I'd love them to make it so Southlanders are basically Fantasy Wakanda with Old One tech instead of vibranium. Then make it so the real origin of the Amazons is that they were a tribe of Southlanders who accidentally transported all their village’s women to Lustria while trying to make an Old One teleporter work. And with no way to get back, they basically built their own community there. Same race as far as TWW is concerned, but you'd have multiple Southlander LLs in Southlands, and one Amazon one in Lustria.
Yeah, having the Southlanders be some kind of fantasy version of Wakanda mixed with the aesthetics of the Zulu (probably the most well-known African ethnic group to British people) could be pretty cool. Maybe they could ride quaggas instead of horses and use rhinos as living tanks and own tamed cheetahs & hyenas as hunting companions. There's a lot of neat potential if they just put in the effort.
@@Serpentking789 Probably the best known are the Zulu but also Ethiopia! Schools sometimes cover the Italian invasion of Ethiopia so could also be done, though we don't see much of its culture through it unfortunately.
There would only be actual backlash if they handle it poorly but seeing the track record for faction reimagining and creation so far I’m assuming it will be pretty good
The Arabs irl are so fucking badass. Youngest Culture Group In History, last proper desert hinterland barbarians (mean that as a compliment) left, preserved the knowledge that let Europe become great. Glorious opportunity for stories.
Yea araby, tilea, and estalia are on the top of my list rn for factions that I desperately want. I’m a sucker for estalia/tileas Italian and Spanish aesthetic but I have to admit that I think araby could bring some much needed diversity to the game. I’m pretty familiar with European history and mythology but I can’t say the same when it comes to Arabic history and mythology. So, I see this as an opportunity to adapt new and interesting creatures and aspects from Arabic folklore that I’ve never heard of before
It's a shame so much fiction has been limited by fear of backlash. It does these cultures an injustice, saying that they can't be explored for fear of how the perpetually-offended might respond.
The Southlands still have enough room to accommodate additional new races. Fantasy variants of Kush, Great Zimbabwe or also Zulus could meaningfully expand the Warhammer world; if you do it right!
African kingdoms are so diverse that there is no need to default to the Zulu aesthetic. Ethiopia and Mali come to mind. Personally I would want them to like the kingdom of Benin. Their armor looks cool. The Nubians are cool too. A diversity of kingdoms would be nice.
@@zacmarulo8721 Yeah... Fantasy Kush and Fantasy Great Zimbabwe south of Nehekhara, some cool Fantasy Zulus, too! I don't need "these pygmies" from the 80es. XD
I would LOOOOVE for them to be incorporated, they can take inspiration from Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, The Zulu, Yoruba, Nubia, Mali, Songhai, Benin etc Africa has lots of lore and interesting mythology and as a black person this would be lit
As the Southlanders are not a unified nation and as far as we know there are many tribes, I think it would be safer to assume that the most frequent traders and travelers to the Old World are those from the more northerly tribes. These people are closely related to the Araby Sultanate, either because they are vassals or because through trade they have adopted certain aspects of their culture. Personally, in TOW I think the most likely thing is that if an army of Araby shows up one day (perhaps in a supplement where the Land of the Dead is also explored, since initially they will only focus on Khemri) we will see Southlanders either reflected in some unit from the army list or even as subfaction rules.
The avoidance of Araby and the Southlands along with similar taboos in wider fiction to prevent offending people is honestly offensive in itself. It says that those cultures are not worth the risk of exploring, their people too hysterical and threatening to even portray without fear of reprisal or campaigns of artificial outrage. It's a regressive attitude in modern media and it should be resisted by creators.
Similar to Nippon and Japan or Cathay and China The Southlands could have some awesome African inspired Monstrous Units. I would love to see a Warhammer Grootslang.
Honestly I would love to see southlanders. One of the major charms of Warhammer Fantasy is seeing it apply its brand of fantasy on to real world cultures. While yes there are going to be people saying things about it on one side or another, I still think it would be super cool. As someone who for a long time didn't really have any good represntation in WFB prior to TWW3, I think it can only enrich the setting more. Its also not like there's some other major faction that Southlanders would be "pushing out". Plus there is a ton of things to draw on.
Given the means in which Cathay/Kislev have been fleshed out, the idea of a Southlander cultural group would have to have its own interesting intersection with its neighboring forces/factions, and I think the most interesting way to present them would be as a kinder mirror to Norsca - i.e., these are a people nearer to the Southern Chaos Wastes, who have always lived with the presence of the Lizardmen, and who have Dawi neighbors. Rather than serving daemons and falling to their corruption, they have their provings by slaying daemons and displaying their resilience to corrupting influences. They could look upon the colonial ambitions of the Empire/the Asur and see both as peoples who bring with them only the potential to be consumed by Chaos. It'd be interesting if they actually properly disliked the Asur, both as an alliance with the Dawi of the Southlands but also because whenever the Asur show up there is a rise in more Slaanesh-aligned terrors coming up from the Southern Wastes. Sort of like Kislev, in the 'we are your bulwark' mentality, but rather viewing themselves as a whetstone and a blade against the darkness. They never asked for help, and by all accounts they're doing a much better job in the South than humanity in the north with regards to keeping it all from destroying existence. Could also frame them in a neat intersection with Araby/Nehekhara, - the Southlander does not fear death because they have proven themselves in life doing the only things that truly matter - and thus one raised by a Tomb King necromancer is just a shell; and one who comes back of their own will is back because more of the great work must be done before again they may know the long silent embrace. Let Araby and Bretonnia fight; they are too concerned with pageantry - their festooned garments mean nothing. As for cultural coding, that'd have to be really handled by people able to ensure proper appreciation for the most metal/cool aspects of the cultures they wish to draw from.
Well there still needs to be more context for Araby as well, but for one thing the Southlands is a conglomeration of Africa, an umbrella term like how people use Africa today to suggest the whole continent is just one country. Which is an issue for me not just being a black person but also being somebody at least fairly observant of geography, as well as a budding Warhammer fan. They don't even diversify between different; clans, kingdoms, nations, tribes, cultures, subcultures, etc. And there's close to no info whatsoever. Even the old models for Nippon and others had some lore attached that was a bit more concrete. But nothing at all for the Southlands. Which is crazy since you would think there might be as much grimdark and barely “getting by” levels of order against chaos going on. In fact the Southlanders would probably have an ongoing blood fued with armies of mutants and substantiated breeds of them like the Beastmen and the Skaven. But there's nothing about that either. Hell, the Halflings get more references than any Southlanders, there's no mythical mentionings like the Tigermen of Ind or the Serpentmen of Khuresh. And for another thing, the Southlanders would probably also have ongoing strife with the Dark Elves and Tomb Kings. How they could or would be effected by Chaos however, I don't know. Because of the dense vegetation of the forests, jungles and swamps, maybe the plant life themselves can be a bit apathetic to them? 🤔. Like the Ruinous Powers planted evil seeds or something and that taints the already choking levels of greenery with chaos spawned monsters, mutants from humans that ate their tainted fruit, or even just the trees themselves planting demons or other twisted growths in the Southlands. Also the Nubians should be a thing, like The Best (human) archers around. History credits them with this. So if there is a region like Nubia in the Southlands they should probably be like the Desert Gateway or something. Meaning nobody just “passes through” their terf without getting pincushioned by spears, arrows and maybe even riddled with bullets. Basically like the Kislev and/or Grand Cathay of the Southlands. For all we know they could be something warding off the realm of chaos from enveloping the world similar to the Vortex in Ulthuan or more like that ritual site in Albion which caused the fall of the human society, geographical transformation as well as mutation of the wildlife and the degeneration of the giants. And I'm not trying to put it all on GW because I know that they're working with a lot as it is. But having said that they could definitely allocate some writers or hire some new ones to elaborate more on the Southlands, get Tolkien-esque with it like how the kingdoms of men were largely in the Southwest until they started expanding a bit more northwest-wards (which I guess would lead into the Easterling territories across the desert, and while he didn't talk about it a lot there is an Africa like region in the Middle Earth world called Umbar. Of which the Shadow of War games elaborate to a bit with the character Baranor whom was mostly raised in Gondor and became a knight captain in it (which is nothing to scoff at, even Talion - The main player character, was a watch captain of the Black Gate) his mercenary brother Serka.
would love a southland faction, so many great cultures to be inspired by, but also a great fauna for an army! gimme hippos, rhinos, elephants, crocs, buffalo minotaurs, lion chariots, were-hyenas, ostrich riders , zebra cavalry and gorilla warriors 😍
Backlash could best be acoided by bringing in African people with relevant knowledge and consulting heavily. Also dont make them a totally evil faction like araby mostly was. They should be one of the gray factions like the empire and cathay rather than norsca. I think the results would be great
I think the Southlanders deserve to be fleshed out. Disclaimer: The idea of giraffes in the jungle doesn't make sense. CA should consider adding grasslands to the Southlands geography.
Zulus would be amongs my last choice, maybe as part of a faction, like the Cult of Ulrik in the Empire for example. It would be rather limiting. Not for all Southlanders though. There are so many myths and kingdoms to take inspiration from.
They're more than likely in Marienburg somewhere. Likely in their own corner of the massive city like everyone else from Tilea to the Dwarves to Cathay to Araby to Ulthuan. It's basically like their New York City - a little bit of everybody is there 😂🤷🏾♂️😂. And I'd definitely see them having a bit of a love-hate with the Lizardmen. Having a more rival-like relationship rather than being straight up enemies. And as we know the Lizardmen are constantly searching for clues and plaques related to the Old Ones' - Great Plan that they had for the Old World/Known World. Which would bring them into conflict with everyone because of how dogged they are in their pursuits, even with potential allies against chaos. Much like the Tech-Priests or Kin/Leagues of Votaan in 40k whenever they find tech or resources that they basically don't wanna share with anyone else. But more than once they've probably fought alongside them too, especially against hated enemies like Chaos Worshippers, Demons, Beastmen and Skaven. Basically like how the Imperium will shake hands in a begrudging truce w/ the Aeldari of some craft world clan if the galaxy is threatened by the Necron. Or even that one time when the Silent King himself supposedly parlayed with the Blood Angels. So it would stand to reason that the Southlanders would occasionally work with the Lizardmen instead of against them. Certain tribes or kingdoms might even trade what relics from their ancient mesoamerican style culture that the Southlanders might find to the Lizardmen in exchange for gold or something else like learning some Slaan magic spells or help with construction. There's probably like 3 major tribes and about 7 or so significant powers in general, each one a nation with about 20 or so villages to each faction. The 4 smaller ones would be like Tilea and Estalia in the Old World, basically saying; they're around but not as much as said about them since the setting mostly centers on the Empire of Man, Dwarves and Elves. But Tilea and Estalia are getting more lore and we should expect the same, as well as model units in the future that would be more distinct to them rather than a mixture of like German-esque culture with French and Italian Renaissance period subcultural undertones like the clothing, mannerisms, interests in trade and courtships, etc.
A cool inspiration for the Southlanders at least in my opinion would be the Kingdom of Benin, they can a or a collection of costal kingdoms or city states, and Benin has a very cool looking armor that doesn’t seem to have any outside inspiration and would give them their own unique style
After reading the comments I feel the need to remind people lore is not real history, it isn’t set in stone. You can just rewrite them to not be insensitive and kinda yikes. The Warhammer world is quite literally a fantasy version of Earth and different peoples do represent real life humans and making them caricatures because Warhammer is very focused on societies as a whole rather than individuals it makes it seem that you’re saying those people are inherently that way. When was the last time we saw a non violent maniac Dark Elf? By pure statistical probability some of them aren’t like Malekith because individuals are people and aren’t just what their race or faction overall is. DnD has already acknowledged that people are a product of their society not just born the exact same.
Yeah, while I generally bemoan attempts to rewrite canon to conform to whatever shades the "Political Correctness" crowd is spinning at any given time, there are serious exceptions. On the topic of Southlands lore respectively...yikes. A well-done Sub-Saharan African faction that fit well into the setting's "grimdarkness" (one of my only problems with modern Cathay and, to a lesser extent, Kislev is how goody two shoes they are relative to the Empire) and depicted the people as humans like those of the Empire or Kislev would be a dream come true for me as a West African history nut. I just hope Games Workshop would actually derive from Sub-Saharan cultures (a Sahel peoples' like faction with some Zulu aesthetics would be rad), rather than be tempted to make a "fantasy Wakanda".
@@Hosheyakozilla yes, to clarify I don't think they should be written out or anything. They can do a well written sub-Saharan African faction and I would love if they did, they just need to make sure they don't pull a 80's Warhammer thing where they take random things from that culture and throw it in with occasional stereotypes. I am likely what a centrist would consider to be in the "political correctness" crowd and honestly 2016 youtubers that took people out of context and made us sound nuts have poisoned the well so much that its hard to get anything done regarding actual issues regarding representation.
I remember something about Southern Arabyans being akin to Southlanders in appearance (Cities of Ka-Sabar, Songhai, as well as the Taylif, Aethiops and Zamesi tribes). I personally would love if they added more African style cultures, kingdoms and Empires inspired the wealthy Malians, to the sea-faring Swahili and and on. Same for Hinterlands of Khuresh.
Would love a Legendary Lord to be based on Tseode, an exiled bastard prince who taught his mother’s tribe the secrets of metallurgy and canoes and founded a culture group.
I’m all for some southlander content one day, the beauty and fun of Warhammer is in adapting aspects of real world cultures and turning them into insanely fun and over the top fantasy equivalents. Many European cultures have received this treatment so I’m all in favor of African themed factions. I’m sure there are lots of gamers around the world who would love to see their cultural identities get some representation in Warhammer and as a history and mythology nerd I’m all for it. I’m sure there’s plenty of creatures in African folklore that are quite unlike the typical gryphons and dragons that we are familiar with, and I welcome that variety and creativity👌
It would be so ducking cool to roll out in total warhammer with an army of seahorses, or even have regiment of renown zoulou warriors. It might be really tricky to adapt it in a way that wouldn't ruffle any feathers, but if it gets done it would be really nice.
do Southlanders cooperate with southland ape beastmen? combined you could rise a valid faction. we already need more settlements in the south east southlands. maybe this can be a classic horde?
From what I've heard so far (along with this video) about the Southlands I suspect that the Southlanders exist in various small Kingdoms and tribes loosely based on the people from Zaire and the Congo. They would probably be competing with the apemen, greenskins and lizardmen. They might tame elephants and other beasts of burden along with dinosaurs. There might be some tribes that perform cannibalism as it's mentioned in the lore that the first ghouls were descended from evil cannibal tribes from the Southlands and with that in mind there might be some ghouls in the Southlands. I'm also going to take a wild guess and say there might be some pygmies there too.
The thing is a lot of the lore has been retconned or forgotten and maybe retconned in the future. A lot of "southlander" or African-inspired cultures are present in Araby for example so we know there are influences on Araby within the lore, at the same time we also know that the Pygmies while not officially retconned were also kind of forgotten about and are only really in Lustria weirdly enough. As for the Ghoul lore I never heard of that, interesting stuff.
Unfortunately they would have to consider real world consequences when handling this. They would balance on the edge of a knife, on one hand falling into embarrassing over-corrections, and unintentional insults on the other.
It’s absolutely fucking horseshit. Just do what they did with all the human races. Pick a real culture group, make their hats bigger, make their legends real, give them some sort of big monster to ride as a mount, boom Faction. If they can make China and Russia and Germany and France and Scotland/Ireland and Scandinavia and the Mongols why can’t they make Africa? Why? What fucking reason can they not? Cause Africa is more primitive than other races? That would add to the badass. Humans powerful enough that their bronze weapons can kill a man in steel armor and survive diseases and beasts that would fell an Old World hunter in hours.
That is precisely why if they are going to risk something it will be with Araby, of which there is already a lot of background and a Warmaster army list, and not properly in the Southlanders as an independent entity. In that case there might be a southlander unit on Araby's army list, or maybe subfaction rules for the army to represent the nomads south of the Sultanate.
I would like if the Southlanders Will look like a mix of Ethiopians and Malian Empire, with padded armor, short and straight Sword, long mace with bronze head, and throwing knife. Maybe a civilizated /tribal Hybrid roster, like the normal orcs and savage orcs, with tribal skirmisher equipped with javelin,sling and throwing weapons,and civilizated medium infantry with War Elephant and armoured Rhino. What did you think ? (Please,not zebra or Hippo riders , Is HIGH Fringe.) And Lore of Life and Beasts.
I hope if GW (or Cubicle 7) ever does cover the Southlanders that they don't make them a big kingdom or empire. There's a really interesting vibe in the sub-Nehekharan Southlands, you have Lizardmen who mostly rely on skinks rather than Saurus, and you have savage orcs. I think the humans should be similarly scrappy, living a more brutal lifestyle where everyone has to be capable of fighting in order to make do. I think if you start throwing human empires in down there it loses some of that charm. A big trading city like Timbuktu? Sure. But I don't want some kind of "chief of chiefs" essentially ruling the Southlanders as a faction.
I agree. I think the Southlands would do better as being a catch-all name for a series of petty kingdoms and tribes with similar histories, methods of warfare and cultural traits - kind of like Araby yet with less big cities (a Timbuktu, as you said, here and there would be sweet though).
@@cegesh1459 I'm aware Timbuktu was the heart of an empire lol. My point was more that, if we are taking your idea about the Southlands remaining a sort of scrappy and decentralized power seriously, one way this could be achieved would be to make the state organization a little like Araby's albeit with less big trading cities (save, as I said, a pseudo-Timbuktu here and there throughout the Southlands). Your idea about the presence of real nations being a part of the Southlands, in addition to the tribes and city-states, would be a more ideal and accurate implementation of Sub-Saharan Africa into Warhammer Fantasy. I think you took my phraseology of "petty kingdom" a little too literally (not your fault, I should've been much clearer). I simply meant "petty" as in not as individually large, powerful or urbanized as a major province of the southern Empire, Bretonnia or Cathay (which are stated to, when taken on the whole, be the strongest human nations in the setting). When I described the Southlands as "catch-all term" for a series of nations, tribes and city-states I wasn't really calling for them, as a hypothetical faction, to be as unified as Bretonnia, the Empire (which isn't all that unified) or even Araby, I was agreeing with you that it would be a terrible idea to unite the Southlands as a single, massive nation under a Grand Chief or some nonsense.
Unfortunately, due to the current sensitivity of the political climate, I don't think that CA/GW would touch the southlanders. Anything short of wakanda would be considered racist.
They can just retcon a lot of their previous culturally-insensitive stuff. They do it all the time, even now. And most people don't even care for the old lore. Why not retcon to make a proper Southerlander faction that all people can enjoy?
@@arnauddelaclos3221 Because it's cool? All Warhammer lore is based on the real world and Africa has a lot of mythology and culture to pull from like Cathay and Kislev. Don't include your silyl politics in Fantasy.
@@teaman1275 every fictionnal univers does it , world of warcraft , DnD and it always go for the worst . Suckin the univers to gain a few people who absolutly want themselves in the univers . Pure Weakness , madness
What very little information was ever available on them (and that wasn't outdated 80s nonsense) pushes a South African aesthetic. There was a fun fan supplement for one of the RPGs that compiled what limited information was available and ran from there, giving them a mixed Zulu and Swazi culture, albeit with religious inspiration coming more from West/Central Africa. For all that there's lots of inspiration to draw across the continent, I think they should be careful not to just jam it all together. There's a reason the Empire, Bretonnia, Tilea, and Estalia are separate places instead of one pan-European faction, and Africa is a lot larger than Europe. Fortunately even if they just stick with South Africa there's lots to draw on between Zululand, Swaziland, Great Zimbabwe, Monomatapa, and even the southerly parts of Kongo.
Much like Araby, I expect the current political climate may prevent them from doing this. Why invite the scrutiny from groups who will find fault no matter what? From all sides..
I don't understand this political climat thing. A Scheherazade inspired Araby would be awsome. It has nothing to do with our real world. I am not upset with Kislev as a slav. It has Russian, Ukrainien, Khazar, polish mix and nobody is upset.
@@michaelpetrovich5353 It's not actually the people from those places that would get offended. It's the neo-Nazi crowd who would get mad at their being black people in Warhammer. As evidenced by quite a few comments under this video, and the storm of racial bigotry that got hurled at a mod that randomized skin colour (the moment the n-word came out, and it did, claims of defending the lore were revealed as hollow excuses). Now personally, I'm all for offending bigots, so I say bring on Araby, the Southlands, etc.
@@KartarNighthawk well to hell with them. Araby and the black kingdoms of the South lands have been part of the warhammer lore for a long time and i want them in the game.
I've scrolled through and found none. I have found people predicting your kind of comment though. I see people generally saying, as i do, "I want these, but because people will always find fault, it won't happen". Is this incorrect?
@@s7robin105 I mean if it's a joke and you still get mad, whose fault is that? Also if the idiot is legit being racist, who gives a fuck? Why even give him the attention/energy and feed him more?
Main reason I think they're ignored and underdeveloped is in large part because of how segments of the community can be, well.. racist. If Games Workshop worked and put enough effort into southern humans with research of cultures and concepts to work with it could work but then the conflict starts where the bad apples show their hand and damage the overall image of the series and brand consumers. Its a lot like when the far right latches onto 40k without understanding its a satire and not an endorsement of the ideas in the universe.
Nice comment. Because of racism and also because I dont think central and south African countries are a market at all. And I believe that any extension or DLC based on black people would sell less unfortunately. However, I dont think there would be backlash if the topic is researched properly and in a respectful way, avoiding typical tropes/prejudices we always see in fantasy when talking about the huge varities of black African cultures. But to summarize, you have : sensitive political topic, meticulous researches required and potential less profit to make. It gives me enough reason to think it will never happen any time soon.
@@Styerson I disagree. Not every faction is about marketing to someone. I have no German heritage, no relation to France yet I like the factions. Same with Cathay and Kislev. If a faction is well designed it will get people who like it. Personally I say they should bite the bullet because overall it would give them positive PR and grow the community as well.
@Styerson British history isn't really in Warhammer at all despite being it's largest audience. Well, you could count the Arthurian elements of Bretonnia... But anyway I think as long as they make it cool, it will sell. People don't need a specific connection to Africa
@@s7robin105 I dont know any lizardmen alive, so I guess the lizardmen race was created for non lizardmen people @_@ so I guess you are right :P More seriously, what I want to say is that of course target market is important. We have more game focusing on Chinese culture lately as you have a growing chinese middle class that enjoy this kind of game. It does not mean european or american players wont play it. But it is a factor to take into account. Yes people tend to assimilate themselves with the character they play, or the heroes they watch on TV. Not always, clearly not.
The thing with the.......you know whats (I'm not sure the Algorithm wouldn't delete my comments even just mentioning them by name.) is to just retcon them into Southern Halflings, I think an idea they were playing with is make them Incan esque and ride Cold Ones, maybe make them Friendly or at least Amicable with the Lizardmen, that might work.
I really don't see this happening unless they actually make a racist caricature faction. If they just involve some African historical experts there is a ton of real stuff to draw from stylistically. There is a long history of large-formation infantry and even cavalry fighting in Sub-Saharan Africa pre-colonialization.
I personally would love some more human factions, even minor factions would be cool, and they should be spread around the world, Lustria, New World, South Lands, Nippon Kuresh, Ind, maybe some pirates, or different norscan tribes. There is sooo much potential there.
Given the racism you can find in the community quite easily, even in the comments section on this video I just saw, its not unexpected. However I think its one of those things where they should just bite the bullet and do it. The culture war nonsense from some who would cry "forced diversity" would do nothing but give CA and Games Workshop positive PR by standing up to those types.
I think the Mali-like Arabyan culture, like we have now, is fine. But alas, GW didn't want that to be a faction (then again hearing how CA struggled to create Direfin, I can why there could be problems with it).
I've had this idea for a while now about another Total War DLC that would never happen. Basically, GW/CA can retcon the whole racist pygmy imagery by claiming that those were goblins that had painted themselves with black tar in order to infiltrate the hidden cities of the southlanders. The idea is that southlander oracles knew about the end times a long time ago, and took their people into hiding. Deep in the forest, they have been preparing for the final battle by building a secret society with a powerful military. There are sooooo many African myths, legends, and cultures they can pull from and create an awesome full roster with unique mechanics and gameplay. Also, unlike Ind where beastmen are worshipped and feared, I think this faction could have either domesticated or intelligent (jungle) beastmen that fight on their side and lead their armies. Imagine armored gorillas or rhinos charging the front lines, or cheetahmen flanking from the sides with spears. I wish.
I don't think that's such a good idea, part of the problem is that pygmies are a real ethnic group who are marginalised in Central Africa, and having the "solution" to stereotyping basically be saying that they're actually evil creatures in blackface is just not it. They'd be better off just ignoring the whole issue.
@@kapitankapital6580 pygmies are real yes, however how Warhammer depicted them they looked like a racist cartoon parody.....there are better ways to represent Africa considering the long military history it has and how diverse the continent is.
@@s7robin105 That goes for the LGTBQ and all the other left leaning/woke people. They're less than 0,5% of the human population but they act like they run the world. The huge majority of people don't like or accept forced inclusivity in films, games, TV series and books, like it's common to do in the last 7-8 years. GW being english and the english being one of the most racist people in the world and the most racist people in Europe to this day, would only give the light of day to factions like these just to get the money from the people, not because they give two shits about their culture or race, lol
I would like to put my two cents in this because the comments are starting to flow with very typical anti-SJW stuff and even some racism. Yes, GW would have to tread carefully when designing a fictional-fantasy black African culture. But no, it is not because of 'sensitive people' or whatever. Warhammer typically portrays its cultures with very over-the-top and stereotypical traits. This can be harmful when portraying Southlanders if you consider that African culture is constantly portrayed negatively and harmfully as the result of hundreds of years of Imperialism means that yes, If Games Workshop fucks up, they can do harm (and have, see Pygmies, and the fact that someone in the comments immediately compared black culture to Savage Orcs) The reason things like 'Wakanda' was well received by black communities was not because it was perfect or utopian or whatever (which was cringey) but because it was one of the first time a black culture that had nothing to do with white influence was given light. So yes, I think adding the Southlanders in Warhammer if done well and with good advice from African cultural experts, would be very well recieved. Just like Cathay
Nice comment, totaly agree and would like to complete. When you see the current state of the game. And with the noticeable exception of Cathay in game 3. All part of the Warhammer world that are equivalent of parts of our world not populated by white people, are mainly populated by monsters/non humans races (Rats, Lezard, Ogre and orcs, Vampires being located in Romania, to be linked to racism against Roms communities?) (and even if non white humans exist in those parts of the Warhammer world, there are so forgotten, or not mentioned that it does not change the general picture) The depiction of the world made by GW is a good illustration, most likely totally inconscious, of "good old racism". I dont find surprising that racist people compare black culture to orcs, ad it is almost implied in this fantasy world. I recommend people to read what the fantasy author N.K. Jemisin wrote about the notion of having races like "orcs" in a fantasy setting.
Actually I´m bored of the human factions in TW WH Empire, Bretonnia, Norsca and Cathay i want more different looking human factions in the game and Dogs of war is not going to fill that spot.
I'd love them to make it so Southlanders are basically Fantasy Wakanda with Old One tech instead of vibranium. Then make it so the real origin of the Amazons is that they were a tribe of Southlanders who accidentally transported all their village’s women to Lustria while trying to make an Old One teleporter work. And with no way to get back, they basically built their own community there. Same race as far as TWW is concerned, but you'd have multiple Southlander LLs in Southlands, and one Amazon one in Lustria.
I'd rather they just derive from the actual peoples living in the Sahel, Congo or other regions of Western and Central Africa. It is a criminally underrated area in terms of historical representation. The peoples of the West African grasslands have a long history of horsemanship and a lot to offer mythological (A Southlands faction would not be want for unit types). Some Zulu flair from South Africa would be welcome. While I could stand some Lizardman tech (just makes sense given their proximity), I doubt humans would know how to reverse-engineer it to the degree they could be considered a "fantasy Wakanda" without it seeming incredibly contrived or unfitting and leaning way, way to close into the terrible and overplayed Humanity Fuck Yeah trope.
@@arnauddelaclos3221 First of all blatantly untrue, Africa currently has a heavily urbanized population and, though poor, does possess small middle-classes throughout its countries that can "gasp" afford Western media such as video games. I have met a lot of African gamers in my time, you can find plenty on Steam. Nobody has to do anything. Don't presume that I'm some kind of a woke, "Political Correctness" dipshit. For example, I agree that blackwashing the canonically white Amazons, who are Greek anyways in terms of their mythological origins, would be wrong.
they would make a interesting dlc playing a more tribe like humans using more crude weapons with animal companions like hyenas i would give another interesting themed human faction
Now you see these are the terrible consequences of the Asur not accepting their true Phoenix King Malekith, humans have spread out of control, and infest almost every corner of the Warhammer Fantasy world. Thus we can clearly see the reason the Skaven and Druchii can coexist is since the Druchii are fighting one invasive species with another.
@@Gilga1 so people in the middle east are like chaos dwarfs and ogres IRL very interesting thank you . Its based on our world , which show a bit of lazyness in the création of the univers thats it Does native american are minautor ? Like in world of Warcraft ?
@@arnauddelaclos3221 dude you’ve commented on so many different comment with slightly different positions, you have no honesty and you would type anything out to alleviate your weird frustrations. What you are doing is actually pretty wild, please one day take some time out sand reflect just a little bit on your ideologies and what led you here.
@@arnauddelaclos3221 first it is a fantasy setting which basically means inspiration/influence does not equate to being identical to the real world (thus giving liberties to design any unique culture without it being historically inaccurate) and it doesn't matter if the race is human or non-human, second there is a thing called world building and variety which is needed for every fantasy setting to make it interesting to begin with.
These people were made canonically extinct in 4th or 5th edition? They just can’t survive in the jungles of the Southlands where the Lizardmen and Savage Orcs dominate the land. This lady at best lives in territory around Sudenburg. There can’t be humans everywhere in the Warhammer World. If Humans can live everywhere the big bads can’t be that bad, it can’t be that dark, and it can’t be Warhammer. The Amazons are an extremely small group living out of a single large settlement and a handful of minor settlements in a small portion of Lustria. I liked that they wrote the humans of the Southlands, and the Pygmies, out of the lord as being made extinct by the Lizardmen, Savage Orcs, and Beastmen that dominate the Southlands. Make some areas of the world… dominated by the “monsters”.
The Fell Cargo novel he metioned was released in 2006, past 5th ed, and in my opinion, I don't see how humans living in the wild places of the world takes away from the setting. The "monsters" still greatly outnumber them, they are surrounded by hostile forces, and just having them go extinct in a paragraph doesn't really add anything interesting to the setting, maybe if we actually got detailed accounts on how they were before and during their demise, now that'd be lore worth reading.
Wanted to cover something different today cos I like going into older lore! Would be nice to see the return of these guys again tbh
trash vid
I'd love them to make it so Southlanders are basically Fantasy Wakanda with Old One tech instead of vibranium.
Then make it so the real origin of the Amazons is that they were a tribe of Southlanders who accidentally transported all their village’s women to Lustria while trying to make an Old One teleporter work. And with no way to get back, they basically built their own community there.
Same race as far as TWW is concerned, but you'd have multiple Southlander LLs in Southlands, and one Amazon one in Lustria.
Yeah, having the Southlanders be some kind of fantasy version of Wakanda mixed with the aesthetics of the Zulu (probably the most well-known African ethnic group to British people) could be pretty cool. Maybe they could ride quaggas instead of horses and use rhinos as living tanks and own tamed cheetahs & hyenas as hunting companions. There's a lot of neat potential if they just put in the effort.
I adore these dives into old lore of a gamer who grew up in the Old World. Love it!
@@Serpentking789 Probably the best known are the Zulu but also Ethiopia! Schools sometimes cover the Italian invasion of Ethiopia so could also be done, though we don't see much of its culture through it unfortunately.
As a middle easterner i’d love Araby, although im afraid CA might be afraid of the backlash.
There would only be actual backlash if they handle it poorly but seeing the track record for faction reimagining and creation so far I’m assuming it will be pretty good
As a non middle easterner i would love to have Araby.
The Arabs irl are so fucking badass. Youngest Culture Group In History, last proper desert hinterland barbarians (mean that as a compliment) left, preserved the knowledge that let Europe become great. Glorious opportunity for stories.
Yea araby, tilea, and estalia are on the top of my list rn for factions that I desperately want.
I’m a sucker for estalia/tileas Italian and Spanish aesthetic but I have to admit that I think araby could bring some much needed diversity to the game.
I’m pretty familiar with European history and mythology but I can’t say the same when it comes to Arabic history and mythology. So, I see this as an opportunity to adapt new and interesting creatures and aspects from Arabic folklore that I’ve never heard of before
It's a shame so much fiction has been limited by fear of backlash. It does these cultures an injustice, saying that they can't be explored for fear of how the perpetually-offended might respond.
The Southlands still have enough room to accommodate additional new races. Fantasy variants of Kush, Great Zimbabwe or also Zulus could meaningfully expand the Warhammer world; if you do it right!
I need a “Southlanders mentioned” version of the “Brazil mentioned” meme. I want these guys in-game so much!
African kingdoms are so diverse that there is no need to default to the Zulu aesthetic. Ethiopia and Mali come to mind. Personally I would want them to like the kingdom of Benin. Their armor looks cool. The Nubians are cool too. A diversity of kingdoms would be nice.
It would be awsome.
My thought exactly, we're too used to the "tribal imaginary"
Or Great Zimabwe
@@GermanOlle Exactly. The possibilities are endless.
@@zacmarulo8721 Yeah... Fantasy Kush and Fantasy Great Zimbabwe south of Nehekhara, some cool Fantasy Zulus, too! I don't need "these pygmies" from the 80es. XD
I want every possible human culture in Immortal Empires. The draw of Warhammer Fantasy is that it's always been history-adjacent.
I would LOOOOVE for them to be incorporated, they can take inspiration from Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, The Zulu, Yoruba, Nubia, Mali, Songhai, Benin etc Africa has lots of lore and interesting mythology and as a black person this would be lit
I agree.
Same😊
There is far more than one culture for the continent of Africa left widely underrepresented in the West. I think this could be awesome
As the Southlanders are not a unified nation and as far as we know there are many tribes, I think it would be safer to assume that the most frequent traders and travelers to the Old World are those from the more northerly tribes. These people are closely related to the Araby Sultanate, either because they are vassals or because through trade they have adopted certain aspects of their culture. Personally, in TOW I think the most likely thing is that if an army of Araby shows up one day (perhaps in a supplement where the Land of the Dead is also explored, since initially they will only focus on Khemri) we will see Southlanders either reflected in some unit from the army list or even as subfaction rules.
The avoidance of Araby and the Southlands along with similar taboos in wider fiction to prevent offending people is honestly offensive in itself.
It says that those cultures are not worth the risk of exploring, their people too hysterical and threatening to even portray without fear of reprisal or campaigns of artificial outrage. It's a regressive attitude in modern media and it should be resisted by creators.
Similar to Nippon and Japan or Cathay and China The Southlands could have some awesome African inspired Monstrous Units. I would love to see a Warhammer Grootslang.
War elphants, great bombards, flying carpet units and dudes with curved swords. Gib.
That would be awesome.
Very much so yes.
@@Astrothunderkat that's araby
I would love a Zulu inspired army for Warhammer.
Maybe some war elephants? Mumakill kinda shit?
@@acewatt2737 Elephants would be cool, but I'd like to see creatures from African mythologies like Ninki Nanka, Aigamuxa and Kongamatos.
@@swedishdiktator aigamixa would be kinda weird but cool to have, and the other two absolutley would be awesome to have
@@swedishdiktator kongamoto riders would be cool
Honestly I would love to see southlanders. One of the major charms of Warhammer Fantasy is seeing it apply its brand of fantasy on to real world cultures. While yes there are going to be people saying things about it on one side or another, I still think it would be super cool. As someone who for a long time didn't really have any good represntation in WFB prior to TWW3, I think it can only enrich the setting more. Its also not like there's some other major faction that Southlanders would be "pushing out". Plus there is a ton of things to draw on.
Given the means in which Cathay/Kislev have been fleshed out, the idea of a Southlander cultural group would have to have its own interesting intersection with its neighboring forces/factions, and I think the most interesting way to present them would be as a kinder mirror to Norsca - i.e., these are a people nearer to the Southern Chaos Wastes, who have always lived with the presence of the Lizardmen, and who have Dawi neighbors. Rather than serving daemons and falling to their corruption, they have their provings by slaying daemons and displaying their resilience to corrupting influences.
They could look upon the colonial ambitions of the Empire/the Asur and see both as peoples who bring with them only the potential to be consumed by Chaos. It'd be interesting if they actually properly disliked the Asur, both as an alliance with the Dawi of the Southlands but also because whenever the Asur show up there is a rise in more Slaanesh-aligned terrors coming up from the Southern Wastes.
Sort of like Kislev, in the 'we are your bulwark' mentality, but rather viewing themselves as a whetstone and a blade against the darkness. They never asked for help, and by all accounts they're doing a much better job in the South than humanity in the north with regards to keeping it all from destroying existence. Could also frame them in a neat intersection with Araby/Nehekhara, - the Southlander does not fear death because they have proven themselves in life doing the only things that truly matter - and thus one raised by a Tomb King necromancer is just a shell; and one who comes back of their own will is back because more of the great work must be done before again they may know the long silent embrace. Let Araby and Bretonnia fight; they are too concerned with pageantry - their festooned garments mean nothing.
As for cultural coding, that'd have to be really handled by people able to ensure proper appreciation for the most metal/cool aspects of the cultures they wish to draw from.
Well there still needs to be more context for Araby as well, but for one thing the Southlands is a conglomeration of Africa, an umbrella term like how people use Africa today to suggest the whole continent is just one country. Which is an issue for me not just being a black person but also being somebody at least fairly observant of geography, as well as a budding Warhammer fan. They don't even diversify between different; clans, kingdoms, nations, tribes, cultures, subcultures, etc. And there's close to no info whatsoever. Even the old models for Nippon and others had some lore attached that was a bit more concrete. But nothing at all for the Southlands. Which is crazy since you would think there might be as much grimdark and barely “getting by” levels of order against chaos going on. In fact the Southlanders would probably have an ongoing blood fued with armies of mutants and substantiated breeds of them like the Beastmen and the Skaven. But there's nothing about that either. Hell, the Halflings get more references than any Southlanders, there's no mythical mentionings like the Tigermen of Ind or the Serpentmen of Khuresh. And for another thing, the Southlanders would probably also have ongoing strife with the Dark Elves and Tomb Kings. How they could or would be effected by Chaos however, I don't know. Because of the dense vegetation of the forests, jungles and swamps, maybe the plant life themselves can be a bit apathetic to them? 🤔. Like the Ruinous Powers planted evil seeds or something and that taints the already choking levels of greenery with chaos spawned monsters, mutants from humans that ate their tainted fruit, or even just the trees themselves planting demons or other twisted growths in the Southlands. Also the Nubians should be a thing, like The Best (human) archers around. History credits them with this. So if there is a region like Nubia in the Southlands they should probably be like the Desert Gateway or something. Meaning nobody just “passes through” their terf without getting pincushioned by spears, arrows and maybe even riddled with bullets. Basically like the Kislev and/or Grand Cathay of the Southlands. For all we know they could be something warding off the realm of chaos from enveloping the world similar to the Vortex in Ulthuan or more like that ritual site in Albion which caused the fall of the human society, geographical transformation as well as mutation of the wildlife and the degeneration of the giants. And I'm not trying to put it all on GW because I know that they're working with a lot as it is. But having said that they could definitely allocate some writers or hire some new ones to elaborate more on the Southlands, get Tolkien-esque with it like how the kingdoms of men were largely in the Southwest until they started expanding a bit more northwest-wards (which I guess would lead into the Easterling territories across the desert, and while he didn't talk about it a lot there is an Africa like region in the Middle Earth world called Umbar. Of which the Shadow of War games elaborate to a bit with the character Baranor whom was mostly raised in Gondor and became a knight captain in it (which is nothing to scoff at, even Talion - The main player character, was a watch captain of the Black Gate) his mercenary brother Serka.
would love a southland faction, so many great cultures to be inspired by, but also a great fauna for an army! gimme hippos, rhinos, elephants, crocs, buffalo minotaurs, lion chariots, were-hyenas, ostrich riders , zebra cavalry and gorilla warriors 😍
Backlash could best be acoided by bringing in African people with relevant knowledge and consulting heavily.
Also dont make them a totally evil faction like araby mostly was. They should be one of the gray factions like the empire and cathay rather than norsca. I think the results would be great
the southlanders have potential to be an interesting group in either the tabletop or in the total war game as long as it's awesome
I think the Southlanders deserve to be fleshed out. Disclaimer: The idea of giraffes in the jungle doesn't make sense. CA should consider adding grasslands to the Southlands geography.
Up next, the pygmies!
One of GWs worst ideas
Aahhrrgg I forgot those exist, I don't even wanna know what was going on in the mind of the person who wrote that rule book 💀
Zulus would be amongs my last choice, maybe as part of a faction, like the Cult of Ulrik in the Empire for example. It would be rather limiting.
Not for all Southlanders though. There are so many myths and kingdoms to take inspiration from.
They should make more of Southlander and Araby in a responsible way❤❤ love more lore☺️❤
Southlanders would be awesome, coming from a African and WH fa. Hey could be awesome and far more tasteful if made today
They're more than likely in Marienburg somewhere. Likely in their own corner of the massive city like everyone else from Tilea to the Dwarves to Cathay to Araby to Ulthuan. It's basically like their New York City - a little bit of everybody is there 😂🤷🏾♂️😂. And I'd definitely see them having a bit of a love-hate with the Lizardmen. Having a more rival-like relationship rather than being straight up enemies. And as we know the Lizardmen are constantly searching for clues and plaques related to the Old Ones' - Great Plan that they had for the Old World/Known World. Which would bring them into conflict with everyone because of how dogged they are in their pursuits, even with potential allies against chaos. Much like the Tech-Priests or Kin/Leagues of Votaan in 40k whenever they find tech or resources that they basically don't wanna share with anyone else. But more than once they've probably fought alongside them too, especially against hated enemies like Chaos Worshippers, Demons, Beastmen and Skaven. Basically like how the Imperium will shake hands in a begrudging truce w/ the Aeldari of some craft world clan if the galaxy is threatened by the Necron. Or even that one time when the Silent King himself supposedly parlayed with the Blood Angels. So it would stand to reason that the Southlanders would occasionally work with the Lizardmen instead of against them. Certain tribes or kingdoms might even trade what relics from their ancient mesoamerican style culture that the Southlanders might find to the Lizardmen in exchange for gold or something else like learning some Slaan magic spells or help with construction.
There's probably like 3 major tribes and about 7 or so significant powers in general, each one a nation with about 20 or so villages to each faction. The 4 smaller ones would be like Tilea and Estalia in the Old World, basically saying; they're around but not as much as said about them since the setting mostly centers on the Empire of Man, Dwarves and Elves. But Tilea and Estalia are getting more lore and we should expect the same, as well as model units in the future that would be more distinct to them rather than a mixture of like German-esque culture with French and Italian Renaissance period subcultural undertones like the clothing, mannerisms, interests in trade and courtships, etc.
Could draw some inspiration from the Nubian and Numidian people's, as well.
A cool inspiration for the Southlanders at least in my opinion would be the Kingdom of Benin, they can a or a collection of costal kingdoms or city states, and Benin has a very cool looking armor that doesn’t seem to have any outside inspiration and would give them their own unique style
*sees subject* Oh for f*ck sake both 'those sides' are gonna have a field day with this.
So far you're assessment has proved accurate.
After reading the comments I feel the need to remind people lore is not real history, it isn’t set in stone. You can just rewrite them to not be insensitive and kinda yikes. The Warhammer world is quite literally a fantasy version of Earth and different peoples do represent real life humans and making them caricatures because Warhammer is very focused on societies as a whole rather than individuals it makes it seem that you’re saying those people are inherently that way. When was the last time we saw a non violent maniac Dark Elf? By pure statistical probability some of them aren’t like Malekith because individuals are people and aren’t just what their race or faction overall is. DnD has already acknowledged that people are a product of their society not just born the exact same.
Yeah, while I generally bemoan attempts to rewrite canon to conform to whatever shades the "Political Correctness" crowd is spinning at any given time, there are serious exceptions. On the topic of Southlands lore respectively...yikes. A well-done Sub-Saharan African faction that fit well into the setting's "grimdarkness" (one of my only problems with modern Cathay and, to a lesser extent, Kislev is how goody two shoes they are relative to the Empire) and depicted the people as humans like those of the Empire or Kislev would be a dream come true for me as a West African history nut.
I just hope Games Workshop would actually derive from Sub-Saharan cultures (a Sahel peoples' like faction with some Zulu aesthetics would be rad), rather than be tempted to make a "fantasy Wakanda".
@@Hosheyakozilla yes, to clarify I don't think they should be written out or anything. They can do a well written sub-Saharan African faction and I would love if they did, they just need to make sure they don't pull a 80's Warhammer thing where they take random things from that culture and throw it in with occasional stereotypes. I am likely what a centrist would consider to be in the "political correctness" crowd and honestly 2016 youtubers that took people out of context and made us sound nuts have poisoned the well so much that its hard to get anything done regarding actual issues regarding representation.
@@nepoleon92 Agreed.
I remember something about Southern Arabyans being akin to Southlanders in appearance (Cities of Ka-Sabar, Songhai, as well as the Taylif, Aethiops and Zamesi tribes).
I personally would love if they added more African style cultures, kingdoms and Empires inspired the wealthy Malians, to the sea-faring Swahili and and on.
Same for Hinterlands of Khuresh.
Would love a Legendary Lord to be based on Tseode, an exiled bastard prince who taught his mother’s tribe the secrets of metallurgy and canoes and founded a culture group.
I'd really love voodoo inspired units for a southlander faction.
When I saw the pigmies the first time I just felt yikes!! but a Yoruba, Zulu or mali faction would be cool
I’m all for some southlander content one day, the beauty and fun of Warhammer is in adapting aspects of real world cultures and turning them into insanely fun and over the top fantasy equivalents.
Many European cultures have received this treatment so I’m all in favor of African themed factions. I’m sure there are lots of gamers around the world who would love to see their cultural identities get some representation in Warhammer and as a history and mythology nerd I’m all for it.
I’m sure there’s plenty of creatures in African folklore that are quite unlike the typical gryphons and dragons that we are familiar with, and I welcome that variety and creativity👌
It would be so ducking cool to roll out in total warhammer with an army of seahorses, or even have regiment of renown zoulou warriors. It might be really tricky to adapt it in a way that wouldn't ruffle any feathers, but if it gets done it would be really nice.
I mean so long as the feathers ruffled belong to the bigots and not real world Africans ruffle away I say.
Fell Cargo pre-dates Man O War: Corsair by a while.
Maybe it was re-release?
African culture is so ripe for awesome fantasy interpretations. Fantasy Kush or Zulus would be amazing.
Finally! I asked many times for this video! Thank you so much!
I would love a Soughtlanders human faction and Dogs of War.
do Southlanders cooperate with southland ape beastmen? combined you could rise a valid faction. we already need more settlements in the south east southlands. maybe this can be a classic horde?
From what I've heard so far (along with this video) about the Southlands I suspect that the Southlanders exist in various small Kingdoms and tribes loosely based on the people from Zaire and the Congo. They would probably be competing with the apemen, greenskins and lizardmen. They might tame elephants and other beasts of burden along with dinosaurs. There might be some tribes that perform cannibalism as it's mentioned in the lore that the first ghouls were descended from evil cannibal tribes from the Southlands and with that in mind there might be some ghouls in the Southlands. I'm also going to take a wild guess and say there might be some pygmies there too.
The thing is a lot of the lore has been retconned or forgotten and maybe retconned in the future.
A lot of "southlander" or African-inspired cultures are present in Araby for example so we know there are influences on Araby within the lore, at the same time we also know that the Pygmies while not officially retconned were also kind of forgotten about and are only really in Lustria weirdly enough.
As for the Ghoul lore I never heard of that, interesting stuff.
Unfortunately they would have to consider real world consequences when handling this. They would balance on the edge of a knife, on one hand falling into embarrassing over-corrections, and unintentional insults on the other.
Indeed. No matter how they would present the southlanders, they would be attacked hard from all sites.
What insults, for example?
@@worlddd7777 Nice bait, buddy.
It’s absolutely fucking horseshit. Just do what they did with all the human races. Pick a real culture group, make their hats bigger, make their legends real, give them some sort of big monster to ride as a mount, boom Faction. If they can make China and Russia and Germany and France and Scotland/Ireland and Scandinavia and the Mongols why can’t they make Africa? Why? What fucking reason can they not? Cause Africa is more primitive than other races? That would add to the badass. Humans powerful enough that their bronze weapons can kill a man in steel armor and survive diseases and beasts that would fell an Old World hunter in hours.
That is precisely why if they are going to risk something it will be with Araby, of which there is already a lot of background and a Warmaster army list, and not properly in the Southlanders as an independent entity. In that case there might be a southlander unit on Araby's army list, or maybe subfaction rules for the army to represent the nomads south of the Sultanate.
Zebras are in the Blood Bowl universe at least the first umpire wore a Zebra Skin.
I would like if the Southlanders Will look like a mix of Ethiopians and Malian Empire, with padded armor, short and straight Sword, long mace with bronze head, and throwing knife. Maybe a civilizated /tribal Hybrid roster, like the normal orcs and savage orcs, with tribal skirmisher equipped with javelin,sling and throwing weapons,and civilizated medium infantry with War Elephant and armoured Rhino. What did you think ? (Please,not zebra or Hippo riders , Is HIGH Fringe.) And Lore of Life and Beasts.
Would love to see Leopoldheim in the southlands.
Cringe. Crow up.
I hope if GW (or Cubicle 7) ever does cover the Southlanders that they don't make them a big kingdom or empire. There's a really interesting vibe in the sub-Nehekharan Southlands, you have Lizardmen who mostly rely on skinks rather than Saurus, and you have savage orcs. I think the humans should be similarly scrappy, living a more brutal lifestyle where everyone has to be capable of fighting in order to make do. I think if you start throwing human empires in down there it loses some of that charm. A big trading city like Timbuktu? Sure. But I don't want some kind of "chief of chiefs" essentially ruling the Southlanders as a faction.
I agree. I think the Southlands would do better as being a catch-all name for a series of petty kingdoms and tribes with similar histories, methods of warfare and cultural traits - kind of like Araby yet with less big cities (a Timbuktu, as you said, here and there would be sweet though).
Timbuktu was the heart of an empire lol. That's a strange view.
Why not both? I want some real nations.
@@cegesh1459 I'm aware Timbuktu was the heart of an empire lol. My point was more that, if we are taking your idea about the Southlands remaining a sort of scrappy and decentralized power seriously, one way this could be achieved would be to make the state organization a little like Araby's albeit with less big trading cities (save, as I said, a pseudo-Timbuktu here and there throughout the Southlands).
Your idea about the presence of real nations being a part of the Southlands, in addition to the tribes and city-states, would be a more ideal and accurate implementation of Sub-Saharan Africa into Warhammer Fantasy. I think you took my phraseology of "petty kingdom" a little too literally (not your fault, I should've been much clearer). I simply meant "petty" as in not as individually large, powerful or urbanized as a major province of the southern Empire, Bretonnia or Cathay (which are stated to, when taken on the whole, be the strongest human nations in the setting).
When I described the Southlands as "catch-all term" for a series of nations, tribes and city-states I wasn't really calling for them, as a hypothetical faction, to be as unified as Bretonnia, the Empire (which isn't all that unified) or even Araby, I was agreeing with you that it would be a terrible idea to unite the Southlands as a single, massive nation under a Grand Chief or some nonsense.
Unfortunately, due to the current sensitivity of the political climate, I don't think that CA/GW would touch the southlanders. Anything short of wakanda would be considered racist.
They can just retcon a lot of their previous culturally-insensitive stuff. They do it all the time, even now. And most people don't even care for the old lore. Why not retcon to make a proper Southerlander faction that all people can enjoy?
That's exactly what they SHOULD do though. A fantasy Wakanda, but with unearthed Old One tech instead of vibranium.
@@TheNorth15 why every univers need inclusivity and absolutly all humans représentation, so weak
@@arnauddelaclos3221 Because it's cool? All Warhammer lore is based on the real world and Africa has a lot of mythology and culture to pull from like Cathay and Kislev. Don't include your silyl politics in Fantasy.
@@teaman1275 every fictionnal univers does it , world of warcraft , DnD and it always go for the worst .
Suckin the univers to gain a few people who absolutly want themselves in the univers .
Pure Weakness , madness
When you here settra and khalida's voice. It kind of makes you think, about the factions you're talking about.
I wouldn't mind having that Keiti gal as a model, would be a nice item in a "warhammer legendary figures" shelf lmao
What very little information was ever available on them (and that wasn't outdated 80s nonsense) pushes a South African aesthetic. There was a fun fan supplement for one of the RPGs that compiled what limited information was available and ran from there, giving them a mixed Zulu and Swazi culture, albeit with religious inspiration coming more from West/Central Africa.
For all that there's lots of inspiration to draw across the continent, I think they should be careful not to just jam it all together. There's a reason the Empire, Bretonnia, Tilea, and Estalia are separate places instead of one pan-European faction, and Africa is a lot larger than Europe. Fortunately even if they just stick with South Africa there's lots to draw on between Zululand, Swaziland, Great Zimbabwe, Monomatapa, and even the southerly parts of Kongo.
Native Americans in naggaroth would be cool.
They already are
@@VikingWeShallGo saddly they are chaos
@@stefanbacvanin5001 Was thinking in general, any living beeing not a dark elf, would be working for them.
@@VikingWeShallGo The og centaurs represent native americans. They are distinct from beastmen and are good creatures.
Much like Araby, I expect the current political climate may prevent them from doing this. Why invite the scrutiny from groups who will find fault no matter what? From all sides..
I don't understand this political climat thing.
A Scheherazade inspired Araby would be awsome.
It has nothing to do with our real world.
I am not upset with Kislev as a slav.
It has Russian, Ukrainien, Khazar, polish mix and nobody is upset.
@@michaelpetrovich5353 It's not actually the people from those places that would get offended. It's the neo-Nazi crowd who would get mad at their being black people in Warhammer. As evidenced by quite a few comments under this video, and the storm of racial bigotry that got hurled at a mod that randomized skin colour (the moment the n-word came out, and it did, claims of defending the lore were revealed as hollow excuses).
Now personally, I'm all for offending bigots, so I say bring on Araby, the Southlands, etc.
@@KartarNighthawk well to hell with them.
Araby and the black kingdoms of the South lands have been part of the warhammer lore for a long time and i want them in the game.
@@michaelpetrovich5353 I'm all in favour of that too. If it runs a bunch of alt right trolls away from the game I won't miss them at all.
heads up. there will be a lot of racism in this comment section
Heads up, you're on the internet
@@vyrxirian7139 Heads up. That doesn't make it any less cringe to be racist
I've scrolled through and found none. I have found people predicting your kind of comment though. I see people generally saying, as i do, "I want these, but because people will always find fault, it won't happen". Is this incorrect?
@@TheOriginalFishPond There is currently a comment with 18 likes comparing Orks and Africans. so its for sure here.
@@s7robin105 I mean if it's a joke and you still get mad, whose fault is that? Also if the idiot is legit being racist, who gives a fuck? Why even give him the attention/energy and feed him more?
Main reason I think they're ignored and underdeveloped is in large part because of how segments of the community can be, well.. racist. If Games Workshop worked and put enough effort into southern humans with research of cultures and concepts to work with it could work but then the conflict starts where the bad apples show their hand and damage the overall image of the series and brand consumers. Its a lot like when the far right latches onto 40k without understanding its a satire and not an endorsement of the ideas in the universe.
Nice comment. Because of racism and also because I dont think central and south African countries are a market at all. And I believe that any extension or DLC based on black people would sell less unfortunately. However, I dont think there would be backlash if the topic is researched properly and in a respectful way, avoiding typical tropes/prejudices we always see in fantasy when talking about the huge varities of black African cultures.
But to summarize, you have : sensitive political topic, meticulous researches required and potential less profit to make. It gives me enough reason to think it will never happen any time soon.
@@Styerson I disagree. Not every faction is about marketing to someone. I have no German heritage, no relation to France yet I like the factions. Same with Cathay and Kislev. If a faction is well designed it will get people who like it. Personally I say they should bite the bullet because overall it would give them positive PR and grow the community as well.
@Styerson British history isn't really in Warhammer at all despite being it's largest audience. Well, you could count the Arthurian elements of Bretonnia...
But anyway I think as long as they make it cool, it will sell. People don't need a specific connection to Africa
@@s7robin105 I dont know any lizardmen alive, so I guess the lizardmen race was created for non lizardmen people @_@ so I guess you are right :P
More seriously, what I want to say is that of course target market is important. We have more game focusing on Chinese culture lately as you have a growing chinese middle class that enjoy this kind of game. It does not mean european or american players wont play it. But it is a factor to take into account. Yes people tend to assimilate themselves with the character they play, or the heroes they watch on TV.
Not always, clearly not.
These people could make a really cool addition to the game through mods.
I would even do it myself if I had the necessary knowledge or means to do it.
There's some real cave dwellers lurking in the comments. Just enjoy the video and move on :)
The merchant in WFRP suggests a far more historically based lore than an old Victorian stereotype of Africa. Which is a good thing.
The thing with the.......you know whats (I'm not sure the Algorithm wouldn't delete my comments even just mentioning them by name.) is to just retcon them into Southern Halflings, I think an idea they were playing with is make them Incan esque and ride Cold Ones, maybe make them Friendly or at least Amicable with the Lizardmen, that might work.
Same reason as Araby : a certain group of people would cry "muh racism"
I mean yeah if you portray a race as a caricature that has historical damaging effects I can see why it would be classed as "muh racism".
@@cavemancult1999 this
You come off as someone who thinks the depiction of warhammer pigmies was not racist
@@cavemancult1999 Like Bretonnia?
I really don't see this happening unless they actually make a racist caricature faction. If they just involve some African historical experts there is a ton of real stuff to draw from stylistically. There is a long history of large-formation infantry and even cavalry fighting in Sub-Saharan Africa pre-colonialization.
I personally would love some more human factions, even minor factions would be cool, and they should be spread around the world, Lustria, New World, South Lands, Nippon Kuresh, Ind, maybe some pirates, or different norscan tribes. There is sooo much potential there.
New world colonies and southern realms would be top of the list since they are already in game and have tons of lore. They just need unique units.
This lore matters to me ALOT....
It looks likes they were hunting giraffes...
I hope cubicle 7 works in Leopoldheim if they expand the lore for the Southlands
Cringe
Just like Araby, CA is afraid of adding this race due to potential backlash...
Meanwhile, Warhammer Army Project just added Southlands faction to their version.
Given the racism you can find in the community quite easily, even in the comments section on this video I just saw, its not unexpected. However I think its one of those things where they should just bite the bullet and do it. The culture war nonsense from some who would cry "forced diversity" would do nothing but give CA and Games Workshop positive PR by standing up to those types.
@@s7robin105 Especially if they cooperate with those well-versed in African cultures.
@@nikoladedic6623 100%
Of course the great replacement in the UK is terrible
I think the Mali-like Arabyan culture, like we have now, is fine. But alas, GW didn't want that to be a faction (then again hearing how CA struggled to create Direfin, I can why there could be problems with it).
I would love to see them in TWWH3.
I've had this idea for a while now about another Total War DLC that would never happen. Basically, GW/CA can retcon the whole racist pygmy imagery by claiming that those were goblins that had painted themselves with black tar in order to infiltrate the hidden cities of the southlanders.
The idea is that southlander oracles knew about the end times a long time ago, and took their people into hiding. Deep in the forest, they have been preparing for the final battle by building a secret society with a powerful military.
There are sooooo many African myths, legends, and cultures they can pull from and create an awesome full roster with unique mechanics and gameplay. Also, unlike Ind where beastmen are worshipped and feared, I think this faction could have either domesticated or intelligent (jungle) beastmen that fight on their side and lead their armies. Imagine armored gorillas or rhinos charging the front lines, or cheetahmen flanking from the sides with spears.
I wish.
I don't think that's such a good idea, part of the problem is that pygmies are a real ethnic group who are marginalised in Central Africa, and having the "solution" to stereotyping basically be saying that they're actually evil creatures in blackface is just not it. They'd be better off just ignoring the whole issue.
But I do like like pygmies in war hammer fantasy being Halflings of different race, or sub species.
@@kapitankapital6580 Oh I was not aware that pygmies were real. Thanks for the info!
......So you want to make Goblins do Blackface?
@@kapitankapital6580 pygmies are real yes, however how Warhammer depicted them they looked like a racist cartoon parody.....there are better ways to represent Africa considering the long military history it has and how diverse the continent is.
Love the comments immediately resorting to either cringey anti-SJW whining or just straight up racism
All too common unfortunately. Even if they make up a minority of us.
@@s7robin105 Minority?? Don't be naive and delusional, lol
@@alexduffy7925 Majority of Warhammer fans aren’t hateful people from my experience. A Angry minority is just always the most out spoken.
@@s7robin105 That goes for the LGTBQ and all the other left leaning/woke people. They're less than 0,5% of the human population but they act like they run the world. The huge majority of people don't like or accept forced inclusivity in films, games, TV series and books, like it's common to do in the last 7-8 years. GW being english and the english being one of the most racist people in the world and the most racist people in Europe to this day, would only give the light of day to factions like these just to get the money from the people, not because they give two shits about their culture or race, lol
I would like to put my two cents in this because the comments are starting to flow with very typical anti-SJW stuff and even some racism.
Yes, GW would have to tread carefully when designing a fictional-fantasy black African culture. But no, it is not because of 'sensitive people' or whatever. Warhammer typically portrays its cultures with very over-the-top and stereotypical traits. This can be harmful when portraying Southlanders if you consider that African culture is constantly portrayed negatively and harmfully as the result of hundreds of years of Imperialism means that yes, If Games Workshop fucks up, they can do harm (and have, see Pygmies, and the fact that someone in the comments immediately compared black culture to Savage Orcs)
The reason things like 'Wakanda' was well received by black communities was not because it was perfect or utopian or whatever (which was cringey) but because it was one of the first time a black culture that had nothing to do with white influence was given light. So yes, I think adding the Southlanders in Warhammer if done well and with good advice from African cultural experts, would be very well recieved. Just like Cathay
Nice comment, totaly agree and would like to complete.
When you see the current state of the game. And with the noticeable exception of Cathay in game 3. All part of the Warhammer world that are equivalent of parts of our world not populated by white people, are mainly populated by monsters/non humans races (Rats, Lezard, Ogre and orcs, Vampires being located in Romania, to be linked to racism against Roms communities?) (and even if non white humans exist in those parts of the Warhammer world, there are so forgotten, or not mentioned that it does not change the general picture)
The depiction of the world made by GW is a good illustration, most likely totally inconscious, of "good old racism". I dont find surprising that racist people compare black culture to orcs, ad it is almost implied in this fantasy world.
I recommend people to read what the fantasy author N.K. Jemisin wrote about the notion of having races like "orcs" in a fantasy setting.
Actually I´m bored of the human factions in TW WH Empire, Bretonnia, Norsca and Cathay i want more different looking human factions in the game and Dogs of war is not going to fill that spot.
I'd love them to make it so Southlanders are basically Fantasy Wakanda with Old One tech instead of vibranium.
Then make it so the real origin of the Amazons is that they were a tribe of Southlanders who accidentally transported all their village’s women to Lustria while trying to make an Old One teleporter work. And with no way to get back, they basically built their own community there.
Same race as far as TWW is concerned, but you'd have multiple Southlander LLs in Southlands, and one Amazon one in Lustria.
You want blackwashing on the Amazons ? 🤣
I'd rather they just derive from the actual peoples living in the Sahel, Congo or other regions of Western and Central Africa. It is a criminally underrated area in terms of historical representation. The peoples of the West African grasslands have a long history of horsemanship and a lot to offer mythological (A Southlands faction would not be want for unit types). Some Zulu flair from South Africa would be welcome.
While I could stand some Lizardman tech (just makes sense given their proximity), I doubt humans would know how to reverse-engineer it to the degree they could be considered a "fantasy Wakanda" without it seeming incredibly contrived or unfitting and leaning way, way to close into the terrible and overplayed Humanity Fuck Yeah trope.
@@Hosheyakozilla why Europe have to represent Africa lol ? The only that can play the games are the immigrants not actual africans
@@arnauddelaclos3221
First of all blatantly untrue, Africa currently has a heavily urbanized population and, though poor, does possess small middle-classes throughout its countries that can "gasp" afford Western media such as video games. I have met a lot of African gamers in my time, you can find plenty on Steam.
Nobody has to do anything. Don't presume that I'm some kind of a woke, "Political Correctness" dipshit. For example, I agree that blackwashing the canonically white Amazons, who are Greek anyways in terms of their mythological origins, would be wrong.
Ehhh wakanda is boring
they would make a interesting dlc playing a more tribe like humans using more crude weapons with animal companions like hyenas i would give another interesting themed human faction
:)
Now you see these are the terrible consequences of the Asur not accepting their true Phoenix King Malekith, humans have spread out of control, and infest almost every corner of the Warhammer Fantasy world. Thus we can clearly see the reason the Skaven and Druchii can coexist is since the Druchii are fighting one invasive species with another.
Does every fictionnal univers need représentant ? Inclusivity ?
Cringe
What are you talking about? Warhammer is all about real world representation, brettonia and france for example or cathay and china. Why not africa?
@@Gilga1 so people in the middle east are like chaos dwarfs and ogres IRL very interesting thank you .
Its based on our world , which show a bit of lazyness in the création of the univers thats it
Does native american are minautor ? Like in world of Warcraft ?
@@arnauddelaclos3221 dude you’ve commented on so many different comment with slightly different positions, you have no honesty and you would type anything out to alleviate your weird frustrations. What you are doing is actually pretty wild, please one day take some time out sand reflect just a little bit on your ideologies and what led you here.
@@arnauddelaclos3221 first it is a fantasy setting which basically means inspiration/influence does not equate to being identical to the real world (thus giving liberties to design any unique culture without it being historically inaccurate) and it doesn't matter if the race is human or non-human, second there is a thing called world building and variety which is needed for every fantasy setting to make it interesting to begin with.
These people were made canonically extinct in 4th or 5th edition?
They just can’t survive in the jungles of the Southlands where the Lizardmen and Savage Orcs dominate the land. This lady at best lives in territory around Sudenburg. There can’t be humans everywhere in the Warhammer World. If Humans can live everywhere the big bads can’t be that bad, it can’t be that dark, and it can’t be Warhammer.
The Amazons are an extremely small group living out of a single large settlement and a handful of minor settlements in a small portion of Lustria. I liked that they wrote the humans of the Southlands, and the Pygmies, out of the lord as being made extinct by the Lizardmen, Savage Orcs, and Beastmen that dominate the Southlands. Make some areas of the world… dominated by the “monsters”.
The Fell Cargo novel he metioned was released in 2006, past 5th ed, and in my opinion, I don't see how humans living in the wild places of the world takes away from the setting. The "monsters" still greatly outnumber them, they are surrounded by hostile forces, and just having them go extinct in a paragraph doesn't really add anything interesting to the setting, maybe if we actually got detailed accounts on how they were before and during their demise, now that'd be lore worth reading.
No Pygmies?
Meh.
No.
Can always bring the pyg-southlander back as grimdark, Prestor John, Ethiopian caricatures.
I hope they stay forgotten.
Seethe lol