When Titan refers to being inert at high heat, he is specifically referring to that ceramics do not oxidize at extremely high heat. Tungsten carbide can structurally handle just as high heat, but it reacts with oxygen at those temps in air and will quickly wither away. Ceramics do not react with oxygen at high heat so they can be used indefinitely at such high temps.
Ceramics can and do oxidize at high temperatures, it just depends how high the temperature has to be. In the case of tungsten carbide it starts around ~600 C, and is generally used up to ~750 C. For other ceramics it can be higher or lower, it is a spectrum and really depends on the material. I'm not sure what material Kennametal's "ceramic" is but it is misleading to just call it a ceramic since most of the materials that tooling is made from are or contain ceramics; tungsten carbide is an example and so are iron-carbon alloys (steel) which can naturally form iron carbide (cementite) in a range of tunable microstructures.
Ive machined the ends from up to 120mm diameter hardened steel ball screws with a lengh of up to 8m on a conventional lathe with ceramic inserts for years. Using a customized bezel ive received a first cut of 11mm depth of cut with 2400rpm and 0.042mm/U every time. Loved the job, but payment was very bad for this kind of work with workpieces up to 2t and no crane available. But there was a lot of action going on at work every day. 😄 One day in winter me and my coworkers turned out all the lights in the workshop and had a lot of fun watching the bright shining, burning steel flowed into the machinebed. Greetings from Germany
I'm wondering, if the cutter runs so hot that it glows, does it also grow under heat expansion? Do you have to compensate for that or does it not matter?
I turn iron and steel mill rolls with ceramic. I can attest they are some amazing tooling, even after 7 years of doing this job its still impressive when roughing in a part. We use NTK ceramics. We have 3 150Hp Dc heavy roll lathes these things are brutes!! Ive ran a 1-1/4 ceramic tool, DOC 20mm Feed rate 0.15 mm/rev @ 125 rpm 850mm diameter steel roll and let me tell you that is some serious material flying off the machine!! Dump truck full of chips in just a little while!!!!
Titan, this is fantastic, Thank you however I have three questions. First I noticed you are running on a Tormach mill are you using a set screw holder with it. if so what is your run out. typically a setscrew holder runs out over .002 tir sometimes they will be under that but not much. if that is the case this is amazing results with a not so precise holder. also, I am wanting to mill some stuff like A1 tool steel and knife grade steel how does ceramic deal with that. I would guess really well. Finally running that endmill in that setup how many parts can you get out of running the endmill glowing red hot like that. when I see that my reaction is to panic ( years worth of experience with Carbide/HSS etc.). to me this looks like my solution to Hard steel finishing. For a while, I have been looking for a solution for a tool that would hold up with super high surface footage and tiny tool engagement. think like kellering with aluminum and carbide but with a ball em and tool steel etc. over the years I have found a good number of solutions for roughing this material but finishing was the problem. 23 years ago in the mold shop, I was apprenticing in they would use a sinker EDM and burn away material because back then there wasn't this technology. Personally, my scope is pretty limited in regards to working with cutting-edge (no pun intended) tooling like this. I decided to focus on precision machined aluminum products for my product line because it was prohibitively expensive to 3d finish even mid-grade stainless like H13 etc. Roughing was no problem but I would go thru many many finishing ball endmills in the stuff because my area of heat buildup was so small on the endmill. When you can spread that profile over the entire edge things are not so bad but when you focus the heat in a .04 zone you are asking for problems. You may not get a catastrophic failure but your part might be scrapped in finishing because of tool wear. well enough long-winded commentary just know that this video you posted answered a years-long question I had. Thank you again Titan for all that you do for this industry.
Tungsten Carbide is a Ceramic, just saying. I get when people say "ceramic" they don't mean carbide, but perhaps we need a better name since carbide is a also a ceramic.
@@burville100 you could do it in steps maybe divide it into 4. Also if you might slow it down on the bore if your clogging up on boring. Dont mess with titanium much i do mostly hasteloy and inconels but that helps me.
I mistakenly used some tpg322 ceramics on 304 stainless to some wicked amazing results. Ceramics are pretty amazing. It made me actually LIKE cutting inconel.
hi guys it would be cool to test aliexpress or amazone tools and compare them with the same tools but kennametal quality to see what's the difference and why cheap tools cut less well and have a reduced life
Titan, I have a question. Could ceramics be used for roughing hardened steels? Or is it too hard for it and ceramics will break? As far as I know, high temperature could cause tempering of it surface, but if you would leave some stock to remove, you could remove it with normal end mill to get back to hard stuff.
Never knew of ceramic cutters, But it looks like your climb milling with these cutters, ?? is that correct? Have a question, how slow of a speed can one use these at without running into problems, My mill is a small hobby type you might say, and it runs around 2000. would it be ok to use ceramic at that slower speeds, but not climb milling and cutting into the metals such as aluminum and stock steels as I usually don't use many alloy steel, with what I'm doing,
We use carbide, and Its a haas vf4 dont know the specific max. rpm. Whats the lowest rpm you can use with ceramic and inconel. Oh and we use 6 flute carbide and flood it with coolant and feed speeds are super slow, almost like 50x slower than what we're watching. I dont run the haas' I'm just on the manuals for now.
Could you explain why Ceramic milltool diameter 12mm is so expensive? Rowmaterial costs 8$ and grinding time is exactly the same like grinding a carbid millingtool. And the tecnology is the same... I dont understand why so high prices? Thank you
Am I wrong in assuming that coolant wasn't used for cinematic purposes? Or would coolant hurt a ceramic tool like what was shown in the video? The tools certainly didn't seemed bothered by the high heat, so I'm curious about how coolant would effect the cutting performance of ceramic tools
When Titan refers to being inert at high heat, he is specifically referring to that ceramics do not oxidize at extremely high heat. Tungsten carbide can structurally handle just as high heat, but it reacts with oxygen at those temps in air and will quickly wither away. Ceramics do not react with oxygen at high heat so they can be used indefinitely at such high temps.
It specifically causes degradation of the Cobalt binder
^ tungsten carbide itself is a ceramic too.
Ceramics can and do oxidize at high temperatures, it just depends how high the temperature has to be. In the case of tungsten carbide it starts around ~600 C, and is generally used up to ~750 C. For other ceramics it can be higher or lower, it is a spectrum and really depends on the material. I'm not sure what material Kennametal's "ceramic" is but it is misleading to just call it a ceramic since most of the materials that tooling is made from are or contain ceramics; tungsten carbide is an example and so are iron-carbon alloys (steel) which can naturally form iron carbide (cementite) in a range of tunable microstructures.
Thanks
Ive machined the ends from up to 120mm diameter hardened steel ball screws with a lengh of up to 8m on a conventional lathe with ceramic inserts for years. Using a customized bezel ive received a first cut of 11mm depth of cut with 2400rpm and 0.042mm/U every time. Loved the job, but payment was very bad for this kind of work with workpieces up to 2t and no crane available.
But there was a lot of action going on at work every day. 😄
One day in winter me and my coworkers turned out all the lights in the workshop and had a lot of fun watching the bright shining, burning steel flowed into the machinebed.
Greetings from Germany
Title: Everything You Need to Know About CERAMIC TOOLING
Content: you can run 'em really fast cuz they don't mind the heat. Look at the neat sparkles.
Everything I need to know is I can't use it.
to be fair, that is everything I needed to know, more in fact.
I'm wondering, if the cutter runs so hot that it glows, does it also grow under heat expansion? Do you have to compensate for that or does it not matter?
The thermal expansion is probably not significant enough to make a difference in most tolerances. Maybe a few tenths
I would think you make a finishing cut after
the ceramic is not affected by the heat nearly as much as carbide is, the glow is from the inconel chips getting red hot.
Great fantastic explanations of ceramics. Titan i like ya crazy approach for the public to fathom on what your seeing 11 out of 10
Keep on keeping on
Gilroy.......do you not sleep bro.
I turn iron and steel mill rolls with ceramic. I can attest they are some amazing tooling, even after 7 years of doing this job its still impressive when roughing in a part. We use NTK ceramics. We have 3 150Hp Dc heavy roll lathes these things are brutes!! Ive ran a 1-1/4 ceramic tool, DOC 20mm Feed rate 0.15 mm/rev @ 125 rpm 850mm diameter steel roll and let me tell you that is some serious material flying off the machine!! Dump truck full of chips in just a little while!!!!
3600sfm on a 2" button mill. Took a 5 hour roughing operation down to 5 minutes in inco 718
6:04 I literally ducked trying to evade those glowing chips coming at me... lol
Always wear your safety glasses watching machining...on UA-cam :-)
The fact that you're able to do this on a Tormach 770 is pretty impressive
Ceramic works really well on cast iron too. Dirty stuff.
Titan, this is fantastic, Thank you however I have three questions. First I noticed you are running on a Tormach mill are you using a set screw holder with it. if so what is your run out. typically a setscrew holder runs out over .002 tir sometimes they will be under that but not much. if that is the case this is amazing results with a not so precise holder. also, I am wanting to mill some stuff like A1 tool steel and knife grade steel how does ceramic deal with that. I would guess really well. Finally running that endmill in that setup how many parts can you get out of running the endmill glowing red hot like that. when I see that my reaction is to panic ( years worth of experience with Carbide/HSS etc.). to me this looks like my solution to Hard steel finishing. For a while, I have been looking for a solution for a tool that would hold up with super high surface footage and tiny tool engagement. think like kellering with aluminum and carbide but with a ball em and tool steel etc. over the years I have found a good number of solutions for roughing this material but finishing was the problem. 23 years ago in the mold shop, I was apprenticing in they would use a sinker EDM and burn away material because back then there wasn't this technology. Personally, my scope is pretty limited in regards to working with cutting-edge (no pun intended) tooling like this. I decided to focus on precision machined aluminum products for my product line because it was prohibitively expensive to 3d finish even mid-grade stainless like H13 etc. Roughing was no problem but I would go thru many many finishing ball endmills in the stuff because my area of heat buildup was so small on the endmill. When you can spread that profile over the entire edge things are not so bad but when you focus the heat in a .04 zone you are asking for problems. You may not get a catastrophic failure but your part might be scrapped in finishing because of tool wear. well enough long-winded commentary just know that this video you posted answered a years-long question I had. Thank you again Titan for all that you do for this industry.
Greetings from Austria :)
Tungsten Carbide is a Ceramic, just saying. I get when people say "ceramic" they don't mean carbide, but perhaps we need a better name since carbide is a also a ceramic.
Any recommendations for drilling and boring and getting to grips with chip/swarf control on titanium grade2 on an ST15 Haas lathe would be great.👌
What size bore and how deep
@@mattcaesar5781 Hi Matt. It's an 18mm dia hole going about 56 mm deep. This is in preparation for a 19.1 mm bore .
@@burville100 you could do it in steps maybe divide it into 4. Also if you might slow it down on the bore if your clogging up on boring. Dont mess with titanium much i do mostly hasteloy and inconels but that helps me.
@@mattcaesar5781 Cheers for the advice buddy👍
I mistakenly used some tpg322 ceramics on 304 stainless to some wicked amazing results. Ceramics are pretty amazing. It made me actually LIKE cutting inconel.
hi guys it would be cool to test aliexpress or amazone tools and compare them with the same tools but kennametal quality to see what's the difference and why cheap tools cut less well and have a reduced life
Imaging to Try chewing on one of those ceramic button inserts lol
@Titan Amazing thank you for the info on ceramic tooling boom....
WOW, on top of the insane SFM, it leaves an amazing finish at the end.
Would like to hear more on the critical importance of the tool holder/ tool connection.
can you use climb and conventional milling with a ceramic cutter?
Titan, I have a question. Could ceramics be used for roughing hardened steels? Or is it too hard for it and ceramics will break? As far as I know, high temperature could cause tempering of it surface, but if you would leave some stock to remove, you could remove it with normal end mill to get back to hard stuff.
Yes, tool and die makers do it every day. I routinely machine custom Jaw sets (interrupted cuts) with ceramics on 4140 that's 55-60 HRC.
💲💲 but nice Tool
This is a reposted video. I seen this about a year ago.
Never knew of ceramic cutters,
But it looks like your climb milling with these cutters, ?? is that correct?
Have a question,
how slow of a speed can one use these at without running into problems,
My mill is a small hobby type you might say, and it runs around 2000.
would it be ok to use ceramic at that slower speeds, but not climb milling and cutting into the metals such as aluminum and stock steels as I usually don't use many alloy steel, with what I'm doing,
I wanna see you grab the tool right after its done cutting
😁😂
Lmao 😭😂
We use carbide, and Its a haas vf4 dont know the specific max. rpm. Whats the lowest rpm you can use with ceramic and inconel.
Oh and we use 6 flute carbide and flood it with coolant and feed speeds are super slow, almost like 50x slower than what we're watching.
I dont run the haas' I'm just on the manuals for now.
Jesus, i challenge u, i want to see what u can do with a 3018 pro
3 sec later: I'm done, now it cuts steel
What's the material on the 3d printed camera housing cage box thing?
Great info! Are you more in favor of Solid Works vrs 360 for Cam?
On a Tormach 770? Nice
That is exactly what I was thinking...sadly, no F&S on the 770 shots
So how would they do on an interupted cut? Explode or wear vs carbide
Knows he's old when he thinks I'm not ready for ceramic lol
Could you explain why Ceramic milltool diameter 12mm is so expensive? Rowmaterial costs 8$ and grinding time is exactly the same like grinding a carbid millingtool. And the tecnology is the same... I dont understand why so high prices? Thank you
Same reason diamonds are so expensive.
Am I wrong in assuming that coolant wasn't used for cinematic purposes? Or would coolant hurt a ceramic tool like what was shown in the video? The tools certainly didn't seemed bothered by the high heat, so I'm curious about how coolant would effect the cutting performance of ceramic tools
Yeah this is my question
Why don't you use shrink fit chucks?
The beauty of growing! Keep going.
Can we run without coolant like this Mr. Titan???
Pretty sure you have to or the thermal shock will grenade tools.
Great info mate, thanks.
👍
Oh so the ceramic loses rigidity at bigger lengths, I never knew.
Finition work shit
Hss end Mill cut better
Lol. Try cutting hss with hss.