Maori Analysis and First Impression - Civilization VI: Gathering Storm
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- Опубліковано 3 гру 2018
- Hey guys PotatoMcWhiskey here with a First Impression and Analysis of Maori for the ucomping Civilization VI Gathering Storm expansion!
One thing I missed from the video is that that the Maori can't chop resources! This will definitely change how you play them! - Ігри
One thing I missed from the video is that that the Maori can't chop resources! This will definitely change how you play them!
Is that pigs at 17:42 in the 3 gold tile?
HAH, I KNEW THEY HAD A WEAKNESS.
Do woods and jungle count as resources though or are they features, thus being exempt from the no-chop rule?
@@Nyarlschannel they can be chopped but you don't want to because of how good they are now. If you have the amphitheatre replacement, woods tiles are +2 production (after conservation), +2 Culture, and +2 Faith, in addition to the food bonuses.
And that they can't earn great writers (mentioned at the end of the Mana description). For all those bonuses there has to be a cost, right? Maybe the upgraded Amphitheater is designed to make up for that? Anyway I can't wait to play them either!!
I think the lack of great writers may be a reference to the cultural emphasis on oral histories, story telling, hakas, etc.
Also no written language until the arrival of Europeans. The reason there was a cultural emphasis on oral histories because that WAS history
Which is reason why Maori languages today uses alphabet.
You are correct. This was specifically stated in the live stream
We still use oral traditions. Our Marae and elders still tell of our tipuna (ancestors). At one of my Marae, my uncle can trace my bloodlines back over 200 generations
@@eruririnui1587 I lived in Polynesia for years and it's the same on each island, it's truly fascinating.
They're going to be very susceptible to rising sea level.. just like all Polynesian civs in real life today. Finding cliffs will be key.
Thankfully you're actively discouraged from cutting down rainforests and forests, when playing as the Maori, which contributes to global warming in Gathering Storm
In real life Māori are less susceptible to rising sea-level in comparison to other Polynesian civs because New Zealand is much larger and has a way more variable environment compared to other Islands in the pacific.
You're thinking of the pacific islands like Samoa, Tonga, etc....nz is no more susceptible to rising sea levels like the British isles. Typical thinking though.
Why do people keep making these comments the Maori are the native peoples (well that's debatable but..) of New Zealand. New Zealand's highest point is the summit of Mt Cook 3754m above sea level if I remember. By the time that joint goes under the UK will be gone most of Europe will be gone the neighbouring continent of Australia will be gone.
@@Yooneek696969 Yeah everyone knows NZ has elevation and Balrogs live beneath those mountains. How many islands in Oceania, and more importantly, how many settlements in Oceania are right at sea level? If your settler is in the sea I doubt you're going to wait 30 turns to hike inland to high ground - i.e. your cap will be on the coast 99% of the time.
Something people haven't really mentioned is that Maori are not only one of the few civs with 2 unique buildings/improvements (Rome also has a unique district and a classical fort replacement), but one of the few with an explicit drawback to offset their insane bonuses (Kongo is the other as they can't earn prophets). I think Maori is going to be the naval version of Rome, where you just want to pump out settlers and claim as much land as possible while you're the only civ who can cross the seas.
And then Norway arives and takes half those cities away with their stronger navy :P
Which is reminiscent to how the oceanic island chain was colonised originally
As a Maori from New Zealand this makes me extremely happy to be represented in a franchise I love 🇳🇿😁
insert Moana meme
I think people are overlooking the fact that they will be able to build galleys and Quadriremes on their first turn producing
Especially if they can rush the +100% production card
So happy my country is finally in a Civ game. I'm stoked to play them for that reason alone!
I know, its about bloody time.
Time to make a flightless bird as your air force
@@Jackb290 absolutely hilarious, the first time I've ever heard this joke before.
@@yincheri1421 I hear you :D - fun fact - the amount of red used to make the Kiwi in the Air Force roundel is the same amount of red that is used to make the bulls-eye in the British AF roundel. (My dad had a hand in designing it! Woot!)
Well they had Maori warriors in civ 5, that was cool.
I actually dont like the AI in civ 6, they are all talk too much war mongers. I will obviously buy this at some point though as its the patriotic thing to do.
i have an idea, don't nerf Maori.... just buff the rest of the civs? why not make them even more diffrent and unique, since Civ1 up to Civ5 civs had really small buffs(we all remember Civ V with Rome just having +20% production in the capital city..) so why not add few more bonuses for the vanilla civs?
They're reworking a lot of the civs for this expansion
Civ V rome had a global production boost to buildings that exist in the cap.
So many people have this idea of balance and don't realize that it doesn't work like that. Buffing everyone up to base civ 6 war cart strength, or horse lady strength isn't going to make the game more enjoyable. It will just be obnoxious. First and foremost, good early game bonuses will almost always outpace good mid-late game bonuses. There are obvious exceptions to this, but at the latest, good bonuses only extend to mid game (Civ 5 England).
I'm not going to be the guy that says most of the civs aren't significantly weaker than others, because I don't think anyone really argues that America can ever compete with Persia, assuming both are played competently. There undoubtedly need to be buffs, but balance changes go both ways. Some civs are so far out of line that they have to be brought back in. Should they not have nerfed the light cavalry civic card? Even after that nerf, horsemen are still the best units in the game, still creating problems. Colosseum is still beyond broken, should other wonders reach the level of Colosseum? Probably not the best idea.
@@StormTG315 Personally I'd rather have everyone be overpowered, than everyone be neutered.
@@PotatoMcWhiskey I would rather have neither. Again, I do think that there are multiple civs that need to be buffed. That much is clear. There are just always going to need to be nerfs to bring the things that are so far gone back in line. Obviously its never going to be perfect, but its not as if balance is some ultimatum. You don't have to make Persia trash to make them reasonable to play against. Just like Maori could not get 6-7 good or great bonuses without being made terrible.
Without chops they’ll have a hard time competing for wonders, but their national park potential is staggering and all that late game tourism.
There's a strong reason not to though. That's sacrificing production (until conservation) for a wonder.
I think having an inland city with lots of hills and a strong industrial zone can help with their wonder production while they can focus on parks and seaside resorts, plus the factory on late game can make up what they lose from having less mines
@@TheWastelander86 Chopping woods is ALWAYS sacrificing production tiles for immediate production harvest.
Using the starting pop and free builder, I think it would be possible to rush for stonehenge as well if they find stone - even if it's a bit farther away from the city, if there is a spot for fishing boats next to it...
Somebodynobody10 keep in mind that they still have to get to land to start the city. On lower difficulties they could definitely get Stonehenge with a favorable starting location, but deity AI gets too many buffs to compete with
In case you guys didn’t know. The Maori civ most powerful national unit is a flock of Kea parrots. When they attack they unscrew and disassemble the enemies’ constructed units like chariots, catapults, ships etc. You also get the unit generated for free if you manage not to pollute the forest.
Love it :D
Please tell me that's actually true. That is too hilarious to not be in the game.
@@charlesajones77 I wish it was true. But the parrots really do take cars and things apart in New Zealand. Search for "kea parrot funny"
That would actually be hilarious lmao
A Maori with Chichén Itzá and his special construction will have in a rainforest nonhill grassland banana +4 food, +4 production, +4 culture, +2 faith. Is this right?
Sorry, I...I have to clean up after thinking about that.
omg
Then construct an Entertainment Complex with Zoo building to get +1 science for rainforests as well
@@wintertrance GOD STOP I CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE
And choose God of the Sea as pantheon and become suzerain of Auckland. Or the Jungle +1 Faith pantheon (can't remember what it is called). The mind boggles …!
im honestly glad they designed a civilization for people like me who dont really enjoy the chop decision-making. Now i wont feel that i lag behind if i dont chop forests or move magnus from city to city
Vic Rattlehead me too
One thing they may be weak in is getting wonders,at least on higher difficulty or multiplayer
This civ is s+ tier no joke. Better than germany
When you said Greece look like they have a different color that’s because of the new “jersey” system, every civilization has 4 color variants and the one being used in game is picked based on the other civs in the game
Just an interesting observation, the trailer shows at 0:46 that it's turn 50 on quick speed (classical era), the maori has 26 science / 34 culture, 73 gpt, 3 trade routes, researching a classic era civic...
And is only now starting to research writing.
Don't even ask me how you can even get 3 trade routes before researching writing.
Maori had no written language so it makes sense I guess
You get frigates on turn 55-60 3 trades route is achieved with 2 harbors to trigger navigation.
@@benoitdesrosiers8498 Gross and yet fiendishly delightful
The major weakness no one noticed is that they most likely pick their pantheon last.
They have no faith bonus and spending 5 turns finding a location means you do not have a government and civics yet.
They get culture anyway, and getting last pantheon isn't really a big deal.
actually, since they get 2 culture per turn instead of 1, if they found a city before unlocking the first civic they can take the +faith and be the first to get a pantheon, since they are the first to get civics.
and, since they probably dont want to chop their stuff, rushing a pantheon isnt as necessary.
@@PotatoMcWhiskey why?
Unless they settle next to a wonder with faith yields, something they have the luxury of spending a little time looking for.
The amount of time it said “cannot harvest” on the screen with you saying “maybe you don’t want to chop with these guys” and not noticing it was so painful lol. You read the sentence before AND after it too hah
To be fair its basically a footnote in an ecyclopedia sized civilization bonus
Pumps CO2 into the atmosphere. Climate, takes out the most dangerous Civ out for me 😂.
I agree completely, this civ looks super interesting to play. I bet they will need to spawn somewhat near land, so you arent in the center of some massive ocean. It will also be interesting if you cant see any land, because then you really are just shooting off to one direction hoping it leads somewhere good
Requesting Maori archipelago culture victory pls
After playing them multiple times I think the best map type to play them on is actually island plates with low sea level and wet temperature for lots of forests and rainforests
Well I think I found the first civ I will have to try in this expansion
They loook SOO good
If it were up to me, I would put in Charles II as an alternate leader of england in gathering storm. His unique leader ability would be called "The Great Fire" and it would be that after a city has experienced a natural disaster, it gets extra production and extra food. As and AI, his main agenda would be "London's Burning" and it would be that Charles II likes civs that quickly recover from natural disasters and dislikes civs that ignore natural disasters.
Chichen Itza will be broken on a good jungle city
Really scary as the AI if they get all the usual deity bonuses!
In my experience, the AIs don't know how to play Kupe all that well. In one game, they settled their capital on an island completely surrounded by water.
as long as you can get +8 tourism the lack of great writers dosen't matter
Exactly
The Maori's starting bonus pretty much implies that you can still roam for 10-ish turns before you need to settle. Combined with the embarked speed, and you have a lot of choice for your capital's start.
Of course, you also need to explore in those 10 turns, so you might not always get the best position available.
I would say more like 5-8 turns max.
Wow these guys are strong. Def have the ability to circle the globe first.
Don't forget about Hawaii.
@@eduardo3652 No not Hawaii
Sorry Poundmaker, I found my new main
I think that the extra production isn’t necessarily op because yeah you get that +1 production immediately but when other civs get the mills they can catch up, and get that extra production from steel, while conservation takes a lot longer to get to.
That mystery wonder was the 'Great Baths' from Mohenjo-Daro, which you got a glimpse of in the Hungary reveal video (on the right, in Buda's production queue) - seems to be a v. early Ancient Era wonder, comparable to Stonehenge or Hanging Gardens in timing.
Thanks for the review. I like the starting in the ocean mechanic. This civilization now makes me want to buy the dlc.
very interesting civ, can't wait to play them. 3 food, 3 production, 2 culture, 2 faith banana plains hill tile? yes please!
Was already excited the Maori were going to be added in, but this is so cool!
Hi! I'm new to the channel. Shout out to your fans how listed this channel on facebook Civ community. Thanks! Totally worth it!
I wanted to ask about their embarking ability. Unless I missed something (or if they change things) I believe the Maoi's embarked units are actually faster than galleys and might even keep up with longboats. That alone is incredible. Many island-based tribal villages go unnoticed until the late game, in part because you first have to find it with a ship and then route a slow moving land unit to claim it. With the Maori, you can spam scouts to explore land and sea and get all of those tribal villages before you even reach the midevil era. Of course, for a little extra production, you can do that with warriors, locate a vulnerable opponent, upgrade your units to your unique unit and capture a capital or two in the Classical era. You don't have to go full domination, but it never hurts to clear the area of competitors and strike fear in the rest.
Last of all, that attack/defense bonus for embarked units is interesting. I wonder if it is enough for them to hold their own against early naval units. I would also be interested to see if their UU's ability works against naval units. If so, you will want to NOT upgrade them and have your navy escort them through the end of the game so they can level the playing field against other naval UUs.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
ONCE AGAIN my boy 11x the video time and i love it lmao
I'm looking forward to your play through of this civ.
So am I!
@@PotatoMcWhiskey a game with no harvesting and less chopping is interesting for you to play😂
15:51 - They will be adding at least 7 new wonders. If you watch the Hungary trailer, go to the 21-second mark. It shows this wonder listed as "Great Bath". There have been many great baths created throughout history, but the most well-known is in Mohenjo-Daro. That central roof is apparently a water tower, and I'm not sure why there are onion-domes on the sides seeing as this thing was built in 3000 BC (ikr, how...) but I'm pretty sure this is it.
At start, look for spice resources in jungle hills. You will not be disappointed by its yields
The Maori look really interesting, I'd be interesting how they play since you are descuoraged to chop rainforst and woods. And chops are really powerful for key wonders and get your economy rolling. Also the fact that you cannot harvest ressources can be pretty annoying, especially for district placement. Not earning great writers is not too much of a downside because i thing marae makes more than up for it. Especially if also new woods get the bonus culture, faith and tourism. Then late game tourism could be just insane. +4 potential tourism (with computer)on pretty much every tile in your land + tons of national parks you can get with old groth woods and the insane amount of faith seems so powerful.
I would be very suprised if you couldn't place districts on resources, but it might be a thing.
@@PotatoMcWhiskey That's how i understood it, but you're probalby right, otherwise it would be too much of a detriment
I think this civ would be extremely good at finding and obtaining city states, and the free envoy, and goodie huts in the early game, which is another benefit
This will definitely be awesome 👏
I'm going to have fun with these guys
They discussed in the dev play through, when world gen happens normally, in a game with X civs, it generates an amount of land times X; when the maori are in the game they don't get included in that so they have to, settle in whatever's left. that's why they made the early game bonuses so high.
In a Deity game, unless you are super quick, the AI's gonna have 2 cities with a third settler on the way before you make landfall
Imagine a toa moari UU in a pā, with oligarchy slotted in, great general giving a bonus, it's fear thing adding on -5 to opponents, and healing/defense (+4,+5,+4,+hill,+support adjacency?) It's kinda weird to pull of but amazing when done!
I believe that wonder is the great bath, from what i've gathered, i know it gives amenities and has some sort of building requirements, as do all wonders.
This’ll be one of my favourites
Middle Earth OP plz don't nerf
This civ looks so fun, just like Venice in Civ V. A unique civ is always awesome
the most intresting civ so far in civ VI. gonna be fun playing em.
Looks exciting! Between the specific penalties (no writers and no chops) and being so early game focused they might be alright in a feast-or-famine sort of way based on how much they are able to expand in the first few ages. Also, the UU could be limited maybe in the way the Samurai are in that you need to build them directly and can't upgrade them?
Already sounds like def potential favorite. I generally like sea focused nations like Indonesia, but this is just so cool, perhaps a bit too much unless older factions that are kind of meh are getting some buffs
They seem kind of OP even though you can't chop reasorces you get more from them and they get a bunch of bonuses
This Civ is bat sh*t crazy holy cow AND THEY HAVE A BETTER LEGION ERMAGODDD!!!!!
Yeah... 40 Str is the same, except they also have the Haka for an AOE combat strength reduction and their fort heals...
I hope they go around buffing / changing the civs whose unique features are being made obsolete
sepulchure dynarus Yeah me too
Legion + Varu stronk
It makes sense that Moaris have shipbuilding and cartography so early. The Moari were basically in the stone in the 12-15th century but sailed the Pacific Ocean so easily, their technology for boats was crazy for their general technology.
What do you think about a civ that could only build (city center) on mountains or/and hill, it would be fun to play I think and of course the civ would be able to pass the mountains. For example a Tibet, Swiss or Inca's could forfill this role, don't you think.
And I think the ability Grote Rivieren of the netherlands should be adjusted with adding tile flooding in times of war, dutch troops wouldn't take damage and keep there movement. Or by making canals more profitable for the Dutch orby earning canals earlier in the game. I think that it would make more sence. But they might become to powerfull so a down side could be added like an higher vulnerability to sealevel rising or more damage to buildings and buildings by flooding.
What do you think how these adjustments would effect game play or how it could be designed?
Could be fun, I'd have to think about it properly with regards to balance, and I'd need to know more and play more with Gathering Storm to make any balance comments.
This looks like a blast
When it says that resources cannot be harvested... Can resources be replaced by districts or other improvements?
I accept that I wouldn't get the bonus production/food. But can they be removed?
Yo! What do you think about Russia Culture diety?!?! I think The early lavras with the Great writer points(so damn early). I think it’d be fun!
this is a very strong civ, situational at times, but most often it is superior to others, particularly at start.
I think the civs listed on the right @ the screen where you paused longest have changed traits. i saw the english and new hungry civ in a previous vid from the devs
Crazy to think this was 2 years ago!
so marae give bonus from marsh, floodplain, wood, rainforest, reef?, and new tile that give science right? combine unchopped wood with seaside resort is enough strong. 2nd planted wood also good "improvement" than other civ unique improvement like france, mapuche, etc
I guess spices can provide 3/3 or 4/2 bonus as well , if their location is on hill with forest/jungle
This civ is gonna be great, cant wait to set sail
Old video I know, but the Maori homeland that he sailed from is what Hawaii is named after.
This Civ is so obscenely good I love it
With all their faith bonus yields, if you get the government center improvement that allows for military units to be bought with faith you will have a the ability to build a decent army at any location and spare faith to burn when you need to.
I'm so eager to discover them =D
I'm curious how they'd spawn on an inland sea map.
IN THE SEA!
I'm glad they pushed the unique theme by making the civ strong n all but holy damn did they go overkill!
Some of those bonuses are the sort I'd expect in the medieval age or later WITH an improvement - and they get them immediately without any! Which them presumably stacks with normal improvements? Just... mind blown! If only all civs were this powerful!
Quick question to either the comments or PmcW here, are the new 18 units in Gathering Storm all universal, or are some of them unique?
Was there any word on why there are no Australian indigenous civs?
If you chop stuff, that will work toward the water rising, you REALLY don't want to chop when you're capital is on the coast
Somewhat random thought. What would you think about adding trenches to the game. I think they would go a way to making war more interesting and in depth which I believe it needs
Not sure if it would really change much, but it would be interesting.
Samahawk 360 that’s basically what fortifying is
Yeah I remember saying that a year ago it would be cool if they also added landmines and a gas attack unit that makes a tile toxic for a few turns it would make early 20th century war way cooler
There will be a ww1 scenario so they may be coming
I would think it would allow to make clear and fortified front lines that would have large defensive bonuses but would hinder your attacking capability
That wonder is the baths at Mohenjo-Daro if I'm not mistaken.
I wonder how long they'll keep the ability to build those tile improvements outside of their territory
The Maori will be the first in each game to meet all the other civs and have an advantage in finding city states. Also, I think the new wonder next to the theater district is the Great Bath.
I fell like using your first warrior as a 4 movement costal scout could get you a ton of first meets with city states.
The mountain in the ocean could be a volcano that creates a new island later in the game.
It seems like you missed that the Pá can only be built on hills, which is kind of a nerf, but still good
Still really god tier though.
Another interesting change in gameplay as a result of both their start bias and their inability to chop is in the governor selection. I would probably ditch Magnus for the Early game and choose Liang/Reyna instead. Liang initially to rush districts and put fisheries next to my fishing boats. Reyna to maximize the harbor yields that are likely to define the civ's play style.
@16:01 I think that district is rotovegas. I wonder if they'll implement a luge feature on hills! ^_^
They seem fun for an island map with AIs, but since multiplayer is so domination focused and generally only pangea I don't know if they be as good for that.
Can't 'earn' but Great Writers but can they still purchase them? It would be cool if they still kept track of the points and let the Maori purchase them as usual
I don't think starting in the ocean is bad because you can instantly embark anyway. Even if you find you started on a tiny island you can still send a settler out.
I think you forget about Australia, they are a tier one in my book, they encourage you to play the game differently as well, as you focus on appeal. I found myself not chopping woods for that reason. I feel Australia is on par with this civ
I think its going to depend on a lot of things to make this sort of judgement.
Potato's Maori Civ Reaction Reaction: This is a lower mid tier review despite thorough analysis and detailed possible scenarios because he forgot to mention that the Maori cannot remove resources, and as he pointed out in the description it will effect how the Maori can expand and limit the extent of possible unique tile bonuses. Tatey does a good job of realizing the delicate balance between their starting bonuses of essentially free science and production with their.more nebulous start characteristics. He pretty much ejaculates over the Marae bonuses. I'd pay to see that spud pud video. 5/10 reaction video.
Sidenote: The Maori can place a Pa in neutral and their own territory. They are literally a stronger legion that can place a fort outside enemy borders.
Okay this civ looks to be really powerful! My one question is whether this will invalidate Indonesia. I’ve recently grown to love playing them and am a wee bit worried that the Maori might just be a better version of them.
they do not have first pick on pantheon and they do not produce a large amount of ship with faith...
@@benoitdesrosiers8498 I think Indonesia still has a lot going for them as a coastal civ that might help them outpace the Maori. in some situations.
Their money income seemed unusually high in the trailer game. Maybe some big changes in economy side of things?
They start really close to having harbours unlocked.
@@PotatoMcWhiskey They mentioned in recent dev stream that you get "effiency bonus" for trade routes that path trough water or railways, witch can up to double your income from them.
I love the idea of playing as the Maori, but it gave me an idea as to another island cub that’d be fun to play.
Majapahit anyone?
I wonder how long you could sail around. Itd be nice to snag a natural wonder for your capital.
It's OP!!!
As someone who loved Polynesia in civ 5, THIS IS THE BEST FUCKING THING EVER
Really interesting that no chopping means it will be harder to make space for seaside resorts, and no earning of great writers means two of the bedrocks for many culture wins do not exist or at the least are much more scarce. They seem like a top cultural civ, but will involve radically different strategy than typical civs.
Think they will be super fun. But an odd thought, could going for a culture win with them be boring? If you are not earning great writers, not changing your landscape much, are you just waiting around for flight to kick in and your basic land to start earning tourists?
Another interesting impact is with less need to improve your land, it should mean significantly less time spent building builders. Huge opportunity to invest more in wonders/projects that you might skip otherwise.
While it says you cannot earn great writers it does not imply you can't acquire great writings
@@skeletalarkeus5728 The Marae UB for the Theatre District has no Great Work slots, therefore even if you managed to acquire any Great Writers (e.g. buying them outright with Faith) you'd be severely limited where you could use them (Wonders with GWW slots etc.)
Dylan Knight True. You could trade for them. But it says that their amphitheater replacement has no great works slots. Which means the only place you could put them is in your palace/wonders. Pretty limited spots.
At 17:42 is that science yield on a reef?
Does the starting in ocean thing mean that based on scripting you may not have a place to settle because the AI is 10 tiles from you and you need to travel to get to settle? Could make things a little weird if they didn't mess with that
No idea how its going to work until I get my hands on it.
Also, surprised to see the lack of BIONICLE references in the comments, what with their unique unit being named the Toa.
You missed the fact that they get to save all their chops for endgame rocket parts. They got science game too QQ
Pantheon for fishing boats+Auckland=4food 3 production 3 gold?