Why the DBAL D2 is Still the Best Civilian IR Laser
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- If you're D-Ballin' on a budget, the D2 still has the best price to performance ratio of any IR laser on the civilian market. Just be ready for the downsides.
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DBAL D2 vs MAWL vs KIJI comparison video:
• DBAL D2 with Villain D... - Спорт
> T-poses
> Refuses to elaborate
Where Socko.
You gave us socko, I now demand socko.
Scheduling conflict, Socko is in a Broadway musical this week.
@@Hoplopfheil better than a terrible movie.
*gasp* I don't want to be kilt in da streets
Thumbs
*skreets
You and styropyro should get together to design an open source emitter. UA-cam lesbians unite!
They would just end up making something that could melt a hole through the moon.
How the hell was this posted four days ago when the video was posted an hour ago
@@felinor693 subscribe star
The hardest part is designing a robust electronics system that receives 3rd party attachments.
I love Ecco2k
Never thought I’d see a VHS 2 in one of Hop’s videos
Yea i thought we all converted to DVD years ago
I was lucky enough to get a used d2 for $900 it was less than a couple months old and sat in a guys safe. Love the thing. It’s just heavy af
Lucky you! :)
same
I don’t really mind it on a modern mlok rifle. It’s the height that gets annoying to me
I managed to get the newest model C1+ last December at the lower price… $2850. Worth it? Not sure as I don’t have a D2 to compare it to, all I can say is MAWL ergos are excellent on my X95 and allow for thumb activated white light and no need for any remote switches.
@@yzhou05 I just ordered a sr15 11.5 sbr so I'll have a long time to wait on a bogus stamp, but I've really been wanting to get a mawl. I might could justify the price you paid, but some folks are saying the price is going to be over 3500 on a new one.
I was issued a DBAL A3 (Edit: A2) back in the day and it's crazy how much difference there is between the military and civilian models. I never realized it until I started getting into this stuff on the civilian side.
Why is that? I've always wondered why that is the case.
@@eduardosalgado1518 There are much better people to ask but it has something to do with the power output. I was just an end user, not a SME.
@@eduardosalgado1518 The short answer is this. The Food and Drug Administration says so.
Long answer. The FDA was given the power by Congress to regulate light admitting devices to ensure the health of the US populace. Any laser device sold in the United States is only allowed to have up to a certain level of brightness. That way, some idiot teenager can't buy one and then use it to damage in innocent person's eyesight. At least that's the justification that is given.
I don't know if that prohibition on the sale only applies to complete units though. It may be the case that you can buy one of these civilian IR lasers and then buy a separate more powerful laser emitter and then do some homemade "modifications" and have a more powerful laser.
@@FinalLugiaGuardian there are also services where people will work on then to convert them to be full power lazers
@@cantsneedgaming4591where🤣
MAWL-C1+ with a Unity hot-button white light switch just forward of it is pretty amazing for thumb switch setup. The Arisaka scout mounts put the lights just under the MAWL. The MAWL illumination options and controls are great, especially not needing to dial anything.
Holy cow, the price of the MAWL-C1+ is horrendous though.
Wow current prices are over 700 more than I paid for mine.
Yeah they are pricey, TNVC was blowing them out for Black Friday at 3 grand but that's still like 700 dollars more than what I paid for my old C1+. Granted they added the ELR functionality to the C1+ in it's latest iterations but I am not really interested in a MAWL that has double and triple tap schemes anyways.
@@Argentum88 I only regularly use the momentary in short and mid modes I don't use the long mode often. I have only used the double tap for constant on function while adjusting the zero.
I can't imagine any situations where I'd want to have an emitter constantly on in an actual engagement other than possibly interior structure clearing when it can be reasonably assumed that no one in the structure has NV capabilities of any generation.
The triple tap in long range mode is a nice feature for use outdoors at long ranges. I can see it being especially with a CNVD. It's very rare that I use the long mode, but I do take advantage of the triple click settings for that mode when I do use it, as it is a mode toggle, that stays active as long as you are in long range mode. i.e. it's a per use "set and forget" toggle.
@@ftn5546 Agreed. I wish BE Meyers created a C2+ pattern MAWL to give people different cost options but I understand they were taking a loss compared to their .mil competitors getting contract money for the NGAL and the RAID.
It's still a fantastic piece of kit but it's not cost competitive to civilians.
The rollout of the KIJI has made using a MAWL for CNVD enabled rifles less sensible to me.
I will say that the long range modes of the MAWL are second to none if you're shooting in inclement weather. Having a tiny divergence set will penetrate snow and rain well to get some IR on target without a shit ton of splash back on you
@@Argentum88 MAWL is also superb for indoor, short, and mid ranges where CNVD is irrelevant. However, ATPIAL-C (PEQ-15 Class 1) can do the same job as the MAWL-C1+ and the superiority of the MAWL focus and collimation is somewhat academic at these ranges. It is the switch options of the MAWL that make it more objectively superior at short and intermediate ranges.
Sadly, we pay an extra $1,000 for the improved switch options and long range performance over the ATPIAL-C, which is still expensive in its own right.
I just wouldn't consider buying a DBAL-A3 or DBAL-D2.
Maybe the Wilcox RAID-Xe LOW POWER will become available at some point to test, but it's the same cost as a MAWL-C1+ and has a year or more lead time.
I have the cash to buy a MAWL and that new EOTech binocular set up saved but just can’t see myself ever using it. It is really cool gear but I hate having stuff just collect dust which will set me back almost the price of a brand new R1 which I can use 7 months out of the year on a constant basis. If I had a massive property OR lived in Texas where I could hog hunt whenever, I would not think twice, but here in Utah, I have to drive at least an hour out of the city to go play Metal Gear in the desert. Thanks for the video!
I go for night walks around my neighborhood in between range sessions
@@griffey11I put an IR light on my lawnmower so I can mow at 2:00am
"For the money" is a pretty important caveat there. Basically seems like you were saying in the video the MAWL is the best laser, but it's too expensive (which is fair).
I put a zbolt blazer vcsel on my ctf2 and it seems to work great. Total package was like 1k. Narrow beam is excellent, Flood is excellent, sadly the zbolt is absolutely massive but if you can work around that you're fine
I would like to see a video of your setup
zbolt released the vcsel head version?
The Zbolt head is focused LED, basically the standalone D2 illuminator on a scout head.
@@Hoplopfheil I was wrong about vscel. My bad
telescopic optics buddy, but $300! glad it's working out. You have the LED
New Hop video??? Thanks for this early Christmas present. Merry Christmas 🎄🎄
I knew all this info and still bought a MAWL. Ariska had the MAWL + there newest light, mount, surefire tail cap and mod button for 3300. Even if you only kept the MAWL and sold the rest it’s a good deal.
thank you for validating my awful purchasing decisions
Originally, I looked at these and hated the look of it but knew the performance was there. I managed to find a 50mw DBAL i2 shortly after brand new and with a warranty and it's incredible.
I got the SOMOGEAR Peq 15 ripoff that brass facts was talking about, so far its running pretty good and at 350 bucks it's not bad. Would recommend for night plinker for sure.
There shouldn’t even be a “civilian” class of laser. The government should request permission from us to buy things. How screwed are we as a country?
A decade ago it was a kind of justifiable because high-power invisible lasers weren't everywhere and an argument that untrained people shouldn't be running around with something like that sounded realistic. But now, cat is out of the bag, because anyone can easily obtain a device meant for industry, medical field, or entertainment and turn it into an invisible, silent, pretty cruel weapon crippling people permanently.
Commonality makes restrictions irrelevant.
@@sciloj I disagree. No government restriction on the possession of arms or their accessories is ever justified. The government has no business restricting the possession of anything people want to possess, as another human being has no right to tell a human being what they can and cannot possess. In fact, the opposite corollary is true. Every form of restriction on what the government can possess is entirely justified. This works because the government is beholden to us and functions at our behest. The argument that restrictions were justified at one point because of "lack of training" has been applied to everything the government seeks to restrict and it's obnoxious, worn-out, and unnecessary. Some of the worst offenders of firearms faux pau have been committed by government agents. Government agents murdered Mr. Bundy on the side of the road. Government agents murdered Duncan Lemp. Government agents murdered a man crawling in a hotel hallway. Just a few of many examples. The government and its little stormtroopers are your enemy and should always be viewed as such. Or do you enjoy them giving these lasers and billions of dollars to corrupt Ukraine while telling you, “you need training before you can use one?”
@@Ambusher1st I think you are arguing not with the real point I made but with someone else's talking point that you associated with what I said.
@@scilojWhat is your argument, then? That lasers such as these were new and “allowing” civilians to have them was bad because those civvies weren’t “trained” on how to use something that emits light? I’d bet that these lasers were in the hands of “civilians” before they were widely adopted by the government for “government use.” That’s often the defining thread in how the government accrues things, in that those things happen to float around the “civilian” population for some time before the government finally decides to buy them with your money. Cars weren’t commonplace at one point and many people weren’t trained on the use of cars, but citizens still could buy and use them without any hurdles.
@@Ambusher1st are you pro choice
Merry Christmas hop!
Keep the NVG stuff coming!!!!!
I have the d2 on a ddm4 ris II and it's definitely chonky, but it's still not too bad. I've felt builds with way less functionality that are way heavier. I'm really happy with my d2.
Lol... first 30 seconds of this video sold me on the US Night Vision model. Thanks for being upfront right off the bat!
I’ll take the Holosun LS321G for the price and quality over a DBal A2 any day. Now if I were rich it would be either the NGAL or the MAWL but seems like a lot of Steiner stuff that takes a crane plug just craps the bed way too often to justify the price
The T-posing was way funnier than it should have been
Indeed, these are all very specialized products, but it still puzzles me how people accept the price tag. Not because it "feels" expensive to me, but because it is expensive, compared to many other technologically similar or even more complex optical and lighting products. SWIR illumination optics is not fundamentally different from visible light technology.
The prices are stupid ridiculous for what they are
These things are basically about as complex as a quartz watch. Feed regulated current through laser diode with a brass heatsink and pot the internals. Not complicated, that's why the chinese can get you a functional laser designator for $120
Hey Hop just recently found your channel and loving how you give full details on equipment and firearms some I never knew about. Question can you take a look at the US Night Vision Designate IR-V? I've wanted to get a DBAL D2 but hearing that steiner though some of the best ir devices their QC isn't I was looking for an alternative and saw the Designate IR-V and I wanted to see it in action
BrassFacts did a good video about one already, check that out.
The DIR-V is a decent device with great illuminator performance (near MAWL as promised) but the mount clamp needs to be made out of metal not plastic.
My current night loadout is the HE-221G and the Surefire Vampire, both plugged into the Unity TAPS-V4
Good video, thanks Hop
Ive had mine now for about 3 years. I haven't had any issues with it. I really wish steiner would make a a3 with an led illuminator. The dbal illuminator is great but I would also buy an A3 if it had the led illuminator with a fixed small degree illuminator for closer range.
What career do you have to afford night vision?
@@musicman1eanda it’s pretty easy man I’m only 20 years old and just got into night vision debt free 👍 but I also don’t have any bills to pay as I’m still living with my parents so idk guess I’m lucky
@@musicman1eanda Mother died when I was 19, insurance money is what I used to get into NV. I would rather have my mother back. I bought two pvs 14's both for less than $2000. One has a large blemish in zone 3 and the other has small peppered blemishes. You dont need the cleanest tube to have fun shooting at night. I got my d2 from optics planet years ago, it was on sale for $1200 I think 🤔.
Merry Christmas Eve Hop
Great video!!!
I haven't heard "Kilt in tha streetz" in forever. Brought back a core memory
Merry Christmas Eve, Hop!
Thanks for not wasting my time and giving me the answer right in the title
Merry Christmas!
MAWL ninjas represent. I managed to pick mine up used from a guy who shot with it once, and it still tore a gaping hole in my budget. IMO the D2's quality issues are just unacceptable at that price point, which has kept me away from Steiner altogether. 3:35 you show the exact way I have mine set up. Momentary switch on the back of the white light and no wires or switches to clutter the rail. Very very happy with it.
merry christmas lads
I'm hoping the Raid and MAWL compete hard for a lower price. I would like to see a civ NGAL. High hopes for the eotech.
I love my dbal 2 and I agree on the weight and overall bulk ones but I’m able to over look it because of it’s capabilities. Also I have another touch pad on the side of the barrel shroud, so much easier to operate
8:40 Y'all are the reason why we are getting gutted IR lasers with experiments like that. XD
MAWL life. I have the tape switch for the white light underneath the MAWL on the right and the white light opposite side at 1030
The mawl i like because of the offset, you can set it on any rail and it won't be this bigass thing that blocks one whole side of the firearm as it sits in the headspace so you cant technically mount something under it, behind it etc etc.
I find the d2 to be the perfect setup for a SPR on top of my nf 4-16. For my CQB guns I prefer the mawl ergos
Center mounting a lam makes the gun feels 2lb lighter
The appropriate level of crass and LAM I needed during the holidays. Hope all are doing well, Merry Christmahanakwanzika!
What in the holiest of god's green earth did I just read
@@Devotchka101 🤣🤣🤣
Merry Xmass Hop
I like the Mawl the best but i didnt pay anywhere near what they sell for now.
I have a Holosun LS321G and while it works I'm not sure I wanna keep it. I kind of like the idea of just using passive optics/aiming with night vision. Thinking of selling it and replacing with a riser for the EOTech and maybe a Surefire M300 with the vampire head on it for IR.
lasers made sense when very very few people had NV, these days you're just making yourself a target, passive seems to be the way to go. Although lasers sure are cool...
I still think the ctf3 will end up being the king of the civilian market once it comes out. The kiji head on it is just amazing for civilian illuminators. The OGL may beat it out if it works as promised but eotech is known for having shitty launches and there's rumors it's going to be 2k instead of the original 1.3k
Source of rumor?
Do you know what improvements they plan on making over the ctf2?
@@TyrannicalReigner it will be a 6V/18650 system
@@roberthutchinson2856 forgive my ignorance but what does this mean for the end user?
@@TyrannicalReigner no worries. It means you would be able to run modlites at full power and would extend battery life/allow the use of rechargeables
I'm very happy with the D2. There are two irks I've found though, besides the weight of course. One is that the illuminator is not slaved or adjustable, so the laser will probably not be centered in the illum once it is zeroed. The other is that the crane port isn't great. My Unity Axon plug liked to pop out, but that was fixed by throwing a heavy duty rubber band around the unit.
Thanks. According to the internets. The mawl is the end all be all. So I bought one. Expecting it to out perform my d2. Color me unimpressed. This video backs up my findings.
It's a lot to spend for improved ergonomics and relocated bulk.
@@HoplopfheilWelp you just saved me pain and money, D2 it is.
D2 boiz, we in here
Can’t wait to see some of these comments on Hop’s IG story 🍿
The Eotech laser will probably be as disappointing as the eflx to me
L opinion
Overpriced, outdated, memey, somehow using a holographic, and an outright verified lie like their claims about magnified/unmagnified holographic sights?
What were you expecting from the eflx? It has a top load battery and provides a red dot as an aiming point.
Doesn't the PERST units have a more high power laser than any DBAL's or any American made/assembled units on the market?. Due the fact they are made domestically and don't obey the FDA laser guidelines?.
Facts.
Thank you. 👍
Hop could you make a complete budget setup video? Maybe skipping the rifle and optic since most watching will have that set
Steiner must be something where you get a good one or you get a bad one. I have been running my D2 for nearly 2 years and haven't had issues. Hog hunting, coyote hunting, and a 2 night Kinetic Consulting NVG class. No issues at all. That said, this is the second one they had to ship me. The first one, the laser was on the outside edge of the illuminator spill, with no way to adjust it to the center.
I have a feeling you'll see more civilian lasers coming in the next few years, where there's a demand there's innovators.
Hop spoilng us with these anti-clickbait titles.
I've heard people say the front bezel of the Mawl is hard to turn in extreme cold like below 25 degrees.
that got fixed it was a batch that had stacking tolerance issues.
I just got a Zenitco Perst-4 when this video was uploaded lol
I use a mawl c1+ and prefer that. Great illuminator and easiest controls.
You can buy a Perst IR laser and the secret Luna Elir-3, or even the Meprolight MRO Pro
Good points
9:22 bro hit that Zyzz Pose
I have a first gen mawl and the zero walks around so bad on it I have tape preventing the zero adjustment knobs from turning under recoil and I check my zero before each use. Especially before a hunt. I think I paid 2,500 brand new, also waited 12 weeks for it.
I only have a mawl but I've heard zero retention is an issue on most lasers
Hmm that seems like something be Meyers would fix for you. I haven't had a wandering zero issue on any of my lasers, I think that might have been more common on old thumbscrew lasers.
Wow... I just looked on TNVG, and it's over $2k all in.
Question everyone's night vision build I see today is built around a large expensive laser unit, both paying for and mounting said units don't seem very appealing. Since civilian laser output limits are a thing are there any low profile IR lasers unit powered by button cells that could be a satisfactory aiming system that don't really affect the handling of your rifle. Crimson trace had a few discontinued models of IR lasers, I remember using one briefly on someone else's rifle that impressed me. I came across something called votatu m4l-IR or a Steiner TOR mini IR
Do you think it's even better than a CTF-2? Both are around the same price and you get visible light with the CTF-2. Just curious to hear your thoughts.
@@printingwithpeek4897 Ah, gotcha. I didn’t realize that.
Honestly, every time I sit and break down steiner products, then think about their customer service, I just stop wanting anything they make.
Idk, maybe it's just me because I got used to shooting at pixels without any illuminator or laser sources, but I just like the ls321 better...
I mean, yeah, it's a bit underpowered if never dispute that but i can use what it gives well enough without the illuminator spilling into objects in the target foreground, i haven't had many photonic barrier penetration issues, and it's not gonna start losing stuff then stop working on me once it starts getting stupid cold outside because of some contact issue bullshit that nobody fixed.
Then i take a look at the D2 and I just get all..... pissy....
SOMAGEAR on a knockoff Hydra mount gang ftw
Someone needs to get them making DBAL clones because they look so much cooler than Peq-15s. And as we know, looking cool is the #1 thing
Full power peq-15 for around $3k is the best overall option in my opinion.
Perst's are better IMO
@@g.4279 older PERST-3s when you could get them around the same price for a D2, I would agree with you. Now that they're over $2K? Less appealing now.
@@g.4279 Persts die when exposed to water
Yeah until something on it breaks then youre down 3k because you have no warranty
I'm going to disagree on that one. The FP PEQ15's, more often than not, have horrible artifacts in the illuminator that make using them at distance a PIA. They were good at the time, but are behind the curve compared to newer systems. (This is coming from someone that owns both a FP PEQ15 and a MAWL).
How about a Vampire with a stand alone IR laser ?🤔 Use to love using a nearby turret crew serviced weapons laser for targeting.😯
@hop I will be curious to see if the Holosun Iris is all they claim. For the price and size, that might be the sweet spot.
TNVC has all replacement parts. Fair price i bought like 5 since it breaks easy
Have you tried the pattern generators by Grainger? If so, thoughts?
i love watching videos about stuff i'll never be able to reasonably afford in my life
Get an education that provides you with the ability to make more $$$
gonna need you to do a video on the AXEON SECOND ZERO for red dots. thanks.
I love my somogear ngal it’s tough cheep and bright
GREAT VIDEO. You helped me make a decision I 🤔 😂
How do various IIT types handle UV-A? There would be numerous plastic components in combat equipment which fluoresce in the visible spectrum, such as paper, plastics, pigments, flashlights, and other phosphor based LED sources. A heavily filtered 365 nm LED flashlight could reveal the target at distance while the beam stays out of the spectral sensitivity range of the tube.
If your opponent does NOT pick up UV on his intensifier, I wonder if this could result in a one-way revealment of targets. Supposedly, phosphide (GaAsP!) intensifiers can multiply using this spectra, but GaAs cannot. How this relates to the variety of intensifier types available remains a mystery.
I love my D2
Is the Hydra Mount Kit by GBRS applicable in this set up?
Nice
Sorry I’ll stick with the Advanced series Steiner and just rework the internals to incorporate a much brighter laser emitter.
Despite being able to focus, VCSEL tech is still better than LED IR emitters due to the beam being more coherent. Less splash back and better photonic barrier penetration. It's just plain more efficient, there's a reason why all the Next Gen IR devices the military is buying (NGAL, Wilcox RAID, etc) are all VCSEL based. That being said the MAWL has grown in price closer to those mil only options and I understand that dudes gotta roll on a budget. No free lunch in the NV game, that's for sure.
@@printingwithpeek4897 With more and more popular civilian proliferation of NVGs, it's only a matter of time before some small start up companies set up manufacturing of competitive MFALs. I personally really like the Phantom Hill CTF as I think designing a MFAL for a fixed front sight in 2022 is dumb. The CTF 3 should be a really cost effective and intriguing all in one option with the BE Meyers Kiji.
@@printingwithpeek4897 Well having the FDA regulate aiming lasers is kind of stupid to begin with...
Hey Hop
1. I am in law enforcement and want to investigate an IR laser/illuminator and was wondering if you have a favorite Mil/LE product
2. I saw you were interested in the Leupold Mark 5HD 2-10. Did you buy one or try one and if so what do you think?
i saw somewhere that the rrod is bc of shit about wavelengths and power. Like they could put in a ir device that has no visible spectrum light but tbh you’ll end up with a lower perceived output despite both having the same power. fox sight ir or something of that name sell ir torches and stuff that prob aren’t very good but they explain the differences regardless and are very cheap
purpose reflex electro optic is this an option?
Sir Hoppenheimer, don't be offended I just made it up. Which degree spill did you choose on your diffuser ? You do/give great reviews! Thanks!
I believe it's the wider one, but when I got it there was no alternative.
How would you stack the new EOTech OGL against the Steiner DBAL D2?
The D2 is a heavy girl, but it's bright. Have one on my 9" 300 blackout with an AEMS, and a REIN Micro/Rex MG7 hanging off the front. It's on that threshold where it's front heavy, but not terrible. I would not run it on a heavier/longer rifle. I've been thinking about picking up another can for it, maybe a Nomad Ti or Enticer S-Ti and run it direct thread. That would drop about 5-6 ounces off my current setup.
why doesnt the IR illuminator on the DbalA3 have the same lighting effect at these, I cant see the light past more than like 50 feet if that
Been trying to figure out an efficient way to set up my Hellion (vhs2) for night vision. Would love to know exactly how that person had the setup in the video
That setup was NOT efficient.
nice
Good but lacks cats
Steiner's warranty service got me a replacement mount for a T536 in about a month, free of charge. You tried that for the broken cap?
What mount is connecting the KIJI and Otal?
Note to self, don't skip bicep day of I go the d2 route copy that!
when 3EIR Vulcan VCSEL Illuminator review?
i think it beats out a bunch of these
holosun LE117ir and malkoff IR head is the way. 550 odd dollars new for the whole setup. Fuck a white light and if you want one so bad just get a vamp head. Put a scope cap on the light with a hole drilled in it for indoors (butlercreek size 2a is perfect for the malkoff).
Curls for the girls-and for the infrared circles(?)
Best I could do in short notice.
Good enough for government work.