THE CASE OF THE MISSING BLUE FISH!
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- What happened to the mysterious Blue Walleye of Lake Erie - a once-abundant fish with many confusing pseudo-names? Is it extinct, in hiding or in disguise? Sightings in unexpected places have been reported but could this be The Real Blue Walleye of Lake Erie or an imposter? Stay tuned past various bits of science to discover what happened ... and what MAY YET HAPPEN in the future!
NEWS
Oct 3/23 - Since posting this video I have been hearing and reading about more blue-coloured walleyes being caught in Northern Ontario; photos I've seen so far appear to be blue-coloured Yellow Walleyes with white tips on their anal and caudle fins. Some fishermen say that their fish did not have blue mucous - which is very interesting. In two cases, people mentioned that the meat was actually blue. Blue meat occurs rarely in fish and in some cases can be attributed to a bile pigment called "biliverdin". I'm not saying that "biliverdin" is the cause in the cases above; I'm just reinforcing the idea that blue meat does occur in fish (rarely) and at least one explanation has been given for this.
Dec 13/23 - Aha, I found an article that stated that the same "sandercyanin" that causes mucous to appear blue on some Yellow Walleyes can sometimes be found in the flesh of the fish - so that may account for the "blue meat" that fisherman are (rarely) reporting when catching blue-coloured walleyes in northern lakes.
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My father caught hundreds in the 40's & 50's in Lake Erie just above the Peace bridge. He said it would look like a city out there at night with all boats sporting lanterns. He used a rented wooden boat and a 1943 Johnson Seahorse 5hp that he purchased new launching from Sheridan drive. He would motor up the Canadian side as he said it had less current and dip minnows along the way. I have the motor in my basement.
Hey, Charlie - OMG, that is a precious memory and the best snapshot of the times that I have ever heard! Do you have any pics of your father doing this? Do you know (from photos or stories or otherwise) if those Blue Walleyes had blue scales, blue skin, and or blue meat? Did the blue come off when the fish were handled or laid in the snow? I don’t suppose you have one in your freezer? Just kidding but somebody DID keep a frozen Lake Erie Blue Walleye for all those years and it provided genetic and morphometric (physical) information for the researchers who worked with that fish! Thanks for your story. I really enjoyed that and so will other people who read it.
@@DrDave-Ecologic Just from my dad's stories. I don't remember any pictures and they would be in B&W if there were. I don't remember him giving specifics on the particulars of the meat, skin or scales but he did always call walleyes 'Yellow Pike' and we caught many together on trips up in Canada in the late 60's and early 70's when I was just a boy. I think 'Rice' and/or 'Gull' Lakes if I remember correctly. Unfortunately he passed in 2004.
My dad told me the same thing, that it was like a city out on the lake all along the shore south of Buffalo going toward Dunkirk.
@vincentcoppola9832 Hi, Vincent - Wow, I would have liked to have seen that. Back in the day, nobody had a cellphone camera in their pocket so images like that were seldom if ever captured. You kinda’ had to be there!
@@charliebelle6693 I last fished Rice Lake in 95-96.
When I still lived in Buffalo, my father would take me out fishing near the breakwalls in the harbor, and we actually caught what we thought was a Blue Walleye. This must have been 99' or 00' and as soon as my dad saw it, he immediately made sure it was returned to the water, despite us trying to catch dinner. I didn't understand the significance at the time, and seeing this video made me realize how important that move was. I pray for the blue pikes return.
Hi, Joe - That’s an exciting story and a great memory. What a good Dad and what a memorable lesson! I’m glad you had that experience.
My guy they were just a color morph of walleyes
Having grown up on Erie the loss of the legendary Blue haunts me as I came along as they were ending. My family always attributed the loss to extreme fishing pressure.
Hi, @coldspring624 - It certainly is a loss that something as wonderful and as abundant as the Blue Walleye population could come to an end. Fishing pressure was certainly a major part of the problem in that the fishery kept pursuing the fish even as the population declined. Yet a number of other significant things were happening in the lake at the same time. The combination was apparently too much for Blue Walleye although other species of fish got through the bottleneck of the “dead lake” 1960s and other factors of the time. We can only speculate about how much impact any factor might have had.
My father, born in 1916, would fish for blues after working his shift at Bethlehem Steel in Buffalo, NY. He said he never caught any that were much longer than 14 inches, plus he never caught any with any eggs in them. He thought that they were immature walleyes that were a color phase. At the time dad gutted all the fish he caught; he didn't learn to fillet fish till he was about 55.
Hi, @nuckledraggingneanderthal720 - That is super-interesting about your father’s experiences. It sounds like they were all young fish if there was never any sign of eggs. I wonder if he was fishing in a place where only young fish were present? I can see why he might have considered them an immature colour phase, based on his experiences.
Question from a non-scientist. In the Gulf of Mexico where I have fished before, there are Red Drum....more commonly just known as Redfish, and in some areas their fins will take on some bluish notes and the local wisdom says it occurs in Redfish who have been eating mainly shellfish like Shrimp and Crabs. Could it be that something similar denotes the difference between Blue Walleye and Yellow Walleye? Did the Blue Walleye which lived in deeper water consume more crayfish?...and as the lake became overly polluted and that pollution settled towards the depths, that their prey disappeared? I remember in the sixties the lake being declared so dead even sludge worms could not survive in the sediment. I also know that science said it would take hundreds of years to correct the polluted waters, but ongoing normal siltation of the bottom buried a lot of the heavy metals and such allowing the lake to once again become a good fishing lake. So the fish has returned, but has their prey? Of course the fish there now have prey....but is it the same prey? Cray fish are burrowers.....have they nonetheless resumed their former numbers? Go easy on me now....just a High School grad.
Hey, Greg - This is a great question and there is a solid basis for asking it. Creatures as diverse as salmon and flamingos are known to be coloured by their food. I am unaware of any food that would have done that for the Blue Walleyes … although I will look into it further now that you have mentioned it. For the moment, I’ll just say that deep-water fish (like the Blue Walleye) are often blue since it allows them to blend in better, which is an advantage for both feeding and predator avoidance. And it is the fish that used deep water that would have been most troubled by the dead zone of Lake Erie. Check back in a few days to see if I have learned anything about “blue food” in Lake Erie.
Hi again, Greg - I haven't found any solid answers to your very logical question but I have a few tidbits. Red and orange pigments are the ones that travel up food chains most often. There are blue pigments in some plants and algae but they don't seem to travel up food chains very well from the information I have found. A possible source in Lake Erie could be blue-green algae ... but then one would be looking for blue prey items that had eaten the algae and then been eaten by walleyes that had consumed a concentrated diet of these blue prey over time; I haven't found any info along those lines. Interestingly, there is a Blue Crayfish that has recently been discovered in Ohio ... but it seems to be very rare and it lives in hillside seeps rather than deep in large lakes. So the "blue pigment" hypothesis is on hold until further evidence comes to light! But the above info only applies to Lake Erie. There may be other sources of pigments in the Gulf of Mexico that would help explain bluish notes in the fins of Redfish. Maybe the local wisdom there is correct!
As an aquatic biologist and charter captain, I view many walleye and use my trained eye to observe morphological differences in walleye and I find them to be many. From those in Niagara River (both upper and lower) vs local fish vs those that have migrated from the west (Ohio), I have noted blue and gray coloration or just an absence of yellow color. I have also noticed a difference in vertical bar length, width and darkness. Finally, I have observed trends in pelagic fish vs near-shore walleye in terms of body shape with walleye suspected of coming from Ohio being fatter and occupying more deep water (pelagic) habitats vs local shallow water inhabitants being more elongate or skinnier in shape. This may be a reflection of diet availability and abundance but it could represent a slightly different genetic variation as well.
Hey, @daveadrian - This is FANTASTIC information! You have been very observant and very methodical. I’ll bet that a continuation of what you are doing would make an excellent mappable study that would interest many people. Since you are an aquatic biologist and a charter captain, I hope you’ll take advantage of your training and opportunities to carry your efforts further over the years. Maybe you’ll produce a book, pamphlet, map or video? I’ll bet it would promote interest, fishing AND conservation for people to realize the interesting differences among these fish!
Dude this video is great!!! Your narration pacing is a wonder. Gonna check out the rest asap. Much appreciated!!!
Thanks so much! A new one is in the hopper. Coming soon!
I love this channel!!! Please please please keep posting!! I will share your vids with all my friends!
Thank you so much!!! That is very encouraging. I have something coming out in a few days. Are there topics you would like to see? “Sharing in caring!”
Whoops! “Sharing IS caring!” I got excited.
Ive caught walleye of all colours. Blue, black/gold, creamy yellow, solid black, pale almost colour free and the "greenbacks" of Manitoba. Different bodies of water just seem to have their own unique patterns.
Of all the varieties of walleye I have caught the greenbacks are the ones that least resemble the common yellow walleye, their emerald green backs and metallic silver sides are far off. Also, they seem to jave slightly different body proportions than walleye found in smaller lakes.
Hi, @differentfins - That’s cool information about the different colours, and it makes sense that walleyes would adapt themselves to the different waters they live in. I’ve never seen the “greenbacks” of Manitoba but I’ll be looking out for them now. Thanks!
Yes there are lots of doff looking walleyes but the actual sub species blue walleye are extinct.
I love what you're doing Dr. Dave, much obliged for the words and energy you put into these videos. ❤
Thank you, @WEtOnGTim88 - I appreciate the feedback. I’m not getting them out very fast but I have more videos coming down the pipes!
Great video Dave!
Thanks, @Trevololol! I really appreciate the feedback.
I have been going on an annual fishing trip for many years to Dogtooth Lake in Ontario. We catch dozens of Blue Walleyes every year along with very dark Walleyes. The water is very tannin stained. Our fishing group has been told that the blue coloring is caused by a harmless bacteria. It does actually come off a little when cleaning them and stains our hands lightly. I also go on a fly-in trip to Minnis Lake in northern Ontario every few years. There are Blue Walleyes in that lake as well. Those fish have a much more pronounced blue coloring that does not come off. Those blues seem to be smaller and are always caught in deeper water.
Hey, thanks for all these details, Chuckles! There have been ideas about bacteria and about acidity in the water causing the blue colour. So far - the ideas about blue mucous being formed in response to UV light seem to be standing up best. (Look at a few of the references in the “More” section.) BUT people such as yourself keep noting cases where the blue colour does NOT come off. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the mucous scientists are wrong. It could mean that walleyes turn blue for any number of different reasons and we are only beginning to pursue those reasons. Thanks for your carefully worded observations!
Hi, everyone - My watch says there is a comment from @Train411 but I can't find it among the messages so I'll just respond here. Chris at that site reports catching several "blue walleye" in a stocked lake near Sudbury, Ontario. That surprises me but in a very pleasing way. I pass through Sudbury fairly often so I will be on the lookout for these fish.
When I was a kid early 1960s. The locals all called them pickerel. It wasn’t till the late 70s locals called them walleye. Western basin on Lake Erie
Hi, @danielrobert698 - Understood. In Ontario, Canada, I hear about 50/50 between “walleye” and “pickerel”. In this video, I thought I should be using “walleye” 100% of the time because of all the confusion between the terms “blue pike”, “blue pickerel” and “blue walleye”. It sounds like people are talking about 3 different species of fish! It is best to settle on one name, and “Blue Walleye” is most appropriate for the fish in the video.
Thanks for sharing Dr Dave
You are very welcome, Thomas!
Very interesting, Good presentation. I subscribed!
Thanks, Garrison! I really appreciate the feedback and the subscription. More videos coming soon!
What a fantastic video. Very thorough and very well made.
Thanks, Captain Fishpond! I love your UA-cam handle. That’s a great name!
Guides working the Reservoir Gouin in Quebec claim to occasionally catch a Blue Walleye but I have never seen one for myself.
Hi, Dennis - Good to know the fish are there. Thanks!
Great video! I was fishing in Canada (not on a Great Lake) this past summer and got to see a “blue” walleye that my friend caught. We took some pics and tossed it back.
Hi, Justin - It is quite the experience to see your first blue-coloured walleye, and as you say, it’s a photo-op! I’m glad you liked the video.
Thanks for the great video, I learned a lot!! Over the last few years I've been kayak fishing in smaller lakes in Ontario, Canada and really enjoy the challenge of walleye fishing. In this area older folks (like me) incorrectly call them "pickerel" while younger fishers are more likely to call them walleye. As other comments have noted the range of colors in these fish is very interesting to see, especially when fishing a variety of lakes.
Thanks for your comments and observations, @dimdarge8329 - You are right down there with the water and the fish when you are fishing from a kayak! It is so interesting about different colours of walleyes, and yes about the habit of saying “pickerel” around Ontario. The word is enshrined in so many festivals, menus and memories that it will probably always be with us as a familiar term.
@@DrDave-Ecologic We Canadians don't need to apologize for using our own variety of English. The popularization of the word 'Walleye' results from American media proliferation. Pickerel! Pickerel! Pickerel! PICKEREL!!!!!!!!! 😉😆
Hi,@@1northsparrow246 - Yes about "pickerel" being widely used in many parts of Canada but we can't exactly blame American media for the term "walleye". There are at least 6 common names for Yellow Walleye and those common names would have been used by everyone of a region ... which would have effectively differentiated among the fish they were dealing with. However, Biologists and Fisheries Managers, among other people who had to deal with wide geographical areas, would have found it terribly confusing if one species that they were dealing with (let's say Sander vitreus for example) had to be called 6 different things depending on where you were. There was a tendency to streamline to one common name per species in books, fisheries management papers, magazine articles, etc. ... to save confusion. The term "pickerel" was already widely used for other fish within the Pike family ... so "walleye" was broadly accepted as the official "go to". You can call them anything you like, and I cheerfully admit that I say "pickerel" at times, depending on who I am talking to. But in general, I'm a fan of avoiding confusion and so I try to stick to using "walleye".
@@DrDave-Ecologic As the American Chain Pickerel is not naturally occurring in our home and native land, I will continue to to use the term Pickerel without shame.😁
Hey, @@1northsparrow246 - There is no shame ever and you can call fish anything that you like! For me, though, other Biologists would kick sand in my face if I didn't watch my Ps and Qs when using names and terminology. All the best!
In 2015 I caught 1 Blue Walleye on my week long fishing trip in Canada on Lady Evelyn Lake. In 2019 the majority of my catch for the week were Blue Walleye, they were very dark Blue on their backs and Yellow/Green on their sides and no, the Blue did not come off or stain our hands when handling and had no more mucus on them than the regular Yellow Walleye we were catching. I took many photos of them.
Hey, John Laforce - Thank you so much for these details! Is it safe to assume that the two trips were at approximately at the same time of the year? Of course there could be MANY variables involved - were you fishing in the exact same spot, etc. - but stories like this make you wonder if the blue walleyes are becoming more common. Plus I really appreciate your definite answer about the LACK of blue mucous ... and you have many photos to document this. All good! We may very well find out that walleyes (and other fish) show blue coloration in a number of ways and in response to various different stimuli. We are doing some citizen science here!
@@DrDave-Ecologic Yes Dr. Dave, always go first week of August, same area of the lake. Been going every 2 years for about 15 years. We fish at a fishing resort, we don’t stray too far from the island, not much more than an hour or two away. Also, their size doesn’t seem to matter as far as color, some are 8” and some are 22”-23”….
@@johnlaforce4421 Very interesting, John. Thank you! All of these details help to fill in the picture.
I've caught blue walleye in one lake in Canada where they were more abundant than yellow.
Hi, Michael -
Is it a secret lake? And if you can’t disclose that ( I certainly understand), were your blue ones smaller than the yellow ones? Were they caught in the same spots, or were blues in one situation and yellows in another? Was there any sign of blue mucous that could be scraped off?
@@DrDave-Ecologic Quebec border at Temiscaming, The lake we were fishing is in the Zec Restigo, a conservation area. A small tannin stained lake with several side branches and small islands. Not sure of the name, but full of blue walleye, smaller than typical yellow ones caught elsewhere.
Unfortunately, a death in the family that "owned" the cabin we rented ended our trips there. Sorry I don't remember the (French) name. There was another "Watch lake" nearby that had bass (no walleye); others fished there but I stayed with walleye (and occasional unwanted pike).
@@michaelmcmillian7725 cool, Michael - Your answer contains some very valuable information, so thank you! I didn’t notice your reply for a few days because it slid in with a burst of replies but I answered as soon as I saw it. I am starting to get a picture of where these fish can be found.
Not the same. Blue phase walleye are caught around ontario and quebec.
Actual sub species blue walleye mentioned in this video are extinct
Walleye can change colors very quickly. I caught a limit,5, of dull silver colored eyes with no discernible patterns on them. The bite was hot and I limited out in less than an hour. Fish were put on a stringer and alive in the river till I left. To my surprise the fish were no longer silver but now had a very dark green color with the normal patterns that they didn't have when I left.
Interesting, Steve - Many people might not have that situation with a chance to observe the live fish later and note colour changes. Thanks for sharing that info.
Hey, Steve - I am seeing some references to walleyes being a very pale colour when kept alive in a white live well for some time, or when caught in shallow water under ice with a light bottom. Is it fair to speculate that the fish you kept alive in the stream were matching the stream’s colour scheme fairly well?
@@DrDave-Ecologic It was spring opener in lower Michigan, the last Saturday in april. The water was high, fast and muddy. All were decent size between 4-8 lbs. Tittabawassee river. It's normal here to catch all different color phases of walleye from the same spot on the same day. I figured the cause of the extreme color change was stress. I've caught thousands including a few blue ones and there doesn't seem to be a pattern as to what color they are in the Saginaw bay watershed. You get what you get.
@steveletson6616 Gotcha! Thanks for all this well-described info. Very interesting!
@@steveletson6616 Had walleye change from dark to light when I caught them and put them in a white live well. They taste the same no matter what color.
Walleye come in many different colors ranging from silver, bright yellow, golden, brown, black, blue and green. In Manitoba you find greenbacks, which are just green walleye that grow to very large size. The coloration of walleye will vary through the year depending on food and mineral composition of the water.
The blue pike was indeed a walleye.
Hey, Martin - Thanks for these colour descriptions! How about those Manitoba greenbacks as being striking-looking fish? A few people have mentioned them. Yes about “blue pike” being a misleading common name for an actual walleye. It
Great video! I used to go fishing with my Dad and uncles every summer in Ontario at Caribou Lake near Armstrong. There is more than 1 Caribou lake in Ontario. This one is located northeast of Lake Nipigon. I can remember catching blue walleye in the far northern parts of Caribou lake north of Beaver Island. We figured they were blue because of some mineral deposits in the lake in that area as we caught several yellow walleye closer to camp in the south part of the lake. That would have been in the late ‘70’s and early ‘80’s. This video popped up and I was intrigued. I had no idea that they were a sub species. It wouldn’t surprise me to find these fish still present in Caribou lake.
Hi, @elbowjoe361 - Thanks for that info and those memories! These blue-coloured walleyes have given people a lot of pleasure over the years. They get you thinking about why they are different from normal-looking Yellow Walleyes.
7:06 ...I photographed those two fish on Mar.7/07. The blue walleye was actually much darker than it appears in the photo, because of the camera flash. The color was baked in, it was not a blue slime coating.
Hi, FeldwebelWolfenstool - Thanks for that info! I picked up the photo with the blessing of a web site where it was posted. Do you have an email where I can get further details from you? I want to be accurate in describing those fish.
photo use, no problem, Sir. The fish was caught in Steepledge Lake, N. of Thunder Bay, ON. @@DrDave-Ecologic
@@FeldwebelWolfenstool Excellent! I’ll adjust the photo credit and check out the location of that lake. The story continues to unfold! I will add new info in the “More” area beneath the video.
I'll have some NEWS to place in the "More" section soon. I am swamped with some other tasks and I haven't caught up yet with the additions I intend to make.
In the late 1970's I lived in Stowe VT. There was a small town called Waterbury not far from there. I used to catch Blue's in the Waterbury reservoir all the time. I went back years later after I moved to find that the reservoir had been drained! I don't know why, but it saddened me that one of my favorite fishing spots was gone, and that it was the only place I ever caught Blue Walleyes.
That’s quite the story, Timothy. What a shame that the reservoir was drained. Maybe it had been STOCKED with those blue walleyes and who knows where the blue fry had come from? Imagine if they had been transplanted Lake Erie Blue Walleyes!!!
@@DrDave-Ecologic i fish walleyes in this area. Allegedly walleyes stocked in VT historically were from Lake Champlain stock. This has led to a current population of Walleye in the Connecticut River descending from Lake Champlain stock. I have caught many in the river and the vast majority are very yellow, and a handful of non yellow grayish blue ones
@alexgoldsmith1431 Thanks for that info, Alex! I am starting to get a good picture of walleye distribution and characteristics. Much obliged!
Dr. Dave,
I appreciate this video and want to tell you it is very informational. I have a particular interest in blue walleye so this video caught my eye. If I am understanding this correctly, there is a "blue-colored" walleye that has sandercyanin protein in the mucus, and the Lake Erie blue walleye that is blue for a different reason? After spending time looking through every comment on this video, as well as watching through this video I have some questions I hope you could answer for me. If the blue coloring in blue walleye is NOT caused by sandercyanin, what causes it? It sounds like it isn't in the mucus and isn't something that would be produced to protect against UV light, especially considering they lived in deeper water than traditional walleye, wouldn't there be less UV? The bigger eyes makes sense as to see in darker conditions, but the blue coloring does not. I don't quite understand how the blue walleye could live in a different habitat, spawn in a different habitat and different season, have different coloration (explained in the video with squirrels), have different eyes, and have a different maximum size but then be recognized as only a variant. In addition to this, I don't really understand the study done by Stepien and Haponski, how they decided that the historic blue walleye was genetically identical to a normal walleye. I am attending the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point majoring in fisheries and am only a freshman, so I am still learning this stuff. I will reach out to some professors here to see what they have to say about this as well. Another thing I found particularly interesting was the comments left by the user "jesusoftheapes". I wonder if I talk to my professors here if I could reach out to this user to get the spot they are talking about to acquire a live sample - as one of my professors has a collection permit. I'm not sure how I would go about contacting this user, and I know people like to keep their hidden spots hidden. I am very interested in blue walleye and although it sounds like a dream now I would love to spend my future restoring these unique fish to Lake Erie. Thank you for the informational video and for your time.
Hi, Elijah - I greatly appreciate your interest in this topic! It is a challenging topic with many unknowns, and because key parts of it happened long ago, it will be very difficult to find some answers. But let's try! 1. YES, it seems clear from the work that Dr. Schaefer did that the blue colour of non-Lake-Erie walleyes is due to blue mucous that is being produced by Yellow Walleyes in response to UV light (many, but not all, fishermen report seeing blue mucous on these fish ... and blue mucus has been found on other species of fish in those lakes). 2. I haven't seen any evidence that blue mucous was involved in the Lake Erie Blue Walleyes ... and it certainly wouldn't make sense for a deep-water fish in a lake full of algae to be responding to UV light ... but there are plenty of blue fish in this world; I think that the Lake Erie Blue Walleyes were truly blue based on everything I have seen so far. 3. Drs. Stepien and Haponski were able to compare preserved Blue Walleyes and Yellow Walleyes from long ago with each other and with modern Yellow Walleyes ... and they didn't find enough differences to call them anything other than different varieties. I leave this to the geneticists to decide how much difference is enough to qualify as a different species or subspecies but think about this: there are different groups of people all over the world with very different skin colour, hair colour, proportions, average height and so on; they are different "races" but not different species or subspecies. 4. YES, the comments left by "jesusoftheapes" are full of promise about possibly having found a hidden lake that was once stocked with Lake Erie Blue Walleye fry; he wants to keep the lake a secret in order to protect the fish from overharvesting but he says he will freeze samples when he catches those fish again. 5. YES, please involve your Profs. I am retired now and I no longer have my own lab. 6. Did you notice that I have several videos on this topic and that I am trying to collect info from lots of fishermen going forward? 7. FINALLY, I hope that you will pursue this topic as you develop your career; there are many questions to be answered and there is the possibility of restoring true Blue Walleyes to Lake Erie.
Used to catch them in a lake Superior tributary growing up. We called them blue pickerel, anyway. They were bluish silver. The weirdest thing was that when we caught them ice fishing, the snow where they lay would get blue. Honest truth, I know it sounds like bs, but it would look like someone spilled a little windsheild washer fluid in the snow. This was in the 90's btw, there were lots of them.
* after watching to the end, i guess they were blu colored walleye, since apparently their mucus was blue
Hi, @unwinsis - I am glad you gave those details because there seems to be some question about whether or not the blue mucous is always there. It CLEARLY was in your case, which supports the “blue mucous / UV light” idea published by several scientists (see the references below the video in the “More” section). On the other hand, some people didn’t see (or notice?) any sign of blue mucous. This makes you think that there may be several ways of being a blue-coloured walleye (or “pickerel” as a slightly confusing common name). The jury is still out on this!
In July of 1988, I caught one off the artificial reef off of Lakewood Ohio it was 16 inches long, and was clearly a blue pike. I never thought I’d ever see one, let alone catch one. It was before cell phone cameras. I never brought my expensive 35 mm camera on my boat. I only with I had brought it that time.
Hi, Mark - So true about those “photo ops that got away”. We didn’t have cell phone cameras in our pockets and SLR cameras were expensive and awkward. But you obviously remember the moment!
Fishing in Lake Nipissing in Ontario, one can find blue walleye. The colour of the blue variety is considerably darker in than the yellow walleye. There is an abundance of pike and walleye in this lake and the Pike sometimes also have different shades and colors. I theorize that walleye and pike alike choose deeper or shallower water and in the winter the fish move more between shallow and deep, however other seasons they don't move deeper or shallower much. I have this theory because in other lakes I do not typically find pike or walleye feeding near the bottom in deeper water. However in these waters I find no different colors of fish. Further to this point I believe that the darker coloured fish feed in deeper water regardless of season and do not need to venture into shallow waters to find food because the bait fish are very distributed throughout the varying depths of water. All theoretical here, but I have been keen to note that I only tend to catch dark coloured blueish walleye or darker coloured pike in deeper water where there is not an abundance of vegetation. I also theorize that if the water is deeper and contains more vegetation than the fish colour is not dark. This is based off experience and my pictures don my evidence that has built my own theories.
Hi, Jordan - These are great ideas and they form the basis of key things that people can be looking out for. If you get a bunch of people looking for key things across a wide geographical area - keeping open minds of course and being methodical in observations - we can learn a lot! Fascinating ideas!
Dr Dave, When can we expect a video about the Sauger?
Hey, @northsparrow246 - That’s a good idea! I am working on something else right now but I will start to look into sauger and see if I can come up with something interesting.
@@DrDave-Ecologic That is all I can ask.
I caught my first (and only) blue walleye last summer about 100 miles south of Erie. Just north of Pittsburgh where I live.
Hi, Jim - Aha, 100 miles south of Erie! I think that’s the first one I’ve heard about down your way. Most reports come from northern lakes. Thanks for that info and please keep me posted if you catch another one. Also - check to see if its blue colour is coming from blue mucous or from blue scales/skin.
Crazy. Here I'm from Michigan and never heard of these...👍
Hi, @70stunes71 - Well, those fish disappeared from the map long ago … yet they remain legendary in the minds of many!
Very interesting and informative… I’m curious why the blue walleye was most abundant in Lake Erie, considering that blue walleye favored deeper water, habitats and lake area is the most shallow of all the great lakes… Can anyone explain this?
Hi, Billy - Good question! It’s anyone’s guess since the Blue Walleye population was gone from Lake Erie before much study was done. My speculation is that A) Lake Erie was and is the most productive of the Great Lakes and so the food situation was best for them there, and B) although the lake is largely shallow, the basin at the east end of the lake is quite deep and must have been deep enough for them.
great content
Thanks, @privatedata665 - That motivates me to do more!
Great product
Thanks, @jtothefx!
Thank you. Family called them blue perch as yellow where larger
These treasured fish had many names in different regions, fishing clubs, and families. I mentioned a few of the many names in the video but for ease of narration, I had to settle on one name rather than repeat a list of names. It sounds like your family had direct experience with the real Lake Erie blue (many names!) fish, right? Can you verify that they were blue of scale and skin (and maybe flesh?) and not simply blue because of mucous? There are some loose ends of the blue fish story that I would like to nail down. The confusion comes from the fact that the Lake Erie blue fish were not the same as the blue fish that anglers are currently catching in smaller lakes of northern states and Canada.
Its past my bedtime, but i watched this and my brains firing on all cylinders right now.
Thanx for this info!
I remember hearing about blue walleyes, but thought it was a joke ... That they were just depressed from all the anti-anxiety meds people took that ultimately went down the toilet into the Great Lakes.
You’ve just come up with another explanation for the blue in Blue Walleye!!! I’m glad you enjoyed the video and I’m happy to hear about all those firing brain cells, @GottaWannaDance!
I use to catch them in Maumee river in 1965 blue and yellow walleye and steel head too
Thanks, @runingblackbear! I will be making a map to help keep track of these fish locations. I appreciate the info.
good sir this an excellent film! a great many thanks! may the gods be in your favour!
Thank you SO MUCH!!! I really appreciate your encouragement.
I now worry about my beloved Yellow Perch. I'm 66, and many of my "special" spots are so slow it's scary. Imagine fishing in 1800?!
Hi,@tymesho - Remember those stories about cod off the east coast being so thickly populated that they slowed the sailing ships that tried to pass through them? That would have been something to see! Meanwhile, back in the present time, fingers crossed for your perch! They are pretty resilient, though.
@@DrDave-Ecologic I DO remember about the codfish. It was incredible. As for the yellow perch, numbers have decreased for almost 15 years now. I initially thought the zebra mussel was at fault, (and it may be, partially) but the dramatic change Lake Erie experienced THEN gave me hope. Now, even inland waters such as both Higgens lakes have dramatically diminished, same with the alewives along the east coast of Michigan. I enjoyed this vid, and subbed, thank you for responding.
@tymesho You are welcome. A lot of good info is being exchanged and plenty of knowledge is accumulating in the post-video discussions.
They’ve become pretty scarce here in the central basin of Lake Erie. Fall has become so dull without them…. I fear they’re done.
@rexrexrex992 Oh no! Time to make big noise to fishery managers. A lake will give you free fish forever if you treat it, and it’s inhabitants, fairly!
I fish in Lake of the woods often in North West Ontario, We have caught quite a few blue walleye with the blue slime and also some perch that had the blue slime
Hey, Jerry - That is very interesting about the blue slime on perch. Two questions for you: 1) have you seen any other fish species such as pike that have blue slime, and 2) is the blue slime you’re seeing obvious enough that a fisherman would see it for sure or do you think some people could catch “a blue fish” and not notice the slime at all? I’m finding that only a portion of people who catch blue-coloured walleyes mention blue slime.
I have never seen blue on any pike or bass. Most blue perch are very faint and wouldn’t necessarily be noticed just a tinge in the right light. One perch and few walleye have been very blue and very noticeable. I have always thought it is just slime though and not the actual skin or scales. One thing I have never paid attention to is time of year or depth of the fish.
@jerryesau1311 OK, well thanks for this info. Very helpful. Please keep an eye on future blue fish and let me know what you are observing.
I caught a blue pike ,beautiful sky blue walleye, was 17 inches long while wading on Maumee early March 14,2004...
Beautiful sky blue! It was obviously a very memorable moment. Thanks for sharing, Richard.
Very interesting, the gulf walleye is being threatened in its range aswell. Ive got to wonder about the west coast. Is there a pacific model?
Interesting question, Bustin Bass! I’ve got to look into that at some point in the future.
20 years ago we caught some in north western ontario while fishing a small lake in the winter.damn things left blue slime on the snow.was the weirdest thing i ever seen.
Hi, 1plotthound - I’m so glad to know those details about the blue slime… on snow. A couple of scientific papers have been written about the blue slime on blue-coloured walleyes so I’m sure that it was true for the fish they were looking at. But some fishermen haven’t mentioned the blue slime, or didn’t notice it, or it wasn’t there … so it isn’t clear if ALL blue-coloured walleyes owe their colour to slime (mucous). Also, the scientific papers talked about the seasonality of blue mucous being most intense in summer, but in your case it was still pretty intense in winter as shown by the blue snow. Those details are much appreciated!
12.7 MILLION POUNDS per year, for 78 years, and there's some mystery as to what happened to the fishery? Proves yet again that we know how to eradicate a species: 1. Make it commercially viable. 2. Put no limits on it. We need to apply this knowledge to certain invasive species.
Hi, Kevin - You’ve made some interesting points here. Back in the day, fisheries management was less strict, and Blue Walleyes continued to be harvested even though the population was clearly in decline. Now fisheries management is more of a science … although sometimes politicians and the industry disregard the advice of fisheries managers. There was a strong element of that in the collapse of the east coast cod fishery. Yet there can be more than one factor affecting a decline. Why do most species or populations merely become less common under intense fishing pressure while a relative few species or populations get pushed to extinction? Other factors can tip the balance. Secondly, you made a good point about invasive species. If they were found to be delicious or super useful, there would soon be a huge pressure pushing their numbers towards rarity and maybe further.
@DrDave-Ecologic I was kinda just being flippant with the some question piece of my micro dissertation; my own fault for forgetting to add 😁's. I was absolutely serious about applying the methods we (humans) used to wipe out wolves, orange roughy (close call), American Bison (closer yet), etc. I think a pair of snakeskin boots, a cane toadskin wallet, and a pigskin jacket (or several footballs) compliment any "look". Snakeheads (the fish, not the cranium) ARE delectable, as are most of the invasives here. Trouble is that, like you said about extinctions, there are several factors involved, and ALL of them involve humans working together and maintaining a certain level of motivation over an extended period of time. Herein the conundrum doth lie, as well as the question of whose operating budget the bounty money is coming from. It's really too much to solve in a single lifetime. Back to you, DrDave, and thank you for taking me seriously. Respect.
You are very welcome, Kevin. We live is a world of different perspectives and you have to consider them all. By the way, I like the way you write! I see a budding author in you.
Blue walleye are still around I have caught about a dozen or so
Hi, @drsin6856 - Did you catch them in the Great Lakes such as Lake Erie or in smaller clear northern lakes? Did they have blue mucous that could be scraped off the fish?
We make trips to canada fishing most years, ontario/quebec border. We catch yellow colored and blue colored walleyes. More yellows than blues but the blues arent at all unusual. Ive often wondered if the blue coloration has any connection to blue pike. Its not right next to the great lakes but not really far away. On another note both of these canadian walleyes look very diff than the walleyes we catch in PA. The walleyes from home are more consistant in color and lack the distinct yellow or blue color being more of a mottled green/ gold color. The canaduan fish also are more thick and stocky built vs a slimmer build at home. Approx 600 miles apart on diff sides of the great lakes and there are very noticable diff in the same species
Hey, thanks for all these details, Wild Willie! Very interesting to have the comparisons.
In Canada you can catch Walleye with an emerald green coloring. 2:17
Hi, Kelly - I understand that Manitoba is a good place to catch emerald green walleyes. Is that what you had in mind re a source for those fish?
@@DrDave-Ecologic yes! That was it. I think the emerald coloring is due to limestone in the water.
@@kellybrian6495 Cool! That makes sense re the limestone and it provides location information for anybody interested in those fish. Thanks, Kelly!
I have caught blueish or grayish colored walleye, but there are UA-cam videos of people in Canada catching fish that turn your hands blue when you touch them
Hi, Alex - Yes, those fish that “turn your hands blue” seem to be blue because of blue mucous that they secrete as a response to uv light. I have included some scientific references about that in the “More” section below the video. But as you say, some people are catching blue fish and not noting any blue that comes off the fish. There may be something different with those fish that bears further scrutiny.
@@DrDave-Ecologic thank you! Should not have commented without watching the whole video. Very well researched!
We still catch Blue walleye. Their are still a few hybrids. Blue colored walleye. I fish in a Lake that connect to Lake Superior. Also have seen some pictures from Sault St Marie. The Blue film looks like the color of windex window cleaned.
Hey, Tom - Thanks for that info! Reactions to the video are turning up information about these fish from quite a wide geographical area!
My grandmother still calls a walleye a pickerel. And where i grew up there is a pickerel tournament witch is a walleye tournament
That’s interesting, Joe. Lots of people call walleyes “pickerel” and it is pretty engrained in fishing lore. The trouble is that there are already Chain Pickerels (Esox niger), American Pickerels (Esox americana ) and other pickerels in the Pike family. Walleyes are unrelated fish that belong to a different family so we should call them something different to avoid confusion. They have those distinctive opaque glassy eyes so “walleye” is a great name for them. I have to admit that I slip up occasionally and say “pickerel” - especially in restaurants! It is hard to change old habits.
She's Canadian 😁
@@joef6724 Ah, yes. The term “pickerel” is so commonly used in parts of Canada.
Walleye are in the perch family. Pikes and pickerels are in the family Esocidae. And are actually more closely related to salmon and trout than to perch. Perch are more closely related to darters, sunfish and bass. Many people likely call walleye this name because of the sharp teeth. And the predatory nature of the fish. I also believe that blue walleye are from many different backgrounds. Some in the north of Canada are blue from their protective sun mucous. Others to the south in the United States are blue due to pigment. The Great Lakes fish were likely a mixture of both due to the extremely clear water but also being blue would help camouflage them and allow them to hide from prey in the open. They sound like a beautiful fish like the clear turquoise sky.
I caught a blue walleye on Rainy Lake about ten years ago. I wish I had taken a picture...
Time to go fishing again … with a camera!
We catch blues on inland lakes sometimes in Minnesota
Thanks, Michael - It is interesting to see how widely these fish are distributed.
I miss catching walleye back home in the carolina mountains. Not too many of them or sauger down here in Ga.
Hi, Bee Bop - Thanks for checking in with info!
Try Lake Hartwell by dam use night crawler fish deep
@@lxcameron406 Hey, I’m super pleased to see people sharing tips!!!
We have some blue colored walleye in our lake in northern Wisconsin with the blue slime
Aha! Thanks for that info, Randy! It is hard to know whether or not the blue slime is present in all cases of blue-coloured walleyes because people don’t look, or aren’t sure, or simply didn’t mention that detail. So I am pleased to see your clear statement on that.
😢
I think overfishing and nutrient pollution played a huge part in leading to the Blue Walleye extinction in Lake Erie. If these fish were truly deep water fish and the phenotype is linked to the environment, then hypoxia zones due to dead algae could be a key factor that lead to their demise.
Your claim that the problem in Lake Erie is solved is incorrect, considering the western basin of Lake Erie was recently deemed impaired by the EPA. There is a huge lack of data that provides clarity on contributors to nutrient pollution. Bloom severity has increased yearly. A local wastewater treatment facility had also been dumping more sewage than allowed for nearly 25 years.
This problem has slowly evolved over the course of my life. We would go to Maumee Bay State Park in the summer and swim at the beach. Over the years, algae slowly became a problem again. Warning signs were posted all over the beach to avoid swimming due to toxic algae. Toledo also had a water crisis in 2014. All it takes is the right conditions for the problem to flare up again. People fail to see the deeper effects within Lake Erie. Phosphorus pollution progressively worsens HABs when ignored and leads to more dead zones.
Hi, @Plarux - We are on the same page about overfishing, nutrient pollution and hypoxia (low oxygen) zones. To this I added invasive species because invasive Rainbow Smelt and Alewives were in Lake Erie by then and there is ample evidence that they have been giving Yellow Walleye a tough time in many lakes. I also added "assimilation" because there are hybrids between Yellow Walleyes and Blue Walleyes. Recall that at one point, fishermen and scientists thought that Blue Walleye was a separate species ... and once a species is extinct, where will you get those genes from again? But with the discovery that the Blue Walleye was just a different-coloured variety of the Yellow Walleye species, and since hybrids have been seen, this opens up new possibilities. Note that I said I was speculating wildly and I even "put on my thinking hat" to visually mark that portion of the video. Also note that I didn't say that the problem in Lake Erie is solved. I said the pollution is much improved over what it was in the 1960s ... which is a pretty safe statement considering the lake was being called a dead lake in the 1960s. Sewage plants have been contributing to the problem and so have many sources, especially agriculture in the surrounding area. I agree that the lake has a way to go and that is what I am warning about in this video and in another video called "The Mystery of the Lake Erie Dead Zone". I am trying to share information about the lake without being too deadly dull ... and hence the attempt to provide some entertainment through costume changes and background changes. Check out my Dead Zone video to see more about this topic.
Blue and yellow walleye are the exact same fish. It's habitat changes and food availability. Something in the deeper parts of the water column changed, and those walleye that hunted deeper water no longer do so.
The very close relative of the walleye is that of the lake perch. White perch usually live in the great lakes 25ft and deeper they also go into the smaller lakes to spawn in the fall while yellow perch live in shallow water up to 25ft and stay in lakes attached to the great lakes. This is also the reason yellow perch are found in inland lakes. The eggs in shallow water, less than 25ft are carried to other body's of water. Hope this makes sense
Hey, Big Wrench - What you said makes a lot of sense and it fits nicely with the video. Thanks for adding those extra details!
But note that the video elaborates on the Blue Walleyes and Yellow Walleyes being the exact same species (different colour varieties) … and talks about the changes and pressures in Lake Erie at the time that Blue Walleyes were declining and disappearing. Those blue-coloured walleyes in lakes around Canada and some northern states are a different story. They are Yellow Walleyes (possibly missing yellow colouration) and their blue colour seems to be tied to blue mucous that they produce in defence against UV light in these relatively clear northern lakes. I have placed some references about this in the “More” area beneath the video.
That’s the theory … but as you can see by scanning the comments in this section, lots of questions and loose ends remain to be sorted out!
Because it seems to live in deeper water and have adaptations for deeper water and because hybrids do not appear to be stable in themselves, I would lead to allopathic speciation and thus two species. The example of the fox and squirrels may not be relevant depending on whether or not they are normally allopathic to each other.
Hi, Douglas - I think that given time, the Blue Walleye and the Yellow Walleye would have become separate species, for the reasons you mentioned. They were on their way in terms of size, colour, depth preference, position of the eyes, etc., but a) the genetic study shows they were still very closely related and b) they were able to cross breed and produce hybrids (I wonder how fertile the cross breeds were/are?). The foxes and squirrels were just to get the idea of phases/morphs/varieties across, hopefully using familiar examples. Not a perfect parallel but it was in my “wildly speculating” section so I was granting myself some license!
Would you be interested in doing a piece on salamanders and newts in the Great Lakes area ? I have lots of captive individuals and many pictures and some information on reasearch gate
Yes, Cam - That would be a great topic and I think lots of people would be interested! For a UA-cam, it would be handy to have lots of pics and video snips … in order to be as visual as possible. We can talk about this in more detail in the days ahead at DrDaveHackett@gmail.com but note that I might not follow up immediately because: a) I have a 10-hour session to do with university students, starting shortly, and b) as soon as that is done, I should focus on the final steps to launch the next UA-cam video (which is fairly close to being done). But I am a salamander fan and I am excited about working with you on this topic.
The extinction happened before the zebra mussel introduction, but Lake Erie has changed dramatically since the 80s because of that pest. It used to be brown until the zebra mussel took over and began filtering the water on a massive scale. Now it looks like clear blue. Maybe Lake Erie was bluer in the past before the brown era, when pollution was the worst. The zebra mussel hasn’t really helped anything but the clarity of the lake, though.
Hi, @winesap2 - Yes, Zebra Mussels have made s big difference to Lake Erie ... as have the Quagga Mussels that can live deeper into the lake. Their filtering of the water has improved water clarity, which sounds like a good thing but A) they have removed a lot of phytoplankton which affects the productivity of the lake resulting in fewer fish, and B) they have encrusted places where fish would have spawned. Some fish do feed on the mussels but not enough to control their numbers.
@@DrDave-EcologicYep, exactly!
We've been catching silver blue smallmouth on a lake in the 1000 island region in the past few years, maybe it has something to do with the crayfish
Interesting, Eric! I’ll try to look into that idea. But next time you catch one, give a real solid attempt to scrutinize the fish for any sign of blue mucous. That would eliminate one possible thought,
Where does the sauger fit into this discussion? Is a cross between the blue and the yellow a "green"? ( or maybe "greenback") I think the shortage or lack or absence of blues is due to more than one of those factors mentioned. Looks like over-harvest could have made their numbers vulnerable and then one or more of the other "events" may have finished them off.
Hi, TheEzzieboy - Going through your points in reverse order, I too think that multi factors were likely involved in their demise. Certainly, those factors mentioned in the video were ongoing at that time … and there is no way to “prove” what happened in the past. But it makes sense to me that having their numbers pushed low made the Blue Walleyes vulnerable to factors that other fish were able to survive. You’d swear that the combo of yellow + blue should = green, but I think the hybrids are more of a gray colour. I haven’t looked at Sauger yet but I could look into that topic and make a future video about what I find.
the ph gives reptiles different colors could it be the added salt from using road salt
Hi, Realtruth - I’m sure there are lots of possibilities. Taking reptiles for example, some of them might change colour in response to background, temperature, stress, mating status, etc. So who is to say that blue colour in walleyes that are sprinkled around the northern states and Canada can only have one cause? A group of scientists have made a very solid case for blue mucous that happens in response to UV light … but that might only apply to the fish they looked at. Meanwhile there are other ideas about acidity, bacteria, environmental circumstances, etc. We may find that walleyes react to several completely different stimuli by “turning blue”.
We have either grey/silver walleye in Oneida lake, NY. I don’t think they are blue but they are not yellow. We do have yellow walleye also
Cool, @sektorify! I wonder if the fishery officials overseeing that lake have any idea about whether the grey/silver walleyes are hybrids, or just a different colour morph, or just a response of some walleyes to their local environment? Somebody down there might have some answers about those specific fish.
@@DrDave-Ecologic This is all new information to me so I’m not sure. I’ve just noticed the two color variations while fishing. I will have to look into it. I would be surprised if Cornell researchers weren’t closely studying the genetics of the local walleye populations
@@sektorify Hi, @sektorify - I know of a few studies but I’ll have to see if there is anything new.
I still dont understand how recessive genes are able to proliferate in the first place, if they are so easily able to be bred out of a population. How did red hair in humans spread, if shortly after the mutation, most of the population did not have the gene. I dont see how it may have contributed to survival unless redheads were seeking each other out. Why after so many thousand years has the recessive gene not already been bred out?
Hi, @jeil5676 - That is a GREAT question. This will be hard to explain without using diagrams, but let's give it a try. FIRST THOUGHT: Let's establish that it was probably a significant advantage to have red hair and its accompanying fair skin which allowed Vikings to make enough vitamin D to survive long hard winters when only their faces would be exposed to weak and brief sunlight. That trait would have accumulated in the population though its survival value ... right? SECOND THOUGHT: Let me switch to an eye colour example and give you a simple version of that story. There are technical terms that I will avoid using but imagine that a capital "B" version of a gene for eye colour is part of coding for brown eyes while a recessive small "b" version of a gene is part of coding for blue eyes. Each offspring receives one of those two versions from each parent. A person who receives "BB" is going to have brown eyes. A person who receives "Bb" is a still going to have brown eyes because the "b" is recessive to "B" and so the blue-eyed trait is covered up . However, if a brown-eyed person (with Bb) mates with another brown-eyed person who has the Bb condition, there is a 1 in 4 chance of an offspring receiving the bb combination. Look up "Punnett Squares" to see a diagram of how this works. THIRD THOUGHT: So aha! Those little "b" versions of the gene are still there, and have a chance of producing a blue-eyed offspring. Now imagine there is a survival or mating-choice advantage in being a blue-eyed person (or a red-haired Viking/Scot, or a blue deep-water fish) - sooner or later, if the advantage is strong, you would predict matings between blue-eyed females (bb) and blue-eyed males (bb) resulting in 100% blue-eyed offspring! FOURTH THOUGHT: That 100% blue-colour combination in walleyes (imagine that it is coded in a similar way to eye colour) is likely how things were when the deep-water Blue Walleyes were operating as a separate gene pool from the shallow-water Yellow Walleyes. Things broke down with the combination of factors mentioned in the video. Deep-water walleyes got the worst of those changes and survivors joined the Yellow Walleye gene pool. Their traits are covered, but still there, and we know there are hybrids. We just need healthy deep-water habitats and time for those advantageous blue traits to be expressed again. (IN THEORY ... TIME WILL TELL!)
I have caught "Blue Walleye" in the upper French River, Ontario. 2-3 different times. Don't believe they're extinct!
Hey, Halaine - Exciting! How big were they, how blue were they, and did you notice blue slime on the fish? Do you have a photo you could share with me?
Joe here, First caught a "Blue" in July 2015, have caught a couple others since then. No gold color typical of Ontario Walleye. Don't remember slime being different from other fish. Most I believe were about 15" in length. I'll try to send picture as soon as I figure out how! Sorry@@DrDave-Ecologic
@DrDave-Ecologic catch them in the st clair river they are just treated as walleye
@@halainevatter5323Hey, Joe - Thanks for this info. The story continues to unfold!
@@johnmarkel8160Hi, John - Are you saying Blue Walleyes in the St. Clair River? How blue? Blue slime? White on the pelvic and anal fins? Pics? There is lots to learn from the fishing public!
I fish a tributary of Erie and sometimes I catch regular looking golden walleye but with blue markings around gill plates, mouth and below the first fin...sometimes you can see a tinge of blue in the top part of the rear and dorsal fin
Interesting! That is different from most descriptions that may suggest that the fish is blue all over, or more commonly,
especially blue on the dorsal parts of the fish. Good eye and good description!
Also - interesting that you are describing a walleye from a tributary of Lake Erie … as opposed to a walleye from a smaller more northern lake. Any blue mucous on these walleyes?
@@DrDave-Ecologic I cant recall if I saw blue mucous (didn't know that was a thing) but the blue spots where usually in the same areas I described....the main reason I noticed is I would usually catch them around 10pm at night and take pictures of them with flash, then started noticing the blue spotting - especially when you enhance the contrast and saturation it becomes very clear
@MMK86 - Cool! I hadn’t heard of anything described like that. Don’t worry if you can’t recall about the mucous. It can be pretty subtle… but it might be something to look for in the future. A couple of items in my reference articles below the video give more info about the mucous. It’s not that I’m a “mucous fan” or anything like that! I’m just interested in how (and why?) the fish are achieving their blue colouration.
Theres blue perch in northern Michigan. I've caught them. It has to be something in their diet. When I fileted the perch they had something blue in their stomachs. The ecology of the great lakes has changed a lot since the 1960's. My guess is what ever is turning the perch blue also turned the walleye blue. I think it is something in their diets. The lake I caught the blue perch out of didn't have any largemouth bass or sunfish. There is also a lake in North Dakota with blue perch also.
Hi, @wantsome - Thanks for that info. I have heard a few other references to blue perch and blue pike in the same north lakes with blue walleyes. I’m on the road at the moment but look back in a few days and I should have more info about that. I’ll put it near your comment or in the “More” section under the video.
I read up on this when wanting to go Sauger fishing.
Hi, Don - How was your Sauger fishing and did the information you researched help out?
Never gone yet! I am going after pike tomorrow up near Ludington, Mi. Would like to hit Saugers some day, perhaps in the midwest rivers. If you know anywhere I can go in SW Michigan or around Chicago, let me know. Thanks@@DrDave-Ecologic
@dontransue9843 Good luck pike fishing, Don! Can somebody guide Don to a great Sauger spot in SW Michigan?
@dontransue9843 Or around Chicago!
Ive meet old fishermen in the 80s on the breakwall in Buffalo by the peace bridge. They told me about this fish and how abundant it was. It was served in restaurants.
It some point in the 60s there was a huge fish die off. They said the lake was dead. From what i gather the fish die off had something to do with the blue pike disappearance.
Hi, John - Yes, what you are saying fits nicely with the video and adds some first-hand experience from the old fisherman on the break wall. Apparently the fish was very popular in restaurants - partly because it was a better size to fit in a plate! Yes, the lake was called “dead” in the 60s and lots of fish species had a tough time with it. The Blue Walleyes didn’t make it through those tough times. See the video for the reason I am calling them “Blue Walleyes” rather than “Blue Pike”.
Niagra River
heres my guess being a local who fishes walleye in these waterways. walleye over time due to industrialization lost habitat mainly spawning habitat in the detroit river, not as many natural spawning offsprings, most fish in the water are stocked from the dnr. so if they handselect egs that pigmentation goes away.
That's a good opening guess but watch the video carefully and see what I was able to find out by thoroughly sleuthing through this topic.
I watched the video really interesting stuff. i watched the dead zone in Erie also i really liked that also. I dont know how many locals watch this but i did and it was cool. i could go for a few more great lakes videos.
@@DrDave-Ecologic
@jimmy66651 OK, Jimmy! I’ll see what I can do. Thanks for the feedback, the encouragement, and the great suggestions for future videos!
Very interesting! Walleyes are an awesome fish. Isn't it a contradiction that the blue walleye is a color phase or morph but history shows hybrid fish that were larger? 2 color phases can be in the same litter. That's definitely not a hybrid. I think that shows the blue walleye was a sub species at the very least. Unless the experts have discounted the accounts of hybrids.
Hi, @emerycreek8016 - When I showed the foxes and the squirrels, it was just to counter the idea that Blue Walleyes must be a different species because they are a different colour . Colour morphs or phases does not imply separate species; in fact, those foxes and squirrels can come from the same litter. But the walleye situation is a bit more distant since the fish were in different populations … with the Blue Walleyes preferring deeper water. Still, a very extensive study established that the two fish were not different species or subspecies … they were different “varieties”. Are you a gardener? Are you aware that when different varieties of corn, for instance, are crossbred … the resulting hybrid corn is extra large? The extra size is characteristic of hybrids. You don’t need to crossbreed sub species to get the effect. I don’t think that anybody is discounting the hybrids.
P.S. Look at some of the info in the “More” section beneath the video to learn about the studies I mentioned.
@@DrDave-Ecologic Thanks for helping me understand that! I do know about hybrid corn and when you have crossbred cattle you typically get healthy calves with that "hybrid vigor". And both parents are in the same species but are very distinct from each other. So I can see how you could get a hybrid walleye in this case even though the blue and yellow walleye are the same subspecies but have distinct differences. I hope some are still hanging on, it's a beauty of a fish. I've always been interested in walleye and sauger so this really caught my eye. Thank you!
@@emerycreek8016 Hey, @emerycreek8026! I want to thank you for taking the time to send me this response. As a Prof of more than 35 years experience, I can tell you that there is nothing more rewarding to a Prof than learning that somebody gets it! Knowledge is important; it grows constantly and is meant to be shared. I’m so pleased to have been able to share that nugget of information with you successfully!
I caught a completely navy blue walleye in a small lake in Northern ontario
Hi, Christopher - Navy blue … nice! Can you remember what month it was, how big the fish was, and whether it not it seemed to have blue mucous on it?
@DrDave-Ecologic I caught it in July on a lake that connects to the French river system that flows into the georgian bay on lake Huron. The fish was only about 10 inches and I didn't handle it long enough to see if the slime was blue. I caught it on a jig and minnow bait and wanted a pic with the lure in its mouth but it flopped off my hook and back into the lake. The lake I was fishing is known to have blue walleye in it
Thanks, Christopher - This is all good info. The “blue mucous” researchers say that the most intense blue colour should be seen when the fish are defending themselves from the most intense UV light. That could certainly be July, couldn’t it be? I’ll double check that with whoever is measuring UV light levels. Much appreciated!
Hey, a quick check of weather records shows me that July IS the month with the highest UV levels. Very interesting, although we’ll have to see what other fishermen and scientists are finding with their intensely blue fish.
Well now I am curious as to if walleyes where local to the Great Lakes. I heard most of the salmon steel head etc where brought to the lakes as sport fish Time to fire up the Google machine. I fish the Niagara lower almost daily I now have a new goal to catch a. Blue
Ha, ha! It’s nice to have new goals! Walleyes were always native to the Great Lakes and the fishing records go back quite far. They’ve also been introduced into many lakes where they didn’t previously occur.
They are not extinct either . I know a lake in Norther Wisconsin where you will catch 2 Blue Walleye to every 1 Yellow . They look much more like Sauger than Walleye so I have 0 idea how they can be considered the same species . They have a different ribcage and the fin on the top of the back it a bit different and the eye is back farther on the head. They have to be a variant of Sauger however . This lake is very small and very little fishing happens on this norther Wi Lake . It gets no spearing either so there is little chance of them being overfished in the lake they habituate. We found them there about 22 years ago on an ice fishing adventure where we hit a bunch of low access lakes in Barnes area .
I caught them as recently as February in 2023 . There is no way to get a boat into this lake which is 150 feet deep yet has a total size of less than a Wal-Mart store in its footprint. There is a 0% chance these fish are the same as yellow walleye . This is a completely different species and you can tell when you catch them . Even the more yellow colored Walleyes in this lake seem to be a yellow variant of the Blue type that lives there. We caught Yellow Walleyes from Middle Eau Claire Lake the same day as we moved over to our secret lake with these Blue Walleyes . We cleaned both types. They are very different to one another side by side . I tried to talk to a DNR officer about them in 2017 and they called us all crazy. They do run smaller like a big perch or normal sized Sauger . However they have a more rounded top spiney fin than a Sauger and it stands higher than a Walleye . So I do not believe this species is the same as a Walleye at all . If someone is wanting to see one of these fish the ice will be thick enough soon to fish that water once again. It was rumored to be a lake that was an experimental stocking project lake back in the 1970s but was forgotten when the surrounding clear cut land grew back into standing forest in the Nation Forest region of Barnes. I would be more than willing to catch a batch for you and show you the fish if you want to see one alive . This lake has so many of this type of fish in it that it is one of the funnest places to jig through the ice for Walleye in the state and I am pretty sure there have only been 2 people who have fished it at all in the past decade or even 2 decades other than my father who died about 8 years ago and a few of his old timer friends who have also since died who were the people who found the lake originally . That being me and my brother . We live near that lake and have never seen anyone there or seen any sign that other people fish there. Never seen another hole drilled on the ice and in the Winter I fish there 20 times a winter . I started putting a shack on the lake in 2017 permanently and fish there about 20 times a winter. We keep few fish each winter but always take one batch per season as we think these Walleye to be the best tasting of any Pike species we have ever eaten . there are also Norther Pike in the lake ,Blue Gill, White and Black Crappie and some Bullheads. It seems to have a breeding population of Cisco and they get big on the lake but the lake has no above ground streams running into the lake and I have 0 idea how the lake sustains itself with baitfish as the amount of really quality game fish is high. We have caught Blue Gills over 1 lb on this lake several times over the past 20 years. All other species of fish look no different than the same fish from other lakes in the region so it is not like that lake produces a Blue tint to its fish . These are their own species and you are the first person to every tell me there was a Blue Walleye that was a real species and I finally have an explanation for the species we found. Now I have to know what they are doing in this little lake in the middle of nowhere WI . If they came from Lake Erie how in the heck did they get to Barnes? We were told stories from a friend of my fathers who grew up fishing the unknown lakes of Washburn, Bayfield and Burnett Counties and he knew a lot about the lakes no one else fishes. There are so many lakes up there that never get fished and this is one of the true fishing gems . I would love to know where to send one to see if these are the species you are speaking of. They sure sound like it. I wish you had some actual photos of them instead of DNR artwork pictures . I guess that is the way a extinct fish would be given photos of fish that do not get big do not make many collections . I have photos someplace of some of the Bluest Walleyes we have caught there. When you say blue it is not a joke. These things are not slightly blue they look like ocean fish colors they are so blue.
Hi! I think you made this comment BEFORE you saw the video. Take a good look at the video and you will see that there are several blue versions of walleye under discussion: the historically famous Blue Walleye of Lake Erie and the current blue-coloured Yellow Walleyes mainly in the northern states and Canada. These latter fish may owe their blue colour to blue mucous that they secrete to defend themselves from UV light … according to several scientific studies. What I find exciting about your descriptions is that you may have found one of the lakes where the fry of Lake Erie were stocked for safekeeping. Mention this to your local fisheries conservation people and not to too many fishermen until this is checked out! A second possibility is that they are Saugers that are secreting blue mucous. This has been found for walleyes and perch in northern lakes so why not Saugers? Let me know what you find out.
Hey, @jesusoftheapes - I just found Part 2 of your comments and WOW what a wealth of information! How Lake Erie Blue Walleye would have got to your secret lake is that fisheries conservation officers raised some Blue Walleye fry back in the early 1960s and moved them to other lakes ... rather than put them into Lake Erie which was being called a "dead lake". The fact that your secret lake is SO DEEP would have made it perfect for those fish. I would like to see some photos of those fish but what I would REALLY like is for you to send a sample to Drs. Haponski & Stepien who did the genetic work on actual Lake Erie Blue Walleyes. I will try to get a current address for you. If you get any more fish like that, just put a few in your freezer. One of the original Blue Walleyes was in a freezer for 35 years before Haponski and Stepien analyzed it and it worked out just fine! Stay in touch now and again through this site.
There is an up ground reservoir in Willard Ohio roughly 40 minutes south of Lake Erie…I have personally caught several Blue Walleye…
Wow! In a reservoir? I am learning as we go. Thank you, @overwatch3950! Can you recall any further details such as how big compared to Yellow Walleyes from the same place, how blue and what time of the year, and any evidence of blue mucous that could be scraped off? If you don’t recall all that, don’t worry. I am just curious!
@@DrDave-Ecologic From what I’ve been told… Willard was stocked with Lake Erie Yellow Walleye starting in the late 60’s…The blue in the fish from that impoundment even have the blue iridescent color on the backside of the skin when separated from the fillet…
@@overwatch3950 Hi, Overwatch - Thank you for this info. I am learning new things about these fish every day!
How does the fish compare to the Sauger.
Hey, Bruce - Look near the bottom of the comments list. You will see a question about sauger and I gave a pretty elaborate answer there that will tell you what you want to know. All best!
Very nice summation and analysis! You did a nice job avoiding laying blame on any particular group or the catch-all "Climate Change" answer! The loss of the Blue Pike is a fairly modern ecological tragedy that doesn't get alot of coverage outside the region. Thanks for sharing!
Hi, @FishingHistoricPlaces - Thank you so much for your feedback! I find that topic so interesting and although it is a tragic story in many ways, we still have some blue-coloured walleyes to pursue and we have at least a wisp of a hope that true Blue Walleyes MIGHT be returned to Lake Erie through various long-shot possibilities. (We need hope in our lives!) We are certainly having some good discussions and I would love to hear from anyone who had anything to do with the true Lake Erie Blue Walleyes before that population declined in the late 50s /early 60s.
Blue walley are the same as every other walley. They seem blue because of stained water.
Hi, David - Take a close look at the details of the video. There have been several scientific studies about the mucous of blue-coloured walleyes found in northern lakes. You can read more about those studies in the reference material below the video.
I wonder if species genetically that close to one another could breed without the offspring being hybrids. If they were just varieties of the same species, then they could interbreed and the offspring not be hybrids, but they may not have carried the blue genes. I think this is true in other species. For instance there’s a dark and red variety of the hog nose snake. They look completely different but are the same species. I believe that’s true of yellow and black panthers.
Hi, Big Rich - A lot of people are familiar with “varieties” because of their gardening experiences. For example, if 2 varieties of corn are cross bred, you get a hybrid corn with extra size and vigour. Another example: the popular corn called “Peaches and Cream” - the one with two different colours of kernels - is a hybrid from 2 different varieties of corn (same species and subspecies). If a Yellow Walleye bred with a Blue Walleye, then for sure the genes would be there in the offspring because the offspring gets half its chromosomes from each parent. A given trait might be covered up by a dominant trait, but the genes are still there and the hidden trait may be expressed again when when parents bearing those genes mate.
I catch lots of blue walleye... I thought it was just something they were eating in the lakes I fish...
Can you say where those lakes are, even approximately, just to “add to the map”?
@@DrDave-Ecologic the closest information I can give to the location is North of Lake Superior west of Lake Nipigon. i know that leaves a large area, but I've watched lakes become garbage pits just by the mention of a name.
Hi, @silasostap5236 - Absolutely. Totally understood. Yet your description adds a bit of blue to the mental map of where these fish occur. Much obliged.
So, if I am understanding correctly, we can (even maybe should!) have some hope for an eventual re-emergence of the missing Blue Walleye, given that the Blue Walleye genes are still out there in the Yellow Walleye gene pool, and given that they were (or are!) a deep water fish, and deep water habitats are recovering ... right?
That’s the hope! There is a possibility of that happening, given time and chance. It may be a slight hope but I find the thought encouraging after all the articles I read that were lamenting the extinction “of that species”. Of course, now we know that it was a “variety” that went missing - not a whole species - so the re-emergence of those traits and a similar deep water population are possible. Also - fish populations have been shown to change their attributes quickly compared to birds and mammals. Lots of eggs = lots of chances! Keep fingers and toes crossed and be patient while the story of Lake Erie Blue Walleyes continues to evolve! Actually, I will be doing an update video soon with some new info!
@@DrDave-Ecologic I will be watching for your update!
Hi, S! You have visited a number of my UA-cam videos today and left me with stimulating feedback and great motivation. Thank you! I really appreciate your interest and your valuable input.
Wait.. why are grey squirrels black in some places? The way you made it sound is "the city is all blacktop and their main predator there is cars" It makes sense though with the blue walleyes, Erie is the most oxygen rich lake so they don't have boundaries.
Hi, CJM - I had to be brief in the video but black is a melanistic phase of Grey Squirrel. They are seen much less often “in the wild”, probably because they are so obvious against grey tree bark and get picked off by their predators (such as owls). You will see the black phase much more often in city back yards and in city parks, etc. The reason is that they probably face less predation pressure than in the wild and so they survive. BUT a study was also done that showed fewer black squirrels were killed by traffic in cities … apparently because drivers saw them better and did a better job of not hitting them.
P.S. If you had to compare city-squirrel deaths by dogs or cats or cars, which do you think would win?
@@DrDave-Ecologic okay thanks, I get it now. I've got all black squirrels just a city south of me (wherever the fox squirrel isn't really) they are incredible but I understand that the people of southern states are amazed by how massive ours are. I wanna say cars kill the most but that's only because I see their bodies. Bobcats in the wild probably feast on them 24/7 but they're the one animal I don't see being comfortable venturing into the chosen land of melanistic squirrels.
Hey, CJM - I didn’t see your recent comment arrive but I found it tonight and I really like it. I can just picture those Bobcats in action. Around here, I am in Lynx, Marten and Owl habitat … so different actors, but similar impact on the squirrels.
Is this a sauger?
Hi, @HalfRoastedDuck - Great name! Sauger (Sander canadensis) is closely related to Yellow Walleye (Sauger vitreus) and looks quite similar but is a different species. Yellow Walleyes are larger, have a dark blotch at the base of the spiny dorsal fin, have a significant whitish blotch at the tip of the caudal fin; Sauger are smaller (this varies regionally so check on the typical sizes for your area), lack the two fin blotches mentioned above, but have dark blotches on their sides. Maybe you already know all of the above and you are only asking about the Blue Walleye? The Blue Walleye of the Great Lakes was certainly a blue variety of the Yellow Walleye (we have genetic and morphological evidence of this) ... but it was slightly smaller than Yellow Walleye. The Blue Walleye sketches that are in my UA-cam are historical sketches but you can see that they show no dark blotches on the sides of the fish and it looks like the artist is showing a dark blotch at the base of the dorsal fin. Most of us have never seen a real live Blue Walleye from the Great Lakes! (The blue-coloured Yellow Walleyes from clear northern lakes are a whole other "kettle o' fish" ... so they are larger than Sauger and have all the other signs of Yellow Walleyes plus blue-coloured mucous ... although we are hearing of a few such fish that are apparently blue without blue mucous. The story continues to unfold!)
@@DrDave-Ecologic very cool, thanks for the info!
New York State banned the possession of sauger, the population has been reduced across the state in the lakes that had them.
Could the infestation of invasive species play a part in their demise? Tilapia and Mayan Cichlid have wiped out most freshwater fish here in S.W.Florida.
Hi, Henry - Yes, Rainbow Smelt and Alewives had invaded the Great Lakes and were building up in numbers at about that time. They are known to eat walleye fry so they would have exerted significant negative pressure on the walleyes. Blue Walleyes were less numerous than Yellow Walleyes in the late 50s / early sixties so that extra pressure would have been more detrimental to the Blue Walleyes. But other factors are mentioned in the video that also contributed to the demise of the Blue Walleye population.
Those aren’t living up here in these water temps.
Around here asian carp have displaced many native fish, between them and the apple snails almost all submergent vegetation has disappeared as well
Hi, Kenneth - Yikes! What region are you describing? When did Asian Carp arrive there?
@@DrDave-Ecologic the southern Mississippi river region, they've been here a good many years. I believe that they escaped from catfish farms that were inundated, they were used to control algae
People still catch them. Just not as abundant.
Hi, 123pietasty - Take a good look at the details of the video. There is much more to the story than just being blue and a walleye. There are a number of potentially confusing factors at play when differentiating between the Lake Erie Blue Walleye (officially labelled as “extinct”) and other blue-coloured walleyes now being caught in various northern lakes and rivers.
@@DrDave-Ecologic Didn't even watch it.
Pollution and over fishing
Hi, Shawn - Yes, those are two big factors that nobody would doubt were involved. The other items that I mentioned in the video also have rationale, though. I suspect that a combination of all those factors were too much for Lake Erie Blue Walleyes … whereas Yellow Walleyes faced the same pollution and the same fishermen, and they are still with us.
@@DrDave-Ecologic My buddies father a baby boomer .Talked about blue pike they were gone by the 70's out of the upper Niagara River. He caught Blues when he was a kid in the 50's.You have to remember back then River's starting on fire LOVE CANAL .
Hey, @@shawnsanders2182 - Thanks for this info. I haven't heard much about the Niagara River until your comment, but the Blues were there and were likely less affected by commercial pressure. YES, rivers were on fire and the Love Canal Environmental Disaster was happening - those were quite the times!!!
@@DrDave-Ecologic OUR water ways are 3 times cleaner today and lake Erie walleye population is incredible.
@@shawnsanders2182 It’s all relative, isn’t it? Yes, the world has its environmental problems but there have been victories along the way and we can solve our modern problems if we buckle down and get at it!
Let's talk Saugers!!!
Hi, Don - There are a couple of guys in the comments section who want to know about saugers. Is that who you were trying to talk saugers with? Just jot down some of your knowledge and get a discussion going. There will be other people here who will likely want to participate.
Will do, this channel is fantastic. I was just reminded of Saugers with this video But I would love to discuss theSander canadensis with anyone. The Illinois River is a hot spot for these critters. I love the Great Lakes fisheries. I am headed up to Irons, MI to hunt the mighty Esox Lucious via trolling this weekend. We have ciscos in our little lake!! And a big musky bait that mimics ciscos works very well indeed. They are on the feed in the fall. Thanks again!@@DrDave-Ecologic
@@dontransue9843 Hey, Don - You are a whirling dervish of activity. Good for you! Keep an eye on this channel because some like-minded person will probably want to ask or tell about saugers. I haven’t had anything to do with saugers so I will just listen and learn when that topic comes up. I’m hoping people will use the channel to talk to each other when interesting info gets reported here.
Back in Illinois, I am in Kalamazoo now, on the Illinois River at Big Rock, Saugers are a hot commodity in the Spring. Never fished for them, but they must be delicious. Would like to discuss Ciscos also; 11,037 lakes in Michgan, under 200 have ciscos. And they are a treat smoked or pickled. I have to remind the Esox to leave me some. Im always up late either playing guitar or doing engineering work. Take care! @@DrDave-Ecologic
@@dontransue9843 All the best, Don. Good luck with your fishing!
They’re walleye. I saved you a lot of time.
Thanks, Daniel! I hope you looked at the rest of the video because lots of interesting variables are involved beyond the more straightforward ones.
It’s a complex issue. I’d like to know more about the failed stocking program. Were we breeding them in the 60’s? I think walleye can live deeper than people realize. There are lakes up north where I’ve clocked fish around 100 feet. They could be deeper in the Great Lakes and are probably caught accidentally by lake trout fisherman.
@@danielrichardson6054 Hi, Daniel - I’ve run across a few references about fisheries people cultivating Lake Erie Blue Walleye fry and stocking them in lakes other than Lake Erie in an effort to save a population. Mind you, the names of the lakes were kept confidential to protect the fish, it was all done long ago, and those people have long since retired. Meanwhile, we’ve changed from paper records to electronic files, etc. … that info may have been lost. Yet there are lots of fishermen visiting lots of lakes … and now sharing info about the fish they have caught. Maybe we will track down the lakes where these fry were stocked. YES, I think you are right about how deep walleyes can go. Their eyes are designed for seeing in dim light; that can give them an edge re dim/dark times of the daily clock but it would also be handy in deep water. Lake Erie Blue Walleyes were deep water fish; their eyes were relatively large and placed slightly towards the top of the heads, which could also have been adaptations for deep water.
I still catch blue walleye but I throw them back unlike some boneheads that just kill everything
Hi,?@fishinghunting7275 - It is up to people’s individual preferences and needs, of course, but I’m a fan of catch and release, too … especially in places where populations are under pressure and could use a break.
@@DrDave-Ecologic if you find them like I have don't let the Chinese people know.
@@DrDave-Ecologic I'm surprised the sauger wasn't brought up!
@@fishinghunting7275 Interestingly, I have read that certain cultures such as the Chinese value carp and consider them delicious. Having more fishing pressure on carp and Asian Carp could help keep those fish in check so that populations of native fish would have more chance to recover.
@@DrDave-Ecologic them Asian Carp are not native to America at all. The Chinese eat anything and everything crappie, walleye, sunfish, and everything else they also don't care about the size. I wish more people would call the DNR on them. Back to the blue walleye 2 years ago I caught a 8 pounder I called the DNR they didn't care instead told me they were instinct I'm glad I threw her bad into the water. I won't tell anyone the lake but I can tell you it wasn't in a great lake.
I cott 4 of them in the Ohio River last year
Hi, Eric - Can you remember how big they were, how blue they were, and whether or not they had blue mucous?
SAUGER
Hi, Mark - What do you mean by just the word “sauger”? Can you elaborate?
SANDER CANADENSIS...perhaps this is the taxa which you speak of as being the "Blue Walleye"
@@markthomas3730I was about (or should I say aboot? LOL) to make the same point. My Uncle Matty took me out on the Eastern end of Lake Erie when I was 7 y.o... (late 1950s) for Blue Pike (my Uncle always called them Sauger). A plentiful catch for Friday fish fry. No meat on Friday! By the mid-to-late1960s they were tough to find, along with Muskie and Black Bass. But the memory lives on, as fresh as if it were yesterday. The last time we went out for Muskie on the Niagara River (1970?) we came back to the livery empty-handed. My Uncle wept real tears.
On a side note: I pursued Scuba (in a big way). Visited home from points West and dove the West Niagara River. About a mile above Niagara Falls, in a deep slack-water stretch along Grand Island, there were Muskie in numbers, laying back in the slack, snatching Large and Small Mouth Bass (or whatever moved by in the current) and tucking back in along the shore. The largest we spied was about 5 feet long, with a massive, shark-toothed (interlocking teeth upper and lower) mouth. Quite appropriate to its common moniker "Shovel Head". My Uncle Mattie (in his 80s) smiled when I shared the experience. His comment on the flip side: "It's hard to keep Nature -- or a good man down."
Yep. I replied. Especially in a 15 knot current.
👍
Hi, @GAMakin - That’s a great story. A lot of our sweetest memories are tied to outdoor activities with our friends and family. (Don’t worry re “about” and “aboot ”; I’m bilingual and can speak both Canadian and American!) One thought I had in reading about your adventures is that I hope we can pass on to our children and grandchildren a world where those types of adventures can still be had.
The Indians netted them all.
Hi, Steve - I haven’t found any evidence of that for Lake Erie.
As soon as you start talking evolution b.s I'm done. Oh gee that fish has been around for 400 million year! Lol Do you realize how absurd that sounds? Don't trust the science
Hi, Ronald - We have to have tolerance for different ideas. Sometimes we realize that the other person has a valid point of view once we fully grasp what they are saying or “where they are coming from”. As for me, I’ve had a pretty close look at how the idea of evolution explains a lot in science and nature, and I find that argument compelling. But “don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater”! If you find parts of the “blue fish” video to be interesting or useful, then focus on those parts.
Sauger, they don’t exist in Lake Erie, we are charter captains. They are gone
Yes, most sources describe sauger as “extirpated” from Lake Erie (gone from Lake Erie but existing elsewhere). I’ve seen one source saying that sauger are “rare” in Lake Erie but there is no date on the article so it may have been written long ago.
Blue walleyes can be found in abundance in the Montreal river..
Thanks, Huggy Bear. Can you describe these fish in terms of their general size, shade of blue, and whether or not blue mucous seems to be involved?
@@DrDave-Ecologic I caught one just under 3 ft and girth was 19.5'... iradescent blue from the Montreal river...no algae or mucous as it is a fast flowing pristine water shed....the river is hardly fished and some of the best in the world... Montreal river and Lady Evelyn Lake.
@huggybear3098 Thanks, Huggy Bear. That extra detail is super useful!