Flash Flops - DC Reboot Desperately Needed
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
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In hindsight, the worst thing to happen to the DCEU was Wonder Woman and Aquaman being big hits.
It convinced WB/DC to continue trying to push along this messed up cinematic universe that's been heavily flawed since day 1.
The thing is, those two didn't have any connection to other DC characters or films.
Stupid take
Uhm,.. We are now facing a reality where a war economy has emerging as a result of the declining status of the empire's petrodollar, and the undeniable certainty of millions of Americans being severely impacted by the recession.
Folk don't have the extra cash, it's just not there anymore to watch a Flash movie.
Still better that we got them. Couldn't care less about cinematic universes. I want good standalone films and that's what both of those felt like.
The worst thing was trying to play catchup to Marvel instead of making their own thing or carving out their share of the market. Also giving the keys to the kingdom to a guy that fundamentally doesn’t understand the characters was also a bad move.
I swear to god John, if you say “this is not one of the best comic book movies of all time but it was great” one more time…..
If you know John he’ll repeat the same thing 50 times before he stops.
He's taking the Stan Lee approach. Stan Lee famously said that every comic is someone's first Marvel comic.
Every John Campea video is someone's first John Campea video.
There's nothing wrong with John taking that approach.
@@visupreme2757 there should be a drinking game for when John repeats himself. If he didn’t repeat himself so much, his videos would only be 22 mins long. AGAIN, 22 minutes long.
OR, make no mistakes, any other film would be ecstatic to make X amount on Opening weekend, but ....
it's almost like he got paid off. The movie is FAR FAR from "best" or "great" i'm sure he also love Batman v Superman. It's 66% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Calling it now. Blue Beetle and Aquaman 2 are going to bomb as well. The DCEU ends with a whimper.
Exactly!
Yeah, after this weekend, I don't have much faith in those two films at the box office. Blue Beetle could do just as bad as Shazam 2, and Aquaman 2 could give Alice Through The Looking Glass a run for its money as the worst drop for a sequel.
You never know. I'm sure that the first Aquaman Film ,shocked alot of people,when it went over a Billion dollars 😂
Yeah I’ll see blue beetle because it looks fun I don’t have high expectations for the box office
As for aquaman 2 I was originally gonna go see it but with the fact that we have the wonka movie, ghostbusters afterlife 2 and the color purple all in December those movies honestly look and feel so much more fun and plus I can’t support a movie that has that witch Amber heard in it
Don't get your hopes up with Gunn's DCU also, the audience don't care about them.
You can already imagine how the folks at Warner Bros. are feeling right now after they tried to overhype this film a lot, only for it to fall flat right on their faces.
They overhyped it because it's a new it would fail.
Oh, I think they were expecting a total disaster from the start... the alternative was to release it online so anything they make it's still probably better
They might think twice or three times on making any more superhero movies, They might sell DC now. If Aquaman 2 fails, it’s over.
Who would have guessed. We don't like criminals playing iconic superheroes!
DCEU was divided into 2 parts. Snyderverse and Hamadaverse. It is very clear which movie belongs to which verse.
DCEU - Snyderverse:
1. Man of Steel (2013) - $668 M
2. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) - $873 M
3. Suicide Squad (2016) - $746 M
4, Wonder Woman (2017) - $822 M
5. ZS Justice League (2017-2021) - Stream
6. Aquaman (2018) - $1.1 B
DCEU - Hamadaverse:
1. Shazam! (2019) - $367 M
2. Birds of Prey (2020) - $205 M (covid effected)
3. Wonder Woman 1984 (2020) - $169 M (covid effected)
4. The Suicide Squad (2021) - $168 M
5. Black Adam (2022) - $393 M
6. Shazam: Fury of the Gods (2023) - $133 M
7. The Flash (2023) - $250 M (probably)
By the number of Box Office results it is clearly seen that putting Walter Hamada/Geof/Tobby Emmerich as head of DC Films was the worst idea. If WB was a little bit more patient with Snyder, they could have a steady universe right now. Putting film critics opinion ahead of actual audience leads to many flops in recent years like the Star Wars universe.
Holy shit that's alot of bad moviea
It’s almost like nobody cared about the DCEU once they announced that everything was being rebooted. There was nothing for the audience to invest into anymore
Nobody was hardly in the theater when I went.
Same
Imagine going to see this over Across The Spiderverse
Why when Cavill back as supes in black adam and they’re planned for MoS sequel and Sazlav focusing on trinity; the fans get hyped again? And suddenly gunn ruined it… and the fans don’t care anymore about dc and it’s started to flop and flop again
Exactly
As a DC fan this breaks my heart. People are literally giving up.on dc
These DC movies like Shazam 2, Flash, Black Adam, definitely doesn't make Quantumania look that bad afterall.
I think ppl also hate Ezra. That fool belongs behind bars
I get why they overhyped the film, because they desperately needed the spin to overcome the Ezra Miller controversies, but it backfired. The film is honestly not that great. It is fun but very messy. And honestly, Keaton is just there for nostalgia purposes. There is no real depth to his character. The fact that he's an older Batman doesn't even play into the story. Fortunately or unfortunately, Ezra Miller is genuinely the best part of the film. It doesn't help that this film released on the heels of a much better multiverse film. And now the multiverse angle is getting played out, after two Spider-verse movies, Spider-man: NWH, DS2, Loki, Ant-Man 3 etc.... so this can't help but feel tired and repetitive.
Avengers making a billion really fucked with WBs heads. Expectations and budgets need to be lowered.
Seriously, how many times do you HAVE to say "I don't believe its one of the greatest comic-book movies of all time but it is great"!? So damn repetitive!
Arguably "the greatest comic book movie of All-Time" got a 65% on Rotten Tomatoes (which no matter what John will say is not a good rating) and a B grade Cinemascore (which, to me, is the most important audience metric and most reliable when pointing to whether audiences like a movie or not). It'll fizzle quick
I liked it, but maybe that because the last few DCEU movies have been so mediocre.
Isnt CinemaScore taken after audiences watch the movie? I mean people can pay, hate watch and processed to give out a lower grade but that seems quite unlikely.
@@manlad23 that is absurd and complete cope
Sasha Calle has been the only star doing most press for The Flash. I haven’t Michael Keaton doing any press probably because he’s currently filming Beetlejuice 2.
1. It was a horrible decision to announce the cancellation of the DCEU before releasing the remaining films for this particular universe. They effectively sabotaged any pre-built hype for remaining movies.
2. WB's marketing was & is extremely inconsistent. They increased marketing ten-fold to get people interested & hyped for The Flash which ultimately wasn't significantly any better than any DCEU film. But where was this marketing for Shazam or Black Adam? Blue Beetle & Aquaman - especially, feel like an afterthought. Plus the release schedules have been terrible.
3. This movie puts insane pressure on the new DCU. Aquaman & Blue Beetle can be the greatest works of cinema in the 21st century & I don't think the general populace will care enough to make them financial blockbusters. This means the new DCU will need to be stellar.
I completely agree. I don’t get why Campea won’t put any blame on Gunn for announcing his slate before the DCEU ended
It's not complicated. There are 3 reasons why it flopped:
1. Ezra Miller
2. DCU
3. Too Many Screener Tickets
Here in Hawaii, the Theaters weren't as full. I'm gonna say it's cause of Ezra Miller controversy
Another reason I think it didn’t do well on its opening weekend is that there is a lot of movies playing rn. We got GOTG, little mermaid, fast x, spiderverse, rise of the bests and elemental
Spider verse is the only movie out of all the movies you mentioned that's doing decently every other movie nobody's watching.
@@majesticpublicenemy3201 GOTG 3 came out 3 weeks ago is somehow effecting Flash opening weekend now?
GOTG 3 cost over $250 million, and the marketing is likely around $300-$500 million. Making $820 million, yeah, that is decent, but far from great.
Do the math. GOTG 3 was supposed to clear a billion. It's under performing.
And it is certainly not a reason people aren't watching the Flash.
@@Elemental_EntityIt’s made like $20 million this past weekend, that’s some cut of audience that could’ve seen Flash instead. It might not be giving Flash the most competition but it’s about the sum total of competition Flash is contending with.
Also by the time GOTG 3 ends it’s theatrical run it will be the most grossing GOTG film which is not a letdown considering the previous films had only $50 million less of a budget.
@@Kevo6492 If it doesn't clear a billion it is moderate and falls short of expectations, nothing praise worthy. Saying a film grossed x number of millions is meaningless if that's close to what the film cost to make and promote.
There is NOTHING in theaters right now to challenge Flash. The films in theaters that could have challenged it have been out for weeks, and if people are seeing them after 3 weeks it is likely alot of second viewings.
Stop trying to do mental gymnastics to justify Flash flopping so damn hard. If there was no controversy and it was a good film, people would see it!!!
@@Elemental_Entity Wut? I’m not doing that. Flash did flop, that’s inarguable by the numbers. The conversation is *why* it flopped and competition is one of the reasons and I’m just saying it’s ridiculous to call GOTG 3 a disappointment box office wise when no film in that specific franchise has crossed a billion.
the main reason the movie landed soft is the reviews. campea says the reviews were positive. no. 66% is very average. if you map out the bell curve of critic ratings, you have an average of 6.3/10, with half below that, half above.
that's average, middling. that's not the kind of thing that's going to get marginal viewers excited & saying 'we need to see that thing.' it makes people like me say 'eh, i can give it a pass.'
if this had great critical response & corresponding fan boy word of mouth, i'm sure it would have done 80 or 90m. it still wouldn't be guardians or spider-verse, but it would have done a lot better.
critic ratings killed its momentum.
I thought it would be worse. When a guy claims to be the messiah, and does the things he did, well I simply can't support that in any way. I don't wish harm on him, but I am surprised that he isn't in jail or house arrest. I might catch it on streaming some day, but I certainly don't want to see it in a theater. I don't know anyone in my circles that wants to either.
From May 19th till June 19th we've had the following releases:
Fast X, Little Mermaid, Across The Spiderverse, Transformers Rise of the Beasts, The Flash and Elemental.
How ANYONE can think it's possible that all of these movies were gonna break bank? Seriously. Hollywood execs need a reality check.
Why should we get invested in something we know will only go away soon😞
100%
The Ezra drama is very well known beyond our movie social circle. Every person I’ve talked to about it, who doesn’t follow movies mind you, knows about it. I think Tik Tok is one of the elements of why so many people know. I don’t use it, but a looooot of other people do and news spreads on the app fast
True. I was also surprised when people started discussing ZSJL in theatres and started praising that movie. Someone even said Didn't he time travel before? It was really an eye opener.
his video of him choking woman live on youtube. That's not "rumor he said she said"....
@@BaalBlade It was debunked later by that same woman.
Even Honest Trailers had a clip of Ezra choking that woman in their video last week. And most every review of The Flash at least alludes to the Ezra problem. So even though Ezra wasn't really household name, basically everyone interested at all in the movie was going to learn about it.
Everyone in my IMAX screen were clapping and hooting................ ended up having a very good time. God knows why it tanked.
I don't think the reboot of DC will fix things for Warner. People are just done with comic book movies. Not everyone, but enough people that it's safe to say these movies are never going to make the kind of money Marvel was making five or six years ago.
One of the biggest problem is that there is a big internal divide between the fans of the Snyderverse and the general DC fans. Until both of these fanbases come together as a collective and support their IP, it’s gonna continue to miss the mark 🧐
Couldn’t have said it any better, I also do believe that when man of steel came out a lot of general audiences thought DC man of steel was going to be Marvel Like with their lighter tone. I love man of steel because I related a lot to Clark and what he went through. Feeling an alien in a big world and I related to that so much. And there’s just the amount of hate for Zack just because. So it’s sad 😢
That’s why they need to let snyder finish his story then they can do whatever they want
@@majesticpublicenemy3201 we have moved on rebel moon is one of the most anticipated films of the year and it’s gonna shit on every dc movie put out this year Dc is in shambles since they fired zack and Henry reep what you sew enjoy your trash movies 😂
And as long there are people like you stating that Snyderverse fans aren't general DC fans that won't go away.
You're part of the problem!
@@jamessdavis5201 stop it, I’m not the one not supporting the products! I show up and support the IP cause unlike individuals like you, who probably don’t support the IP in any way, shape, fashion, or form, then complains when the studios look at the bottom line and says, “whelp, the return was minimal, time to cancel future projects!”, so miss me with that one! Show up and support the projects, instead of crying about Snyder and WB moving on from him 🤷🏾♂️
Ezra Miller should be facing a judge, but the DC fan division started with removing Ray Fisher. Confusing script, terrible villian, bad CGI, and arrogant management (including not listening to what their fans want). Goodbye DCEU.😭
Despite the fact that Gunn has said that BLUE BEETLE IS THE FIRST CHARACTER IN HIS AND SAFRAN'S DCU
They should've done a hard reboot. This soft reboot they are planning is going to bite them in the ass.
A hard reboot would bite them in the ass , they don't have the credibility to do either
@@madspector A hard reboot would've had less bite in the long run. You're right; they put themselves into a no-win situation. But as long as they cling to parts of the previous universe, there will always be people upset that the parts which got axed should've been the parts that were saved. Right now, the best way to reunite such a splintered fandom is to start completely fresh, without multiple versions of half of the characters running around. Reuniting this broken fandom won't hapoen overnight. Gunn needs to take his time, and build this new universe carefully.
@Termite30 He doesn't have that kind of time , which is why you don't do a hard reboot. There should have been a credible transition between what was and what was going to be
@@madspector Rushing things is what got them into this mess in the first place.
Could you clarify what you mean by a credible transition?
@Termite30 They didn't rush anything, just because they didn't do things at MCU pace doesn't mean they rushed , and by credible transition, something that doesn't leave people wondering when the next "reboot" is going to occur the first time there is any adversity, put a bow on the story you were telling before i waste another minute anything new ,
Ok look I'm not gonna criticize John's takes on certain films that I find utterly ridiculous because like he says himself, film is subjective. HOWEVER, I listened to one of his most recent podcast episodes where he said the technology used in the flash for when both Barry's were on screen at the same time was the best use of that technology he's ever seen on film. That isn't an opinion, that's objectively wrong. Not only is it not the best use of that technology, it very well could be the worst I've ever seen... Again, this is not debatable, the flaws in the Flashs digital effects are impossible to ignore, especially some of the face swap scenes. Overall, the films digital effects deserve any and all criticism its getting and I still really enjoyed the movie. I saw it twice but Social Network came out over 10 years ago and got nothing but praise about how it pulled off the same effect. Until it became more widely known he was just one guy, people just assumed Armie Hammer's characters were played by actual twin brothers. No excuse for the Flashs digital effects to be as poor as they are.
Again, I liked the movie, don't get me wrong but John has been over defending parts of it that are indefensible. The movie was a great time but the effects are dog shit...even if "creative decision" scenes are forgiven and forgotten, the parts that had both Barry's, actually made me cringe seeing how bad the effects were on the body doubles face. I just couldn't believe what I was hearing from John during this episode, his eye sight may need to be checked...im not kidding
Maybe Ezra's holding his family hostage?
Another huge factor with the core of comicbook movie fans is that we already know this whole universe is being rebooted. Why would we care what happens in this movie when it doesn’t matter.
Definitely agree. It would be different if these last movies were going to tie up everything in the franchise, but because Warner Brothers told us that the DCU was going to be rebooted after these last movies had already been completed, we know these films aren’t to to tie up the story of the series.
@@ThunderForce2000 They should’ve went with the reshoots and had the Justice League come back for one last fight and have a proper good bye.
As much as I like Gunn, the moment he announced the end of the DCEU any films in that pipeline was instantly doomed.
I think it’s an amalgam of a thousand reasons.
• DC : Struggling beyond the Batman brand. Although I liked it, the broad audience didn't fall in love with the Snyderverse
• Ezra Miller : All that embarrassing circus certainly didn't help, obviously
• Appreciation : A portion of the audience genuinely doesn’t like the movie (for various reasons) and will say it out loud
• Promo : After all that « OMG it’s amazing » ruckus, it’s easier for the audience to be underwhelmed
• Release calendar : This part of 2023 sure is stacked. Not a crippling factor by any means but it still matters a little bit
• Imminent reboot : a portion of the internet moviegoers like to repeat "Why should I care, it doesn't matter anyway"
• Social context : After the pandemic, many people don’t go to movie theatres anymore and prefer to wait for digital
• Financial context : We're still in the post-pandemic aftermath. People are more picky with their money now
• Michael Keaton : adored by many older fans... probably not by the younger generations who might not care one bit
• Sasha Calle : a portion of the audience is still angry about Henry, they see a girl instead and go PFFFRRRR
• Superhero fatigue : I think it's definitely there for a portion of the audience (how small or large, no idea)
• Average movie fatigue : Too many average comic book movies (DC and Marvel) in a short time, and audiences lose patience
That and probably sooooo many more.
Picked one by one, each reason wouldn’t be enough. But stacked on top of each other…
Well said. It's all of those reasons you have listed and described. I can say for me personally, I'm not going to see it because I'm more selective about what I see in theaters - tickets are expensive now. There's nothing that particularly hooks me about this film, but I also don't dig how they've approached time travel. Somehow Barry saving his mom changes Batman's appearance and prevents Aquaman from being born, despite both Batman and Aquaman being born many years before Barry's mom died?
@@matthewk4912 Actually there's a direct answer to that in the movie. They approach time travel with a different angle. :)
Perfect answer.
DC’s biggest mistake was not firing Snyder after Man of Steel divided the audience and underperformed at the Box Office. They only wanted to get rid of him when it was too late. They’ve never been able to fully recover after BvS.
I couldn’t agree more. The stink from BvS and then Suicide Squad right after is something Warner never recovered from fully. Exceptions being Wonder Woman and Aquaman, they did great but those are the only 2 DCEU movies that stand very well on their own, mostly irrespective of wider connections.
Except Zack Snyder was never the problem.
It was the studio that wanted BVS to catch to Marvel where the studio butchered the theatrical cut.
@@jamessdavis5201 Ultimate Edition of BvS sucked too. They didn't interfere with MoS and Snyder still divided the audience. He needed to go
@@ericdxfan511 Bullshit
Sadly, of course it's going to flop, the average theater goer believes this is a pointless film to see because of the reboot...
The average film goer doesn’t even know it will reboot
What about the DCEU movies that under performed, flopped or bombed - even before the Reboot was announced? .. Flash is like the 5th or 6th DCEU flop or bomb in a row
@@hawkzulu5671 I don't pay a lot of attention to the DCEU but, I was under the impression that the first franchise film to totally bomb (with exception to WW1984, which considering everything happening at that time in the world is harder to pin down ) is Shazam II, I've never thought of the DCEU as being a juggernaut of franchises but, Feels like before the reboot talk they did much better
@@nicholasfaith8999 WB borrowed so much $ and the return was so little for that 1st batch of DCEU movies that TimeWarner had to sell the entire corporation to AT&T and AT&T sold it to the current owner who inherited all the debt and is obligated to pay back the people who lent the $ for these movies that keep flopping or under performing. Discovery bought the corparation, already knowing all these movies are a financial bust. Once the last movie the previous regime borrowed $ to make - Aquaman is done - watch out for Big changes.
I think it’s combination of the Ezra miller fiasco & everyone knows the DCEU it’s kind of pointless now
I’m a DC guy so I’ll watch them but the old universe is over
The reboot kicking off with Superman will bring the hype back again… I hope 🤞
And I hear James Gunn say Blue Bettle is the first film in his new universe and I’m like wtf no, just release aquaman 2 and that film, have a 1 year break and start fresh with a brand new superman film! That the smart option
They need at least a 10 year break. Finish up The Batman storyline and make some solo films for characters like Lobo on a lower budget.
Then start with Batman and Superman to start a universe
If the Flash proved one thing, it's that Keaton is still a fantastic Batman. Like the Patterson films, I would love to see an Elseworld's "Batman III" movie staring Keaton. Batman is the one character who can have multiple films starring different actors in the role, and still make big bank.
Keaton was great, but it was a little jarring to see Keaton's Batman fight like a Batman in his prime at the age of 70+ when he can barely move when he was at his prime in the original movies. I know the technical reason but it was still jarring to watch.
@@festo512 That is pure nonsense.
Anytime Keaton steps in the batsuit, they can have my money
The question isn't who plays the best Batman it's who plays the best Bruce Wayne. anyone can put the suit on and fight. but who's a believable Bruce
I'd like it if Keaton played Thomas Wayne. If Flash messed upbthebtimeline and caused Bruce Wayne to die as a child and Thomas Wayne became Batman...
Surprised he didn’t bring up the fact that Transformers and Spider-Man dropped back to back before it.
If anything I’m glad this movie is bombing at the box Office. It’ll only insure no sequels of any DCEU movie get made and we can finally focus on the DCU reboot.
You have people who are purposely giving the film negative reviews as well as not seeing it just because of Ezra. There’s no way that this film was going to do big numbers, there was too much controversy around it, even if it is a really good film, so this shouldn’t be a surprise. Without all of that negative press, I guarantee the movie would’ve done a lot better.
They take ezra actions over the commitment of the entire cast which is a dick move tbh they could of atleast thought of Michael keaton and sasha calle before commenting negative reviews of the film
It was Father’s Day weekend, so I think a lot of families were busy. It is a highly entertaining film. I think word of mouth will help improve it’s performance.
Yep and spiderman was out first.
June is crowded
lol rubbish, movie flopped for good reason
@@howdareyouexist . Have you seen the movie? And what about the movie causes you to react strongly against someone who enjoyed it?
How about the word call recession? 🙄
John, you forgot to state one critical reason: Ezra Miller was terribly miscast as Barry Allen in the first place. Miller exhibits none of the traditional traits of a man or hero, and there is no fidelity to the character's Source material. These facts alone alienate comic book fans. None of the Snyder-verse characters have been portrayed well (with the possible exception of Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman).
Ezra sucked as the flash before he became a real life villain
I think James Gunn needs to leave the DCEU actors in the past and simply acknowledge Superman Legacy as the beginning of his DCU, Clean Slate.
but unfortunately that's not the fact. It's wishy washy want to have cake and eat it.
I don't want Gunn touching DC anymore. 'He doesn't understand the characters'
Typical Campea covering all the bases. He had it as low as 40 million and as high as 140 million. So anywhere in between he was right lol. What a tool box
He did say it was the best DC movie behind Man of Steel.😂
@@Dru2037Ever heard of the concept “opinion”
I'm not spening my money on a criminal. I don't understand why WB thought it was a good idea to keep Miller. If the MCU had kept an actor who had behaved like Miller, there would be an uproar, but it looks like a lot of people at WB don't care what Miller did.
Riiiiight. You hated Ezra Miller before the controversy. I'm just glad Grant Gustin is not the Flash anymore.
Your comment is ignorant. WB had no choice because the film had already been completely shot before Millers arrests and the ending was reshot to boot Miller out of DC. Seeing the movie isn’t “supporting a criminal” do you even understand how box office works? You people also have no problem watching Tarantino films despite him openly defending a pedophile
@@renesoto-pintor2916 thank god Ezra is not the flash anymore and he did it to him self🤣🤣
@@mrbluesky4838 cope harder😂😂
@@mrbluesky4838 You're openly defending a pedophile. And where did anyone say they go to Tarantino films? People see whatever movies they want--that IS box office math. Do YOU know what the box office is? People don't have to support films with lead actors who have video footage choking women, are thieves, are terrorists, persons with restraining orders for child sexual assault, & persons convicted of breaking into peoples homes.
The Suicide Squad was also dealing with the covid pandemic.
Here’s a big reason why the Flash flopped: not just Ezra Miller, it was trying to market the Micheal Keaton as Batman factor to an audience that grew up with Bale and Affleck as Batman and while Affleck is in there as Batman, he was only there for five minutes! Plus Affleck’s Batman never got to meet Keaton’s Batman either so the No Way Home factor can’t be there either.
No, the economy is no longer thriving. People don't have money to spend on a $40 movie ticket.
Recession is here and welcome to the real world.
The Batman meeting the other Batmans couldn’t happen because they decided to discard the Snyder universe. They couldn’t get rid of it fast enough. I don’t know if Henry Cavill had anything to do with it, but WB gave up on this universe after the theatrical version of Justice League. It didn’t quite have the numbers that WB was hoping for.
Yeah also DC love to recast/replace their main superhero which something marvel never does. This is why spiderman is still tom Holland, thor is Chris Hemsworth etc..
Actually, the budget for this bomb is more like 300 million, which means it will have to make 600 million just to break even.
They don't need to reboot anything John, they just need to stop messing around with it and kick Miller out. Period.
@Gamer97704 Yeah because they kerp listening to you and doing these "reboots". They mess around too much
It’s sad when a bad movie Like Antman Quantum mania makes More money opening weekend than a really good movie like the Flash.
Both of those movies are ok, not great. They're both like 6/10 or 7/10. Passable but not amazing.
Why is it ok for Superman Legacy to make $500 million and it wasn’t ok for Man of Steel to make over $600 million?
I think there also needs to be a gap between Aquaman and reboot, if it's too close people will not understand and a lot of casual viewers are totally burned out on DC and superheroes as a whole. I mean now we're getting decent or even good movies like Flash and Shazam 2 and nobody goes to see them. Even if Gunn makes a brilliant Superman it's not a guarantee it will be a success... Even Batman didn't get to 1 billion...
You forgot to mention all those damn screenings they were doing for the last two months if they think that people were going to go see the movie two or three four times they were stupid it was just like they were giving away for free amount of times that they were playing with film before regular audience
That def didn’t help
Would’ve made so much more money if they didn’t have like a thousand early screenings less than a month BEFORE the movie came out.
I will tell you why :
-Drop Henry Cavill from DC projects.
-Prematurely announce DCEU is getting rebooted.
-Constantly meddling and reshooting DCEU movies which were in post-production.
-Over hyping movies and then blowing the budget on marketing. (Yes i'm talking about Shazam 2 and Flash).
What did WB and Gunn expect !
They should have continued the story after ZSJL and properly concluded the whole story arc BEFORE rebooting DCEU. You can't tell me that after watching ZSJL you didn't want to see sequel movies. ZSJL set up MOS2, Batman vs Deathstroke, Cyborg, Flash, Martian Manhunter New Gods, Green Lantern etc movies. That was the gateway to amazing possible movies but WB put a full stop to that and instead chose to go with mediocre movies.
Snyder was trash and he didn’t make the money that WB expected him to make, which is why they went in a different direction. He screwed everything up with BvS
@@ericdxfan511 Dumbest comment i've ever seen. What are you, 10? Snyder movies didn't make money ? What the hell are you talking about. The first 6 installments of DCEU (which was following snyder's vision and Snyder was heavily involved in) collectively made about $4.8B.
MOS (Director) - $668M
BVS (Director) - $873M
SS (Exec.producer) - $746M
Wonder Woman (Story, producer) - $822M
Josstice League (Butchered version of ZSJL ) - $656M
Aquaman (Exec.Producer) - $1.03B
All these movies followed Snyder's vision and fans were paying to watch them. WB can only dream of making these kind of money right now.
Lets have a look at Gunn and Safran's involvement in DC projects so far:
The Suicide Squad ( Written by Gunn, Produced by Safran) - $169M MAJOR FLOP
Shazam 2 (Gunn and Safran - Heads of DC) - $133M MAJOR FLOP
The Flash and Aquaman 2 ( Gunn and Safran - Heads of DC) - Projected to be flops.
You have no clue what you talking about you little muppet. Go back to sucking your mum's mamilla and stay off the internet !!
All of that to me is a complete mismanagement and misunderstanding of these properties and the genre. Announcing the reboot prematurely, sabotaged the movies in their existing lineup. They should have kept it silent until all movies we knew about were out. Personally I have zero interest in the announced reboot, and overall lost all interest in Discovery's management of WB properties.
Every couple years they flip flop on wanting their IP to be some kind of desperate little Marvel clone. It's tiresome and a little tedious at this point.
They definitely didn't blow the budget on marketing Shazam 2.😂
The Flash is the living embodiment of the DCEU.
It never moves on from Zod's fight in MoS for the fans.
Clever.
I guarantee that not just the rest of DC movies this year will flop (Blue Beetle, Aquaman 2), I don’t think The Marvels is gonna do much better either. I feel like we’re back in an era where comic book films are no longer instant money makers.
Movies in general are NOT bringing in the box office they did pre 2020. This is because of streaming services, etc. There is no way around it. PLUS marketing for movies now is almost non existent. They don't market movies like they did back in the day.
So Kidnapping, breaking and entering, assault and battery, vandalism, those aren't good marketing strategies?
Best comment.
Gunn should never have put himself on the line as one of the people calling this one of "the greatest superhero movies ever". Because he's torpedoed his own credibility over a flop. And THR's article paints Gunn and Safran as being responsible for the reshot final scene that nobody likes.
What DC needs isn’t just a reboot, it's a long break before even trying to create another cinematic universe. Joker and The Batman didn't need to be tied into a bunch of other things in order to be successful.
A flop doesn’t mean a film isn’t good…
You do know that a flop doesn’t equal quality, right? The same way that high box office success doesn’t automatically mean a movie is a masterpiece. Plus, this isn’t James Gunn’s movie, it’s Jason Kilar’s and Andres Muschiettie’s.
Why did it flop? because it sucked
Agreed.
I'm convinced DC could put out Avengers End Game and it will bomb. For whatever reason people have soured on all their properties and it almost feels dare I say malicious. I'd also love it if John gave a comparison for context when he says repeatedly, that it's great, but not one of the greatest comic book movies of all time (repeatedly).
It’s not malicious. The Batman did well. It’s about marketing, budgeting, how the studio handles their properties, and word of mouth. With a B cinemascore, this movie’s best weekend just passed.
Strange to see it flop. The Grove AMC showings are all 80% capacity or above. Granted, that's the Grove....
I really hope Sasha Calle remains as Supergirl in the new film announced by James Gunn. She and Michael Keaton are real highlights of the Flash film.
I mean after the last 2 movies and the overall drama. I dont think it flopped because it was "bad" per say but ppl are just fed up with WB and wrote it off anyway.
DC does better with a reality based format. They don’t seem to know how to do the full sci-fi film. Their CGI is ugly, the villains are generally too over-the-top, whoever’s writing their jokes, sucks. DC does better when they stick to a more realistic format, like the Christian Bale Batman movies, the Patterson Batman, the Joker movie, etc. and they need to stick to the more serious tone, and use CGI and special effects techniques that give the movie a more realistic vibe.
What you said makes no sense. Their CGI isn't made by a single company, different movies worked with different VFX companies. Their jokes or villains aren't written by a single person, it is written by whoever is the writer of that project. Also, DC hasn't made a movie yet. It was WB untill now. First DC made (DC Studios) movie will be Superman:Lgeacy.
Aquaman did a pretty good job for a sci-fi like movie just like the flash and it went to the billion dollar club.
I think it's because people are ready to move on from the snyderverse and have been for a while.
What happened to the John Campea show? The quality has gone way down
I just googled the plot on Wikipedia and then watched leaked footage of all the various cameos and post credits scene. No need to piss away 2+ hours of my life and the price of a movie ticket.
Could say that about all movies mate😂
@@wyattweekes853
All current era movies lol!😂
The problem is that WB will be expecting a grand slam with the new universe launching Superman movie. If/when that doesn't happen, they'll get cold feet. They don't want to take the time to load the bases. They want the billion dollar grand slam off the first pitch.
WB should have made Ezra Miller post a heartfelt apology and announce that all their salary is going to domestic violence and mental health charity last year. If you look at the early tracking numbers for the weekend it was with women that this movie struggled the most with. WB lack of action the last 2 years brought this on themselves
This i agree. Zaslav Gunn Peter decide to stay quiet on the Ezra stuff and thought a comic book movie was more important. How out of touch these idiots were
Just judging by the numbers, the truth no one wants to hear: The Rock was right and they owe him an apology. His movie is the one that earned the most. Despite half the studio not really wanting it. Black Adam is the least flop of the films put up on screen.
It means he's wrong and all the rest of them are wrong. They're all wrong together. :) One person being wrong doesn't make other people right. Everyone can be wrong.
The Rocks movie bombed like the ones before and after it. It may have earned more box office than X .. but it was also 1 of the most expensive movies in the DCEU and puts his future in the same place as the rest of the DCEU ..nobody in their right mind is going to lend WB hundreds of millions of dollars to fund the next installment.
@@hawkzulu5671 I mean Dwayne kind of ruined his own potential franchise by refusing to let Black Adam connect with Shazam! even though in the comics, BA is Shazam's foe. He insisted BA fight Superman
@@radrobd123 The movie would have still bombed, but it makes no sense why he was so stubborn about that. The Rock doesnt gaurantee a movies box office will be successful, but he is a 'star' - so if hes in a movie where theyre racing cars and kicking ass..some people will buy tickets automatically ...if hes in a movie where an earthquake is the star, people will give it a shot.. riverboat captain?.. tickets sold.
Superhero?.. Yess ..about time. Its in the DCEU ..*record needle skips* ...'mmm no thanks.. HELL no, but thanks'. That brand is damaged beyond repair, as far as General Audiences go.
I think super hero movies have reached a saturation point. You can't have a great standalone flick without thinking about a major team up these days.
So happy the audience held firm. DC's refusal to even acknowledge that Ezra Miller did anything wrong and then to double down and say he's their flash and the only one who they could see play the character. Good marketing strategy there guys
Not firm enough, but I agree with you in spirit.
I think James Gunn's Superman can hit a billion $ if it has a high RT and Audience Score. Superman is so recognizable worldwide
You forgot that theaters are flooded with movies, transformers, elemental, now the flash, to a lower extent little mermaid, plus Fathers Day on Sunday. The other fact is people in general don’t go to the movies since the streaming window is short. Let’s look at the economy, movies are expensive too bring a family. Also how about the thousands that have lost their jobs. Remember that China is not a big player anymore, there are restrictions with US films.
I didn't watch it because of Ezra Miller. And that there were conversations about them returning for a sequel or not getting re-casted after everything they did.
I recognized that there were a lot of other people that worked on this movie and I would want to support their efforts. This time I didn't want to
I think the approach that the trailer took, understandably, as a desperate countermeasure, was less "Go see The Flash movie" and more "this is a... something... that has some Batman in it!" As trailer marketing, it became wishy-washy and confusing.
but i think James sabotaged the current line up of movies by announcing a reboot. and if and when blue beetle and aquaman 2 fail, it going to affect the next DCU as well.
It IS one of the best. Really bummed it flopped. Deserves better
Flash was a really good movie.
Gunn needs to stop this half ass soft reboot and go full reboot. Most people not in our space will always find it confusing see characters from DCEU and rebooted characters.
That’s why people are going to get confused if Gunn keeps characters he likes and jettison/recast new ones is not going to help
Where is all the people that said it would make $100 million opening weekend?
Why did the criminal Ezra Miller still have a job?
I knew the fake critic hype machine wasn't going to save it.
It did 139 million worldwide
I don't think that james gunn reboot is gonna do well. The general public abondoned DC movies. Only joker 2 and batman 2 are gonna make some money, maybe.
This means Blue Beetle will 100% flop. I'm a big DC fan and I hardly care about Blue Beetle.
it would have to get flawless reviews and large word of mouth fan appeal. If its anything less than perfect, it will bomb.
Well how big of a fan of DC can you be if you “hardly care” about a character. What does blue beetle need to do to make you care , get a tattoo, ride a motorbike, date a blonde instead of a brunette. The emphasis is on you to get to know him and not him to get to know you.
@@adammohamed.. Because they're not promoting it or given their audience a reason to care about the character. That one little trailer is just that. They're telling us a movie is coming out. That's not motivating me to prioritize giving them my money.
@@xMontorix it comes out in August
@@adammohamed.. the emphasis should be on DC to make a good movie.
People calling it the greatest are out of their minds. It’s the very definition of mid. It has some of the worst cgi I’ve seen. All that money and time they put in is very confusing
I’m very surprised that they didn’t have a big press tour with Michael Keaton. Sure it would have called some attention to the absence of Ezra but you get Michael out there and sell people on the fact that Batman’s returning in this movie. I haven’t seen any interviews with him, no late night appearances, nothing. I would have put money down that he would be the face of the marketing, outside the trailers.
Late night is off the air due to the writers strike going on
The Flash was a great movie, sad to see it doesn't do well at the BO. And by the way: A reboot is not a guarantee for success. 💥
I think the general audience doesn’t really pay attention to the miller controversy as much as the fans do. I haven’t seen the movie. I’ll wait till it hits Max. But that’s the thing. There’s a growing number of people that if you’re not super excited to see the movie, you’ll just wait till it hits streaming. I like the flash character but he’s never a character you should ever spend $200 mil plus on a movie for cuz you probably won’t turn a profit. No matter which guest characters you have in the movie. He’s just not a character that will lead a movie to $800 mil plus at the box office. Also there are more and more people now that have reaction channels. So they aren’t going to the theaters to see theses movies. They’re waiting for them to hit streaming so they can react on their channels. It’s not a super huge number but worldwide it’s growing. $100-$120 mil tops should be what’s spent on a flash movie because of the cgi. Anything more and you risk not breaking even
I blame the bloated film schedule. We’ve got the little mermaid, fast x, gotg 3, across the spiderverse and transformers all over the last month. We still have Indy, M.I., Barbie and Oppenheimer within the next 4 weeks. Studios are literally asking fans to go to the movies every. single. weekend.
There’s a reason Mario bros moved up to April. It was a smart move.
All of those movies are in the top 10 highest grossing of the year.
I'm sure the flash with that hype marketing campaign adding celebrities, drones, superbowl, cinema con early screenings, constant articals,trailers constantly,posters everywhere costed double what most of these movies spent on marketing, they over hyped and oversold this movie.
Ezra also cannot play Barry Allen to save himself, this wasn't Barry Allen on screen and a bunch of cameos can't save a dead universe with a troubled actor who can't even play the character properly.
@@jp3813 good point….
@@michealrosen didn’t think about it that way, but you definitely have a valid point.
The fake critic hype machine wasn't enough to save it.
The Flash is... fine. I think the hype of it being "the best comic book movie ever" hurt it as well as the odd CGI choices (yes, I do think that a lot of the "bad-looking" CGI was intentional). If this were one of the first DC movies, it'd be a different story.
Surprisingly the only movies to do well In the last 5 years were The Batman and Joker which were not in the DCEU
Michael Keaton is probably the only reason it made this much as it did. James Gunn guaranteed the failure of this movie (and all the rest) when he announced his reboot. Why exactly should people go and see it when it's part of a universe that doesn't matter anymore? People also dislike (to put it mildly) Ezra Miller who was never a fan favorite anyways. Aquaman 2 will meet the same fate, courtesy of Amber Heard and James Gunn.
Exactly. People have been conditioned by Marvel to expect there to be a connected thread running through all of their films. for better or worse, it's what the audience expects, and when you tell the audience you're moving on.. so are they..
DC needs the reboot. I have liked a lot of the movies as well but it clearly wasn't working for most viewers.
It wasn't that the movies (the Synderverse) weren't working because the movies made money. The problem was Warner Brothers didn't stand behind their product. Warner Brothers blinked and folded. If Warner Brothers didn't have confidence in their product, why would anyone else have confidence in their product. Any of the movies announced after James Gunn's take over will fall flat. We all know this universe is done. Even if Aquaman was good, what would be the incentive to invest. We all know it's done.
Didn’t like the Synderverse he ruined DCU also WW 1984 was terrible 🤷🏻♂️ it’s game over for the DCU 🤦🏻♂️
@@leonbell5141synderverse made more money tho lol better tone idc what nobody say DC supposed to be dark
They just need to dump the rest of dceu on Max and completely reboot everything. Actors included even the ones who did a good job (Jason Momoa). They just need a fresh start.
Edit sorry Max
you mean on MAX/HBO?
Keaton's Batman Beyond would have been a big hit for DC.
Would it?? The last Batman didn't get to 1 billion... why would a story that not so many viewers actually know make more?