As he started talking about Cliffs my instinct was F tier, worst natural wonder in the game, and then he says best and I start rethinking my entire evaluation of everything in Civ. Potato got me good.
I feel like they are great in two circumstances. 1. Like he said playing australia, or 2. if you find them early and they have good tiles nearby, maybe some desert hills around them, and some chops in a radius where you can settle and still reach those there are ridiculous petra cities possible.
@@basti2955I played Australia several days ago, and got Sahara el beyda, closest city state to me was Nazca, and I got Desert folklore as belief. I had more than 100 faith in first age, and more than 1000 faith till turn 150. So, I think that if you have desert spawn, you can have excellent faith game and with monumentality you can win till turn 250 easily
The funny thing is Torres del Paine in reality does not give any of those things, it's in a cold place where nothing of food growth, it should give only Tourism
And honestly that's IMO way closer to the "correct" pronunciation than the abomination HowToPronounce gave at 0:12. Tho the closest one is probably Google Translate pronouncing "张掖丹霞" in the original characters.
So Im not fluent but i speak a little mandarin and the google pronunciation is just unbelievable atrocious. Like a native speaker would not understand it at all. The Zh sound is like dg in judge. ye, is like yeh or yeah. Dan is a soft a like you are saying dahn, and lastly xia is similar to sha (although to pronounce correctly you need to put your tongue against your lower teeth). So a bad (but still closer) transliteration might be spelt: Juhngyeah dahnsha
When trying for a science victory I *love* big passable wonders like Pantanal, Chocolate Hills or Gobustan because you can get Darwin and get a bajillion science from his special ability. It's somewhat ironic that he can't get those bonuses from Galapagos Islands.
MrTrellheim - wrere going his science overkill? For example Darwin grabbing 1500 of science, but for technology is only 400 needed. Where goes rest 1100 science?
@@Storkz0re If you know you are going to activate Darwin, tell the game to chain several technologies together. You can do it in the science tree, either by clicking a distant technology (the game automatically chains all the necessary technologies to get what you want) or by shift-clicking on the technologies you want. The excess science after the first one spills over the ones you have chained. I have managed to discover three technologies in one swoop and still get enough science to advance the fourth.
I agree. Chocolat Hills for one should be higher. Not much, but a bit. They are a good wonder. They not only give production but also food. 1 only, and not 2, but compaired to the other diamond shape passable wonders, thats actially quite devent yield. And then you get a bonus 1 science.
Suggestion: All lake Wonders gets regular lake yields and possibly for appropriate resources. All passable wonders gets their yields added to underlying terrain. All desert land Wonders gets the double adjacent yields perk. Cliffs of Dover is changed from a grassland tiles wonder to a coast wonder with same yields added to the 2 coast tiles. Wonders should always be something to strive for no matter witch ones are in the game.
If the Cliffs of Dover were actual cliffs, and you could build Districts on them, they would already be better. You could get +2 adjacency for each side of a hex the cliff is on, up to a +10 ( but on average +6 to +8 ) adjacency and suddenly they're probably C tier.
@Israel Gole They've lost so many parts of what makes them special. I hope the new DLCS have an free update that addresses some of our concerns about the wonders so they actually are wonderful again.
@@basti2955 Yes, you need the Vikings DLC for 3, Australian DLC for 1 and Indonesia & Khmer for 1 according to the Wiki. I haven't played it without the DLCs, so I don't know if any of the others add them. If you like the game and would like some more variation, I'd suggest you get them on sale. Most of the better Civs are in the DLCs, sadly.
ik-kil should be in B-tier. 50% production towards wonders makes a huge difference when trying to compete with AI for some of the wonders. It allows Forbidden City to be chopped in 5 chops with Magnus and +15% policy card, and it allows to compete for wonders that are usually almost impossible to get like Great Library. Plus since it's fresh water and spawns in jungles/forests, it's pretty much always a pretty good spot for a city
It's still crap. It spawns very far from rivers (so no water mills, meaning less overall production). No yields whatsoever, so if you're not building a district/wonder next to it, it is a dead tile that can't be used for ANYTHING. Honestly, even Cliffs of Dover are better than this crap, because atleast CoD provides culture, allowing for maybe an early Apadana.
Cliffs of Dover would be better if they make them a "feature NW", meaning the cliffs are giving yields rather than full tiles, and tiles become improvable.
Yeah really! The Dead Sea is overall useless, but for war games it is the best Natural Wonder in the game. It can mean the difference between easy defeat and a hard earned victory.
There should be a game setting for difficulty Deity+. The + would ensure you ALWAYS spawn next to Cliffs of Dover, and a little sign should be put there on the edge: "These cliffs has beaten more gamers than all versions of civ"
zhangye's +2Great Merchant and +2Great General points are so powerful in the early game, especially since it takes a long time before any other civ has the appropriate districts to earn those points. So you'll get the first 1 or 2 Great People of each without competition... I find it really, really, really, reallyreally* powerful. (*this was my attempt at a Potato McWhiskey impression!)
Do all the tiers! Civs, leaders, wonders, unique units, unique buildings, governors, pantheons, beliefs, city states! This was really entertaining and informative
Several of those 4-tile passable wonders are much better to settle as Kupe, since they count as features and benefit from Marae. Great Barrier Reef, jumps to SS tier for Kupe, though.
I agree with most of your list, but imo, putting Vesuvius in C is a crime. The tile yields from the eruptions around this thing can even surpass those of Incan terrace farms or tiles adjacent to Torres when improved in terms of Food and Production, and there are bonus yields in Science, Faith, and Culture to boot. As long as you don’t settle right next to it and it has enough free tiles around it to proliferate its yields, it can be the absolute best wonder in the entire game due to sheer tile yields, especially in the early mid game (it does get a bit outshined in late game, though). IMO, its major drawback is decently easy to avoid in not placing districts near it, but I understand that it’s a giant one, so I would accept an A tier placing. B or C tier seems way too low for Vesuvius to me, though, for the reasons that I stated above
yes to me all volacnos should be tiers B. The yield become so good with time... And with luck some early explosion followed with a long calm period is really game changer making your city a first world city.
They should make the cliffs of Dover give its bonus to all adjacent tiles and allow it to have district’s or improvements on its tile. Maybe even give it a +1 food in addition to the culture and gold and it’d be a pretty solid wonder.
I find his other tier lists significantly more useful. like... knowing which wonder is goo to build can make you actually build it. you cant really influence which natural wonder is close to your start
I once had the Giant's Causeway spawn in the middle of the ocean with no surrounding land tiles. Even before rising sea levels. Minor oversights with spawns like that are a nitpick of mine. That, and the fact that the Earth map is locked to Standard size.
I had Giant's Causeway attached to an island, so it was only useful as a national park. But the island (where I had built a city) would be somewhere I would visit if it were real.
Dear Potato, for your consideration: In an ottoman game of mine, Cliffs of Dover was spaced between my civ and another civ. I was able to forward settle the opponent civ, grow to three population, and work both dover tiles to rapidly expand this city's borders. Working those tiles rapidly got me to political philosophy, and enabled me to buy more builders than otherwise posible.
NB, and this is probably mentioned somewhere below, but there you go: Let Retba explicitly doesn't give you fresh water. The flavor quote is, "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink." 8-)
3:43 I would argue the fact that it's a volcano is what makes this wonder BETTER, because eruptions actually improve the yields of affected tiles with food and production, so it pairs really well with its bonuses.
I feel like Dead Sea should be an E tier simply because of the one-turn full healing of units. It's not great, but it can be very powerful in some situations.
You know what I really like most about these videos? I'm not observant enough to see and remember what all the wonders do just by playing no matter how many times I play. I know there's a wiki but this is so much easier to watch and absorb. Thank you.
Crater lake is much better than Dover. One tile doesn't waste space. More importantly its fresh water and relative high faith output unimproved make it a perfect place to settle your second city if you're going for a religion.
Eye of the Sahara is good if you can settle 3 cities around it, since it provides 3 tiles with 4 adjacency for holy sites. The yields are bad, but its shape is perfect for adjacency. Combine that with Deserto Folklore and you got some serious faith going on there. It's an excellent wonder to get as Mali. Edit: I'll get the extra movement from the Matterhorn over the Giant's Causeway flat +5 any day. Movement is great, both in the actual combat and to get to your target faster. It helps a lot to be able to go through hills without issues, while your opponent gets stuck on it.
The thing that makes wonders like Yosemite a lot worse is that they have a rule against spawning adjacent to lakes, coast or rivers. Which means that you either settle a city away from fresh water or these tiles will only be workable in the second or third ring, meaning that you need to buy the tiles if you want to work them early in the game. And natural wonder tiles really only make a difference early game. For the same reason I do quite like the Lake natural wonders because they provide water and make cities possible, that otherwise wouldn't have been. That alone is already a big bonus. Plus Huey Teocalli improves their yields, which actually makes them quite decent tiles.
Eyjafjallajokul is actually one of my favourite wonders, it should definitely be A tier. I've had 10-15 food tiles on adjacent tiles everytime I've had it, which to me far outweighs the possible danger of volcanic eruption which again you can mitigate with Liang.
I’d move all the volcanoes up by at least a tier. The eruptions are more likely to improve soils (at least it seems that way) and they can get crazy good yeilds. Just don’t build your city next to them. I don’t mind having to repair an occasional district for the value add the eruptions give.
I think there is one specific occasion where Cliffs of Dover are good and that is - Potato: "Unless you are playing England on the True Start Map." ...Um, nevermind forget I said anything,
Something worth noting is many of the lake wonders now act as coast tiles. This is a huge buff because it allows surrounding tiles to have resorts with high appeal. I played a game awhile back where I had 8 resorts around pink lake! It also is able to take advantage of coastal yield buffs like Ackland and mausoleum at halicarnassus
Once i found Torres del paine 2 tiles away from the mouth of a river as Kupe. The surrounding tiles were Plain Hills with forest in them, and two furs. The production alone was insane, but mixed with kupe's marae and abilities, PLUS the fact that you settle with 2 pops and a builder made my first city an absolute beast that carried me the whole game. i was pumping out settles and galleys like they were scouts
I clicked this video expecting to agree with you mostly, and I was right. I agree with you and basically everything except for that (Icelandic volcano that I don’t remember how to spell) should be a tier up, as well as Galapagos.
Not gonna lie, I really like getting pamukkale early. I think pretty much anyone will be building campuses anyway, so I just snatch those two +4 campuses. The amenity is meh, I never use it, but the easy campuses without the loads of mountains taking up space feels like an early game blessing.
In my opinion, you undervalue the culture wonders. Even the culture wonders that can't be improved or don't give food. If you get them early, you can snowball into important policies. Send it a caravan and it will be full population and giving culture quickly.
@@PotatoMcWhiskey Yeah man, I'd be down for that. I stream for around 4 hours during the week, so that'd be a perfect little slot of time for me. When do you play?
I'd maybe rate the fresh water wonders a tier higher but agreed for the most part. Your intense hatred for the Cliffs of Dover is replaced by my intense hatred for Eye of the Sahara though. You made slightly drunk me laugh his arse off with your ratings for Dover and Crater Lake by the way.
I prefer Matterhorn to Giant's Causeway every day. For me, the bonus toward unit mobility is really hard to duplicate. Sure, the combat bonus isn't as nice, but I usually just slap an encampment next to it, and suddenly I can hunt down bad guys, flee a pursuing army, and always always take the better terrain when I have superior unit mobility. The enemy can match you in combat strength via other means, but nothing else can sail cleanly through hills like an army spawned from Matterhorn. It's not the best wonder, but it's my favorite.
Something i've wondered is if it stacks with the recon bonuses. Recon units are pretty bad until they get Ambush, but double hill movement + ambush + camo could make the most annoying thing ever.
I really wish that they'd include more of the natural wonders from Civ 5, or that there was some way to mod in new natural wonders. I miss Cerro de Potosi, Barringer Crater and Grand Mesa, among others..
I had Uluru In my Capital with Australia once, The city got Petra as well, it was ridicoulus. It also synergizes with Earth goddess even more than the other Wonders, but as u said it only really is good in petra cities.
The anger at Cliffs of Dover, Hurr-durr. But you have to promise us that the next time you find an S tier natural wonder, you have to kill those tiles affected by it. Just for the memz.
Your relationship with Tsingy is my relationship with Torres Del Paine. I think your tier list would be better (not to say that it's bad, it's quite good already) if it treated bad spawn potential more consistently.
Started a game 2 tiles from Mt Roraima the other day. Insane growth, you get all the starting techs in 3 turns and it snowballs until you buy/expand to all the tiles and your population can work them. Even mid to early late game it can hard carry your science to ridiculous levels. Really fun wonder if you can get it early.
I've always felt that the Cliffs of Dover were really easily fixable - just make them workable, or at the very least make them valid tiles for districts. Not sure that Firaxis wants to code in an exception for their land-based wonder tiles. The Terra Mirabilis mod gives all natural wonders a secondary effect, and for Dover it's a minor adjacency bonus (+1 per 2) for cliffs to Harbors. For amateur modders, changing that to a major adjacency bonus (+2 per) might be enough to make The Cliffs less cringe-worthy.
I need to disagree with dead sea. It gives 2 easy +4 holy sites and sea water. It's located in the desert mostly so tile yields are low and water is sparse in some cases. Dead sea isn't a tier but I would consider it E or D
dead sea with a holy site on either side and the desert faith pantheon = insane. had this in my last Mansa playthru and it launched me out the gate with a crazy faith economy
my favourite wonder is pamukale because it got me a holy site that after building all its buildings gave 24 faith a turn and i got a +4 commershal hub on the other side
The last wonder, basicaly it gives you a great general every few eras. Which is +5 combat strengh at least, you don't have to work it. It also gives merchant points. Why is it so low and the giant's thingie so high? Every enemy can get the +5 from giant's wonder, if they just get to it.
Another factor maybe worth considering in climate specific wonders is that the second wonder in the game is almost always worth less than the first; you can salvage the first using a specific wonder, be it a Petra or the Cathedral, etc., but the second one will be near worthless.
Potato have you used/know there is a pretty good mod that adds the base terrain yields to all of the passable uninprovable wonders ( like chocolate hills, dover, etc.) I see many groups use it on high level competitive multiplayer and it seems to really fix the divide that exists while not being to broke, but what do you think
Eyja+Liang+St. Basil's=God Tier. Galapagos+Fishery's=A tier. Giant's Casuseway (with control over it) negates Deity damage bonuses=S-Tier. ONLY with GS where unit's maintain the bonus after upgrading. Il-Kil=C tier if found early on, possibly B (but only because I specifically play Marathon speed games. Why? Because if you have a powerful unique unit or district, you want it to feel unique and powerful for more than 20 turns until "O my immortal is now facing musketmen and is useless", "O my Pitati Archers are suddenly facing crossbowmen on turn 40" Mato Tipila=S tier (again, on Marathon) Matterhorn=A/S tier. It's freaking amazing. Can just about negate Deity bonuses (albeit situational) Mt. Killa=A (if a so-so spawn), S (if a good spawn) Mount Roraim=Spot on analysis. That corner tile can be freaking amazing. Pantenal=Online speed? Spot on. Marathon? Horrible. No production. Uluru/Delicate Arch+Petra=only way these wonders are salvageable. Spot on analysis. Yields to adjacent tiles? Great. "on wonder tiles"? Crap. Honestly the only grievances I have are the wonders I mentioned become a lot more important on Marathon game where a little bit more food and production really shines. Taking a build from 6 turns to 5? Yea I get it, not great. Taking a build from 60 to 50? Yea that adds up over a 1k turn Marathon/Massive/Deity game.
They really need to make the natural Wonder tiles scale with era more. Even in the ancient era most of these arent really anything special when they really should be
I've played Civ 6 for more than a 1000 hours and I have still not come across the following natural wonders: Giant's Causeway, Ha long bay, Lysjeford and Eyjaf...kull. Is that weird? And why is that it's rare for me to see Galpagos and Great Barrier Reef in my games, are they more common on some settings?
I feel like an easy way to fix the negatives of working the garbage stat tiles of wonders would be an amenity bonus. +1 Amenity per tile worked giving a unique benefit to the city and helping out the overall happiness level of your empire. The wonders that provide adjacency bonuses wouldn't get it, only the wonders that you need to work the tiles specifically so that the crappy 3 Culture / 2 Gold Dover Cliffs would be offset by a more productive city.
Hey if you wanted another easier game like the Maori one try playing on a desert map with Mali. Seems like Mali is kind of weak because they have desert at game start and others get better locations but if you try playing them on a desert world it could be pretty cool. I think theming games could be interesting for future let's plays. I.e. pick only AI civs that existed in desert areas for a desert map, or jungle civs on a jungle map, or ocean civs on an ocean map. Just an idea to give each let's play some added flavor.
In my most recent game I played Kongo and spawned right next to Torres. Safe to say I personally pulled a Mbemba a Nzinga and immediately started to believe in the existence of God.
The dessert wonders can be very strong with desert folklore + holy district + work ethic. You can get +20 faith and production from multiple holy districts + science on one with the right great person. Lots of moving pieces but can be put together while still in the early half of the game.
“Cliffs of Dover are arguably the best wonder...”
*hovers towards S*
“...To restart your game!”
*Cliffs of Dover gets disappointed*
As he started talking about Cliffs my instinct was F tier, worst natural wonder in the game, and then he says best and I start rethinking my entire evaluation of everything in Civ. Potato got me good.
That was such a fantastic bait and switch that I did a double take. I was like "Is there something I don't know? The Cliffs are awful."
"Crater Lake on the other hand... is just as bad"
@@atocanboi409 At least Crater Lake only eats a Lake tile and provides Fresh Water.
@@jaeusa160 I was talking about the way he said it
-Wonder spawns in desert
-PotatoMcWhiskey: So you have chosen... low tier
Ironically that scene in Indiana Jones takes place inside Petra
It just makes no sense, desert wonder improve the desert that normally has litterly no yields. So they are not actualy that bad.
@@brampelberg9335 well they turn absolutly shitty tiles into shitty tiles, while other wonders turn good tiles into amazing tiles.
I feel like they are great in two circumstances. 1. Like he said playing australia, or 2. if you find them early and they have good tiles nearby, maybe some desert hills around them, and some chops in a radius where you can settle and still reach those there are ridiculous petra cities possible.
@@basti2955I played Australia several days ago, and got Sahara el beyda, closest city state to me was Nazca, and I got Desert folklore as belief. I had more than 100 faith in first age, and more than 1000 faith till turn 150. So, I think that if you have desert spawn, you can have excellent faith game and with monumentality you can win till turn 250 easily
i live 20 kilometers from Chocolate Hills! Sorry no production there.
aahhahhha
An not even any chocolate >:(
@@chopperhead2012 aaahahaha
At least, we got tarsiers
Kamusta!
"Navies are less useful in general"
-The British empire would like a word with you
When you realise Potato is Irish
cliffs of dover getting a special place below F tier
-Victoria will remember that
about your PURSEonal belongings.
"Are you interested in a trade agreement with England?"
The Netherlands: Am I a joke to you?
You had me in the first half with the cliffs of the dover lmao
Ofc the the irish man bashed the English wonder
The funny thing is Torres del Paine in reality does not give any of those things, it's in a cold place where nothing of food growth, it should give only Tourism
What Tier list should I do Next?
Also like the video plx
Have you ever done a leaders/civilzation tier list like this? if not, that would make a good video :D
World wonders or civ leaders
Leaders
Do a unique building or ability tier list video so it's not just each Civ but their traits seperated and compared.
do leaders
"I'm just gonna call it Xangy Dang"
Hats of to you, made me laugh like a mad man.
And honestly that's IMO way closer to the "correct" pronunciation than the abomination HowToPronounce gave at 0:12.
Tho the closest one is probably Google Translate pronouncing "张掖丹霞" in the original characters.
So Im not fluent but i speak a little mandarin and the google pronunciation is just unbelievable atrocious. Like a native speaker would not understand it at all. The Zh sound is like dg in judge. ye, is like yeh or yeah. Dan is a soft a like you are saying dahn, and lastly xia is similar to sha (although to pronounce correctly you need to put your tongue against your lower teeth). So a bad (but still closer) transliteration might be spelt: Juhngyeah dahnsha
When trying for a science victory I *love* big passable wonders like Pantanal, Chocolate Hills or Gobustan because you can get Darwin and get a bajillion science from his special ability. It's somewhat ironic that he can't get those bonuses from Galapagos Islands.
Well at launch Galapagos was the best he could work on (and i did that in my very first game)
MrTrellheim - wrere going his science overkill? For example Darwin grabbing 1500 of science, but for technology is only 400 needed. Where goes rest 1100 science?
@@Storkz0re If you know you are going to activate Darwin, tell the game to chain several technologies together. You can do it in the science tree, either by clicking a distant technology (the game automatically chains all the necessary technologies to get what you want) or by shift-clicking on the technologies you want. The excess science after the first one spills over the ones you have chained. I have managed to discover three technologies in one swoop and still get enough science to advance the fourth.
I agree. Chocolat Hills for one should be higher.
Not much, but a bit.
They are a good wonder.
They not only give production but also food.
1 only, and not 2, but compaired to the other diamond shape passable wonders, thats actially quite devent yield.
And then you get a bonus 1 science.
@@MrTrellheim thank you very much! Do production overkill also spills like that?
The other day i was playing Sumeria and spawned next to the Giant's Causeway, it was a very short game.
Godly luck
Uhh can I get your settings and seed for that game?
Beep beep!
I’m playing as France near the Great Barrier Reef. Should I capitalize on the natural wonder?
@@natevanslyke3460 i would also like those
Suggestion:
All lake Wonders gets regular lake yields and possibly for appropriate resources.
All passable wonders gets their yields added to underlying terrain.
All desert land Wonders gets the double adjacent yields perk.
Cliffs of Dover is changed from a grassland tiles wonder to a coast wonder with same yields added to the 2 coast tiles.
Wonders should always be something to strive for no matter witch ones are in the game.
If the Cliffs of Dover were actual cliffs, and you could build Districts on them, they would already be better. You could get +2 adjacency for each side of a hex the cliff is on, up to a +10 ( but on average +6 to +8 ) adjacency and suddenly they're probably C tier.
@@huangzhenglong8985
You're thinking of just making it white special cliffs and the adjacency bonus was just for Religious districts?
@Israel Gole
They've lost so many parts of what makes them special.
I hope the new DLCS have an free update that addresses some of our concerns about the wonders so they actually are wonderful again.
Israel Gole to see all of those you also need the two Expansions and maybe even some of those smaller DLCs, forgot how they are called.
@@basti2955
Yes, you need the Vikings DLC for 3, Australian DLC for 1 and Indonesia & Khmer for 1 according to the Wiki.
I haven't played it without the DLCs, so I don't know if any of the others add them.
If you like the game and would like some more variation, I'd suggest you get them on sale.
Most of the better Civs are in the DLCs, sadly.
ik-kil should be in B-tier. 50% production towards wonders makes a huge difference when trying to compete with AI for some of the wonders. It allows Forbidden City to be chopped in 5 chops with Magnus and +15% policy card, and it allows to compete for wonders that are usually almost impossible to get like Great Library. Plus since it's fresh water and spawns in jungles/forests, it's pretty much always a pretty good spot for a city
Dmitry S agree
Agreed. No idea what he was thinking here.
Very good points, should defo be C tier at least
It's still crap. It spawns very far from rivers (so no water mills, meaning less overall production). No yields whatsoever, so if you're not building a district/wonder next to it, it is a dead tile that can't be used for ANYTHING. Honestly, even Cliffs of Dover are better than this crap, because atleast CoD provides culture, allowing for maybe an early Apadana.
That's quite a lot of extra groundwork, so I'd say more C.
Cliffs of Dover would be better if they make them a "feature NW", meaning the cliffs are giving yields rather than full tiles, and tiles become improvable.
Would be better if it was a coastal wonder rather than a land wonder. That way the land tiles could be workable
Spuddie forgets how dead sea basically saved his true earth deity level game.
Yeah really! The Dead Sea is overall useless, but for war games it is the best Natural Wonder in the game. It can mean the difference between easy defeat and a hard earned victory.
Deep in our hearts we know cliffs of dover is the best wonder
This user was banned for this heresy :^)
It's a wonder more people don't commit suicide jumping off of
@@JeffTaylor-tr7my made me laugh. thanks
There should be a game setting for difficulty Deity+. The + would ensure you ALWAYS spawn next to Cliffs of Dover, and a little sign should be put there on the edge: "These cliffs has beaten more gamers than all versions of civ"
@@PotatoMcWhiskey will you make a new list if all frontier dlc are out?
zhangye's +2Great Merchant and +2Great General points are so powerful in the early game, especially since it takes a long time before any other civ has the appropriate districts to earn those points. So you'll get the first 1 or 2 Great People of each without competition... I find it really, really, really, reallyreally* powerful.
(*this was my attempt at a Potato McWhiskey impression!)
Do all the tiers! Civs, leaders, wonders, unique units, unique buildings, governors, pantheons, beliefs, city states! This was really entertaining and informative
Several of those 4-tile passable wonders are much better to settle as Kupe, since they count as features and benefit from Marae. Great Barrier Reef, jumps to SS tier for Kupe, though.
Well, yeah, but let's face it... almost EVERYTHING is better as Kupe, haha.
I agree with most of your list, but imo, putting Vesuvius in C is a crime. The tile yields from the eruptions around this thing can even surpass those of Incan terrace farms or tiles adjacent to Torres when improved in terms of Food and Production, and there are bonus yields in Science, Faith, and Culture to boot. As long as you don’t settle right next to it and it has enough free tiles around it to proliferate its yields, it can be the absolute best wonder in the entire game due to sheer tile yields, especially in the early mid game (it does get a bit outshined in late game, though). IMO, its major drawback is decently easy to avoid in not placing districts near it, but I understand that it’s a giant one, so I would accept an A tier placing. B or C tier seems way too low for Vesuvius to me, though, for the reasons that I stated above
Vesuvius kills so many pops though. Since I play where volcanos hit 2 tiles away
yes to me all volacnos should be tiers B. The yield become so good with time... And with luck some early explosion followed with a long calm period is really game changer making your city a first world city.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Liang/vesuvius combo work beautifully with her reinforced materials promotion?
@@thehistoryrevisionguy-de5208 IIRC Liang only keeps the tiles from being damaged, it doesn’t stop the population from getting killed.
@@KingCliveThe17th ah okay cool, I've been wondering what the catch is with that ability....
Lake Retba doesn’t even give you fresh water!
Read the quote that goes with it :(
oops
PotatoMcWhiskey it’s okay, I’m not salty about it
@@aidanabregov1412 i see what you did there 🧐
@Northern Light dead sea shouldn't give you fresh water to be fair. Its salt content is way to high to be use for agriculture.
Lake Retba might be a straight up DETRIMENT to your Civ because it doesn't even provide that housing bonus! Complete waste of tiles.
They should make the cliffs of Dover give its bonus to all adjacent tiles and allow it to have district’s or improvements on its tile. Maybe even give it a +1 food in addition to the culture and gold and it’d be a pretty solid wonder.
If it gave it's bonuses to adjacent, it would immediately be B tier or better.
hey this is actually a useful tier list
I find his other tier lists significantly more useful. like... knowing which wonder is goo to build can make you actually build it. you cant really influence which natural wonder is close to your start
I once had the Giant's Causeway spawn in the middle of the ocean with no surrounding land tiles. Even before rising sea levels.
Minor oversights with spawns like that are a nitpick of mine. That, and the fact that the Earth map is locked to Standard size.
I had Giant's Causeway attached to an island, so it was only useful as a national park. But the island (where I had built a city) would be somewhere I would visit if it were real.
Dear Potato, for your consideration: In an ottoman game of mine, Cliffs of Dover was spaced between my civ and another civ. I was able to forward settle the opponent civ, grow to three population, and work both dover tiles to rapidly expand this city's borders. Working those tiles rapidly got me to political philosophy, and enabled me to buy more builders than otherwise posible.
NB, and this is probably mentioned somewhere below, but there you go: Let Retba explicitly doesn't give you fresh water. The flavor quote is, "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink." 8-)
Played the game for about 300 hours now, didn't see half of these wonders.
SEEN ALL THE DESERT WONDERS THO.
So Potato, is Great Barrier S-Tier?
Potato: Well yes, but actually no...but actually yes
3:43 I would argue the fact that it's a volcano is what makes this wonder BETTER, because eruptions actually improve the yields of affected tiles with food and production, so it pairs really well with its bonuses.
My last game as Sweden had a flat Tundra Torres Del Paine. That was paineful.
place forest and later lumbermills on this tiles and you will be more thankful for that natural wonder.
@@Ansprechen_und_Aufklären_1 you can't put improved tiles in national parks
I feel like Dead Sea should be an E tier simply because of the one-turn full healing of units. It's not great, but it can be very powerful in some situations.
Then i 1st time settled near cliffs of Dover and realized it cant be improved...like " it was that moment then he knew, he fucked up"
True Mediterranean Sea start map as Britain :(
You know what I really like most about these videos? I'm not observant enough to see and remember what all the wonders do just by playing no matter how many times I play. I know there's a wiki but this is so much easier to watch and absorb. Thank you.
Crater lake is much better than Dover. One tile doesn't waste space. More importantly its fresh water and relative high faith output unimproved make it a perfect place to settle your second city if you're going for a religion.
keep watching
Crater lake = Easy pantheon
Activating Charles Darwin in the middle of Crater Lake is a nice way to get a free tech or two
Eye of the Sahara is good if you can settle 3 cities around it, since it provides 3 tiles with 4 adjacency for holy sites. The yields are bad, but its shape is perfect for adjacency. Combine that with Deserto Folklore and you got some serious faith going on there. It's an excellent wonder to get as Mali.
Edit: I'll get the extra movement from the Matterhorn over the Giant's Causeway flat +5 any day. Movement is great, both in the actual combat and to get to your target faster. It helps a lot to be able to go through hills without issues, while your opponent gets stuck on it.
Halong bay is S tier just for the aesthetic, damn the yields.
The thing that makes wonders like Yosemite a lot worse is that they have a rule against spawning adjacent to lakes, coast or rivers. Which means that you either settle a city away from fresh water or these tiles will only be workable in the second or third ring, meaning that you need to buy the tiles if you want to work them early in the game. And natural wonder tiles really only make a difference early game.
For the same reason I do quite like the Lake natural wonders because they provide water and make cities possible, that otherwise wouldn't have been. That alone is already a big bonus. Plus Huey Teocalli improves their yields, which actually makes them quite decent tiles.
Eyjafjallajokul is actually one of my favourite wonders, it should definitely be A tier. I've had 10-15 food tiles on adjacent tiles everytime I've had it, which to me far outweighs the possible danger of volcanic eruption which again you can mitigate with Liang.
Damn that Mount Vesuvius yields are insane.
It was so surreal seeing that Matterhorn picture in a video, I had taken it ages ago!
I tried to use some pics from reddit so that if /r/civ users were watching they would get a kick out of it!
Remember, 2 similar things can both be on the same tier. One doesn't have to drop to make room for another
6:28 this is probably the best civ 6 tip I ever received and single-handedly made me play so much better
I’d move all the volcanoes up by at least a tier. The eruptions are more likely to improve soils (at least it seems that way) and they can get crazy good yeilds. Just don’t build your city next to them. I don’t mind having to repair an occasional district for the value add the eruptions give.
Playing as Kupe, Galapagos Islands+Auckland+God of the Sea+Mausoleum of Halicarnasus=Maniacal Laughter
The start of this was brutal with those low tiers, you almost had me crying with laughter. Guess our sense of humour lines up.
I think there is one specific occasion where Cliffs of Dover are good and that is -
Potato: "Unless you are playing England on the True Start Map."
...Um, nevermind forget I said anything,
One of my most memorable games was with Sahara el beyda and Petra.
The yields on that city after a few sandstorms were mind boggling.
Something worth noting is many of the lake wonders now act as coast tiles. This is a huge buff because it allows surrounding tiles to have resorts with high appeal. I played a game awhile back where I had 8 resorts around pink lake! It also is able to take advantage of coastal yield buffs like Ackland and mausoleum at halicarnassus
Once i found Torres del paine 2 tiles away from the mouth of a river as Kupe. The surrounding tiles were Plain Hills with forest in them, and two furs. The production alone was insane, but mixed with kupe's marae and abilities, PLUS the fact that you settle with 2 pops and a builder made my first city an absolute beast that carried me the whole game. i was pumping out settles and galleys like they were scouts
Tsingy is in Madagascar, why the hell would it spawn in tundra tiles
Edit: global warming i guess
I clicked this video expecting to agree with you mostly, and I was right. I agree with you and basically everything except for that (Icelandic volcano that I don’t remember how to spell) should be a tier up, as well as Galapagos.
spawn near it as Ashe and it is the best Wonder in the game..either that or Torres del Paine.
Not gonna lie, I really like getting pamukkale early. I think pretty much anyone will be building campuses anyway, so I just snatch those two +4 campuses. The amenity is meh, I never use it, but the easy campuses without the loads of mountains taking up space feels like an early game blessing.
Very informative. Can you do this for era wonders too? Or have you already?
You could say this video is pretty
S TIER
Thanks I thought of it myself
I posted this same thing in discord
thought you were gonna say wondrous
In my opinion, you undervalue the culture wonders. Even the culture wonders that can't be improved or don't give food. If you get them early, you can snowball into important policies. Send it a caravan and it will be full population and giving culture quickly.
love the energy that was brought to this one
Finally, UA-cam recommended me someone great! Not an odd video from 12 years ago
I love Potatoes and McWhiskey
Sounds like whiskey from McDonald's
you're a natural wonder tierlist! I feel like all those F tier wonders would be a lot better with a single food yield.
How can your channel be made of such widely varying content and still be so consistently good? Goddamn, potato
I'm a literal god
@@PotatoMcWhiskey It's the only explanation I can think of. Damn, now I want to play more Civ 6...
@@Aldrahill should hop on for MP if you've got 4 hours sometime
@@PotatoMcWhiskey Yeah man, I'd be down for that. I stream for around 4 hours during the week, so that'd be a perfect little slot of time for me. When do you play?
Not often, shall have to get in touch on discord
I'd maybe rate the fresh water wonders a tier higher but agreed for the most part.
Your intense hatred for the Cliffs of Dover is replaced by my intense hatred for Eye of the Sahara though.
You made slightly drunk me laugh his arse off with your ratings for Dover and Crater Lake by the way.
I prefer Matterhorn to Giant's Causeway every day. For me, the bonus toward unit mobility is really hard to duplicate. Sure, the combat bonus isn't as nice, but I usually just slap an encampment next to it, and suddenly I can hunt down bad guys, flee a pursuing army, and always always take the better terrain when I have superior unit mobility. The enemy can match you in combat strength via other means, but nothing else can sail cleanly through hills like an army spawned from Matterhorn. It's not the best wonder, but it's my favorite.
Agree, great video, but the mobility bonus puts Matterhorn at least in A tier for me
Something i've wondered is if it stacks with the recon bonuses. Recon units are pretty bad until they get Ambush, but double hill movement + ambush + camo could make the most annoying thing ever.
I really wish that they'd include more of the natural wonders from Civ 5, or that there was some way to mod in new natural wonders. I miss Cerro de Potosi, Barringer Crater and Grand Mesa, among others..
There's a mod on the workshop called "Terra Mirabilis" which does exactly what you say here :D
@@octopusspaghetti3955 Oh, great thanks!
Thanks for this; and with such clean presentation. Was hoping you'd do this!
I had Uluru In my Capital with Australia once, The city got Petra as well, it was ridicoulus. It also synergizes with Earth goddess even more than the other Wonders, but as u said it only really is good in petra cities.
Its amazing with Aus and Petra, pretty shit without.
The anger at Cliffs of Dover, Hurr-durr. But you have to promise us that the next time you find an S tier natural wonder, you have to kill those tiles affected by it. Just for the memz.
Your relationship with Tsingy is my relationship with Torres Del Paine. I think your tier list would be better (not to say that it's bad, it's quite good already) if it treated bad spawn potential more consistently.
Started a game 2 tiles from Mt Roraima the other day. Insane growth, you get all the starting techs in 3 turns and it snowballs until you buy/expand to all the tiles and your population can work them. Even mid to early late game it can hard carry your science to ridiculous levels. Really fun wonder if you can get it early.
Poggers! Now we need a tierlist for combat units papi
I've always felt that the Cliffs of Dover were really easily fixable - just make them workable, or at the very least make them valid tiles for districts.
Not sure that Firaxis wants to code in an exception for their land-based wonder tiles.
The Terra Mirabilis mod gives all natural wonders a secondary effect, and for Dover it's a minor adjacency bonus (+1 per 2) for cliffs to Harbors. For amateur modders, changing that to a major adjacency bonus (+2 per) might be enough to make The Cliffs less cringe-worthy.
Cliffs of Dover should've had a tier of shame honestly. Putting them below F wasnt enough.
Very Helpful though, thanks.
You gotta do a new version of this with all the new wonders like bermuda, fountain of youth etc
Welp, this is the first time I realized that I can plug Liang into a Vesuvius city. Thanks Potato.
He really underestimates volcano's, they give tile the best yields you will ever get in a game.
I need to disagree with dead sea. It gives 2 easy +4 holy sites and sea water. It's located in the desert mostly so tile yields are low and water is sparse in some cases. Dead sea isn't a tier but I would consider it E or D
Also, in a culture game you get some wicked sea side resorts
The healing makes any city by it almost unconquerable
dead sea with a holy site on either side and the desert faith pantheon = insane. had this in my last Mansa playthru and it launched me out the gate with a crazy faith economy
my favourite wonder is pamukale because it got me a holy site that after building all its buildings gave 24 faith a turn and i got a +4 commershal hub on the other side
0:44
that tease tho. 🔥
Shoutout to Eyjafjallajökull. Very good pronounciation dude :)
I tried very hard
The last wonder, basicaly it gives you a great general every few eras. Which is +5 combat strengh at least, you don't have to work it. It also gives merchant points. Why is it so low and the giant's thingie so high? Every enemy can get the +5 from giant's wonder, if they just get to it.
Another factor maybe worth considering in climate specific wonders is that the second wonder in the game is almost always worth less than the first; you can salvage the first using a specific wonder, be it a Petra or the Cathedral, etc., but the second one will be near worthless.
Bruh they way you baited me on cliffs of Dover and Crater lake cracked me tf up. Good vid lol
Potato have you used/know there is a pretty good mod that adds the base terrain yields to all of the passable uninprovable wonders ( like chocolate hills, dover, etc.) I see many groups use it on high level competitive multiplayer and it seems to really fix the divide that exists while not being to broke, but what do you think
Do city state tier list and separate them by their types like science type and religious type etc
You did a pretty good Job with Eyjafjallajökull :D
Awesome video, can't wait to see more.
How he hypes them up first then brings them down is funny.
Eyja+Liang+St. Basil's=God Tier.
Galapagos+Fishery's=A tier.
Giant's Casuseway (with control over it) negates Deity damage bonuses=S-Tier. ONLY with GS where unit's maintain the bonus after upgrading.
Il-Kil=C tier if found early on, possibly B (but only because I specifically play Marathon speed games. Why? Because if you have a powerful unique unit or district, you want it to feel unique and powerful for more than 20 turns until "O my immortal is now facing musketmen and is useless", "O my Pitati Archers are suddenly facing crossbowmen on turn 40"
Mato Tipila=S tier (again, on Marathon)
Matterhorn=A/S tier. It's freaking amazing. Can just about negate Deity bonuses (albeit situational)
Mt. Killa=A (if a so-so spawn), S (if a good spawn)
Mount Roraim=Spot on analysis. That corner tile can be freaking amazing.
Pantenal=Online speed? Spot on. Marathon? Horrible. No production.
Uluru/Delicate Arch+Petra=only way these wonders are salvageable.
Spot on analysis. Yields to adjacent tiles? Great. "on wonder tiles"? Crap.
Honestly the only grievances I have are the wonders I mentioned become a lot more important on Marathon game where a little bit more food and production really shines. Taking a build from 6 turns to 5? Yea I get it, not great. Taking a build from 60 to 50? Yea that adds up over a 1k turn Marathon/Massive/Deity game.
Just subscribed I always forget to do it and I enjoy your content. I got better with your videos thanks a lot :)
Thanks for doing this list Tado, much appreciated 👍
They really need to make the natural
Wonder tiles scale with era more. Even in the ancient era most of these arent really anything special when they really should be
I've played Civ 6 for more than a 1000 hours and I have still not come across the following natural wonders: Giant's Causeway, Ha long bay, Lysjeford and Eyjaf...kull. Is that weird? And why is that it's rare for me to see Galpagos and Great Barrier Reef in my games, are they more common on some settings?
I think there are DLC
@@huelma012 Thank you, yes I did realise that after a little while. With the recent update, I got myself all the old dlcs and it's great!
Pantanal + Charles Darwin is beautiful for Science victory. We're talking 2 free industrial era techs, plus some.
Hahahah "You know what, I'm swapping these. I've made my decision". Way to draw your boundaries Potato!
It's no Filthy Robot's Civ V tier list video, but it's alright.
I miss him :(
@@SidMajors he still streams.
not civ though
Matthew McNeany yeah I think I saw him play TWW2 a lot now.
More tier lists please!
I did not knew that I needed this video
I feel like an easy way to fix the negatives of working the garbage stat tiles of wonders would be an amenity bonus. +1 Amenity per tile worked giving a unique benefit to the city and helping out the overall happiness level of your empire. The wonders that provide adjacency bonuses wouldn't get it, only the wonders that you need to work the tiles specifically so that the crappy 3 Culture / 2 Gold Dover Cliffs would be offset by a more productive city.
Hey if you wanted another easier game like the Maori one try playing on a desert map with Mali. Seems like Mali is kind of weak because they have desert at game start and others get better locations but if you try playing them on a desert world it could be pretty cool.
I think theming games could be interesting for future let's plays. I.e. pick only AI civs that existed in desert areas for a desert map, or jungle civs on a jungle map, or ocean civs on an ocean map. Just an idea to give each let's play some added flavor.
Never been so early to a potato video.
In my most recent game I played Kongo and spawned right next to Torres. Safe to say I personally pulled a Mbemba a Nzinga and immediately started to believe in the existence of God.
The dessert wonders can be very strong with desert folklore + holy district + work ethic. You can get +20 faith and production from multiple holy districts + science on one with the right great person. Lots of moving pieces but can be put together while still in the early half of the game.