Don’t forget to check out the SAC infinity die. Also make sure you thank them for sponsoring this episode. shortactioncustoms.com/product/infinity-aps-die/
Erik's dressed like the sponsored athlete he is while Frank is dressed like a dad, who happens to lead a world-renowned company. Regardless of wardrobes, both men are sophisticated, confident in their craft, and compliment each other with their communication skills. Again, Erik's interviews with Frank are among his best. Great work, Erik, and thank you, Frank!!!
It's very interesting you brought up the workforce. That goes for plumbers, electricians any of the trades. Maybe introduce smithing into a video game where the benefits of the skilled armoror would be sought out by other players. Not everybody has to be a combatant to be recognized or awarded. Somehow introducing metallurgy and composition to create a more effective weapon, where the information has to be researched. I'm not a gamer but I've seen my kids play games where they unlocked upgrades that they could then trade or even sell. I'm not sure how to implement any of that but kids spend a lot of time playing games and I feel it's a medium to introduce them to new skills.
4:30 very good point. Comparisons not always make sense. I like that Frank is very responsive to his customers both per e-mail and on the Hide. Thank you, Sir.
Thanks again Gentlemen. Started out out as Diesel Mechanic and Retired as Water Treatment operator. Worked for ten years in missile defence as propellent void and burn rate tester. I have always been a hunter and a gun nerd. Always searching one hole rifles and perfection.
Mauser figured out in the 1930s that if you tighten the boar about 2,000 under the bullet size and the 7 mm range it would actually make the rifle considerably more accurate. Admittedly. He said the board would only last about 1,500 rounds but most people don't fire that many rounds in 10 years. He's got a rifle that can actually outlives one or two people and never fire the 1,500 rounds it would take to wear it out. If you talk about just getting a rifle sighted in. Been shooting a few shots at deer and then doing that every year with 6 to 10 Rounds. That's a lot of years you got before you wear that rifle out. And have you tried that? Most bench rest shooters aren't shooting more than 1,500 to 2000 rounds anyway before they change out the barrels
Great interview between you both .Thanks for all the effort you put into these videos to help the consumers. You guys have me scared I have been using bronze brushes with a patch wrapped on it and JB for years in my Benchrest barrels . I only have had one 6 ml 5 R bartlein barrel that shot very well ,sold the gun and kicked myself ever since . My gunsmith is 89 years old and still uses the old school equipment with great results.When he is done I will have to send actions hundreds of miles away to get barrels chambered because there’s know body coming up to carry this trade on into the future.Young people today want everything like instant coffee and don’t want to put time in to learn anything .It’s a sad thing for the future of our country’s.If Google can’t show you don’t put the effort in to learn!
I bought a bartlein barrel this past year, 300 win mag Navy A-191 chamber, in their 400 mod bb steel, absolutely beautiful machining, I'll never sell it with the defiance action I have on it.
This was absolutely superb. I just had GAP install a replacement 6 GT Bartlein and around December they will build a new 6.5 CR using the Bartlein 400 steel. Excellent barrels.
Loved this podcast. I'm new to this relatively speaking. (About 3 years) I enjoy learning more than anything. With my construction trades through the years I have been obsessed with quality and I find that transfers to shooting sports. It's so nice to see and hear people that care a lot about quality and accuracy. Seems to be getting rare now days. Very enjoyable, Thank you.
Yes old school die makers.. Started out as a die setter for Repco in Australia. Setting up machines and quality control. How things have changed in the world. Keep up the great work
I use frog lube extreme with a bore snake. I removed the brass brush from the bore snake. I run it through my barrel 3 times and it’s clean. I do this once or twice a season. I’ve had good results with this arrangement. I think most people overthink barrel cleaning. Just my two cents.
I have a Bartlein .458" 18 twist 5R barrel chambered for 45-70. I have only used black powder shooting black powder silhouette. It by far the BEST barrel I have. I'm not the only one.😊
As a previous Project engineer at Lockheed, I can tell you that the law of diminishing returns is not going to be a simple solution like add a machine. You need to do a ton of changes to add that 1 machine. You need to add hr staff, add accounting staff, add electrical service, add ventilation, buy larger safety sterilization cabinets, order more fluids, train more operators for support equipment and renegotiate materials to machine, etc.... then you add the machine. This is just a brief explanation.
I have a few decades of experience with Cryo treating. And he is on the right path that there is no significant, or should be no significant performance increase directly. We found it cryo-treating of metallic components from internal engine, parts, transmission, gears, shafts, etc. simply helps to align the material on a molecular level, which could potentially allow more consistent stress through a piece of metal. Some thoughts are that you can improve machine, ability, harmonics, etc. But it’s no magic bullet it’s just help align the molecules. The fact is that there’s been no measurable differences outside of the molecular alignment that it helps anything. But since we definitely can see, there is a molecular alignment. It keeps all of us always wondering about it.
Nice session worthy of waaay more views and a PART 3... The one thing that I was waiting to hear mention of... was... let's say driving bands... . An ex NBRSA NATS winner..., another gunsmith friend, and I went over 1300 hours of forensic NDT, which ended up with a few thousand dollars of barrels being sectioned out. This took an inordinant sacrifice... but... gained answers to questions that arose when I had started as a pistolsmith... BR- 50, 3 gun, up to 200yd. BR, etcetera... competitor. Nobody could or would answer these questions and concerns... ALL to do with what I did and did not see in barrels with a practical eye. I have kept quiet about what we did... our agreement was between Red Cornellison, Sam Lair, and myself... Wayne Blacketter was allowed in, as he was tied up let's say. I have and will say again " RIP " my friends, I'll see you soon. So... it would take someone who has a belief and or desire to finish it... to what end? There is validity, in this and we had 3 barrels left of the 12 that we had made... those attributes ALL printed in the lower 10% ( .100's )of all barrels known by FIVE of us. The Fifth is on his upon his last days... not doing that. So... look forward to talking with you some sunny day my friend. Enjoyed the reaffirmation in your video! Respectfully, Seth
I loved this video I set and lesson something I don't knot know but I did learn . I am an old man, and it's nice to learn now, too. Thank you I am fighting for my life with cancer now and your videos give me a little please in life . God bless yall so much . Old man Cliff
The part about the 6 groove barrels consistently putting a burr on the jackets is interesting, but I found it interesting that they did not compare conventional four groove to 5R, since the four grooves are pretty much the rule in a lot of competition, and six grooves are much less common. Also, the clarification about the use of abrasive cleaners was good to see. The real jewel in this interview is the discussion about barrel bore and groove dimension relative to bullet diameter, and how that relates to accuracy. A friend casts laps for the purpose of determining groove diameter and to see if there are tight or loose spots in the bore. He does this before he does any machining.
Best 90 minutes i have spent watching gun videos!! Fantastic interview. I will be buying a Bartlein or a couple of them for sure. Great being able to put a face to the actual product. Even better to hear the passion and the knowledge Frank has for guns and our sport. Well Done Eric. Greetings from South Africa.
AxisWorks in Phoenix is slinging and chambering a Bartlein 6mm barrel chambered in 6mm Creedmore on my Surgeon. I’ve had a good run with Bartlein barrels over the years. My first Bartlein barrel was a 27”er on my Sako TRG-42 chambered in .338 Lapua. That barrel went about 880 rounds before the throat went to barrel heaven. Good stuff Bartlein barrels.
Regarding cryo-treatment of barrels, I spoke with a man who teaches long range shooting, former military sniper, and he stated that what he's noticed is barrels that were not cryo-treated tend to walk/string earlier and more frequently as the barrel gets hot with frequent firings. So his preference is a company that currently triple stress relieves their barrels.
@@BelieveTheTarget Well, that's my experience also. I've got over 12 Brux barrels right beside me not including what's on my current rifles. I have 4 Bartlein barrels also. I'll see Ken in Lodi in the next couple of months to pick up more
Bartlein does make good barrels, but if by chance you get a bad one, do not expect them to make it right. I have gotten several good barrels from Bartlein, but the LAST one I got was BAD, had pressure, copper fouled within 30 rounds after cleaning. Bartlein would not talk to me about making it right. I have no intention of buying another Bartlein. I had a Hawk Hill that wasn't right, they took care of it, but they have changed hands. I am currently using Krieger and so far I am well pleased.
I worked for fords.. Qa team.. Testing steel.. This man realy knows his stuff.. Next barrel will come from him. I'm impressed.... This type of experience is slowly getting lost
I recently left medical school(because a lot of the stuff they're pushing, 99.999% of people would not believe is actually happening, and I wasn't willing to sell my soul for a title and a paycheck) at 37 years old, bought a CNC mill, and now I'm in the process of teaching myself how to use it... Currently trying to learn mill-turning, BTW looking for ER40 and ER50 collet holders with custom 3/4" straight shanks if anyone is interested in making those for pay, let me know😋 Anyway, keep up the good work guys, one day, I hope to be half the machinist and business men that y'all are!
@@BelieveTheTarget No Sir. They are to hold round stock, not tools. I'm trying to do mill-turning(using my mill as a lathe) with the stock in the spindle and the tools mounted in the vise/ on the table. The parts are not large(7/8" round stock 2"-3" long) and are not complicated. 95% of what I want to do, is done with a mill, so that's what I bought. I don't have access to a lathe or the room or money, even for a mini one. So for the few parts that have to be turned I'm doing them on the mill(teaching myself how to). My options are TTS ER40 and ER50 collet holders, or take out my R8 collet(a bigger pain switching back and forth) and use R8 ER collet holders or an R8 adapter on a 3 or 4 jaw 3" to 6" chuck(more mass and bulk on the spindle). So the TTS collet holders are currently the best option, however they don't exist in ER40 or ER50 sizes(from Tormach or anywhere else), so I'm currently searching for someone willing to make them.
Velly Goot Ambition to pursue. Lotsa Older folks still wid us Possess information we Oughta chat about so it's not LOST from memory. Examples are Gunsmithing but the Pioneers crossing this country tossed a SILVER Coin into the Milk Bucket to Keep the bacteria Away.
Two very smart and interesting individuals! Great conversation. Also a shame that the American craftsman is truly a dying breed - love what you do and do what you love!
Does the Tubb break-in projectiles work? I'm very interested to see if they are good at polishing the throat off or are they a dud? I assume they would leave deposits in your barrel, but I may be wrong. Anyone with experience?
Ditto on cryo being witchcraft. I'm and engineer and machinist. We did an in depth studies in both cryo and vibratory stress relief. In both instances, data never suggested either improved.
Great interview. Love listening to Frank and his experience with manufacturing. Bartlein are top of my list for a Tikka rebarrel. Sounds like I'll need to order well in advance as I fancy a .257 calibre.
I think that question is valid but unfortunately you can run two barrels from one long cut of steel and the properties be different enough to where even those 2 shoot differently despite same bar stock and manufactured one right after the other, even if cut identically. I have 5R and 4 groove and a gain twist barrel, all cut-rifled. I'm still trying to find an answer to your same question. One conclusion I have seen definitely is my one gain twist Bartlein barrel is a complete custom 6.5-284 Norma with a Stiller Predator action. No matter what I've put through it for the 12 or so years I've had it, nothing shoots over 1/2" at 100 yards - even when I'm working up pressure loads with new bullets to find max. That barrel is a 5R if I recall correctly
Great interview most all of these interviews I don’t think I need but it’s always a great time and I always walk away learning some new things it’s pretty cool thank you and every once in awhile there’s some pretty good funny’s
The theory behind odd numbered groves is that there is less pressure on the lead core and potentially less jacket damage. The problem is that it doesn’t show up on the target. Edit: years ago there were informal studies of bullets (typically hot rodded 6mm Rem) in rifle cut barrels vs button rifled barrels. The depth of the rifling of the button rifled barrels was less than the cut rifled barrels. The edge of the bore was sharper (and supposedly damaged the jacket more). As I recall it (it was published in Precision Shooting), an engineer calculated the revolutions per second that the jacket would fail based on the material strength of the jacket at its damaged thickness. It was also concluded that properly moly coated bullets suffered less damage when being engraved in the rifling. 5R rifling supposedly does less damage to the jacket. I’ll be very interested to see the results of the present study and if it confirms the above or not.
Thanks for posting this about the informal study you briefly talked about. Between that and a few things that Frank mentioned in this video / interview with Erik, the engineer in my got to thinking and the metaphorical lightbulb turned on in my head about something that I don't think anyone has considered.
Rimfire shooters have known this for a long time. We shoot barrels known as mi (minimally invasive) rifling. Dan muller has been making mi barrels for at least 12 years. Shioen has made the ratchet for a long time as well and they dominate rimfire br.
May be a silly question but I'll ask anyway. When they receive the barrel blanks do they test the quality of the lot? He spoke on getting it straight from the mill certified but people lie to cut costs. I see a lot of barrel manufacturers claim they test each barrel then it comes out they only check one in 100. Same with tooling wear?
Well sir, it's very interesting that you shoot Brux Barrel's. What do you think of Mr 1/4 Minute Magnums that is having such dramas with a 33XC and the two separate Brux Barrel's that he chambered and fitted to the same rifle? And my next barrel is going to be a Bartlein, just because Frank seems like such a nice guy and incredibly honest and direct. That's really rare these days.
Idk who 1/4 Minute magnums is, but if I install two barrels back to back from any reputable barrel maker and they don’t shoot, I’m going to blame the rifle.
Great video guys! Very informative. Still need a conversation about the pros and cons of shooting solids, and potential difficulties in shooting them. Great interrogation though Erik.
I'm a cnc machinists and most of the new guys for the past 2 to 3 years have claimed to be machinist but can only push that green button, I'm having to teach each and every single one of them and most end up quitting or getting fired after 6 months or so. None have that drive to learn, none take notes anymore. Sad world we're heading towards.
Boss i have a question if we put custom barrel on cz 600 can it produce 20 shot accuracy in 5 minus shooting ? I hope you understand im sorry for my english
Kroil isn't an abrasive. It will be fine unless you're dragging a ton of dirt through with it. Always a good idea to rinse your brushes. I'd suggest you try a top quality nylon brush like the iosso blue though. I've nearly stopped using bronze brushes completely. I shoot three different 6mm and clean to bare metal every time I shoot and my blue iosso nylon brush is still going strong after a year and easily a 150 cleaning sessions.
I wish he would discuss carbon fiber barrels more, I know they are not for competition but for precision hunting rifles ,,, I'm fixing to order one for a short action project with Terminus action
The top Benchrest shooter that’s ever lived shot his way into the hall of fame with a wrap patch on a BRONZE brush with JB’s, same for Faye and Smiley 😊 My question is, has a 5 grove ever won a Benchrest match?
My only question was not asked, hey Frank, when we gonna see your barrels over here in the UK I had to chamber my last F Class rifle with other type barrels as the guy who supplies them to me here has none left Very disappointing to not have access to barrels i find to be the best
12:58 I wonder if Frank (or anyone for that matter) has ever tried to make a profiled cutter to make "cut" 5R rifled barrel (or any #R rifling for that matter).
You can make the cutter head cut with a radius. You can do 5R with cut rifling or broaches or with CHF mandrel. I do not know where you got the idea 5R has to be done with a button?
@@buckaroobonsi555 I never said of implied that the "had" to be done with a button and I know damn well that the cutter can be made but that doesn't in any way, shape or form mean that someone actually *"has'* and made barrels either for production or testing. Maybe I should have been more clear on the "and made barrels" aspect but I would have figured that that would be be pretty obvious because why would you make a specialty cutter then never use it.
Im 53 and wished i could change professions. Ive been driving 18 wheelers for 32 years. After being into reloading and precision rifles. I should have went to a trade school
I am a dunce when it comes to cleaning i figure if break free and a standar military issue kit with the copper/bronze brush followed by a patch and a nylon scrub brush for the inside of the reciever is good for the best fighting force in the world then its good enough for me im not planning on fighting a war or shooting out past 1,000 yards and ive not messed anything up yet
if i have a straight contoured barrel, and the chamber end is wearing out due to high round count , can I refit the muzzle end to the action and chopp off the old chamber and make a new barrel ？ LOL
The 22 cal guy with 10,000 rounds. I would have a barrel made for that ammo. When I purchase a new Bartlein 22LR Barrel, I have it lot tested, then I purchase 5-10k rounds to match that barrel, only for use in that firearm. Remember, what shoots great 50 yards, might not group well at 100-400 yards. You have to lot test, if you want to be competitive. Only accurate rifles count, the rest you trade off or sell. Don’t waste your time or money. Pay once for the best, and you’ll be happy…
Good question about a barrel making apprenticeship or class. It does not sound like they are cultivating their workforce for the future and once the current employees are too old to work they will just be losing people and eventually not make it.
I’m an electrician and we have the same problem. Can’t find anyone. The average age of an electrician these days is about 45. Even with prevailing wage rates approaching 3 digits per hour, we still can’t find anyone.
Don’t forget to check out the SAC infinity die. Also make sure you thank them for sponsoring this episode.
shortactioncustoms.com/product/infinity-aps-die/
I bought your EC2 Tuner and had it sent to Speedy. Did you say that it comes with paperwork?
Erik's dressed like the sponsored athlete he is while Frank is dressed like a dad, who happens to lead a world-renowned company. Regardless of wardrobes, both men are sophisticated, confident in their craft, and compliment each other with their communication skills. Again, Erik's interviews with Frank are among his best. Great work, Erik, and thank you, Frank!!!
Thank you
It's very interesting you brought up the workforce. That goes for plumbers, electricians any of the trades. Maybe introduce smithing into a video game where the benefits of the skilled armoror would be sought out by other players. Not everybody has to be a combatant to be recognized or awarded. Somehow introducing metallurgy and composition to create a more effective weapon, where the information has to be researched. I'm not a gamer but I've seen my kids play games where they unlocked upgrades that they could then trade or even sell. I'm not sure how to implement any of that but kids spend a lot of time playing games and I feel it's a medium to introduce them to new skills.
I built a custom cz455 rimfire and putting a Bartlein Barrel on it made more of a difference than everything else combined.
Frank, Kenny, John, all WI barrel makers. All huge wealths of knowledge. Great interviews.
Thank you
4:30 very good point. Comparisons not always make sense. I like that Frank is very responsive to his customers both per e-mail and on the Hide. Thank you, Sir.
Well said!
Thanks again Gentlemen. Started out out as Diesel Mechanic and Retired as Water Treatment operator. Worked for ten years in missile defence as propellent void and burn rate tester. I have always been a hunter and a gun nerd. Always searching one hole rifles and perfection.
Mauser figured out in the 1930s that if you tighten the boar about 2,000 under the bullet size and the 7 mm range it would actually make the rifle considerably more accurate. Admittedly. He said the board would only last about 1,500 rounds but most people don't fire that many rounds in 10 years. He's got a rifle that can actually outlives one or two people and never fire the 1,500 rounds it would take to wear it out. If you talk about just getting a rifle sighted in. Been shooting a few shots at deer and then doing that every year with 6 to 10 Rounds. That's a lot of years you got before you wear that rifle out. And have you tried that? Most bench rest shooters aren't shooting more than 1,500 to 2000 rounds anyway before they change out the barrels
Thank you Frank and Eric for this talk.
Our pleasure!
Great interview between you both .Thanks for all the effort you put into these videos to help the consumers. You guys have me scared I have been using bronze brushes with a patch wrapped on it and JB for years in my Benchrest barrels . I only have had one 6 ml 5 R bartlein barrel that shot very well ,sold the gun and kicked myself ever since .
My gunsmith is 89 years old and still uses the old school equipment with great results.When he is done I will have to send actions hundreds of miles away to get barrels chambered because there’s know body coming up to carry this trade on into the future.Young people today want everything like instant coffee and don’t want to put time in to learn anything .It’s a sad thing for the future of our country’s.If Google can’t show you don’t put the effort in to learn!
I bought a bartlein barrel this past year, 300 win mag Navy A-191 chamber, in their 400 mod bb steel, absolutely beautiful machining, I'll never sell it with the defiance action I have on it.
This was absolutely superb. I just had GAP install a replacement 6 GT Bartlein and around December they will build a new 6.5 CR using the Bartlein 400 steel. Excellent barrels.
Your machinist conversation was interesting. I grew up in a shop. I can say it definitely has craft experience and artistic components.
Just picked up my third Bartlein gain twist service rifle barrel. The first two shot fantastically well. Keep up the great work Frank!
Loved this podcast. I'm new to this relatively speaking. (About 3 years) I enjoy learning more than anything. With my construction trades through the years I have been obsessed with quality and I find that transfers to shooting sports. It's so nice to see and hear people that care a lot about quality and accuracy. Seems to be getting rare now days.
Very enjoyable,
Thank you.
Yes old school die makers.. Started out as a die setter for Repco in Australia. Setting up machines and quality control.
How things have changed in the world.
Keep up the great work
I use frog lube extreme with a bore snake. I removed the brass brush from the bore snake. I run it through my barrel 3 times and it’s clean. I do this once or twice a season. I’ve had good results with this arrangement. I think most people overthink barrel cleaning. Just my two cents.
I have a Bartlein .458" 18 twist 5R barrel chambered for 45-70. I have only used black powder shooting black powder silhouette. It by far the BEST barrel I have. I'm not the only one.😊
Iosso nylon brushes with their Bore Paste (non-abrasive) work like a charm for heavy cleaning (e.g. carbon rings).
As a previous Project engineer at Lockheed, I can tell you that the law of diminishing returns is not going to be a simple solution like add a machine. You need to do a ton of changes to add that 1 machine. You need to add hr staff, add accounting staff, add electrical service, add ventilation, buy larger safety sterilization cabinets, order more fluids, train more operators for support equipment and renegotiate materials to machine, etc.... then you add the machine. This is just a brief explanation.
I have a few decades of experience with Cryo treating. And he is on the right path that there is no significant, or should be no significant performance increase directly. We found it cryo-treating of metallic components from internal engine, parts, transmission, gears, shafts, etc. simply helps to align the material on a molecular level, which could potentially allow more consistent stress through a piece of metal. Some thoughts are that you can improve machine, ability, harmonics, etc. But it’s no magic bullet it’s just help align the molecules.
The fact is that there’s been no measurable differences outside of the molecular alignment that it helps anything. But since we definitely can see, there is a molecular alignment. It keeps all of us always wondering about it.
Interesting. Thank you
Nice session worthy of waaay more views and a PART 3... The one thing that I was waiting to hear mention of... was... let's say driving bands... .
An ex NBRSA NATS winner..., another gunsmith friend, and I went over 1300 hours of forensic NDT, which ended up with a few thousand dollars of barrels being sectioned out. This took an inordinant sacrifice... but... gained answers to questions that arose when I had started as a pistolsmith... BR- 50, 3 gun, up to 200yd. BR, etcetera... competitor. Nobody could or would answer these questions and concerns... ALL to do with what I did and did not see in barrels with a practical eye. I have kept quiet about what we did... our agreement was between Red Cornellison, Sam Lair, and myself... Wayne Blacketter was allowed in, as he was tied up let's say. I have and will say again " RIP " my friends, I'll see you soon.
So... it would take someone who has a belief and or desire to finish it... to what end? There is validity, in this and we had 3 barrels left of the 12 that we had made... those attributes ALL printed in the lower 10% ( .100's )of all barrels known by FIVE of us. The Fifth is on his upon his last days... not doing that. So... look forward to talking with you some sunny day my friend.
Enjoyed the reaffirmation in your video!
Respectfully, Seth
I loved this video I set and lesson something I don't knot know but I did learn .
I am an old man, and it's nice to learn now, too. Thank you I am fighting for my life with cancer now and your videos give me a little please in life .
God bless yall so much .
Old man Cliff
Thank you
Big Clif Blessings to you and . Easier Peasy wid the [Cancer] you have.
I think Frank has Shine On You Crazy Diamond as a ring tone, very cool!
Both are great ambassadors to F class shooting !!!
The part about the 6 groove barrels consistently putting a burr on the jackets is interesting, but I found it interesting that they did not compare conventional four groove to 5R, since the four grooves are pretty much the rule in a lot of competition, and six grooves are much less common. Also, the clarification about the use of abrasive cleaners was good to see. The real jewel in this interview is the discussion about barrel bore and groove dimension relative to bullet diameter, and how that relates to accuracy. A friend casts laps for the purpose of determining groove diameter and to see if there are tight or loose spots in the bore. He does this before he does any machining.
Best 90 minutes i have spent watching gun videos!! Fantastic interview. I will be buying a Bartlein or a couple of them for sure. Great being able to put a face to the actual product. Even better to hear the passion and the knowledge Frank has for guns and our sport. Well Done Eric. Greetings from South Africa.
Thank you. FYI, this is the second interview I have done with him.
Great interview with lots of information. Bartlein has been my favorite barrel and Frank is an outstanding, super nice man.
Thank you
AxisWorks in Phoenix is slinging and chambering a Bartlein 6mm barrel chambered in 6mm Creedmore on my Surgeon. I’ve had a good run with Bartlein barrels over the years. My first Bartlein barrel was a 27”er on my Sako TRG-42 chambered in .338 Lapua. That barrel went about 880 rounds before the throat went to barrel heaven. Good stuff Bartlein barrels.
Great info. I have Dasher barrels in 4 & 5 grove. They both shoot good enough for PRS and hunting applications.
I have never try a Brux barrel but I love Bartlein barrel and thinking about getting another one.
Regarding cryo-treatment of barrels, I spoke with a man who teaches long range shooting, former military sniper, and he stated that what he's noticed is barrels that were not cryo-treated tend to walk/string earlier and more frequently as the barrel gets hot with frequent firings. So his preference is a company that currently triple stress relieves their barrels.
Bartlein and Brux does not cryo treat their barrels and they don’t walk.
@@BelieveTheTarget Well, that's my experience also. I've got over 12 Brux barrels right beside me not including what's on my current rifles. I have 4 Bartlein barrels also. I'll see Ken in Lodi in the next couple of months to pick up more
@@BelieveTheTarget Plus I think that instructor was referring to smaller contour hunting sporter barrels - #3s and smaller
The barrel twist info is something I never thought about. Good stuff
Bartlein does make good barrels, but if by chance you get a bad one, do not expect them to make it right.
I have gotten several good barrels from Bartlein, but the LAST one I got was BAD, had pressure, copper fouled within 30 rounds after cleaning. Bartlein would not talk to me about making it right. I have no intention of buying another Bartlein.
I had a Hawk Hill that wasn't right, they took care of it, but they have changed hands. I am currently using Krieger and so far I am well pleased.
I worked for fords.. Qa team.. Testing steel..
This man realy knows his stuff..
Next barrel will come from him.
I'm impressed.... This type of experience is slowly getting lost
I recently left medical school(because a lot of the stuff they're pushing, 99.999% of people would not believe is actually happening, and I wasn't willing to sell my soul for a title and a paycheck) at 37 years old, bought a CNC mill, and now I'm in the process of teaching myself how to use it...
Currently trying to learn mill-turning, BTW looking for ER40 and ER50 collet holders with custom 3/4" straight shanks if anyone is interested in making those for pay, let me know😋
Anyway, keep up the good work guys, one day, I hope to be half the machinist and business men that y'all are!
Sounds like you are trying to run large tools on a small mill?
@@BelieveTheTarget No Sir. They are to hold round stock, not tools. I'm trying to do mill-turning(using my mill as a lathe) with the stock in the spindle and the tools mounted in the vise/ on the table. The parts are not large(7/8" round stock 2"-3" long) and are not complicated. 95% of what I want to do, is done with a mill, so that's what I bought. I don't have access to a lathe or the room or money, even for a mini one. So for the few parts that have to be turned I'm doing them on the mill(teaching myself how to). My options are TTS ER40 and ER50 collet holders, or take out my R8 collet(a bigger pain switching back and forth) and use R8 ER collet holders or an R8 adapter on a 3 or 4 jaw 3" to 6" chuck(more mass and bulk on the spindle). So the TTS collet holders are currently the best option, however they don't exist in ER40 or ER50 sizes(from Tormach or anywhere else), so I'm currently searching for someone willing to make them.
Regarding the first part of your reply…good for you man.
@@chargerguy74 lol thanks bud
Velly Goot Ambition to pursue. Lotsa Older folks still wid us Possess information we Oughta chat about so it's not LOST from memory. Examples are Gunsmithing but the Pioneers crossing this country tossed a SILVER Coin into the Milk Bucket to Keep the bacteria Away.
Two very smart and interesting individuals! Great conversation. Also a shame that the American craftsman is truly a dying breed - love what you do and do what you love!
Always fascinating series thanks Erik. Thoroughly enjoyed this one 😎👍
Thank you
Does the Tubb break-in projectiles work? I'm very interested to see if they are good at polishing the throat off or are they a dud? I assume they would leave deposits in your barrel, but I may be wrong.
Anyone with experience?
I have a mod 400 barrel and it is amazing, couldn't be happier.
Awesome
Excellent! Thank you, both.
Our pleasure!
From what I have seen, a 5 groove barrel seals better, bringing up velocity and stabilizes better.
Good job guys, enjoyed listening. I'll def check out Bartlein Barrels if I ever decide to make my own custom
Ditto on cryo being witchcraft. I'm and engineer and machinist. We did an in depth studies in both cryo and vibratory stress relief. In both instances, data never suggested either improved.
Hope to see Air Rifle Pellet barrels in the future, large market will be coming IMO.
Great interview. Love listening to Frank and his experience with manufacturing. Bartlein are top of my list for a Tikka rebarrel. Sounds like I'll need to order well in advance as I fancy a .257 calibre.
Great info. This was one of the best learning episodes I have ever watched! 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Great interview... I learned somethings... time was well spent to listening to Frank...
Glad you enjoyed it!
With everything else being equal, do the 4-groove barrels produce faster velocities over the 5R barrels?
I think that question is valid but unfortunately you can run two barrels from one long cut of steel and the properties be different enough to where even those 2 shoot differently despite same bar stock and manufactured one right after the other, even if cut identically. I have 5R and 4 groove and a gain twist barrel, all cut-rifled. I'm still trying to find an answer to your same question. One conclusion I have seen definitely is my one gain twist Bartlein barrel is a complete custom 6.5-284 Norma with a Stiller Predator action. No matter what I've put through it for the 12 or so years I've had it, nothing shoots over 1/2" at 100 yards - even when I'm working up pressure loads with new bullets to find max. That barrel is a 5R if I recall correctly
One of your better interviews, Erik.
Great interview most all of these interviews I don’t think I need but it’s always a great time and I always walk away learning some new things it’s pretty cool thank you and every once in awhile there’s some pretty good funny’s
Thanks for listening
Once again .....Outstanding info .You have to take a chance on 16 /18 year old guys or girls. Its a big risk but the right ones listen and learn Quick
Is JB Bore paste an abrasive?
I'd love to see u interview hammer bullets guys with your interview knowledge. I use their bullets hunting
Such a great episode! Love the exchange of knowledge.
Thank you
Man if there was a way to relocate back home to TX I would LOVE to work for Erik or somewhere in the precision rifle industry
@Believethetarget what a wealth of knowledge Frank is thank you for sharing Erik.
Flipping through the new youtube videos this evening and i see 'Frank Green'. I'm always available to listen to Frank! Thanks guys! 👍
Thanks for listening
The theory behind odd numbered groves is that there is less pressure on the lead core and potentially less jacket damage. The problem is that it doesn’t show up on the target.
Edit: years ago there were informal studies of bullets (typically hot rodded 6mm Rem) in rifle cut barrels vs button rifled barrels. The depth of the rifling of the button rifled barrels was less than the cut rifled barrels. The edge of the bore was sharper (and supposedly damaged the jacket more). As I recall it (it was published in Precision Shooting), an engineer calculated the revolutions per second that the jacket would fail based on the material strength of the jacket at its damaged thickness. It was also concluded that properly moly coated bullets suffered less damage when being engraved in the rifling. 5R rifling supposedly does less damage to the jacket.
I’ll be very interested to see the results of the present study and if it confirms the above or not.
Thanks for posting this about the informal study you briefly talked about. Between that and a few things that Frank mentioned in this video / interview with Erik, the engineer in my got to thinking and the metaphorical lightbulb turned on in my head about something that I don't think anyone has considered.
Rimfire shooters have known this for a long time. We shoot barrels known as mi (minimally invasive) rifling. Dan muller has been making mi barrels for at least 12 years. Shioen has made the ratchet for a long time as well and they dominate rimfire br.
May be a silly question but I'll ask anyway. When they receive the barrel blanks do they test the quality of the lot? He spoke on getting it straight from the mill certified but people lie to cut costs. I see a lot of barrel manufacturers claim they test each barrel then it comes out they only check one in 100. Same with tooling wear?
Well sir, it's very interesting that you shoot Brux Barrel's. What do you think of Mr 1/4 Minute Magnums that is having such dramas with a 33XC and the two separate Brux Barrel's that he chambered and fitted to the same rifle? And my next barrel is going to be a Bartlein, just because Frank seems like such a nice guy and incredibly honest and direct. That's really rare these days.
Idk who 1/4 Minute magnums is, but if I install two barrels back to back from any reputable barrel maker and they don’t shoot, I’m going to blame the rifle.
Good info. This is very pertinent to premium barrels.
On the firecracking, how deep does it go? Could you pull the barrel, cut 1/2" off the chamber end, rechamber and get past the firecracking?
Yes. That’s called “setting back” a barrel.
Erik Cortez amigo!!!! We cleaned the Bartlein barrels in many villages together. Do you remember?
Great video, learned alot watching this. Thank you both
Hey Frank, are y’all still doing runs of the 400modbb? I know straight jacket was doing barrels with it for a while and they stopped.
Fantastic interview!!! Thank you. 🐕
Glad you enjoyed it!
How do you spiral an ED,M? How about graphite button on an EDM? And rotate the button or rotate the barrel.
Great video guys! Very informative. Still need a conversation about the pros and cons of shooting solids, and potential difficulties in shooting them. Great interrogation though Erik.
Thank you
Another great interview 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
I'm a cnc machinists and most of the new guys for the past 2 to 3 years have claimed to be machinist but can only push that green button, I'm having to teach each and every single one of them and most end up quitting or getting fired after 6 months or so. None have that drive to learn, none take notes anymore. Sad world we're heading towards.
Great interview! My next barrel will be a Bartlien👍
Boss i have a question if we put custom barrel on cz 600 can it produce 20 shot accuracy in 5 minus shooting ? I hope you understand im sorry for my english
😊ESo, where was the discussion about 4 groove vrs 5 groove?
What is the difference between bartlein barrels and shilen barrels as far as accuracy is concerned?
What about kroil (oil) and a worn bronze brush
Kroil isn't an abrasive. It will be fine unless you're dragging a ton of dirt through with it. Always a good idea to rinse your brushes. I'd suggest you try a top quality nylon brush like the iosso blue though. I've nearly stopped using bronze brushes completely. I shoot three different 6mm and clean to bare metal every time I shoot and my blue iosso nylon brush is still going strong after a year and easily a 150 cleaning sessions.
This generation doesn’t appreciate and understand the satisfaction, skills and pride to work with you’re hands and getting dirty.
Excellent interview indeed!
I wish he would discuss carbon fiber barrels more,
I know they are not for competition but for precision hunting rifles ,,,
I'm fixing to order one for a short action project with Terminus action
The top Benchrest shooter that’s ever lived shot his way into the hall of fame with a wrap patch on a BRONZE brush with JB’s, same for Faye and Smiley 😊 My question is, has a 5 grove ever won a Benchrest match?
If memory serves, I believe Harry Pope advocated odd numbers or lands and grooves.
Retired mechanic ,would love to work in his shop.
My only question was not asked, hey Frank, when we gonna see your barrels over here in the UK
I had to chamber my last F Class rifle with other type barrels as the guy who supplies them to me here has none left
Very disappointing to not have access to barrels i find to be the best
This was a very helpful interview. Thanks. J.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Unfortunately changing a barrel in my country is a lengthy licensing process. It is sometimes easier just to buy an entirely new rifle.
Do you have any videos on tuning rimfires?
Not yet.
super interview, Erik.
Does it make a difference if you cut 3/4” grooves or 5/8” grooves at the end of the barrel?
12:58 I wonder if Frank (or anyone for that matter) has ever tried to make a profiled cutter to make "cut" 5R rifled barrel (or any #R rifling for that matter).
You can make the cutter head cut with a radius. You can do 5R with cut rifling or broaches or with CHF mandrel. I do not know where you got the idea 5R has to be done with a button?
@@buckaroobonsi555 I never said of implied that the "had" to be done with a button and I know damn well that the cutter can be made but that doesn't in any way, shape or form mean that someone actually *"has'* and made barrels either for production or testing.
Maybe I should have been more clear on the "and made barrels" aspect but I would have figured that that would be be pretty obvious because why would you make a specialty cutter then never use it.
Awesome conversation. Barrel's are still black magic but I love the experience and knowledge transfer.
Im 53 and wished i could change professions. Ive been driving 18 wheelers for 32 years.
After being into reloading and precision rifles. I should have went to a trade school
I wish I could have just been born rich…
Great interview God Bless You All.
Thank you
I am a dunce when it comes to cleaning i figure if break free and a standar military issue kit with the copper/bronze brush followed by a patch and a nylon scrub brush for the inside of the reciever is good for the best fighting force in the world then its good enough for me im not planning on fighting a war or shooting out past 1,000 yards and ive not messed anything up yet
if i have a straight contoured barrel, and the chamber end is wearing out due to high round count , can I refit the muzzle end to the action and chopp off the old chamber and make a new barrel ？ LOL
As always, a very interesting podcast.
Thanks for listening
Great content! Thanks Erik.
Glad you liked it!
Thanks to sharing with as this video. Learning process is life time journey .
Absolutely!
I use Bore Tech on my 3 Bartlein barrels and cleaning has never been easier.
The 22 cal guy with 10,000 rounds. I would have a barrel made for that ammo. When I purchase a new Bartlein 22LR Barrel, I have it lot tested, then I purchase 5-10k rounds to match that barrel, only for use in that firearm. Remember, what shoots great 50 yards, might not group well at 100-400 yards. You have to lot test, if you want to be competitive. Only accurate rifles count, the rest you trade off or sell. Don’t waste your time or money. Pay once for the best, and you’ll be happy…
Good question about a barrel making apprenticeship or class. It does not sound like they are cultivating their workforce for the future and once the current employees are too old to work they will just be losing people and eventually not make it.
Awesome! I’ve been waiting for this!
Hope you like it!
I’m an electrician and we have the same problem. Can’t find anyone. The average age of an electrician these days is about 45. Even with prevailing wage rates approaching 3 digits per hour, we still can’t find anyone.