As a TWWH player, Kislev is my favorite human faction and probably my favorite faction overall. The Kislev set may be enough for my admittance into tabletop.
Rasputia is a good name for a settlement, it means "Crossroads". While Ice Queen's name... British imagination for eastern european/russian names at its finest.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 I guess this settlement wasn't planned for the lore by the time TWW3 came out. Or maybe it's one of the currently renamed settlements like Zerulous or Volary.
Norsca being allowed back into being it's own thing of Neutral Barbarians would be pretty fucking sweet, and could lead to some unique lists like Norscan Human+ Dwarf army lists.
Alexis was already a known Kislev tzar in the old Kislev lore, so interesting that they returned him back, considering how they retconned a lot of characters. He was actually a ruler during Asvar Kul invasion if my memory serves me right.
One thing that stood out to me was during Alexis' lore blurb, it specifically mentioned a *Sigmarite* Empire. I know that Sigmar isn't the only god worshipped in the Empire and at this point there's the Ulricans and the Taalites, but what would an actual demonym/adjective of the Empire be? Empire of Sigmar discounts the other gods and Empire of Man is a bit presumptuous given all the other nations of humans.
Even if the Empire worships multiple gods, Sigmar is the most defining one (much to Ulric's worshippers), especially to strangers. So people mostly refers to the Empire as "Sigmar's" or "Sigmarite". It's not unsimilar to how the people of the United States are refered to as "Americans" when it's just one country of America.
I wonder if this means all female Tzarinas/Khan-Queens were also Ice Witches. If it's a continuos line from the shamaness that first received Ice Magic from the Ancient Widow then I guess that makes sense.
Not all are, but as I understand happens time to time. I suspect the confrary of Ice Witches conspire to make the Tzars have an heir that is also a Ice Witch like the Bene Geserits they are, aways ploting to make the Boyars follow their orders
Good to know :) Ungol Horse archers had bare chested archers back in the day. Lots of good lore building on the lore and Alexis is the Tzar in the War against Chaos - then we get Kattarin the Bloody :) Really hoping fro that supplement from C7 for WFRP in this period
I mean I think we may get Kattarin the Bloody if in story if nothing else as it is notable that Alexis is a "Romanoff" but the ruling family of Kislev during the total war timeline is, "Bokha" suggesting a change in dynasty and a vampire queen messing with suggestion causing a civil war and separate dynasty to rise would make sense.
I'm just curious since I have a friend who is absolutely convinced neither Kislev or Cathay is getting a release with Old World (She believes they were abandoned after the plague scaled back production) I'm just curious if you can list what conclusive evidence found in the book towards their inclusion? For example? I haven't got the book yet, so I'm curious how you know the lore is in the "Playable factions" part of the book? Thank you for anything.
The Old World is designed to be the Horus Heresy of fantasy, so it's going to be designed for the long haul, and with 30k seemingly going to be getting the Imperial Army released it could be a clue that TOW is going to be an experimentation into older parts of Fantasy, hence why Norsca being seperate might be a big deal.
@@grimnir8872 I understand that, and I believe that they aren't going to just throw this game under the bus immediately, but she is among the group of people who believes they are shipping a minimally viable product with no real plans to expand upon it, and so I like to bring more to the argument than just "feels and vibes" and any evidence could be useful.
The specific area where these lore blurbs are coming from are in an area in the book which is listing races, same as all other core rulebooks these are listing playable races :)
@@TheLordOfAllDucks I mean the chinese eyed Bretonnian Lord should show her at the very least, they're using TOW to throw concepts and designs they had sitting around to the wind, and Kislev's roster in TWW3 was specifically designed to be turned into minis.
@@TheLordOfAllDucks It's not really possible to know for certain. GW certainly chose a very careful approach with Old World and it's likely they didn't expect the game to receive such a warm welcome as it did. In the end, they're a capitalist company with a budget to organise and profits to make, so OW's future entirely depends on how profitable it is for GW to update and maintain it. In my opinion, GW kept Kislev, Cathay and anyother new factions for later and decided to focus the first year(s) in releasing their old stuff back. Sure, new factions are cool, but what most people expected of the Old World is the opportunity to buy, expand and play the armies they were already familiar with and for the most part were missing (it's why Bretonnia and Tomb Kings released first). Once the Launch Factions are up and running, GW will probably push OW to the next "phase" (assuming it isn't dying, which I'm confident it won't).
Still have my old Kislev minis... some 40-odd Kossars and 30-odd horse archers from around 1990, along with the ice queen and Valmir von Raukov (old elector count who looks the part) that I could maybe use for a Kislev character. Looking forward to these war sled things. Along with my Empire army I'd have a pretty fluffy force - just need some winged lancers now if I can talk my wallet into it.
As funny as it is the word "Rasputia" can be literelly translated as "A land, where the paths diverge" so it's a pretty clever way of naming the "Crossroads of the World" thing. But yeah, definitely sounds funny and warhammery and on the nose with Rasputin :D
The normalisation of bear cav I'm... not entirely on board with? I hope that the sleighs and sleds aren't drawn by bears, at very least. Burly northern Elks and such would work there fairly well, keeping the northern style but not just putting bears everywhere. The fact that Kislev retains it's holdings over the World's Edge mountains, even with Uzkulak (The northern port of the chaos dwarfs, and their capital when they were just the Eastern Dwarfs before Hashut corrupted them) within the borders shown on the Old World map. They seem to dodge the homeland of the Ogres, but instead range into the land of the Hobgobla Khans, is a testament to the strength of Kislev at this time. It's essentially their golden age before the Great War against Chaos which turns Praag into the haunted, not entirely livable city it would become, and which I imagine destroyed their old eastward-stretching outposts. And, on the one hand, whilst it's neat that they've kept the name of Tzar Alexis Romanoff from the old War against Chaos lore, on the other hand "Romanoff" is just so uncreative lol.
@@bws0212 Yeah... The little groms I'm kind of okay with, since there's only meant to be a handful of them, but there should be some smaller artillery as well, and the bears pulling the war sleds just looked goofy imo, and started to get into Flanderisation territory. Heroes on bears are okay, and an elite unit of bear cavalry is fair, but bear drawn everything just cheapens them.
I know im the minority, but bears are my favorite animal and I just want more bears. Big bears, small bears, magic bears, mean bears, cuddly bears, cool bears 🐻 🐻❄ 😎
@@loremastedex If they reference the Ungols, then they're probably going on horseback, since war bears seem to be a Gospodar thing in lore due to Boris popularizing the bear as cavalry as a show of respect for Ursun.
GW really should just do reference to some slavic folklore female character with Tzarina's name (there is a ton of them there), instead they for some reason decided that a ridiculous pet name for bear will be a good idea...
You know, after all these lore bits, with Cathay surviving for thousands of years in isolation, Kislev always taking most vicious waves of the chaotic assault head on etc. The Empire feels like the most useless human nation to ever be created. Weak, constantly divided, constantly standing on the verge of destruction, getting nearly beaten simultaneously by every Orc/Goblin/Chaos warlord that's ever lived.
I honestly wondered how Kislev could still be a state when I first heard about them (Storm of Chaos) - given how often Chaos factions use them as a highway to destroy the Empire. I would have figured either they'd be nomadic or they would have fled over to the Empire whenever Chaos would be invade (and then move back once the invasion was defeated).
Cathay is just bizarre as a faction lorewise. They're treating the Cathayan Dragons like Warhammer Fantasy Primarchs, even though the faction has very few real threats. The whole Cathay "doesn't want to" expand just sounds like a direct translation of the CCP's BS about their imperialist ambitions (as in they're not expanding, only reclaiming). It does make me wonder who GW and CA consulted with when they decided to expand Cathay's lore.
@@ShadowPhoenixMaximus I mean, in universe, they're beset on all sides, on top of having so much land that disputes are bound to happen. And even then, Yin-Yin apparently wants to expand eastward across the ocean. So I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they don't want to expand.
@@ShadowPhoenixMaximus The issue is Cathay tries to expand, they basically run into the issue that the powers surrounding them also have a big grip of stuff inside. You have to remember the Monkey King, who is basically just a neutral Beastman Warlord, almost conquered Cathay and they did nothing to stop him.
@@norsehorse84 GW/CA said that the Dragon Emperor doesn't want to expand even though they have the technology and manpower to do it. This is a quote from a CA blog post went into the lore concerning Cathay. "Had the Emperor and Moon Empress wished it, sheer force of numbers and powerful magics and artillery could have dominated much of the land to the west, but they have been content to rule and defend their already formidable nation."
They have but recent GW inconsistencies have been strange as they are dervishers in TW same as why we can't have Ungols in TW for some reason and now they are here?
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges I don't understand what you are saying. Surly the physical models that have existed for decades are the authority regarding what the unit looks like on the table top. Not TW:WH.
I wonder if we will get some elements of the Red Tzar for Kislev. I would love to see something akin to the Bokha leaders and how they would look on the tabletop. The amount of creativity for this would be fascinating to see.
TWWH3 realy got me excited for Kislev as a race and then seeing the initially info packets GW released about TOW got me super hyped. This lore updated in the rules even more so. Please, Please, Please GW, don't make us wait abother 4 years before we get Kislev
I don't think the prince "foreseeing" a time is magical divination but him just seeing a bigger picture in a mundane way. Looking at it as "humanity vs. Chaos" rather than "Kislev vs. Chaos and Empire vs. Chaos and Brettonnia vs. Chaos".
Oh, my body trembles every time I hear about the bears but you know... I think it makes much more sense in this timeline as the Cult of Ursus was not forgot yet. Its clear that GW made Kislev the Proeminent power in this era instead of the Empire, fragmented in this times. Alexis, who will be Tzar when the hordes of Kul depart to the south, must be very unpopular with this opinion among the Boyars that benefit from a weak neighbor, but he clearly have Kislev's best interests withim
Now I just realized something If Tzar Boris Bokha was the one who introduced to Kislev such units as: Patriarchs, winged lancers, sons of ursun (warbear riders), strestli, bear sleds, little groms and urugan canons AND the Old world happens a century before Katarina's reign so even before the birth of Boris: Does this mean they will once again rewrite the lore of modern Kislev (or we will get none of these units)?
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges It's called "Warhammer" due to the name of the last Old Slann ship that arrived through the gate to the planet. Source is the 3rd edition WHFB mailing list (apparently) :)
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges I saw a map of the whole world and below it was the titel "Terraqueas" but I don't know if it was official or not. Thanks for the reply!!!
The following have been used in official material, some only in-universe, some only out-of-universe, some both: The Known World The Warhammer World The Landes and Seas of the Worlde The Fated Place Mallus (misspelling of Latin malleus for hammer) The-World-that-Was The World of Legend
Sounds interesting. not expert on Warhammer lore, but in combination with what you said it sounds like Kislev was once a massive empire that tried to turn the empire in bulwork against the south/ recruitment area for human reinforcements against chaos. Also knowing Warhammer's sense of irony, something tells me that Alexis is somehow gonne be responsible for the "shrinking of Kislev". My guess is he is gone persuade his mother to interfere in the Empire under the impression that it will be easy to raise his chosen candidate to throne. This will turn out to be a massive miscalculation due to a Bretonian-backed rival and at least one more locally supported candidate (all three will be "legendary lords"). Futhermore there will be undoubtedly the Tomb kings and greenskins invasions which will encourage an (attempted) expansion of the vampire counts mostly at the cost of the weakened empire but which will also make inroads in Kislev and therefore require a further influx of kislev-forces. All of this southern trouble will therefore distract Kislev from their Northern threats which thus result in a number of "Legendary lords" rising among the Norsca and Chaos tribes which thus attack the weakened border, resulting in a local Kislev rival for Alexis and/or Mishenka with whom they will (at least temporary) fight a civil war before "Great Kislev" falls and they 'll have to bury the hatchet or successfully kill their rivals to save what is left thus resulting in "Little Kislev". On another note, Praise Sigmar...I mean Ursun for reconfirming the differences between Gospodar Ungol. Lets hope those differences will be introduced to Total War as well.
One thing to note is it says Alexis claims he wishes to expand Kislev northwards, which could mean he invades Norsca, basically killing off all the cool Ulric, Tor and Ursun worshipping Norse and encouraging them to the Dark gods, basically Dooming Kislev. However the Everchosen at the time for The Old World will be Asavar Kul, who is a Kurgen, so it might be something else.
@@grimnir8872 Sounds like a decent possibility, especially as that would give us also some "good Norscans". Athough in such a case I'd say that Kislev overcommited it's forces against it's own (perhaps just a grudging) ally which therefore freed up the traditional Chaos Worshippers to bring all their strenght to bear against Kislev and the remnants of the "good norscans"....which to me screams Tzeentch-plot!! Which sounds very in character for Warhammer.
@@FirstoftheAbyss92 I personally would love a Norscan/Norscan Dwarf list that draws from multiple armies in a way to introduce mixed lists. It could work further down the line for things like the Kislevite city defence army which was Dwarves and Kislev and the Army of knights from both the Empire and Kislev that attacked Kul's horde from the rear.
@@grimnir8872 That does sound interesting, I'll always be up for mere varied armies + the bulwark that are the Dwarves (and weren't the dwarves in that area especially melee-focussed) in combination with the shock and skirmish-cavalry of kislev, sounds powerfull.
Loving this lore, but the skeptic in me still thinks this was all written for the initial idea of The Old World as almost all new factions rather than the release of old factions that they pivoted into.
If you want champing about "garry sew" destroy Kislev etc, you don't need to wait. Just play end times, petty much same stuff with one addition: 1. enable god mode 2. conjure a horde army out of thin air 3. kill everyone 4. in case of problems use p1 again 5. (new) accidentally disable god mode and lose the game
This small amount of Kislev lore is already making Asavar more awesome. Because now, instead of destroying 1 of Kislev's 3 great cities, he destroyed 4 of Kislev's 6 great cities, and only one of them was ever rebuilt, while also destroying at least half of an empire large and influential enough to at least attempt to play kingmaker during the Empire's civil war. That's pretty badass.
Big plot twist If the Tzarina's son turns coat due to Tzeetch manipulation or because no-one listens to his reasoning and he is swayed by the chaos gods
But it did. GW claimed people weren't buying minis but then also hadn't released new minis in years. Lots of factions were just being left behind. 8th ed attempt to get people to buy more minis didn't work by introducing hords. People didn't want to buy more of the same. They wanted something new. And GW wasn't giving it. It was a vicious cycle. Reduced suport = Reduced sales = Reduced suport = Reduced sales..etc.
Those names are HORRIBLE to be honest) For me as ukrainian it’s sounds as stereotypic and bad, as it could be “Mishenka” in russian sounds almost like “Mishka” and its translates as (who might have guessed) as BEAR Don’t wanna be rude or toxic, but as for slavic people, it’s sounds like really bad and lazy joke)
It's an old tradition for Warhammer. A lot of Empire and Bretonnia names sound very silly to German and French speakers, while Estalian and Tilean names can induce eyerolling in native Spanish and Italian speakers.
Actually Warhammer didn't fail. GW sabotaged it for Warhammer 40k, 30k and Age of dogshit. Loyal fan's wasn't very important to them. But all The End Times stuff sold out like crazy. It took me 2 reprint's to get the Nagash one in Softback. Hardback was sold out before I could even price it
Bit late today sorry! Rushing around like an insane person :)
As a TWWH player, Kislev is my favorite human faction and probably my favorite faction overall.
The Kislev set may be enough for my admittance into tabletop.
Rasputia is a good name for a settlement, it means "Crossroads".
While Ice Queen's name... British imagination for eastern european/russian names at its finest.
Makes me sad there's no such settlement (even if it starts as a ruin) for it in TW:W3. I love my landmarks.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 I guess this settlement wasn't planned for the lore by the time TWW3 came out.
Or maybe it's one of the currently renamed settlements like Zerulous or Volary.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 They'd be long since razed and occupied by Hobgoblins or Chaos Dwarfs or Ogres...
@@Hatypus so they're a prime target for expansion AND grinding levels for lords and heroes?
@@johnj.spurgin7037 Could always rename the settlements out east too on a Kislev run, especially as Boris
Can't wait to find out more about Kislev cities in the far east.Would be cool if got a novel about a traveling caravan from Kislev to Cathay...
Reconquering the 3 lost cities and the path to the east would be a better campaign for Boris!
Norsca being allowed back into being it's own thing of Neutral Barbarians would be pretty fucking sweet, and could lead to some unique lists like Norscan Human+ Dwarf army lists.
Alexis was already a known Kislev tzar in the old Kislev lore, so interesting that they returned him back, considering how they retconned a lot of characters. He was actually a ruler during Asvar Kul invasion if my memory serves me right.
Yup,he fought against Valnir the Reaper,champion of Nurgle
One thing that stood out to me was during Alexis' lore blurb, it specifically mentioned a *Sigmarite* Empire. I know that Sigmar isn't the only god worshipped in the Empire and at this point there's the Ulricans and the Taalites, but what would an actual demonym/adjective of the Empire be? Empire of Sigmar discounts the other gods and Empire of Man is a bit presumptuous given all the other nations of humans.
"Empire of Sigmar" is fitting given that it was Sigmar who united the empire.
I assume that since he dreams of the future he likely knows the Sigmarite Church will end up winning the war
Even if the Empire worships multiple gods, Sigmar is the most defining one (much to Ulric's worshippers), especially to strangers. So people mostly refers to the Empire as "Sigmar's" or "Sigmarite". It's not unsimilar to how the people of the United States are refered to as "Americans" when it's just one country of America.
Mostly "Imperial" in practice. "Sigmarite" does make sense for a united Empire, as he was its founder, regardless of any religious conflicts.
I wonder if this means all female Tzarinas/Khan-Queens were also Ice Witches. If it's a continuos line from the shamaness that first received Ice Magic from the Ancient Widow then I guess that makes sense.
Not all are, but as I understand happens time to time. I suspect the confrary of Ice Witches conspire to make the Tzars have an heir that is also a Ice Witch like the Bene Geserits they are, aways ploting to make the Boyars follow their orders
Good to know :) Ungol Horse archers had bare chested archers back in the day. Lots of good lore building on the lore and Alexis is the Tzar in the War against Chaos - then we get Kattarin the Bloody :) Really hoping fro that supplement from C7 for WFRP in this period
I mean I think we may get Kattarin the Bloody if in story if nothing else as it is notable that Alexis is a "Romanoff" but the ruling family of Kislev during the total war timeline is, "Bokha" suggesting a change in dynasty and a vampire queen messing with suggestion causing a civil war and separate dynasty to rise would make sense.
I'm Beary excited for this.
I'm just curious since I have a friend who is absolutely convinced neither Kislev or Cathay is getting a release with Old World (She believes they were abandoned after the plague scaled back production)
I'm just curious if you can list what conclusive evidence found in the book towards their inclusion?
For example? I haven't got the book yet, so I'm curious how you know the lore is in the "Playable factions" part of the book?
Thank you for anything.
The Old World is designed to be the Horus Heresy of fantasy, so it's going to be designed for the long haul, and with 30k seemingly going to be getting the Imperial Army released it could be a clue that TOW is going to be an experimentation into older parts of Fantasy, hence why Norsca being seperate might be a big deal.
@@grimnir8872 I understand that, and I believe that they aren't going to just throw this game under the bus immediately, but she is among the group of people who believes they are shipping a minimally viable product with no real plans to expand upon it, and so I like to bring more to the argument than just "feels and vibes" and any evidence could be useful.
The specific area where these lore blurbs are coming from are in an area in the book which is listing races, same as all other core rulebooks these are listing playable races :)
@@TheLordOfAllDucks I mean the chinese eyed Bretonnian Lord should show her at the very least, they're using TOW to throw concepts and designs they had sitting around to the wind, and Kislev's roster in TWW3 was specifically designed to be turned into minis.
@@TheLordOfAllDucks It's not really possible to know for certain. GW certainly chose a very careful approach with Old World and it's likely they didn't expect the game to receive such a warm welcome as it did. In the end, they're a capitalist company with a budget to organise and profits to make, so OW's future entirely depends on how profitable it is for GW to update and maintain it.
In my opinion, GW kept Kislev, Cathay and anyother new factions for later and decided to focus the first year(s) in releasing their old stuff back. Sure, new factions are cool, but what most people expected of the Old World is the opportunity to buy, expand and play the armies they were already familiar with and for the most part were missing (it's why Bretonnia and Tomb Kings released first). Once the Launch Factions are up and running, GW will probably push OW to the next "phase" (assuming it isn't dying, which I'm confident it won't).
Still have my old Kislev minis... some 40-odd Kossars and 30-odd horse archers from around 1990, along with the ice queen and Valmir von Raukov (old elector count who looks the part) that I could maybe use for a Kislev character. Looking forward to these war sled things. Along with my Empire army I'd have a pretty fluffy force - just need some winged lancers now if I can talk my wallet into it.
Mishenka? 😂 Mishenka in Russian means a very affectionate name for a bear.
KISLEV.
But in all honesty I can't wait for all this stuff and it going into Total Warhammer III.
I really appreciate all these Vidz, still waiting for my Books ;)
As funny as it is the word "Rasputia" can be literelly translated as "A land, where the paths diverge" so it's a pretty clever way of naming the "Crossroads of the World" thing. But yeah, definitely sounds funny and warhammery and on the nose with Rasputin :D
The normalisation of bear cav I'm... not entirely on board with? I hope that the sleighs and sleds aren't drawn by bears, at very least. Burly northern Elks and such would work there fairly well, keeping the northern style but not just putting bears everywhere.
The fact that Kislev retains it's holdings over the World's Edge mountains, even with Uzkulak (The northern port of the chaos dwarfs, and their capital when they were just the Eastern Dwarfs before Hashut corrupted them) within the borders shown on the Old World map. They seem to dodge the homeland of the Ogres, but instead range into the land of the Hobgobla Khans, is a testament to the strength of Kislev at this time. It's essentially their golden age before the Great War against Chaos which turns Praag into the haunted, not entirely livable city it would become, and which I imagine destroyed their old eastward-stretching outposts.
And, on the one hand, whilst it's neat that they've kept the name of Tzar Alexis Romanoff from the old War against Chaos lore, on the other hand "Romanoff" is just so uncreative lol.
Totally agree, ice war sledge drawn by elks would look much better,hope that GW when the time comes will go with that idea.
@@bws0212 Yeah... The little groms I'm kind of okay with, since there's only meant to be a handful of them, but there should be some smaller artillery as well, and the bears pulling the war sleds just looked goofy imo, and started to get into Flanderisation territory. Heroes on bears are okay, and an elite unit of bear cavalry is fair, but bear drawn everything just cheapens them.
It’s probably too late but for the love of Sigmar, GW, don’t just Space wolves Kislev and make it nothing but the bear kingdom of bears.
Considering how they are in TW Warhammer 3 i sincerely doubt that
I know im the minority, but bears are my favorite animal and I just want more bears. Big bears, small bears, magic bears, mean bears, cuddly bears, cool bears 🐻 🐻❄ 😎
@@saundersthegoat3321 Honestly would i like less bears and more horses? Yes. But im also ok with how Kislev currently is as Bear Nation
I'm hoping they'll make the faction 33% Slavic references/33% Winter references/33% Bear references
@@loremastedex If they reference the Ungols, then they're probably going on horseback, since war bears seem to be a Gospodar thing in lore due to Boris popularizing the bear as cavalry as a show of respect for Ursun.
GW really should just do reference to some slavic folklore female character with Tzarina's name (there is a ton of them there), instead they for some reason decided that a ridiculous pet name for bear will be a good idea...
Kislev!
You know, after all these lore bits, with Cathay surviving for thousands of years in isolation, Kislev always taking most vicious waves of the chaotic assault head on etc. The Empire feels like the most useless human nation to ever be created.
Weak, constantly divided, constantly standing on the verge of destruction, getting nearly beaten simultaneously by every Orc/Goblin/Chaos warlord that's ever lived.
I honestly wondered how Kislev could still be a state when I first heard about them (Storm of Chaos) - given how often Chaos factions use them as a highway to destroy the Empire. I would have figured either they'd be nomadic or they would have fled over to the Empire whenever Chaos would be invade (and then move back once the invasion was defeated).
Cathay is just bizarre as a faction lorewise. They're treating the Cathayan Dragons like Warhammer Fantasy Primarchs, even though the faction has very few real threats. The whole Cathay "doesn't want to" expand just sounds like a direct translation of the CCP's BS about their imperialist ambitions (as in they're not expanding, only reclaiming). It does make me wonder who GW and CA consulted with when they decided to expand Cathay's lore.
@@ShadowPhoenixMaximus I mean, in universe, they're beset on all sides, on top of having so much land that disputes are bound to happen. And even then, Yin-Yin apparently wants to expand eastward across the ocean. So I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they don't want to expand.
@@ShadowPhoenixMaximus The issue is Cathay tries to expand, they basically run into the issue that the powers surrounding them also have a big grip of stuff inside. You have to remember the Monkey King, who is basically just a neutral Beastman Warlord, almost conquered Cathay and they did nothing to stop him.
@@norsehorse84 GW/CA said that the Dragon Emperor doesn't want to expand even though they have the technology and manpower to do it.
This is a quote from a CA blog post went into the lore concerning Cathay.
"Had the Emperor and Moon Empress wished it, sheer force of numbers and powerful magics and artillery could have dominated much of the land to the west, but they have been content to rule and defend their already formidable nation."
3:15 The Kislev horse archer models have been around since fourth edition WHFB.
They have but recent GW inconsistencies have been strange as they are dervishers in TW same as why we can't have Ungols in TW for some reason and now they are here?
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges I don't understand what you are saying. Surly the physical models that have existed for decades are the authority regarding what the unit looks like on the table top. Not TW:WH.
Beary cool Nathaniel
I wonder if we will get some elements of the Red Tzar for Kislev. I would love to see something akin to the Bokha leaders and how they would look on the tabletop. The amount of creativity for this would be fascinating to see.
Do you think we'll be seeing anything on Albion?
I just finished reading "riders of the dead" by dan abnett, I really hope I can make my winged lancers shine!
TWWH3 realy got me excited for Kislev as a race and then seeing the initially info packets GW released about TOW got me super hyped. This lore updated in the rules even more so.
Please, Please, Please GW, don't make us wait abother 4 years before we get Kislev
I don't think the prince "foreseeing" a time is magical divination but him just seeing a bigger picture in a mundane way. Looking at it as "humanity vs. Chaos" rather than "Kislev vs. Chaos and Empire vs. Chaos and Brettonnia vs. Chaos".
This makes me wanna remake Kislev of old in Total War Warhammer, I wonder where Kharakorsi would be on the map
I'd defo do a kislev army they sound cool!! Wait did u say dwarfs are next?! Oh hell yes hope so
I hope they also include Roppsmen though.
Oh, my body trembles every time I hear about the bears but you know... I think it makes much more sense in this timeline as the Cult of Ursus was not forgot yet. Its clear that GW made Kislev the Proeminent power in this era instead of the Empire, fragmented in this times. Alexis, who will be Tzar when the hordes of Kul depart to the south, must be very unpopular with this opinion among the Boyars that benefit from a weak neighbor, but he clearly have Kislev's best interests withim
Now I just realized something
If Tzar Boris Bokha was the one who introduced to Kislev such units as: Patriarchs, winged lancers, sons of ursun (warbear riders), strestli, bear sleds, little groms and urugan canons AND the Old world happens a century before Katarina's reign so even before the birth of Boris:
Does this mean they will once again rewrite the lore of modern Kislev (or we will get none of these units)?
Boris reintroduced the Church to the state so these things existed before that :)
When the bear hussars arrived !
Norsca needs to be it's own thing, cuz mammoths!
Nice to see Zamość in Warhammer. At least for now ;)
So, canonically speaking, what is the name of the world in which Warhammer resides?
Warhammer it seems? It's odd
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges It's called "Warhammer" due to the name of the last Old Slann ship that arrived through the gate to the planet. Source is the 3rd edition WHFB mailing list (apparently) :)
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges I saw a map of the whole world and below it was the titel "Terraqueas" but I don't know if it was official or not. Thanks for the reply!!!
The following have been used in official material, some only in-universe, some only out-of-universe, some both:
The Known World
The Warhammer World
The Landes and Seas of the Worlde
The Fated Place
Mallus (misspelling of Latin malleus for hammer)
The-World-that-Was
The World of Legend
@twincast2005
And...
The Mortal World
The World
Sounds interesting. not expert on Warhammer lore, but in combination with what you said it sounds like Kislev was once a massive empire that tried to turn the empire in bulwork against the south/ recruitment area for human reinforcements against chaos.
Also knowing Warhammer's sense of irony, something tells me that Alexis is somehow gonne be responsible for the "shrinking of Kislev".
My guess is he is gone persuade his mother to interfere in the Empire under the impression that it will be easy to raise his chosen candidate to throne. This will turn out to be a massive miscalculation due to a Bretonian-backed rival and at least one more locally supported candidate (all three will be "legendary lords"). Futhermore there will be undoubtedly the Tomb kings and greenskins invasions which will encourage an (attempted) expansion of the vampire counts mostly at the cost of the weakened empire but which will also make inroads in Kislev and therefore require a further influx of kislev-forces.
All of this southern trouble will therefore distract Kislev from their Northern threats which thus result in a number of "Legendary lords" rising among the Norsca and Chaos tribes which thus attack the weakened border, resulting in a local Kislev rival for Alexis and/or Mishenka with whom they will (at least temporary) fight a civil war before "Great Kislev" falls and they 'll have to bury the hatchet or successfully kill their rivals to save what is left thus resulting in "Little Kislev".
On another note, Praise Sigmar...I mean Ursun for reconfirming the differences between Gospodar Ungol. Lets hope those differences will be introduced to Total War as well.
One thing to note is it says Alexis claims he wishes to expand Kislev northwards, which could mean he invades Norsca, basically killing off all the cool Ulric, Tor and Ursun worshipping Norse and encouraging them to the Dark gods, basically Dooming Kislev. However the Everchosen at the time for The Old World will be Asavar Kul, who is a Kurgen, so it might be something else.
@@grimnir8872 Sounds like a decent possibility, especially as that would give us also some "good Norscans".
Athough in such a case I'd say that Kislev overcommited it's forces against it's own (perhaps just a grudging) ally which therefore freed up the traditional Chaos Worshippers to bring all their strenght to bear against Kislev and the remnants of the "good norscans"....which to me screams Tzeentch-plot!! Which sounds very in character for Warhammer.
@@FirstoftheAbyss92 I personally would love a Norscan/Norscan Dwarf list that draws from multiple armies in a way to introduce mixed lists. It could work further down the line for things like the Kislevite city defence army which was Dwarves and Kislev and the Army of knights from both the Empire and Kislev that attacked Kul's horde from the rear.
@@grimnir8872 That does sound interesting, I'll always be up for mere varied armies
+ the bulwark that are the Dwarves (and weren't the dwarves in that area especially melee-focussed) in combination with the shock and skirmish-cavalry of kislev, sounds powerfull.
Loving this lore, but the skeptic in me still thinks this was all written for the initial idea of The Old World as almost all new factions rather than the release of old factions that they pivoted into.
If you want champing about "garry sew" destroy Kislev etc, you don't need to wait. Just play end times, petty much same stuff with one addition:
1. enable god mode
2. conjure a horde army out of thin air
3. kill everyone
4. in case of problems use p1 again
5. (new) accidentally disable god mode and lose the game
So we are getting a not-Karakorum in the east😂
This small amount of Kislev lore is already making Asavar more awesome. Because now, instead of destroying 1 of Kislev's 3 great cities, he destroyed 4 of Kislev's 6 great cities, and only one of them was ever rebuilt, while also destroying at least half of an empire large and influential enough to at least attempt to play kingmaker during the Empire's civil war. That's pretty badass.
Kislev lore confirmed satire
Bare chested horse archers do not really make sense - they would freeze.
Mmorowind sixth house = fantasy Gene stealer cult analogue?
Tragic twist: Alexis is actually the bastard son of a chaos warrior, his dreams are the whispers of the ruinous powers.
Big plot twist If the Tzarina's son turns coat due to Tzeetch manipulation or because no-one listens to his reasoning and he is swayed by the chaos gods
Nah. Alexis is an already established character. He's the Tsar during Asavar Kul's invasion in the old lore.
Hope they bring back Ungols and make them less the ice and bear faction. Right now they have become really flanderized compared to their old lore.
Warhammer Fantasy didn't fail because of staggered releases and no updates, I don't know why that's become a truism.
But it did. GW claimed people weren't buying minis but then also hadn't released new minis in years. Lots of factions were just being left behind. 8th ed attempt to get people to buy more minis didn't work by introducing hords. People didn't want to buy more of the same. They wanted something new. And GW wasn't giving it. It was a vicious cycle. Reduced suport = Reduced sales = Reduced suport = Reduced sales..etc.
@@chiddy786 I think that's just opinion. Its not my recollection at all.
Those names are HORRIBLE to be honest) For me as ukrainian it’s sounds as stereotypic and bad, as it could be
“Mishenka” in russian sounds almost like “Mishka” and its translates as (who might have guessed) as BEAR
Don’t wanna be rude or toxic, but as for slavic people, it’s sounds like really bad and lazy joke)
It's an old tradition for Warhammer. A lot of Empire and Bretonnia names sound very silly to German and French speakers, while Estalian and Tilean names can induce eyerolling in native Spanish and Italian speakers.
I get it, truly, but holler back when you get a proud noble house that's literally named "Incompetent", "Subhuman", or "Asshole".
Actually Warhammer didn't fail. GW sabotaged it for Warhammer 40k, 30k and Age of dogshit. Loyal fan's wasn't very important to them. But all The End Times stuff sold out like crazy. It took me 2 reprint's to get the Nagash one in Softback. Hardback was sold out before I could even price it
Loving these lore dumps! 💯