I've told avoidants in the past that they confuse relational chemistry with relational chaos. Wanting chemistry is normal! However, avoidants are usually not able to identify the warmer, more comfortable feelings associated with tenderness and depth of feeling. Rather, they chase "fantastical" "chemistry" which really is just: relational chaos. The "push pull" nonsense for them feels *normal* and familiar (which they confuse as positive feelings only bc it is what they are used to!). I found her question really insightful: "do you regret saying or not saying anything?" I also think maybe a useful reframe (not for everyone but for some) is to think of avoidant discard as them the avoidant experiencing emotional disembowelment. The meat and guts of their own feelings drop out from under them due to profound (and misplaced) fear. They are therefore not discarding us (though it certainly feels that way!) but *their own guts* - their own emotional twistedupness, their own feelings- they discard it, feel empty in the aftermath and so on. Ofc, any survivor of this stuff might want to name it as "no i was discarded, and I need to name that" and that is totally fine - I've just noticed a tendency for women [not OP, but generally] to *internalize* what men do rather than place the actions of avoidant men within the context of those men's lives. The best, burden-releasing thing I ever did was to realize: an avoidant man's actions have 0 to do with me.
So similar to my story with my fearful avoidant boss/manager who had a previous wife who cheated. Texted me constantly; he'd initiate, and often would drink while doing so. I heard almost all the same things from him too. After so many boomerangs, he said "Date other guys" etc. which hurt me so deeply after there were times he said we were made for each other and our bond was spiritual. And he'd say that while in shutdown mode, but while he was in anxious mode, he'd shame me for anything pertaining to other men that had ever flirted with me or tried to date me in my past. He was massively jealous of one man from my past. I heard the "I can't give you what you want" anytime I tried to address his abusive behavior.
Yes, AND NO. I am not an avoidant. I am ready. BUT I still feel some fear, and hesitate at the beginning. He was just bold enough to SHARE his insecurities, but that gave HER power (hopefully your tone Ken, and her tone aren't condeming him for being vulnerable. I have had people red flag me and I'm like HUH, HUH what the hell - I like you, what is going on. We are all allowed to hesitate at the beginning A) because we've not built trust B) Yes I don't know this person, and usually the ones who are so 'it's gonna be ok' are the brutal breakup ones. The avoidants. SO AVOIDANTS can be seen from BOTH ANGLES, both people in this story. TBH I BET you she would have broken up with you first. She already was planning it! THIS IS THE ISSUE, IT'S A GAME TO WHOSE EGO IS GOING TO BE DESTROYED FIRST. BOTH PEOPLE, ARE TERRIFIED SECRETLY.
I've told avoidants in the past that they confuse relational chemistry with relational chaos. Wanting chemistry is normal! However, avoidants are usually not able to identify the warmer, more comfortable feelings associated with tenderness and depth of feeling. Rather, they chase "fantastical" "chemistry" which really is just: relational chaos. The "push pull" nonsense for them feels *normal* and familiar (which they confuse as positive feelings only bc it is what they are used to!).
I found her question really insightful: "do you regret saying or not saying anything?"
I also think maybe a useful reframe (not for everyone but for some) is to think of avoidant discard as them the avoidant experiencing emotional disembowelment. The meat and guts of their own feelings drop out from under them due to profound (and misplaced) fear. They are therefore not discarding us (though it certainly feels that way!) but *their own guts* - their own emotional twistedupness, their own feelings- they discard it, feel empty in the aftermath and so on. Ofc, any survivor of this stuff might want to name it as "no i was discarded, and I need to name that" and that is totally fine - I've just noticed a tendency for women [not OP, but generally] to *internalize* what men do rather than place the actions of avoidant men within the context of those men's lives. The best, burden-releasing thing I ever did was to realize: an avoidant man's actions have 0 to do with me.
Do they not realize that how they are behaving is so textbook dismissive avoidant?
i think most of them don't, some do but may be unable to change if their fears are stronger than the desire to heal
They don't - esp the men - due gendered norms around introspection
@@shriyahari9855: Yeah, there are no gendered norms around introspection. Men are introspective, but some are told to disregard their feelings.
I’m starting to see people say that
“If there’s a spark, it’s a red flag”
Is it possible to feel a spark with someone that’s healthy for you?
A feeling of comfort and safety to a degree is a green flag. Chemistry hasn't ever created successful relationships.
So similar to my story with my fearful avoidant boss/manager who had a previous wife who cheated. Texted me constantly; he'd initiate, and often would drink while doing so. I heard almost all the same things from him too. After so many boomerangs, he said "Date other guys" etc. which hurt me so deeply after there were times he said we were made for each other and our bond was spiritual. And he'd say that while in shutdown mode, but while he was in anxious mode, he'd shame me for anything pertaining to other men that had ever flirted with me or tried to date me in my past. He was massively jealous of one man from my past. I heard the "I can't give you what you want" anytime I tried to address his abusive behavior.
Yes, AND NO. I am not an avoidant. I am ready. BUT I still feel some fear, and hesitate at the beginning. He was just bold enough to SHARE his insecurities, but that gave HER power (hopefully your tone Ken, and her tone aren't condeming him for being vulnerable. I have had people red flag me and I'm like HUH, HUH what the hell - I like you, what is going on. We are all allowed to hesitate at the beginning A) because we've not built trust B) Yes I don't know this person, and usually the ones who are so 'it's gonna be ok' are the brutal breakup ones. The avoidants. SO AVOIDANTS can be seen from BOTH ANGLES, both people in this story. TBH I BET you she would have broken up with you first. She already was planning it! THIS IS THE ISSUE, IT'S A GAME TO WHOSE EGO IS GOING TO BE DESTROYED FIRST. BOTH PEOPLE, ARE TERRIFIED SECRETLY.