I think it is terrible the way armstrong was treated, especially after having won 7 Tours whilst on drugs. When I was on drugs I couldn't even ride my bike home.
he went tit for tat with whom ever tried to destroy his life. seems fair enough. but that was his downfall in the end. if he would have been low key about like indurain he would be considered one of the best if not the best cyclists of all time
@@marcusk7855 So right..All the top 20 were doping and more..Lance was the best..He was smart on the bike, a master..He trained like a madman and knew what to do and when to do it..Fuck the naysayers..If he was an asshole, then so be it..He was the best damn Tour de France rider ever..
The issue with Lance is that when people started to talk of his doping he tried to bury/ruin them with his gang of lawyers etc. Lance's ego did him in and I doubt the public will ever forgive him.
He did that because haters like Greg lemonds only involved his name with doping and never even bothered to talk about the other 100+ guys who were also doping. It was always just lance
@@abone2pick nah that’s not even half of it. Lance actively snitched on competitors for doping when they became a threat during TDF. He called UCI on Tyler Hamilton for doping when Tyler beat Lance on TDF time trials. He also treated people who were caught as worse than dirt. Floyd Landis partly snitched on him because Lance refused to let him back into important teams after he had served his suspension. It’s one thing to cheat when it’s the reality of the sport but at least do it like a gentleman. And lance was no gentleman and an awful bully.
The problem with armstong is he vilified and tried to ruin the careers of journalists who called him out for steroids. He went after them with such vitriol righteous hatred (videos on youtube) and THAT is why he fucked up.
I don't know what McKneown's definition of vitriol righteous hatred means but it could have crossed the red line of being libel and that is against the law.
For me it wasn't that he roided, I could get over that... it's that he destroyed the lives of some of his former teammates when they came clean. And never apologized, even after he came clean later.
Thank you very much Mike. He still owes stolen prize money as well; all of it was returned. People making comments here need to do some research and they'll find out Lance not only cheated shooting up daily, but is a narcissist as well. Pathological lying and bullying are two of his favorite traits. Ken, Seattle.
Mike Hughes the accusers were cheating too and accused him for personal reasons. And everyone knew everyone was cheating and jealousy drove the accusations. Don’t feel bad for anyone honestly. Maybe we should all stop caring about Olympic, college and professional sports because they are all cheaters.
Its been said already but I'll say it again. Everyone used epo, and did transfusions, it isn't good but it happened. Obviously if he hadn't done any of it he would be incredible, but even while doing it he was incredible. The problem was that he first of all pushed his teammates into using unfair methods, and then destroyed their careers when they blew the whistle. There is no coming back from that.
The reason everyone questioned Armstrong was his absolute dominance. When you watch the current crop of winners they are not riding away from everyone on the mountain top finishes. Having been an amateur racer for 10 years, I have an appreciation for what happens when, in spite of the training required, your body just stops and says no more. I never saw that when he was winning.
@@CAO-sportsmed Pog also had no team mates around him, had run out of food and water because of the Roglic master stroke. He was even asking the team JV car for water.
What Lance had in his peak was an incredible 'VO2Max', and that's regardless of how much "drugs" he took. The VO2Max - a measure of aerobic fitness - is 50% genetic. Lance' VO2Max was not quite as high as Greg LeMond's VO2Max. Greg's was somewhere around 90. And Lance was 86. That's just unheard of. Very few OLYMPIC LEVEL athletes have a VO2Max of 85, let alone over 90! That's why even though everyone else was juiced to the tilt, Lance still beat them all!! And Lance also helped people defeat their cancer, including mine. Yes, I know Lance was hated and sued by many at the time, but I'm biased and always will be for what he did for cancer patients and for how he made ALL OF US BELIEVE WE CAN DEFEAT OUR CANCER!!! AND IT WORKED FOR ME AND MANY OTHERS!!! I'll FOREVER be grateful to Lance Armstrong!
Genetics is huge. I trained with Olympic caliber swimmers growing up, and some of them had such a clear edge over others, and they were rarely the hardest working in the pool.
This exactly, at school we had a pair of brothers who were in the GB Olympic programme as sprinters and I don’t think I even saw them break a sweat while demolishing other schools
It is so refreshing hearing someone who really knows his shit and a bit more, like knowledge of chemistry and biology is far more than just bro science
PEDs are extremely dangerous. They are forbidden not only because it makes sports unfair, but they allso have consequenses on the human body. Just look at the retired atheles in east germany who were forced to take steroids and other substances to enhace their performence. To even consider that all athletes should use PEDs to ”even it out” is nonsense
It's grown ass mans hat your probably one of those man child wiggers who want to become a different race and turn transgender wearing them children's hats 🎩
I had a sub in high school who raced phelps when he was in high school and he mentioned how Phelps does not have lactic acid buildup so he doesn’t get tired
Lance's story is fascinating. He went from the most protected athlete in the world to a paria. While all of his direct rivals were getting suspended for doping, he was portrayed in the media as the clean working guy that escaped death to rise to success. And a few years after he retired, the "truth" was revealed and the same media were acting shocked and throwing him in the mud. I will always wonder why...
What do you mean you'll always wonder why? Thats how it works, "innocent until proven guilty" as they say. During Armstrong's career, specifically his post cancer, pre retirement career, he never tested positive for PEDs. From '99 to '05, he won the Tour de France every year and only ever tested positive for cortisone 1 time, but since he had a doctor retroactively write him a prescription for a topical cream for saddle sores, he wasn't suspended. If he had retired in '05 he may have never been caught, but 3 years later he started watching the Tour on TV, and felt the itch, he couldn't help himself and he returned to cycling with the intention of entering and winning the Tour again. But his behavior caught up with him. USADA began investigating him, and finally enough former teammates were willing to out him. Suddenly all the journalists and associates like Betsy Andreu who had been claiming for years that Armstrong was dirty, were now credible, they were proven correct and were now vindicated. That's why the media turned on Armstrong. They felt foolish, they had been deceived. Despite the dozens and dozens of former riders and journalists that claimed Lance used PEDs, the media was on his side and defended him, and when he finally confessed they were all too eager to get in line to extract pounds of flesh from him. The fact is, Armstrong was an excellent competitor and rider, and the instant he decided to use EPO and testosterone, he was excellent at hiding it and discrediting anyone that made accusations against him. At that point Livestrong was a global brand, Armstrong himself was a global brand. He had no choice but to continue lying and continue doping. Then like I said earlier, his only chance of successfully getting away with it was if he had permanently retired after his 7th win, and never looking back. Unfortunately for him, he couldn't do that, he came out of retirement and was immediately back in the public eye and was immediately back in his accusers crosshairs, and this time the people investigating his drug usage were federal agents with badges, instead of just journalists or former riders. Now the penalty for lying was much more serious, and therefore Lance's former teammates like Hamilton had no choice but to confess, and Lance was finally brought down, and had no choice to confess.
This is a guy on a bike. Now, apply this difference between media image and reality to something important. Ukraine, Covid, politics... all versions of the same thing. Basically, endless bullshit.
The powers that be had made all the money they could have off his back, and then decided to find their “morals” once it was no longer convenient (or profitable) to support him. Funny how Nike, Trek, or UCI never gave even a single penny back in protest once the truth came out…
The look on the guest's face explaining the lactate tolerance - hydrogen ion issue is fascinating. I have no intellectual background and I'm amazed just listening.
i heard Greg Lemond (another american french tour winner) say on tv that it was impossible for Lance Armstrong to win without doping, just because of his lack of pulmonary capacity, and this when he (Lance) was winning the french tour... everyone was screaming on the poor Greg who was absolutely right, and nobody was willing to listen to him at that time. Sad
He almost killed Greg, Lance took Gregs company down and also his self-esteem! Afther that Floyd made it even wors. He blackmailed Greg that he would tell the world that Greg was abused by his uncle when he was young... Think about it, this Greg man is a hero! A hero! In 1994 he stept of his bike afther a few days in tour because he couldn't hold on.. He said, i am in the best form ever but this way of riding has nothing 2 do with being a professional cyclist!
@@Liz-dragon-street. - GL is anything but a hero. He secretly taped phone conversations and then blackmailed folks about the tapes. There is lots of data suggesting that GL used EPO. GL's ego led to the whole thing with him and LA blowing up. Let's be fair: GL started the fight for no reason other than he wasnt getting any attention when LA was winning
Love the perspective Peter ! Being a competitive cyclist and always trying to raise my FTP. Most people don’t know the genetic differences between the ability to suffer or the natural ability to shuttle lactic acid. The body is so uniquely different per athlete. Between muscle fiber types to Anaerobic Capacity. Everyone is different. Good stuff. I’ve had my hematocrit to 52 and felt amazing on the bike. And that feels very different at 47-48... you just have that extra bit... extra ease to push harder and farther...
It sounds like hitting the wall as a distance runner and the pain of pushing through it. I just can't imagine myself backing up like the tour does day after day.
@corydavis4121 It's a lot less hard on the body than running a marathon, because there's no pounding impact on the joints. Yes, riding the tour is hard, but most of the riders who do it are the best of the best. For them, finishing the tour isn't that hard. The hard part is performing well in the race.
The classic response to Lance Armstrong doping is: "Well, he was really mean to people who tried to expose him." No one ever tries to expose bodybuilding, by the way. We know it's not clean, so why bother? Tour-level cycling is the same. No one is clean at the top.
Did he not take people to court and try to ruin them financially etc, when they spoke out about him doping?. That alone makes him a horrible person. Knowing he was doping and trying to ruin those who spoke out about it. Complete sociopath. Glad he was finally outed and had to eat some humble pie
"Lance never had a hematocrit over 50..." WHEN TESTED. No doubt when testing wasn't expected or even averted by Lance's cabal, he had whatever level he wanted.
Lol, they took large amounts saline through an IV to momentarily lower the hematocrit in the blood, so that when he (and his term mates) were tested they were always below. Doesn’t mean they weren’t doping and riding with a much higher level of hematocrit.
Unfortunately there were some clean guys like Basson and Lance even bullied him. This will always remain a big stain on his vest. If you take over the sport against the other bad guys, at least show respect to the ones that do this for the love of the sport!
@@InTheSh8 During that era, it would have been absurd to expect to have a career as a pro cyclist while 100% clean. I respect the guys who tried, but they were a bit naive or overly idealistic.
PEDs are extremely dangerous. They are forbidden not only because it makes sports unfair, but they allso have consequenses on the human body. Just look at the retired atheles in east germany who were forced to take steroids and other substances to enhace their performence. To even consider that all athletes should use PEDs to ”even it out” is nonsense.
Armstrong's hematocrite was officially 42% which is above average but not so high compared to other cyclists. 50% is considered as a limit and only a few people are above naturally. Antidoping agencies are testing this hematocrite rate to determine if whether or not an athlete could be hold suspicious of using PED. However, this number can be f*cked with and it has been shown that Armstrong's hematocrite got much higher or much lower periodically. What you've got to understand when talking about Lance Armstrong is the level of sophistication his and his team's "medical program" - as it was called - had. They were not fooling around: they knew precisely what they were doing and how and that alone explains why it took so long for the antidoping agencies to get him. Pierre Ballester's and David Walsh's first and second books about Lance are absolute gold mines when it comes to PED use in cycling and it gives a sense of what can be done in any sport.
Lance was a force of nature, a prodigy, single minded & with an unbreakable spirit, determined, driven & motivated. He had that intangible quality, that few human beings possess, that makes a champion. He had an paralleled work ethic, an aptitude for the sport that had seldom been seen before & was genetically gifted with the all the attributes specific to this sport. Doping enhanced these already exceptional abilities, to levels that no one else, at the time, could match.
@@dyschromotopia This. But people will still try and destroy this man without thinking about the amazing things he did for Cancer Research around the World, and inspiration for all of those dying around the World.
yep just like all the other guys, ever heard of operation puerto, look it up then youll understand what being a top pro rider is all about. lance wasent doing anything new or special. he just got himself a gun when he realized his rivals has 9mmers.
When the story broke I did not want to believe it. Lance Armstrong was cyclings golden goose. He was good for the sport around the world. Non-enthusiast knew the sport through him. Non-enthusiast today could not name a single cyclist. It does not make what he did right but at the time you could not compete without roids.
Something that gets missed about Lance is that his lactic tolerance was off the charts due to his cancer treatment. The process damaged some of his nerves allowing him to hit his threshold with little to no pain. He would use various pieces of tech to monitor his body so he didn't accidently get into a non-recoverable state of lactic build up.
One testicle produces the same testosterone as two; testosterone-production regulated by a feedback mechanism in the brain. One guy in WW1 England got a brain-tumor, and he produced so much testosterone that was just like on steroids.
People defending Lance. You guys don’t even know half the story. I used to like him too despite the doping but now think he is the lowest of the low. Lance actively snitched on competitors for doping when they became a threat during TDF. He called UCI on Tyler Hamilton for doping when Tyler beat Lance on TDF time trials. He also treated people who were caught as worse than dirt. Floyd Landis partly snitched on him because Lance blocked him from getting signed up by teams after he had served his suspension. Also whenever someone became a threat to Lance in the peloton, that person would be out of the “inner circle” and Lance would withhold drugs from them. He was forced to change this strategy when he came close to losing TDF in 2003. He didn’t cheat to level the playing field. His unsportsmanlike behavior to HIS TEAMMATES and competitors shows he didn’t believe in FairPlay at all. It’s one thing to cheat when it’s the reality of the sport but at least do it like a gentleman. And lance was no gentleman but an awful bully and a holier than thou hypocrite whenever things got tough for him.
So true! I loved Lance so much but than we found out he is an awful human being!! He slept with many woman from teammates, he destroyed Greg Lemond his business and on and on .... A Billy in the came! We can say that Lance is a Malignant narcistic person
Felix Kuhlin my ? Is why it would that high after only a 100m race doesnt make sense . I competed for years in the water , so i cant think of one good reason whynit would be like that
Agree with Dr. Attia. Having also been a small time amateur bike racer I know first hand how difficult that sport is. You don't win the TdF or Giro D'Italia on mineral water and powerade. Hincapie, Hamilton, Landis, Leipheimer, those guys were unbelievable cyclists. Hamilton finished the TdF with a freaking broken collarbone one year, unbelievable.
@@combatfighttalkuk.546you literally lean on the handlebars while riding. Than when you get out the saddle younuse your upper body aswel. He literally grinded down 11 teeth and had to get them capped. But he was doping and on blood transfusion type shit
As a German I have to say that I enjoyed these duels of Lance and Jan alot. And I admired both in a certain way: Jan overall was probably the more physically gifted (on that high level of genetic freaks) and the one you would probably prefer to have a beer with, but Lance definitive was and is till today the best of them all! He brought a level of focus and professionalism to the game that was unseen before. And to be able to motivate yourself 7 years in a row and to suffer every year for that one goal made him the best! I can't put it in better words than Jan Ulrich who once replied on the question if he would feel cheated by Lance, taking into account that he was doped and that then he (Jan) might would have won the Tour many times: 'I know who crossed the finnish line first!' Nothing more to say. Great era, great sportsmen!
You are supporting and admiring a cheater..boohoo for you too.. I remember during my early teenage I was a big fan of Ulrich..but my world crashing down after the scandal..Those were all fake heroes...
As a german i also highly disagree...Especially Ullrich is a pos of the higfhest degree...last thing he is known for is choking hookers when they want to get paid...he a real POS...both of em destroyed cycling...the fairy tale that everyone was doped back than is exactly that, a fairy tale...those 2 pieces of shit betrayed every other competitor...they just did..there were clean riders (And thats a fact!!!)... to say you enjoyed the duels of these 2 cheaters is utterly stupid...why you think ullrich never admitted although being tested positive? because he would be stripped of everything he "achieved" and rightfully so...both are naturally born losers...look at them now...they are true Pieces Of Shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I used to work in Critical care: When they speak about lactate levels of 18 I guess they are talking abour mg/dL. 18mg/dL = 2mmol/L wich is the measure I'm used to. The thing is, that levels usually indicates that you need a respirator and advanced life support...insane!
How can you say his lactate threshold was genetically higher when he was doing unnatural procedures to boost it? That's why they were doing the blood cycling and all.
What he means is if u remove the doping from all the cyclists he would still probably be the best ofcourse u cant say that for sure but thats the general idea
Even if you trained for 10 years and did all the doping he did he would still run circles around you even if he didn't dope and you did. That's the whole debate
What I believe he is talking about is how well Lance could resist the pain of Lactate. I regularly do lactate map tests and I've had lactate tested during racing. Laces doping with epo would have helped keep the lactate numbers lower. The map tests are aerobic tests so they are over as soon as my lactate spikes so the highest I've seen there is 10 and that hurts alot. But in between races I've seen up to 19 after a time trial at nationals
Both things arent mutually exclusive. Lance had an unnatural lactate threshold AND he also used boosting. However I'd like to add that such boost wasnt on the lactate threshold, nobody ever said that, the doping increased the oxygen levels and only marginally, maybe 3-5%. But not the lactate tolerance.
Peter is completely on the mark. He knows what he's talking about. Lance won because he peaked for 1 race a year (The Tour de France), he had an incredibly strong group of domestiques (teammates) that were there to specifically help Lance win the Tour, and, most importantly, Lance had one of the most strict and effective training programs in cycling that changed how riders train (the introduction of power meters to train off of wattage as opposed to heart rate monitors). Lance doped but so did everyone else. He was objectively the best rider of the era, regardless of the doping.
Interesting conversation. Pro athletes have to deal with what intense training does long term. I’ve always been a gym rat, and taught fitness classes as a hobby. Now in my mid fifties and the people who I know that continue to train like they are in competition look and feel terrible. Crippled with arthritis Chasing cancers all over their bodies. Balance in exercise and nutrition is important
What this guy fails to mention that is documented in several books, is Armstrong was a “super responder” to EPO. Some cyclists can take the same dose and see minimal gains, whereas Lance saw huge gains. He also paid the best doping doctor at the time, Michele Ferrari, lots of money to work exclusively with him.
So what? some people are born with huge vo2 maxes. All elite athletes have massive genetic advantages. He just took advantage of his at a time when you had to cheat to compete.
Not to mention all the money he paid to silence lots of uci people. This interview is BS in my opinion. L.armstrong is not a saint he destroyed many peoples life, teammates, for saying the truth.
I agree... every one of the top riders were on dope, and he beat them all. Right or wrong, the field WAS pretty even. What WAS wrong with Lance is that he lied and threw some people under the bus.
no one was doing blood transfusions which was highly more effective than EPO.............And no one dare challenge him because of his power and intimidation
People keep saying 'everyone was doping', it was a 'level playing field'... That is simplification. What if there was one guy that wasn't? And not all teams had the resources and crooked doctors that the big teams with the big budgets had. And how can you know that LA did not in fact take more, more often, only better controlled before any tests? True, he was dedicated (haha), and obsessed, but to this day he is saying he won those titles. And Rogan saying 'they didn't dope much' - compared to what? It sure reads like much in Hamilton's book - stockpiles in fridges, planned programmes before events etc. - just saying 'everybody did it' does not cut it imo. Not everybody did the same amounts. It does not really matter I guess, but LA is still a delusional denier, and character counts.
The fact that the first riders were cheating doesn't make it right. Keep going down the list and you will find one clean rider. Then you found the real champion. The last guy to get there rode the same distance. Only difference is taking more time by being clean.
We can't possible know if the field was pretty even. Some people have a better response to PEDS. He could have been on a better program. What we can say his body had the best response to PEDS
Attia is smart but he made a mistake, most people do, 6:54, they term 'athlete' is overused and misused, cyclists are endurance competitors, it's all endurance and conditioning, that is NOT ATHLETIC. Athletic entails hand/eye coordination to the extreme, cycling is just endurance..thats all. Just because your skinny and have no body fat does not mean your athletic...
if we totally level the playing field then we eliminate natural ability. having a high lactate threshold or having long limbs are the types of traits that make a special athlete. if someone is a better runner than me because they have a higher lactate threshold they are still a better runner, why should i be allowed to use drugs to nullify their natural advantage?
Someone can have a higher a threshold than you and still run slower than you . Endurance sports are just as mental as they are physical and the truth is everyone at the top of the sport is on something. No one wins Olympics or world titles without drugs. Theres way too much money and respect on the line for people not to do it
i personally believe that sport are to test the natural physical capacities of any person, if you want to use some kind of enhancer then the goal change and now you are searching for the best human + enhancer combination. Im not against that, but every one should know that now the goal is different.
I wonder how that interacts with technology. For instance, we allow some swim suits but not others. Are shoes an enhancement over our natural body for a sprinter? It's more of a spectrum. It's interesting we accept the notion that we shouldn't have people think that you need drugs to be the best at a sport but there's plenty of things where we're okay with someone needing certain genes to be the best like height for a basketball player. Yet drugs are more democratic in a sense, in that anyone can access them, your genes were out of your control before you're born.
and be forced to be on exactly the same doping agents which even then wouldn't necessarily have the same effect on all competitors...level playing field my ass
My thought, whenever they say level the playing field, is why would you level the playing field? What’s the point of athletic competition if everyone has the same athletic performance? At that point it’s just a mental game and you might as well be playing video games.
That opens an interesting can of worms. What indeed is the point of athletics? The argument against drugs would be like "this person was born with better physiology and deserves to win" in which case the goal of athletics is to identify genetically lucky people who trained enough in the right sport. I would say something else. For me the central question of athletics is to find out how fast humans are capable of going on bikes. And I say free the optimizer. I want to see what happens when you take off all the brakes because then the field will progress faster
@@appa609 But then you create a sport where the only way to succeed is to take recklessly unsafe amounts of performance enhancements, and hope that you took just enough to beat everyone else, but not enough that it makes your heart explode at the finish line. It would be like unlimited tractor pulls, where a large portion of the tractors blow up or destroy themselves. only instead of blown engine blocks and broken driveshafts it will be heart attacks and strokes. And if you want to see how fast a person can go on a bicycle, start by allowing recumbent bikes in the race.
That's a pretty bold statement "every pro cyclist from 1991 - 2011 was on a PED program". If that's the case it was a level playing field and Armstrong did win all 7 Tours. In time he will be forgiven.
@@davecassady7468 Doesn't really matter anyway. He won, he knows he won. His team mates know he won as did his competitors. Since he's admitted everything, a lot has changed with LA. But I understand. Haters only hate.
@@robvan6527 I don't hate him, I just think he's a sociopath. Of course he's one of the all time great cyclists....but he's also one of the all time great liars. He tried to ruin peoples lives for telling the truth. And he will not be forgiven for that. He can never be trusted ever again.
Lance should be evaluated in his totality: he was an inspiration, and a knob. He made cycling entertaining, and harmed it massively. He didn't create the doping issues in cycling, but it's too simplistic to say he didn't cure it either. He went beyond mere denial, he bullied those who tried to change things. His story reminds me of the film, The Talented Mr Ripley: he was someone who fought his way out and up, but once he'd started doping and winning things and lying about it, it was a treadmill. That doesn't of course justify the bullying... Then there's the impact on cycling. His legacy has stained the sport. But he made people pay attention to sport, he brought knew spectators, and those of us who were already cycling fans, saw interesting racing. And he's been an advocate for cycling, for getting on a bike and riding, since retirement. And then there's the cancer community. For all his sins, Lance did inspire people who had cancer. Let's just see the whole picture.
Lance Armstrong came into a European Dominated sport rife with Doping, and beat them at it. I couldn't care less that he did it and won because of doping. I would still like to see the actual results of what he did and how much it actually helped. I'm willing to bet the majority of his talent was natural and his titles would still stand against everyone else.
He was not good first 2 or 3 tour at all after he came back from cancer. When his body weight drope a lot. He start to use everything under the sun then he became best. So that stupid ass because enybody did do not count. He allways say he is clean and pay lot of money to cover doping up.
And that is why he DNF 3 of his first 4 tours. Aye, natural talent. He was a great short term racer, his most sophisticated doping program enabled him to sustain that over a 3 week tour. Not everyone is affected by doping the same.
@@messi9991 youngest world champion, he always had the engine, jut like froome. of course epo and loosing weight helped him become a gc rider and he had taken drugs his entire career, maybe even as a teenager. but thats what makes a gc rider isent it, a super tough attitude, a willinness to go to all lenghts to win, training more than anyone, having a high hematocrit, high blood volume and being super thin. him taking drugs to get to the level he was is no different than any other top guy like ive said. just love it when i encounter some true believer white knight types, trolling you guys is awsome!
@@cypriano8763 " just love it when i encounter some true believer white knight types, trolling you guys is awsome!" - tells me all I need to know about you, and kind of ppl who support Lance. You must lead a sad life. ps i would love to know how exactly you are "trolling" anyone here...
@@ericdoolin6808 or both. One thing doesn't take the other one away. Granted he was juiced up to his eyeballs but not any doper could do what he did, he was top of the game in terms of form, and he could handle the drugs better than anyone (minus Riis... dude could move mud through his veins)
What they're saying about the effects of riding the tour is interesting. Finishing the tour doesn't seem too hard on today's top GC riders. Pogacar comes out of it looking very fresh.
I've always wondered why the heck TDF stages are so long. Why not make them 100KM max, 60 or so miles. Make them more quality over quantity. Change the fact people are eroding away from mal nutrition under such long physical strains. They'll become faster, more technical, etc. Super endurance and ultras have their place to satisfy those cravings but something as long as the TDF why not shorten the stages? Essentially the length of your everyday MLB game - 3 hours start to finish with before and after interviews LOL
Except the fact that US Postal had the best funding, the best doctors, the best system. It’s hardly simply ‘oh everyone was doing it, so it doesn’t really matter.’ Armstrong literally told a cyclist MID RACE to retire because he was speaking up against doping. He deserves everything that comes his way
The bottom line was that no one could beat a doped up Jan Ulrich and the other top riders who were already doping when Lance came along. Dope or go home,
I think it is terrible the way armstrong was treated, especially after having won 7 Tours whilst on drugs. When I was on drugs I couldn't even ride my bike home.
Hahaha😂
great comment
And im betting you didnt have testicular cancer or brain surgery.
Armstrong a con artist plain and simple. He made a shit load of money out of cheating, if it was a casino he would've been taken out the back.
Sounds like a Willie Nelson Comment ✌
Give him some slack. He walked on the moon after all.
RoundenBrown lol good one
underrated
And brought back all of those bracelets made of moon cheese.
RoundenBrown cant shape or wear a hat to save his life, how do you guess he drives 😂
Ahhh ah
Words from the great Bill Burr "Our roided up guy, beat your roided guy!"
Which makes no sense at all given that cycling is a sport of small professional teams
@@HkFinn83 Come on now. Let’s be real here they are all likely doping.
@@HkFinn83cycling is made up of small teams that are full of dopers. A lot of the coaches for those teams are retired racers and confirmed dopers too.
@@HkFinn83 🤦🏾♂️
EPO effects people differently, Lance had a hematocrit of about 41 before EPO. He also had the exclusive services of Ferrari.
played a hell of a trumpet though
Underrated comment
Very underrated comment 😂
The sad thing about all of this is that Lance Armstrong went out of his way to destroy those people that told the truth.
he went tit for tat with whom ever tried to destroy his life. seems fair enough. but that was his downfall in the end. if he would have been low key about like indurain he would be considered one of the best if not the best cyclists of all time
No the sad thing is, the people who dobbed him in were doing it too. They were just sore losers.
@@marcusk7855 So right..All the top 20 were doping and more..Lance was the best..He was smart on the bike, a master..He trained like a madman and knew what to do and when to do it..Fuck the naysayers..If he was an asshole, then so be it..He was the best damn Tour de France rider ever..
it would be crazy if a president ever did something like that
That’s exactly what burned him
This guy looks like Jordan Schlansky
Various tasks
💯
Absolutely! I couldn't place it and came to the comments to find out 🤣
👌
He definitely looks like he owns an elitist espresso machine.
He helped Vince Vaughan win dodgeball, so cant be that bad
Maybe his greatest contribution?
Lance got Vince there but Chuck Norris made the decision to make them play the game
Patches O'Houlihan is the reason he won, and everyone knows it.
I saw that movie in theaters right after he won the race again.
@@cronezone787 Remember you gotta Dodge Duck Dip Dive Dodge
Lance admitted it so many times.
"I love cycling"
😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lmao nice
so defiant
Lol 😂
Why isn’t his name Lance Legstrong?
Lol 😂 I wish I saw this sooner
I got shouted at in school for this joke
Cuz he can pop a nice wheelie
He lost his legs to cancer.
And by legs, I mean....
You’re a Dad aren’t you?
The issue with Lance is that when people started to talk of his doping he tried to bury/ruin them with his gang of lawyers etc. Lance's ego did him in and I doubt the public will ever forgive him.
He did that because haters like Greg lemonds only involved his name with doping and never even bothered to talk about the other 100+ guys who were also doping. It was always just lance
@@abone2pick nah that’s not even half of it. Lance actively snitched on competitors for doping when they became a threat during TDF. He called UCI on Tyler Hamilton for doping when Tyler beat Lance on TDF time trials. He also treated people who were caught as worse than dirt. Floyd Landis partly snitched on him because Lance refused to let him back into important teams after he had served his suspension. It’s one thing to cheat when it’s the reality of the sport but at least do it like a gentleman. And lance was no gentleman and an awful bully.
@@abone2pick haters my arse. Greg Lemond was just telling the truth. Nevermind the others. Nothing would made Lance any cleaner lmao.
@@InconvenientFactz exactly. LA an arsehole and so are his dumb arse fans.
@dee Haw Feeling sorry for yourselves is the same weakness Armstrong showed.
The problem with armstong is he vilified and tried to ruin the careers of journalists who called him out for steroids. He went after them with such vitriol righteous hatred (videos on youtube) and THAT is why he fucked up.
Fwiw he apologized to those who he did that to after things cooled down.
One was a former very close friend.
I don't know what McKneown's definition of vitriol righteous hatred means but it could have crossed the red line of being libel and that is against the law.
No, not even that! Other fellow cyclists! He bullied competitors like crazy. Horrible man. Read up on it.
Journalists are a bunch of nerds trying to interrupt people who knows what they are doing.
And of course that makes everything ok.
It's not just that Armstrong cheated, but it is the fact that he set out to DESTROY anyone who accused him of doping
Yeah, and if you talked the shit about me like like all those assholes talked shit about him you wouldn't even exist. I thought Lance was pretty kind.
Do you just copy and paste this comment
I love how Lance had those bracelets that blocked out the sun and prevented wrist cancer.
Werent those folks out to destroy Lance?
Whoever was the winner would have done the same.
His name in Enhance Armstrong.
Nice
Hence his name is Enhance Armstrong after all
Lance Pharmstrong
He just said everyone before him was juicing that won.
This discussion was way more informative than what I’ve read in the past about Lance. Thank you.
This dude seems to be very intelligent and can express himself very well. Super interesting interview. Nice work
yeah and he's a big senna fan.
My grandma has Lactaid with cereal, because if she has regular milk, she farts up a storm.
LMAO different lactate :^)
Good one
Let er RIP!
Me too. Plus explosive diarrhea. It’s a struggle.
Craig Patterson those images are all on you bro
@@derekdavis8614 you sure?
For me it wasn't that he roided, I could get over that... it's that he destroyed the lives of some of his former teammates when they came clean. And never apologized, even after he came clean later.
Thank you very much Mike. He still owes stolen prize money as well; all of it was returned. People making comments here need to do some research and they'll find out Lance not only cheated shooting up daily, but is a narcissist as well. Pathological lying and bullying are two of his favorite traits. Ken, Seattle.
Corr. above ----"all of it was 'never' returned.".........
Agreed, Harold. People should watch "The Armstrong Lie" on Netflix. It's interesting and very revealing.
Thank you Mr Hughes for stating what I was thinking while watching Rogan defend this lying, cheating piece of shit!
Mike Hughes the accusers were cheating too and accused him for personal reasons. And everyone knew everyone was cheating and jealousy drove the accusations. Don’t feel bad for anyone honestly. Maybe we should all stop caring about Olympic, college and professional sports because they are all cheaters.
Isn’t Lance Armstrong the first guy to ever bicycle to the moon?
No that's Buzz Lightyear your thinking of.
I thought it was Neal Degrasse Tyson
No, that was ET
You’re thinking of the kid from E. T
Nah that was Elon Musk
Its been said already but I'll say it again. Everyone used epo, and did transfusions, it isn't good but it happened. Obviously if he hadn't done any of it he would be incredible, but even while doing it he was incredible. The problem was that he first of all pushed his teammates into using unfair methods, and then destroyed their careers when they blew the whistle. There is no coming back from that.
Everyone 😂😂😂😂. The man was not only a cheat but he grassed in others who doped
I’ll say it again. Greg LeMond did not use any drugs. He rode clean.
@@Aspire2Bsum1 - Saying that doesnt make it true. The numbers just dont add up.
@@Aspire2Bsum1 delusional
The reason everyone questioned Armstrong was his absolute dominance. When you watch the current crop of winners they are not riding away from everyone on the mountain top finishes. Having been an amateur racer for 10 years, I have an appreciation for what happens when, in spite of the training required, your body just stops and says no more. I never saw that when he was winning.
Well... Sky was making sure they were not making it too obvious.
Bollox!!!!
That's not true either. Watch Jonas Vindegaard in Stage 11 2022 - he rode away from Tadej Lance style.
Dominance at getting high
@@CAO-sportsmed Pog also had no team mates around him, had run out of food and water because of the Roglic master stroke. He was even asking the team JV car for water.
When you come to watch a video about a famous cyclist and end up getting a chemistry lesson
LOL
Not wrong
INFAMOUS
What Lance had in his peak was an incredible 'VO2Max', and that's regardless of how much "drugs" he took. The VO2Max - a measure of aerobic fitness - is 50% genetic. Lance' VO2Max was not quite as high as Greg LeMond's VO2Max. Greg's was somewhere around 90. And Lance was 86. That's just unheard of. Very few OLYMPIC LEVEL athletes have a VO2Max of 85, let alone over 90! That's why even though everyone else was juiced to the tilt, Lance still beat them all!!
And Lance also helped people defeat their cancer, including mine. Yes, I know Lance was hated and sued by many at the time, but I'm biased and always will be for what he did for cancer patients and for how he made ALL OF US BELIEVE WE CAN DEFEAT OUR CANCER!!! AND IT WORKED FOR ME AND MANY OTHERS!!! I'll FOREVER be grateful to Lance Armstrong!
Incorrect----- Lemond VO2 was 94..….LA VO2 max was 72
Yup, didn't understand much of what that guy said.
FOREAL DOE
Genetics is huge. I trained with Olympic caliber swimmers growing up, and some of them had such a clear edge over others, and they were rarely the hardest working in the pool.
This exactly, at school we had a pair of brothers who were in the GB Olympic programme as sprinters and I don’t think I even saw them break a sweat while demolishing other schools
@@Alf763 and that’s why there not the best in the world if they kept pushing themselevs who knows were they would be
@@AA-wv1pr the key to being a good sportsman is knowing when to try and when not to, a school competition isn’t the time to try, a national trial is
If your extremely intelligent and I ask you what 2+2 is and you do it with ease “without breaking a sweat” should you be punished for that?
Swimming is mostly technique.
Wow, Tom Morello knows a lot about sports performance!
Ikr.....juicing in the name of....
Bruce Call
Juice on parade.
😉👍
@@daveyponderosa9549 fuck no I won't juice like ya told me.....
Bruce Call 🤣🤣👍👍
@@daveyponderosa9549 💪👍😂
It is so refreshing hearing someone who really knows his shit and a bit more, like knowledge of chemistry and biology is far more than just bro science
Great interview
The chosen won! What are you doing her. You been interviewing junks lately?
Fuck you
@@JayZeeeeeeee Classy
@@JayZeeeeeeee Doesn't understand the subject matter...that's why he so salty.
PEDs are extremely dangerous. They are forbidden not only because it makes sports unfair, but they allso have consequenses on the human body. Just look at the retired atheles in east germany who were forced to take steroids and other substances to enhace their performence. To even consider that all athletes should use PEDs to ”even it out” is nonsense
This guy has a good story telling voice and seems very knowledgeable & credible..
That’s one hell of a curve on that cap doctor
Mr. Mojo Risin and it's off centre, its reallllly annoying me lol
Dude, he’s white...
It's grown ass mans hat your probably one of those man child wiggers who want to become a different race and turn transgender wearing them children's hats 🎩
Hahah this is the hat real men wear in the real countries outside of man child America dudes in America be thinking their young after 35 and shit. 😂😂
Shaq Oneill if you use terms like "grown ass man" you probably aren't too grown yourself bud.
Men that wear flat brim hats are embarrassing.
I had a sub in high school who raced phelps when he was in high school and he mentioned how Phelps does not have lactic acid buildup so he doesn’t get tired
interesting
@Dante 92 I’m sure he had heard about Phelps prior to their contest and he was my math sub for a couple of days
Lance's story is fascinating. He went from the most protected athlete in the world to a paria. While all of his direct rivals were getting suspended for doping, he was portrayed in the media as the clean working guy that escaped death to rise to success. And a few years after he retired, the "truth" was revealed and the same media were acting shocked and throwing him in the mud. I will always wonder why...
What do you mean you'll always wonder why? Thats how it works, "innocent until proven guilty" as they say. During Armstrong's career, specifically his post cancer, pre retirement career, he never tested positive for PEDs. From '99 to '05, he won the Tour de France every year and only ever tested positive for cortisone 1 time, but since he had a doctor retroactively write him a prescription for a topical cream for saddle sores, he wasn't suspended. If he had retired in '05 he may have never been caught, but 3 years later he started watching the Tour on TV, and felt the itch, he couldn't help himself and he returned to cycling with the intention of entering and winning the Tour again. But his behavior caught up with him. USADA began investigating him, and finally enough former teammates were willing to out him. Suddenly all the journalists and associates like Betsy Andreu who had been claiming for years that Armstrong was dirty, were now credible, they were proven correct and were now vindicated. That's why the media turned on Armstrong. They felt foolish, they had been deceived. Despite the dozens and dozens of former riders and journalists that claimed Lance used PEDs, the media was on his side and defended him, and when he finally confessed they were all too eager to get in line to extract pounds of flesh from him. The fact is, Armstrong was an excellent competitor and rider, and the instant he decided to use EPO and testosterone, he was excellent at hiding it and discrediting anyone that made accusations against him. At that point Livestrong was a global brand, Armstrong himself was a global brand. He had no choice but to continue lying and continue doping. Then like I said earlier, his only chance of successfully getting away with it was if he had permanently retired after his 7th win, and never looking back. Unfortunately for him, he couldn't do that, he came out of retirement and was immediately back in the public eye and was immediately back in his accusers crosshairs, and this time the people investigating his drug usage were federal agents with badges, instead of just journalists or former riders. Now the penalty for lying was much more serious, and therefore Lance's former teammates like Hamilton had no choice but to confess, and Lance was finally brought down, and had no choice to confess.
Perhaps the way he behaved has something to do with it.
This is a guy on a bike. Now, apply this difference between media image and reality to something important. Ukraine, Covid, politics... all versions of the same thing. Basically, endless bullshit.
The powers that be had made all the money they could have off his back, and then decided to find their “morals” once it was no longer convenient (or profitable) to support him.
Funny how Nike, Trek, or UCI never gave even a single penny back in protest once the truth came out…
@@dylanfarnum4121 that's a well written summary mate 👍
The look on the guest's face explaining the lactate tolerance - hydrogen ion issue is fascinating. I have no intellectual background and I'm amazed just listening.
i heard Greg Lemond (another american french tour winner) say on tv that it was impossible for Lance Armstrong to win without doping, just because of his lack of pulmonary capacity, and this when he (Lance) was winning the french tour... everyone was screaming on the poor Greg who was absolutely right, and nobody was willing to listen to him at that time. Sad
He almost killed Greg, Lance took Gregs company down and also his self-esteem!
Afther that Floyd made it even wors.
He blackmailed Greg that he would tell the world that Greg was abused by his uncle when he was young...
Think about it, this Greg man is a hero! A hero!
In 1994 he stept of his bike afther a few days in tour because he couldn't hold on..
He said, i am in the best form ever but this way of riding has nothing 2 do with being a professional cyclist!
@@Liz-dragon-street. - GL is anything but a hero. He secretly taped phone conversations and then blackmailed folks about the tapes. There is lots of data suggesting that GL used EPO. GL's ego led to the whole thing with him and LA blowing up. Let's be fair: GL started the fight for no reason other than he wasnt getting any attention when LA was winning
I don't really know Lance Armstrong but here is the truth about him.
jhon hall hahahah I love that
Betas
Ikr.....wtf
Love the perspective Peter ! Being a competitive cyclist and always trying to raise my FTP. Most people don’t know the genetic differences between the ability to suffer or the natural ability to shuttle lactic acid. The body is so uniquely different per athlete. Between muscle fiber types to Anaerobic Capacity. Everyone is different. Good stuff. I’ve had my hematocrit to 52 and felt amazing on the bike. And that feels very different at 47-48... you just have that extra bit... extra ease to push harder and farther...
That shis why I never went past a cat 2. That shit tore my ass up. Constantly hit the wall between 15 to 25 miles in every race.
Extremely interesting. Could listen to this for hours
It sounds like hitting the wall as a distance runner and the pain of pushing through it. I just can't imagine myself backing up like the tour does day after day.
They also ride for like 6 hours over hundreds of miles each day. It's like running a marathon every day for 21 days.
@corydavis4121 It's a lot less hard on the body than running a marathon, because there's no pounding impact on the joints. Yes, riding the tour is hard, but most of the riders who do it are the best of the best. For them, finishing the tour isn't that hard. The hard part is performing well in the race.
@rlm4471 haha no. Nothing compares to the tour. Middle aged people and up run marathons. One doesnt just ride the tour.
The classic response to Lance Armstrong doping is: "Well, he was really mean to people who tried to expose him."
No one ever tries to expose bodybuilding, by the way. We know it's not clean, so why bother?
Tour-level cycling is the same. No one is clean at the top.
the classic defence of Lance Armstrong doping is to try to paint everyone to be dirty so that what my guy did was okay
Did he not take people to court and try to ruin them financially etc, when they spoke out about him doping?. That alone makes him a horrible person. Knowing he was doping and trying to ruin those who spoke out about it. Complete sociopath. Glad he was finally outed and had to eat some humble pie
Greg Lemond was clean
@@katiebee266 - Nope. GL was not clean
Exactly: everyone was on drugs and another person would have acted the same way had they been the winner.
This might be the first guest on this show that actually knew what they were talking about....
"Lance never had a hematocrit over 50..." WHEN TESTED. No doubt when testing wasn't expected or even averted by Lance's cabal, he had whatever level he wanted.
He was tested all the time - in fact, he was significantly tested far more than any of the other cyclists.
Clearly you guys were sucking him off so you should get tested too
Lol, they took large amounts saline through an IV to momentarily lower the hematocrit in the blood, so that when he (and his term mates) were tested they were always below. Doesn’t mean they weren’t doping and riding with a much higher level of hematocrit.
Salt injections!
Plus Lance had the best doctor in the world 2 give him the perfect dope but also 2 give hime the perfect hide program
I totally agree with you,the field was level when he won,the funny thing is the first year Contador won,he was on the same program as Lance !
Unfortunately there were some clean guys like Basson and Lance even bullied him. This will always remain a big stain on his vest. If you take over the sport against the other bad guys, at least show respect to the ones that do this for the love of the sport!
@@InTheSh8 anyone winning grand tour stages isnt clean...fact
@@karl8805 You think Basson was on the juice?
@@InTheSh8 During that era, it would have been absurd to expect to have a career as a pro cyclist while 100% clean. I respect the guys who tried, but they were a bit naive or overly idealistic.
“What am I on?”
“I’m on the moon.”
“What are you on?”
This was one of my favorite interviews on the podcast! So much great information...
PEDs are extremely dangerous. They are forbidden not only because it makes sports unfair, but they allso have consequenses on the human body. Just look at the retired atheles in east germany who were forced to take steroids and other substances to enhace their performence. To even consider that all athletes should use PEDs to ”even it out” is nonsense.
Armstrong's hematocrite was officially 42% which is above average but not so high compared to other cyclists. 50% is considered as a limit and only a few people are above naturally. Antidoping agencies are testing this hematocrite rate to determine if whether or not an athlete could be hold suspicious of using PED. However, this number can be f*cked with and it has been shown that Armstrong's hematocrite got much higher or much lower periodically. What you've got to understand when talking about Lance Armstrong is the level of sophistication his and his team's "medical program" - as it was called - had. They were not fooling around: they knew precisely what they were doing and how and that alone explains why it took so long for the antidoping agencies to get him.
Pierre Ballester's and David Walsh's first and second books about Lance are absolute gold mines when it comes to PED use in cycling and it gives a sense of what can be done in any sport.
42% is pretty low mate.
Lance was a force of nature, a prodigy, single minded & with an unbreakable spirit, determined, driven & motivated. He had that intangible quality, that few human beings possess, that makes a champion. He had an paralleled work ethic, an aptitude for the sport that had seldom been seen before & was genetically gifted with the all the attributes specific to this sport. Doping enhanced these already exceptional abilities, to levels that no one else, at the time, could match.
@@dyschromotopia This. But people will still try and destroy this man without thinking about the amazing things he did for Cancer Research around the World, and inspiration for all of those dying around the World.
@@dyschromotopia and that is why he DNF 3 of his first 4 tours. lmfao you freak.
yep just like all the other guys, ever heard of operation puerto, look it up then youll understand what being a top pro rider is all about. lance wasent doing anything new or special. he just got himself a gun when he realized his rivals has 9mmers.
I really enjoy every time you have Peter on, super smart, but able to articulate his thoughts so well. Agree 100% with his assessment of Lance.
Phelps wasn't exactly held back by having the perfect body dimensions for swimming either.
Denning76 Desire was his best attribute.
blair elander Wrong.
Size fourteen feet is akin to swimming with fins.
James Bond and two feet tall legs with a four foot torso and arms to his knees
Absolutely agree with you
When the story broke I did not want to believe it. Lance Armstrong was cyclings golden goose. He was good for the sport around the world. Non-enthusiast knew the sport through him. Non-enthusiast today could not name a single cyclist. It does not make what he did right but at the time you could not compete without roids.
Something that gets missed about Lance is that his lactic tolerance was off the charts due to his cancer treatment. The process damaged some of his nerves allowing him to hit his threshold with little to no pain. He would use various pieces of tech to monitor his body so he didn't accidently get into a non-recoverable state of lactic build up.
Lance only had one ball, give that man some roids
One testicle produces the same testosterone as two; testosterone-production regulated by a feedback mechanism in the brain.
One guy in WW1 England got a brain-tumor, and he produced so much testosterone that was just like on steroids.
Just like Hitler.
People defending Lance. You guys don’t even know half the story. I used to like him too despite the doping but now think he is the lowest of the low.
Lance actively snitched on competitors for doping when they became a threat during TDF. He called UCI on Tyler Hamilton for doping when Tyler beat Lance on TDF time trials. He also treated people who were caught as worse than dirt. Floyd Landis partly snitched on him because Lance blocked him from getting signed up by teams after he had served his suspension. Also whenever someone became a threat to Lance in the peloton, that person would be out of the “inner circle” and Lance would withhold drugs from them. He was forced to change this strategy when he came close to losing TDF in 2003. He didn’t cheat to level the playing field. His unsportsmanlike behavior to HIS TEAMMATES and competitors shows he didn’t believe in FairPlay at all.
It’s one thing to cheat when it’s the reality of the sport but at least do it like a gentleman. And lance was no gentleman but an awful bully and a holier than thou hypocrite whenever things got tough for him.
So true!
I loved Lance so much but than we found out he is an awful human being!!
He slept with many woman from teammates, he destroyed Greg Lemond his business and on and on ....
A Billy in the came! We can say that Lance is a Malignant narcistic person
I had a choice when I was a young boy riding a bicycle. Start getting blood transfusions to keep up or buy a moped. I went with the moped.
@AG Coarseman Yep, I could hit 35mph with it.
"A hundred breast race came out with a lactate of 21"
Hot.
Felix Kuhlin Spit out my coffee reading this, thank you sir
Ready... set... i.imgur.com/nO6zxdX.jpg
till you realize he's talking about moobs, not boobs... :(
Its all about the tits!
Felix Kuhlin my ? Is why it would that high after only a 100m race doesnt make sense . I competed for years in the water , so i cant think of one good reason whynit would be like that
Agree with Dr. Attia. Having also been a small time amateur bike racer I know first hand how difficult that sport is. You don't win the TdF or Giro D'Italia on mineral water and powerade. Hincapie, Hamilton, Landis, Leipheimer, those guys were unbelievable cyclists. Hamilton finished the TdF with a freaking broken collarbone one year, unbelievable.
To be fair, a collarbone injury isn't going to effect your legs isit. that's like saying ohhh he won 1 year with a broken nose😂😂😂
@@combatfighttalkuk.546you literally lean on the handlebars while riding. Than when you get out the saddle younuse your upper body aswel. He literally grinded down 11 teeth and had to get them capped. But he was doping and on blood transfusion type shit
As a German I have to say that I enjoyed these duels of Lance and Jan alot. And I admired both in a certain way: Jan overall was probably the more physically gifted (on that high level of genetic freaks) and the one you would probably prefer to have a beer with, but Lance definitive was and is till today the best of them all! He brought a level of focus and professionalism to the game that was unseen before. And to be able to motivate yourself 7 years in a row and to suffer every year for that one goal made him the best! I can't put it in better words than Jan Ulrich who once replied on the question if he would feel cheated by Lance, taking into account that he was doped and that then he (Jan) might would have won the Tour many times: 'I know who crossed the finnish line first!' Nothing more to say. Great era, great sportsmen!
As a german i disagree strongly
You are supporting and admiring a cheater..boohoo for you too..
I remember during my early teenage I was a big fan of Ulrich..but my world crashing down after the scandal..Those were all fake heroes...
@@Shinoj4852 not a cheater if everyone is doing it dumbass
As a german i also highly disagree...Especially Ullrich is a pos of the higfhest degree...last thing he is known for is choking hookers when they want to get paid...he a real POS...both of em destroyed cycling...the fairy tale that everyone was doped back than is exactly that, a fairy tale...those 2 pieces of shit betrayed every other competitor...they just did..there were clean riders (And thats a fact!!!)... to say you enjoyed the duels of these 2 cheaters is utterly stupid...why you think ullrich never admitted although being tested positive? because he would be stripped of everything he "achieved" and rightfully so...both are naturally born losers...look at them now...they are true Pieces Of Shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@Shinoj4852guess what every hero is a fake hero.. at the top of every sport there are dopers. Not even the Olympics are spared
Joe has amazingly real interviews without all the big-media biases...especially about drug use.
this aged perfectly. Not being sarcastic.
Yep except Jon Jones interview.
“Our ‘roided up guy beat those other ‘roided up guys” - Bill Burr
That is the motto of international cycling.
Polter Geist hahahahaha. I remember him saying that on Conan.
Polter Geist European cyclists are drug tested weekly, so Lance won by being the only roided up guy. Sorry to burst you American ego.
True. Lance was and is the best racer of all time.
Apollyon 1975 - your very wrong
What a well spoken guest. Top notch
I used to work in Critical care:
When they speak about lactate levels of 18 I guess they are talking abour mg/dL. 18mg/dL = 2mmol/L wich is the measure I'm used to.
The thing is, that levels usually indicates that you need a respirator and advanced life support...insane!
How can you say his lactate threshold was genetically higher when he was doing unnatural procedures to boost it? That's why they were doing the blood cycling and all.
What he means is if u remove the doping from all the cyclists he would still probably be the best ofcourse u cant say that for sure but thats the general idea
Even if you trained for 10 years and did all the doping he did he would still run circles around you even if he didn't dope and you did. That's the whole debate
No, it's not. Blood doping increases the number of red blood cells and therefore improves oxygen delivery to muscles.
What I believe he is talking about is how well Lance could resist the pain of Lactate. I regularly do lactate map tests and I've had lactate tested during racing. Laces doping with epo would have helped keep the lactate numbers lower. The map tests are aerobic tests so they are over as soon as my lactate spikes so the highest I've seen there is 10 and that hurts alot. But in between races I've seen up to 19 after a time trial at nationals
Both things arent mutually exclusive. Lance had an unnatural lactate threshold AND he also used boosting. However I'd like to add that such boost wasnt on the lactate threshold, nobody ever said that, the doping increased the oxygen levels and only marginally, maybe 3-5%. But not the lactate tolerance.
Peter is completely on the mark. He knows what he's talking about. Lance won because he peaked for 1 race a year (The Tour de France), he had an incredibly strong group of domestiques (teammates) that were there to specifically help Lance win the Tour, and, most importantly, Lance had one of the most strict and effective training programs in cycling that changed how riders train (the introduction of power meters to train off of wattage as opposed to heart rate monitors).
Lance doped but so did everyone else. He was objectively the best rider of the era, regardless of the doping.
He won because his body responded to dope better than everyone else's. Indurain was the same.
You're saying every other competitor took PEDs?because i don't buy that
@@Billy.Nomates the year he got caught, 87% of the other riders also tested positive.
@@BigL.10 so that's ok then?is that seriously what you're saying?it's ok because most of them were cheating?
@@Billy.Nomates I never said that big man, check again. I simply responded to your question
Joe "Whoa" Rogan
Whoa-gan.
Woah Rogan
Lmfao
Joe Whoagan
Hahahahaha
Let's not forget Lance had the best doctor and doping team by a mile compared to everyone else,
Yeah I guess he also had the best doctors when he was 15 years old competing against grown men.
The knowledge you gain is insane
This guest is awesome.
Interesting conversation. Pro athletes have to deal with what intense training does long term. I’ve always been a gym rat, and taught fitness classes as a hobby. Now in my mid fifties and the people who I know that continue to train like they are in competition look and feel terrible. Crippled with arthritis
Chasing cancers all over their bodies. Balance in exercise and nutrition is important
This is an amazing interview
What this guy fails to mention that is documented in several books, is Armstrong was a “super responder” to EPO. Some cyclists can take the same dose and see minimal gains, whereas Lance saw huge gains.
He also paid the best doping doctor at the time, Michele Ferrari, lots of money to work exclusively with him.
I need to find that doctor
So what? some people are born with huge vo2 maxes. All elite athletes have massive genetic advantages. He just took advantage of his at a time when you had to cheat to compete.
Not to mention all the money he paid to silence lots of uci people. This interview is BS in my opinion. L.armstrong is not a saint he destroyed many peoples life, teammates, for saying the truth.
He also failed to dress like an adult. Hipster cosplay or just douche?
I agree... every one of the top riders were on dope, and he beat them all. Right or wrong, the field WAS pretty even. What WAS wrong with Lance is that he lied and threw some people under the bus.
no one was doing blood transfusions which was highly more effective than EPO.............And no one dare challenge him because of his power and intimidation
People keep saying 'everyone was doping', it was a 'level playing field'... That is simplification. What if there was one guy that wasn't? And not all teams had the resources and crooked doctors that the big teams with the big budgets had. And how can you know that LA did not in fact take more, more often, only better controlled before any tests? True, he was dedicated (haha), and obsessed, but to this day he is saying he won those titles. And Rogan saying 'they didn't dope much' - compared to what? It sure reads like much in Hamilton's book - stockpiles in fridges, planned programmes before events etc. - just saying 'everybody did it' does not cut it imo. Not everybody did the same amounts. It does not really matter I guess, but LA is still a delusional denier, and character counts.
@@EmmaKnightleyNo1 pp
The fact that the first riders were cheating doesn't make it right. Keep going down the list and you will find one clean rider. Then you found the real champion. The last guy to get there rode the same distance. Only difference is taking more time by being clean.
We can't possible know if the field was pretty even. Some people have a better response to PEDS. He could have been on a better program. What we can say his body had the best response to PEDS
I could listen to this all day long, so good.
What is good about this?
Call this "the truth about lance Armstrong"??? Guest "I dont know lance at all"
This doctor is Smart af.
Anish Prasanna i think they have to be, to be a doctor.
I can listen to him talk forever-what a voice!
Anish Prasanna ya his wonky hat brim totally proves that
Whatever he got alot of shit wrong.
He uses a lot of unnecessary jargon.
Attia is smart but he made a mistake, most people do, 6:54, they term 'athlete' is overused and misused, cyclists are endurance competitors, it's all endurance and conditioning, that is NOT ATHLETIC. Athletic entails hand/eye coordination to the extreme, cycling is just endurance..thats all. Just because your skinny and have no body fat does not mean your athletic...
if we totally level the playing field then we eliminate natural ability. having a high lactate threshold or having long limbs are the types of traits that make a special athlete. if someone is a better runner than me because they have a higher lactate threshold they are still a better runner, why should i be allowed to use drugs to nullify their natural advantage?
Someone can have a higher a threshold than you and still run slower than you . Endurance sports are just as mental as they are physical and the truth is everyone at the top of the sport is on something. No one wins Olympics or world titles without drugs. Theres way too much money and respect on the line for people not to do it
i personally believe that sport are to test the natural physical capacities of any person, if you want to use some kind of enhancer then the goal change and now you are searching for the best human + enhancer combination. Im not against that, but every one should know that now the goal is different.
I wonder how that interacts with technology. For instance, we allow some swim suits but not others. Are shoes an enhancement over our natural body for a sprinter? It's more of a spectrum.
It's interesting we accept the notion that we shouldn't have people think that you need drugs to be the best at a sport but there's plenty of things where we're okay with someone needing certain genes to be the best like height for a basketball player. Yet drugs are more democratic in a sense, in that anyone can access them, your genes were out of your control before you're born.
and be forced to be on exactly the same doping agents which even then wouldn't necessarily have the same effect on all competitors...level playing field my ass
My thought, whenever they say level the playing field, is why would you level the playing field? What’s the point of athletic competition if everyone has the same athletic performance? At that point it’s just a mental game and you might as well be playing video games.
That opens an interesting can of worms. What indeed is the point of athletics? The argument against drugs would be like "this person was born with better physiology and deserves to win" in which case the goal of athletics is to identify genetically lucky people who trained enough in the right sport.
I would say something else. For me the central question of athletics is to find out how fast humans are capable of going on bikes. And I say free the optimizer. I want to see what happens when you take off all the brakes because then the field will progress faster
Because they wasnt clean....so lance levelling the playing field is doping....and he doped and he was better doped than they were
@@appa609 But then you create a sport where the only way to succeed is to take recklessly unsafe amounts of performance enhancements, and hope that you took just enough to beat everyone else, but not enough that it makes your heart explode at the finish line. It would be like unlimited tractor pulls, where a large portion of the tractors blow up or destroy themselves. only instead of blown engine blocks and broken driveshafts it will be heart attacks and strokes.
And if you want to see how fast a person can go on a bicycle, start by allowing recumbent bikes in the race.
Ian Albert At least that last point I can fully agree with. It turns out about 89.59 mph in favourable conditions ;)
Lance had a great lactate tolerance and particulary strong arms!
That's a pretty bold statement "every pro cyclist from 1991 - 2011 was on a PED program". If that's the case it was a level playing field and Armstrong did win all 7 Tours. In time he will be forgiven.
He won't because he's a truly terrible human being.
@@davecassady7468 Doesn't really matter anyway. He won, he knows he won. His team mates know he won as did his competitors. Since he's admitted everything, a lot has changed with LA. But I understand. Haters only hate.
@@robvan6527 I don't hate him, I just think he's a sociopath. Of course he's one of the all time great cyclists....but he's also one of the all time great liars. He tried to ruin peoples lives for telling the truth. And he will not be forgiven for that. He can never be trusted ever again.
Not everyone reacts to doping the same way. So the argument “everyone was doping” doesn’t quiet work.
It is over sized lungs and the ability to deal with lactate
Lance should be evaluated in his totality: he was an inspiration, and a knob. He made cycling entertaining, and harmed it massively. He didn't create the doping issues in cycling, but it's too simplistic to say he didn't cure it either. He went beyond mere denial, he bullied those who tried to change things.
His story reminds me of the film, The Talented Mr Ripley: he was someone who fought his way out and up, but once he'd started doping and winning things and lying about it, it was a treadmill. That doesn't of course justify the bullying...
Then there's the impact on cycling. His legacy has stained the sport. But he made people pay attention to sport, he brought knew spectators, and those of us who were already cycling fans, saw interesting racing. And he's been an advocate for cycling, for getting on a bike and riding, since retirement.
And then there's the cancer community. For all his sins, Lance did inspire people who had cancer.
Let's just see the whole picture.
Armstrong was always a selfish pile of garbage
It was all a lie!
I love how Lance had those bracelets that blocked out the sun and prevented wrist cancer.
Wow!!!! The most important analysis on champion Lance and the sport from 1991-2011.
Lance Armstrong came into a European Dominated sport rife with Doping, and beat them at it. I couldn't care less that he did it and won because of doping. I would still like to see the actual results of what he did and how much it actually helped. I'm willing to bet the majority of his talent was natural and his titles would still stand against everyone else.
He was not good first 2 or 3 tour at all after he came back from cancer. When his body weight drope a lot. He start to use everything under the sun then he became best. So that stupid ass because enybody did do not count. He allways say he is clean and pay lot of money to cover doping up.
lots of cheats.. but the hard face on Armstrong put him out on his own.. Did he get cancer due to taking drugs..
And that is why he DNF 3 of his first 4 tours. Aye, natural talent. He was a great short term racer, his most sophisticated doping program enabled him to sustain that over a 3 week tour. Not everyone is affected by doping the same.
@@messi9991 youngest world champion, he always had the engine, jut like froome. of course epo and loosing weight helped him become a gc rider and he had taken drugs his entire career, maybe even as a teenager. but thats what makes a gc rider isent it, a super tough attitude, a willinness to go to all lenghts to win, training more than anyone, having a high hematocrit, high blood volume and being super thin. him taking drugs to get to the level he was is no different than any other top guy like ive said. just love it when i encounter some true believer white knight types, trolling you guys is awsome!
@@cypriano8763 " just love it when i encounter some true believer white knight types, trolling you guys is awsome!" - tells me all I need to know about you, and kind of ppl who support Lance. You must lead a sad life. ps i would love to know how exactly you are "trolling" anyone here...
Our guy on steroids beat your guy on steroids.
Good interview. Real dope guy.
finally somebody that actually claims that everyone was on doping and without doping Lance would still be the best
Phantasia Entertainment lol that’s not a hot take..
Maybe if his name was Lance LEGstrong he wouldnt have needed steroids..
David Brunell well he did win the world championships before he doped so he's still strong but you know not really dominant in the tour
😆
Actual lol sir
David Brunell if you ain’t cheating you ain’t competing. They were all...
Very well played, sir.
So the perfect athlete can get rid of lactate easily and ontop tolerate massive amounts.
Supposedly the 1st 18 finishers were doped
No supposedly the full field would have been taking.
No 'supposedly' whatsoever
I think the other thing about Lance is that his bodies ability to react to the epo was just better than other athletes
Or maybe he was decent at biking, just a little better than the other athletes...
@@ericdoolin6808 or both. One thing doesn't take the other one away. Granted he was juiced up to his eyeballs but not any doper could do what he did, he was top of the game in terms of form, and he could handle the drugs better than anyone (minus Riis... dude could move mud through his veins)
ALVMusic yes both is the most likely answer
What they're saying about the effects of riding the tour is interesting. Finishing the tour doesn't seem too hard on today's top GC riders. Pogacar comes out of it looking very fresh.
"it wasn't that much?"
blood transfusions during breaks ?
Odd to be so specific about certain numbers and finish with ‘I don’t know if this is true ‘
I've always wondered why the heck TDF stages are so long. Why not make them 100KM max, 60 or so miles. Make them more quality over quantity. Change the fact people are eroding away from mal nutrition under such long physical strains. They'll become faster, more technical, etc. Super endurance and ultras have their place to satisfy those cravings but something as long as the TDF why not shorten the stages? Essentially the length of your everyday MLB game - 3 hours start to finish with before and after interviews LOL
Bill Burr had the best take on Lance. Lance thanked him later.
Except the fact that US Postal had the best funding, the best doctors, the best system. It’s hardly simply ‘oh everyone was doing it, so it doesn’t really matter.’ Armstrong literally told a cyclist MID RACE to retire because he was speaking up against doping. He deserves everything that comes his way
This guy looks like Tom Morello
talks like Tom Morello too!
Ben Dagostino if he ate food
Ben Dagostino the highway is alive tonight
I thought it was Jordan Schlansky from Conan at first lol.
Ben Dagostino agreed and I haven't heard that name in years lol
Why is the full podcast banned/deleted? This dude is interesting! Is this another person which spotify doesn't want us to see?
The bottom line was that no one could beat a doped up Jan Ulrich and the other top riders who were already doping when Lance came along. Dope or go home,
arcticwanderer2000
True story buddy.
Love him or hate him.......true story.
😉
Yep. True.
hope they talk about “the truth about Chris Froome’s asthma” next time..ü
I think we should allow specific PEDs for all professional athletes.
The ban on PEDs was called for by the USA because the eastern block was doing it better
I wish David Goggins was in that room and part of this conversation.
Help me out. I don't want to assume. What's Goggins' position on PEDs?