AC Electric Car Conversion 101 part 001
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- Опубліковано 4 лис 2008
- Converting a Dodge Neon to electric so you can too!
Watch the playlist of this entire project! • DIY AC Electric Car Co...
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This car was a project built by our friend Tom, converting a Dodge Neon to electric with an AC motor and industrial variable frequency drive.
To learn about my Geo Metro DC Electric Car conversion, please watch: • FULL OFFICIAL Build Yo...
To learn how to convert a motorcycle to electric, please see: • FULL OFFICIAL Build Yo...
Information on all this projects, along with continuing new projects, can be found at: 300mpg.org
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-Ben Nelson - Авто та транспорт
Tom got a matched AC motor and the variable frequency drive for it as a matched set (for free, I think, knowing the right people.....)
The AC system also has regen built right in.
Is the motor an AC baldor industrial 30hp motor? I hvae one laying around I want to use. The fvd might need to be purchased as the one I have would need modification to supply the DC bus directly instead of industrial 3ph supply. Thanks for this video.
@@idus Yes, I believe that is exactly an AC baldor industrial 30hp motor. I recall that Tom used a stock industrial Variable Frequency Drive with it, and I'm pretty sure that he just fed it DC directly from the batteries with no alteration to the VFD. Many devices that deal with motor control need to convert AC to DC as a first step. If you just give it DC in the first place, it works just as well.
@@BenjaminNelsonX That is great news. Thank you
@@BenjaminNelsonX So, if I understand, I can get one of the baldor motors (say a 20 hp for a few hundred) and run it off DC battery bank? I am doing this on a sailboat, so same concept (couple the motor shaft to the prop shaft) but less power requirement.
@@j.goebbels2134 The important thing to remember for an AC motor is that there is a variable frequency inverter which takes the Direct Current from the batteries and converts it to Alternating Current to run the motor.
The coupler on my Electric Geo Metro was a different style than the one shown in this video as well. There's more than one way to skin a cat, but the important part is that you can reliably transfer the power from the motor to the transmission, whether with a clutch, Love-Joy, splined solid coupler, or whatever else works.
@TheDoyleClan
The car belongs to my friend, Tom.
He chose the car because he already owned a PT Cruiser, which is the same platform as the Neon. So, he already knew how to work on one and that he fit in it OK (he's really tall!)
The motor was salvaged from some factory equipment and INCLUDED the matching AC frequency drive needed to run it. Insurance and license is completely normal. If you want to get technical, cars like this would qualify as a "hot rod".
Just watched all the videos in this series, thank you so much for all the work you guys put into making them. I think you would rock everyone's world if you were to find a sponsor and do another conversion in full detail with perhaps lithium batteries. All the best to you, cheerio!
great information and explained! well done guys! thank you for sharing!
I saw all your videos,really brilliant job.I love what you do.
A standard, or manual, transmission is what's used for most home electric car conversions. In an electric car you can either use a clutch or directly couple the motor and transmission together. Both ways work, and each has advantages and disadvantages.
Thanks for making the video. It really help me understand the principle
Brilliant! Thank you for making this content.
Thank you. I won't be doing my own electric car but I love learning. Good job. We need to get off gas ASAP. Again thank you, I will be watching the rest of your vids.
Excellent video. Very well produced and simple explanation.
Thank you for the great answer. I've heard of some people running their EV without a transmission, kind of like the Tesla but I think most of those cars are rear wheel drive and also use a special AC or DC motor.
Great value I am proud of you sir
I used to use those couplers to mate electric motors to pumps and gearbox shafts. We used to use a laser system to determine how far off the two shafts were and then apply metal shims to the mounts as necessary. Without fail, if the two shafts were not aligned, those couplers would eventually eat through the rubber star and then proceed to chewing up the metal of the couplers themselves. Aligning them as perfectly as possible is critical for long use. Those that were lasted a long time.
Excellent, Thanks for the help :)
@justfurfunny
No, the only trouble I have had was getting through emissions testing. There is no tailpipe and no car computer for OBDII, so they can't test it. It took me a while to find the right guy to talk to and get an exemption from testing.
Since it's a car conversion, (think Hot-Rod!) everything from the original car still applies.
Last I checked, there is NO ELECTRIC check box at the DMV. Your car is gas or diesel only. I am not sure what they will do for the Volt, Leaf, etc.
This is my buddy Tom's project, so I was just the guy documenting this and making the videos, but not the guy who actually built the project. I seem to remember him saying that he's spent between $3-4,000. That includes the cost of the car and all the parts.
@Jacno77
What would be illegal about it? You still need to be registered, have insurance, etc.
Other than that, it's just a car.
If you are in an area with smog/emissions testing, you may need an exemption from that.
@robviolin1 Some factory produced EVs with very high end electric motors use a gear reduction and differential. In this case,the transmission gives you the gear reduction. In front-wheel drive cars, the differential is built into the transmission. (You still need the drive wheels to be able to go different speeds to go around turns.)
Also, with a single large motor, you just need a good place to mount it. That means the easiest thing to do is just connect it directly to the transmission.
Great one. Now that is something I want.
good stuff benjamin!
Electric motor and gearbox. Big range. Good work guy.
Great job and keep it up.
Hay AlamoCityCello, you seem to have a lot of EV knowledge, but I Give these guys credit for making the effort to provide us this info when you have not. Its easy to be critical about the efforts of others when you dont have a video to be critiqued.
Peace man
Hi handsome. Great video and support. This is exactly what I need for my 2002 sprinter 2500.
@Landcruiser45
On a front-wheel drive car, the differential is part of the transmission. You need some way to connect the motor to the wheels, so the easiest way to do that is to connect it directly to the transmission.
Electric motors are not all powerful. While they do have a wider range of RPM than a gas engine, being able to use multiple gears will allow you to use fewer amps, keeping your batteries happy and allowing for longer range.
@BenjaminNelson
Hello, thank you for this great effort, but I have some questions.. How is the gear shift after removing the clutch..? The second question I have a car that weighs 1600 kilograms, does it work with the crane engine, which is 5 kw Just does it perform the same as the 100 horsepower engine?
This is brilliant.
Thanks for sharing!
I would love to know how you went about choosing the motor and the car. I also would like to know if there was any issue getting the car insured and licensed?
Thanks again.
Two good reasons in this case. One, this particular motor has a fairly limited range of rpm and torque, not unlike a gas engine, and two, you still need some way to split the power (such as a differential) and connect it to the front wheels. In a typical front-wheel drive car, the transmission is actually a "transaxle" which has the gearing, the power split, and that half-shafts that go to each of the front wheels.
Without the transmission, you would have to design and build all that yourself!
Thanks Ipgas. If you can post a video, that's great. Make sure to post it as a video response to this one! I also know a guy converting an S10 truck, keeping the flywheel and clutch. I hope to do a video showing that as well.
Watching in 2022, and to be honest I didn’t think tech was at this point in 2008! Really cool stuff
@chrstphrharp1 The builder got an AC motor AND its matching inverter/controller (AC drive) for free out of factory salvage. He simply modified the setup to run a car. An AC system is more efficient (no brushes) and features regenerative braking. He's also an electronics guy and enjoys the design challenge of this unique vehicle.
Go Tom You Rock!!!
I think you are right.I have both motors and AC shaft rolls smoothly just by finger.To make it roll DC motor, I have to use whole hand to overcome slight brush friction.As you say,the good AC controller will do it,the problem is to make one very efficient at low cost.DC is easy to controll.
Ok - thanks for the good information. Can I use my automatic transmission in my 1998 Ford Windstar?
Hi, just wondering by not having a clutch would it hurt the motor when down hill running although you are braking ? or just shift gearbox to neutral? or maybe it won't hurt the motor if it becomes the driven?
@justfurfunny
Milwaukee and Waukesha Counties both require emissions testing. It's a county thing, not a state-wide thing.
True! Also, for me, it was pretty hard to fit the clutch, just because the shaft on the motor was pretty short and it has a small diameter. My motor has a peak of 5200 rpm, so to fit the flywheel, pressure plate etc on such a small shaft, I thought it was pretty risky. And when I saw that you also went for a clutchless setup, a decided to go the same way.
Hi Nelson if i have Electric source Alternating i want control the speed of motor i dont can to employ Variable Frequency Drive , how kind of variator can to use ?
What type of motor and where would you get it to retrofit in 86 Toyota 4Runner. I fell in love with the body style of this Toyota since back to the Future I want it to be electric and have more power than the ice motor.
wont you need the clutch to shift gears?
Thank you.
Thanks for that. At the moment I can't find the batteries that I want for less than £2000, and I can't justify spending that kind of cash+ on a vehicle that I can't jump into and drive over a hundred miles each way. I did nearly 450 miles the other Saturday collecting a kayak i'd bought. Even with the kayak strapped to an inflatable mattress to the roof of my 2000 1.9L diesel Seat Ibiza, I still averaged 67.9 mpg for the tank of fuel, which I thought was pretty good for an old shed!
Would you say this is doable to a Land Rover defender diesel? It has 4wd, a low and high range box and 5 speed manual. Would be really interested in doing this
Hi benjamin nelson
what is the power rating of the motor which you are using in this video. And also could you tell me how did you go about choosing a particular motor for replacing the car engine you have choosen.
@robviolin1
On a front wheel drive car, the transmission IS the drive train. A motor like this has a limited range of RPM, so you still need the gears anyways.
I have a house boat with slant 6 motors I want to replace. I could use some advice on how to set up a throttle and battery system.
Great video series... just wish I could decipher all the car jargon. My mind goes blank & I start to drool a little reading all the comments & replies. Please keep up the good work, though.
i couldnt help but feel like a 6th, 7th or even 8th gear would be prime for this to get more top speed? do you think maybe a cvt style transmission would be best for an electric motor?
Direct coupling works fine. Tom uses all the gears in his car. He has a button on the stick shift that goes to the AC Drive that automatically spins the motor at the right speed to shift without needing a clutch.
A big part of electric cars is all about limiting amps. Too many amps through the motor for too long makes heat and kills motors. Use of proper gearing keeps them happy.
How strong is that motor? in pk? and voltage. I have a 15 Kilowatt type ad motor is this enough? I think that making more rpm and use th transmission gearwil
work here.
the coupling part is pretty cool...
Hi Seth great videos what about cost for the motor and from is the best place to get them used or new?? Thanks.
I think I have to agree with Dan here. AC is more efficient INTERNAL to the motor. DC may be more efficient at the controller, because it's just switching DC on and off really quick, whereas an AC drive DOES have to convert from DC to AC, but I wouldn't say that you "loose a lot". A big part of why this project happened was that Tom got some free batteries to start with, and then a really good deal on a used industrial AC motor and drive. We'll see more AC home conversions as prices fall.
Hello Tom, great video, enjoyed every bit of it. Just a question, what is the specification of the motor that you have used, i.e the wattage, rpm, voltage etc? Many thanks!.
What motor would you use to replace a slant 6
Is the keyway really strong enough to handle that much torque over an extended period of time? I've seen multiple vehicles crack the nose of the crankshaft and shear the keyway off and crack the timing belt sprocket. And that just has to turn a valvetrain, nevermind a whole vehicle, and it isn't much smaller than what I see on that motor. I think having splines machined into the shaft would be a lot more reliable.
Awesome! Thanks
good job
Very Good!!!
@BenqS42
I don't see why not.
The motor in this video is a standard industrial AC motor. This one wan't designed for a real wide range of rpms though. It keeps the original transmission to help match the speed to the motor to the speeds required to travel.
View my other videos on this electric car project for more information.
I also have an instructional video for sale at 300MPG.org that shows how to build a DC-powered car.
Does direct coupleing work? Have a 5 speed in my Saturn. Need the clutch to shift gears. 4th to hit top speeds. If I start in high gear, the motor draws too much current. Are you selecting just one gear? Does it stop on a steep hill and go again? I am exploring range, top speed, drag, & weight. To cut weight, use an aluminum fly wheel for raceing, then use all gears for best perfomance. If you don't need to shift- don't. Rolling backward with a smoking motor and no clutch is not fun.
Without a clutch how do you shift gears without grinding?
what size motor did you use for the conversion..??
Awesome !
very good explication
Hi where can I buy the right DC Motor that can run on a small car?
Thank you showing..
Yes, you COULD get better fuel economy by powering accessories from a motor instead of the engine. More and more new cars have electric power-steering, electric water pumps, etc. What you would be doing is making sort of a form of mild-hybrid. I don't know if the fuel savings is going to be worth it or not. That depends on how much you like working on cars, and what the parts would cost you, but yes, you can save fuel that way.
We aren't offering services here to do a conversion for other people. When you build your own electric car, YOU are the labor. As far as cost, I've seen dirt cheap conversions done for as little as $700 (and lots of sweat and trips to the junkyard!) up the the sky is the limit for a fancy conversion. Total budget on THIS project was somewhere around $4000.
can the coupler be heated up to expand for spline?
Hi what's the motor specs,that you showing?,thanks
I was reading in last month's edition of Land Rover Owner magazine that Land Rover have built an electric powered Defender. It's only in prototype form at the moment, but it shows that LR are thinking 'green'!
so if i wanted this done to lets say a mini copper or another small car, how much would it cost. labour and costs.
Very interesting
We need information of the type of electric motor you present in the video, then what HP produce and the type of batteries is needed.
Hi I got a ford focus which motor will need
Please I need you to answer my question it's very important to me because bench grander is the motor I can afford and I want to try it
Sorry if I missed this, but how much did this project cost you in the end?
What type of motor should be used
There are a number of places online where you can order motors. A good place to start is at the Electric Auto Association web page. They have a listing of suppliers. ElectricAutodotOrg
I put a used forklift motor in my car. You can find those at junkyards. More on my "Electro-Metro" project at 300MPGdotORG.
can I get better mileage by adding a battery and electric motor under the hood to power the steering, AC, etc.. on a pulley just as the engine did before? I would then charge said battery when parked at home and the power steering, AC, etc.. would be powered independently from the cars normal battery, thus eliminating in-travel drag on the engine from power steering, AC, Coolant pump, and any other things dragging the engine down.
@mike72meek
Couplers like that can be purchased through industrial suppliers like
McMASTER-CARR
(Do a web search for their page, UA-cam doesn't let me post links in comments)
They are available in a wide variety of sizes and materials
Just seen this video was 12 years ago. S/O to a pioneer
Jut a tout, look at having you Lovejoy connector under bore for the transmission end. Have a machine shop cut the splines into the coupler. This removes a weak leak from your concept.
Hi Larry, that is exactly what Tom did later on this project! It worked great!
Larry McDonald
How much kw is the motor you are using?
@BenjaminNelson Stores that sell nautical equipment also have these couplers - for coupling the propeller shaft.
Will it work? maybe not, i think that the clutch disk splines will slip inside the industrial coupler, to make sure, you need to drill 2 lengthwise holes in between the two pieces, tap them,and fill them with 1/4 inch bolts, a sort of 2 keyways.
edit: oops, 8 years after lol
what are the specs of the Baldor motor you are using?
No clutch plate? So does that mean it's impossible to do a conversion with a standard transmission?
Can you give me the specs off the motor? and the make and model of it, looking at doing a similar project.
Much easier than I thought. Next project after I finish restoring my 1971 Volvo P1800
you can just bolt this up to your volvo project & call it a project merger.
i have seen the volvo converted to electric in uk live on tv.
I have some comments/observations.
What was the total conversion cost?
What size/power was the electric motor used?
Use cutting fluid to extend the life of your hole cutter.
Is there a point in reducing a four seater to a two seater with no luggage space?
Have you addressed the hazard of batteries venting explosive gas into the car?
Could you fit a small diesel powered generator to extend the range/reduce the amount of batteries needed?
Convert a pickup and have all batteries in the load bay?
You could use a differential out of a Austin Mini engine and connect it to the motor output shaft using a chain.
I believe some Minis with motorbike engine conversions have been powered this way.
You wouldn't have the same disadvantage of a motorbike engine, in that it then has no reverse gear. You could just reverse the polarity and run the motor backwards.
Where do I get this engine
Very happy I seen this lol I have a 2011 Mitsubishi rvr gt I put a new motor in and it has tons of codes and I have a 2007 dodge caliber that I'm converting into a truck to haul my atv around with and I have a old cnc engine my boss gave me plus a bigger one at work I had to bring home so this will help me do the job alot better then hillbilly Jimmy rigged
what power is this engine?
How U shift the car w/d clutch ?
I just had a thought.I think it's possible to install a small generator around the wheel to utilize its rotation and use it to charge the batteries whilst the EV's on the road.What do you think?
Hi Benjamin, are you implementing regenerative braking on this project, may you please explain how one can make use of regenerative braking on ev conversion.
Yes, this project supported regenerative braking.
To have regenerative braking on your vehicle, you need a style of motor and motor controller which support that feature. There have been plenty of good conversions which did NOT use regen - such as older conversions which used DC series-wound forklift motors. In general permanent magnet DC motors and AC motors can regen. It's a great feature for a typical daily driver, as it recaptures some energy which would otherwise just be wasted in braking. It also extends the lift of brake pads!
What the RPM and wat of this electric motor?