I think a lot of people genuinely think they can't hurt a woman with a traditionally skinny and beautiful body with these comments, and in a way its an indication that these people see you as higher status than them in this regard. Genuinely Caroline, they wouldn't say these things if they didn't feel threatened by how gorgeous you are, it's an attempt to tear you down and level the playing field. They can't attack your natural appearance so they have to attack your character i.e. how you're supposedly choosing to present yourself. Then a lot of people dismiss the complaint as "hot girl problems". Definitely a really insidious form of misogyny but also like the oldest one in the book. Like you being beautiful makes me feel feelings and that's your fault so please stop? You won't win over these people, so be whatever makes you feel your beautiful self.
@@aspartameindustry It absolutely is people thinking that and personally I think there's a need to both acknowledge that it's not okay and an awful thing to do, and to also acknowledge that there is a privilege and power difference between that experience and the widespread fat shaming in our society (not saying that anyone said there wasn't, but there was a reference to how society now talks about how we need to accept all bodies... we do lip service I guess but it's still a huge huge issue and not solved at all and overall there is still like systemic discrimination against people for body size which I think is important to acknowledge). It's super nuanced, ultimately I really felt for Caroline being targeted by this nasty, clearly unwell person with these awful comments and I also really felt for Jess talking about being scared to be sharing more on camera while being in a larger body. The two experiences are both really terrible and both deserve to be heard and both should not be happening in 2024.
Caroline, you were a huge inspiration for me with your crop tops and feminine style, and seeing you wear those really helped me to feel more confident that I could too. That probably sounds so silly, but I was really in my head about being “too old” for some styles, even though I feel the cropped silhouette flatters my body more and straight up I just feel cute in them. So to both of you, please just keep wearing what you feel good in. Wack people will have something negative to say no matter what
Caroline, you are SO gorgeous to me. I believe that those nasty comments come from jealous people. I can‘t imagine any valid reason why people would be so horrible towards you. It must be envy. Try not to get discouraged from these comments and just wear whatever makes YOU feel good.☺️ You are both so smart and beautiful 😘
Haha I remember meeting brandon flowers at a record store signing in London in 2004! I thought I was in love, gosh I feel old. I can also totally identify with the buying of the expensive gear, spending all my time on research, all while avoiding doing the actual thing! Major perfectionist, procrastination issues. This chat makes me feel seen! x
I've gotten the same comments for wearing skirts and shorts! "I never see you wearing pants" and it's like a) why are you keeping track of what I'm wearing? B) I wear pants a lot c) what am I supposed to respond to that?? Now i feel like I can't wear a skirt cuz im gonna get a "oh surprise surprise she's showing her legs again" comment behind my back
For what it is worth to the art school person, we have an art school for kids that is just for my neighborhood and the classes are sold out a day or a week after they are annouced. I literally wish there was another school because I can never get in that one and if they had better prices - even better.
I've worked with launching a few SaaS startups, but I think this applies to many endeavors. One of the hardest things to learn is often that you can launch the Minimum Viable Product. It doesn't have to be the Most Valuable Product. If you're waiting for it to be perfect before you launch, you're never going to.
Yikes. The “Entrepreneur 101” topic is me. Right now. I took a huge leap 48 days ago, and yesterday I had that thing where I go…what the hell am I doing and why the hell am I even trying this and am I maybe crazy? For even trying? Thank you for putting on a podcast using the transcript of my soul.
Suggestion abt troll comments: “Body shaming comments will not be acknowledged” in your channel description. And then don’t answer anymore of them. I can’t imagine dealing w that crap all the time, but you owe them none of your time or energy. They can’t be helped. Reeling from the mention of the 9:30 club and Meriweather Post! So nostalgic for me!!
I have a question…I also tend to feel most confident in a cropped top and trousers that hide my legs…my partner and I were invited to his Auntie’s 50th and we were in a conversation with his mum about the dress code and she joked in reference to what I might decide to wear saying like “not a crop top? XD”…idk to this day if I was right to be offended or if it was just innocent. She did apologise to me later cos I think she got the vibe I was embarrassed and now I’m so conscious when I wear them in front of her.
Hi there girls! I happen to be 50% greek and grew up there and it was so funny to me listening to Caroline mimicking the greek accent - I know exactly what she is talking about haha
wow about the dressing style. I have to admit I often feel an urge to comment (always positively) about someone's appearance. I always hold back, because I just think that appearances are not supposed to be evaluated by anyone even if it's a complement. But now I feel like I have a permission to say - Both Jess and Caroline are amazingly beautiful women and I actually would like to see more "dressy" cuteness here. You both dress very plainly. But, you know what? I like you the way YOU chose to be on camera. The whole vibe of the podcast is the homey and roll-out-of-bed dear friends talking. The intimacy (in the sense of close friends-sistah way)
Fully expressed humans are beautiful. Wear what makes you feel good and feel like you. Those comments are horrible and that must be really hard. I hope you keep doing you though. You're both awesome!
Jess!!!! I’m so excited to watch your vlogs!! And Caroline, I can definitely relate to how you feel about to comments. People only want to praise and support to a certain point-as long as they don’t feel threatened.
Re: skill/idea being v different vs starting a business - PREACH! E-Myth Revisited is a classic yet still good business book on this. McDonald's is successful not because it started with the best hamburger chef, it's about building out systems and processes, and separating the excitement of the core talent/insight from the running of a business
@Caroline: There's a guy named Flowers at "Scrubs". He was the boyfriend of Eliot Reed for some episodes and a nurse in the same hospital Sacred Heart. Maybe it's him you vaguely remember. I thought of him immediately when you guys talked about a guy named Flowers. 😅
the flowers man you guys are talking about might be the male nurse Elliott dated on Scrubs? can't remember his first name but they call him "Nurse Flowers" I look/feel so much better in crop tops too. I think it's because I'm short yet lanky but thick on the bottom so I can look really awkward or sloppy in the wrong shirt, like my upper and lower body were glued together, but crop tops always look good. Once I realized I look best in crop tops it became really hard to go back. Older women especially always look at me AGHAST when they make eye contact with my belly button lol. Rub your torso in our faces Caroline the more torsos we blast at everyone the more they'll get used to it and stfu
In a similar vein to the commenters, I've had "friends" before who id themselves as "body positive" and "feminist", and they honestly were the ones who made the most comments about people's bodies, food choices, appearances, etc. It's totally an insecurity thing. Which is a shame, bc all this positivity and activism is supposed to direct us away from insecurity and make us more confident. But I see a lot of false confidence in some people.
Planning is like running on a treadmill, it feels like action but results in no forward motion. A wonderful resource is Brave Not Perfect by Reshma Saujani, she explores the foundation that women are taught to be perfect while men are raised and celebrated for being brave and how that shapes our relationship with failure. Planning in particular is a form of resource perfectionism, once I have everything in place then I will put myself out there- mitigating the risk of failure as Caroline said. There is no risk in planning, no one has rejected you, the idea is still alive, but not starting gnaws at you. I realized failure is a choice either way, failing to start disappoints myself, trying and failing doesn't disappoint anyone that matters.
Caroline, I personally always admired when you used to more often wear crop tops and such in your videos, because I thought it looked so good on you, and I thought like, ‘good for her, she looks so cute, she has the body to wear that, so awesome’ kinda thing. So keep it up lady! Seriously, f*ck those trash humans trying to insult you.
The body comments are insane to me. People (usually men) insult people's (usually women) bodies on the internet when the woman isn't "stereotypically hot," even when the woman is just existing on the app making videos about something that has nothing to do with her body. At the same time, when people (women) look "stereotypically hot" on the internet, they get super sexualized comments OR comments insulting them for looking good and, even worse, the woman being AWARE that she is "stereotypically attractive." The goal is for people (men) to OWN women's bodies and believe that everything women do should cater to the man's personal taste and meet this impossible standard of beautiful/unaware she's beautiful, sexy/modest, care about your looks/be low maintenance. What someone looks like has NOTHING to do with anyone else.
Acting business = same as art world. Being a sucessful artist is being in the business of promoting your avatar “artist” - nightmare. For me anyway…as I was unaware of the the percent of being a working artist was being in the business of promoting a persona. About 95-98%
I feel dumb and naive whenever I see people commenting these unhinged, negative things. I've stumbled upon snark pages on reddit before and hesus christ those people are insufferable! It genuinely surprises me every time. They notice things I would never think twice about, and act like these minor details are deadly sins. It's like they love acting like they're morally superior without even for a split second thinking about how they're bullying strangers online. Of course I have negative feelings about people online, too, but unless they're andrew tate, I'm not going to log onto twitter or reddit and make it everyone else's problem. There's a girl who makes cooking videos who annoys me because in every video she lifts her frying pans with both hands, but guess what? I realize that I'm the crazy person in this scenario, not her. I am capable of keeping that craziness inside me.
So there is this concept of "The Wolf" as sexual persona (particularly in men). It's like we all have this wolf inside of us and it is potentially dangerous (like Caroline said lol - "it kind of... scares me?" SO TRUE). Apparently, successful flirtation and sexiness is getting real glimpses of people's "wolf" -- and people who noticeably exude confident sexual/sensual energy tend to have truly integrated this part of themselves. It's just kind of always "on" in their life. Whereas other people (like you two discussed in this episode) experience an on/off switch to this persona. It can be hard to switch from our real personas to sexual ones but there is no right or wrong balance necessarily, it's personal to everyone. And we always grow more familiar with the wolf part as we become more whole in ourselves and in our intimate relationships.
I think I have insight on the crop top thing. I think it's the relative rarity that we see them. We always see people with bare arms and legs everywhere we go (weather permitting), but we mostly see torsos at the beach. We've had times in our culture where torso-revealing clothing was more common, like the 1960s and 1970s. When we see it less, people have some internalized idea that it's inappropriate simply because it's more rare. I never had the impression you were showing off, because that's not your demeanor. It just looked like your style, especially in summer - easy, breezy, and cute. It certainly didn't come off as immoral and it was never extreme. I watch another UA-cam channel where the crop tops don't hit the same way. The woman doesn't just wear crop tops - she wears extreme ones that stop just under her bust with short skirts that skim her hips. The camera lingers very long and lovingly on her torso. Now THAT is showing off. She's gotten a lot of complaints and derision, but I watch her channel because I like everything else and couldn't care less about her outfits. BTW, the person complaining about your tank top is certifiably insane ... and stupid. That was a fashionably cut square-neck tank top. That person would never complain about a sleeveless top, but show a couple more inches of outer shoulder and you are "Jezebel" in their eyes? 😂 You've got to laugh in their face.
Dude the comments that you’re getting, Caroline…. So awful. I’m so sorry that miserable people come for you like that. It’s so unnecessary and people really need to work on themselves before making their personal misery a random stranger’s problem.
Caroline, as soon as you said that you're sensitive to comments about your body / clothing coming from people acting all morally righteous I was like YUP she went to Catholic school too
When i don't like something about a video i just move to a different video! People are wild! Why stick around enough to be rude to an internet stranger
The only way you are a bad person based on your clothes covering your torso if you wear a shirt with a print of a police rap sheet about your numerous and heinous crimes. 😉
Jess and Caroline, do you think the HATERS that leave comments, for the most part, to insult you.... could they be A.I. generated or just trolls? I believe they are because no human wants to watch a video that they don't themselves actually enjoy watching..
I think a lot of people genuinely think they can't hurt a woman with a traditionally skinny and beautiful body with these comments, and in a way its an indication that these people see you as higher status than them in this regard. Genuinely Caroline, they wouldn't say these things if they didn't feel threatened by how gorgeous you are, it's an attempt to tear you down and level the playing field. They can't attack your natural appearance so they have to attack your character i.e. how you're supposedly choosing to present yourself. Then a lot of people dismiss the complaint as "hot girl problems". Definitely a really insidious form of misogyny but also like the oldest one in the book. Like you being beautiful makes me feel feelings and that's your fault so please stop?
You won't win over these people, so be whatever makes you feel your beautiful self.
What I meant to say is they think they're punching up. They don't realise it can actually hurt.
@@aspartameindustry It absolutely is people thinking that and personally I think there's a need to both acknowledge that it's not okay and an awful thing to do, and to also acknowledge that there is a privilege and power difference between that experience and the widespread fat shaming in our society (not saying that anyone said there wasn't, but there was a reference to how society now talks about how we need to accept all bodies... we do lip service I guess but it's still a huge huge issue and not solved at all and overall there is still like systemic discrimination against people for body size which I think is important to acknowledge).
It's super nuanced, ultimately I really felt for Caroline being targeted by this nasty, clearly unwell person with these awful comments and I also really felt for Jess talking about being scared to be sharing more on camera while being in a larger body. The two experiences are both really terrible and both deserve to be heard and both should not be happening in 2024.
Caroline, you were a huge inspiration for me with your crop tops and feminine style, and seeing you wear those really helped me to feel more confident that I could too. That probably sounds so silly, but I was really in my head about being “too old” for some styles, even though I feel the cropped silhouette flatters my body more and straight up I just feel cute in them. So to both of you, please just keep wearing what you feel good in. Wack people will have something negative to say no matter what
Caroline, you are SO gorgeous to me. I believe that those nasty comments come from jealous people. I can‘t imagine any valid reason why people would be so horrible towards you. It must be envy. Try not to get discouraged from these comments and just wear whatever makes YOU feel good.☺️
You are both so smart and beautiful 😘
Haha I remember meeting brandon flowers at a record store signing in London in 2004! I thought I was in love, gosh I feel old. I can also totally identify with the buying of the expensive gear, spending all my time on research, all while avoiding doing the actual thing! Major perfectionist, procrastination issues. This chat makes me feel seen! x
59:00:00 Girl!!! you have tee BEST torso, Caroline! Do NOT worry about what people say in "feedback"... You are awesome-looking!
She is! For me she's one of the most beautiful women.
So early this is still called TITLE
I've gotten the same comments for wearing skirts and shorts! "I never see you wearing pants" and it's like a) why are you keeping track of what I'm wearing? B) I wear pants a lot c) what am I supposed to respond to that?? Now i feel like I can't wear a skirt cuz im gonna get a "oh surprise surprise she's showing her legs again" comment behind my back
Oh and this isn't even on the internet this is from people in real life
I PROMISE YOU that if you always wore long pants, they'd be asking you why you never wear skirts.
Wow, I love this: "You think you are morally superior to me. No, maybe I'm morally superior to you bc. I'm not a bully!"
On point!!
Carolyn giving 2010 emo bangs vibes more each week and I’m here for it.
Caroline's bangs were on fire today!
I envy her latest bangs. 😅
She's making me second guess my own bangs extravaganza because who are they if they're not THAT
For what it is worth to the art school person, we have an art school for kids that is just for my neighborhood and the classes are sold out a day or a week after they are annouced. I literally wish there was another school because I can never get in that one and if they had better prices - even better.
Also Caroline, you're a queen and look beautiful no matter what you wear. F*** the haters xx
The rude comment...sounds like envy to me❤
I've worked with launching a few SaaS startups, but I think this applies to many endeavors. One of the hardest things to learn is often that you can launch the Minimum Viable Product. It doesn't have to be the Most Valuable Product. If you're waiting for it to be perfect before you launch, you're never going to.
Dear god, I wrote this and got sad that this is my life experience. It's not at all what I'd like to do lol.
I ran through a year of your podcast in a month & now I waited a week with the greatest anticipation for this one. 😂
Yikes. The “Entrepreneur 101” topic is me. Right now. I took a huge leap 48 days ago, and yesterday I had that thing where I go…what the hell am I doing and why the hell am I even trying this and am I maybe crazy? For even trying? Thank you for putting on a podcast using the transcript of my soul.
Suggestion abt troll comments: “Body shaming comments will not be acknowledged” in your channel description. And then don’t answer anymore of them. I can’t imagine dealing w that crap all the time, but you owe them none of your time or energy. They can’t be helped.
Reeling from the mention of the 9:30 club and Meriweather Post! So nostalgic for me!!
The Internet Police are f*cked in the head. Never dress up or down for anyone other than yourself
YES, Jess, so excited to watch your vlogs! 🙌
I have a question…I also tend to feel most confident in a cropped top and trousers that hide my legs…my partner and I were invited to his Auntie’s 50th and we were in a conversation with his mum about the dress code and she joked in reference to what I might decide to wear saying like “not a crop top? XD”…idk to this day if I was right to be offended or if it was just innocent. She did apologise to me later cos I think she got the vibe I was embarrassed and now I’m so conscious when I wear them in front of her.
Hi there girls! I happen to be 50% greek and grew up there and it was so funny to me listening to Caroline mimicking the greek accent - I know exactly what she is talking about haha
wow about the dressing style. I have to admit I often feel an urge to comment (always positively) about someone's appearance. I always hold back, because I just think that appearances are not supposed to be evaluated by anyone even if it's a complement. But now I feel like I have a permission to say - Both Jess and Caroline are amazingly beautiful women and I actually would like to see more "dressy" cuteness here. You both dress very plainly. But, you know what? I like you the way YOU chose to be on camera. The whole vibe of the podcast is the homey and roll-out-of-bed dear friends talking. The intimacy (in the sense of close friends-sistah way)
1hr mark. Yes. It's rooted in covetousness.
Fully expressed humans are beautiful. Wear what makes you feel good and feel like you. Those comments are horrible and that must be really hard. I hope you keep doing you though. You're both awesome!
Jess!!!! I’m so excited to watch your vlogs!! And Caroline, I can definitely relate to how you feel about to comments. People only want to praise and support to a certain point-as long as they don’t feel threatened.
Re: skill/idea being v different vs starting a business - PREACH! E-Myth Revisited is a classic yet still good business book on this. McDonald's is successful not because it started with the best hamburger chef, it's about building out systems and processes, and separating the excitement of the core talent/insight from the running of a business
early "TITLE" birds
@Caroline:
There's a guy named Flowers at "Scrubs". He was the boyfriend of Eliot Reed for some episodes and a nurse in the same hospital Sacred Heart.
Maybe it's him you vaguely remember. I thought of him immediately when you guys talked about a guy named Flowers. 😅
the flowers man you guys are talking about might be the male nurse Elliott dated on Scrubs? can't remember his first name but they call him "Nurse Flowers"
I look/feel so much better in crop tops too. I think it's because I'm short yet lanky but thick on the bottom so I can look really awkward or sloppy in the wrong shirt, like my upper and lower body were glued together, but crop tops always look good. Once I realized I look best in crop tops it became really hard to go back. Older women especially always look at me AGHAST when they make eye contact with my belly button lol. Rub your torso in our faces Caroline the more torsos we blast at everyone the more they'll get used to it and stfu
In a similar vein to the commenters, I've had "friends" before who id themselves as "body positive" and "feminist", and they honestly were the ones who made the most comments about people's bodies, food choices, appearances, etc. It's totally an insecurity thing. Which is a shame, bc all this positivity and activism is supposed to direct us away from insecurity and make us more confident. But I see a lot of false confidence in some people.
Planning is like running on a treadmill, it feels like action but results in no forward motion. A wonderful resource is Brave Not Perfect by Reshma Saujani, she explores the foundation that women are taught to be perfect while men are raised and celebrated for being brave and how that shapes our relationship with failure. Planning in particular is a form of resource perfectionism, once I have everything in place then I will put myself out there- mitigating the risk of failure as Caroline said. There is no risk in planning, no one has rejected you, the idea is still alive, but not starting gnaws at you. I realized failure is a choice either way, failing to start disappoints myself, trying and failing doesn't disappoint anyone that matters.
Caroline, I personally always admired when you used to more often wear crop tops and such in your videos, because I thought it looked so good on you, and I thought like, ‘good for her, she looks so cute, she has the body to wear that, so awesome’ kinda thing. So keep it up lady! Seriously, f*ck those trash humans trying to insult you.
Have been hoping for Jess to start a youtube channel! ❤ You can do it :)
Yours is the only podcast I can tolerate! ❤ For real.
Revitalising anger. Yes yes yes.
The body comments are insane to me. People (usually men) insult people's (usually women) bodies on the internet when the woman isn't "stereotypically hot," even when the woman is just existing on the app making videos about something that has nothing to do with her body. At the same time, when people (women) look "stereotypically hot" on the internet, they get super sexualized comments OR comments insulting them for looking good and, even worse, the woman being AWARE that she is "stereotypically attractive." The goal is for people (men) to OWN women's bodies and believe that everything women do should cater to the man's personal taste and meet this impossible standard of beautiful/unaware she's beautiful, sexy/modest, care about your looks/be low maintenance. What someone looks like has NOTHING to do with anyone else.
I award you the TRUTH AWARD.
Acting business = same as art world. Being a sucessful artist is being in the business of promoting your avatar “artist” - nightmare. For me anyway…as I was unaware of the the percent of being a working artist was being in the business of promoting a persona. About 95-98%
I feel dumb and naive whenever I see people commenting these unhinged, negative things. I've stumbled upon snark pages on reddit before and hesus christ those people are insufferable! It genuinely surprises me every time. They notice things I would never think twice about, and act like these minor details are deadly sins. It's like they love acting like they're morally superior without even for a split second thinking about how they're bullying strangers online. Of course I have negative feelings about people online, too, but unless they're andrew tate, I'm not going to log onto twitter or reddit and make it everyone else's problem. There's a girl who makes cooking videos who annoys me because in every video she lifts her frying pans with both hands, but guess what? I realize that I'm the crazy person in this scenario, not her. I am capable of keeping that craziness inside me.
I love your podcast so much ❤❤❤❤ Please come out with merchandise! That would be such a cool thing ❤
We have merch! Take a look: not4everyonepod.myshopify.com/
@@Not4EveryonePod Hooray 😁👍🏼🫶🏼
So there is this concept of "The Wolf" as sexual persona (particularly in men). It's like we all have this wolf inside of us and it is potentially dangerous (like Caroline said lol - "it kind of... scares me?" SO TRUE). Apparently, successful flirtation and sexiness is getting real glimpses of people's "wolf" -- and people who noticeably exude confident sexual/sensual energy tend to have truly integrated this part of themselves. It's just kind of always "on" in their life. Whereas other people (like you two discussed in this episode) experience an on/off switch to this persona. It can be hard to switch from our real personas to sexual ones but there is no right or wrong balance necessarily, it's personal to everyone. And we always grow more familiar with the wolf part as we become more whole in ourselves and in our intimate relationships.
can I read more about this concept? Is there like a good book about it?
I think I have insight on the crop top thing. I think it's the relative rarity that we see them. We always see people with bare arms and legs everywhere we go (weather permitting), but we mostly see torsos at the beach. We've had times in our culture where torso-revealing clothing was more common, like the 1960s and 1970s. When we see it less, people have some internalized idea that it's inappropriate simply because it's more rare.
I never had the impression you were showing off, because that's not your demeanor. It just looked like your style, especially in summer - easy, breezy, and cute. It certainly didn't come off as immoral and it was never extreme.
I watch another UA-cam channel where the crop tops don't hit the same way. The woman doesn't just wear crop tops - she wears extreme ones that stop just under her bust with short skirts that skim her hips. The camera lingers very long and lovingly on her torso. Now THAT is showing off. She's gotten a lot of complaints and derision, but I watch her channel because I like everything else and couldn't care less about her outfits.
BTW, the person complaining about your tank top is certifiably insane ... and stupid. That was a fashionably cut square-neck tank top. That person would never complain about a sleeveless top, but show a couple more inches of outer shoulder and you are "Jezebel" in their eyes? 😂 You've got to laugh in their face.
I definitely vote for more CW legs
thanks for this
For me, going to a parochial school for eight years messed me up with my body image...... Anyone relate?
Dude the comments that you’re getting, Caroline…. So awful. I’m so sorry that miserable people come for you like that. It’s so unnecessary and people really need to work on themselves before making their personal misery a random stranger’s problem.
Q
Best camera for vlogging is my iPhone 📱 😂
Caroline, as soon as you said that you're sensitive to comments about your body / clothing coming from people acting all morally righteous I was like YUP she went to Catholic school too
When i don't like something about a video i just move to a different video! People are wild! Why stick around enough to be rude to an internet stranger
Every person who negatively comments on Caroline's cute crop tops is a joke. Get over your jealousy and move on
The only way you are a bad person based on your clothes covering your torso if you wear a shirt with a print of a police rap sheet about your numerous and heinous crimes. 😉
😂
Jess and Caroline, do you think the HATERS that leave comments, for the most part, to insult you.... could they be A.I. generated or just trolls? I believe they are because no human wants to watch a video that they don't themselves actually enjoy watching..
title