Home EVSE’s use essentially the same plug as your dryer. When’s the last time you had a dryer fail at the plug? I expect a lot of people to tell me theirs did, but it still seems fairly unlikely. 😅 I much prefer being able to replace a failed unit without having to call and pay an electrician.
The load and, more importantly, load duration needed to charge an EV is *significantly* larger for an EV than it is for a dryer. It's not a good comparison. If, for whatever reason, you can NOT hardwire your EVSE and need to use a NEMA 15-50 outlet, then at least purchase a high-quality (and yes, expensive) one like the ones made by Hubbell.
The dryer and the an EVSE call for very different electrical loads. One has the ability to peak fairly high, the other is going to be operating at that peak almost constantly. It's not to say it's going to fail, it's just another component that could create a fail point (especially if it's not made for the application). -Travis
I’d be interested to hear from an electrician or electrical engineer who knows the specifications for those outlets. I have a hard time thinking that outlets and associated breakers and wiring are not made to safely handle their rated amperage regardless of how long it’s being pulled for. Breakers will age, and though perhaps they may age out quicker under heavy use than those not, I’d think generally there is not real cause for concern (we likely would have heard of that by now being EVs and modern style level 2 EVSEs have been around for like 15+ years).
The danger with plug-in EVSE's is the cycle rating of the receptacle. When plug contacts get loose you risk arcing and eventually fire. Cheap outlets get loose faster and aren't meant to handle plugging and unplugging devices frequently.
I think these are all fair points. As far as unplugging is concerned, my first Juice Box died within weeks of use. I was very glad I hadn’t gotten it wired as I had to send it back (the replacement has been working fine since 2020). I am only planning to ever unplug it if I need to replace it, so I feel fairly safe. A NEMA 14-X can probably take way more plug/unplugs than mine will ever see given how 14-50s are used at campgrounds etc.
The GM charger solution with a plug is definitely the way to go. If you’re building a new house or calling in an electrician - you get that outlet installed and never have to call another electrician again. If you need a new charger or move, you don’t need to worry about it.
The key is to make sure you get a high quality plug and understand that you may be limiting the maximum charging speed vs a hardwire unit with higher power output capability. -Travis
When we got our first EV there was a long wait for an electrician to install the hardwired unit so I had a NEMA 14-50 installed until they could get the EVSE installed so I ended up with both. That came in handy when we got the second EV because we can charge both cars and when one is charging the cable is not behind the other car in the way. The mobile EVSE charges at about 30 miles per hour and the wall connector charges at 50 miles per hour but overnight either one will get the charge back where we need it in the morning.
I thought at least one OEM has integrated in their car app all the major fast charging companies connectivity software. That would be very encouraging.
For what it’s worth, anecdotal evidence, I’ve had a pigtail ChargePoint Home Flex for 4 years with no issues. I chose the pigtail model because I knew I wouldn’t be living in the same place more than a couple years, and I was right. I can easily bring the EVSE with me without having to call the electrician to unhook it and do something with the loose wiring
Be sure to talk to an electrician first. Connecting a new 30A+ circuit may be a big cost. If you're main electric panel is 200A and on the garage then it's easy cheesy. If the main panel is 100A and on the opposite side of the house it'll be a few thousand just to wire the Charger; and it may be easier just to use a 120v plug for a while.
Yep. I've been driving electric for a decade using a 120 V plug because I still haven't gotten around to getting a 240 V supply to my garage. We have the capacity, but the panel is on the opposite side of the house (and it's in a finished basement, so some patching up afterwards is probably going to need to be done). And if it's going to take that kind of money and have that disruption getting it run and installed, I kind of don't just want to do that, but also future proof and plan for incorporating bi-directional for home backup and load shifting, solar PV self consumption, etc... which just isn't something that local electricians were up for that I could find. That said, now that we have two EVs we pretty much have to, regardless of whether it'll need to be reworked more than if we had the ability to plan for the other stuff in advance.
I was sharing a single Level 1 charging cable between a BEV and a PHEV for about a year, it's manageable to a point but certainly not ideal or overly convenient. -Travis
So far only Ford 80 A EVSE has built in current transmission from house to vehicle and from vehicle to house. It is ONLY based on CCS1 connector, works ONLY with Ford F150 Lightning. Lucid launched their own 80 A unit working only with Lucid both ways. To provide electricity ONLY from home to vehicle both units work with any car brand. No EVSE is approved/working with Tesla plug to provide the same vehicle to home capability specifically for one reason: Tesla connector uses the same wires for both AC and DC current approved/developed ONLY to provide electricity to EV, not to take it out of it. Only Ford unit has approved/developed extra components required to break switch the home out of the grid if the power on the grid is out to protect the workers restoring the outage on the grid. It also requires a battery to be on all the time to start the system when outage happened, the control unit and the invertor. Most homes need upgrading of their wiring and the special transformer in neighborhood everything to work properly. So no worries: the CCS1 unit from Ford will be working with old EVs with CCS1 but it will take some extra years AFTER 2025 until something similar will be provided with Tesla connector. Yes, Tesla is elegant, has a tolerance for 270 V AC current by comparison with J1772 equipped cars mostly working with AC current up til 240 V. However Tesla DOESN'T split the wires for those both functions therefore it will require extra R&D until a ready for market unit will be available.
Tesla says that the Universal Wall Connector is PowerShare (their term for V2H) capable but that only the Cybertruck can currently offload power. -Travis
As a first time buyer, I referenced Tom Maloghny State of Charge reviews and chose the ChargePoint + home flex. This was before Hyundai offered it as an option when purchasing the vehicle which would’ve saved me a few hundred dollars. I purposely chose the one with the plug because I want the ability to move this with me though that’s not it’s intended design. My next EV may have a J3400 inlet, I will then invest in that cable that ChargePoint offers to convert along with the holster. I’ll probably then purchasing a dedicated 40 amp EVSE that I will have for the car. Currently, I just keep the supplied one from the Hyundai in it. I will probably then upgrade the ChargePoint home flex by removing the plug and direct wiring it which you can do if you own the one with the plug. I’ll configure it for 48A and maximize it capability of charging at home. Currently the 9 kW is enough to charge it from 6% to 80% in six hours which is plenty fast enough given the IONIQ 5 2023’s batteries size. Choose wisely because 90% of all electricity for our use case happens while we sleep on that ChargePoint. 👍🏼 13:04
Tomorrow my battery storage system is being installed. $35,800 for 2 Tesla Powerwalls. I qualified for the $26,400 rebate and will also receive a $2800 Federal Tax Credit. Net cost is $6,600.
It seems like you can't buy the EA Home station any more. Is that true? Amazon does not have it any more neither does the EA website. The one in the video is a different design than the one I bought 2 years ago.
I was able to find a home station at www.ElectrifyHome.com but it's interesting that Electrify Home isn't mentioned anywhere I could find on VW's website (though Electrify America is). It seems VW officially outsource EVSE instalation to a company that doesn't offer the Electrify Home products. -Travis
I hope Ford does an about-face on the NACS plug. I think it will slow the adoption of V to H via DC bus since we will be down to 2 wires. I've lost track on who is using NACS via the AC circuit on the vehicle onboard charger?
Home EVSE’s use essentially the same plug as your dryer. When’s the last time you had a dryer fail at the plug? I expect a lot of people to tell me theirs did, but it still seems fairly unlikely. 😅 I much prefer being able to replace a failed unit without having to call and pay an electrician.
The load and, more importantly, load duration needed to charge an EV is *significantly* larger for an EV than it is for a dryer. It's not a good comparison. If, for whatever reason, you can NOT hardwire your EVSE and need to use a NEMA 15-50 outlet, then at least purchase a high-quality (and yes, expensive) one like the ones made by Hubbell.
The dryer and the an EVSE call for very different electrical loads. One has the ability to peak fairly high, the other is going to be operating at that peak almost constantly. It's not to say it's going to fail, it's just another component that could create a fail point (especially if it's not made for the application). -Travis
I’d be interested to hear from an electrician or electrical engineer who knows the specifications for those outlets. I have a hard time thinking that outlets and associated breakers and wiring are not made to safely handle their rated amperage regardless of how long it’s being pulled for. Breakers will age, and though perhaps they may age out quicker under heavy use than those not, I’d think generally there is not real cause for concern (we likely would have heard of that by now being EVs and modern style level 2 EVSEs have been around for like 15+ years).
The danger with plug-in EVSE's is the cycle rating of the receptacle. When plug contacts get loose you risk arcing and eventually fire. Cheap outlets get loose faster and aren't meant to handle plugging and unplugging devices frequently.
I think these are all fair points. As far as unplugging is concerned, my first Juice Box died within weeks of use. I was very glad I hadn’t gotten it wired as I had to send it back (the replacement has been working fine since 2020). I am only planning to ever unplug it if I need to replace it, so I feel fairly safe. A NEMA 14-X can probably take way more plug/unplugs than mine will ever see given how 14-50s are used at campgrounds etc.
I am so happy to see channels like this putting out correct info about EV's and EVSE's. Great video as always! :)
To add style to your home charger, add a Chargehanger ...
The GM charger solution with a plug is definitely the way to go. If you’re building a new house or calling in an electrician - you get that outlet installed and never have to call another electrician again.
If you need a new charger or move, you don’t need to worry about it.
The key is to make sure you get a high quality plug and understand that you may be limiting the maximum charging speed vs a hardwire unit with higher power output capability. -Travis
When we got our first EV there was a long wait for an electrician to install the hardwired unit so I had a NEMA 14-50 installed until they could get the EVSE installed so I ended up with both. That came in handy when we got the second EV because we can charge both cars and when one is charging the cable is not behind the other car in the way. The mobile EVSE charges at about 30 miles per hour and the wall connector charges at 50 miles per hour but overnight either one will get the charge back where we need it in the morning.
Sounds like you've got what you need! -Travis
I thought at least one OEM has integrated in their car app all the major fast charging companies connectivity software. That would be very encouraging.
I'm sure that's being worked on but I haven't had first hand experience with any one app that has all other networks integrated yet. -Travis
The Honda evse looks suspiciously like the Juicebox by Enel X
You've got a good eye. -Travis
@@EVBuyersGuide So is Enel X making them for Honda?
To the best of my knowledge, yes. -Travis
For what it’s worth, anecdotal evidence, I’ve had a pigtail ChargePoint Home Flex for 4 years with no issues. I chose the pigtail model because I knew I wouldn’t be living in the same place more than a couple years, and I was right. I can easily bring the EVSE with me without having to call the electrician to unhook it and do something with the loose wiring
I'm not saying it's a horrible choice, especially if you know you won't be in the same home for an extended period of time. -Travis
Be sure to talk to an electrician first. Connecting a new 30A+ circuit may be a big cost. If you're main electric panel is 200A and on the garage then it's easy cheesy. If the main panel is 100A and on the opposite side of the house it'll be a few thousand just to wire the Charger; and it may be easier just to use a 120v plug for a while.
If you have 100A service you're very likely looking at an upgrade if you're looking at significant EV charging capability. -Travis
Yep. I've been driving electric for a decade using a 120 V plug because I still haven't gotten around to getting a 240 V supply to my garage. We have the capacity, but the panel is on the opposite side of the house (and it's in a finished basement, so some patching up afterwards is probably going to need to be done). And if it's going to take that kind of money and have that disruption getting it run and installed, I kind of don't just want to do that, but also future proof and plan for incorporating bi-directional for home backup and load shifting, solar PV self consumption, etc... which just isn't something that local electricians were up for that I could find. That said, now that we have two EVs we pretty much have to, regardless of whether it'll need to be reworked more than if we had the ability to plan for the other stuff in advance.
I was sharing a single Level 1 charging cable between a BEV and a PHEV for about a year, it's manageable to a point but certainly not ideal or overly convenient. -Travis
So far only Ford 80 A EVSE has built in current transmission from house to vehicle and from vehicle to house. It is ONLY based on CCS1 connector, works ONLY with Ford F150 Lightning. Lucid launched their own 80 A unit working only with Lucid both ways. To provide electricity ONLY from home to vehicle both units work with any car brand. No EVSE is approved/working with Tesla plug to provide the same vehicle to home capability specifically for one reason: Tesla connector uses the same wires for both AC and DC current approved/developed ONLY to provide electricity to EV, not to take it out of it. Only Ford unit has approved/developed extra components required to break switch the home out of the grid if the power on the grid is out to protect the workers restoring the outage on the grid. It also requires a battery to be on all the time to start the system when outage happened, the control unit and the invertor. Most homes need upgrading of their wiring and the special transformer in neighborhood everything to work properly. So no worries: the CCS1 unit from Ford will be working with old EVs with CCS1 but it will take some extra years AFTER 2025 until something similar will be provided with Tesla connector.
Yes, Tesla is elegant, has a tolerance for 270 V AC current by comparison with J1772 equipped cars mostly working with AC current up til 240 V.
However Tesla DOESN'T split the wires for those both functions therefore it will require extra R&D until a ready for market unit will be available.
Tesla says that the Universal Wall Connector is PowerShare (their term for V2H) capable but that only the Cybertruck can currently offload power. -Travis
As a first time buyer, I referenced Tom Maloghny State of Charge reviews and chose the ChargePoint + home flex. This was before Hyundai offered it as an option when purchasing the vehicle which would’ve saved me a few hundred dollars. I purposely chose the one with the plug because I want the ability to move this with me though that’s not it’s intended design. My next EV may have a J3400 inlet, I will then invest in that cable that ChargePoint offers to convert along with the holster. I’ll probably then purchasing a dedicated 40 amp EVSE that I will have for the car. Currently, I just keep the supplied one from the Hyundai in it. I will probably then upgrade the ChargePoint home flex by removing the plug and direct wiring it which you can do if you own the one with the plug. I’ll configure it for 48A and maximize it capability of charging at home. Currently the 9 kW is enough to charge it from 6% to 80% in six hours which is plenty fast enough given the IONIQ 5 2023’s batteries size. Choose wisely because 90% of all electricity for our use case happens while we sleep on that ChargePoint. 👍🏼 13:04
It sounds like you've got a pretty solid plan! -Travis
Rule #1: HARDWIRE your EVSE. Rule #2: Any questions, refer to Rule #1
Tomorrow my battery storage system is being installed. $35,800 for 2 Tesla Powerwalls. I qualified for the $26,400 rebate and will also receive a $2800 Federal Tax Credit. Net cost is $6,600.
That's a substantial savings! -Travis
@@EVBuyersGuideit took nearly a year. I was put on a waitlist for funds to be made available. Finally in January of ‘24 it happened.
@@TheCarCrazyGuy What state?
It seems like you can't buy the EA Home station any more. Is that true? Amazon does not have it any more neither does the EA website. The one in the video is a different design than the one I bought 2 years ago.
I was able to find a home station at www.ElectrifyHome.com but it's interesting that Electrify Home isn't mentioned anywhere I could find on VW's website (though Electrify America is). It seems VW officially outsource EVSE instalation to a company that doesn't offer the Electrify Home products. -Travis
I hope Ford does an about-face on the NACS plug. I think it will slow the adoption of V to H via DC bus since we will be down to 2 wires. I've lost track on who is using NACS via the AC circuit on the vehicle onboard charger?
There's a snowballs chance Ford does a 180 on NACS/J3400 adoption. They were the trend setter and everything is heading that direction. -Travis
@EVBuyersGuide So, you're saying there's a chance!
I suppose there always is. -Travis