Final Fantasy Tactics didn't copy Tactics Ogre, they were both created by the same man, Yasumi Matsuno. He would go on to create the masterpiece Vagrant Story and was heavily involved in Final Fantasy 12. More recently he was behind Crimson Shroud on the 3DS which boasts very interesting game design, to say the least.
Yeah you’re right I definitely botched my word choice and wish I could change it, copied wasn’t a good way to put it. I more meant that it used a lot of elements from Tactics Ogre which was definitely in their right to do so considering it was directed by the same person, something I should have verbally mentioned. We did add a little note in the lower left corner during that segment that does mention that though and tries to rectify the error in what I said, not sure if you saw that or not
One element of combat that was only touched on briefly here that I think can add a lot to a game is the ability to create builds and spec the members of your party in unique ways. This is something that is very common in WRPGs, but is sort of hit or miss as to whether something like that is present in a JRPG. A lot of the time characters have a very set role and will level in a predetermined way, but I really appreciate the games that allow you to customize your party members' abilities and create powerful builds and synergies. The Trails series was great at this from the very start with Trails in the Sky and the orbment and quartz system, but your options only expand as things like master quartz were added in later games. Sure, in many of the games you can create absolutely broken builds that are super OP, but that's a fun reward for really digging into the system and spec'ing a character in a cool way.
This is some high quality content and deserves way more views. I appreciate the enormous variety of game footage you used. Don't see things like Temco Secret of the Stars very often.
Thank you! Yeah we like to show some love towards some of the more obscure titles occasionally rather than just solely focusing on the more popular series like Final Fantasy and whatnot
I really appreciate you using endgame footage for these demonstrations. So many videos like this only show combat in the first third of the game where non of the nuance or technical mechanics really matter, but here the footage was really interesting to watch to see how the combat ends up in these games!
I definitely don't have a preference for any particular sub genre. Action, Strategy, Turn Based, etc. They're all good to me so long as the game overall is good. I will say though Final Fantasy XIII's combat to me was incredibly fun. It really was a unique take on the ATB systems and somewhat job systems. I get that in standard encounters there wasn't much depth, but for bosses, switching strats on the fly was great, you felt like you were actually controlling a unit. You could even take it at face value or really dive into it with the right set ups, individual animation frames etc. So you could get as into it as you wanted to!
Definitely feel you there, there just weren’t as many action RPGs back in the day so I feel that most people who grew up playing jrpgs are always gonna have a soft spot for turn based and tactical as that’s mainly what we got back then. Action RPGs in more modern times have been a lot of fun though!
@@GamingBroductions We literally used to just refer to "Turn-Based RPGs" as "RPGs", and the Action games got the extra name in front, "Action RPGs". Turn-Based was just the "default", and I never even heard the term "Turn-Based" until some time in the 2010's.
I gotta agree that turn-based battles are generally my favorite type of combat for RPGs. Like you said, Grandia and Paper Mario are some great examples of how to make turn-based combat more dynamic. I will say I think Tales of Symphonia has probably my favorite battle system in any RPG though, it's just so much fun!
+1 for more turn based love! Tales of Symphonia indeed has an amazing battle system. Actually been replaying that one recently for an upcoming retrospective and am having so much fun with it, the battle system obviously isn’t as complex as some later 3d tales games but I think that’s exactly what I love about it as it’s simpler to understand while still providing you with a lot of options and strategy. Sometimes less is more! Expect a vid on that one soon 👌
@@GamingBroductions Can't wait! Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games of all time, so I'd love to hear you guys' thoughts on it! I couldn't agree more on the "less is more thing" by the way. The newer Tales games have way too much going on for my taste, I think Symphonia hit that perfect balance between deep and straightforward.
It actually boggles my mind that no one else has really gone the Grandia route with their combat. In fact, if there was ever going to be a modern AAA Turn-Based RPG, Grandia's battle system seems like the obvious foundation to start from, to get those "trailerable" flashy combat moments.
When I got into rpgs I was introduced through a lot of turn based games and then shifted to strategy games. I loved them but before this I was so into action games for a more reactive gameplay experience. When I found out about action rpgs like tales, xenoblade, star ocean and kingdom hearts I was so excited. This is definitely my favourite game genre but I still love rpgs in general.
Thank you! Yeah they’re definitely more of a hybrid in my eyes due to their combination of exploration and gameplay styles. Wish we got more series or games that played like them tbh!
I'm actually dumbfounded by this (in the opposite direction that you are). They are absolutely Action JRPGs. Random encounters are a completely separate mechanism from Turn-Based battles, and can exist in any genre that has combat. They are Action JRPGs with Random Encounters, just like the older Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games are Turn-Based JRPGs with Random Encounters. Also, having party members (while nonsensical in an Action game, IMO) has nothing to do with it being Action/Turn-Based.
@@guruthosamarthruin4459 I agree. To me, just because exploration and battles don't happen in the same screen it doesn't mean that they aren't action RPGs. Saying that is the same as considering Chrono Trigger an Action RPG simply because the battles happen in the map itself.
@@Daniel_Rodrigues_89 Although, TECHNICALLY, they don't. Chrono Trigger just tricks you into thinking they do, by making the battle screen look identical to where you encountered them. That's why every battle in the game takes place at a set location. You run into the enemy, then they run to a set position, then the identical battle screen loads.
@@guruthosamarthruin4459 True, that was such an interesting and creative way of dealing with the limitations at the time - and, of course, such a minor detail would make even less difference for something such as defining a game's genre.
Great video! I was playing Ys Origin for the first time and loving it while watching! Growing up, I saw my cousin's playing Final Fantasy 2 (FF4) on SNES and I wanted to play it too, but I was too young to fully understand how to play as I couldn't read at the time. Nonetheless, watching my relatives play a turn-based RPG for the first time and then seeing Chrono Trigger, FF3, Suikoden 2, I was hooked and loved what I thought was all RPGs at the time. Little did I know that I was going to come across games like Terranigma or Secret of Mana on SNES, or even Brave Fencer Musashi on demo disc from a PlayStation magazine. Instantly, I fell in love with Action RPGs. Growing into a teenager, I was much more into "mature" RPGs and ARPGs, such as Diablo 1&2 on PC and Star Ocean 2 on PS1. Getting into Fire Emblem on the Gameboy Advance was easy after watching my cousin go through Final Fantasy Tactics on PS1, and that, having sparked my interest in Strategy RPGs, propelled me to explore more of the genre. Lastly, I got into Final Fantasy Tactics Advance on the GBA and Shining Force 1&2 on the Sega Genesis, as they were my very first foray into the wonderful world of grid-by-grid movement in Tactical/Strategy RPGs. Nowadays, I bounce back and forth between RPGs (card games included, like Pokemon Trading Card Game and Yu-Gi-Oh TCG) and ARPGs like Shining Resonance Refrain, the new remake of Trials of Mana, or Ys Origin and Ys 9: Monstrum Nox. Thanks for a great look at some of your favourites and thanks for giving me the opportunity to gush about the RPG games I grew up loving!
Im a big SMT fan so I throughly enjoy the turn-based systems of Persona and any of the SMT games that have come out. I also enjoy Tactical rpgs, my favorite being Makai Kingdom by NIS. I enjoy the fact that movement isnt confined to squares and is instead a radius around characters. Its also fun to see how you can tweak the cones, cylinders, spheres, etc of your attack radius to hit as many enemies as possible, along with the other fun aspects of character creation and battle map exploration
Great video as always. Shin Megami Tensei II has my favorite battle system, not necessarily because of how engaging for the player it is, but because it creates such badass imagery. I love that all of my party members usually end up with a sword in one hand and a shotgun or an uzi in the other. That's not to mention all the demons fighting alongside your posse as well who only add to the unique aesthetic of being a demon summoner in Neo Tokyo. SMT II introduced the HP attacks mechanic, which I still think is one of the best ways to get non-casters involved in meaningful special attacks without introducing a separate resource pool. The auto battle really pairs well with special ammo to make weak random encounters trivial, and demon negotiation has always presented you with more combat options that your traditional JRPG. The battles are usually quick enough that I can focus on what I love about the game: groovin' to that ost and filling out the maps.
I enjoyed the video! For combat systems, I love the initiative track and interrupt mechanics of Grandia. A more recent game, For the King, uses an initiative track as well and it adds a lot of depth to the combat. FTK also provides a way for status effects to be useful, even against bosses, which is great. I don't gravitate toward action RPGs, but the recent Tales of Arise has action combat that feels really good. The super moves, combined with the way you can call allies in to continue you combo, or switch between characters on the fly, makes for some badass moments.
This was a really fun vid, talk about a nostalgia trip! Chrono Trigger, Dragon Quest, Lunar, Final Fantasy Tactics, Phantasy Star, Super Mario RPG, etc. Best of all, you even gave a shoutout to SHINING FORCE!!! Great walk down memory lane, my childhood thanks you. :D
I thought Vagrant Story is one of the first hybrid action/turn based combat. You fight in the same screen and you choose spell/skills via menu. You can also avoid combat if you want to. You strategise your attack via different weapon types and element types.
Really well made video. I can just imagine how much work it was. I really liked how you animated 3 games besides each other with text underneath. And the topic is also really nice. I am a JRPG fan :) or RPG´s in general. Interesting to see such old JRPGs
a game that I never hear anyone talk about with a very unique combat system is Hybrid Heaven. Made by Konami, so its a JRPG, it had a really weird mix of action and turn based combat. you had a power gauge that filled up and when it was full you could initiate an attack. the combat was all martial arts, so you could punch with either arm, kick with either leg, and there were also grapple maneuvers. when the enemy was attacking it would flash a warning an pause time and you could choose to block with a specific part of your body or step in a direction to dodge the attack. One of the interesting parts was your strength and defense were based on all these parts of the body. so if you threw a lot of right hooks and jabs your right arm would get higher strength, but your other limbs wouldn't grow. get hit a lot on a specific arm or leg and it'll grow in defense. when in a tough fight you might choose to dodge when a hit is coming for a weak limb and in an easy fight you might want to purposely take some block hits on a weaker arm to grind its defense up. I wish it had a re-release or a sequel so everyone could see how unique it was. it wasn't the most amazing game and the story was weak (you get kidnapped and replaced with a clone and you're in some lab where there are lots of weird cloned animal experiments combined with human DNA so they fight like humans and you're just trying to stop them and get out), but it is truly a unique combat experience that I have not seen anything else try.
I think it took until I played FFX for me to realise what was missing for me in traditional JRPGs before it. Without building a game around the player knowing for sure when the opponent would next get a turn, and wthout having reliable status effect moves, it felt like the games were going out of their way to not "let" you get strategic. The only strategy would come OUTSIDE of battle, whereas actual battle just felt like a game of Simon Says that was so staightforward, that frankly the main decider about whether or not you'd win was just if your number was big enough.
That’s a really great way to put it, well said. Hard to plan a strategy when you have no idea if you’re even gonna be able to get a healing spell off in time before an enemy attack and stuff like that. Some old school RPGs were the absolute worst with this where if an enemy died before a character acted that was targeted to attack them, they would just do nothing. Drove me crazy lol. With status effects, it seems like more recent JRPGs are starting to utilize them moreso than the past at least so I really hope this keeps up.
Xenogears actually began it's development at Square as a FF7 proposal and was being made at the same time by the same studio as FF7, so I think that doesn't work as an example of the "FF7 effect" you were trying to illustrate i.e. how influential it's popularity was on games developed after it. Both games began production at Square around the same time, FF7 with a staff 4 to 5 times larger than Xenogears, with FF7 taking just over a year and Xenogears on a 2 year development cycle that saw it releasing approximately 1 year after FF7.
Thanks! Would love to cover some of the Mario RPGs in a more detailed retrospective at some point. In the meantime, our next video coming out in the next 1-2 days does have one of those games featured in its own segment.
Excellent video! I'm currently playing Ys VIII for my ARPG, Trails Series for my turn based and use my 3DS for my dungeon crawlers (SMT, Etrian Odyssey and SRPGS like Fire Emblem.
Glad to see the love for Ogre Battle 64! I actually didn't play it until like 2015, and the learning curve was steep, but it truly is a great game and I've never played anything else quite like it.
I’m glad the battle system in Legend of Legaia got a shoutout. I feel like the secret combos could still be implemented if they were randomized in each game.
It's hard for me to say I prefer one style of combat to the other as sometimes you just get in the mood for classic turn based, sometimes you feel like strategizing to the max, and other times fast paced action just scratches that itch. I will say though that Tales of Xillia 2 has one of my favorite combat systems of all time.
Definitely am a fan of turn based combat in jrpgs. I do like the Dark Souls series and I would personally consider that as kinda action rpg. As far as turn based combat my favorite were timed button presses with Legend of Dragoon. Can't wait for Eiyuden Chronicle to come out though!
Very good video thank you, Dragon Warrior was my first ever JRPG, and Im glad you showed a little of Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Destiny of an Emperor was also a great one
Nice video, I haven't played most of these from PlayStation and newer as I moved away from JRPGs in my teens but love the History and gives me some ideas for my list I need to play .
I saw you show a scene from it, but I'm disappointed that you didn't cover Golden Sun yet again. That game had a very unique combat system with the djinni, summons, and job changes mid fight. It's a shame to ignore that one.
Great video! You covered pretty much all my favorites, those especially being the system in legend of dragoon and the grandia series. I also think the combat system in the shadow hearts game is great and unique. Also as far as tactical rpgs go the banner saga is wonderful. Your and enemies' attacks both get weaker as your health goes down. I dont know if a lot of tactical rpgs utilize that mechanic but i love it.
I actually like all three types of battle systems. If i had to choose i also would choose the traditional turn based system. And I say that knowing that nowadays the fire emblem and the tales series might be my favorites. However, without games like final fantasy 7-10, suikoden 4 and 5, skies of arcadia legends, breath of fire 4, Golden sun and so on, my gaming personality and interests would not be the same.
What up bros! I'm definitely a turn based kind of guy and after all these years I would have to say that the Trails of Cold Steel arc (1-4) has the best turn based system, hands down. It's just so rich, character placement is key and the harder battles really keep you on your toes. I love it when games have buffs, debuffs and status ailments that actually matter in boss battles. For Strategy RPGs I'll have to go with Fire Emblem Three Houses simply because it's what I'm playing right now haha. With FFT being my all time favourite game, I have to give a shout out to Fell Seal as it is an indie-made love letter to FFT. The graphics and presentation may be on the simpler side but gameplay, and music for that matter, are amazing! It really goes for the idea of, what if FFT had continued as a series gameplay wise and expands upon it (quality of life, mechanics, etc.) I don't play a lot of Action RPGs but I have to give props to FF7R for creating a system where you can't simply button mash. Keep up the good work! 😃
The Cold Steel series does indeed have an amazing battle system for all the reasons you mentioned. I love how character positioning is so key and is something I wish turn based systems did more of. Never played Fell Seal but have heard great things about it, I gotta check that one out sometime!
Nice video, have some support. FF10 was indeed quite good, with a right mix of speed and turn based, flashy graphics but traditional feel. The team member swap mid battle but me feel like the party was actually a team, each person suporting the other.
I feel like this is a good way to view JRPG battle basics. I'm the sort of weirdo who considers the very rare Real Time RPG that isn't action based, like the original PC versions of the Gagharv games, Digimon World 1, MAYBE Parasite Eve 1 (I haven't played it yet) as being a very rare fourth flavor, but these three and dungeon crawlers are basically the big main subgenres, maybe more RPG focused Roguelikes could be included. Strategy RPGs are kind of complicated and these days I just consider them Turn Based Strategy with RPG elements, because the differences are very slight. Personally my favorites are Strategy RPGs, I love the positioning aspect of even Turn Based games like Live-A-Live, Popolocrois and Trails, but I do have a fondness for the older, clunkier Action RPGs like classic Mana and the Quintet ARPGs. The discussion of what consitutes and what isn't an RPG is subjective at best and a slippery slope at worst, so really what matters is that we enjoy these absurd games.
If strategy RPGs would take cues from the (ancient, at this point) Shining Force series, and just make their games like any other type of RPG, but with SRPG battles, they would EASILY be my favorite genre. Unfortunately, publishers seemingly think that the "SRPG template" is to just have battles broken up by visual novel cutscenes, and MAYBE a "menu town" where you select to go to a shop from a menu. "Hub towns" are another "SRPG sin", IMO. LET ME EXPLORE MULTIPLE TOWNS AND THE WORLD IN SRPGs! Why is that so hard!? It's been done DECADES ago!
Yes, Shining Force had the best model. Just like Tales didn't want to turn away from all conventional rpg model but simply not use turn battles. Maybe it could be argued that it was hard to make high quality big scale story games like FFT and TO like a regular rpg because of schedule and memory issues. That is actually understandable. But then that excuse can't apply to Fire Emblem, that has a very barebones structure. Most of the games don't even have any form of roaming system, not even like FFT. Most of the games don't have a conventional equipment system, you just set up your weapon and items (and only in the latest ones you can equip a shield, wow). And the weapon variety is very low compared to any other rpg. And lastly the stories are not even that elaborate and long. So it's impossible to defend a game to stay carrying such a hollow body when Shining Force did all it did on the Genesis. Since the SNES gen that low content issue is unforgivable. FE carries on solely based on how unique and revolutionary it was for the industry when it debuted on the NES. It can afford to stay barebones and repetitive and not work hard to evolve and reinvent itself, and it still will be fine.
Thank you for this, I wish I could make a video like this, but while I love JRPGs I just cant find the time over the last 10 years, though FFT is my favorite, but currently working on Trails in the Sky SC
Nice vid. If I may suggest you mentioned the name titles of video game featured in your video description. To avoid comments being flooded by questions about the name of the video games.
It’s definitely something we plan on covering more at some point. I talked about some of those games recently in our video about great JRPGs that take place in a modern setting and another one of the games in our video about sci-fi JRPGs, but yeah need to go into more detail on others out there
While I love Fire Emblem, it wasnt the first. I was a teen back then, and there was a company that made "Gold box games" which were largely strategy RPGs. Some were independent titles, and some were based on the Dungeons and Dragons franchise (Actually they had whole series for each "realm"). The company was SSI, and it was the squaresoft of its day on PC. They even did an adaption of the strategy RPG from that series on Nintendo called "Pool of Radiance". But yeah, Fire Emblem was in a league of its own, and a much grander affair. Also, FF tactics and Tactics Ogre were created by the same guy, Yasumi Matsuno, who pioneered a new genre as well, as excellent games like Vandal Hearts as well as many others up to the recent Fell Seal owe to his brilliance in forging "Tactical RPGs" which imho, are different from SRPGs. I dont know if its cheaper to create them, or what....But "Action RPGs" never end up as "legendary" as traditional turn based (or even timed turn based like FF7). Persona 5, Fire Emblem 3 houses, and Dragon Quest 11 absolutely DESTROYED FF 13, 15, and other action RPGs with the exception of maybe the Tales series and a couple others. You can just be deeper, and connect players better with a large playable cast in a Turn Based game. And your features can be way more complex. But they have to evolve and be done right, via Persona 4/5 and Dragon Quest 11....The idea that turned based is "outdated" is something Final Fantasy developers somehow got in their heads, and the series has been on a nosedive ever since, with the exception being FF7 remake (but only due to its nostalgia factor in my opinion.) Nothing wrong with action RPGs....But they are a different genre, not a "replacement" for the turn based genre. As games I listed show, they can still be blockbusters, and almost guaranteed to be collectables in the future. Retro-style turn based games like Octopath Traveler, Triangle Strategy, And Bravely default even do fantastic in sales.....So why they are hell bent on switching to action could only be a "profits" thing. And creating a game for profits, and not from artistic reasons and vision, leads to some pretty lackluster games. As before, gamers were the creators and the fans and you ended up with titles STILL considered legendary today. But corporate "lets make money" games tend to suck, if people get what I mean. No heart in them. A good example, would be the recent Warhammer strategy series on PC. Sure, its a corporate release, BUT it was created because a bunch of Warhammer fans got together and convinced a corporation to let them reforge the entire "Old World". These guys even do special animations for their favorite monsters and characters in their spare time for free! And you want to talk about a legendary creation? When that game is completed, no other strategy game will be REMOTELY close. Its the same with the Persona Series and Shogi Meguro, or when Kou Shibusawa personally led all the development for the Koei games. But since he has had less imput, the games tend to be more lackluster EXCEPT Fire Emblem 3 hopes in which, once again, a bunch of fans who happen to be creators forge it. This is not just entertainment. Its an artform, full of expression and vision. And when its all about the money instead of the art, it grows stale.
Don't take these things too seriously just because it's the little hobby you chose for your life. They are commercial products and the own history of the companies and their games were always defined by money in first place, of course it couldn't be any different... This one sold well, then it gets a sequel, and that one didn't sell as much even though it's also great, then it won't get a sequel. That was in fact common to see in the 90s. Secondly, most big franchises are rotten already and being carried by the name's legacy. The creative trailblazers making the biggest effort belong to the 80s and 90s, and after some point all promising franchises start going on with repetitive sequels. Even if well written, well made technically, etc, (which doesn't always happen) they are repetitive and rely too much on the gigantic creative effort and innovation of the early games. So that production model is in a way an effect of corporate greed. Sequels are generally made that way because it's easier and the return is safer. Simple.
It's easy to understand the overall discourse in the video even not knowing you well through the sequence of clear biases in the video, and that's ok, but to me there were some points needed a little bigger emphasis, even if just a brief note, for example: The action rpg phenomenon in the SNES (and you even made good comments about Tales, when that battle system is a pure byproduct of that situation, and it made a big impact in Japan since the first one). The many attempts to evolve the pure turn based system through the 90s (which seems to be an important point since the core of the video is about that history). The big growth of strategy rpgs since the mid-late 90s and mainly in the 00s portables (you even mentioned Onimusha tactics but didn't mean to state how even a big franchise like that had a strategy game for the GBA, and you didn't mention Megami Tensei also created a subseries of strategy games). And how many other classic franchises than FF abandoned the pure turn system in favor of pure action or any hybrid type (the number of examples could have helped to give a better idea of the transition, which again seems very central to the video topic). And the phenomenon of Pokemon and how it influenced 00s games and onwards to work with any kind of "collectable" system or the concept of "fighting as something else".
My local rental place had a copy of ogre battle 64. And I unfortunately had to share for save files between five people. Nothing against you top right guy but I claim that spot on my rental.
You didn't want to go into details, but if the scope of your video allowed it maybe you could have made the distinction between strategy rpgs like Ogre Battle and Wars (by Nintendo), that work with troops, and strategy rpgs like Fire Emblem, Tactics Ogre and FFT, that work with single character units. Nintendo has credit for introducing both types in Japan, Wars being even older than Fire Emblem. (And I guess it can also be equally bashed for depriving the West of both franchises before the GBA gen)
I don't like strategy games, especially the ones with tiles. However, I gave Valkyria Chronicles a try and I absolutely loved it. Even 100% the achievements. It's more of a mix of strategy/shooter, but you can move unrestricted (save for your stamina) during your turn, as well as perform actions like shooting by aiming yourself. Positioning and strategy are still important to not get yourself killed, or get the upper hand. Really engaging and fun to play, I recommend it.
For me when it comes to RPGs, the story is a huge aspect, which when paired with the right battle system can vastly improve how much I enjoy that system. Like NieR Automata is my favourite action RPG because the style of the story meshes so well with that system. It's one of the reasons I can't enjoy Pokemon despite its system. Its story is so meh.
I recently (this weekend) bought a PC just to play older JRPG’s and it’s tough to say my favorite but Legend of Legaia I’m currently playing and I really like the combat system. I’m an older gamer as well and I get depressed seeing all my favorite turned based RPGs converted to action RPG. I think Legaia shows a good example of how to keep a game turn based but add action (fast paced gameplay) to counter the tedious slow paced combat systems in other RPGs. In my probably not popular opinion FF13 was kinda on the right track but unfortunately abandon the concept. I wonder often if other elements in that game were done better how it would have affected the JRPG world.
In my opinion, Action RPGs should have Full 3D Polygons after playing these Action RPGs: Final Fantasy VII Remake (If you can call it an Action RPG), Shining Resonance Refrain and Trials Of Mana/Seiken Densetsu 3 Remake.
How come you don't talk about Pokemon during these years? Were they not helping in carrying JRPGs as well? Pokemon was such a hit in both jpn and the west and exploded with popularity, much more than most of these other games you mention.
Yeah looking back I probably could have talked about them here. I know there’s a lot of people out there who don’t consider them ‘true JRPGs’ but more of a monster collecting/rpg hybrid so I guess that’s why my mind didn’t go to them initially. Do really love the series though (especially the older games) so will have to talk about them more in the future
As interesting as these type of videos are, I sometimes do wonder how this all looks like from, you know, the Japanese perspective. What are considered the pivotal games for all the various eras and sub-genres over there and why. The thought mainly came from the terminology usage in the video. For instance, JRPG is an entirely Western created term, it's not used in Japan much, if at all. Even something like SRPG as well. Here in the West, it's short for Strategy RPG (sometimes used interchangeably with TRPG or Tactical RPG) but in Japan, it's actually short for Simulation RPG. But at the end of the day, I can probably guess what types of entries would show up since they'd largely be the same. I doubt many of the more niche series this video ignored would show up there either.
During GBA and NDS time, the strategy RPG was getting more attention thanks to the success of FFT (PS1). I remember even Ys and Valkyrie Profile had their own spin of SRPG. You mentioned the combo system in turn-based RPG but how come you didn't mention Xenogears, which is one of the first games that did this. I remember how much fun stringing the attacks in that game -- instead of just spamming the OK button to input the commands and wait for the result just like the other games of that time. And yeah, don't forget Valkyrie Profile. In this game, you don't only string the attacks from the main unit but you can set up the combo by switching the attacks between characters as well. Gotta agree that FFX's combat was revolutionary (and still is). It fixed all tedious waiting between enemy and player's turns and made the combat more dynamic. The combat is even more fast-paced than the semi-realtime ATB system that was introduced in FF IV. Seeing whose turns coming next really forces you to think more strategically about how to make your next move and that was a load of fun. Too bad SQEX abandoned this just after using it for one game but the Trails series copied this and made it become the standard of their own now. Also, love your choice of background music; especially those from Ys and Trails games. They all deserve more recognition.
Could anyone tell me what game is being shown at 11:05 ua-cam.com/video/V8lDu6tlOos/v-deo.html Looks to be combat similar to Tales/Star Ocean. Funny enough, the reason why Tales and Star Ocean are soo similar is due to the original developers being on the same team, Wolfteam. Three members of Wolfteam left due to creative differences and formed Tri-Ace. I've played a lot of JRPGs in my day (almost 41) I was a freshman in HS when FFVII came out. Anyways, if someone could tell me what game that is shown at that time mark.
@@GamingBroductions Ahh, that's one I've not played. It is a Tri-Ace game, which makes total sense as to why the combat looks similar to Star Ocean and Tales of. I'll have to either dust off my PS2 or use an emulator. LOL, I still have my launch PS2 and it still works fine. Another under-rated Tri-Ace game which is just dying for a HD port is Infinite Undiscovery.
I love classic turn based style, and I hate how so many games are turning away from it these days. That's one of the main reasons I stopped playing the Final Fantasy games.
Loving the Trails in the Sky battle theme playing in the background!
THAT'S what it is, I was wondering why it was so familiar
Final Fantasy Tactics didn't copy Tactics Ogre, they were both created by the same man, Yasumi Matsuno. He would go on to create the masterpiece Vagrant Story and was heavily involved in Final Fantasy 12. More recently he was behind Crimson Shroud on the 3DS which boasts very interesting game design, to say the least.
Nerd
Yeah you’re right I definitely botched my word choice and wish I could change it, copied wasn’t a good way to put it. I more meant that it used a lot of elements from Tactics Ogre which was definitely in their right to do so considering it was directed by the same person, something I should have verbally mentioned. We did add a little note in the lower left corner during that segment that does mention that though and tries to rectify the error in what I said, not sure if you saw that or not
If you wrote an essay for one school entrance exam, And wrote the same one for another school entrance exam…. Did you not copy it?
Nerd
@@frederickbingley6699 no because the essay is the essay for another school
One element of combat that was only touched on briefly here that I think can add a lot to a game is the ability to create builds and spec the members of your party in unique ways. This is something that is very common in WRPGs, but is sort of hit or miss as to whether something like that is present in a JRPG. A lot of the time characters have a very set role and will level in a predetermined way, but I really appreciate the games that allow you to customize your party members' abilities and create powerful builds and synergies. The Trails series was great at this from the very start with Trails in the Sky and the orbment and quartz system, but your options only expand as things like master quartz were added in later games. Sure, in many of the games you can create absolutely broken builds that are super OP, but that's a fun reward for really digging into the system and spec'ing a character in a cool way.
This is some high quality content and deserves way more views. I appreciate the enormous variety of game footage you used. Don't see things like Temco Secret of the Stars very often.
Thank you! Yeah we like to show some love towards some of the more obscure titles occasionally rather than just solely focusing on the more popular series like Final Fantasy and whatnot
I really appreciate you using endgame footage for these demonstrations. So many videos like this only show combat in the first third of the game where non of the nuance or technical mechanics really matter, but here the footage was really interesting to watch to see how the combat ends up in these games!
Comment for the algorithm. This deserves more views.
I definitely don't have a preference for any particular sub genre. Action, Strategy, Turn Based, etc. They're all good to me so long as the game overall is good.
I will say though Final Fantasy XIII's combat to me was incredibly fun. It really was a unique take on the ATB systems and somewhat job systems. I get that in standard encounters there wasn't much depth, but for bosses, switching strats on the fly was great, you felt like you were actually controlling a unit. You could even take it at face value or really dive into it with the right set ups, individual animation frames etc. So you could get as into it as you wanted to!
I honestly prefer turn based and tactical idk I grew up playing these type of combats and even today ... but I do enjoy action RPGs too 😂
Definitely feel you there, there just weren’t as many action RPGs back in the day so I feel that most people who grew up playing jrpgs are always gonna have a soft spot for turn based and tactical as that’s mainly what we got back then. Action RPGs in more modern times have been a lot of fun though!
Me too!
@@GamingBroductions We literally used to just refer to "Turn-Based RPGs" as "RPGs", and the Action games got the extra name in front, "Action RPGs". Turn-Based was just the "default", and I never even heard the term "Turn-Based" until some time in the 2010's.
I gotta agree that turn-based battles are generally my favorite type of combat for RPGs. Like you said, Grandia and Paper Mario are some great examples of how to make turn-based combat more dynamic. I will say I think Tales of Symphonia has probably my favorite battle system in any RPG though, it's just so much fun!
+1 for more turn based love! Tales of Symphonia indeed has an amazing battle system. Actually been replaying that one recently for an upcoming retrospective and am having so much fun with it, the battle system obviously isn’t as complex as some later 3d tales games but I think that’s exactly what I love about it as it’s simpler to understand while still providing you with a lot of options and strategy. Sometimes less is more! Expect a vid on that one soon 👌
@@GamingBroductions Can't wait! Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games of all time, so I'd love to hear you guys' thoughts on it!
I couldn't agree more on the "less is more thing" by the way. The newer Tales games have way too much going on for my taste, I think Symphonia hit that perfect balance between deep and straightforward.
It actually boggles my mind that no one else has really gone the Grandia route with their combat. In fact, if there was ever going to be a modern AAA Turn-Based RPG, Grandia's battle system seems like the obvious foundation to start from, to get those "trailerable" flashy combat moments.
No thought at persona?
@@yukumoblood6292 Eh, Persona's combat is honestly pretty basic, the games are laughably easy once you understand how they work.
When I got into rpgs I was introduced through a lot of turn based games and then shifted to strategy games. I loved them but before this I was so into action games for a more reactive gameplay experience. When I found out about action rpgs like tales, xenoblade, star ocean and kingdom hearts I was so excited. This is definitely my favourite game genre but I still love rpgs in general.
Great video! Nice to see someone else who don’t automatically call the Tales of or Star Ocean games action JRPGs! Probably my biggest JRPG pet peeve!
Thank you! Yeah they’re definitely more of a hybrid in my eyes due to their combination of exploration and gameplay styles. Wish we got more series or games that played like them tbh!
I'm actually dumbfounded by this (in the opposite direction that you are). They are absolutely Action JRPGs. Random encounters are a completely separate mechanism from Turn-Based battles, and can exist in any genre that has combat. They are Action JRPGs with Random Encounters, just like the older Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games are Turn-Based JRPGs with Random Encounters. Also, having party members (while nonsensical in an Action game, IMO) has nothing to do with it being Action/Turn-Based.
@@guruthosamarthruin4459 I agree. To me, just because exploration and battles don't happen in the same screen it doesn't mean that they aren't action RPGs. Saying that is the same as considering Chrono Trigger an Action RPG simply because the battles happen in the map itself.
@@Daniel_Rodrigues_89 Although, TECHNICALLY, they don't. Chrono Trigger just tricks you into thinking they do, by making the battle screen look identical to where you encountered them. That's why every battle in the game takes place at a set location. You run into the enemy, then they run to a set position, then the identical battle screen loads.
@@guruthosamarthruin4459 True, that was such an interesting and creative way of dealing with the limitations at the time - and, of course, such a minor detail would make even less difference for something such as defining a game's genre.
Great video! I was playing Ys Origin for the first time and loving it while watching!
Growing up, I saw my cousin's playing Final Fantasy 2 (FF4) on SNES and I wanted to play it too, but I was too young to fully understand how to play as I couldn't read at the time. Nonetheless, watching my relatives play a turn-based RPG for the first time and then seeing Chrono Trigger, FF3, Suikoden 2, I was hooked and loved what I thought was all RPGs at the time. Little did I know that I was going to come across games like Terranigma or Secret of Mana on SNES, or even Brave Fencer Musashi on demo disc from a PlayStation magazine. Instantly, I fell in love with Action RPGs. Growing into a teenager, I was much more into "mature" RPGs and ARPGs, such as Diablo 1&2 on PC and Star Ocean 2 on PS1. Getting into Fire Emblem on the Gameboy Advance was easy after watching my cousin go through Final Fantasy Tactics on PS1, and that, having sparked my interest in Strategy RPGs, propelled me to explore more of the genre. Lastly, I got into Final Fantasy Tactics Advance on the GBA and Shining Force 1&2 on the Sega Genesis, as they were my very first foray into the wonderful world of grid-by-grid movement in Tactical/Strategy RPGs.
Nowadays, I bounce back and forth between RPGs (card games included, like Pokemon Trading Card Game and Yu-Gi-Oh TCG) and ARPGs like Shining Resonance Refrain, the new remake of Trials of Mana, or Ys Origin and Ys 9: Monstrum Nox. Thanks for a great look at some of your favourites and thanks for giving me the opportunity to gush about the RPG games I grew up loving!
Warsong was life back then man. Props for the knowledge & mention.
Hell yeah, gotta show some love to the classics.
Im a big SMT fan so I throughly enjoy the turn-based systems of Persona and any of the SMT games that have come out. I also enjoy Tactical rpgs, my favorite being Makai Kingdom by NIS. I enjoy the fact that movement isnt confined to squares and is instead a radius around characters. Its also fun to see how you can tweak the cones, cylinders, spheres, etc of your attack radius to hit as many enemies as possible, along with the other fun aspects of character creation and battle map exploration
Great video as always.
Shin Megami Tensei II has my favorite battle system, not necessarily because of how engaging for the player it is, but because it creates such badass imagery.
I love that all of my party members usually end up with a sword in one hand and a shotgun or an uzi in the other.
That's not to mention all the demons fighting alongside your posse as well who only add to the unique aesthetic of being a demon summoner in Neo Tokyo.
SMT II introduced the HP attacks mechanic, which I still think is one of the best ways to get non-casters involved in meaningful special attacks without introducing a separate resource pool.
The auto battle really pairs well with special ammo to make weak random encounters trivial, and demon negotiation has always presented you with more combat options that your traditional JRPG.
The battles are usually quick enough that I can focus on what I love about the game: groovin' to that ost and filling out the maps.
Just wanted to say, I have been binging your channel since The Algorithm blessed me with your SquareSoft video!
Thanks for all your work!
I enjoyed the video!
For combat systems, I love the initiative track and interrupt mechanics of Grandia. A more recent game, For the King, uses an initiative track as well and it adds a lot of depth to the combat. FTK also provides a way for status effects to be useful, even against bosses, which is great.
I don't gravitate toward action RPGs, but the recent Tales of Arise has action combat that feels really good. The super moves, combined with the way you can call allies in to continue you combo, or switch between characters on the fly, makes for some badass moments.
This was a really fun vid, talk about a nostalgia trip! Chrono Trigger, Dragon Quest, Lunar, Final Fantasy Tactics, Phantasy Star, Super Mario RPG, etc. Best of all, you even gave a shoutout to SHINING FORCE!!! Great walk down memory lane, my childhood thanks you. :D
I thought Vagrant Story is one of the first hybrid action/turn based combat. You fight in the same screen and you choose spell/skills via menu. You can also avoid combat if you want to. You strategise your attack via different weapon types and element types.
Really well made video. I can just imagine how much work it was. I really liked how you animated 3 games besides each other with text underneath. And the topic is also really nice. I am a JRPG fan :) or RPG´s in general. Interesting to see such old JRPGs
a game that I never hear anyone talk about with a very unique combat system is Hybrid Heaven. Made by Konami, so its a JRPG, it had a really weird mix of action and turn based combat. you had a power gauge that filled up and when it was full you could initiate an attack. the combat was all martial arts, so you could punch with either arm, kick with either leg, and there were also grapple maneuvers. when the enemy was attacking it would flash a warning an pause time and you could choose to block with a specific part of your body or step in a direction to dodge the attack. One of the interesting parts was your strength and defense were based on all these parts of the body. so if you threw a lot of right hooks and jabs your right arm would get higher strength, but your other limbs wouldn't grow. get hit a lot on a specific arm or leg and it'll grow in defense. when in a tough fight you might choose to dodge when a hit is coming for a weak limb and in an easy fight you might want to purposely take some block hits on a weaker arm to grind its defense up. I wish it had a re-release or a sequel so everyone could see how unique it was. it wasn't the most amazing game and the story was weak (you get kidnapped and replaced with a clone and you're in some lab where there are lots of weird cloned animal experiments combined with human DNA so they fight like humans and you're just trying to stop them and get out), but it is truly a unique combat experience that I have not seen anything else try.
I think it took until I played FFX for me to realise what was missing for me in traditional JRPGs before it.
Without building a game around the player knowing for sure when the opponent would next get a turn, and wthout having reliable status effect moves, it felt like the games were going out of their way to not "let" you get strategic.
The only strategy would come OUTSIDE of battle, whereas actual battle just felt like a game of Simon Says that was so staightforward, that frankly the main decider about whether or not you'd win was just if your number was big enough.
That’s a really great way to put it, well said. Hard to plan a strategy when you have no idea if you’re even gonna be able to get a healing spell off in time before an enemy attack and stuff like that. Some old school RPGs were the absolute worst with this where if an enemy died before a character acted that was targeted to attack them, they would just do nothing. Drove me crazy lol. With status effects, it seems like more recent JRPGs are starting to utilize them moreso than the past at least so I really hope this keeps up.
This just scratched my UA-cam video game history itch so hard. Thank you for your services Bro 🤘
Xenogears actually began it's development at Square as a FF7 proposal and was being made at the same time by the same studio as FF7, so I think that doesn't work as an example of the "FF7 effect" you were trying to illustrate i.e. how influential it's popularity was on games developed after it. Both games began production at Square around the same time, FF7 with a staff 4 to 5 times larger than Xenogears, with FF7 taking just over a year and Xenogears on a 2 year development cycle that saw it releasing approximately 1 year after FF7.
Nice work!
I would like to see in the future an overview on the Mario RPG games ever made!
Thanks! Would love to cover some of the Mario RPGs in a more detailed retrospective at some point. In the meantime, our next video coming out in the next 1-2 days does have one of those games featured in its own segment.
Excellent video! I'm currently playing Ys VIII for my ARPG, Trails Series for my turn based and use my 3DS for my dungeon crawlers (SMT, Etrian Odyssey and SRPGS like Fire Emblem.
Man!! Those combat systems in VALKYRIE PROFILE 1 AND 2 are awesome!! I can´t still believe you forgot that.
Glad to see the love for Ogre Battle 64! I actually didn't play it until like 2015, and the learning curve was steep, but it truly is a great game and I've never played anything else quite like it.
I’m glad the battle system in Legend of Legaia got a shoutout. I feel like the secret combos could still be implemented if they were randomized in each game.
11:06 RADIATA STORIES! One of the best jRPGs I've played.
It's hard for me to say I prefer one style of combat to the other as sometimes you just get in the mood for classic turn based, sometimes you feel like strategizing to the max, and other times fast paced action just scratches that itch. I will say though that Tales of Xillia 2 has one of my favorite combat systems of all time.
Definitely am a fan of turn based combat in jrpgs. I do like the Dark Souls series and I would personally consider that as kinda action rpg. As far as turn based combat my favorite were timed button presses with Legend of Dragoon. Can't wait for Eiyuden Chronicle to come out though!
Very good video thank you, Dragon Warrior was my first ever JRPG, and Im glad you showed a little of Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Destiny of an Emperor was also a great one
Nice video, I haven't played most of these from PlayStation and newer as I moved away from JRPGs in my teens but love the History and gives me some ideas for my list I need to play .
great video man, real quality content! congratulations and thank you very much! merry christmas and greetings from Arequipa, Peru.
I saw you show a scene from it, but I'm disappointed that you didn't cover Golden Sun yet again. That game had a very unique combat system with the djinni, summons, and job changes mid fight. It's a shame to ignore that one.
Adol in the thumbnail... ok you have my attention.
Great video! You covered pretty much all my favorites, those especially being the system in legend of dragoon and the grandia series. I also think the combat system in the shadow hearts game is great and unique. Also as far as tactical rpgs go the banner saga is wonderful. Your and enemies' attacks both get weaker as your health goes down. I dont know if a lot of tactical rpgs utilize that mechanic but i love it.
I actually like all three types of battle systems. If i had to choose i also would choose the traditional turn based system. And I say that knowing that nowadays the fire emblem and the tales series might be my favorites. However, without games like final fantasy 7-10, suikoden 4 and 5, skies of arcadia legends, breath of fire 4, Golden sun and so on, my gaming personality and interests would not be the same.
RPGs are my favorite pastime. I'll never get tired playing turn based, and action RPGs.
hell yeah, trails in the sky is dope, +1 for music selection ;)
Could Zelda II be considered an Action-RPG? That game has some elements from RPGs at the time combined with an action oriented battle.
it is def an actiom rpg
Zelda 2 is the only game in the entire series that I consider to be an RPG.
Yeah. Link is the only RPG in the series
What up bros! I'm definitely a turn based kind of guy and after all these years I would have to say that the Trails of Cold Steel arc (1-4) has the best turn based system, hands down. It's just so rich, character placement is key and the harder battles really keep you on your toes. I love it when games have buffs, debuffs and status ailments that actually matter in boss battles.
For Strategy RPGs I'll have to go with Fire Emblem Three Houses simply because it's what I'm playing right now haha. With FFT being my all time favourite game, I have to give a shout out to Fell Seal as it is an indie-made love letter to FFT. The graphics and presentation may be on the simpler side but gameplay, and music for that matter, are amazing! It really goes for the idea of, what if FFT had continued as a series gameplay wise and expands upon it (quality of life, mechanics, etc.)
I don't play a lot of Action RPGs but I have to give props to FF7R for creating a system where you can't simply button mash. Keep up the good work! 😃
The Cold Steel series does indeed have an amazing battle system for all the reasons you mentioned. I love how character positioning is so key and is something I wish turn based systems did more of. Never played Fell Seal but have heard great things about it, I gotta check that one out sometime!
Cold Steel is the best turn based for sure
Nice video, have some support.
FF10 was indeed quite good, with a right mix of speed and turn based, flashy graphics but traditional feel. The team member swap mid battle but me feel like the party was actually a team, each person suporting the other.
Great run down!
Thank you!
i would love a review of the dynasty tactics games from you guys, especially the first one, true hidden gem!
JRPGs... Mmmmm. This video was nourishing. The history, the music, the kind of satisfactory I feel in the marrow of my bones.
Another amazing "button timing" turn based game series is Shadow Hearts. 17:21
I feel like this is a good way to view JRPG battle basics. I'm the sort of weirdo who considers the very rare Real Time RPG that isn't action based, like the original PC versions of the Gagharv games, Digimon World 1, MAYBE Parasite Eve 1 (I haven't played it yet) as being a very rare fourth flavor, but these three and dungeon crawlers are basically the big main subgenres, maybe more RPG focused Roguelikes could be included.
Strategy RPGs are kind of complicated and these days I just consider them Turn Based Strategy with RPG elements, because the differences are very slight. Personally my favorites are Strategy RPGs, I love the positioning aspect of even Turn Based games like Live-A-Live, Popolocrois and Trails, but I do have a fondness for the older, clunkier Action RPGs like classic Mana and the Quintet ARPGs.
The discussion of what consitutes and what isn't an RPG is subjective at best and a slippery slope at worst, so really what matters is that we enjoy these absurd games.
Wanderer from Ys 3 is my jam on SNES !
Crystalis on NES though!! Wow!
If strategy RPGs would take cues from the (ancient, at this point) Shining Force series, and just make their games like any other type of RPG, but with SRPG battles, they would EASILY be my favorite genre. Unfortunately, publishers seemingly think that the "SRPG template" is to just have battles broken up by visual novel cutscenes, and MAYBE a "menu town" where you select to go to a shop from a menu. "Hub towns" are another "SRPG sin", IMO.
LET ME EXPLORE MULTIPLE TOWNS AND THE WORLD IN SRPGs! Why is that so hard!? It's been done DECADES ago!
Yes, Shining Force had the best model. Just like Tales didn't want to turn away from all conventional rpg model but simply not use turn battles.
Maybe it could be argued that it was hard to make high quality big scale story games like FFT and TO like a regular rpg because of schedule and memory issues. That is actually understandable.
But then that excuse can't apply to Fire Emblem, that has a very barebones structure. Most of the games don't even have any form of roaming system, not even like FFT. Most of the games don't have a conventional equipment system, you just set up your weapon and items (and only in the latest ones you can equip a shield, wow). And the weapon variety is very low compared to any other rpg. And lastly the stories are not even that elaborate and long.
So it's impossible to defend a game to stay carrying such a hollow body when Shining Force did all it did on the Genesis. Since the SNES gen that low content issue is unforgivable. FE carries on solely based on how unique and revolutionary it was for the industry when it debuted on the NES. It can afford to stay barebones and repetitive and not work hard to evolve and reinvent itself, and it still will be fine.
Great video - needs more Radiant Historia.
Thank you for this, I wish I could make a video like this, but while I love JRPGs I just cant find the time over the last 10 years, though FFT is my favorite, but currently working on Trails in the Sky SC
What's the music at around 14:00 from? Definitely something I've played but I can't place it, probably Trails or Tales Of right?
the trails in the sky ost in the beggining 😮
K 3 videos I came across randomly from you that I liked. That's a sub from me.
The algorithm doing its thing I see. Thanks for subbing 👌
Nice vid. If I may suggest you mentioned the name titles of video game featured in your video description. To avoid comments being flooded by questions about the name of the video games.
i love the topics you cover, please keep it up
I hope you cover anything in the SMT series one day since they are quite different than other JRPGs
It’s definitely something we plan on covering more at some point. I talked about some of those games recently in our video about great JRPGs that take place in a modern setting and another one of the games in our video about sci-fi JRPGs, but yeah need to go into more detail on others out there
Seriously great video!!!
While I love Fire Emblem, it wasnt the first. I was a teen back then, and there was a company that made "Gold box games" which were largely strategy RPGs. Some were independent titles, and some were based on the Dungeons and Dragons franchise (Actually they had whole series for each "realm"). The company was SSI, and it was the squaresoft of its day on PC. They even did an adaption of the strategy RPG from that series on Nintendo called "Pool of Radiance". But yeah, Fire Emblem was in a league of its own, and a much grander affair. Also, FF tactics and Tactics Ogre were created by the same guy, Yasumi Matsuno, who pioneered a new genre as well, as excellent games like Vandal Hearts as well as many others up to the recent Fell Seal owe to his brilliance in forging "Tactical RPGs" which imho, are different from SRPGs.
I dont know if its cheaper to create them, or what....But "Action RPGs" never end up as "legendary" as traditional turn based (or even timed turn based like FF7). Persona 5, Fire Emblem 3 houses, and Dragon Quest 11 absolutely DESTROYED FF 13, 15, and other action RPGs with the exception of maybe the Tales series and a couple others. You can just be deeper, and connect players better with a large playable cast in a Turn Based game. And your features can be way more complex. But they have to evolve and be done right, via Persona 4/5 and Dragon Quest 11....The idea that turned based is "outdated" is something Final Fantasy developers somehow got in their heads, and the series has been on a nosedive ever since, with the exception being FF7 remake (but only due to its nostalgia factor in my opinion.) Nothing wrong with action RPGs....But they are a different genre, not a "replacement" for the turn based genre. As games I listed show, they can still be blockbusters, and almost guaranteed to be collectables in the future. Retro-style turn based games like Octopath Traveler, Triangle Strategy, And Bravely default even do fantastic in sales.....So why they are hell bent on switching to action could only be a "profits" thing.
And creating a game for profits, and not from artistic reasons and vision, leads to some pretty lackluster games. As before, gamers were the creators and the fans and you ended up with titles STILL considered legendary today. But corporate "lets make money" games tend to suck, if people get what I mean. No heart in them.
A good example, would be the recent Warhammer strategy series on PC. Sure, its a corporate release, BUT it was created because a bunch of Warhammer fans got together and convinced a corporation to let them reforge the entire "Old World". These guys even do special animations for their favorite monsters and characters in their spare time for free! And you want to talk about a legendary creation? When that game is completed, no other strategy game will be REMOTELY close. Its the same with the Persona Series and Shogi Meguro, or when Kou Shibusawa personally led all the development for the Koei games. But since he has had less imput, the games tend to be more lackluster EXCEPT Fire Emblem 3 hopes in which, once again, a bunch of fans who happen to be creators forge it.
This is not just entertainment. Its an artform, full of expression and vision. And when its all about the money instead of the art, it grows stale.
Don't take these things too seriously just because it's the little hobby you chose for your life. They are commercial products and the own history of the companies and their games were always defined by money in first place, of course it couldn't be any different... This one sold well, then it gets a sequel, and that one didn't sell as much even though it's also great, then it won't get a sequel. That was in fact common to see in the 90s.
Secondly, most big franchises are rotten already and being carried by the name's legacy. The creative trailblazers making the biggest effort belong to the 80s and 90s, and after some point all promising franchises start going on with repetitive sequels. Even if well written, well made technically, etc, (which doesn't always happen) they are repetitive and rely too much on the gigantic creative effort and innovation of the early games.
So that production model is in a way an effect of corporate greed. Sequels are generally made that way because it's easier and the return is safer. Simple.
I know this is old video but I'd like to see how you guys categorize the gamplay in Aedis Eclipse Generation of Chaos
No mention of shadow hearts and the ring system it was a unique take on turn based combat
It's worth noting the JRPG label wasn’t used in the '90s. They were called "console RPGs" back then. The JRPG label later appeared in the 2000s.
It's easy to understand the overall discourse in the video even not knowing you well through the sequence of clear biases in the video, and that's ok, but to me there were some points needed a little bigger emphasis, even if just a brief note, for example:
The action rpg phenomenon in the SNES (and you even made good comments about Tales, when that battle system is a pure byproduct of that situation, and it made a big impact in Japan since the first one).
The many attempts to evolve the pure turn based system through the 90s (which seems to be an important point since the core of the video is about that history).
The big growth of strategy rpgs since the mid-late 90s and mainly in the 00s portables (you even mentioned Onimusha tactics but didn't mean to state how even a big franchise like that had a strategy game for the GBA, and you didn't mention Megami Tensei also created a subseries of strategy games).
And how many other classic franchises than FF abandoned the pure turn system in favor of pure action or any hybrid type (the number of examples could have helped to give a better idea of the transition, which again seems very central to the video topic).
And the phenomenon of Pokemon and how it influenced 00s games and onwards to work with any kind of "collectable" system or the concept of "fighting as something else".
My local rental place had a copy of ogre battle 64. And I unfortunately had to share for save files between five people. Nothing against you top right guy but I claim that spot on my rental.
Is that Trails in the Sky battle music I hear?
Pokémon is sort of the industry leader, shocked it was totally left out.
I think they're considered monster collection RPGs, like Monster Rancher, Digimon, etc.
You didn't want to go into details, but if the scope of your video allowed it maybe you could have made the distinction between strategy rpgs like Ogre Battle and Wars (by Nintendo), that work with troops, and strategy rpgs like Fire Emblem, Tactics Ogre and FFT, that work with single character units. Nintendo has credit for introducing both types in Japan, Wars being even older than Fire Emblem. (And I guess it can also be equally bashed for depriving the West of both franchises before the GBA gen)
I like them all for many different reason
Anybody know the game @5:10?
Axe man vs. Dragon on volcano?
I wanted to know this too!
Dragon Quest III
in modern era we are blessed to have the legendary Divinity original sin 2 and Soon baldurs gate 3
my fav strategy is final fantasy tactics fav turn based is dragon quest xi fav action final fantasy xvi
I never could get into strategy. I feel like I missed so much because of that
That's how I am with action based. Sucks cause Ys8 is amazing but it's just so painful to play the combat.
@@GamingTranceSeer what types of rpgs do u like?
I don't like strategy games, especially the ones with tiles. However, I gave Valkyria Chronicles a try and I absolutely loved it. Even 100% the achievements. It's more of a mix of strategy/shooter, but you can move unrestricted (save for your stamina) during your turn, as well as perform actions like shooting by aiming yourself. Positioning and strategy are still important to not get yourself killed, or get the upper hand. Really engaging and fun to play, I recommend it.
@@GamingTranceSeer Wtf, I feel so bad for you. Ys 8 is one of the best games ever made, sucks you can't enjoy it. Perhaps play it on Easy?
@@Walamonga1313 yeah. Almost done on easy. I'll finish it :)
For me when it comes to RPGs, the story is a huge aspect, which when paired with the right battle system can vastly improve how much I enjoy that system. Like NieR Automata is my favourite action RPG because the style of the story meshes so well with that system. It's one of the reasons I can't enjoy Pokemon despite its system. Its story is so meh.
Anyone know the game showed @ 6:09?
Star Renegades
What's the song called that plays in the intro and outro?
Sora no Kiseki FC OST - Sophisticated Fight
What about Shadow Hearts and FFX-2?
9:09 what song is this from? :)
most unique combat is vagrant story
what was the game at the 7 minute point? before the tactics ogre/final fantasy tactics game.
Just Breed for the NES
I recently (this weekend) bought a PC just to play older JRPG’s and it’s tough to say my favorite but Legend of Legaia I’m currently playing and I really like the combat system. I’m an older gamer as well and I get depressed seeing all my favorite turned based RPGs converted to action RPG. I think Legaia shows a good example of how to keep a game turn based but add action (fast paced gameplay) to counter the tedious slow paced combat systems in other RPGs. In my probably not popular opinion FF13 was kinda on the right track but unfortunately abandon the concept. I wonder often if other elements in that game were done better how it would have affected the JRPG world.
18:22 What game is mentioned here?
@12:09 Which caused sales to suffer. Graphics matter.
Shining force 2 is the best jrpg battle system.
In my opinion, Action RPGs should have Full 3D Polygons after playing these Action RPGs: Final Fantasy VII Remake (If you can call it an Action RPG), Shining Resonance Refrain and Trials Of Mana/Seiken Densetsu 3 Remake.
All games should. There's literally 0 reason to use 2D, except for lack of budget/ambition
The first ever jrpg was dragon slayer by neo falcom 1984 and that was a action jrpg
How come you don't talk about Pokemon during these years? Were they not helping in carrying JRPGs as well? Pokemon was such a hit in both jpn and the west and exploded with popularity, much more than most of these other games you mention.
Yeah looking back I probably could have talked about them here. I know there’s a lot of people out there who don’t consider them ‘true JRPGs’ but more of a monster collecting/rpg hybrid so I guess that’s why my mind didn’t go to them initially. Do really love the series though (especially the older games) so will have to talk about them more in the future
I certainly hope we never see another generation like the PS3/X360 gen. That was a complete desert, for Turn-Based RPGs.
What game is featured at 10:08?
Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana. Great game
I love the Xenoblade Chronicles games and I'm not even a fan of action RPGs. I love the battle system in Persona 5.
What is that game at around 6:13?
Star Renegades
I thought we were gonna end up in dark souls and elden ring as a modern action RPG
As interesting as these type of videos are, I sometimes do wonder how this all looks like from, you know, the Japanese perspective. What are considered the pivotal games for all the various eras and sub-genres over there and why.
The thought mainly came from the terminology usage in the video. For instance, JRPG is an entirely Western created term, it's not used in Japan much, if at all. Even something like SRPG as well. Here in the West, it's short for Strategy RPG (sometimes used interchangeably with TRPG or Tactical RPG) but in Japan, it's actually short for Simulation RPG.
But at the end of the day, I can probably guess what types of entries would show up since they'd largely be the same. I doubt many of the more niche series this video ignored would show up there either.
no super robot wars ?
Cool story bro
During GBA and NDS time, the strategy RPG was getting more attention thanks to the success of FFT (PS1). I remember even Ys and Valkyrie Profile had their own spin of SRPG.
You mentioned the combo system in turn-based RPG but how come you didn't mention Xenogears, which is one of the first games that did this. I remember how much fun stringing the attacks in that game -- instead of just spamming the OK button to input the commands and wait for the result just like the other games of that time.
And yeah, don't forget Valkyrie Profile. In this game, you don't only string the attacks from the main unit but you can set up the combo by switching the attacks between characters as well.
Gotta agree that FFX's combat was revolutionary (and still is). It fixed all tedious waiting between enemy and player's turns and made the combat more dynamic. The combat is even more fast-paced than the semi-realtime ATB system that was introduced in FF IV. Seeing whose turns coming next really forces you to think more strategically about how to make your next move and that was a load of fun. Too bad SQEX abandoned this just after using it for one game but the Trails series copied this and made it become the standard of their own now.
Also, love your choice of background music; especially those from Ys and Trails games. They all deserve more recognition.
Could anyone tell me what game is being shown at 11:05 ua-cam.com/video/V8lDu6tlOos/v-deo.html Looks to be combat similar to Tales/Star Ocean. Funny enough, the reason why Tales and Star Ocean are soo similar is due to the original developers being on the same team, Wolfteam. Three members of Wolfteam left due to creative differences and formed Tri-Ace. I've played a lot of JRPGs in my day (almost 41) I was a freshman in HS when FFVII came out. Anyways, if someone could tell me what game that is shown at that time mark.
Radiata Stories for the PS2!
@@GamingBroductions Ahh, that's one I've not played. It is a Tri-Ace game, which makes total sense as to why the combat looks similar to Star Ocean and Tales of. I'll have to either dust off my PS2 or use an emulator. LOL, I still have my launch PS2 and it still works fine. Another under-rated Tri-Ace game which is just dying for a HD port is Infinite Undiscovery.
What game is shown at 6:55 ?
Just Breed
I love classic turn based style, and I hate how so many games are turning away from it these days. That's one of the main reasons I stopped playing the Final Fantasy games.
It's not that many really. But you seem to be focused on FF. If that's your favorite rpg then yeah, that's bad for you.