk through almost any unit to get right into the thick of it and affect the maximum number of enemies. Add to that the Shredder's ability to half hit a lot of shit on the charge, and the fact that he will basically always generate the 'Faster and stronger enemies nearby' debuff unless the enemy has an encourage unit in range... Yeah that aura is fucking godlike
Shredder of Lustria have a most number of unit that can be hit by one strike (11 unit) compared to the regular that only have 6. So what does it means is that it can kill 11 unit in of strike, compared to other monsters of Lizardmen that normally will have something like 4 or 6. That make him absolutely menace to any kind of infantry
The -8 LD is very relevant on the shredder. Dread saurians are not amazing at killing stuff, their main use is LD bombing. They apply both the shot by missiles and shot by artillery debuff and will usually win and frighten the enemy. I think vs non itp stuff shredder gives a pretty much permanent 37 LD debuff.
Shredder has 15k hp and it has terror + fear aura's. If you can keep it alive into the late game when everything is beat up, and leadership is already low then the shredder is your win condition. Everything will route around it. Against rats you can even do nasty tricks like leadership bomb a front line with a death caster and this thing to trigger mass routes.
That sylvan knight test was just straight up trolling. First matching it up against the most OP cav unit in the game from the most magic roster in the game. And then matching it against the unit its supposed to counter... only to cast a spell fuckin nobody takes because all they do is spam burning head, to invert the matchup in a way that literally never happens.. Surely you realize that not every race in the game is chaos? How about some empire knights? how about some dwarfs? how about half the bretonian cav, or all of the DE and lizard cav?
Deathjacks are cheap and can chew up artillery crews if the enemy isn't paying attention. Maybe they do belong on this list but there is a use for them especially at their price point
Hard disagree on the Frozen Heart of Winter. The spell does huge damage, and that unit's ability to wander right into a scrum and trigger it is hilariously powerful. Not to mention the fact that afterward you have an Elemental Bear standing amongst some very damaged enemy units. Will decent players fall for it? Not in my experience. But it's got 90 armor and 10k health so it's not going to get insta-sniped by their ranged, and having a unit whose very presence causes the enemy to shit themselves and scatter their formation is itself highly valuable. With all that being said it's probably still not worth the 400g bump, but it absolutely does NOT belong among the worst
Depends on how you look at it. The problem with the Teef Robbaz is that they're Goblin Wolf Chariots, which are a garbage unit. However: For 150 Gold you get Strider, Vanguard Deployment and 20 extra speed, which would actually be insanely good value, if it weren't for the fact that missile chariots in general are pretty bad, and Wolf Chariots are by far the worst missile chariots in the game. I feel like to really be considered a bad RoR, something must be worse than its counterpart or not anywhere good enough to justify the price increase. The Teef Robbaz are better than regular Wolf Chariots and you definitely aren't overpaying for their bonuses, so by that definition, they're not a bad RoR, they're just a bad unit.
lost silvan knights are fantastic, you just have to pair them with zoats to strip magic damage give them flesh to stone and healing almost nothing mobile can handle that combo
I remember when one of the lost sylvan knights big selling points was that they had more hp than was normal for a ghost unit Then every other ghost got an hp buff
Why do the Elemental Bear stat card info at the top say they are Unbreakable when they lost the actual trait? Did someone see that and think "I guess I don't need to add leadership"?
I don’t think this is a very good list. Yeah, LSK, QB, etc aren’t great, but even now they have MUs. That’s way more than can be said about a great deal of RoRs. Even if the criterion is ‘as an upgrade from base unit’, then it’s strange for units like Bess, Chillgeists, and Soulcrusher (btw it’s one of two usable mammoths with ferals) to be on the list when there are RoRs that are literally just extra cost.
Ya.... got to call BS on Queen bess. Specialy when you factor in how much they nerfed Necrofex colossus. Which in all honesty is not even worth it in campaign anymore. As the base mortar is able to do 50 time the amount of damage. But regardless queen bess still has the power to delete units. Which in all honesty is what matters the most when it comes to artillery pieces. That said, what really made me lose any faith in your video. Is when you complained about them Dying to focus fire. Its an artillery piece, What were you expecting? Of corse they are very vulnerable to archer or surprised calvary charges. Their artillery pieces, they are not meant to act as a front lone. And hell even the dwarf goblin Hewer which is manned by slayers. Is still susceptible to that as i seen one person Use a Esshin maneater to wipe it out. Yes a single entity orger has the power to knock out a artillery piece Filled with slayers. You know slayers who all have anti large. So dude, the only way queen bess would be shit. is if the artillery shells were not accurate or didn't do enough damage. And considering it is able to wipe out 20 to 40 infantry in a single hit. It dose what it needs to do. It dose not matter if the modle itself can't survive vollys of arrows or gets charged with calvary or flyers. as all Artillery dies to that... By that logic No artillery is good period. Because you can't use them to tank Chosen..
Most of the single-model arty in the game are reasonably armoured SE stuff that is surprisingly tanky. All Chaos Dwarf stuff, Ironblasters, new spider and thurdertusk variants, little groms, et cetera. That stuff can actually survive and recover from shooting/light cav dives, while Queen Bess has 32 zombie models manning it than vanish in 1-2 archer volleys or a few seconds of combat with cav/dogs. It simply doesnt hold up in terms of mobility and survivability compared to other stuff in its weight class.
@@maxwhite4177 All your mentioned artillery arent really artillery. They're hybrid units. And bess does far more damage on hit than all of those except for top price some chorf stuff. All the actual low mobility artillery like cannons, mortars, blasters, even bolt throwers melt the same to both archers and cav. Hell, most melt similarly to other artilery too..
@@Hidacal That's my point. Everything in the same niche and tier as Queen Bess vastly outmatches it because they're SE hybrid units, making Queen Bess a really bad RoR compared to them. It's accuracy is quite bad, especially if your opponent is paying attention, making its higher damage pointless. And its crewed by zombies with 25 movement speed that die instead of routing so instead of routing and rallying back like other arty crews, Bess just dies.
FYI on unit testing cav vs cav against the AI, if you give the AI the slower unit, they won't retreat. The AI seems to look at the speeds of the units, and if theirs is faster, even if only by a little bit, they will try to cycle charge.
Who do you compare leadership, melee defence and Attack, when they scale with shevrons? Like compare them atleast at rank 9 to see the price and stats difference.
Sorry queen Bess rocks and she is amazing, you're simply wrong (I'm just joking around because it's a cool as fuck unit but yeah it's not super strong)
I want to raise the ROR necrofex colossus as the worst one. Its missile attack pretty much never connects/seems to still be glitched. It is expensive as all hell, has no range, a glitched attack and bad stats. I cant imagine any situation where I would pick it over the base form. You effectively take the necrofex, a pretty decent piece of artillery, and remove its ranged attack ???
That is a pretty good point. I've seen the RoR colossus do good, but with the issues you mentioned and it's poor targeting make it so inconsistent. It is also expensive enough that it fumbling can lose you the game, while something like deathjacks suck but are a relatively small amount of your funds.
So glad the HE Scions made the list. that unit is way overpriced. imo the keepers of the flame is an honourable mention too. paying for an ability where u have to die kinda sucks. and the fire death animation makes it so they hurt allies more often.
Nah the magic attacks and stats make it a decent ror The fire is useless tho all it does is make them do 1 more attack on the enemy that killed them like the slayers deathblow
The Lost Sylvan Knights hate is crazy. Terror frostbite and 55% phys res are all valuable, especially in cav vs cav fights, especially with cold one cav and other armored AP cav being pretty popular atm.
Run filters on your OBS to massively increase the quality and clarity of sound. Lots of background noise and random noise, plus slight echo. Only need 2 or 3 standard filters, and they can be used for everything.
On the units that have slightly better stats and that's basically all, even then the stats are just for being rank 9 instead of rank 0. So a normal unit with some experience will be the equivalent.
the immortals can't lose models until they are less than 75% HP. They will beat the hellforged host 1v1. Theybare the single strongest inf in the game in melee.
Ayy son, a new Human Boy video just dropped! Cant really find fault here. Funny how for the ’worst’ wh2 dlc, Hunter and Beast, even the RoRs were mostly underwhelming.
I have to disagree with you on that huntsman RoR. Those stats don't look good on paper at all. They have the melee stats of a swordsman unit (which are already not impressive in the slightest) but with 30 less models. So they are expected to perform bad in melee. The biggest issue however is that it is a ranged unit, so the only way it will actually improve it's value is by improving it's ranged performance, which it doesn't do.
I kinda disagree with Deathjacks but everything else yeah. Deathjacks exist in MP to harass backline artillery. They're okay, very one note and useless against top tier players but most people don't notice them chewing up artillery when used well. It's good for bullying noobs which is more than you can say about most RoR
All these units are good against noobs lol like aeson can win the battle for you if you deathball against a malee army and your opponent just charges at you and that's a way more likely scenario then people not noticing the deathjacks
Man here I thought Ogres have it rough getting two boring Noblar unit as ROR but I see it's sometimes better then to get a ROR you would think should be good but isn't
How the hell do you get these regiments? I only have the Talons of Tor Caleda, Omen of Asuryan and Rahagra's pride! Where tf are these regiments for High Elves lol
That doesn't matter chaos dwarfs have so many more cost effective ways to kill infantry then investing in a expensive ror that might not get a chance to grind it out with infantry
Simple Reason why the Frozen Heart of Winter doesn't get more Leadership:
Elemental Bears used to be unbreakable. It's even still on their unit card. Therefore, there was no point in giving the RoR more leadership. Well... until they were changed into working like daemons. I think CA literally just forgot about it.
So many things that are always just forgotten about in campaign & multiplayer both, like it took them until this year or last I think to give blessed stegadons the 15% missile resist they were missing since Warhammer 2 launched.
It even still has unbreakable on its unit benefits too
@@shadowoflasalle8831their unit card?
They should give Norsca javelin throwers an RoR. Make it cost 200 gold more and give it 5 more walking speed, as is tradition.
Give it armor piercing and it's a deal!
Your thinking too small give them strider
snipe and guardian
Explosion on impact leaving staggering banana peels
Agreed lets put the javelins throwers into a catapult and lanch them at the enemy while shooting a javelins.
I think Queen Bess is more of a showcase that Coast was left behind when it comes to the development of gunpowder units in WH3. We got snipers, shotguns, rapid-fire guns, rockets, leadbelchers, ships (flying and driving), grape shots, glaive-guns, and things I forgot about. Unique things that Coast has: hand cannons (proto-shotguns that never worked for me as well as chorfs or dawi), Deck Gunners that seem to be proto-snipers and necrofex collosi. Queen has no right to exist as RoR when we have Dreadquake mortars doing the same job, but better, on the move and there can be multiple of them.
This is in campaign, but the Coast hand cannons REALLY need the lore of deeps first spell to work well, as they have the worst accuracy of all shotgun type units but have the most damage due to more models and just more damage, but if they miss everything they won´t do shit, well give them 90 accuracy and magical attack and they will murder any unit they get in range for.
Outside of that, yeah the Coast really has fallen behind in every way, hopefully they get updated sooner than latter.
yes, Coast really lacks comparing it to wh3 factions.
it's a shame, because i liked Coast the most.
i hope there will be a big nagash dlc at last and they revamp coast, counts and tomb kings.
We can't really compare everything to Dreadquake mortars...
Does *Coast* have something better for cheaper? Does any Vampire/Undead unit?
Queen bess suffers from the problem of being single entity static artillery with a huge hitbox and a slow arcing projectile that's easily dodged. It just gets annihilated by enemy shooting, since the crew is packed tightly and the cannon itself is prone to taking a ton of hits and exploding. Even in the video here, the 3 units of huntsmen killed the cannon before the crew.
Queen BEss was so OP in WH2
pepridge farms remembers when lost sylvan knights used to be really good but then ethereal changes happened and magic damage is everywhere and now they and sireens suck
Such a stupid change to give everything magic damage.
The idea was Demons having phys resist was their unique resilience. If you give EVERYONE plentiful tools to deal with them, what's the point?
I also hate how they changed ethereals from 75% to 55% phys resist with slightly more HP. Made them way less unique.
Also Queen Bess is really easy to dodge. Just hold down spacebar and you’ll see what she’s shooting, her muzzle flash is easy to spot so just move the targeted unit back a bit and bam Bessie kills a bunch of dirt instead of your guys
Something tells me the recording of this video didn't go exactly as planned, I dunno why i have this feeling though......
The whole ethereal system deson't really work in wh3. They used to be pretty amazing in wh1
Ethereal Units should now be able to ignore mass on the charge and "pass through" enemies.
@@spacehitler4537 It always sucked in wh1 there were just fewer magic damage options
That's just not true at all. Ghost units always sucked, and far more in wh1. They kinda suck less now in 3, it just doesnt matter since they .. still suck.
The Razordon hunting pack is so bad you forgot it existed. (And I forgot its name)
Troglodon ror, same issue
@fernyrespi8109 lmao I forgot about him
@@fernyrespi8109 There is no point of using Feral Troglodon, when Skink Oracle exist (doesn't have Rampage, can use Earth Blood which is good for Lizardmen roster)
@@indrickboreale7381 yeah but i think ror trog should be in this list
@fernyrespi8109 my boi the pale death is bad but he isn't that bad. His Roar is a huge buff and he has worked a handful of times in my games. Is he like good no. But I can count other regiments just on lizards which are worse. The issue the pale death has is that the trog isn't good enough to bring, so paying more for it isn't a great situation.
The razordon hunting pack is significantly worse. It's base unit has viability where it's ror doesn't have any.
Immortals got done dirty in this. You bring meat shield infantry and let the Immortals do the damage. I think it's nice to have the option in the roster for elite melee damage dealer infantry.
The amount of extra attack and defense a RoR get is based on how much a lvl 9 unit of that same would get. And that in turn is a percentage of its base att/def. So if you already had a lot you will get even more, but if you are a zombie then you will get very little extra.
The immortals I dont understand though? They get way lower stats than what a lvl 9 ironsworn ought to have. Maybe because they are a completely different unit? But still trash.
Oh yea, there is one extra hidden stat that normal lvl 9 units get that RoR dont. Fatigue resistance. High level units get fatigue more slowly when they fight or move. But RoRs get the same amount as a lvl 0 noob.
The biggest problem with the Death Jacks is that they cost so much more as a percentage compared to the base unit. Its a 57% increase. By comparison the War Bear Rider RoR is only a 15% increase over its base version.
@@chuckwood3426 like the death jacks could be 50 gold more expensive and the unit would still not see play cause there still empire archers a trash unit
It's based on it but it isn't actually that. Programmers have to put in the stats of the rank 9 base units, and if they forget sonething then it's gone.
I do feel like pointing out that an artillery piece is weak to archers is kind of silly. Because like, aside from monstrous artillery pieces, ALL artillery will get melted by archers.
But also: If they get shot at by archers, you were doing something wrong. It's not like Queen Bess doesn't have around 3 times the range of most archer units in the game.
The Immortals I feel like are more of a sidegrade. Not so much for holding a line (though I will say, the argument that they'll take so much damage on the charge that their passive is gonna wear off almost immediately is entirely stupid because they have expert charge defense just like normal Ironsworn, so if you had braced them against the Black Orcs, they would have taken way less damage) but more so for taking on other elite infantry. Which admittedly isn't much of a niche in multiplayer.
The showcase is just pointing out how squishy beds is. He mentions that coast has a hard time keeping her alive and it's for limited reward in multiplayer
More proof that the white wolves aren't worth it, 9:16 the Huntsmen are considered a tier 3 unit by the game. The White Wolves RoR on the other hand are considered a tier 2 unit. Even CA (accidentally) acknowledges that they're not good
Aeson isn't that bad, but you definitely wouldn't want to take him in a matchup where a regular mutalith wouldn't be good. The reason why he was terrible on release was because he didn't get the mortis the normal mutalith got. They since patched that. The optimal target for the active is into cavalry or weapon teams, it's very miniscule damage into anything else. He also gets extra 600 barrier so it's not really the worst deal. I consider Blades of the Blood Queen or Brutes of the Hound a much more bigger waste of funds.
Wait aeson has regular mortis now?
@@Sleexb he got it when shadows of change got new units
@@shiggydiggy6847 the problem is your paying more for upgrades that won't make him perform better then a normal mutalith
The brutes and the blades are trash but at least in pure infantry grind they do perform a lot better then their normal versions, aeson justs looses slightly less badly
he is 2600 gold and dies to zombies and zombie pistoliers in like 20 seconds
@@angelman906 most things die to zombie pistol mobs x2
Queen Bess wishes it was the RoR skull cannon, and the Immortals wishes the chaos dwarfs had healing on their roster. Ungrim's campaign ability sucked when it was nerfed to 75 % and we see here that the immortals's ability pretty much does nothing because the front rows getting hammered already puts them below 75 %
One question: is the Shredder of Lustria good? The price seems ludicrous for a measly -8 leadership aura.
At least it has wopping 15k health and ridiculous mass to qalk through most of the units like nothing.
Yeah i know that he bery vulnerable to AL and he is bad duelist, but shredder at least have some utility and fun to use
Negative leadership auras are always fucking gnarly because of the potential to cause chain routs in closely packed units, and -8 is SUBSTANTIAL. The value is also magnified by having it on such a fucking massive unit, because the radius is commensurately bigger and he can simply walk through almost any unit to get right into the thick of it and affect the maximum number of enemies.
Add to that the Shredder's ability to half hit a lot of shit on the charge, and the fact that he will basically always generate the 'Faster and stronger enemies nearby' debuff unless the enemy has an encourage unit in range...
Yeah that aura is fucking godlike
Shredder of Lustria have a most number of unit that can be hit by one strike (11 unit) compared to the regular that only have 6. So what does it means is that it can kill 11 unit in of strike, compared to other monsters of Lizardmen that normally will have something like 4 or 6. That make him absolutely menace to any kind of infantry
The -8 LD is very relevant on the shredder. Dread saurians are not amazing at killing stuff, their main use is LD bombing. They apply both the shot by missiles and shot by artillery debuff and will usually win and frighten the enemy. I think vs non itp stuff shredder gives a pretty much permanent 37 LD debuff.
Shredder has 15k hp and it has terror + fear aura's. If you can keep it alive into the late game when everything is beat up, and leadership is already low then the shredder is your win condition. Everything will route around it. Against rats you can even do nasty tricks like leadership bomb a front line with a death caster and this thing to trigger mass routes.
That sylvan knight test was just straight up trolling. First matching it up against the most OP cav unit in the game from the most magic roster in the game. And then matching it against the unit its supposed to counter... only to cast a spell fuckin nobody takes because all they do is spam burning head, to invert the matchup in a way that literally never happens.. Surely you realize that not every race in the game is chaos? How about some empire knights? how about some dwarfs? how about half the bretonian cav, or all of the DE and lizard cav?
I'm so used to SFO when he was talking about the Deathjacks I was sitting there "their discourage shot is useful, though"
The +10 MA on RoR isn't standard. It's from their rank 9 status which doesn't necessarily mean they get equal amounts MA/MD in game 3.
Deathjacks are cheap and can chew up artillery crews if the enemy isn't paying attention. Maybe they do belong on this list but there is a use for them especially at their price point
All these units have use and can do well if your opponent doesn't react to them but anything can do well if you use it against s a lobotomite
Good point. Does the empire even have anything thats fast and have vanguard? These things are at least stealthy vanguards.
Hard disagree on the Frozen Heart of Winter.
The spell does huge damage, and that unit's ability to wander right into a scrum and trigger it is hilariously powerful. Not to mention the fact that afterward you have an Elemental Bear standing amongst some very damaged enemy units.
Will decent players fall for it? Not in my experience. But it's got 90 armor and 10k health so it's not going to get insta-sniped by their ranged, and having a unit whose very presence causes the enemy to shit themselves and scatter their formation is itself highly valuable.
With all that being said it's probably still not worth the 400g bump, but it absolutely does NOT belong among the worst
If your opponent is scared of an elemental bear then that's a massive skill issue
Teef robbaz didn't even get mention lmao that unit should be remove from the game file
Depends on how you look at it.
The problem with the Teef Robbaz is that they're Goblin Wolf Chariots, which are a garbage unit.
However: For 150 Gold you get Strider, Vanguard Deployment and 20 extra speed, which would actually be insanely good value, if it weren't for the fact that missile chariots in general are pretty bad, and Wolf Chariots are by far the worst missile chariots in the game.
I feel like to really be considered a bad RoR, something must be worse than its counterpart or not anywhere good enough to justify the price increase. The Teef Robbaz are better than regular Wolf Chariots and you definitely aren't overpaying for their bonuses, so by that definition, they're not a bad RoR, they're just a bad unit.
lost silvan knights are fantastic, you just have to pair them with zoats to strip magic damage give them flesh to stone and healing almost nothing mobile can handle that combo
I remember when one of the lost sylvan knights big selling points was that they had more hp than was normal for a ghost unit
Then every other ghost got an hp buff
Did you just face an artillery piece against 3 archers and claim its bad? Almost any unit against 3 huntsmen will lose
Seeing Bess in the thumbnail for this hurt my soul
I'm glad you specified multiplayer. The queen Bess is amazing in the campaign.
Why do the Elemental Bear stat card info at the top say they are Unbreakable when they lost the actual trait? Did someone see that and think "I guess I don't need to add leadership"?
The counts ghosts are probably the most tragic units in the entire game the second one are the vampire heroes.
I don’t think this is a very good list. Yeah, LSK, QB, etc aren’t great, but even now they have MUs. That’s way more than can be said about a great deal of RoRs. Even if the criterion is ‘as an upgrade from base unit’, then it’s strange for units like Bess, Chillgeists, and Soulcrusher (btw it’s one of two usable mammoths with ferals) to be on the list when there are RoRs that are literally just extra cost.
Would love to see a 'best to worst ror' for each faction honestly.
To this day I am still convinced someone at CA mixed up the Ironsworn and Chaos Warrior ROR when giving them blasting charges
Ya.... got to call BS on Queen bess. Specialy when you factor in how much they nerfed Necrofex colossus. Which in all honesty is not even worth it in campaign anymore. As the base mortar is able to do 50 time the amount of damage. But regardless queen bess still has the power to delete units. Which in all honesty is what matters the most when it comes to artillery pieces.
That said, what really made me lose any faith in your video. Is when you complained about them Dying to focus fire. Its an artillery piece, What were you expecting? Of corse they are very vulnerable to archer or surprised calvary charges. Their artillery pieces, they are not meant to act as a front lone. And hell even the dwarf goblin Hewer which is manned by slayers. Is still susceptible to that as i seen one person Use a Esshin maneater to wipe it out. Yes a single entity orger has the power to knock out a artillery piece Filled with slayers. You know slayers who all have anti large.
So dude, the only way queen bess would be shit. is if the artillery shells were not accurate or didn't do enough damage. And considering it is able to wipe out 20 to 40 infantry in a single hit. It dose what it needs to do. It dose not matter if the modle itself can't survive vollys of arrows or gets charged with calvary or flyers. as all Artillery dies to that... By that logic No artillery is good period. Because you can't use them to tank Chosen..
Most of the single-model arty in the game are reasonably armoured SE stuff that is surprisingly tanky. All Chaos Dwarf stuff, Ironblasters, new spider and thurdertusk variants, little groms, et cetera. That stuff can actually survive and recover from shooting/light cav dives, while Queen Bess has 32 zombie models manning it than vanish in 1-2 archer volleys or a few seconds of combat with cav/dogs. It simply doesnt hold up in terms of mobility and survivability compared to other stuff in its weight class.
@@maxwhite4177 All your mentioned artillery arent really artillery. They're hybrid units. And bess does far more damage on hit than all of those except for top price some chorf stuff. All the actual low mobility artillery like cannons, mortars, blasters, even bolt throwers melt the same to both archers and cav. Hell, most melt similarly to other artilery too..
@@Hidacal That's my point. Everything in the same niche and tier as Queen Bess vastly outmatches it because they're SE hybrid units, making Queen Bess a really bad RoR compared to them. It's accuracy is quite bad, especially if your opponent is paying attention, making its higher damage pointless. And its crewed by zombies with 25 movement speed that die instead of routing so instead of routing and rallying back like other arty crews, Bess just dies.
FYI on unit testing cav vs cav against the AI, if you give the AI the slower unit, they won't retreat. The AI seems to look at the speeds of the units, and if theirs is faster, even if only by a little bit, they will try to cycle charge.
What were all the changes on Mutalith Vortex beasts?
@@rubz1390 price increase it lost it's anti large less HP and some other nerf I can't remember
Leave my Queen Bess alone. She is all style and zazz.
Who do you compare leadership, melee defence and Attack, when they scale with shevrons? Like compare them atleast at rank 9 to see the price and stats difference.
Sorry queen Bess rocks and she is amazing, you're simply wrong (I'm just joking around because it's a cool as fuck unit but yeah it's not super strong)
The woodpecker in the background seems to disagree with a lot of your rankings here, I feel like I should trust the woodpecker.
I want to raise the ROR necrofex colossus as the worst one. Its missile attack pretty much never connects/seems to still be glitched. It is expensive as all hell, has no range, a glitched attack and bad stats. I cant imagine any situation where I would pick it over the base form. You effectively take the necrofex, a pretty decent piece of artillery, and remove its ranged attack ???
That is a pretty good point. I've seen the RoR colossus do good, but with the issues you mentioned and it's poor targeting make it so inconsistent. It is also expensive enough that it fumbling can lose you the game, while something like deathjacks suck but are a relatively small amount of your funds.
So glad the HE Scions made the list. that unit is way overpriced. imo the keepers of the flame is an honourable mention too. paying for an ability where u have to die kinda sucks. and the fire death animation makes it so they hurt allies more often.
Nah the magic attacks and stats make it a decent ror
The fire is useless tho all it does is make them do 1 more attack on the enemy that killed them like the slayers deathblow
"The artillery piece is weak to things in close combat and things that can reach it from range." THat's because it's an artillery piece!
True. But it's also weak to other artillery. Bolt throwers. Cannons. Rocket launchers.
@@austinkoepp1409 yeah, as is other artillery
I mean... 800 gold cannons can beat 1600 queen bess
@@austinkoepp1409 Sure, but cannons are great with single-entity targets and artillery to begin with. Bess is for infantry and big booms
The Lost Sylvan Knights hate is crazy. Terror frostbite and 55% phys res are all valuable, especially in cav vs cav fights, especially with cold one cav and other armored AP cav being pretty popular atm.
10:49 *cries in berserker*
When you’re an expensive unit that isn’t worth your cost but it’s ok because you’re just a Chillgheist.
Run filters on your OBS to massively increase the quality and clarity of sound.
Lots of background noise and random noise, plus slight echo. Only need 2 or 3 standard filters, and they can be used for everything.
The immortals: win
The human boy: yeah but they still suck. Trust me bro
Don't tell enticity you cast flaming sword, he'll lose his shit
They should just change meme bess into 4 smaller models with less damage. Way harder to snipe it and dodge it's shots then.
Queen Bess is a nightmare in a siege though.
This is a multiplayer tier list. Queen Bess is fantastic in campaign. Yes sieges are sometimes done in multiplayer but that's rare.
@@ARTEMISXIX Ah
On the units that have slightly better stats and that's basically all, even then the stats are just for being rank 9 instead of rank 0. So a normal unit with some experience will be the equivalent.
I would argue lost sylvan knights get nr 2 for their cost
the immortals can't lose models until they are less than 75% HP. They will beat the hellforged host 1v1. Theybare the single strongest inf in the game in melee.
Ayy son, a new Human Boy video just dropped!
Cant really find fault here. Funny how for the ’worst’ wh2 dlc, Hunter and Beast, even the RoRs were mostly underwhelming.
I have to disagree with you on that huntsman RoR. Those stats don't look good on paper at all. They have the melee stats of a swordsman unit (which are already not impressive in the slightest) but with 30 less models. So they are expected to perform bad in melee. The biggest issue however is that it is a ranged unit, so the only way it will actually improve it's value is by improving it's ranged performance, which it doesn't do.
I don't play tzeentch, I didn't even know that RoR existed
While I agree that the Sylvan Knights aren't a great unit, I understand as of the current patch all monsterous cavalry are bugged.
I almost never use RoR, even in Campaign I just relegated them to "break glass in case of emergency" situation.
That's so boring though. Use them in thematic armies. Give Sigvald his mirror guard. Send the Krimson Killers off with Grimgor.
@newyorkchungus150 Which is why I said almost never. The few I do use are for thematic reasons, like you said.
I kinda disagree with Deathjacks but everything else yeah. Deathjacks exist in MP to harass backline artillery. They're okay, very one note and useless against top tier players but most people don't notice them chewing up artillery when used well. It's good for bullying noobs which is more than you can say about most RoR
All these units are good against noobs lol like aeson can win the battle for you if you deathball against a malee army and your opponent just charges at you and that's a way more likely scenario then people not noticing the deathjacks
Good video, these units definitely need to be buffed.
I think queen bess could be a pretty good unit if she was in a faction with better defensive capabilities like kesliv or cathay
You have no idea how many times my stupid ass fuking ADHD brain forgets crucial stuff... LIKE PRESSING A RECORD BUTTON...
So I empathize truly XD
piggyback knights might be on the best RoR list
Regiment of renown for blood knights that does nothing but give them rgb armor
Man here I thought Ogres have it rough getting two boring Noblar unit as ROR but I see it's sometimes better then to get a ROR you would think should be good but isn't
How the hell do you get these regiments? I only have the Talons of Tor Caleda, Omen of Asuryan and Rahagra's pride! Where tf are these regiments for High Elves lol
You get them with some DLCs.
@@zackariahtravois7125 there in the Queen and the crone dlc
Try posting on ca forums , there are mp threads for that. Maybe someday we will get heard
I'm not sure about the immortals on this placement, saw another video where they were the only unit to win against RoR exalted bloodseekers.
That doesn't matter chaos dwarfs have so many more cost effective ways to kill infantry then investing in a expensive ror that might not get a chance to grind it out with infantry
The queen beds isn't even terrible at all. Tf you smoking?
Ca relly need to start buffing ror so many are basically unsable do to cost
Get queen Bess’s name out your damn mouth!
lol some ROR just suck
New dlc got 3 copy pastes and 1 of them is vortex....