Marvel's Doing Great!
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- Опубліковано 1 бер 2023
- Doug talks about the big drop in Quantumania's box office and what he thinks the MCU can do to make Phase Five more interesting.
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What are your thoughts on Marvel's phase 4/5 content? Good? Bad? Burnt out?
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People really underestimate just HOW good a year 2008 was in terms of films and superhero movies
Good.
No Way Home was the only legitimately good entry.
The rest of the movies were either mid-level bad or flat out terrible.
The D+ shows were bottom of the barrel. You can tell the people behind them had a clear agenda they wanted to push, and were not at all subtle about how they did it.
I tuned out after Multiverse of Madness, and haven't seen a single entry since.
And I'm totally fine with that.
I just thought it's good that Marvel is trying to do new things but people just whine about change
I checked out of the MCU after Endgame. I did my time, and I'm done with it. Haven't touched anything Marvel since then outside of Black Panther 2 because my mom wanted to take me (you try saying no to your mother). Just *hearing* about all the shit that has come out of phase 4 further validates my decision and gives me zero hope for the MCU going forward. At this point, I'm just a sideliner waiting for this thing to die.
I hope Doug does more of these because they feel like the editorials, something different, different but more than welcome.
I love these vids
I was honestly thinking during the pirates episode this week “most of the reviews have been solid, I really do like when he reviews something he has positives and negatives on” but I was missing the editorials
I was honestly thinking during the pirates episode this week “most of the reviews have been solid, I really do like when he reviews something he has positives and negatives on” but I was missing the editorials
@@LiquidArmProduction Yeah the editorials are some of my favorite NC episodes.
I like this format a lot, feels very personal
What I love about Puss in Boots are the character's arc, you get 3 group perspectives and dreamworks did a great job to cramp those stories in one film.
8:00
2:10 I love how the ghost just exited through the door the moment Doug praised No Way Home as if he was waiting to find out if he would dare to talk bad about it as if he was like "Okay, he gets to live for now"
Chaplin is merciful
@@ChannelAwesomeplease watch K.G.F it is crazy good you will love it
I thought spiderman no way home sucked.
@@briana8088 ok
The movement behind Doug startled me a little and then I was like "oh it's probably Chaplin or Buster" lol
My issue with Phase 4 was that there was just SO MUCH of it. Every time I turned around, there was a movie or a Disney+ show that I “had to” watch in order to understand the overarching story. It got to be overwhelming and I couldn’t keep up. In your comparison of Phases 2 and 4, my takeaway was that Phase 2 was actually manageable for someone to keep up with. Each movie was allowed to breathe and let the audience digest what it meant for the overall story, while letting the characters have the spotlight in their time. With Phase 4, they just kept throwing things at us and I never got the sense that we were supposed to care about Shang-Chi or Wanda and Vision or the Eternals because we just had to hurry up and move on to the next thing.
I used to watch every MCU thing when it came out. But the first time I let myself miss one, it actually felt freeing. Like I wasn’t tied to this franchise anymore. I wasn’t stuck in the cycle of “Just Consume Product” over and over. I watch UA-cam reviews instead. It’s much less of a time sink and I feel like I’m supporting creators who actually give a damn about their audience.
Exactly this. ☝️
They've pumped out so much. I don't have time for all this.
I 1000% agree with this here. I just don't have the time to consume that much content from the one universe.
Not only too much, 99% was either mediocre or just awful, preachy propaganda with unlikable protagonists.
@@AromaBlue exactly, I don’t get how the writing fell off so quickly after far from home (besides no way home)
@@captainpep3 They simply hire people not based on talent, but based on their political beliefs, sexual identity, sex and race.
I think the reason the MCU is being criticized more for Phase 4 and 5 is because people are not comparing it to previous MCU Phases, but other superhero movies.
Logan, Joker, The Batman, The Boys. These are just a few of the superhero properties that MASSIVELY go against the grain and take HUGE risks and they are SO creative. But the MCU are stuck doing the same thing and are doubling down on all the bad aspects of the MCU and modern movies in general.
Cool to see you hear. Big fan of your channel
I definitely agree. I liked very few of phase 4. Most of it was mid to bad. And the mid just felt like a stale rehash of their existing formula
Logan was the most mundane awful superhero movie that people thought was good because of 10 minutes of good action scenes. The soundtrack, cinematography, filming location, the villains were all so bland.
Seriously give it a rewatch. It’s bad.
Logan was a generic Western, The Boys hasn't been actually good since S1, The Batman was a slow slog and Joker was a Taxi Driver wannabe
The Batman is just a competent Batman film that retreads a lot of old territory that has already been explored in previous Batman films, namely The Dark Knight Trilogy. It really doesn’t do much innovating at all. But I suppose in the sea of the same superhero slop for the past decade, it’s not often that we get superhero flicks like this anymore that The Batman happens to look refreshing by comparison. Had it come out directly after the Nolan trilogy in place of Batman v Superman, I guarantee you that people would have viewed it a lot less fondly. It’s a film that benefited a lot from coming out at the right place and at the right time, but in the context of its own franchise, it doesn't offer much in terms of originality.
The problem is that the MCU WAS an experiment, but now it's totally formulaic. They weren't really setting out to make a mass universe of interconnected movies, but they hoped they could tie some things together. Once it was established, once it was a success, that's when they realized how much money they could make. They started cutting corners, they started pushing the envelope, they started cheaping out and now it shows, now people are getting sick of it. They always have to try to milk that last dime and it ends up biting them in the ass.
An issue I've seen people bring up with phase 4 in particular is how it... really doesn't feel like it's building to anything. While, at the same time, having the shows and movies just leading into the next thing rather than being something that can stand on its own as a story. Go forbid you didn't care enough about Wanda Vision to watch it. Now, when you go to watch Multiverse of Madness, you'll have no idea who some of these characters are or what's even happening. Because so many of these things are designed on the assumption that you're a diehard fan that consumes anything Marvel like it's water in a desert.
I think it has the opposite problem. It feels like it's trying to set up multiple different things to the point where many films are completely unrelated. When some projects are setting up the thunderbolts, others are setting up the next generation of avengers, some are focusing on some future mystic based team and some are focusing on the multiverse it feels like everything is 10 years out
@@arthand7672 They literally can't win. They could have jumped out with Kang showing up in Spider-man, the Young Avengers swooping in, and announced 3 X-men movies...then everyone would complain "You didn't build up to it!"
@@joeyjeffrey5892 I'm not complaining too much. I liked a majority of phase 4. My only criticism is that they seem to only be 2-3 movies into setting up these teams after the biggest phase we've had yet. I'm sure I won't be complaining in 10 years if they pull it off
Agree so much with you.
"He's out of line, but he's right."
I think what Green Goblin said in the first Spider-Man makes sense "Despite everything you've done for them, eventually, they'll hate you."
Did anyone notice the door opened at 2:15?! I was like Doug is being haunted 🤣🤣
Cat's gonna do what cats gonna do
@@ChannelAwesome CHAPLIN
@@ChannelAwesome great quote 🤣
Cat in Phase 5
I think what's getting people about this is the amount of things we got in Phase 4 alone has been incredibly overwhelming and it always sucks to see cool ideas not taken full advantage of just to get it out the door, especially with reports that the VFX team apparently wasn't treated well. I admit it gets me too as there has been a lot of stuff that I have yet to see, I too get bugged when someone does ask about continuity when it comes to one of these shows or movies, and with Kevin Feige apparently wanting to let every production, or at least every Disney+ show, take its time so it can be the best it can be, it's become more obvious that the influx was a result of Bob Chapek's management over Disney. That said, I don't feel lost in what I have seen and I think a lot of the reactions come from continued exposure on social media with all the reports and all that, Twitter especially, and a lot of people giving into FOMO. I'm still happy to just watch what I'm interested in not caring about continuity unless it's completely warranted.
Oh all the best VFX teams in California have now just outright blacklisted Disney because of the HORRIBLE working conditions Disney puts them under.
And unreasonable demands for last-minute changes, so they have to scramble to get a months work done in a week, and then it looks like crap, and the VFX team gets blamed and their reputation is damaged.
So no they are just saying. "NOPE! not worth it! There are plenty of other studios who pays just as well and makes us look ten times better."
So now all Disney has left are the shitty VFX studios. Who are still overworked and underpaid, and now "Little Mermaid." looks like crap, and all the underwater shots are dark as hell to cover up the crappy CGI.
This coming out about six months after. "Avatar the way of water." that showed us all how beautiful and BRIGHT underwater CGI can look so.... yeah.... They are screwing themselves over.
And if you wonder why everything looks so dark in Little Mermaid... That's why.... It's to cover up the crap CGI.
W comments
The Biggest things Phase four seemed to lack is Focus and Story>Formula. What are we aiming for, cuz it seemed like we're setting up "street-level" events, Multiverse level events and Cosmic level events. It feels unfocused, experimenting is great but it needs an end goal in mind. We're setting up so many characters that (as unfortunate as it sounds) will be compared to the now retired characters while rushing to the next big bad that will raise the stakes. Past Marvel movies felt contained enough we could focus on the individuals but now we see Cosmic giants and no one is talking about it only for fans to say, "I guess they're used to stuff like this" LIKE WHAT!?!? It's a lame excuse. Phase 1-3 felt personal as most movies tried to tell a story based on the characters values, now it really feels like the K.E.V.I.N. bot in She-Hulk, just formulas to keep everything modern and fresh and it comes off as ingenuine, stop trying to make us laugh and tell us why we should care about the character and stop trying to make them seem better by making the original characters we loved a joke and stupider to make "their replacements" seem ready to take the wheel. Disrespecting the past won't make us respect the future. (if you read my rant, you are a champion and I thank you for your time)
I agree completely. You can take any of the character series from Phases 1-3, watch them back to back and witness the core character's development as a character without needing to watch 15 other movies and 2 seasons of 5 different TV shows just to feel up to speed. As much as I love Spider-Man No Way Home, I can guarantee that if you don't watch the Raimi trilogy, the Amazing duology and the 5 or 6 MCU movies with Holland's Spider-Man in them, you would have absolutely no clue what was happening, and that's kind of the problem with most of Phase 4 and 5 - there's just too much homework required to fully get into any one movie or series.
It's what I've been dubbing the "Bionicle effect" - where a series, franchise or IP becomes too large, complex and dense for potential new fans to get into without devoting significant time to researching or "catching up" on hundreds of hours worth of prior media.
I feel more fatigued after phase 4 than energized and ready for more. I think phase 2 had definite weaknesses, but it had momentum that it was leading to something big. Phase 4 has some great shows and movies but it was more 50/50 for me. It left a lot to be desired.
That's basically how I feel about Phase 4; for every good product that came out, we got two or three bad or mediocre ones.
Frankly, what bothers me about Phase 4 is the blatant micromanaging by Kevin Feige on several projects (Multiverse comes to mind), or the executives hiring the absolute WORST people to write some of these projects. Seriously, whose bright idea was it to give She Hulk to the (obnoxious) Pickle Rick chick!? (And that's coming from someone who actually didn't hate that show.)
I don't think it's too late for Marvel to be salvaged, I think they just need to refocus and remember why people love this franchise instead of trying to get to the next big bad. Especially when nobody asked them to pump out another Saga so soon after the last one.
It’s also the overload of content. Phase 2 was only a few movies about 50/50 and I’d say phase 4 a lot of movies about was 30/70. Phase 4 had more flops by sheer number alone even if you think it was similar to phase 2.
@@kylevernon 👍👍. Nailed it
Honestly I'm a bit "Doctor Strange'd "out in between phase 4 😂😂you win doctor strange..
Back when Phase 2 happened, it took me out of the MCU. The quality wasn't there in some of the movies and I kinda lost interest. I got back on the horse when Guardians of the Galaxy 2 was so well done that it convinced me to watch the others.
I LOVE these random Vlog-esque rant videos. I just love hearing Doug’s thoughts on random things which is why I used to love the vlogs he did for Adventure Time and Steven Universe.
And Gravity Falls as well. Those are still my favorite series of his. I like the more stripped back real thoughts
Great video, as always. To add to your point about the MCU taking inspiration from other films, I believe that "Sonic The Hedgehog 2" is another one that they could learn a lot from. That film has so much heart to it, and despite the obvious tropes featured in it, the characters, story, most of the humor, and the visuals make it so rewatchable and unforgettable.
I was very surprised by how much I enjoyed Sonic The Hedgehog 2. Sure, I definitely liked the first movie and was impressed with the marketing for the second, but I didn't expect it to stand out to me as much as it did, and I honestly consider it my favorite film of 2022. To be honest, I found it to be an underwhelming year for entertainment, as even though I definitely enjoyed a number of films, it was very rare to get those that really impressed me. The only other one I can point to is RRR. With Sonic The Hedgehog 2, I basically consider it the best Marvel movie that isn't a Marvel movie, due to how much it reminded me of certain MCU tropes.
Sonic 2 is awful!
The first movie was good but the second wasn't.
Yes, thank you! I loved Sonic 2 so much!!!
@@franohmsford7548 huge L
And I think a lot of people were surprised by how much money it ended making. It just goes to show people want good movies
I think we needed phase 4 to help them figure out what stories are better in film or on tv.
What I hope they're doing with Kang is using each Variant to explore an aspect of his character (Quirky as a character, Evil as a character, etc.) as a new way of building him up as a Saga villain.
Unfortunately it’s not going to happen.
The guy has legal problems and risks one year in jail and Marvel fired him
This is something that I think not enough people are aware of. At the end of 2019, Bob Iger stepped down as CEO of Disney, and Bob Chapek took over. Chapek then proceeded to take much of the creative freedom away from all their studios (including Marvel), replaced the teams with his banker buddies, and essentially forced Marvel to crank out several projects a year without giving them enough time to properly develop and polish them all. And it does show a bit. By the time Iger came back, Quantumania was FAR into production, so they couldn’t change anything. But just before Quantumania premiered, Iger made the announcement that the creatives are now being given back full control, so the people making the projects will get to decide where everyone goes, and how much of it they make. And there will also be accountability moving forward, and no pointing fingers in terms of why certain projects didn’t turn out well. And since then, Marvel’s already made steps to make sure it can focus on quality over quantity. The Marvels was pushed from July to November. And three Disney plus shows (Echo, IronHeart, and Agatha: Coven of Chaos) were delayed from 2023 to 2024. It may be too late for Phase 4 and Quantumania, but not for future projects. There is reason to be optimistic.
Well said. Very well said. I believe Iger’s return will greatly help Disney and Marvel get back on their feet. Iger may not have been perfect, but he at least knew how to keep the company afloat.
While I do agree with a lot of what you've said, I still think that some of the blame should be put at Feige's feet, particularly for Multiverse of Madness. Who micromanages a project so much the director not only leaves, but your hire someone to write a brand new script while SETS are being built for the already existing script...and then doesn't just go back to said original script when Covid shut everything down!?
Yeah, I agree that Chapek probably fucked up a lot of what Marvel had planned for Phase 4, but let's not kid ourselves, Feige fucked up, too and I hope Iger will holds his feet to the fire on that one like the fanbase is.
Kevin Feige is the one at fault here. It’s not just a few movies that are bad, it’s the overall story it’s building which is convoluted and unappealing.
Job Igor was literally like the Captain purposely steering the Titanic into the iceberg where he then abandoned ship (for, might I add, himself) and left Cheapek at the wheel while the ship is sinking...only to then come back after the ship is three-quarters underwater and proudly announce that he's gonna fix everything and save the ship...even when, at some point during the sinking, everyone, eventually, came to the conclusion and realized that they were screwed as the ship was inevitably gonna sink, and they decided to say *"screw this"* and bail to abandon ship as fast as possible.
Igor is as responsible as Cheapek for getting themselves (and the company) involved in nothing but Leftist politics and annoying social media bullshit which resulted in them steering/driving/ramming Disney headfirst into a minefield blindfolded.
@@Arthus850 Check my comment and you'll realize just how wrong you are.
No amount of you simping and shilling for Disney will stop them from going down in flames worse than the Hindenburg.
Never thought I’d see Critic’s face next to Megan Thee Stallion but here we are
Life has a way
🤣
I think a big problem with current phases is that on top of shows being pumped out on a conveyor belt, the shows don't make you feel like you're missing out, whether that be important information for future films or a characters journey with some of the films feeling like a 1 hour CGI cluster with no lasting consequences on the characters or story.
The reason I liked Shang-Chi was that it was so out there. Like it goes from kung fu underworld to fighting magical dragons. Plus, I loved The Mandarin.
I think the biggest problem with Phase 4 is the quantity of content, due to how inherently interconnected these movies/shows are. If you skip just one, in the back of your head you know that you might have missed something that could be potentially important for an upcoming movie/show... now multiply that by the increased output of Marvel and it just kind of becomes overwhelming. It's a very similar problem to the source material, comics; It can be very daunting for someone who's interested in starting to read comics when they see something that's at issue 400 or something.
I agree. The main problem with the MCU right now is that it's lost that flair of excitement and creativity in people's eyes. Even if they occasionally, like you said, "Dip their toes" in some new ideas, overall most of it has just felt like it's on autopilot and relying too much on what worked before. I suppose sometimes artists need to be knocked down a peg in order get them thinking about how they can spice up their next project. Anyway, I think Doug really hit the bullseye with several points, and I hope Marvel does take some pointers from critics like him
Writing quality is takeing a nose dive too
@@als3022 DEFINITELY writing
@@chasehedges6775The writing is better than most of Phases 1 and 2
@@ShadowSonic2 Iron Man 1 had really good writing
@@chasehedges6775 No disrespect brother, but Iron Man was already filming, and they didn't have a working script. Much of the dialogue was ad-libbed. The finished product is one of my favorite comic book movies, but there's no formula for perfect writing.
Other movie that could help Marvel focus more into story is Everything, Everywhere, All at Once. Specially now that they are trying to deal with multiverse on these phases.
Puss in Boots 2 is clearly everyone’s favorite 2022 animated movie and if it won the Oscar for best animated feature, that would be cool. If not, del Toro’s Pinocchio is a pretty good film too, but I personally felt more for PIB:2
For the record, when discussing Phase 2, I really liked Iron Man 3 and Ant-Man 1. Also, Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy 1 would be in the top five of best MCU movies.
Nah. The franchise should have ended with Endgame. Let the property go dormant on a high note, then resurrect it in ten to 15 years, cash in on nostalgia, make another big run of cool movies.
I put this on like a podcast going out to walk and get groceries, and I am so impressed. Doug, you nailed it all around with this video and I loved it.
Thanks for listening!
Paul is so cool
The fact is Phase 3 marked the end, death or retirement of the original MCU cast. Phase 4 really was about setting up the new or legacy heroes to take their place. So hopefully Phase 5 brings these new characters together in a fun, but satisfying group dynamic.
Except a lot of the legacy heroes suck ass and aren’t even popular in the comics, or as iconic as the ones they’re failing to replace. Kate Bishop is one that works, the rest? Idk.
@@SchmergDergenFunny, folks said the MCU starter characters wouldn't work either. See how they turned out
@@ShadowSonic2 you mean characters with 80 years of storylines to pullback on as opposed to the newer characters 10? America Chavez or Ironheart will never be as cool as Ironman Hulk, Thor, etc.
@@SchmergDergen Legacy characters taking on the mantle have been a thing since the 50’s when Barry Allen took over as The Flash from Jay Garrick, and Hal Jordan took over as Green Lantern from Alan Scott. And just like you, I’m sure older readers were dismissive of the new guard, and then the newer readers were dismissive of Jon Stewart succeeding Hal, Wally West succeeding Barry, Cassandra Cain succeeding Barbara Gordon, Jason Todd succeeding Dick Grayson and Tim Drake succeeding Jason, etc. etc. etc. And yet ALL these characters endured, hell even going mass murderer and then dying didn’t stop Hal Jordan from returning and being redeemed. And it will be the same with the new guard, hell Miles Morales is the lead in what many consider the best Spidey film. You being dismissive of the new cast just because they’re not the ones you know is just you repeating the same mistakes of all the prior generations of comic readers who were always proven wrong in the long run. To quote Battlestar Galactica: “This has all happened before. And it will all happen again.”
@@SchmergDergen Indeed. It's like I can't wait to see judgy snarky Ant-Woman or snarky self-important Iron Heart or Replacement Hawk-Eye or Replacement Black Widow or such. Just too many fresh faces that don't have enough charisma or likability to be moving into things. Only ones we got left is Holland Spidey, Moon Knight, New Cap and Bucky that can carry some stuff, but otherwise....
I absolutely love your content guys! Keep up the amazing work!
Channel Awesome is THE BEST
Marvel Phase 4 is like Disney's early 2000s "Second Dark Age"
Early 2000s was pretty ok in Hindsight but that works
@@chasehedges6775 Yeah, early 2000’s had Emperor’s New Groove, Lilo and Stitch, Treasure Planet, and Atlantis which are all great films. Meanwhile, the triple whammy of stinkers known as Brother Bear, Home on the Range, and Chicken Little were 2003-2005, so mid 2000’s feels more accurate to say.
@@doctordoom85 mid 2000s were Alright too
Are we talking animation-wise? Or Disney collectively?
@@danielbaran4724 Probably both
Kang’s motivation wasn’t to “take over the world”. It was to eliminate every other version of himself throughout the multiverse in order to prevent some kind of massive incursion.
The problem isn't simply Marvel Phase 4 & beyond.... Disney is having problems across the board right now, literally in *every* territory. I think people would have faith they could turn the ship around *if* that weren't the case. Back 20 years ago, they had some issues, but not in the situation they're in now, and *very* publicly.
Problems across the board in literally every territory? This isn't true, Avatar 2 is a smashing success which they are extremely happy with
@@yippykiyay89 They only published that, I think King was referring to in house productions.
@@yippykiyay89 Disney is more than just their film division. Avatar 2 did not make up for all the losses they suffered. They are losing billions and are cutting costs in their film divisions and parks.
Some have thrown the word "bankruptcy" around but that's years away if at all.
But dont assume one films success makes or breaks a company.
Puss and boots is the first movie that I’ve ever gone to see and then as soon as I got home looked to see if you could buy it digitally and just dropped $30 to own it and watch it again the next day
Spiderman was the only bright spot post endgame (for me), though it's basically its own thing.
The big differences between Phase 2 vs phase 4 are compelling main characters and the feel of building towards something. They are really missing Russo bros quality directors too.
Daniel Destin Crettin, Sam Raimi, Ryan Coogler. The Russo Brothers don’t hold a candle to any of those people.
No Way Home is a masterpiece for sure but I also think Shang-Chi was Phase 3 level quality! Really identified with the hero and the villain (Wenwu is actually one my all-time favourite villains now) and the story, visuals and action are really fantastic. Also enjoyed seeing the culture too.
Marvel and Sony try and put in effort when it comes to Spiderman like DC does with Batman (with varying success)
The problem with 4 was too many projects. Each phase was a slow burn because the movies were released like 2 a year. Now its 4 with 5 shows in a year.
Phase 4 should have definitely been more focused on the blip for the first half like Falcon. Not just on earth but rest of space.
Spiderman is a Sony Movie . Disney is Dead.
My biggest issues with the MCU:
1. I kind of just clocked out of it after Endgame. I felt like it was like Return of the King, where it just ends everything on a nice, satisfying note. Would it be cool to find out what would happen to Legolas and Gimili afterwards? Sure. But I don't NEED (for lack of a better word) to see it. I'm kind of ready to move on with something else. That's more of a personal thing than a quality of phase 4 but still important to keep in mind.
2. There's just too many things being released too quickly. I feel like some of the movies/TV shows could have been better if they had more time, but it feels like "we have to make a (insert Marvel character) movie/show because reasons." Plus, I felt like, with the older movies, say what you will, they stood more on their own. Now it's starting to feel like homework, where if you miss one, you're totally confused on what's going on.
3. There's like no direction where is all building up. Before it was Thanos. Now it's like...A bunch of Kangs? Maybe?
I would never downright say that everything is bad in the current MCU (trust me, watch Morbius if you think that) or that i won't see one every once in a while, but I think I'm ready to move on and see something different.
There's no other franchises to move on to. No one's doing anything great. I'm out here cherry picking. I've been interested in the Luke and Ahsoka appearances in the Star Wars projects and I am excited to see Ahsoka.
Absolutely love the straight talk/discussion format. It's like actually having a sit down discussion that helps us makes sense of some of these MCU decisions...
Here's who I want to see as variants of the multiverse: characters from The Gifted (including recasting Andy because of the crap Percy Hynes White did), the "Avengers" members of The Incredible Hulk movies (never watched them but I've seen a video with interviews from the actors), 2005 Fantastic Four, Venom. I haven't watched the rest but Mattfleck Daredevil, the previous two actors who played The Punisher, Johnny Blaze, The Hoff's Nick Fury, a version of The Falcon who CAN control birds. There are so many of them that cameoing in just Secret Wars doesn't feel like enough. I almost don't want them to destroy the multiverse unless they recover their universes. The Arrowverse's Crisis on Infinite Earths ended by recovering only a few Earths and bringing the main shows, two of which taking place in their own Earths, into one universe. Which is what I imagine the MCU will do with the X-Men franchise. What I don't want to do is make them completely separate them from the multiverse and destroy ALL of it.
I absolutely love this log and I can't wait to see if you have any more in the future because I honestly want to see what you think of the MCU nowadays ❤️👍
I love this kind of style. It feels very relaxing for some reason. Hope to see more!
Anyway, I'm all for experimenting new things. I just wanna enjoy good characters and good stories.
Long time lurker popping in to say that I love these kinds of video formats! I'd love to see more deep dives into franchises like these from you in the future!
Same here
they just need to give more payoff. Quantumania was supposed introduce with Kang and his power and yet it was just a teaser for the council of kangs
Good video! I really appreciate your commentary.
So many people are losing their minds over Marvel and I'm just over here chilling. I can feel the fatigue for myself but thats my own issue and I'll deal with it in my own way. Its not that serious to me, cause I have other things that I can focus my time on. I think the phase has been pretty ok so far but I do understand SOME of the criticism and I can only hope that with this much discussion on it, Disney does what it can to improve.
Nah, let it burn and bring marshmallows and popcorn.
Love these type of full analysis videosss!!! Keep it up:)
Infinity War/Endgame is peak MCU imo, but I’ve still been absolutely loving what we’ve gotten after. And yes, that includes Eternals, Love and Thunder, She-Hulk and Quantumania
Same here man. While those examples have their flaws. I can still manage to enjoy them while still acknowledging the flaws that they have. Which is a lot of people should do more often. Acknowledge the good as well as the bad
The best Phase 4 is happening with Kirby right now. It's a slowly evolving game series that does manage to get people constantly excited because it usually hides the most dire, dark and complicated stories JUUUUUST out of plain sight.
Oh yeah, and Return to Dreamland Deluxe is not afraid to make that explicitly known
Doug already looks better then Corey stoll did as Modok
13:11 Started this movie with the plan to stop halfway through and finish the next day.
When the end credits started rolling I thought "I want more."
Phase 1 was great because each new character introduced felt like they added something that the current team was missing. Now in Phase 4, every new character added does everything all the previous characters can do but better and at higher stakes, making each new addition to the team pointless since it makes every member before that obsolete.
I actually also saw phase four as one of experimentation, and expansion. It’ll be interesting to see what phase five comes out with in the build up to the next Avenger movies.
Same. I'm the opposite of Doug. I now think time to experiment was phase four and is over. Now is the time to take what worked in phase four and streamline it in phase five
A major issue with the MCU is the same problem I saw in CW Arrowverse--they're so busy telling us how great the NEXT thing is gonna be that they don't take time to make the CURRENT thing shine. They string us along with hope that *this time* will be better than whatever expectations they set up and couldn't deliver on *last time.* As a result, each movie lacks substance--becoming a series of commercials for the next series of commercials.
Perhaps the broader reason I'm so frustrated with the current projects is because, as a story-teller myself, it kills me to see so much potential fall short. There's so much room to play: with a pantheon of lovable characters capable of interacting in fantastical settings to create unique and exciting stories. But each new installment barely eeks out a passing grade, just to tease another C+ movie. It's hard to get invested in stories that even the story-tellers barely care about.
Then, there's the potential for the money: Disney could feed thousands of children with the funds of just one project. Instead they make a mediocre lump of CGI that was hardly worth $7.50 for the movie ticket. Obviously, I don't blame Corporate Disney for acting like the business that it is and using money to creating products. But for the sheer amount of resources funneled into each, I wish they were *good* products. Next time Disney puts a movie in theaters, I'll give the $7.50 to charity--ignoring the art that does bare minimum to warrant my support and providing a hungry person with a meal. Win, win. :)
Thanks for the video Doug. A breath of fresh air. It's hard to find objective commentary on social media.
The issue here is that we were spoiled with Endgame. So every single property that comes out from now on, if its not this big blockbuster fan service movie like Endgame, people are gonna say they were disappointed. It's why no one talks bad about Spider Man No Way Home. Its also why people complain about Multiverse of Madness. It's either "There weren't many suprises!" Or "The Surprises we got were only in one scene!". People aren't looking at these movies as their own thing anymore. Forgetting that a brand new saga is starting and we need to build up to the more epic stuff.
I thought the larger issue to be pointed out here with that phase 2 comparison, was the fact that they focused on 4-5 solid projects vs Phase 4 where they’re overloaded with way too many projects of variable quality.
The biggest problem I had with Phase 4 is the tone, I feel like certain films needed one more rewrite, or just rewrite certain scenes. My major problem with Thor 4 was that it didn't take it's seriously, and with the God Killer, you sort of have to, the Stormbreaker jokes needed to be cut to give Jane's struggle more time to breathe, and in Antman 3, the moment where Cassie talks to MODOK, they repeat the same line 4 or 5 times. I really liked most of Phase 4, and for the stuff I didn't, I want to, but they missed the potential, I feel like Moon Knight and She-Hulk should have been movies, to streamline the story, and Eternals should have been a TV show, to flesh out the different characters.
Adding on to the experimenting, one of the things I liked about Phase 4 was the castings.
In Phase 2 & 3, a majority of the major actors in these movies are returning actors to the MCU or actors who you know prior to their MCU debut from other big projects. We all knew Chris Pratt as Andy Dwyer before he was Star-Lord. We all knew Paul Rudd as Mike Hannigan or Brian Fantana before Ant-Man. We all knew Benedict Cumberbatch as Sherlock Holmes before Doctor Strange, & many people have wanted him as Doctor Strange because of his performance as Sherlock.
With Phase 4, many of the leads are actors that were very under the radar, newcomers, or actors that not a lot of people knew before their MCU debut. Florence Pugh, Sophia Di Martino, Simu Liu, Meng’er Zhang, Xochitl Gomez, Iman Vellani, Tatiana Maslany, May Calamawy, & Tenoch Huerta are major examples of this, as a lot of people didn’t know who they were before their MCU debuts.
I like this format and I hope you continue it. You consistently bring thoughtful and informed opinions, and while I don't always agree I always respect the argument presented.
I think there're a few different reasons people aren't excited for newer Marvel stuff.
Part of it is the omnipresence. They've gone from one every couple years, to every year, to a couple every year, and now it seems like it's monthly. There's always, always, always something new from Marvel to watch at all times and every format. There's no possible way to anticipate the next movie and get excited or hyped about it. It's absolutely exhausting.
Related to the above, you can't just cherry pick which movies or shows to watch or ignore. They are all interconnected. This has always been the case, of course, but it was fine when the load was one movie a year. Now it's more like homework, something you have to sit through to get to the good stuff you actually want to see.
Part of it is quality. Doug compares phase 4 to phase 2 and notes that they each have similar ratios of good to bad material, and it's not a bad comparison. He's right about it, though I think the good movies of phase 2 are way better than the good movies and shows of 4. But phase 2 really isn't all that good. There's a lot of boring stuff in it.
And part of it is the Endgame problem. The original Avengers are no more, Iron Man is dead, Cap is a retired old man, the arc was complete. The characters that many people grew up with are now gone, and it made an easy exit for a lot of people including myself. Marvel has tried to introduce new characters to fill the void, but without giving them their own shows without the baggage of an extended universe we don't really get the same connection or development.
I think there is a core to Jonathan majors Kang, we just haven't seen it yet and maybe they should have shown that. Maybe in Quantumania they should have done a flashback or something to give a little peak at his backstory
When you .mention RRR that reminded me of my wife seeing Everything, everywhere, all at once... She's never been into wire fun, or any king fu movie, yet she loved this movie, the action and the emotional core (even with everything silly, and I want to be clear enough, silly will never be bad)
"RRR" and "Everything everywhere all at once" have perfect balance of heartbreaking and crazy. We need more stuff like this!)
I think Marvel needs to grow with their audience. We saw a bit of more compelling story telling and intrigue with Shang Chi’s relationship with his father and MCU Peter finally learning responsibility. Those are steps I love in Phase 4. Take Risks with character choices and have them learn.
But they have with phase four and have gotten push back. I think black widow, eternals, multiverse of madness, was risks with character choices
I believe that showing and telling everyone about ‘what’s coming next’ kinda put everyone on a time crunch that they didn’t need, they put too much pressure and too many shows and movies that just don’t hit like all the other movies
Well said Doug. Marvel have literally nothing to lose after endgame. now is a perfect opportunity to experiment
What should they do though? I feel phase four was experimenting and has gotten a lot of push back
@@andreacalvillo353 Do some real experimenting. For example I really enjoyed Werewolf by Night even though it was just a one shot special.
@@0816M3RC but that did poorly in ratings?
And say for example they did experiment more, what else in phase four could they have experimented more with? How would you have planned phase four?
Dude, the door creaks open around 2:17😂
Really appreciate your perspective on this! I had a great time with Quantumania. I’m excited by the promise of Secret Wars and where they seem to be headed. But I also agree with your points that more experimenting should happen. We need different flavors.
It's really funny because for the past few years the only movies that I really really enjoyed were The Last Wish and RRR.
Just like with the comics, you can tell all kinds of stories with these characters. What we have is an amazing setting that grows and has impacts. These experiments are going to be good for some, not for others.
I love this kind of videos! Keep'em coming Doug!
You definitely have a point there, the reason I personally don’t get into these movies/shows anymore is because they are cramping way too much out all at one and I just don’t have time, moon knight is a great character, but it’s like they were going to make a two hour movie but then a producer walked in and insisted they made it into a lengthy show, so it was slow paced, that’s the thing, each movie and show feels like homework rather than something entertaining
So glad you talked about this. I’m so sick of people having to drag down things just because they are popular and the MCU is definitely the biggest target of that right now. I agree that the movies haven’t been as good as they were before but that is no reason to say that the MCU is dead, and that everything MCU related should be skipped.
There are plenty of reasons, just cuz you want to shill for content, doesn't mean the MCU hasn't sold out
"that is no reason to say that the MCU is dead, and that everything MC related should be skipped." Those are people that despise the MCU and want it to go away. The only way of knowing that the MCU is dying is that if Guardians 3 flops.
Puss in Boots 2, even as someone who doesn't give a toss about the Shrek universe, was a great movie with great action, setup, stakes, and payoff. I love a story that reaches its full potential, and every single element brought into play in this movie, had a payoff.
@2:13
You got a ghost! 😅
Door is freaky
That thumbnail is legendary
I think they really need a way to organize this universe so it's not everywhere. Just set up teams or groups and keep it simple.
It isn't everywhere though. You got movies and shows.
@@grabble7605 what I mean is connection. Like who belongs where, when, and with who normally? Imagine comics with just the heros name and no teams anymore. I think it's to much. To many movies and shows about one character at a time.
I’m mixed on the whole thing. I agree that Marvel is getting REALLY complacent about themselves and the quality is definitely showing (that’s an understatement), but at the same time, I’ve liked some projects since phase 4. I loved No Way Home, Quantumania (fight me, even though they did change the ending at the last second), and even Moon Knight. I liked WandaVision (except for the rushed ending), Multiverse of Madness, Loki, Hawkeye, even some of What If?, and I also liked Shang-Chi. But the rest? Sheesh. They really fumbled the bag with Black Widow, Eternals, Love & Thunder, Ms. Marvel, The Falcon & The Winter Soldier, and damn sure She-Hulk. Wakanda Forever was okay I suppose, but not as good as it could’ve been, but it was alright. I’m hoping Guardians 3 will fix things going forward and I hope they REALLY listen to the audience feedback and space out their projects as well to put out a better product. I want Secret Wars to be the best Avengers/Marvel movie of all time (mainly due to all the former actors coming back, most likely), but hopefully they bring in an additional writer to help Michael Waldron. Anyway, I’ll get off my soapbox haha.
I've seen No Way Home and loved it, Black Widow was bad (what did they do to Taskmaster?), Hawkeye I had no interest in, Loki was boring, WHAT IF had some good ideas but a rushed finale, She-Hulk was garbage from what I've seen, and I skipped out on everything since.
@@BrandontheAwesomeoh definitely. They screwed up Taskmaster completely and in turn, ruined Black Widow’s character arc from The Avengers. She mentions the “red in her ledger” which was killing Dreykov’s daughter. They retconned it to where she was Taskmaster and that just wasn’t right at all. Plus, I think that was a last second change too, cause behind the scenes pics have shown it was a muscular guy in the suit the whole time. Olga Kurylenko is known for being rather skinny, so that didn’t add up at all. And yeah, She Hulk was just awful and they thought it was cooler than it was, which, it wasn’t at all.
I really like this video format, please do more of them!
For me, the problem is that there is just too much and its interconnected. In earlier phases, you had three movies to watch a year and you were up to date with what was going on in the MCU. Now you have dozens of TV-shows to watch and to buy a Disney Plus subsciption to get a sense of what is going on. It feels more like homework than anything.
Hiya Doug, big fan. I sat through all of Phase Four, which I gave a fair shot since I love the Infinity Saga (minus Captain Marvel)
Out of all 18 projects that came out for Phase Four (yes, 18), I only enjoyed 6 of them:
Spider-Man No Way Home
What If
Hawkeye
Moon Knight
Werewolf by Night
The Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special
The rest of the projects, in my opinion, ranked from "eh, could have been better* to "Good God, what the hell were you thinking?!"
It was the hardest phase I had to sit through, but I gave it a fair shot. Honestly, Marvel should've either taken a break or focus on the X-Men or something.
Puss in Boots 2 is a masterpiece. I haven't seen first one. Had to catch up. And oh man. First movie is great, but to top it with the sequel. Wow.
And Disney animated movies just few steps behind.
Puss in Boots 2 looks amazing
I think this is an opinion that many people agree on including myself. Puss In Boots 2 puts modern Disney animated films to shame with its fantastic story and awesome antagonist/villains (namely Jack Horner and Death).
Puss in boots 2 is the return to the late 90s/early 2000s dreamworks era.
Where they weren’t afraid to be edgy.
It felt like how antz the road to el dorado and the first shrek felt.
@@goldylover1000 👍👍👍
I hope people won't dismiss Puss 1 just because it's not a masterpiece like Puss 2. Puss 1 is still a very well done, competent film (and better than most of MCU's Phase 4).
Here’s the issue: as people have said, we got a lot more Phase 4 than Phase 2 content.
You can ignore or dismiss a few lower quality movies if you still enjoyed the overall direction of the Phase.
But with Phase 4, so many of the movies were “alright” that you risk audience apathy sinking in.
That’s the biggest danger. If people come to expect “meh”-level content from Marvel, then they won’t see the movies in theatre; they’ll see them on Disney+ or not at all.
As soon as you mentioned "Puss" and "RRR," I clapped. The MCU has really fallen off for me, to the point that I can't even muster the energy to care about whatever stakes it might pretend to have, especially after "Eternals" and "Doctor Strange 2" basically said the quiet part out loud and told the audience how much Disney and Marvel see them as commodities and dollar signs. I was the same as you, in that I really had no excitement for "Puss," but I gave it a chance and was very pleasantly surprised. It's flawed, certainly, but I appreciate the clear effort you can see. And "RRR," which I saw purely on a word-of-mouth recommendation, became one of the best experiences I've had at the movies in years. It was just me in the theatre along with two women I'd never met but who were obsessed with it. They invited me to join them, we shared wine (this theatre had booze), and it became audience participation. My jaw dropped so many times at just how ballsy the film was, and how bombastic it tried to be while still remaining grounded in its basic fantasy hypothetical. I still watch MCU movies for review purposes, but I checked out a while ago, and it's because they seem to care more about punishing you if you don't pay for Disney+ than they do telling a good story, or even a memorable one. Thanks for this video essay. It was exactly what I needed today.
I would honestly say the mcu is at the point where it not sure where exactly to go after everything they planned with endgame, with various projects of multiple tones, with either their ups and downs, in this case I’m hoping with the next phase they have better idea with what they’re going with .
That thumbnail...🤣😂
Amazing, right?
I want to bring up a trend with the Ant-Man movies:
Movie 1: Has Luis
Movie 2: Has Luis
Movie 3: Doesn´t have Luis
Think about that
Ive enjoyed your recaps for almost 10 yrs but these expose type vids i really enjoy bcz you show how and why youve been around for a decade and still get better n better
So thank you
I think you confuse quantity with quality when you compare Phase 2 with 4.
I don't know if it's the WORST place Disney's been in, but they are in a VERY bad place overall.
It’s a meh zone.
@@chasehedges6775 I'm not just talking about quality. The company is a bit of a shitshow right now.
@@KeybladeMasterAndy 👍👍. They are indeed a shadow
@@KeybladeMasterAndy And not a great time to have a shit show. They have to justify their purchase of 20th Century Fox like right now and they're floundering.
I'm thankful that You've Addressed this. I hope if things get better that you'll say. But I Agree with alot of your Points.
Great video. Love your insight on this.
It feels rudderless.
Perfect way of putting it
Post Endgame.
My biggest concern with the multiverse idea is that it could potentially remove any and all stakes… someone dies? No problem! We’ll just replace them with this other version.
And sadly, I could see marvel doing it, any new variation or styling of a beloved character can Immediately turn a profit in the toy department
It’s a shame to hear this movie was very underwhelming because this and Guardians 3 felt like they would pull Marvel back from their phase 4 slump. I’m hoping Guardians 3 will be the knockout I’ve been waiting to see.
Really enjoyed this type of video. Would love to see more stuff like this from ya Doug!!
Twerking She-Doug isn't real, it can't hurt you.
The thumbnail:
See you in dreamland!
@@ChannelAwesome I have enough weird dreams & nightmares, thank you...
Werewolf by Night, was good
People can say about Doug what they want, but I’ve seen two dozen “Problem with the MCU” video essays and they all say the same thing; and yet Doug’s video says something new. It’s a truly fresh perspective from somebody with a truly long film critic (as well as appreciation) history.
Hopefully Doug give us more of this this was awesome! 😁
My main issue with Phase 4 is what they're building towards. Kang is the right villain but just at the wrong time. For phase 4 a more street level approach would do massive good for world building. Post Endgame earth is different, heroes, villains, politics, and governments would be different. Phase 4 honestly is the perfect place to introduce the Xmen because post Wanda Vision we could naturally develop a political distrust for metahumans/Mutants. Have Falcon and Winter soldier be unknowingly chasing down mutants who were being experimented on to perfect the super soldier serum. Have the government use John Walker as their hired mutant hunter and the face of a darker anti mutant political party and slowly introduce the new "Avengers" hand picked by the government to answer the new threat. Slowly introduce the original members of the X men and have Sam as Falcon function as their advocate against the government. Eventually have an X men movie to introduce Charles and end the phase with Avengers vs X men. Have the conflict be around who get custody of Wanda post Wanda Vision. The evil Avengers lose and Sam finally decides he can't be passive and takes the shield to reform the true Avengers leading to phase 5. Dr.Strange can even shows up intent upon protecting Wanda and helping her master her powers. Have the stinger be Magneto coming out of stasis and you've just set the table for an epic phase 5 where you can lead into whatever (but the correct answer is Dr.Doom).
Phase 2 was worse, but phase 4 had so many downs for what Marvel had become up to that point, and what didn't work greatly overshadows what did work
To your comparison to Puss in Boots, what I loved about it is that (ironically), it’s a very human story, and it’s something that everyone will probably end up going through (especially if they manage to achieve great success in their lives.
It’s also visually very beautiful, mixed western animation with anime and it’s a timeless story that can be felt by damn near anyone, of any age, at any time, whether it be now or 40 years from now.
We don’t get any of that from the MCU these days.