Genuinely confused at what youd actually want from the games? Its a story based jrpg? A lot of the criticism in this really comes off as wanting a different genre entirety.
I'd like them to focus on making the story better by playing to Pokemon's strength (character based, low to medium stakes storytelling) and not focus on padding their word count. "It's a story based JRPG" I'm sorry is there some rule in Japan that RPGs have to waffle and say nothing for the first six hours?
@insertnamehere979 1. Protagonist having dialogue and being able to take part in the story beyond being a combat bot 2. Characters talking TO you, not talking AT you. Is this getting through? Should I say it slower?
I don't think I've heard anyone say gen 5 looks ugly before. Out of all the criticism I've heard about that generation, this is the first time I hear someone say anything negative about the visuals
I don't mind the bleak overworld of gen 5 but man I don't like how fangames/romhacks use or base on gen 5 sprites for Pokemon. They use dark and boring colors for little dudes and it's one of the reasons gen 5 Pokemon fly so low
As someone who absolutely loved how awkward nemona was and loved how she was trying her best to control herself. And as someone who as a kid and teen had a lot of difficulties controlling her excitement making it hard to make friends, it means a lot to me that there are other people who saw that as well. Especially, after seeing all the "yandere" stalker memes of her.
I loved Nemona so much I saw a lot of myself in her and even the thing she says to you after you complete the little quest thing for her hit hard. Im Autistic and do try and find any semblance of asd representation and Nemona is that to me tbh
Nemona is my new favorite rival. I love the build up to the final battle. You really feel it before the final battle when she says " all these people came from farand wide and of everyone I'm the most excited by a mile."
I absolutely adored Nemona as a rival. It was really nice for once to have a rival who was already very accomplished and wasn’t trying to truly compete with me or outdo me. She was already confident in her abilities and just trying to have a good time. ETA: However I do feel a bit sad for Nemona in that her talents are so wasted in Paldea. I would absolutely love a game or movie that’s just Nemona exploring other regions, especially battle-heavy ones like Sinnoh or Galar, where she can truly excel. She’d have a blast trying to fight Cynthia.
I don’t understand why so many people started see her as a yandere like character. To me she seems like a nice girl who has trouble making friends, something I can definitely relate to. She’s awkward, but I don’t see how some might see her as a stalker. Stalkers can sometimes be socially awkward but not every person who’s socially awkward is a stalker. She’s actually very refreshing compared to previous rivals who are most of the time in your face and don’t seem to recognize it, whereas Nemona actually recognizes when she oversteps and apologizes for it. It makes her feel more real than Hop or Hau. I would say she and Blue are the best rivals since their relationship with the player feels more natural than other rival characters. Blue has these snarks, but it feels more good-natured like he and Red are old buddies who have a healthy competitive relationship, like when good friends can toss insults and jab at each other because they know each other long enough to know when a insult is meant to be an insult or a good-natured jab.
Galar is just the funniest thing looking back at it. All the graphics and stuff aside, I think it would’ve been funny if they had the British museum in there. Also this video made me realize Opal is just the queen in some kooky fashion.
Nemona is maybe the greatest rival character yet. I like how she's a representation of us, the longtime players, we are all Champions just entering a new journey, and she does the same in-universe alongside us, it's really cool. And I just enjoy her character's positive energy to be honest.
@@RazHolly Whenever I play Pokemon (or any multiplayer game) with my friends we never do just 1 round/battle. It is normally like 1 hour of back to back battles using various teams. Even for Yugioh or games like Chess you do at least a best 2 out of 3.
I will never understand why people hated Iris. She was the best thing to come from gen 5 that wasn't a pokemon. She's a wholesome girl who deserves the world. Also the internet does Nemona wrong, she honestly reminds me of my past trying to make friends with other people and just getting brushed aside for being 'weird'. That weirdness of course being undiagnossed autism.
@@LilianOrchardGuess that explains the reception between Iris and Misty in the show: they’re both tomboys that are hot-headed and like to throw shade at Ash. And the white one who came first is loved as one of Ash’s best companions and the dark skinned girl that came later is seen as way too brash even though Ash did some pretty dumb things in the beginning of Unova. Well that and nostalgia for Misty practically carries her too
While I am still no fan of Gen 5, I do like Iris (yes I did begrudgingly try B2/W2). The gyms were pretty fun, but that and the Elite Four and Champion were honestly the most memorable thing (not terrible but I am going to always have fond memories of X and Moon in a different way).
@@ItsAlmighty21That’s what I’m saying! Also she really only milks it in the first half of Season 1 and everywhere else it’s in small bits. It’s more to do with nostalgia to Misty. And that applies to me with Iris since Black and White was the first section of the anime I watched and how I got into Pokémon
Lily in Gen 4: Mom, dresses are not really my thing. Lily in Gen 6: CALEM WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOT WEARING A DRESS TO THE FINAL BATTLE! Lily's character development is a sight to be hold.
@@LilianOrchard thats not true and you know it. you know for a fact that she is just a normal girl and you have a fetish for making 10 year old girls be as mentally messed up as you are.
@drmeatball711 I was talking about the Togekiss you stupid, delusional, backwater fuck. I understand paying attention is difficult, but I'm sure your mother-aunt taught you SOMETHING before kicking you out into the swamp.
"Pokemon is old, really old. You wont believe how hugely vastly mindboggling old it is..." Me being as old as Pokemon: hey man, thanks for reminding me.
It took me embarrassingly long to realize there was supposed to be actual strategy in the pokemon battles. I brute forced my way through every single gym, type advantages/disadvantages be damned, because I was going to win with the starter pokemon I'd grabbed, god damn it. My sister took that strategy to the extreme and spent most of her time grinding her pokemon until the levels overrode the type disadvantage. Laughed a lot at the chaotic commentary. Love our mutual murder bug, she deserves the best in the world, and all the blood of her enemies.
To be fair, as Lily pointed out, the early gens often did not have enough exp for a full team of 6, and unlike most RPGs, exp isn't shared automatically until the later gens (where your team now gets too much exp). In general, the games are really bad at teaching you the game mechanics *besides* the "elemental rock paper scissors" (which they over-focus on). Pokémon Stadium 2 is one of the few games that actually tries to teach the mechanics with its trainer school (which is kinda sad).
"Chinwag" is a real thing we... USED TO say... We don't earn very much respect for the fact we don't say that very much these days. We kind of gave that up by... doing many silly things. "Leaving the Pokemon League" was one of them. Loving the shade coming our way. Love the video!
After all these years... I have been finally called out. I will admit it, I named Silver '???' the first time I played because that's what the game told his name was!
I always interpreted N as a chracter people could love or hate on purpose. If you like N you the final battle is like a sad battle between friends. But if you hate him their are like a million scenes where he gets roasted 🤣
@egg_l0rd13 Fair I like N too! I guess what I meant is that you don't have to like N his whole (likely) character contradicts your belief in Pokemon. So if you do like N, it's likely cuz you feel bad for him and if you do hate him well the developers low-key expected that.
I personally thought Lusamine was interesting. It's implied she wasn't always this controlling, but that she went insane after her husband went missing (spoiler: husband was sucked up by a wormhole and spit out on an island in the middle of nowhere without his memories. He is alive, but has no idea he has kids or a wife, and he's living a pretty happy life in harmony with pokemon). It seems she became controlling in response to that, which makes sense, something outside of her control turned her entire life on its head, it makes sense she would chase control. And then continuing her husband's research in a desperate bid to somehow bring him back, she runs into an ultrabeast that poisons her and twists her long term goal born of desperation to get her husband back THROUGH researching ultrabeasts into short term obsession with said ultrabeasts. I don't think this is a testament to women in power, it's pretty heavily implied she wasn't ALWAYS like this and was once a loving mother and not some twisted psycho as a leader. That love got twisted, along with other traits of hers, due to mental illness born of trauma. It's not that she's a woman in power, it's that she's insane lol. That's why she says that to Lillie at the end. It's not that she "suddenly thought Lillie was beautiful", it's that by separating her from Nihiligo permanently you've kinda..... set her on the path to mental recovery. She may not ever completely recover, but she can get better now. Lusamine is just a tragic tale of a woman who had to force her way through trauma despite the mental damage, because she had responsibilities to the Aether foundation, because she had kids, becuase maybe, just MAYBE she can get her husband back if she works hard enough. And then an opportunistic and evil ultrabeast harmed her further. This is part of the reason Gladion takes over for the Aether foundation after his mother finally takes the time she needs to recover. He was old enough to have memories of his mother before she went insane, when she was a loving mother. He recognizes that she's ill and needs help. Lillie seems to recognize her mother was sick as well, though it's shown that her memoirs of before are foggier than Gladion's. I personally liked the story, it's thought provoking and really interesting. There's also not really a bad guy in the game except for the Ultrabeasts. Guzma is desperate to feel needed to someone, Lusamine is mentally ill and being used. I suppose the one scientist who was ALL FOR experimenting and torturing pokemon could be considered a bad guy, but he didn't exactly have the power to be a real bad guy. Just an employee who also used Lusamine's mental illness to his advantage.
As someone who's lived in Hawaii their whole life, I appreciate the alolan region trying to connect with the culture, but it feels like it's the regional equivalent of nostalgia bait. "Hey guys the gym leaders are now called Kahuna! Did you get that reference? Hey guys, the Pokemon like malasadas! Did you catch that?" Yeah, thanks gamefreak. I know. How about something genuinely interesting about the mythology or land history? No? Just more huts on stilts and some recolored Pokemon? Alrighty then.
There is something to be said about the fact that they couldn't even let your main character have the perspective of somebody from Alola. The first time a pokemon game takes place in a significantly different culture and they make a point to make you what is essentially a colonizer. I get why they did that for plot reasons (they wanted the character to be like the player and have them being introduced to the culture for the very first time), but it does carry some fucked up baggage.
Gen 4 is technically my favorite but that's because it was one of the last gifts I had gotten from my father before he died. In terms of a game for playing it would be probably be Arceus for the fact that you ca catch pokemon that are just walking around without engaging them in battle. Also I haven't payed for a pokemon game since sword and shield and that's not likely going to change any time soon.
Honestly I had a very different read of the Starfall Street storyline. Maybe it's the fact that I've only played the story once (and good GOD I'd still need some time, Scarlet and Violet take a long time to finish), but I took their story much less as them BELIEVING they were the villains and more that their actions got them branded as villains. From the rest of the school's perspective, these random kids got together and souped up giant Pokemon-run cars in cartoonishly outlandish outfits and started beating up other kids, and it really feels like their actions brought the hammer of the school board down on them simply because they just had to be the MOST about getting back at their bullies. Like, I don't think Penny actually feels bad about trashing her bullies, I think she just doesn't want to see them expelled because adults are stupid and don't understand that their actions were reactionary rather than unprovoked. They actually recycle that story a bit for the DLC, where the tituallar Teal Mask Pokemon got branded the villain by ignorant townspeople who didn't understand what was happening, who then uplifted the bully Pokemon that Ogrepon beat into the fucking dirt as "defenders of the town," because from the townspeople's perspective this scary ogre thing just came down and beat the absolute tar out of three Pokemon for no reason. So yeah, it read to me much more of "Adults dropped the ball on who was the bully/bullied," and it takes an entire Undercover Boss moment from the fucking principal of all people to realize that they need to do better by these kids Still doesn't excuse Penny's stalker tendencies and the extended move sessions tho lol
Totally agree, the reason that I really like Starfall Street is because this is exactly the sort of thing my teenage brain would think up if I lived in the Pokemon world. Want your bullies to stop bullying you? Just show them up in the raddest way possible
@@trainerrichard6859 If I remember correctly, it was the school's way to basically shut down the case like "No, there were no bullying in this school, it's Team Star that started everything" and because of that, the Team Star members started believing themselves they were the bullies. That's why the current principal of the school didn't know about that story, the previous one erased all the details that could lead to showing the real story.
@@Hierophant_Bean I didn't skip them, I just didn't include most of the footage because it was all about the main campaign. In the same way I didn't narrate every single battle I did.
As someone who does appreciate story and dialogue in video games in general, It is funny that you had the exact opposite views when it comes to pokemon gens 5-7 and gen 9
Can I just say how refreshing it is to hear someone praise Nemona? The sheer amount of memes and slander she's had has been insufferably unwarranted. She immediately skyrocketed to my favourite rival. I LOVE her design and her infectious battle-loving attitude was adorable. Plus the battles themselves were great. Her biggest "crime" was being excited to see you, THAT'S ADORABLE. Whereas Penny committed a genuine crime with how she handled the Team Star nonsense. I already didn't care for Penny but when she started shit-talking Nemona in Area Zero, my opinion plummeted so hard for the dork. Nemona is a sweetheart who just wanted a friend who not only could challenge her on equal terms, but also share her enthusiasm for battling. Girl was neglected by her snobby, useless parents and just needed someone to be there for her. And I will be pissed if she doesn't make a big appearance during the Indigo Disk DLC.
My main problem with Scar/Vio was how it ended for Arven. I don't think Arven is that interesting himself (I agree with what you said he's a character we've seen before) but I like dog getting better, so that made me happy. My main problem with the ending of the story is the game pretty much telling Arven "your parents were valid for caring more about their own research than you" and I feel bad for Arven just being forced into believing that his parents were fine for abandoning him and dying chasing their own research. I really just felt bad for him. Penny is also just bad in almost every way, I really don't like her.
I wouldn't even say I actively dislike Penny, I just really really couldn't even care less about her, she's just too bland overall. Like, how is she even remotely comparable to both Nemona or Arven? Definitely the odd one out and not in a good way, if that makes sense.
update to the whole Gen 9 companion kit, Penny has officially been outdone as the companion with the most toxic storyline. Kieran came with the DLCs and *oh my god, he's awful* Idk what any of the devs were thinking when they released this spiteful, angry kid who interprets everything through the lens of jealousy & vindictiveness. Idk what the fandom sees in him other than the internet sad boi archetype but I'm sick of this kid already, please bring back our girl Nem.
Penny was a character that felt like she was made for aesthetic purposes first and story last. You just know half the reason she exists is so the company can start selling that eveee bag. It’s like she’s Marnie 2.0 with bulling and # “relatable nerd girl” being her main character beat.
I was shiny hunting during the entirety of this video in gen 6 for a skitty, I really like shiny hunting. Yes, they don’t actually matter at all but I think it’s fun and rewarding to look at the shinies I’ve managed to collect
Just wanted to get a few quick thoughts out of the way: I never got the hate for X and Y, and I especially never understood how that hate kept growing over the years. It gave basically everything that Pokemon fans were clamoring for for years with the only exceptions being HMs, which were reduced to like 5, and most of them were moves you'd want on your team anyway. So you saying it's the second best was validation I was very happy to see for once. Over the years there have been two main things that I've noticed that this company is great at, one of which is never talked about. Firstly, character and creature design. Even at their worst, these guys create some memorable and amazing designs that people can obsess over. However, the part that's really been saving them is that Gamefreak is marketing at its finest. I don't know who's in charge of their marketing but for the last 6 years, they've been hard carrying this company in ways I didn't think were possible, learning over the years on which words to focus on for their games, with the last two gens leaning heavily focusing on the phrase "Open World" which gaming as a whole has had an unhealthy obsession with for like the last ten years. I think that aspect alone is why most of the new games have been selling as well as they have. I'm so glad someone on the internet with a decently sized audience finally mentioned how anti-climatic gen 5 was with the story, especially with how early they revealed the twist.
I'm not sure how you can call Gardevoir OP and not say the same for comparable psychic types like Alakazam, Gothitelle, Gallade or Hatterene; especially since Alakazam specifically has nearly identical stats, evolution progression and movepool. The fairy type is a definite difference for most but I don't think that buff is as meaningful as you frame it to be, I view it as more of a better way to differentiate Gardevoir and potentially alter how one might build a team around it. Also I don't think that giving Ralts to yourself as a starter is the "right" thing to do for a retrospective.If you always have this one pokemon, that's 1 less choice you make and 1 less new pokemon that you interact with and experience. It alters the choices the game presents and disrupts the game's balance, so the way you are experiencing the game is significantly different to the original presentation. How can you say "This is how the game was" if you've changed the first choice you ever make in it?
*"I'm not sure how you can call Gardevoir OP and not say the same for comparable psychic types like Alakazam, Gothitelle, Gallade or Hatterene;"* Alakazam requires trading, Gothitelle isn't as readily available, Gallade requires a stone, and Hatterene is available in exactly TWO games. It's not just about stats and power, it's about the Pokemon actually being reliably obtainable. Hence why NONE of the pseudo legendaries were on here. *"Also I don't think that giving Ralts to yourself as a starter is the "right" thing to do for a retrospective.If you always have this one pokemon, that's 1 less choice you make and 1 less new pokemon that you interact with and experience."* Problem with that sentiment: I could have just as easily caught a Ralts in every game except Black and White and promptly boxed the starter entirely. Boxing your starter is something you can easily do, and a lot of people do it. Furthermore, with the exception of frequent return members like Butterfree, my team is very different in every game. I interacted with more new Pokemon doing this retrospective than I ever did in casual play on my own. *"It alters the choices the game presents and disrupts the game's balance, so the way you are experiencing the game is significantly different to the original presentation."* It's only different if you aren't paying attention. Again: Boxing your starter is a perfectly viable thing to do in every game and the game makes no attempt to stop you from doing it. You can take whatever Pokemon you want. This idea that the starter is utterly crucial to game balance is something nobody has ever said before this video came out.
As much as I don't see an issue with Pokémon trying its hand at darker stories, it's SO nice to see Gold Silver and Crystal ranked high. After Pokémon Challenges convinced everyone they hated it more than anything else in the world, it's great to see somebody actually talking about what GSC did right.
I love Johto, it's my favorite region, but those criticisms are valid. Going to use Smithplay's mod whenever I'm feeling nostalgic. Not a difficulty mod, it's so that Johto does a better job repping itself. Like finding Houndoor and Larvitar in Johto, and a Johto mon on every Gym Leader's team. (And they are not "garbage")
@commonviewer2488 Oh, there are def valid criticisms against Johto, but he caused the biggest hate parade in Pokémon history over it being competitively unviable, and not any of its glaring flaws. I love Johto so much and I absolutely agree it missed the mark in pretty major ways on a few occasions but that isn't why it got so much hate
@@givemysundaebackah yes, because that's what casual players will worry about the most in a pokemon run: competitive viability- Jesus fuck Jan take off your nuzlocke glasses for 5 seconds smh
Honestly, the only reason I don't like hm's is because they restrict team building. Surf and fly make it mandatory to have a water or flying type on the team.
Honestly when i saw all those stalker memes about Nemona i believed them since i play a lot of pokemon and know how weird the rivals can be, so when i found out she was just easily exited and passionate about her interests i felt really bad since IM that kid. I have never related more to a character then when she had a worried moment when she thought she came on too strong and scared the player away since i tend to do that.
@@miaurakimchi7349 X&Y was really good for me, as it was the first Pokemon game I'd played since Gen 3, and it helped remind me why I enjoyed the series.
Sun and Moon have a big place in my heart and you are 10000% right about it the excessive dialogue. Replaying it is near impossible without mods. I’m surprised you didn’t mention a lot about the ultra pokemon. I loved the goofy lil aliens they added thats the kinda of energy pokemon needs not pokemon but bigger.
@@LilianOrchard Not extremely weird, but the sort of thing you expect from a Pokemon character… Like, I’ve heard more people talk about Kabu (Good taste, bi-the-bi), but there’s so much more product of Raihan to find, whether you’re looking or not.
your Blue take is based as hell and I agree entirely. I was replaying Yellow about three months ago and just... Blue isn't mean at all? He's just ribbing you in a friendly way and tells you about stuff. Never saw him as a mean guy and that replay cemented it. You're just childhood friends! And 10!
2:03:25 Yes, Cheren is still like that even if you play as male. So he's still weird and patronizing towards you, but not specifically because you're a girl.
There’s a part of me that likes Gallade’s design, typing, etc., but the gender stuff is really stupid. The solution to me is to just give Gallade the same 50/50 gender ratio. Means you don’t have to specifically look for a male Ralts if you want a Gallade (given Ralts is already a rare percentage encounter as is) and, most importantly, it’ll let you use a cool warrior woman with swords for arms on your team
Okay so after finishing the video I do have to say: despite it's problems I love *half* of gen 5, white 2 was my first game and Trubbish is my favorite Pokemon , but aside from nostalgia it was fun to trek through, N isn't in it as much so his verbosity just leads to you saying "why is the green man shouting I am right here" and with the addition of adding previous gen pokemon back the sequels fix the worst aspects of the originals. Plus Hugh being grumpy that the Pirate Knights stole his little sisters cat is a hell of a lot more compelling than whatever pouty bs cheren was doing. Yeah the story railroads you at points and the villain team just being Gen 2 Team Rocket as frosty pirates is really fuckin dumb but otherwise I think it holds up better than the originals at the very least.
I think another reason Psychic is regarded as being so OP in gen 1 is due to the ridiculous abundance of Poison types. Like yeah, sure, Psychic is pretty strong even on a neutral hit, that's fine, but it also happens to completely invalidate almost a third of the Dex because of type advantage and that definitely gives the impression of being an unstoppable death machine
I like that butterfree learns psychic moves REALLY early on and having access to psychic moves that early in the game is positively gamebreaking since psychic was busted in gen 1 not just as stab/Pokemon type but even just as a regular attacking type due to the glut of poison in gen 1 Edit: I actually like when open world games don't level scale because it feels rewarding to have my high level mean something and be a nice kind of reward for my work to curb stomp the whole game because I spent 10-15 hours doing nothing but exploring before even doing the first main quest. It's why I bounced off of assassin's Creed Odyssey eventually because I just never felt like I was ever getting more powerful.
Actually, the best type in Gen 1 was... Normal. Not only are you immune to the paralysis of Body Slam, but there are like three total Pokemon that resist normal, and one of them has base 60 HP and Defence. You almost never hit anything super effectively with Psychic moves, outside of the aforementioned Gengar, and Normal types had essentially no weakness. Sure, Rhydon exists, but it is also like the third slowest Pokemon, and has the special bulk of a piece of moldy cheese.
I won’t lie, I feel a bit of vindication that Gen 6 made it so high in your rankings. I’ve been saying for years how much I loved X and Y and I always got a weird look, like I just said the wallpaper tasted funny. But that was the last time I felt like Gamefreak was actually hit it out of the park and gave us something fun to play without any massive asterisks involved. Objectively, Gen 3 is better, and I do often go back and forth on which gen I’ll say is my favorite, but I will alway go to bat for Gen 6. Absolutely phenomenal work on this video Lily, I had a smile on my face nearly the entire time, and once it’s public I will absolutely plug all this hardwork everywhere I can.
I’ve come to the conclusion that pokemon is a franchise loved in-spite of itself. The core of it, the games, are not and have never been thing that drives engagement and wonder. The concept and base mechanics are what gets people excited and interested in the series, with the tertiary elements really being what hold the franchise together. Want a fun, entertaining adventure story through the world of Pokémon, watch the cartoon. Want expressive, mechanically interesting gameplay that lets you use your favorite mons, here’s the card game. Want it just collect stuff and admire you favorite characters, here’s the toys and other merchandise( and also the cards too). At this point it honestly feels more like the games are just obligations, that they need to make the games so that rest of franchise has stuff to base off of. That could be why the over all quality is struggling at best it seems. The games don’t need to be good because, yes people will by them anyway, but also because everything else that happens around the games is so much bigger it hardly matters. All that does matter is that they come at in time so everything else can as well.
The Patrick Stewart voicelines over Fuecoco's no thoughts-head empty stare got me good. I'll be repeating "Today, I saw a balloon" for months after that.
Your Pokemon retrospective has been a real comfort listen for me lately, especially for something in the background when I went back to replay Pokemon Emerald. I've gained a new appreciation for a lot of Pokemon and NPCs and more thoughtful battle strategies through that video. You honestly breathed a new kind of life into a childhood favorite of mind. Thank you, Lily.
Oh and I don't particularly like Penny or Arven either lmao. Penny I find to be particularly insufferable with how much it seems like she takes her friends and family for granted and really just embodies the White Girls Get Away With Everything with all her (honestly pretty concerning) cyber crime that she's only ever REWARDED for. The way she talks about her parents and seems to really think they're genuinely awful for being affectionate and interested in her is really what takes her from annoying to despicable for me, esp when Arven and Nemona are both RIGHT THERE with way worse parental issues. Penny really just comes off like a spoiled rich girl and a total ingrate to me. Nemona tho, best rival 100%, love the concept of that friend who's excited when you're getting into her fandom and starts a new game so she can play it alongside you. So wholesome.
Dude penny is the worst like are you serious girl you're the only one who has loving parents of either group She comes off as someone who wants to look cool but is such a lame person who didn't understand what she was even doing
I find it really ironic the devs removed a loved piece of the gameplay because "people are going to be playing the game less :(" and then turned around and made 90% of the game handholding so you have no choice but to go through a bunch of repetitive battles and cutscenes. Truly a work of art.
Despite gen 5 being my favorite generation (mostly for the sequel games, I’ve never played the original Black and White), I do really appreciate the willingness to criticize something that so many people unquestioningly love. I will continue to love BW2 for all the improvements it made over the original, but that doesn’t detract from the fact that these games do have flaws that a lot of people overlook because of nostalgia or misplaced loyalty. But yeah, overall- Really great video! Loved listening to your opinions for nearly 6 and a half hours, even if I don’t agree with some of them. (Also your idea for Lillie being the player character in Sun and Moon is so genius and I genuinely think those games would have been top tier if they just did that.)
Thank you for finally bringing attention to how unjustly maligned X and Y are. To this day I will scream from the rooftops that X, Y, and the 3ds gen 3 remakes are absolutely the best pokemon had to offer.
Stuck in bed with the flu, a swollen ankle and a second degree burn on my hand. This was the PERFECT time for this video to come out. So excited to watch this as I heal.
What a lovely video! Your sense of humour truly shines here, I cackled more than once ^^ watched parts with the hubby, and we're probably going to buy Scarlet and Violet for Nemona's sake ^^ Additional kudos to Mikay for providing these fabulous illustrations!
You had me at Trubbish is peak design! I also appreciated the Kingdom Hearts callback and that I'm not the only one with the "Eee eee oo oo ah, not Clayton" nightmares. The only place I feel I disagreed was with the Rivals. I enjoy the added battles with them, but I love battling with my friends more than Online so maybe I'm not bothered by my "in game" friends constantly challenging me to a battle or bugging me on my journey. Great video!
I agree on the whole "why are you playing pokemon for the plot??" Most of the reason I still play pokemon is to go on an adventure with all the neat pokemon. Even so my most nostalgic games are black and Y, but my favorite is still sun and moon because I just really enjoyed all the new pokemon.
People that started with gen 5 (including me) thought that Pokémon was worth playing also for the plot because that's their first experience with Pokémon. In fact I find gen1 and gen2 too aimless to play again while I enjoy the story beats and the climax of BW even after multiple playthrough.
What makes Starfall Street worse is that YOU DON'T EVEN GET ANYTHING! At least with the titans, you get to upgrade your bike and help a sick puppy. Starfall gets you jack, fucking, and shit
Finally got around to watching the whole video and I have to say this is easily the funniest video on your channel. Especially with the gen 6 portion of the video at one point I woke up my partner from laughing too loud. Even though there was obviously some things I disagreed with I still just had a really good time listening to your opinions on everything or even some parts of the franchise I liked. You should be very proud of this video Lilly!!!
Just a few minutes in and I wanna say first… As someone who grew up playing Pokemon without all the features you mentioned, honestly for me, I still love the games. I almost never had friends to battle with or trade with or adventure with because none of my friends had Pokémon despite the fact that they were really into it, too. Pokémon came to the US when I was 7 years old and I never had a single person to use the “features” with until I was like 15 or 16. So I have always enjoyed Pokémon just for the main game, although being able to trade now is a bonus.
Thanks to this video, I have a newfound appreciation for Nemona. I was also one of the unlucky few who only saw her as the Yandere stalker the memes portrayed her as before watching this.
As a gen 5 kid, yeah, you right. I think my most pleasant childhood memories were of the Black2 and White2 post game, because I could have all my favorite guys, then wander around and do essentially whatever I wanted. I've never been one for pokemon's plot, and I've found that Black and White have significantly less replay value compared to their counterparts because of the amount of button mashing. That being said, B/W2 also have a lot of dialogue mashing. Chronic gen 5 brain has me ignoring all that shit I suppose. Pokemon fans have a hard time accepting that the games they grew up with are bad, and I am no stranger to that. But snivy is my baby and I'll continue to play those games for her even if the rest of the game is shit
Lily's videos were the first I heard of dialogue criticism and, once I played the games.....there it was, in every town for B/W. Updated battle mechanics and a less linear sequel made up for those hangups, but it's funny that it's not mentioned elsewhere. Gen 2 and 5 were too much fan darlings to get criticized until recently.
@@alfredgomez3128 Actually Gen 5 used to be hated on INTENSELY, it’s only recently that it’s getting a lot of praise because the people who grew up with it are becoming adults online.
I think one thing I liked about Gen 7 is that it took their notion of the over-the-top villain and amped it up to 11. Like you, I was getting pretty bored of Pokémon villains who took themselves way to seriously only to be defeated by a child. Yes, Lusamine does think her motivations make sense to her, but to the outside world, she's completely unhinged. And I actually enjoyed that. It made the absurdity of "10-year-old stops end of the world" story slightly more palatable. That being said, I agree it has way too much dialog and the silent protagonist issue is a problem. I has a hard time getting into the start of Sun/Moon, but I liked some of the momentum once it got going.
While I know you didn't play the dlc for gen 9, the mochi mayhem made me love Nemona even more. The dlc has a charater named kiran who's character arc is "I've destroyed his childhood so much that he went into competitive battling." The player keeps beating kiran in battles that he gets depression. Mochi mayhem lets kiran meet Nemona, and he understands why the player is crazy strong because Nemona is crazy strong. The guy chooses a hodre of people vs fighting Nemona again. Nemona is a goddess of battling.
Wild. You HATE N and team Plasma. They are my legit favorite evil team and one of my favorite characters! I’m not a huge fan on Unova. But I love Plasma and N
I love seeing you have such different opinions from other UA-camrs I watch and myself, but one thing I can not get over is the way you talk about the difficulty. For how much you like to openly bitch on other people's criticisms, not being afraid to call the criticisms dumb or illogical, I find it very entertaining how much you like to bitch about everything being 'piss easy' or dealing so much damage that it just one shots everything. I couldn't disagree less. One frustration you named was the Magnezone of Kukui having sturdy and then using Mirror Coat. That is just a cool strategy to have, and very unexpected. It is nice that not every battle is just blindly using the best attack that Pokemon has available. Wouldn't you also consider the possibility of using a sturdy mon and making it use counter or mirror coat? Why can't the opponent? As for dealing a crap ton of damage, well, you can use stat boosting moves or use a more defensive pokemon or use status conditions, you know, to counter that. Not every battle that doesn't entirely go your exact way, is badly designed. You just have to adapt. That's why you have six Pokemon with four moves each, so you can adapt to as many situations as possible
"One frustration you named was the Magnezone of Kukui having sturdy and then using Mirror Coat." It's not necessarily that this is bad design, but after an entire game of getting oneshot by things, I was kinda sick of it. Sure it's a great trick... but it's a trick the game used 700 times already.
@@LilianOrchard You know what... that's a fair point, hahah. I suppose the games do tend to reuse tricks like that, Idk, I felt it worth mentioning because I have a lot of fun with trying to plan around strategies like that, but yeah, fair enough. Something I forgot to mention: You talk about Team Plasma and N like their actual thing was to make a point about Pokemon being better off freed. Not sure if I'm one of the few who got this, but I always felt like Team Plasma's thing, was to make a point about baseless propaganda. Every character in the game talks about how stupid Team Plasma is for believing what they do, and in the idealistic world Pokemon exists in, yeah, their argument is just bs. But I always felt like the message to take away from them had more to do with baseless propaganda and grooming, less so actually them wanting to 'free' Pokemon. Hope that makes sense. KingK makes this argument very well in his video on the games, if you are interested at all I'd recommend checking that out. Although I'm sure you'll end up disagreeing heavily, since Black and White and the sequels are his favourite Pokemon games lmao
@joof9812 It's still bad because it's Pokemon's writing, which is where Intent gets sabotaged by Execution. In practice all this amounts to is characters standing around waxing poetic about the idea of having ideas.
As someone who loves gen 4, seeing it ranked so low and not enjoyed so much hurts, but also. I can't really argue with it. It does railroad you too much, that's why I look for rom hacks to change that. The story does get up its own ass, Cyrus isn't charismatic or intelligent and he's constantly said to be those things. I love gen 4 primarily because yes it was my first Pokemon game, but also because I just love the designs and cold places. Sinnoh is still the coldest region in general, and I like that. I also like Cynthia a ton, but for a different reason than most people do. I don't think she's amazing because 'oh she's the strongest trainer ever, she'll beat anyone', like. It's a Pokemon game. If you know what you're doing and don't put a million self-imposed rules on yourself, you can steamroll her just as much as anyone. I like her because of how she's a very chill champion. You don't find out that she IS a champion until the end. She doesn't mention it, and with how eccentric some characters can be, she could just be another one. And then turns out she's the best of the region. I like her because her design is awesome, and because she's the first dedicated generalist champion. Blue was your rival and fighting you throughout the game, so him being a generalist makes sense. Lance is a glorified flying type trainer and neither Wallace nor Steven uses types outside their specialty. Cynthia has a generalist team that you can't just blast through, and when you're a kid and that's all you do, she feels way harder. I enjoy her being more laid back and just a nice character. All this said, Legends Arceus is just DPPT but good. Knocks the originals out of the park by a mile, not least because it just lets you go do stuff. And unlike SV, it doesn't run horribly. I got it because I love Sinnoh, it gave me hope for SV, and then I was SORELY disappointed. Beyond that, I agree with just about everything. Especially Nemona. Nemona is great and we all know why people made her out to be weird, but those people aren't worth listening to.
4:03:24 the eileen clip fucking sent me lmao You were so fucking done by that point. On a note related to Lily and Gladion, I strongly believe the latter only exists, not just for being a mandated edgelord like Silver, but because the main character of Sun & Moon, Lily, is an effeminate female girly girl girl, which they probably thought would drive away all of the guys with fragile masculinity who play these games, and so they made the aloof “literally me” guy who’s above all the others’ nonsense, Gladion. If that’s the case it’d certainly explain why he’s so superfluous to the plot, he was made as a band-aid to patch a wound that doesn’t exist. Quoting one of your WoW in a nutshell videos: “it’s just misogyny”.
Roxanne wasn't a teacher, just a senior student. She's believed to be somewhere in the age range of 15-17, so kinda like player characters starting from BW, whereas you're a 10-12 year old in the Hoenn games so basically you're beating up a senior from the Trainer's School when you beat her lol
It’s so nice to see someone who stands up for the character who just wanted to find a bestie who shares a love of her hobby and can do it on her level. When you first brought it up in your video about white favoritism in fandom I was, admittedly more surprised than I probably should have been that the Nemona stalking memes were so prevalent. As someone who gets really passionate about some of his favorite hobbies and struggles to find people who enjoy talking about these things at the level I’d like to engage in even today I felt very endeared to her story. Even outside of that I just enjoyed the energy she brought whenever she showed up and talked to the player character. Out of all the rivals in all the pokemon games I’ve played she’s easy the best and it’s a god damn shame she’s treated so poorly by the fanbase at large. Thank you Lily for highlighting her best traits.
Generally, I think that we disagree on which Pokémon games are better because we value different things. I was one of those Gen 4 babies you were talking about, so personally Platinum is my favorite, Black and White 2 closely after. Part of that is definitely nostalgia. Over time tho, Gen 2-3, and 6 have grown on me. I don’t think I will ever compete a Gen 1 game. Not enough going on. I can see the effort in Gen 9, but I can’t forgive the state of the game itself. It’s appalling that they shipped it this way. I’ve always had generally positive thoughts on Gen 7, and Gen 8 is meh.
I generally agree with your sentiment, just switch around gen 4 and 5 with me. It’s nice to be able to have a different opinion from someone and still recognize that their points are valid, and that’s generally how I felt about this video.
@@Alex-gg9ht even tho I’ve never played one of the originals (not remakes) to completion, I acknowledge that they’re up there with the greats, and would recommend them to beginning trainers.
I don't know how this channel and video got recommended to me, but I watched the entire thing. I agree with a lot of points made and honestly had a great time with this video. ✌️
It took me all day to listen through it and I had a blast! I especially liked how positively you talked about gen 3, 6 and Nemona specifically. I’m also proud of you for making this HUGE video Lily, It’s amazing!^^
I was so excited for this video to come out, and I’ve been watching it but by bit for the past 5 days, and MAN. I was really looking forward to hearing your perspective on these games, especially cause I haven’t touched many of them in years 💛 and what an AMAZING ride this was 💛💛💛💛
When I mentioned the villain's plot to my mom as "a guy wants to end the world to keep it beautiful forever" and she, no joke, said "that is very French". I just...lost it. I'm glad it wasn't some tired joke about white flags, it did take me off guard a second.
4:46:38 The catch is Rose is a moron and forgot Electric Pokemon already exist. Literal living, breathing, clean renewable energy, just feed them Leppa Berries and you're golden for life.
Man, everything you said about nemona and everything adjacent to that really got me to think about how I write. I’ve been trying to strike a balance between character drama and laying on the societal themes that I want to tie the story together. You put it nicely in (and sorry I can’t recall it that well) “yeah he killed hundreds but your main reason for being there is because he hurt your friend.” And I find it interesting that I teared up a bit hearing about Nemona because I know for a fact it wouldn’t have happened without the six hours going over every other Pokémon game prior to it. While I like your other brand of videos I like this format a lot too, even with how risky it is it’d be nice to see more like it going forward.
I would love to play a pokemon game (or even a fan game) based on your pitch for a Lily protagonist. A non silent protagonist discovering who they are is good, but add in gameplay that allows for customization and team building and it becomes so much more. That would be so much fun, we wouldn’t just be playing a game but making the story ourselves. It reminds me of how I felt playing Skylanders as a kid, because it incorporated the Toys to Life gameplay into its narrative of bringing back lost hero’s to save the world.
Honestly, your praise, gushing, and analysis of Nemona alone made me want to check out Pokémon Scarlet just so I could meet this character and see if she's just as amazing as you hyped her up to be. And she IS! I also got a Sprigatito plush since that was my starter pokemon and I named him after my cat. So congratulations, Lily. In one video you accomplished what my sister has tried to do for more than 5 years. You got me interested enough in pokemon to play it.
I stand on the precipice of a six hour video about one of my favorite franchises. Thank you for making long form to keep me from scratching my brain out at work.
5:26:16 you edited the animated boarder lines so they all match on the cut. Neat! But actually on topic, as someone who’s interest in Pokémon begins and ends with “cool aminals” this was fantastic. funny, interesting and a little confusing
You honestly bring up some of the most interesting Pokemon related takes I’ve ever heard, including your section on Gen 5 (my favorite Gen) and can totally see your point there. Great to see nice things about Gen 6 for a change too.
i just finished watching this video yesterday and i'm already rewatching it again lol. amazing work lily, been waiting for this one with big excitement! actually, gen 4 and 5 were my fav pokemon gens (platinum was the first pokemon game i played on emulator and white was the first game i played on my first actual console). however, i haven't replayed these games in like 10 years or so, watching your video i realised that they are a lot less good than i remember them being. as a tween i really liked N too and now, looking back at his dialogue...and considering i barely spoke english when playing pokemon white... he really isn't tha good lmao. and FINALLY, someone who looks at nemona's character like a sane person, she was my fave part of gen 9 too! i chuckled many times throughout the video, and really liked your thoughts on everything! i hope you'll have a good rest after tackling this monster of a video!
Wow! This was an incredible watching experience! I've loved your video essays for a long time, but the goofier tone of this one was so endearing to watch. A video this long and on so so so many games must have taken an ungodly amount of time to make, so the fact that it turned out so thoroughly entertaining is a clear demonstration of your skill and the passion you put into this project. I'm not even a big pokemon fan myself, but I will happily rewatch this again! I hope a nice break is coming your way after all this!
I do love a bunch of your ideas and points. The affection and mega evolution being introduced in the same game does feel like Game Freak gave up before trying it for real. Your points about Sun & moon's story are so true. I felt that way about the Scarlet and violet DLC as well. There are so many points where GameFreak so OBVIOUSLY was planning something but scrapped it at the last minute. Every single one of your takes about the rushed Dev cycle/shitty treatments of developers is 1000% valid. I do hope they take more time before developing the next installation, but I am doubtful. I was really struck by your point about how the 2010s (both within and without of Pokemon) treated villains as people who needed redemption/redeeming qualities. You pointed out something I hardly noticed but now see how true it is. Your opinion on police is correct. And so much more that I am struggling to remember after watching a 6 hour video. Kudos to you. I hope you see great success.
I totally understand your criticisms of Gen 9's story, especially Team Star, but I honestly really like Arven and Sada's stories. Arvens messy relationship with his parents just really resonated with me and I am very easily swayed by sick pet stories. As for the stuff with Sada and Area Zero, I just found the over the top drama fun. And if nothing else, it inspired me to start writing my own fan fiction to explore the unexplored potential of AI Sada as a character so I can't really bring myself to dislike it too much.
Genuinely confused at what youd actually want from the games? Its a story based jrpg? A lot of the criticism in this really comes off as wanting a different genre entirety.
I'd like them to focus on making the story better by playing to Pokemon's strength (character based, low to medium stakes storytelling) and not focus on padding their word count.
"It's a story based JRPG" I'm sorry is there some rule in Japan that RPGs have to waffle and say nothing for the first six hours?
@insertnamehere979
1. Protagonist having dialogue and being able to take part in the story beyond being a combat bot
2. Characters talking TO you, not talking AT you.
Is this getting through? Should I say it slower?
@@insertnamehere979 bro gtfo my comment lmaoo
1:57:05 maybe take another watch and gander homie
what's the original pokemon story? A kid who wants to be the best pokemon trainer, that's pretty much it
I don't think I've heard anyone say gen 5 looks ugly before. Out of all the criticism I've heard about that generation, this is the first time I hear someone say anything negative about the visuals
Nah i also think they suck. They are a ugly mix of 2d and 3d.
Damn I am dying on the hill that gen 5 is this uglies pixel art gen. its just awful
I've always thought that gen looked ugly. Part of the reason it took me so long to try it out.
Anecdotally, I hated the look of Gen 5 so much back in the day that I skipped Black and White entirely
I don't mind the bleak overworld of gen 5 but man I don't like how fangames/romhacks use or base on gen 5 sprites for Pokemon. They use dark and boring colors for little dudes and it's one of the reasons gen 5 Pokemon fly so low
As someone who absolutely loved how awkward nemona was and loved how she was trying her best to control herself. And as someone who as a kid and teen had a lot of difficulties controlling her excitement making it hard to make friends, it means a lot to me that there are other people who saw that as well. Especially, after seeing all the "yandere" stalker memes of her.
I love Nemona, she is the exact rival we needed. I see myself in her too. ❤
I loved Nemona so much I saw a lot of myself in her and even the thing she says to you after you complete the little quest thing for her hit hard. Im Autistic and do try and find any semblance of asd representation and Nemona is that to me tbh
Nemona is my new favorite rival. I love the build up to the final battle. You really feel it before the final battle when she says " all these people came from farand wide and of everyone I'm the most excited by a mile."
I absolutely adored Nemona as a rival. It was really nice for once to have a rival who was already very accomplished and wasn’t trying to truly compete with me or outdo me. She was already confident in her abilities and just trying to have a good time.
ETA: However I do feel a bit sad for Nemona in that her talents are so wasted in Paldea. I would absolutely love a game or movie that’s just Nemona exploring other regions, especially battle-heavy ones like Sinnoh or Galar, where she can truly excel. She’d have a blast trying to fight Cynthia.
I don’t understand why so many people started see her as a yandere like character. To me she seems like a nice girl who has trouble making friends, something I can definitely relate to. She’s awkward, but I don’t see how some might see her as a stalker. Stalkers can sometimes be socially awkward but not every person who’s socially awkward is a stalker.
She’s actually very refreshing compared to previous rivals who are most of the time in your face and don’t seem to recognize it, whereas Nemona actually recognizes when she oversteps and apologizes for it. It makes her feel more real than Hop or Hau. I would say she and Blue are the best rivals since their relationship with the player feels more natural than other rival characters. Blue has these snarks, but it feels more good-natured like he and Red are old buddies who have a healthy competitive relationship, like when good friends can toss insults and jab at each other because they know each other long enough to know when a insult is meant to be an insult or a good-natured jab.
Chairman Rose starting the darkest day is the equivalent of Jeff Bezos interrupting the Olympics to announce he’s summoning satan
😂
Wait when Jeff bezos did that ?
@@davidfilipe4460 yes
@ReiBeyondTheHeart yes
Galar is just the funniest thing looking back at it. All the graphics and stuff aside, I think it would’ve been funny if they had the British museum in there. Also this video made me realize Opal is just the queen in some kooky fashion.
Nemona is maybe the greatest rival character yet. I like how she's a representation of us, the longtime players, we are all Champions just entering a new journey, and she does the same in-universe alongside us, it's really cool. And I just enjoy her character's positive energy to be honest.
On the other hand she's just an annoying one dimention cunt
And if you play it again, now you're BOTH making another team to challenge your rival
@@RazHolly Whenever I play Pokemon (or any multiplayer game) with my friends we never do just 1 round/battle.
It is normally like 1 hour of back to back battles using various teams.
Even for Yugioh or games like Chess you do at least a best 2 out of 3.
I will never understand why people hated Iris. She was the best thing to come from gen 5 that wasn't a pokemon. She's a wholesome girl who deserves the world. Also the internet does Nemona wrong, she honestly reminds me of my past trying to make friends with other people and just getting brushed aside for being 'weird'. That weirdness of course being undiagnossed autism.
Racism is the reason
@@LilianOrchardGuess that explains the reception between Iris and Misty in the show: they’re both tomboys that are hot-headed and like to throw shade at Ash. And the white one who came first is loved as one of Ash’s best companions and the dark skinned girl that came later is seen as way too brash even though Ash did some pretty dumb things in the beginning of Unova. Well that and nostalgia for Misty practically carries her too
While I am still no fan of Gen 5, I do like Iris (yes I did begrudgingly try B2/W2). The gyms were pretty fun, but that and the Elite Four and Champion were honestly the most memorable thing (not terrible but I am going to always have fond memories of X and Moon in a different way).
@@ItsAlmighty21That’s what I’m saying! Also she really only milks it in the first half of Season 1 and everywhere else it’s in small bits. It’s more to do with nostalgia to Misty. And that applies to me with Iris since Black and White was the first section of the anime I watched and how I got into Pokémon
@@nebolisaeneli4397 Didn't ask
Lily in Gen 4: Mom, dresses are not really my thing.
Lily in Gen 6: CALEM WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOT WEARING A DRESS TO THE FINAL BATTLE!
Lily's character development is a sight to be hold.
In Gen 4 I literally cracked an egg
@@LilianOrchard thats not true and you know it. you know for a fact that she is just a normal girl and you have a fetish for making 10 year old girls be as mentally messed up as you are.
@drmeatball711 I was talking about the Togekiss you stupid, delusional, backwater fuck. I understand paying attention is difficult, but I'm sure your mother-aunt taught you SOMETHING before kicking you out into the swamp.
"Pokemon is old, really old. You wont believe how hugely vastly mindboggling old it is..."
Me being as old as Pokemon: hey man, thanks for reminding me.
Lily's jokes about Blue and Red being boyfriends is even better when every appearance of them after gen 1 they act like an old married couple
Lol
They're literally children stop forcing your weird gay fetish into everything
heh heh heh heh heh old married coupe
I could not imagine being like 65 years old
It took me embarrassingly long to realize there was supposed to be actual strategy in the pokemon battles. I brute forced my way through every single gym, type advantages/disadvantages be damned, because I was going to win with the starter pokemon I'd grabbed, god damn it. My sister took that strategy to the extreme and spent most of her time grinding her pokemon until the levels overrode the type disadvantage.
Laughed a lot at the chaotic commentary. Love our mutual murder bug, she deserves the best in the world, and all the blood of her enemies.
To be fair, as Lily pointed out, the early gens often did not have enough exp for a full team of 6, and unlike most RPGs, exp isn't shared automatically until the later gens (where your team now gets too much exp).
In general, the games are really bad at teaching you the game mechanics *besides* the "elemental rock paper scissors" (which they over-focus on).
Pokémon Stadium 2 is one of the few games that actually tries to teach the mechanics with its trainer school (which is kinda sad).
I didn't realize it until I played another franchise. 😂
This video made me realize this lmao. I had never thought about strategy outside of type until today
I mean.... Bashing in your opponents face in with an elementally flavored pipe is technically a strategy....
Just not an engaging one.
beating Onix with Charmander.
"Chinwag" is a real thing we... USED TO say...
We don't earn very much respect for the fact we don't say that very much these days. We kind of gave that up by... doing many silly things. "Leaving the Pokemon League" was one of them.
Loving the shade coming our way. Love the video!
After all these years... I have been finally called out. I will admit it, I named Silver '???' the first time I played because that's what the game told his name was!
Sames. Thought it was the games way of saying "I don't know."
I always interpreted N as a chracter people could love or hate on purpose. If you like N you the final battle is like a sad battle between friends. But if you hate him their are like a million scenes where he gets roasted 🤣
I never saw it that way. I personally like N, but I do really like your interpretation of what his character is supposed to be.
@egg_l0rd13 Fair I like N too! I guess what I meant is that you don't have to like N his whole (likely) character contradicts your belief in Pokemon. So if you do like N, it's likely cuz you feel bad for him and if you do hate him well the developers low-key expected that.
I personally thought Lusamine was interesting. It's implied she wasn't always this controlling, but that she went insane after her husband went missing (spoiler: husband was sucked up by a wormhole and spit out on an island in the middle of nowhere without his memories. He is alive, but has no idea he has kids or a wife, and he's living a pretty happy life in harmony with pokemon).
It seems she became controlling in response to that, which makes sense, something outside of her control turned her entire life on its head, it makes sense she would chase control. And then continuing her husband's research in a desperate bid to somehow bring him back, she runs into an ultrabeast that poisons her and twists her long term goal born of desperation to get her husband back THROUGH researching ultrabeasts into short term obsession with said ultrabeasts.
I don't think this is a testament to women in power, it's pretty heavily implied she wasn't ALWAYS like this and was once a loving mother and not some twisted psycho as a leader. That love got twisted, along with other traits of hers, due to mental illness born of trauma. It's not that she's a woman in power, it's that she's insane lol. That's why she says that to Lillie at the end. It's not that she "suddenly thought Lillie was beautiful", it's that by separating her from Nihiligo permanently you've kinda..... set her on the path to mental recovery. She may not ever completely recover, but she can get better now.
Lusamine is just a tragic tale of a woman who had to force her way through trauma despite the mental damage, because she had responsibilities to the Aether foundation, because she had kids, becuase maybe, just MAYBE she can get her husband back if she works hard enough. And then an opportunistic and evil ultrabeast harmed her further. This is part of the reason Gladion takes over for the Aether foundation after his mother finally takes the time she needs to recover. He was old enough to have memories of his mother before she went insane, when she was a loving mother. He recognizes that she's ill and needs help. Lillie seems to recognize her mother was sick as well, though it's shown that her memoirs of before are foggier than Gladion's.
I personally liked the story, it's thought provoking and really interesting. There's also not really a bad guy in the game except for the Ultrabeasts. Guzma is desperate to feel needed to someone, Lusamine is mentally ill and being used. I suppose the one scientist who was ALL FOR experimenting and torturing pokemon could be considered a bad guy, but he didn't exactly have the power to be a real bad guy. Just an employee who also used Lusamine's mental illness to his advantage.
As someone who's lived in Hawaii their whole life, I appreciate the alolan region trying to connect with the culture, but it feels like it's the regional equivalent of nostalgia bait.
"Hey guys the gym leaders are now called Kahuna! Did you get that reference?
Hey guys, the Pokemon like malasadas! Did you catch that?"
Yeah, thanks gamefreak. I know. How about something genuinely interesting about the mythology or land history? No? Just more huts on stilts and some recolored Pokemon? Alrighty then.
It seems like the "research" that Game Freak does for most of their regions is just Masuda going on vacation.
@@LilianOrchardhonestly more research than most game devs do into other cultures
There is something to be said about the fact that they couldn't even let your main character have the perspective of somebody from Alola. The first time a pokemon game takes place in a significantly different culture and they make a point to make you what is essentially a colonizer. I get why they did that for plot reasons (they wanted the character to be like the player and have them being introduced to the culture for the very first time), but it does carry some fucked up baggage.
Feel the same about sword and shield as an Englishman, shame they diddnt do a deep dive on the mythology and just went for the football culture
Aren't the Tapus based on Hawaiians gods tho?
Gen 4 is technically my favorite but that's because it was one of the last gifts I had gotten from my father before he died. In terms of a game for playing it would be probably be Arceus for the fact that you ca catch pokemon that are just walking around without engaging them in battle. Also I haven't payed for a pokemon game since sword and shield and that's not likely going to change any time soon.
Honestly I had a very different read of the Starfall Street storyline. Maybe it's the fact that I've only played the story once (and good GOD I'd still need some time, Scarlet and Violet take a long time to finish), but I took their story much less as them BELIEVING they were the villains and more that their actions got them branded as villains. From the rest of the school's perspective, these random kids got together and souped up giant Pokemon-run cars in cartoonishly outlandish outfits and started beating up other kids, and it really feels like their actions brought the hammer of the school board down on them simply because they just had to be the MOST about getting back at their bullies. Like, I don't think Penny actually feels bad about trashing her bullies, I think she just doesn't want to see them expelled because adults are stupid and don't understand that their actions were reactionary rather than unprovoked.
They actually recycle that story a bit for the DLC, where the tituallar Teal Mask Pokemon got branded the villain by ignorant townspeople who didn't understand what was happening, who then uplifted the bully Pokemon that Ogrepon beat into the fucking dirt as "defenders of the town," because from the townspeople's perspective this scary ogre thing just came down and beat the absolute tar out of three Pokemon for no reason.
So yeah, it read to me much more of "Adults dropped the ball on who was the bully/bullied," and it takes an entire Undercover Boss moment from the fucking principal of all people to realize that they need to do better by these kids
Still doesn't excuse Penny's stalker tendencies and the extended move sessions tho lol
Totally agree, the reason that I really like Starfall Street is because this is exactly the sort of thing my teenage brain would think up if I lived in the Pokemon world. Want your bullies to stop bullying you? Just show them up in the raddest way possible
Well the reason they’re branded as bad guys is because the school tried to pin the blame on them.
@@trainerrichard6859 If I remember correctly, it was the school's way to basically shut down the case like "No, there were no bullying in this school, it's Team Star that started everything" and because of that, the Team Star members started believing themselves they were the bullies.
That's why the current principal of the school didn't know about that story, the previous one erased all the details that could lead to showing the real story.
your playstyle is infuriating
How so?
@@LilianOrchard For a complete retrospective you sure do skip a lot of optional areas and trainers
@@Hierophant_Bean I didn't skip them, I just didn't include most of the footage because it was all about the main campaign. In the same way I didn't narrate every single battle I did.
I can't wait to watch this at least once a week on graveyard shift
You me both my friend!
Already doing so
Amen
Just started doing that now
literally me rn
As someone who does appreciate story and dialogue in video games in general, It is funny that you had the exact opposite views when it comes to pokemon gens 5-7 and gen 9
Can I just say how refreshing it is to hear someone praise Nemona?
The sheer amount of memes and slander she's had has been insufferably unwarranted.
She immediately skyrocketed to my favourite rival. I LOVE her design and her infectious battle-loving attitude was adorable. Plus the battles themselves were great. Her biggest "crime" was being excited to see you, THAT'S ADORABLE.
Whereas Penny committed a genuine crime with how she handled the Team Star nonsense. I already didn't care for Penny but when she started shit-talking Nemona in Area Zero, my opinion plummeted so hard for the dork.
Nemona is a sweetheart who just wanted a friend who not only could challenge her on equal terms, but also share her enthusiasm for battling. Girl was neglected by her snobby, useless parents and just needed someone to be there for her. And I will be pissed if she doesn't make a big appearance during the Indigo Disk DLC.
Lily you silly, you played the wrong version! In Shield there are *THREE* gym leader thirst traps. Yes, we Stan Icy Thiccums in this house.
The funny thing I see Bea as the third thirst trap for some reason in Sword.
My main problem with Scar/Vio was how it ended for Arven. I don't think Arven is that interesting himself (I agree with what you said he's a character we've seen before) but I like dog getting better, so that made me happy. My main problem with the ending of the story is the game pretty much telling Arven "your parents were valid for caring more about their own research than you" and I feel bad for Arven just being forced into believing that his parents were fine for abandoning him and dying chasing their own research. I really just felt bad for him. Penny is also just bad in almost every way, I really don't like her.
I wouldn't even say I actively dislike Penny, I just really really couldn't even care less about her, she's just too bland overall. Like, how is she even remotely comparable to both Nemona or Arven? Definitely the odd one out and not in a good way, if that makes sense.
sooo Glitch bug and other problem is not a problem wtf....how old are you?
update to the whole Gen 9 companion kit, Penny has officially been outdone as the companion with the most toxic storyline.
Kieran came with the DLCs and *oh my god, he's awful*
Idk what any of the devs were thinking when they released this spiteful, angry kid who interprets everything through the lens of jealousy & vindictiveness. Idk what the fandom sees in him other than the internet sad boi archetype but I'm sick of this kid already, please bring back our girl Nem.
I interpreted those lines from Arven as sarcasm to be honest. But 🤷♀️
Penny was a character that felt like she was made for aesthetic purposes first and story last. You just know half the reason she exists is so the company can start selling that eveee bag. It’s like she’s Marnie 2.0 with bulling and # “relatable nerd girl” being her main character beat.
I was shiny hunting during the entirety of this video in gen 6 for a skitty, I really like shiny hunting. Yes, they don’t actually matter at all but I think it’s fun and rewarding to look at the shinies I’ve managed to collect
Just wanted to get a few quick thoughts out of the way:
I never got the hate for X and Y, and I especially never understood how that hate kept growing over the years. It gave basically everything that Pokemon fans were clamoring for for years with the only exceptions being HMs, which were reduced to like 5, and most of them were moves you'd want on your team anyway. So you saying it's the second best was validation I was very happy to see for once.
Over the years there have been two main things that I've noticed that this company is great at, one of which is never talked about. Firstly, character and creature design. Even at their worst, these guys create some memorable and amazing designs that people can obsess over. However, the part that's really been saving them is that Gamefreak is marketing at its finest. I don't know who's in charge of their marketing but for the last 6 years, they've been hard carrying this company in ways I didn't think were possible, learning over the years on which words to focus on for their games, with the last two gens leaning heavily focusing on the phrase "Open World" which gaming as a whole has had an unhealthy obsession with for like the last ten years. I think that aspect alone is why most of the new games have been selling as well as they have.
I'm so glad someone on the internet with a decently sized audience finally mentioned how anti-climatic gen 5 was with the story, especially with how early they revealed the twist.
I'm not sure how you can call Gardevoir OP and not say the same for comparable psychic types like Alakazam, Gothitelle, Gallade or Hatterene; especially since Alakazam specifically has nearly identical stats, evolution progression and movepool. The fairy type is a definite difference for most but I don't think that buff is as meaningful as you frame it to be, I view it as more of a better way to differentiate Gardevoir and potentially alter how one might build a team around it.
Also I don't think that giving Ralts to yourself as a starter is the "right" thing to do for a retrospective.If you always have this one pokemon, that's 1 less choice you make and 1 less new pokemon that you interact with and experience. It alters the choices the game presents and disrupts the game's balance, so the way you are experiencing the game is significantly different to the original presentation. How can you say "This is how the game was" if you've changed the first choice you ever make in it?
*"I'm not sure how you can call Gardevoir OP and not say the same for comparable psychic types like Alakazam, Gothitelle, Gallade or Hatterene;"*
Alakazam requires trading, Gothitelle isn't as readily available, Gallade requires a stone, and Hatterene is available in exactly TWO games. It's not just about stats and power, it's about the Pokemon actually being reliably obtainable. Hence why NONE of the pseudo legendaries were on here.
*"Also I don't think that giving Ralts to yourself as a starter is the "right" thing to do for a retrospective.If you always have this one pokemon, that's 1 less choice you make and 1 less new pokemon that you interact with and experience."*
Problem with that sentiment: I could have just as easily caught a Ralts in every game except Black and White and promptly boxed the starter entirely. Boxing your starter is something you can easily do, and a lot of people do it. Furthermore, with the exception of frequent return members like Butterfree, my team is very different in every game. I interacted with more new Pokemon doing this retrospective than I ever did in casual play on my own.
*"It alters the choices the game presents and disrupts the game's balance, so the way you are experiencing the game is significantly different to the original presentation."*
It's only different if you aren't paying attention. Again: Boxing your starter is a perfectly viable thing to do in every game and the game makes no attempt to stop you from doing it. You can take whatever Pokemon you want. This idea that the starter is utterly crucial to game balance is something nobody has ever said before this video came out.
As much as I don't see an issue with Pokémon trying its hand at darker stories, it's SO nice to see Gold Silver and Crystal ranked high. After Pokémon Challenges convinced everyone they hated it more than anything else in the world, it's great to see somebody actually talking about what GSC did right.
That's actually kinda nice to hear.
I love Johto, it's my favorite region, but those criticisms are valid. Going to use Smithplay's mod whenever I'm feeling nostalgic. Not a difficulty mod, it's so that Johto does a better job repping itself. Like finding Houndoor and Larvitar in Johto, and a Johto mon on every Gym Leader's team. (And they are not "garbage")
@commonviewer2488 Oh, there are def valid criticisms against Johto, but he caused the biggest hate parade in Pokémon history over it being competitively unviable, and not any of its glaring flaws.
I love Johto so much and I absolutely agree it missed the mark in pretty major ways on a few occasions but that isn't why it got so much hate
@@givemysundaebackah yes, because that's what casual players will worry about the most in a pokemon run: competitive viability- Jesus fuck Jan take off your nuzlocke glasses for 5 seconds smh
@@rossobrien7358 There is genuinely no reason to call any Pokémon game worse than SwSh
"...and THIS kid who is begging for a kick in the teeth." will forever be how I describe Bede from now on. Great video.
Honestly, the only reason I don't like hm's is because they restrict team building. Surf and fly make it mandatory to have a water or flying type on the team.
So? Team building doesn't need to be that optimized
@@LilianOrchard True, but my team of six jumpluffs is not gonna surf the water, no matter how hard I try. I like jumpluff.
Honestly when i saw all those stalker memes about Nemona i believed them since i play a lot of pokemon and know how weird the rivals can be, so when i found out she was just easily exited and passionate about her interests i felt really bad since IM that kid. I have never related more to a character then when she had a worried moment when she thought she came on too strong and scared the player away since i tend to do that.
X&Y and emerald are my favorite games, and while emerald is universally applauded, it was nice to see X&Y get some well deserved love! 10/10 video
Me too! I actually really like X&Y for what it is.
@@miaurakimchi7349 X&Y was really good for me, as it was the first Pokemon game I'd played since Gen 3, and it helped remind me why I enjoyed the series.
X&Y was kind of my first game. My sister asked me to play her game when she got to the Elite Four and I from there was interested in Pokémon.
X&Y was the game that burned me out of the mainline series. Just sort of embodies everything I dislike about Gamefreak's failure of game design.
I'm just glad they did something different tbh.
Sun and Moon have a big place in my heart and you are 10000% right about it the excessive dialogue. Replaying it is near impossible without mods. I’m surprised you didn’t mention a lot about the ultra pokemon. I loved the goofy lil aliens they added thats the kinda of energy pokemon needs not pokemon but bigger.
I didn't mention the other Legendaries all that much.
When I first played my copy of Sun and Moon, I just read a book and clicked the button until I stopped hearing the ding for dialogue sound
4:34:20 “And Raihan… who is also there.”
Me: “And Raihan, who I’m sure the internet will be very normal about.”
Oh no were people weird about Raihan? I must have missed that.
@@LilianOrchard
Not extremely weird, but the sort of thing you expect from a Pokemon character… Like, I’ve heard more people talk about Kabu (Good taste, bi-the-bi), but there’s so much more product of Raihan to find, whether you’re looking or not.
your Blue take is based as hell and I agree entirely. I was replaying Yellow about three months ago and just... Blue isn't mean at all? He's just ribbing you in a friendly way and tells you about stuff. Never saw him as a mean guy and that replay cemented it. You're just childhood friends! And 10!
2:03:25 Yes, Cheren is still like that even if you play as male. So he's still weird and patronizing towards you, but not specifically because you're a girl.
Okay just curious, Brendan was pretty sexist so I wouldn't put it past Game Freak
There’s a part of me that likes Gallade’s design, typing, etc., but the gender stuff is really stupid.
The solution to me is to just give Gallade the same 50/50 gender ratio. Means you don’t have to specifically look for a male Ralts if you want a Gallade (given Ralts is already a rare percentage encounter as is) and, most importantly, it’ll let you use a cool warrior woman with swords for arms on your team
as someone who has gallade as her fave pokemon, i agree that it being genderlocked is stupid
Okay so after finishing the video I do have to say: despite it's problems I love *half* of gen 5, white 2 was my first game and Trubbish is my favorite Pokemon , but aside from nostalgia it was fun to trek through, N isn't in it as much so his verbosity just leads to you saying "why is the green man shouting I am right here" and with the addition of adding previous gen pokemon back the sequels fix the worst aspects of the originals. Plus Hugh being grumpy that the Pirate Knights stole his little sisters cat is a hell of a lot more compelling than whatever pouty bs cheren was doing. Yeah the story railroads you at points and the villain team just being Gen 2 Team Rocket as frosty pirates is really fuckin dumb but otherwise I think it holds up better than the originals at the very least.
I think another reason Psychic is regarded as being so OP in gen 1 is due to the ridiculous abundance of Poison types. Like yeah, sure, Psychic is pretty strong even on a neutral hit, that's fine, but it also happens to completely invalidate almost a third of the Dex because of type advantage and that definitely gives the impression of being an unstoppable death machine
I like that butterfree learns psychic moves REALLY early on and having access to psychic moves that early in the game is positively gamebreaking since psychic was busted in gen 1 not just as stab/Pokemon type but even just as a regular attacking type due to the glut of poison in gen 1
Edit: I actually like when open world games don't level scale because it feels rewarding to have my high level mean something and be a nice kind of reward for my work to curb stomp the whole game because I spent 10-15 hours doing nothing but exploring before even doing the first main quest. It's why I bounced off of assassin's Creed Odyssey eventually because I just never felt like I was ever getting more powerful.
Actually, the best type in Gen 1 was... Normal. Not only are you immune to the paralysis of Body Slam, but there are like three total Pokemon that resist normal, and one of them has base 60 HP and Defence. You almost never hit anything super effectively with Psychic moves, outside of the aforementioned Gengar, and Normal types had essentially no weakness. Sure, Rhydon exists, but it is also like the third slowest Pokemon, and has the special bulk of a piece of moldy cheese.
Very good video!
Also made me realize that if I care to watch a ~6,3h long video of yours, that i should probably subscribe.
I won’t lie, I feel a bit of vindication that Gen 6 made it so high in your rankings. I’ve been saying for years how much I loved X and Y and I always got a weird look, like I just said the wallpaper tasted funny. But that was the last time I felt like Gamefreak was actually hit it out of the park and gave us something fun to play without any massive asterisks involved. Objectively, Gen 3 is better, and I do often go back and forth on which gen I’ll say is my favorite, but I will alway go to bat for Gen 6.
Absolutely phenomenal work on this video Lily, I had a smile on my face nearly the entire time, and once it’s public I will absolutely plug all this hardwork everywhere I can.
I’ve come to the conclusion that pokemon is a franchise loved in-spite of itself. The core of it, the games, are not and have never been thing that drives engagement and wonder. The concept and base mechanics are what gets people excited and interested in the series, with the tertiary elements really being what hold the franchise together. Want a fun, entertaining adventure story through the world of Pokémon, watch the cartoon. Want expressive, mechanically interesting gameplay that lets you use your favorite mons, here’s the card game. Want it just collect stuff and admire you favorite characters, here’s the toys and other merchandise( and also the cards too). At this point it honestly feels more like the games are just obligations, that they need to make the games so that rest of franchise has stuff to base off of. That could be why the over all quality is struggling at best it seems. The games don’t need to be good because, yes people will by them anyway, but also because everything else that happens around the games is so much bigger it hardly matters. All that does matter is that they come at in time so everything else can as well.
Gen 4 had the best story, just not in the mainline games. Explorers of Sky had me hit an emotional peak at 10 years old
The Patrick Stewart voicelines over Fuecoco's no thoughts-head empty stare got me good. I'll be repeating "Today, I saw a balloon" for months after that.
Your Pokemon retrospective has been a real comfort listen for me lately, especially for something in the background when I went back to replay Pokemon Emerald. I've gained a new appreciation for a lot of Pokemon and NPCs and more thoughtful battle strategies through that video. You honestly breathed a new kind of life into a childhood favorite of mind. Thank you, Lily.
Oh and I don't particularly like Penny or Arven either lmao. Penny I find to be particularly insufferable with how much it seems like she takes her friends and family for granted and really just embodies the White Girls Get Away With Everything with all her (honestly pretty concerning) cyber crime that she's only ever REWARDED for. The way she talks about her parents and seems to really think they're genuinely awful for being affectionate and interested in her is really what takes her from annoying to despicable for me, esp when Arven and Nemona are both RIGHT THERE with way worse parental issues. Penny really just comes off like a spoiled rich girl and a total ingrate to me.
Nemona tho, best rival 100%, love the concept of that friend who's excited when you're getting into her fandom and starts a new game so she can play it alongside you. So wholesome.
Dude penny is the worst like are you serious girl you're the only one who has loving parents of either group
She comes off as someone who wants to look cool but is such a lame person who didn't understand what she was even doing
I find it really ironic the devs removed a loved piece of the gameplay because "people are going to be playing the game less :(" and then turned around and made 90% of the game handholding so you have no choice but to go through a bunch of repetitive battles and cutscenes.
Truly a work of art.
Despite gen 5 being my favorite generation (mostly for the sequel games, I’ve never played the original Black and White), I do really appreciate the willingness to criticize something that so many people unquestioningly love. I will continue to love BW2 for all the improvements it made over the original, but that doesn’t detract from the fact that these games do have flaws that a lot of people overlook because of nostalgia or misplaced loyalty. But yeah, overall- Really great video! Loved listening to your opinions for nearly 6 and a half hours, even if I don’t agree with some of them.
(Also your idea for Lillie being the player character in Sun and Moon is so genius and I genuinely think those games would have been top tier if they just did that.)
Thank you for finally bringing attention to how unjustly maligned X and Y are. To this day I will scream from the rooftops that X, Y, and the 3ds gen 3 remakes are absolutely the best pokemon had to offer.
How can you make "a complete retrospective" on a series that is not complete, nor is it in retrospect yet.
The original title was Pokemon Re:Play but that was too Kingdom Heartsy
@Lily_Orchard
Ah, understood.
Stuck in bed with the flu, a swollen ankle and a second degree burn on my hand.
This was the PERFECT time for this video to come out. So excited to watch this as I heal.
What a lovely video! Your sense of humour truly shines here, I cackled more than once ^^ watched parts with the hubby, and we're probably going to buy Scarlet and Violet for Nemona's sake ^^
Additional kudos to Mikay for providing these fabulous illustrations!
You had me at Trubbish is peak design! I also appreciated the Kingdom Hearts callback and that I'm not the only one with the "Eee eee oo oo ah, not Clayton" nightmares. The only place I feel I disagreed was with the Rivals. I enjoy the added battles with them, but I love battling with my friends more than Online so maybe I'm not bothered by my "in game" friends constantly challenging me to a battle or bugging me on my journey. Great video!
I agree on the whole "why are you playing pokemon for the plot??" Most of the reason I still play pokemon is to go on an adventure with all the neat pokemon. Even so my most nostalgic games are black and Y, but my favorite is still sun and moon because I just really enjoyed all the new pokemon.
People that started with gen 5 (including me) thought that Pokémon was worth playing also for the plot because that's their first experience with Pokémon.
In fact I find gen1 and gen2 too aimless to play again while I enjoy the story beats and the climax of BW even after multiple playthrough.
What makes Starfall Street worse is that YOU DON'T EVEN GET ANYTHING! At least with the titans, you get to upgrade your bike and help a sick puppy. Starfall gets you jack, fucking, and shit
Finally got around to watching the whole video and I have to say this is easily the funniest video on your channel. Especially with the gen 6 portion of the video at one point I woke up my partner from laughing too loud. Even though there was obviously some things I disagreed with I still just had a really good time listening to your opinions on everything or even some parts of the franchise I liked. You should be very proud of this video Lilly!!!
Just a few minutes in and I wanna say first… As someone who grew up playing Pokemon without all the features you mentioned, honestly for me, I still love the games. I almost never had friends to battle with or trade with or adventure with because none of my friends had Pokémon despite the fact that they were really into it, too. Pokémon came to the US when I was 7 years old and I never had a single person to use the “features” with until I was like 15 or 16. So I have always enjoyed Pokémon just for the main game, although being able to trade now is a bonus.
Thanks to this video, I have a newfound appreciation for Nemona. I was also one of the unlucky few who only saw her as the Yandere stalker the memes portrayed her as before watching this.
Just gonna throw it out there, I think lily may want a benadryl, just shooting in the dark here
i love nemona. oh my god. thank you so much for pointing this out!!
As a gen 5 kid, yeah, you right. I think my most pleasant childhood memories were of the Black2 and White2 post game, because I could have all my favorite guys, then wander around and do essentially whatever I wanted. I've never been one for pokemon's plot, and I've found that Black and White have significantly less replay value compared to their counterparts because of the amount of button mashing. That being said, B/W2 also have a lot of dialogue mashing. Chronic gen 5 brain has me ignoring all that shit I suppose. Pokemon fans have a hard time accepting that the games they grew up with are bad, and I am no stranger to that. But snivy is my baby and I'll continue to play those games for her even if the rest of the game is shit
Lily's videos were the first I heard of dialogue criticism and, once I played the games.....there it was, in every town for B/W. Updated battle mechanics and a less linear sequel made up for those hangups, but it's funny that it's not mentioned elsewhere. Gen 2 and 5 were too much fan darlings to get criticized until recently.
@@alfredgomez3128 Actually Gen 5 used to be hated on INTENSELY, it’s only recently that it’s getting a lot of praise because the people who grew up with it are becoming adults online.
I think one thing I liked about Gen 7 is that it took their notion of the over-the-top villain and amped it up to 11. Like you, I was getting pretty bored of Pokémon villains who took themselves way to seriously only to be defeated by a child. Yes, Lusamine does think her motivations make sense to her, but to the outside world, she's completely unhinged. And I actually enjoyed that. It made the absurdity of "10-year-old stops end of the world" story slightly more palatable. That being said, I agree it has way too much dialog and the silent protagonist issue is a problem. I has a hard time getting into the start of Sun/Moon, but I liked some of the momentum once it got going.
While I know you didn't play the dlc for gen 9, the mochi mayhem made me love Nemona even more. The dlc has a charater named kiran who's character arc is "I've destroyed his childhood so much that he went into competitive battling." The player keeps beating kiran in battles that he gets depression. Mochi mayhem lets kiran meet Nemona, and he understands why the player is crazy strong because Nemona is crazy strong.
The guy chooses a hodre of people vs fighting Nemona again. Nemona is a goddess of battling.
Wild. You HATE N and team Plasma. They are my legit favorite evil team and one of my favorite characters! I’m not a huge fan on Unova. But I love Plasma and N
I love seeing you have such different opinions from other UA-camrs I watch and myself, but one thing I can not get over is the way you talk about the difficulty. For how much you like to openly bitch on other people's criticisms, not being afraid to call the criticisms dumb or illogical, I find it very entertaining how much you like to bitch about everything being 'piss easy' or dealing so much damage that it just one shots everything. I couldn't disagree less. One frustration you named was the Magnezone of Kukui having sturdy and then using Mirror Coat. That is just a cool strategy to have, and very unexpected. It is nice that not every battle is just blindly using the best attack that Pokemon has available. Wouldn't you also consider the possibility of using a sturdy mon and making it use counter or mirror coat? Why can't the opponent? As for dealing a crap ton of damage, well, you can use stat boosting moves or use a more defensive pokemon or use status conditions, you know, to counter that. Not every battle that doesn't entirely go your exact way, is badly designed. You just have to adapt. That's why you have six Pokemon with four moves each, so you can adapt to as many situations as possible
"One frustration you named was the Magnezone of Kukui having sturdy and then using Mirror Coat."
It's not necessarily that this is bad design, but after an entire game of getting oneshot by things, I was kinda sick of it. Sure it's a great trick... but it's a trick the game used 700 times already.
@@LilianOrchard You know what... that's a fair point, hahah. I suppose the games do tend to reuse tricks like that, Idk, I felt it worth mentioning because I have a lot of fun with trying to plan around strategies like that, but yeah, fair enough.
Something I forgot to mention: You talk about Team Plasma and N like their actual thing was to make a point about Pokemon being better off freed.
Not sure if I'm one of the few who got this, but I always felt like Team Plasma's thing, was to make a point about baseless propaganda. Every character in the game talks about how stupid Team Plasma is for believing what they do, and in the idealistic world Pokemon exists in, yeah, their argument is just bs. But I always felt like the message to take away from them had more to do with baseless propaganda and grooming, less so actually them wanting to 'free' Pokemon. Hope that makes sense.
KingK makes this argument very well in his video on the games, if you are interested at all I'd recommend checking that out. Although I'm sure you'll end up disagreeing heavily, since Black and White and the sequels are his favourite Pokemon games lmao
PS: thank you for responding lol that's act rly cool
@joof9812 It's still bad because it's Pokemon's writing, which is where Intent gets sabotaged by Execution. In practice all this amounts to is characters standing around waxing poetic about the idea of having ideas.
I love the chaotic energy in this video. The whole benedryl bit during Sun and Moon made me cackle so hard. A BEEG smile on my face the whole video
As someone who loves gen 4, seeing it ranked so low and not enjoyed so much hurts, but also. I can't really argue with it. It does railroad you too much, that's why I look for rom hacks to change that. The story does get up its own ass, Cyrus isn't charismatic or intelligent and he's constantly said to be those things. I love gen 4 primarily because yes it was my first Pokemon game, but also because I just love the designs and cold places. Sinnoh is still the coldest region in general, and I like that.
I also like Cynthia a ton, but for a different reason than most people do. I don't think she's amazing because 'oh she's the strongest trainer ever, she'll beat anyone', like. It's a Pokemon game. If you know what you're doing and don't put a million self-imposed rules on yourself, you can steamroll her just as much as anyone. I like her because of how she's a very chill champion. You don't find out that she IS a champion until the end. She doesn't mention it, and with how eccentric some characters can be, she could just be another one. And then turns out she's the best of the region. I like her because her design is awesome, and because she's the first dedicated generalist champion. Blue was your rival and fighting you throughout the game, so him being a generalist makes sense. Lance is a glorified flying type trainer and neither Wallace nor Steven uses types outside their specialty. Cynthia has a generalist team that you can't just blast through, and when you're a kid and that's all you do, she feels way harder. I enjoy her being more laid back and just a nice character.
All this said, Legends Arceus is just DPPT but good. Knocks the originals out of the park by a mile, not least because it just lets you go do stuff. And unlike SV, it doesn't run horribly. I got it because I love Sinnoh, it gave me hope for SV, and then I was SORELY disappointed.
Beyond that, I agree with just about everything. Especially Nemona. Nemona is great and we all know why people made her out to be weird, but those people aren't worth listening to.
4:03:24 the eileen clip fucking sent me lmao
You were so fucking done by that point.
On a note related to Lily and Gladion, I strongly believe the latter only exists, not just for being a mandated edgelord like Silver, but because the main character of Sun & Moon, Lily, is an effeminate female girly girl girl, which they probably thought would drive away all of the guys with fragile masculinity who play these games, and so they made the aloof “literally me” guy who’s above all the others’ nonsense, Gladion. If that’s the case it’d certainly explain why he’s so superfluous to the plot, he was made as a band-aid to patch a wound that doesn’t exist.
Quoting one of your WoW in a nutshell videos: “it’s just misogyny”.
Roxanne wasn't a teacher, just a senior student. She's believed to be somewhere in the age range of 15-17, so kinda like player characters starting from BW, whereas you're a 10-12 year old in the Hoenn games so basically you're beating up a senior from the Trainer's School when you beat her lol
i feel like lumping BW/B2W2 into one segment is a little unfair, B2W2 improve on BW so much that they definitely deserve at least a mini section
Did I watch this in one sitting? Yes. Did I enjoy every second of it? Also yes! Love your work Lily ❤
It’s so nice to see someone who stands up for the character who just wanted to find a bestie who shares a love of her hobby and can do it on her level.
When you first brought it up in your video about white favoritism in fandom I was, admittedly more surprised than I probably should have been that the Nemona stalking memes were so prevalent. As someone who gets really passionate about some of his favorite hobbies and struggles to find people who enjoy talking about these things at the level I’d like to engage in even today I felt very endeared to her story. Even outside of that I just enjoyed the energy she brought whenever she showed up and talked to the player character. Out of all the rivals in all the pokemon games I’ve played she’s easy the best and it’s a god damn shame she’s treated so poorly by the fanbase at large. Thank you Lily for highlighting her best traits.
Man, I already loved Nemona a lot before this video but this just gave me even more appreciation for her character.
Generally, I think that we disagree on which Pokémon games are better because we value different things. I was one of those Gen 4 babies you were talking about, so personally Platinum is my favorite, Black and White 2 closely after. Part of that is definitely nostalgia. Over time tho, Gen 2-3, and 6 have grown on me. I don’t think I will ever compete a Gen 1 game. Not enough going on. I can see the effort in Gen 9, but I can’t forgive the state of the game itself. It’s appalling that they shipped it this way. I’ve always had generally positive thoughts on Gen 7, and Gen 8 is meh.
I generally agree with your sentiment, just switch around gen 4 and 5 with me. It’s nice to be able to have a different opinion from someone and still recognize that their points are valid, and that’s generally how I felt about this video.
What do you think about gen 3?
@@Alex-gg9ht even tho I’ve never played one of the originals (not remakes) to completion, I acknowledge that they’re up there with the greats, and would recommend them to beginning trainers.
I 100% named Gen2 rival ???
That's what he said!
I've been with Pokémon since the beginning and I never questioned why Oak left my house. 😂
I don't know how this channel and video got recommended to me, but I watched the entire thing. I agree with a lot of points made and honestly had a great time with this video. ✌️
It took me all day to listen through it and I had a blast! I especially liked how positively you talked about gen 3, 6 and Nemona specifically.
I’m also proud of you for making this HUGE video Lily, It’s amazing!^^
Nemona is a Goku without a Vegeta.
I think this is my first comfort UA-cam video
I was so excited for this video to come out, and I’ve been watching it but by bit for the past 5 days, and MAN. I was really looking forward to hearing your perspective on these games, especially cause I haven’t touched many of them in years 💛 and what an AMAZING ride this was 💛💛💛💛
The Businessman in the gen 3 Forest is not a capitalist, hes a worker.
Mr. Devon is his Capitalist...
3:23:08 replayed this bit so many times just because i love the delivery of "because you're fucking ugly"
I LOVE HER DELIVERY SO MUCH!
When I mentioned the villain's plot to my mom as "a guy wants to end the world to keep it beautiful forever" and she, no joke, said "that is very French". I just...lost it. I'm glad it wasn't some tired joke about white flags, it did take me off guard a second.
4:46:38 The catch is Rose is a moron and forgot Electric Pokemon already exist. Literal living, breathing, clean renewable energy, just feed them Leppa Berries and you're golden for life.
Man, everything you said about nemona and everything adjacent to that really got me to think about how I write. I’ve been trying to strike a balance between character drama and laying on the societal themes that I want to tie the story together. You put it nicely in (and sorry I can’t recall it that well) “yeah he killed hundreds but your main reason for being there is because he hurt your friend.”
And I find it interesting that I teared up a bit hearing about Nemona because I know for a fact it wouldn’t have happened without the six hours going over every other Pokémon game prior to it.
While I like your other brand of videos I like this format a lot too, even with how risky it is it’d be nice to see more like it going forward.
I would love to play a pokemon game (or even a fan game) based on your pitch for a Lily protagonist. A non silent protagonist discovering who they are is good, but add in gameplay that allows for customization and team building and it becomes so much more. That would be so much fun, we wouldn’t just be playing a game but making the story ourselves. It reminds me of how I felt playing Skylanders as a kid, because it incorporated the Toys to Life gameplay into its narrative of bringing back lost hero’s to save the world.
Honestly, your praise, gushing, and analysis of Nemona alone made me want to check out Pokémon Scarlet just so I could meet this character and see if she's just as amazing as you hyped her up to be.
And she IS!
I also got a Sprigatito plush since that was my starter pokemon and I named him after my cat.
So congratulations, Lily. In one video you accomplished what my sister has tried to do for more than 5 years. You got me interested enough in pokemon to play it.
Hey I also named my Sprigatito after my cat!
I stand on the precipice of a six hour video about one of my favorite franchises.
Thank you for making long form to keep me from scratching my brain out at work.
This is my first video seeing of you guys, really loved it. I was lmao at times and tearing up with yo at others. Really good, I subscribed for more.
Pokemon has so much nostalgic charm that it'll always be subjectively a masterpiece
5:26:16 you edited the animated boarder lines so they all match on the cut. Neat! But actually on topic, as someone who’s interest in Pokémon begins and ends with “cool aminals” this was fantastic. funny, interesting and a little confusing
You honestly bring up some of the most interesting Pokemon related takes I’ve ever heard, including your section on Gen 5 (my favorite Gen) and can totally see your point there. Great to see nice things about Gen 6 for a change too.
I'm glad the love for Trubbish is finally showing. My personal favorite aspect of it is that Pokemon considers it a CAT.
It's the evolution that makes me never evolve one. No thnx garbador go away.
I always loved Trubbish and Garboder tbh they ALWAYS felt like a Gen 1&2 Pokémon and fit alongside Muk & Wheezing lmao
With all due respect, only a man talks about Gardevoir like that.
Comedically?
'Why is it that when someone says "With all due respect" what they really mean is Kiss My Ass?'
i just finished watching this video yesterday and i'm already rewatching it again lol. amazing work lily, been waiting for this one with big excitement! actually, gen 4 and 5 were my fav pokemon gens (platinum was the first pokemon game i played on emulator and white was the first game i played on my first actual console). however, i haven't replayed these games in like 10 years or so, watching your video i realised that they are a lot less good than i remember them being. as a tween i really liked N too and now, looking back at his dialogue...and considering i barely spoke english when playing pokemon white... he really isn't tha good lmao. and FINALLY, someone who looks at nemona's character like a sane person, she was my fave part of gen 9 too! i chuckled many times throughout the video, and really liked your thoughts on everything! i hope you'll have a good rest after tackling this monster of a video!
only 10 minutes in and the storytelling and humor is perfect for me, very excited to chip away at this video while at work
Wow! This was an incredible watching experience! I've loved your video essays for a long time, but the goofier tone of this one was so endearing to watch. A video this long and on so so so many games must have taken an ungodly amount of time to make, so the fact that it turned out so thoroughly entertaining is a clear demonstration of your skill and the passion you put into this project. I'm not even a big pokemon fan myself, but I will happily rewatch this again! I hope a nice break is coming your way after all this!
I do love a bunch of your ideas and points.
The affection and mega evolution being introduced in the same game does feel like Game Freak gave up before trying it for real.
Your points about Sun & moon's story are so true. I felt that way about the Scarlet and violet DLC as well.
There are so many points where GameFreak so OBVIOUSLY was planning something but scrapped it at the last minute. Every single one of your takes about the rushed Dev cycle/shitty treatments of developers is 1000% valid. I do hope they take more time before developing the next installation, but I am doubtful.
I was really struck by your point about how the 2010s (both within and without of Pokemon) treated villains as people who needed redemption/redeeming qualities. You pointed out something I hardly noticed but now see how true it is.
Your opinion on police is correct.
And so much more that I am struggling to remember after watching a 6 hour video. Kudos to you. I hope you see great success.
“Padded like a menstruating firehouse”
I didn’t know I was in this video
I came here for Gen 1 and 2 because I'm older than dirt, but I stayed and subbed for the energy you brought to this. Nice work.
I totally understand your criticisms of Gen 9's story, especially Team Star, but I honestly really like Arven and Sada's stories. Arvens messy relationship with his parents just really resonated with me and I am very easily swayed by sick pet stories.
As for the stuff with Sada and Area Zero, I just found the over the top drama fun. And if nothing else, it inspired me to start writing my own fan fiction to explore the unexplored potential of AI Sada as a character so I can't really bring myself to dislike it too much.