The guys that shoot enough to burn out a barrel.....don't worry about barrel life....its like tires to them....they wear out just replace them and move on. The other 90% of people who only shoot during hunting season that barrel would last them 20 life times or more.....if you are worried about barrel life.....don't its irrelevant.
I don’t agree with the mindset because I’m middle class and like to shoot 😂. Its easier to buy bullets in small quantities then spend $800 at one time to get a new barrel installed. However I don’t consider a 6.5 CM to be a barrel burner at all.. and for a hunting rifle it really is irrelevant.
6.5 usually last around 2500 rounds. I shoot 6,000 rds/year through 2 rifles. Having to budget for yearly barrel replacements for 6.5CM is exactly why I chose .308.
@@TheCodyO6.5 cm is good for hunting 2 legged varmints, so a barrel goes faster than you think. If you're putting less than 50 a year through it for 4 legged hunts, sure, it'll last a lifetime.
I mean... I shoot them out, but budget for it. Average 6.5cm barrel is roughly five hundred dollars and lasts about 2500 shots, so a 20 cent per shot barrel usage fee. Not great, not terrible. If you're buying 1k dollar barrels and shooting 0.1gr below blowing primers you might get 1500 shots, so that would be a barrel fee of 67 cents per shot.... as for what it takes to burn a 6.5cm barrel, roughly 50 shots a week for a year... so I'd call that bare minimum practice. If you have 2 rifles(or more) and alternate, it last longer as far as time. I usually do 100-ish a week in normal practice, rotating various gats through the lineup. So I get a couple of years out of a 6.5cm barrel, but usually have a replacement in reserve just waiting. Now if you start talking about 22cm or other hot rods... that barrel usage fee climbs up... assume 750 barrel life, 500 dollar barrel it's 67 cents per shot, buy that 1000 dollar carbon barrel, it's 1.33 dollars per shot barrel tax... and there are others that are worse, but not common.
My 6.5 CM barrels last close to 2500 rnds. I order a new barrel around 1800 rnds and install them myself. Now, these barrels I take off will still shoot very well at 100 yds but what does degrade is MV consistency which causes vertical impact inconsistency when shooting way way out there. I see it like this. Barrels are like car tires, you have to get new ones at some point. The barrel is a consumable part of a rifle, no big deal, it’s just part of the game. My 6.5CM barrel last me about 9 months on average. When it comes to components, I buy in bulk and reload my own ammo. Great content man and I’m digging this channel, thanks!!!!
When I was a kid I wanted a HK PSG1 so bad, until I realized you're paying $7,000 to $20,000 or whatever for a rifle that is only good for 1000 to 2000 rounds if you're lucky. I have heard they are less then 1000 rounds for what they are truly designed for.
Interesting, a Norwegian youtuber - highly recommend his videos - stated the same. He shoots 6,5x55 in a Blaser R8 and he said that his barrels usually last 2500 rounds.
@@infantilepillock1687 if I only shout out to 600 yds , I could reinstall my worn out barrels and I wouldn’t see any issues with them. They would still shoot tight at a 100-600 yds. You know, it’s the vertical way out there from a barrel that’s done, is the reason why we replace them with new barrels. I watch the Norwegian guy, yes I like him, Thanks a bunch !!!! N
@@wvlongshooter3912 I get that. Where I come from, shots beyond 150 yds are rare, so this is all hypothetical to me. Still didn't hold me back to get a barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor. I like this little round.
@@wvlongshooter3912 I want to expand your excellent post. Since it’s the barrel’s lead rifling that first vaporizes the unevenness of that wear will cause bullet yaw, or off axis spin while the bullet is still traveling through the bore and upon bullet exit the yaw is corrected via physics. However, that correction eats up energy and thus the bullet looses stability at extended distance and bullet no longer maintains a uniform trajectory. This is why the first impression of barrel wear is seen only at long distance and mostly only by champion shooters who have very well developed skills to understand the sources of shot error.
I've worn out a couple barrels, and it doesn't bother me. I made a spreadsheet years ago similar to the one you have, but I added the barrel cost and rounds per barrel (barrel life) so I can compute how much the barrel costs per round fired, then I can sum up the ammo component costs with the barrel cost to get a final "cost per trigger pull" value. 😁
@@patrickgjorven7832 I love the 6.5's but don't care for the 6mm's. I acknowledge that they are very accurate, but just a little too fat a case with a skinny neck for me. I probably just need to get used to loading them in the mag etc.
I’m surprised 83% of your audience were honest about shooting out a barrel. Seems to me that most people that worry about barrel life are too busy worrying and not busy enough shooting.
I bought my 6.5 for the same reason, as a hunting rifle I won’t hit 3K rounds in 15years and not getting the barrel super hot, I think the barrel will perform way past the 3K marker
@@ArtisOutdoorsI have a Q fix 6.5cm on its second proof 24" carbon barrel, it took me just over 4k rounds(based on empty bullet boxes) to have it go from .5" (that's my consistent best average regardless of rifle) to 1"+ at 100y on 'hot' hunting hand loads pushing 120gr @ 3k'fps. The barrel still holds under sub moa between 2-600y I don't want to think about the reloading cost but those are my numbers fyi
I have a 243 Winchester with a Shilen bull barrel which my grandfather used to own. He had the gun built by a well known Australian gunsmith on a Shultz Larson action, probably in about 1970. I was born in 1971 and remember him shooting it regularly with factory 70 and 80gn loads when I was growing up, by the pile of used brass that I inherited with the rifle, I would guess he put more than 1000 rounds through that barrel. After he passed away in 2000, I developed a load using a 55gn sierra ballistic tipped projectile specifically for shooting foxes. I load 50.5gns of AR2213 (Australian powder) which gives a muzzle velocity in that rifle of just over 4025fps, with a variation of about 40fps over 10 shots when I developed the load. I have probably fired 1500 rounds through it, and it still shoots 1” groups at 200 metres
The guys that burn out barrels regularly in PRS generally have a few blanks or pre-chambered barrels on hand for the season that they can swap out when needed. I might be mistaken, but I think it was Francis Colon that said he has 4 or 5 on the shelf for a season, but the man shoots close to 15,000 rounds per year. I would argue over 85% of people will never shoot 15,000 rounds in their life. And, in all reality, the barrel is generally one of the cheapest components in a competition setup. I put my first custom barrel on my 308 win. rifle this year for competition and have just over 1200 rounds on it. Already, I've spent more in reloaded ammo than I did on the barrel. I'm hoping to get over 4k out of this one before needed another barrel but at that point, it will have more than paid for itself. As others have said, those complaining about burn out, will most likely never need to worry about it.
yep. i keep a spare that was chambered with same reamer sitting by just in case during match year. at end of season i order replacements to make sure everything is ready come spring.
One great thing about .308, is that you can potentially reach 8k to 10k rounds before it starts loosing accuracy. I've heard some .308 going way beyond 10k and still shooting great.
@DrewMonge it really has a lot to do with what loads you are running and what your use case is. Hard competition use will generally have a shorter life than plinking on the weekends. I say a barrel life of 4-5k just for my use case. Anything longer would be awesome!
They said the same thing about the 264 win mag back in the 60's. I got my 264 win mag Remington 700 BDL from my uncle who bought it new in 1968, and he shot it with factory loads for 15 years, and probably never went through 6 boxes of shells. When I got it he gave me a box and a half. Which I went through, and couple more boxes in two trips to the range, because I wanted to be familiar with it so i knew without a dought where it would hit at several different distances. I also wanted muscle memory to know exactly where every component was without having to look and fumble around trying to get safety off so on and so forth. I switched to reloading the shells myself because I knew the gun was capable of far more than factory was allowing me to achieve. Same weight bullets, but better powder and few more grains made big difference. The stainless barrel is heavy, but after years of firing several boxes a year, I had it checked over, and the gun smith told me that it was still within factory specs for a new barrel, and not to worry about replacing it in my lifetime. Other than a little wear on the blueing from where it's rode in the rack of my old jeep it looks as good as the day I took ownership. Other than couple of scope upgrades since I replaced the original fixed 4 power scope nothing other than being striped down for complete cleaning every couple of years Other than normal cleaning after each trip to the range, or hunting season. The one trip few years ago to have the barrel checked is only time since leaving the factory has it seen a gun smith. I still shoot hotter than factory loads, and while you can find factory loads, they're too expensive to shoot in my opinion. I bought 300 new brass few years after getting it, and I'm still on the first 100 with only a few of those taken out of use because they distorted due to being thinner brass than the average of the ones I've used, and they were reloaded half a dozen times before they failed. So burnout is something if you maintain your equipment properly something very few will ever live to see from my experience. Very informative video you made here, and for someone your age you've done your homework well I'd say, because most people believe the hype before they do the truth of real life experience of others I think the different manufacturers are even the ones building the caliber that gets such things rumored about them, are just trying to sell the latest and greatest they've got. Because if the old ones last forever, then new ones are that much harder to sell aren't they.
Barrels are a consumable. Tyres on a sports car, beers in the fridge, barrels on a rifle. They are all made to be used and consumed. I have burnt out 2 .223 Remington barrels. replaced both for $650 each here in Australia. If you're worried about barrels consider the calibre for purpose other than that, it is just part and parcel. In addition, I wouldn't worry about apologising for pointing the bullet around. Commands attention, I personally find that respectable because you are believing in the point you are trying to make with your words.
Great video. You can also come at this argument from the other direction as in factoring in the cost of ammo when purchasing the level of quality of firearm or barrel. Its basically the cost of ammo that it takes to determine if the equipment meets the desired expectations. Number of rounds to happiness. If you were to assemble a precision ar and you were picking the barrel, you see a BA barrel marked down from $400 to $200 and you see a $500 barrel from a legit precision manufacturer. The question is how much ammo $ are you willing to gamble on happiness. I've found BA barrels take upto 200 rounds to settle. If it settles and you're not happy, now you're out that ammo and time and starting over. Where as the premium hand lapped barrel has almost no settling cost associated with the investment. When you buy the premium version of equipment you're investing in time and satisfaction on the range.
That's what prefit barrels are for. Buy a good enough action made to high tolerances and you can buy top tier prefits. Easy as fuk to change yourself with a Oz of common sense.
@annahonorata990 idk I've yet to see any that didn't shoot lights out when properly head spaced. Guess it's like anything else . Personal preference. Pretty sure if a guy was to get a bad barrel , said maker w replace it .
@@REDNECKROOTS depends on the use, most people will find most prefits are more than accurate enough for their sport, especially dynamic sports like prs and such. the odd sports like bench rest or F class not so much, they get custom reamers for their barrel blanks and strange actions etc. tiny groups is all they care about 😅
if you have a good action, prefits or remage stuff will work just fine. although i do agree that quality varies. ive been pretty lucky in that the ones i have gotten all have worked well.
Great video. When you break down the costs. Your right. Vast majority of people will never have to worry about barrel life. Never considered that before
I think the only true argument for barrel life is competitive shooters that shoot 4k+ rounds a year and travel around the world to shoot matches. When you want peak performance from your equipment you’ll change out barrels when they start to open up instead of being shot out because you don’t want to have to worry about your barrel getting shot out in the middle of a match, it’s what a lot of prs shooters do. Another thing is time, when you’re traveling to matches on back to back weekends and your gone for 5+ days at a time it’s hard enough to reload all your ammo let alone swap barrels and break them in and find a load and confirm your data. Thats just my opinion. I love the content please keep it up!
As an RSO in Canada, I've had the ability to "shoot out" some range rifles to the point where you can hear them key holing at less than 25yds. one in particular was a Norinco AR-15 Semi-Auto, with something like 95,000 rounds on it. I've never personally understood why people are freaked out about barrel life, its a consumable at the end of the day. As I say this, I'm running a 6Creedmoor 112gr Match Burners at 2650fps on a 23" pipe so it will "last" a really good long while for competition use. However what would be an interesting video for comparative purposes. with a "spicy" round, Shoot groups at the "suspected" barrel life's end and see what it actually takes to get there and more importantly what it looks like to those that don't really know.
I was looking at replacing the 7mm Rem Mag barrel on my Weatherby Vanguard that I purchased in 1992 and has about 2500 rounds through it I realized that I could get a new stainless Tikka with a synthetic stock which would be better for hunting the mountains of Idaho for just a couple hundred more. The accuracy has dropped but it still groups 1.25" - 1.5" three shot groups at 100 yards and when new it would often turn in 1" three shot groups at 200 yards with 150 gr basic Federal factory ammo. That same ammo at 100 yards was 0.7" - 0.9" which I could never figure out. At the same time I got 4-5" 100 yard groups with PMC 150 gr factory ammo. So I am going to keep my Vanguard as is and get a new Tikka.
Currently on my second barrel on my 6.5 Creed and will shoot this one out here soon with another sitting on my shelf. Factory barrel lasted about 3k rounds and at 2100 with my Criterion, but bought a CarbonSix to try this time. I do my own replacement with head spacing gauges, barrel wrench and action vise tool. I'm also a reloader and long range shooter so go through plenty of ammo here in Wyoming. It's also the only rifle I've ever shot a barrel out of and will probably be the only one in my set that will continue to get changed out.
I was never concerned with burning out a barrel until a few years ago. I was asked to sight in a rifle for an acquaintance. It was a Winchester model 70 in 243. I fired 3 shots at 100 and stopped. All three bullets had keyholed badly on the target. The rifle was a push feed model and was owned by a hunter (non reloader.) I would guess at the most he fired 2 boxes of ammo per year. There could be many reasons this happened including shooting very fast, bad cleaning method, aggressive cleaning compounds etc. Maybe he damaged something or fired it with a partial obstruction. A visual exam didn't show any glaring problems, everything looked OK. The metal a blueing still looked good considering how old it was. So I don't think it was from a rusty bore. The rifle was brought to a gunsmith who said the rifle was shot out. So now I think a normal hunter can shoot out a barrel, but it will probably take decades.
Barrels are consumables. People that shoot “a lot” even have their next barrel waiting already for their next season. This is a great video! Brings about clarity on where some seem to over look. 👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽
I can get a match grade barrel completely spun up at my custom shop for about $1k….thats the cheapest part of shooting any decent ammo in any rifle cartridge these days. I 100% agree.
Context is really important in these discussions. What would you say to Litz's assertion of considering a barrel shot out once Ballistic Coefficient SD exceeds 1% as a result of fire-cracking & bore roughness, which results in increased skin friction in the bullet? In one of Litz's social media posts (July 15, 2022), there's a pretty interesting graph showing a great dataset illustrating BC migration. The nefarious thing about BC migration and BC SD, he points out, is that it doesn't manifest in MV SD or 100y group sizings, but in long-range dispersion. In their test with a 375 EnABLER, the barrel shot out around 1400. I brought this up with some of the Pro shooters in my local PRS clubs and they were all aware of BC migration, and retired barrels from match use around 1000-1500 rds depending on personal preference/experience. To tie this long-winded nerd rant into your discussion about cost, when using BC migration as a metric for barrel life, the cost of shooting out, and replacing, a barrel gets much cheaper , and the opportunity cost for a blown match (or hunt) increases. A travel match or hunt, usually carries costs at least 1x that of replacing a barrel, if not 2-3x more.
I have seen 1 barrel shot out, a 243 savage99e with probably 2.000 rds fired. It still worked fine, just the ammo fired would no longer fit in another 243 chamber.
Well said! Great video and hopefully this saves a few people from waffling back and forth on the "barrel life" dilemma. It's not worth the time to even factor in barrel lifendor 99.999% of shooters or situations.
I think you are missing out one important part (I of course agree with all that you said) - if you buy a precision rifle than the rifle itself with all the add on accessories (scope, bipod etc.) will be in the 3000 - 6000 $ or even more price range, so if you add to that one or two additional barrels it won't make a huge difference and now we are talking (for the 6.5 CR) about a 6000 - 9000 round over all life (having additional spare barrels). And one other thing to mention....the money for driving to the range ;-). Shooting precision rifles is a more expensive hobby than shooting with a bow.... In my opinion the barrel life only counts for situations, where you might run out of barrel life and not have the chance to replace it when the rifle is still required, but that would probably be some war scenario where replacing an barrel might not be an option.
Pete great cost comparison. I shoot out barrels as a competitive shooter, that been said they just aren’t good enough for competition. Probably still could be a hunting barrel is some cases .I think I avoid barrel burners in hunting guns as usually there are other choices that do almost the same for twice the life . Keep them coming
One of my hunting rifles is a 6.5PRC. Most people wont buy it as its a "barrel burner". I did the math, same as you, but I included my yearly hunting cost in the mix. Keep in mind, my wife and 2 girls also hunt with me. Compared to my yearly hunting budget, the cost of ammo is very low, and I use high end components!
Yes i get your point and yes I have shoot out my 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. It was more rounds than you see advertised. I was told about 3000 to 3500 rounds and you need a barrel change well mine when south at 6800 rounds that's where the group size became well like softball size! and yes the cost off reloading 6800 rounds was is way more than a new custom barrel.
The only expense you missed, was the cost to re-develop a load with a new barrel. But it’s usually pretty small especially if you’re using a similar barrel and the same components on the 2nd barrel.
So when you do order a new barrel have your gunsmith get 2 and use the same reamer, yes reamers wear out but a good smith knows go slow no pressure , sharp stays sharp longer.
Crappy. If reloading is not allowed I'd personally move. Well unless I have boatloads of money coming in. Then that vacation is where there is alot of recreation
Yes, there is such a thing as, "I would never buy that, 'again', because of barrel life. I bought a 26 Nosler and thought it was going to be awesome. I literally shot out the barrel in 14 months, about 600 rounds and the barrel was done. I never shot more than 3 at a time and allowed it to cool between firings, but still it only lasted about 600 rounds. I load my own and pretty much killed the barrel just doing load development. It never really shot better that 1.5 moa and I was never happy with it so I kept trying to find a good load. After about 600 rounds, accuracy was 2.5 moa and I sold the gun to buy a 6.5 PRC. So, I will never buy another barrel burner like that.
I think the biggest issue with needing to replace the barrel is the wait time if you don't have one on the shelf. The barrel is one of the less expensive of the major components on a precision rifle. I know a couple of guys who have no problem getting the latest optics or chassis but complain if they have to replace the barrel.... go figure..
Barrel life for me is a strong consideration, because I typically replenish components as I go. It's $200 here, $300 there, every other month or so. Barrels are a big up front cost. There was a time where a barrel replacement was no big deal, but now that things have gone up 50% or more in price it's something I have to plan for. These days I'm happy to take slight reductions in performance for getting another 500 or 1000 shots out of a barrel in a year.
thats a fair approach. im kind of the reverse. i spend so much money to make sure that i hit accurately that $500 for a new barrel is a minor cost. Id rather pay more and hit consistently then pay less and risk a miss. I spend too much money to waste rounds.
@@McgSpook 6mm Creedmoor, 1500 shot barrel life if I'm lucky, or 25 Creedmoor, 2000-2500, both have virtually no recoil on a 20lb rig with a suppressor. I'll take my 25 Creedmoor. Berger 108 EH's and 133 EH's are both the same price. I'm not comparing a hot rod 6mm to a 308.
I have a couple thoughts. Some rounds are much faster than 2500 rounds or even 1000. I know a couple people who have lost barrel accuracy in as few as 700 rounds. Several things can affect the speed including obviously the cartridge, ie. .220 Swift etc., over-pressure loading techniques (also dangerous), the material the barrel is made of and also the RATE of fire. The key I think comes more down to the last two in many ways. When I was in the army, we literally destroyed a few barrels on the live fire range only from about 600 rounds at too high a rate on M-16 rifles. I've heard of issues during war times with other barrels, but had no personal experience on live battlefields. I do have an 1881 Marlin .40-60 Lever action rifle that was my great, great uncles which was used for culling buffalo on the rail roads. He apparently had to buy this gun, because he wore out his first one shooting so much, so rate and quantity of sustained fire can affect this.
This is good to know. I have an m4A1 upper from them. God that sucker is accurate, last weekend 62 grain PMC xtac was going 1.5” for 10 rounds at 100 yards. Best 620 bucks I’ve ever spent on firearms. DD may be pricey but they also have great sales through brownells at certain times of the year
@@T20-c8f My Delta 5 Pro is bang on, I love that rifle. I keep thinking maybe I'll build a custom blah blah blah and yah I could squeeze a smidge more out but at an extreme amount of cost.
Thanks for showing the Rand prices, Piet! Where do you have your custom rifles made? I'm really curious where I can find a good gunsmith to build me a similar setup.
Barrel life and round count also depend on the frequency of your shooting. Sustained heat and friction affect barrel life to a greater degree than just total round count. That's why mag dumps are bad for your barrel.
Totally agree-it’s pure mathematics : if you’re not a PRS pro-shooter and not participating in the shooting tournaments frequently you don’t need to worry about shooting out the barrel.
Great video. I personally believe that if a person who wants to be successful in competition shooting or hunting and is serious about the sport, doesn't care about barrel life etc.. For me personally reloading is very enjoyable and the main reasons that I reload is for precision, saving money while reloading is just a added bonus in my book.
Advice on where I can get a Ruger Precision Gen 2 6.5 Creedmoor replacement barrel. My new borescope shows that fire Cracking in the jump and partly down the rifling grooves. Bought it 2nd hand but evidence shows it was not cleaned almost ever and had a lot mor rounds through it than was suggested. I also have a 30-06 in a similar condition, i tried cleaning the chamber as you experimented with by using a nylon brush and a cordless drill, came clean but doesnt help the barrel.
Baie goeie vid Piet! Probleem in SA is dat dit vrek lank neem net om 'n goeie loop in te voer...of in SA te koop! You'll know! I have done a very similar exercise when I started reloading on my 6.5CM, added in my time at R1000/hr and all my initial cost of all my reloading equipment (which is NOT the R35k Area 419 press!)...using the '10x use' -principle per case...well...in short...I'll need to shoot almost 9000 rounds just to break even buying helluva expensive factory ammo! And, that without the accuracy I could extract from a relative cheap set-up. So, at 9000 rounds, and approx 1000 rounds/year...what you think...I'll go through min 4 barrels? Best part, once I change barrels, the load dev process starts again! So ja beslis 'n geval van: koop 'n Cruizer, maar onthou die petrol rekening!
The cost breakdown was really good. You could do it cheaper and even more expensive, but this is a great benchmark. A person must also consider when is a new barrel worth it. I mean Is it worth it to replace a barrel in a Ruger American or just replace the entire rifle.
Primers in Australia have gone through the roof in price. So has brass. Projectiles not as much. Factory ammo has gone up big time as well in the last 6 months or so. 6.5 creedmoor is over $3 a shot for a decent hunting round.
Shot out for me is when the BC variability means you start missing at longer ranges. I have a 308 that consistently prints little .25 MOA groups at 100m but I cannot hit a 2 MOA gong at a thousand yards due to vertical stringing. Whats the SD I hear you ask? A mere 5ft/sec. That barrel has 6000+ shots on it. I can still hunt with it to 300m and I do, but fun gong shoots to longer ranges is no longer fun anymore. For that I have a .284win that absolutely hammers all day long.
I have a mentor that helped me re-barrel my .223/5.56 rem. He told me to keep my old barrel so I have a reference of what a worn out barrel looks like.
@@rsquared9703 you do not need a to retain the old barrel because it won’t tell you anything. What tells you something are your scores at long range starting to decline because bullets are no longer squarely engaging rifling from barrel free bore due to lead in rifling erosion. In this condition bullets yaw for a distance before becoming stable but loose stability earlier in flight than usual for having lost energy and thus bullets to not go exactly where aimed.
Good one. I will agree in principle. But I shoot a break open combination gun and that one starts at 5500 before engravings. My barrel replacement costs 3500. Minimum. Anyways, I have in fact been looking at new,regulsr bolt action rifles with a prefit barrel for that reason.
This was a bit of a concern with my dad's 6mm Remington. He liked sending 55gr rounds down range at ~3700fps, and in the late 80s, materials were so cheap it was reasonable to do it. The two rounds I handload for (7prc and 30-06) I doubt I'll ever burn my barrels out, as I just don't shoot them enough. My Vepr54r, OTOH, I have enough ammo on hand to burn that barrel. (And it is sooooooo fun to ping steel with.)
Agree that people worry way too much about shooting out a barrel. Only shoot out a couple of barrels. If you compete you probably have a couple of spares you bought on sale.
I have shot out two barrels, one 7mm rem mag the other 223Rem. Both only fed hand loads ,1200 rounds for the 7mm and just over 5000 for the 223. Gunsmith for the 7mm and rebarreled the 223 myself.
I get 6.5CM federal power shok for 30$ a box of 20. My gun is a 500$ savage 110 trail hunter. Not gonna pay 800$ to rebarrel it when i can.get another complete gun for 30 or 40% less than a rebarrel
Can't agree with you more. For those of us that shoot for fun, we'll never ever even get close to shooting enough rounds to ruin a barrel. For those that DO shoot that much, a new barrel is just a cost you budget for. Thanks for the great content (screw UA-cam).
There really isn’t a cartridge that I can think of where the barrel cost is more expensive than the cost of the ammo to shoot the barrel out (except maybe 22 EargeSchpliten Loudenboomer where the barrel life is probably 10 rounds). Even something like 6mm Creed where you might get 1000 rounds out of it. You’re still spending more on the cartridges (or brass, bullets and powder) than it’ll cost to replace the barrel. It’s just part of the process.
For a recreational hunter, unless you are hunting unlimited game like prairie dogs, one will likely never shoot out their barrel. If target practice and the season's harvest were 50 shots, it will take 50 years to expend 2500 shots...some years one may not even hunt, or may take another weapon afield. Folks who shoot high volume in competition should factor component replacement - barrels, firing pins, action springs, etc. into their budget, just like ammo, entry fees, and travel. As anyone who has owned a boat knows, the actual "cost" must be ignored most times, but when you need a new barrel for your rifle, just look at your boat and say "meh".😉
Reloading relaxes me, I reload 5.56 which is about break even to reload or buy new..still do it for fun and relaxation..only rounds it’s actually cheaper to RL are more expensive cartridges
i love these videos coming from a novice point of view because i hear lots of different things and i think i have made my choice on my big cartridge and its the 6.5 creed
When I got into ELR, with a very old school "big = long range" mindset, my first two rifles were screamers, hotly loaded 300 win, hotly loaded 7RUM. After about 1000 rounds in each, both were trashed. I got them smoking hot, absolutely tore up that rifling. It's funny how against 6.5, or even 6mm CM I was early on. Seriously though after logistics and spending years throwing money at handloads, the biggest I handload for is a .280 AI. I've learned a lot over the years, efficiency will save your ass. Now I'm of the mindset that getting the best from the smallest is the way.
Found out just yesterday evening my GAP 6MM Creedmoor’s barrel is toasted and needs replacing. Something you didn’t comment on was the TIME it takes to obtain a new quality barrel. It may take as much as a year just to obtain the blank, not to mention how long it will take to get it installed.
If you're in the U.S. contact GCP rifle Co. Rick had my barrel done less than month after I sent my action to him and he provided the Proof barrel blank. Not guaranteeing you will get a 2 week turn around but you won't be waiting a year. And his His work is superb.
1st, nice flex with the 2 Jae chassis' there. 2nd, if you think that a lot of people that complain about burning out barrels, won't ever burn out a barrel, think again. Piet just showed approximate cost for a burnout. For most people, with a bolt action, they'll never be able to shoot that much, but anyone with a semi auto 6.5 will. An ar10, m1a, or scar 17/20 in 6.5 will burn ammo like crazy. One box of ammo for a bolt action is about 5-10 min. worth of fun. In an ar 10, that's about 2 min. A good day at the range with one will be about 1-150 rds. I will say think about about a day shooting an ar 10 6.5 cm, 18in, with muscle brake.
I have a T3x lite 300 win mag. I’ve shot roughly 900 rounds (20 per box, $102.99 after tax).. 45 boxes cost me 4600 CAD in the last 15 months. Testing it, hunting with it. Range day with it etc. to think I’ve shot almost 1000 out of probably 5000 round barrel life, is crazy but the amount itself… 900 is a lot. A 28 nosler will last anyone a life time if it’s strictly just a hunting rifle and not an everythibg rifle like my Tikka is
I have an oom that shot aout two of his 30 06 barrels within a month of each other but he is about 70 now, and my cousin shot out his dads 30 06 ackley last year as well it was second hand but it had a new barrel when my uncle got it.
Shooting here in Canada is extremely expensive as well. Looking at about $97 for a box of Berger 140 hybrids. For fed 210M ppl are selling them for about 400$ per 1000. And I’ve seen higher. No stores have them in stock and most used powder like varget or 4350 are about 90$ a pound. I only buy when stuff is on sale at this point.
The difference in many countries is when you get a barrel blank chambered it takes half a year of lead time to order one, and then starts the next half year wait on the gunsmithing work.. which only begins once they receive your rifle. All the while hoping the gunsmith is competent enough not to ruin your gear because there are really no big name gunsmiths around. You can't pay to avoid that inconvenience like you can with handloading.
I've got close to 5000 rounds through my Christensen arms MPR 6.5 Creedmoor that I bought a little over 2 years ago. I'm just like you Pete I don't run them hot. By the way, I need some more baboon videos!
Haha. You are 100% correct. Thats why “saving” money buying a button rifled barrel isn’t really saving money. Cut rifled only. Cleans better. Lasts longer and typically will shoot better
I shoot 20 twice a Week and about 40 Weeks a year. This is about 1600 shots, one shot is about 1€, so let’s say 2000€ including reloading equipment. To change a barrel is about 1500€ here for an average barrel (not Shilen or comparable). If a barrel gives me 1500 rounds, I pay every the ammo twice. A 308 gives you 20.000 rounds. This is reducing barrel coast from 1500 a year to 150 a year. And where I come from a 6,5 creed round is even more expensive than a 308 round, a 6 creed is even twice as much. We shoot up to 300 yard. A 308 can do that. No worries.
I built an AR with a white oak armament barrel and looking at another barrel because they are awesome. I cant wait to see how many rounds i can get out of it.
I've been shooting what I think is an above average amount in the USA for about 30 years. I have only seen two barrels shot out. Both of them were 20+ year old used rifles.
I have only personally burned out MG barrels due to excessive throat erosion myself, but know two high volume varmint hunters and a silhouette shooter who legitimately shoot out barrels and all three just consider it a price of the hobby. I have bought a couple of firearms that had "shot out barrels" and spent many hours cleaning them to fix the accuracy issue that made the prior owner claim that it was shot out. Also just had to get an inch wacked off another barrel and recrowned because the prior owner did not know how to properly clean it and had damaged the rifling origin. He also claimed it was shot out. So take the 17%'s response with a grain of salt.
internet experts are experts at internet, and not much else. I finally have a dialed AR308 I enjoy shooting. By the time I shoot out the barrel I'm looking at over $5000 in factory ammo. That'll give me an excuse to rebuild the upper with a 14.5" 6.5cm barrel.
Accuracy and velocity are ways to determine if a barrel is shot out. But the real thing to look at is how much the barrel is effecting the BC of the bullet. As the barrel hardens and fire cracks it will start to deform the bullet more of time. This type of thing you’ll only notice at long distance.
Reloading Cost Calculator Download - www.impactproshop.net/product/shooting-cost/
The guys that shoot enough to burn out a barrel.....don't worry about barrel life....its like tires to them....they wear out just replace them and move on. The other 90% of people who only shoot during hunting season that barrel would last them 20 life times or more.....if you are worried about barrel life.....don't its irrelevant.
That’s the best and most concise way I’ve seen anywhere to describe barrel life.
I don’t agree with the mindset because I’m middle class and like to shoot 😂. Its easier to buy bullets in small quantities then spend $800 at one time to get a new barrel installed. However I don’t consider a 6.5 CM to be a barrel burner at all.. and for a hunting rifle it really is irrelevant.
6.5 usually last around 2500 rounds. I shoot 6,000 rds/year through 2 rifles. Having to budget for yearly barrel replacements for 6.5CM is exactly why I chose .308.
@@TheCodyO6.5 cm is good for hunting 2 legged varmints, so a barrel goes faster than you think. If you're putting less than 50 a year through it for 4 legged hunts, sure, it'll last a lifetime.
I mean... I shoot them out, but budget for it. Average 6.5cm barrel is roughly five hundred dollars and lasts about 2500 shots, so a 20 cent per shot barrel usage fee. Not great, not terrible. If you're buying 1k dollar barrels and shooting 0.1gr below blowing primers you might get 1500 shots, so that would be a barrel fee of 67 cents per shot.... as for what it takes to burn a 6.5cm barrel, roughly 50 shots a week for a year... so I'd call that bare minimum practice. If you have 2 rifles(or more) and alternate, it last longer as far as time. I usually do 100-ish a week in normal practice, rotating various gats through the lineup. So I get a couple of years out of a 6.5cm barrel, but usually have a replacement in reserve just waiting. Now if you start talking about 22cm or other hot rods... that barrel usage fee climbs up... assume 750 barrel life, 500 dollar barrel it's 67 cents per shot, buy that 1000 dollar carbon barrel, it's 1.33 dollars per shot barrel tax... and there are others that are worse, but not common.
My 6.5 CM barrels last close to 2500 rnds. I order a new barrel around 1800 rnds and install them myself. Now, these barrels I take off will still shoot very well at 100 yds but what does degrade is MV consistency which causes vertical impact inconsistency when shooting way way out there. I see it like this. Barrels are like car tires, you have to get new ones at some point. The barrel is a consumable part of a rifle, no big deal, it’s just part of the game. My 6.5CM barrel last me about 9 months on average. When it comes to components, I buy in bulk and reload my own ammo.
Great content man and I’m digging this channel, thanks!!!!
When I was a kid I wanted a HK PSG1 so bad, until I realized you're paying $7,000 to $20,000 or whatever for a rifle that is only good for 1000 to 2000 rounds if you're lucky. I have heard they are less then 1000 rounds for what they are truly designed for.
Interesting, a Norwegian youtuber - highly recommend his videos - stated the same. He shoots 6,5x55 in a Blaser R8 and he said that his barrels usually last 2500 rounds.
@@infantilepillock1687 if I only shout out to 600 yds , I could reinstall my worn out barrels and I wouldn’t see any issues with them. They would still shoot tight at a 100-600 yds. You know, it’s the vertical way out there from a barrel that’s done, is the reason why we replace them with new barrels. I watch the Norwegian guy, yes I like him, Thanks a bunch !!!! N
@@wvlongshooter3912 I get that. Where I come from, shots beyond 150 yds are rare, so this is all hypothetical to me. Still didn't hold me back to get a barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor. I like this little round.
@@wvlongshooter3912 I want to expand your excellent post. Since it’s the barrel’s lead rifling that first vaporizes the unevenness of that wear will cause bullet yaw, or off axis spin while the bullet is still traveling through the bore and upon bullet exit the yaw is corrected via physics. However, that correction eats up energy and thus the bullet looses stability at extended distance and bullet no longer maintains a uniform trajectory. This is why the first impression of barrel wear is seen only at long distance and mostly only by champion shooters who have very well developed skills to understand the sources of shot error.
I've worn out a couple barrels, and it doesn't bother me. I made a spreadsheet years ago similar to the one you have, but I added the barrel cost and rounds per barrel (barrel life) so I can compute how much the barrel costs per round fired, then I can sum up the ammo component costs with the barrel cost to get a final "cost per trigger pull" value. 😁
I think I said this on your poll post, but those that complain about burning out barrels don’t burn out barrels
That's because we shoot 308..:).
@@rosswitte sounds like you miss a lot lol
6MM: Impacts! Impacts everywhere!
308win:😥
@@patrickgjorven7832 I love the 6.5's but don't care for the 6mm's. I acknowledge that they are very accurate, but just a little too fat a case with a skinny neck for me. I probably just need to get used to loading them in the mag etc.
Exactly my point!
I’m surprised 83% of your audience were honest about shooting out a barrel. Seems to me that most people that worry about barrel life are too busy worrying and not busy enough shooting.
Too much worrying not enough sending
I bought my 6.5 for the same reason, as a hunting rifle I won’t hit 3K rounds in 15years and not getting the barrel super hot, I think the barrel will perform way past the 3K marker
@@ArtisOutdoorsI have a Q fix 6.5cm on its second proof 24" carbon barrel, it took me just over 4k rounds(based on empty bullet boxes) to have it go from .5" (that's my consistent best average regardless of rifle) to 1"+ at 100y on 'hot' hunting hand loads pushing 120gr @ 3k'fps. The barrel still holds under sub moa between 2-600y
I don't want to think about the reloading cost but those are my numbers fyi
I have a 243 Winchester with a Shilen bull barrel which my grandfather used to own. He had the gun built by a well known Australian gunsmith on a Shultz Larson action, probably in about 1970. I was born in 1971 and remember him shooting it regularly with factory 70 and 80gn loads when I was growing up, by the pile of used brass that I inherited with the rifle, I would guess he put more than 1000 rounds through that barrel. After he passed away in 2000, I developed a load using a 55gn sierra ballistic tipped projectile specifically for shooting foxes. I load 50.5gns of AR2213 (Australian powder) which gives a muzzle velocity in that rifle of just over 4025fps, with a variation of about 40fps over 10 shots when I developed the load. I have probably fired 1500 rounds through it, and it still shoots 1” groups at 200 metres
The guys that burn out barrels regularly in PRS generally have a few blanks or pre-chambered barrels on hand for the season that they can swap out when needed. I might be mistaken, but I think it was Francis Colon that said he has 4 or 5 on the shelf for a season, but the man shoots close to 15,000 rounds per year. I would argue over 85% of people will never shoot 15,000 rounds in their life. And, in all reality, the barrel is generally one of the cheapest components in a competition setup.
I put my first custom barrel on my 308 win. rifle this year for competition and have just over 1200 rounds on it. Already, I've spent more in reloaded ammo than I did on the barrel. I'm hoping to get over 4k out of this one before needed another barrel but at that point, it will have more than paid for itself. As others have said, those complaining about burn out, will most likely never need to worry about it.
yep. i keep a spare that was chambered with same reamer sitting by just in case during match year. at end of season i order replacements to make sure everything is ready come spring.
One great thing about .308, is that you can potentially reach 8k to 10k rounds before it starts loosing accuracy. I've heard some .308 going way beyond 10k and still shooting great.
@DrewMonge it really has a lot to do with what loads you are running and what your use case is. Hard competition use will generally have a shorter life than plinking on the weekends. I say a barrel life of 4-5k just for my use case. Anything longer would be awesome!
They said the same thing about the 264 win mag back in the 60's.
I got my 264 win mag Remington 700 BDL from my uncle who bought it new in 1968, and he shot it with factory loads for 15 years, and probably never went through 6 boxes of shells.
When I got it he gave me a box and a half.
Which I went through, and couple more boxes in two trips to the range, because I wanted to be familiar with it so i knew without a dought where it would hit at several different distances.
I also wanted muscle memory to know exactly where every component was without having to look and fumble around trying to get safety off so on and so forth.
I switched to reloading the shells myself because I knew the gun was capable of far more than factory was allowing me to achieve.
Same weight bullets, but better powder and few more grains made big difference.
The stainless barrel is heavy, but after years of firing several boxes a year, I had it checked over, and the gun smith told me that it was still within factory specs for a new barrel, and not to worry about replacing it in my lifetime.
Other than a little wear on the blueing from where it's rode in the rack of my old jeep it looks as good as the day I took ownership.
Other than couple of scope upgrades since I replaced the original fixed 4 power scope nothing other than being striped down for complete cleaning every couple of years Other than normal cleaning after each trip to the range, or hunting season.
The one trip few years ago to have the barrel checked is only time since leaving the factory has it seen a gun smith.
I still shoot hotter than factory loads, and while you can find factory loads, they're too expensive to shoot in my opinion.
I bought 300 new brass few years after getting it, and I'm still on the first 100 with only a few of those taken out of use because they distorted due to being thinner brass than the average of the ones I've used, and they were reloaded half a dozen times before they failed.
So burnout is something if you maintain your equipment properly something very few will ever live to see from my experience.
Very informative video you made here, and for someone your age you've done your homework well I'd say, because most people believe the hype before they do the truth of real life experience of others
I think the different manufacturers are even the ones building the caliber that gets such things rumored about them, are just trying to sell the latest and greatest they've got.
Because if the old ones last forever, then new ones are that much harder to sell aren't they.
that's a treasure. it was 6.5prc before there was a 6.5prc
Barrels are a consumable. Tyres on a sports car, beers in the fridge, barrels on a rifle. They are all made to be used and consumed. I have burnt out 2 .223 Remington barrels. replaced both for $650 each here in Australia. If you're worried about barrels consider the calibre for purpose other than that, it is just part and parcel. In addition, I wouldn't worry about apologising for pointing the bullet around. Commands attention, I personally find that respectable because you are believing in the point you are trying to make with your words.
Great video. You can also come at this argument from the other direction as in factoring in the cost of ammo when purchasing the level of quality of firearm or barrel. Its basically the cost of ammo that it takes to determine if the equipment meets the desired expectations. Number of rounds to happiness. If you were to assemble a precision ar and you were picking the barrel, you see a BA barrel marked down from $400 to $200 and you see a $500 barrel from a legit precision manufacturer. The question is how much ammo $ are you willing to gamble on happiness. I've found BA barrels take upto 200 rounds to settle. If it settles and you're not happy, now you're out that ammo and time and starting over. Where as the premium hand lapped barrel has almost no settling cost associated with the investment. When you buy the premium version of equipment you're investing in time and satisfaction on the range.
barrel is simply a commodity like bullets or powder. the only issue with replacing barrel is finding a competent gunsmith to chamber one.
That's what prefit barrels are for. Buy a good enough action made to high tolerances and you can buy top tier prefits. Easy as fuk to change yourself with a Oz of common sense.
@@REDNECKROOTS prefits heavily differ in quality. it's always a lottery. even proof. Therefore, I prefer a match chamber cut by my gunsmith.
@annahonorata990 idk I've yet to see any that didn't shoot lights out when properly head spaced. Guess it's like anything else . Personal preference. Pretty sure if a guy was to get a bad barrel , said maker w replace it .
@@REDNECKROOTS depends on the use, most people will find most prefits are more than accurate enough for their sport, especially dynamic sports like prs and such. the odd sports like bench rest or F class not so much, they get custom reamers for their barrel blanks and strange actions etc. tiny groups is all they care about 😅
if you have a good action, prefits or remage stuff will work just fine. although i do agree that quality varies. ive been pretty lucky in that the ones i have gotten all have worked well.
Great video. When you break down the costs. Your right. Vast majority of people will never have to worry about barrel life. Never considered that before
I think the only true argument for barrel life is competitive shooters that shoot 4k+ rounds a year and travel around the world to shoot matches. When you want peak performance from your equipment you’ll change out barrels when they start to open up instead of being shot out because you don’t want to have to worry about your barrel getting shot out in the middle of a match, it’s what a lot of prs shooters do. Another thing is time, when you’re traveling to matches on back to back weekends and your gone for 5+ days at a time it’s hard enough to reload all your ammo let alone swap barrels and break them in and find a load and confirm your data. Thats just my opinion. I love the content please keep it up!
I was one of your subscribers when you has around 20k subs. I love how the channel has grown. Always high quality, informative content.
Awesome! Thank you!
As an RSO in Canada, I've had the ability to "shoot out" some range rifles to the point where you can hear them key holing at less than 25yds. one in particular was a Norinco AR-15 Semi-Auto, with something like 95,000 rounds on it. I've never personally understood why people are freaked out about barrel life, its a consumable at the end of the day. As I say this, I'm running a 6Creedmoor 112gr Match Burners at 2650fps on a 23" pipe so it will "last" a really good long while for competition use. However what would be an interesting video for comparative purposes. with a "spicy" round, Shoot groups at the "suspected" barrel life's end and see what it actually takes to get there and more importantly what it looks like to those that don't really know.
I was looking at replacing the 7mm Rem Mag barrel on my Weatherby Vanguard that I purchased in 1992 and has about 2500 rounds through it I realized that I could get a new stainless Tikka with a synthetic stock which would be better for hunting the mountains of Idaho for just a couple hundred more. The accuracy has dropped but it still groups 1.25" - 1.5" three shot groups at 100 yards and when new it would often turn in 1" three shot groups at 200 yards with 150 gr basic Federal factory ammo. That same ammo at 100 yards was 0.7" - 0.9" which I could never figure out. At the same time I got 4-5" 100 yard groups with PMC 150 gr factory ammo. So I am going to keep my Vanguard as is and get a new Tikka.
You can never go wrong with a tikka. They're soooo good.
Currently on my second barrel on my 6.5 Creed and will shoot this one out here soon with another sitting on my shelf. Factory barrel lasted about 3k rounds and at 2100 with my Criterion, but bought a CarbonSix to try this time. I do my own replacement with head spacing gauges, barrel wrench and action vise tool. I'm also a reloader and long range shooter so go through plenty of ammo here in Wyoming. It's also the only rifle I've ever shot a barrel out of and will probably be the only one in my set that will continue to get changed out.
I was never concerned with burning out a barrel until a few years ago. I was asked to sight in a rifle for an acquaintance. It was a Winchester model 70 in 243. I fired 3 shots at 100 and stopped. All three bullets had keyholed badly on the target. The rifle was a push feed model and was owned by a hunter (non reloader.) I would guess at the most he fired 2 boxes of ammo per year. There could be many reasons this happened including shooting very fast, bad cleaning method, aggressive cleaning compounds etc. Maybe he damaged something or fired it with a partial obstruction. A visual exam didn't show any glaring problems, everything looked OK. The metal a blueing still looked good considering how old it was. So I don't think it was from a rusty bore. The rifle was brought to a gunsmith who said the rifle was shot out. So now I think a normal hunter can shoot out a barrel, but it will probably take decades.
Well presented and concise video. Well done Piet, I really enjoy and look forward to your content.
Barrels are consumables. People that shoot “a lot” even have their next barrel waiting already for their next season. This is a great video! Brings about clarity on where some seem to over look. 👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽
I can get a match grade barrel completely spun up at my custom shop for about $1k….thats the cheapest part of shooting any decent ammo in any rifle cartridge these days. I 100% agree.
Context is really important in these discussions. What would you say to Litz's assertion of considering a barrel shot out once Ballistic Coefficient SD exceeds 1% as a result of fire-cracking & bore roughness, which results in increased skin friction in the bullet? In one of Litz's social media posts (July 15, 2022), there's a pretty interesting graph showing a great dataset illustrating BC migration. The nefarious thing about BC migration and BC SD, he points out, is that it doesn't manifest in MV SD or 100y group sizings, but in long-range dispersion. In their test with a 375 EnABLER, the barrel shot out around 1400. I brought this up with some of the Pro shooters in my local PRS clubs and they were all aware of BC migration, and retired barrels from match use around 1000-1500 rds depending on personal preference/experience. To tie this long-winded nerd rant into your discussion about cost, when using BC migration as a metric for barrel life, the cost of shooting out, and replacing, a barrel gets much cheaper , and the opportunity cost for a blown match (or hunt) increases. A travel match or hunt, usually carries costs at least 1x that of replacing a barrel, if not 2-3x more.
I have seen 1 barrel shot out, a 243 savage99e with probably 2.000 rds fired. It still worked fine, just the ammo fired would no longer fit in another 243 chamber.
Well said! Great video and hopefully this saves a few people from waffling back and forth on the "barrel life" dilemma. It's not worth the time to even factor in barrel lifendor 99.999% of shooters or situations.
I think you are missing out one important part (I of course agree with all that you said) - if you buy a precision rifle than the rifle itself with all the add on accessories (scope, bipod etc.) will be in the 3000 - 6000 $ or even more price range, so if you add to that one or two additional barrels it won't make a huge difference and now we are talking (for the 6.5 CR) about a 6000 - 9000 round over all life (having additional spare barrels).
And one other thing to mention....the money for driving to the range ;-).
Shooting precision rifles is a more expensive hobby than shooting with a bow....
In my opinion the barrel life only counts for situations, where you might run out of barrel life and not have the chance to replace it when the rifle is still required, but that would probably be some war scenario where replacing an barrel might not be an option.
I've got a Howa 22-250 I've had it for over 30 years and it still shoots great.
Primers use to be 3.00 dollars a 100 and know there crazy high and hard to get large rifle primers
Pete great cost comparison. I shoot out barrels as a competitive shooter, that been said they just aren’t good enough for competition. Probably still could be a hunting barrel is some cases .I think I avoid barrel burners in hunting guns as usually there are other choices that do almost the same for twice the life . Keep them coming
What barrels in RSA would you prefer. Top 5 for you please. Because I want to build a dasher to start long distance matches.
One of my hunting rifles is a 6.5PRC. Most people wont buy it as its a "barrel burner". I did the math, same as you, but I included my yearly hunting cost in the mix. Keep in mind, my wife and 2 girls also hunt with me. Compared to my yearly hunting budget, the cost of ammo is very low, and I use high end components!
Yes i get your point and yes I have shoot out my 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. It was more rounds than you see advertised.
I was told about 3000 to 3500 rounds and you need a barrel change well mine when south at 6800 rounds that's where the group size became well like softball size! and yes the cost off reloading 6800 rounds was is way more than a new custom barrel.
The only expense you missed, was the cost to re-develop a load with a new barrel. But it’s usually pretty small especially if you’re using a similar barrel and the same components on the 2nd barrel.
So when you do order a new barrel have your gunsmith get 2 and use the same reamer, yes reamers wear out but a good smith knows go slow no pressure , sharp stays sharp longer.
In some areas, like the Caribbean, reloading is not allowed. We have no choice apart from factory ammo.
Crappy. If reloading is not allowed I'd personally move. Well unless I have boatloads of money coming in. Then that vacation is where there is alot of recreation
I did not Know that and WHAT A BUMMER!
Yes, there is such a thing as, "I would never buy that, 'again', because of barrel life.
I bought a 26 Nosler and thought it was going to be awesome. I literally shot out the barrel in 14 months, about 600 rounds and the barrel was done. I never shot more than 3 at a time and allowed it to cool between firings, but still it only lasted about 600 rounds. I load my own and pretty much killed the barrel just doing load development. It never really shot better that 1.5 moa and I was never happy with it so I kept trying to find a good load. After about 600 rounds, accuracy was 2.5 moa and I sold the gun to buy a 6.5 PRC. So, I will never buy another barrel burner like that.
I think the biggest issue with needing to replace the barrel is the wait time if you don't have one on the shelf. The barrel is one of the less expensive of the major components on a precision rifle. I know a couple of guys who have no problem getting the latest optics or chassis but complain if they have to replace the barrel.... go figure..
How do you find cycling the action?
I have heard issues with bullet pickup isnt great on the action
Not related, but I love the cerakoted Gen III Razor on the wall!
Barrel life for me is a strong consideration, because I typically replenish components as I go. It's $200 here, $300 there, every other month or so. Barrels are a big up front cost. There was a time where a barrel replacement was no big deal, but now that things have gone up 50% or more in price it's something I have to plan for. These days I'm happy to take slight reductions in performance for getting another 500 or 1000 shots out of a barrel in a year.
thats a fair approach. im kind of the reverse. i spend so much money to make sure that i hit accurately that $500 for a new barrel is a minor cost. Id rather pay more and hit consistently then pay less and risk a miss. I spend too much money to waste rounds.
@@McgSpook 6mm Creedmoor, 1500 shot barrel life if I'm lucky, or 25 Creedmoor, 2000-2500, both have virtually no recoil on a 20lb rig with a suppressor. I'll take my 25 Creedmoor. Berger 108 EH's and 133 EH's are both the same price. I'm not comparing a hot rod 6mm to a 308.
I have a couple thoughts. Some rounds are much faster than 2500 rounds or even 1000. I know a couple people who have lost barrel accuracy in as few as 700 rounds. Several things can affect the speed including obviously the cartridge, ie. .220 Swift etc., over-pressure loading techniques (also dangerous), the material the barrel is made of and also the RATE of fire. The key I think comes more down to the last two in many ways. When I was in the army, we literally destroyed a few barrels on the live fire range only from about 600 rounds at too high a rate on M-16 rifles. I've heard of issues during war times with other barrels, but had no personal experience on live battlefields. I do have an 1881 Marlin .40-60 Lever action rifle that was my great, great uncles which was used for culling buffalo on the rail roads. He apparently had to buy this gun, because he wore out his first one shooting so much, so rate and quantity of sustained fire can affect this.
this week i paid 145 eur for a box of CCI 450 primers. Other brands of small rifle magnum primers dont cost much less in europe.
I've shot out a 6.5 barrel and Daniel Defense took care of me no problem. Can't say enough good things about the DD guys and their support.
How much did they charge you
DD is a great company and they stand behind their products. I’ve seen their rifles, especially their ar-10’ s shoot extremely accurate.
Well you already paid for three more up front so....
This is good to know. I have an m4A1 upper from them. God that sucker is accurate, last weekend 62 grain PMC xtac was going 1.5” for 10 rounds at 100 yards. Best 620 bucks I’ve ever spent on firearms. DD may be pricey but they also have great sales through brownells at certain times of the year
@@T20-c8f My Delta 5 Pro is bang on, I love that rifle. I keep thinking maybe I'll build a custom blah blah blah and yah I could squeeze a smidge more out but at an extreme amount of cost.
Thanks for showing the Rand prices, Piet! Where do you have your custom rifles made? I'm really curious where I can find a good gunsmith to build me a similar setup.
I will never shoot out a barrel. I am a hunter.
This. My exact comment on the last one. Barrel life isn’t a huge deal if you don’t compete at a serious level
Barrel life and round count also depend on the frequency of your shooting. Sustained heat and friction affect barrel life to a greater degree than just total round count. That's why mag dumps are bad for your barrel.
3100 rounds out of savage rifle with crietrien barrel. Should of changed a few hundred sooner. Great videos as usual
Totally agree-it’s pure mathematics : if you’re not a PRS pro-shooter and not participating in the shooting tournaments frequently you don’t need to worry about shooting out the barrel.
Ya I agree with the guy below. The ones of us who burn out a barrel don't worry about the cost of said barrel
So since in SA your barrel is the registered part, how do you guys go about replacing barrels?
Great video. I personally believe that if a person who wants to be successful in competition shooting or hunting and is serious about the sport, doesn't care about barrel life etc.. For me personally reloading is very enjoyable and the main reasons that I reload is for precision, saving money while reloading is just a added bonus in my book.
Advice on where I can get a Ruger Precision Gen 2 6.5 Creedmoor replacement barrel.
My new borescope shows that fire Cracking in the jump and partly down the rifling grooves. Bought it 2nd hand but evidence shows it was not cleaned almost ever and had a lot mor rounds through it than was suggested.
I also have a 30-06 in a similar condition, i tried cleaning the chamber as you experimented with by using a nylon brush and a cordless drill, came clean but doesnt help the barrel.
BTW, long time subscriber, LOVE the content, keep up the great work.
Baie goeie vid Piet! Probleem in SA is dat dit vrek lank neem net om 'n goeie loop in te voer...of in SA te koop! You'll know!
I have done a very similar exercise when I started reloading on my 6.5CM, added in my time at R1000/hr and all my initial cost of all my reloading equipment (which is NOT the R35k Area 419 press!)...using the '10x use' -principle per case...well...in short...I'll need to shoot almost 9000 rounds just to break even buying helluva expensive factory ammo! And, that without the accuracy I could extract from a relative cheap set-up.
So, at 9000 rounds, and approx 1000 rounds/year...what you think...I'll go through min 4 barrels? Best part, once I change barrels, the load dev process starts again!
So ja beslis 'n geval van: koop 'n Cruizer, maar onthou die petrol rekening!
The cost breakdown was really good. You could do it cheaper and even more expensive, but this is a great benchmark.
A person must also consider when is a new barrel worth it. I mean Is it worth it to replace a barrel in a Ruger American or just replace the entire rifle.
Primers in Australia have gone through the roof in price. So has brass. Projectiles not as much. Factory ammo has gone up big time as well in the last 6 months or so. 6.5 creedmoor is over $3 a shot for a decent hunting round.
Not quite that bad here in the U.S. But i get you. It aint the good old days anymore.
100% agree with you. Thanks Piet.
It is even cheaper with other option other than Berger projectiles. I always use 123rn SMKs on my 6.5 CM.
Shot out for me is when the BC variability means you start missing at longer ranges. I have a 308 that consistently prints little .25 MOA groups at 100m but I cannot hit a 2 MOA gong at a thousand yards due to vertical stringing. Whats the SD I hear you ask? A mere 5ft/sec. That barrel has 6000+ shots on it. I can still hunt with it to 300m and I do, but fun gong shoots to longer ranges is no longer fun anymore. For that I have a .284win that absolutely hammers all day long.
Consistently shoots .25 moa groups. SD of less than 5fps. Can't hit a 20" target at 1000yds and blames it on the gun? hmm...
I have a mentor that helped me re-barrel my .223/5.56 rem. He told me to keep my old barrel so I have a reference of what a worn out barrel looks like.
@@rsquared9703 you do not need a to retain the old barrel because it won’t tell you anything. What tells you something are your scores at long range starting to decline because bullets are no longer squarely engaging rifling from barrel free bore due to lead in rifling erosion. In this condition bullets yaw for a distance before becoming stable but loose stability earlier in flight than usual for having lost energy and thus bullets to not go exactly where aimed.
@@charlesludwig9173 it’s a visual reference with a borescope. I’m not going to remount an old barrel to verify if my other barrel sucks.
Good one. I will agree in principle. But I shoot a break open combination gun and that one starts at 5500 before engravings. My barrel replacement costs 3500. Minimum.
Anyways, I have in fact been looking at new,regulsr bolt action rifles with a prefit barrel for that reason.
I agree with the video. If you afford the ammo to shoot out a barrel, you can afford a new barrel.
You said it.
This was a bit of a concern with my dad's 6mm Remington. He liked sending 55gr rounds down range at ~3700fps, and in the late 80s, materials were so cheap it was reasonable to do it. The two rounds I handload for (7prc and 30-06) I doubt I'll ever burn my barrels out, as I just don't shoot them enough.
My Vepr54r, OTOH, I have enough ammo on hand to burn that barrel. (And it is sooooooo fun to ping steel with.)
Agree that people worry way too much about shooting out a barrel. Only shoot out a couple of barrels. If you compete you probably have a couple of spares you bought on sale.
in australia i buy 1000 primers for about $250 and powder is around $140 for 1 kg. premaid amoo ranges for 6.5 cm at about $50 to $90 for 20 shots
I have shot out two barrels, one 7mm rem mag the other 223Rem. Both only fed hand loads ,1200 rounds for the 7mm and just over 5000 for the 223. Gunsmith for the 7mm and rebarreled the 223 myself.
I get 6.5CM federal power shok for 30$ a box of 20. My gun is a 500$ savage 110 trail hunter. Not gonna pay 800$ to rebarrel it when i can.get another complete gun for 30 or 40% less than a rebarrel
Can't agree with you more. For those of us that shoot for fun, we'll never ever even get close to shooting enough rounds to ruin a barrel. For those that DO shoot that much, a new barrel is just a cost you budget for. Thanks for the great content (screw UA-cam).
There really isn’t a cartridge that I can think of where the barrel cost is more expensive than the cost of the ammo to shoot the barrel out (except maybe 22 EargeSchpliten Loudenboomer where the barrel life is probably 10 rounds). Even something like 6mm Creed where you might get 1000 rounds out of it. You’re still spending more on the cartridges (or brass, bullets and powder) than it’ll cost to replace the barrel. It’s just part of the process.
For a recreational hunter, unless you are hunting unlimited game like prairie dogs, one will likely never shoot out their barrel. If target practice and the season's harvest were 50 shots, it will take 50 years to expend 2500 shots...some years one may not even hunt, or may take another weapon afield. Folks who shoot high volume in competition should factor component replacement - barrels, firing pins, action springs, etc. into their budget, just like ammo, entry fees, and travel.
As anyone who has owned a boat knows, the actual "cost" must be ignored most times, but when you need a new barrel for your rifle, just look at your boat and say "meh".😉
Reloading relaxes me, I reload 5.56 which is about break even to reload or buy new..still do it for fun and relaxation..only rounds it’s actually cheaper to RL are more expensive cartridges
Here in Argentina, 3k 6.5 creedmoor reloaded rounds cost USD 7500
Some of the fast barrel.burners use less powder vs 6.5 CM.
i love these videos coming from a novice point of view because i hear lots of different things and i think i have made my choice on my big cartridge and its the 6.5 creed
I wish I hadn't waited so long to get a 6.5CM. It is fantastic!
When I got into ELR, with a very old school "big = long range" mindset, my first two rifles were screamers, hotly loaded 300 win, hotly loaded 7RUM. After about 1000 rounds in each, both were trashed. I got them smoking hot, absolutely tore up that rifling.
It's funny how against 6.5, or even 6mm CM I was early on. Seriously though after logistics and spending years throwing money at handloads, the biggest I handload for is a .280 AI. I've learned a lot over the years, efficiency will save your ass. Now I'm of the mindset that getting the best from the smallest is the way.
Thanks Piet, great info as always. Much appreciated 🤙🇨🇦🍻
Found out just yesterday evening my GAP 6MM Creedmoor’s barrel is toasted and needs replacing. Something you didn’t comment on was the TIME it takes to obtain a new quality barrel. It may take as much as a year just to obtain the blank, not to mention how long it will take to get it installed.
That’s why, if you shoot 1k rounds a year, you have another barrel ready to go when the season starts
If you're in the U.S. contact GCP rifle Co. Rick had my barrel done less than month after I sent my action to him and he provided the Proof barrel blank. Not guaranteeing you will get a 2 week turn around but you won't be waiting a year. And his His work is superb.
@@Patrick-xd8jv this one burned out a bit sooner than expected. Wanted another 1k out of it but stuff happens.
i use preferred barrel blanks for just such cases. quick turn around and so far i havent been disappointed.
Great video! My only question is what gets BETTER barrel life than a 6.5 creed?! (That anyone would actually use)
1st, nice flex with the 2 Jae chassis' there. 2nd, if you think that a lot of people that complain about burning out barrels, won't ever burn out a barrel, think again. Piet just showed approximate cost for a burnout. For most people, with a bolt action, they'll never be able to shoot that much, but anyone with a semi auto 6.5 will. An ar10, m1a, or scar 17/20 in 6.5 will burn ammo like crazy. One box of ammo for a bolt action is about 5-10 min. worth of fun. In an ar 10, that's about 2 min. A good day at the range with one will be about 1-150 rds. I will say think about about a day shooting an ar 10 6.5 cm, 18in, with muscle brake.
I have a T3x lite 300 win mag. I’ve shot roughly 900 rounds (20 per box, $102.99 after tax).. 45 boxes cost me 4600 CAD in the last 15 months. Testing it, hunting with it. Range day with it etc. to think I’ve shot almost 1000 out of probably 5000 round barrel life, is crazy but the amount itself… 900 is a lot. A 28 nosler will last anyone a life time if it’s strictly just a hunting rifle and not an everythibg rifle like my Tikka is
Can I fit tikka m55 action into that mdt stock you have in front of you 243cal
Thanks for the insight on barrel replacement cost. Having said that, did you get a 338 LM yet?
I have an oom that shot aout two of his 30 06 barrels within a month of each other but he is about 70 now, and my cousin shot out his dads 30 06 ackley last year as well it was second hand but it had a new barrel when my uncle got it.
What does that rifle on the table weigh? As is with optic and suppressor. Thank you!
Could you do a vid on 7.62 vs 65 cred
What is one looking at pice-wise for a replacement barrel. Must be a lot of various product in different prices. Just wondering?
Christiansen arms has that carbon fiber barrel. I doubt I'll ever have t replace it
Shooting here in Canada is extremely expensive as well. Looking at about $97 for a box of Berger 140 hybrids. For fed 210M ppl are selling them for about 400$ per 1000. And I’ve seen higher. No stores have them in stock and most used powder like varget or 4350 are about 90$ a pound.
I only buy when stuff is on sale at this point.
The difference in many countries is when you get a barrel blank chambered it takes half a year of lead time to order one, and then starts the next half year wait on the gunsmithing work.. which only begins once they receive your rifle.
All the while hoping the gunsmith is competent enough not to ruin your gear because there are really no big name gunsmiths around.
You can't pay to avoid that inconvenience like you can with handloading.
Sounds like if you live in that country you should try to get rifles with interchangeable barrels
I've got close to 5000 rounds through my Christensen arms MPR 6.5 Creedmoor that I bought a little over 2 years ago. I'm just like you Pete I don't run them hot. By the way, I need some more baboon videos!
That is impressive.
I second the baboon video request
Haha. You are 100% correct. Thats why “saving” money buying a button rifled barrel isn’t really saving money. Cut rifled only. Cleans better. Lasts longer and typically will shoot better
We want a final review on that howa!
I shoot 20 twice a Week and about 40 Weeks a year. This is about 1600 shots, one shot is about 1€, so let’s say 2000€ including reloading equipment. To change a barrel is about 1500€ here for an average barrel (not Shilen or comparable). If a barrel gives me 1500 rounds, I pay every the ammo twice. A 308 gives you 20.000 rounds. This is reducing barrel coast from 1500 a year to 150 a year. And where I come from a 6,5 creed round is even more expensive than a 308 round, a 6 creed is even twice as much. We shoot up to 300 yard. A 308 can do that. No worries.
Pure gold and fact based 👌
Can we get a bullet vs twist rate video showing how fast & slow twist rates effect light vs heavy bullets
I built an AR with a white oak armament barrel and looking at another barrel because they are awesome. I cant wait to see how many rounds i can get out of it.
Love your work MR 💪✌️❤️
Since 2020, ammo is much more expensive and so are reloading components. Dry practice and 22lr can help lower the cost.
I've been shooting what I think is an above average amount in the USA for about 30 years. I have only seen two barrels shot out. Both of them were 20+ year old used rifles.
I have only personally burned out MG barrels due to excessive throat erosion myself, but know two high volume varmint hunters and a silhouette shooter who legitimately shoot out barrels and all three just consider it a price of the hobby. I have bought a couple of firearms that had "shot out barrels" and spent many hours cleaning them to fix the accuracy issue that made the prior owner claim that it was shot out. Also just had to get an inch wacked off another barrel and recrowned because the prior owner did not know how to properly clean it and had damaged the rifling origin. He also claimed it was shot out. So take the 17%'s response with a grain of salt.
internet experts are experts at internet, and not much else.
I finally have a dialed AR308 I enjoy shooting. By the time I shoot out the barrel I'm looking at over $5000 in factory ammo. That'll give me an excuse to rebuild the upper with a 14.5" 6.5cm barrel.
YE I need to try that excuse with my wife! My old standby "because I want it" isn't working anymore.
Accuracy and velocity are ways to determine if a barrel is shot out. But the real thing to look at is how much the barrel is effecting the BC of the bullet. As the barrel hardens and fire cracks it will start to deform the bullet more of time. This type of thing you’ll only notice at long distance.