"after 25 years of trying and only one child to show for it, Rhaella, pushing forty, delivers a healthy child" yeah, but she also fucking died giving birth
I don't think her fucking dying had anything to fucking do with her fucking health considering it's been 25 fucking years and multiple fucking miscarriages. It's fucking middle ages. Healthy women fucking died of childbirth too. And they died fucking often A woman can be fucking sterile and live a long fucking life
Preston, you could be wrong about half of this, half of everything, almost everything, nearly nothing; but you did a very, very special thing to me: You teached me the importance of detail, symbolism, subtext, and to care about a story in the most intimate way possible. As a storyteller, i cannot thank you enough.
Viserys having been only 8 also means that the things he remembers aren't necessarily quite right - as you say, the rushed "midnight sailing" could have been the escape from Dragonstone (assuming they were even there), and the storm could easily have grown with the telling because from the perspective of a small child, it could have seemed the biggest storm ever. And she only has Viserys to tell her these stories, and Viserys is self-aggrandizing, paranoid and delusional
Or there really was a huge storm and it took both fleets. Stannis rebuilt his (why else build new fleet, when you have Tyrell and Redwyne fleets available after Ned Stark had broken the siege of the Storm's End? King's Landing had already fallen, Battle of the Trident is long over). Targaryens couldn't rebuild theirs because Dragonstone is a barren volcanic island with very few trees (most houses and buildings are made of stone there). And we do know of one ship which does have black sails, black hull and black oars at that exact time. Davos's ship.
Also, it can be quite dark early in the morning and an eight year old woken up from a sleep might think it is a dead of night. And really, Viserys thinks that the realm will rise for him. He will go to any length to make the story as dramatic as possible. It's like the story of founding of the US, puritan landing at Plymouth Rock an "discovering" the new world - none of that happened (America was discovered for quite a some time at that point and there were colonies already), but it makes a good dramatic story. That's what Viserys is telling Dany, an event in Westerosi history turned into a legend.
My idea about the midnight sailing is perhaps the person Jaime saw leaving wasn't Rhaella. But perhaps a decoy and then Rhaella and Viserys left at another point?
Can we talk about the fact that Dany's always talking about being "one step ahead of the usurpers hired dogs" but there is literally no evidence of this in the books and the iron throne only puts a bounty out on her when she gets pregnant
I always put that down to her brother's paranoia. He'd see some Andal or someone sketchy and assume they were assassins, so he'd grab his sister and run. as a missing prince living in exile, Viserys had reason to be paranoid, and that probably fed into his madness and instability as the years went by. of course, that's just my take.
@@B4ndG33k1 definitely occurred to me too, but Dany always talks about it. Like a LOT! Hopefully I'm not just overthinking my favourite characters storyline but it feels like there's something else to it. Blackfyres maybe?? I do think someone was following them, but it definitely wasn't Baratheon men
Eddie F totally. Sort of. There was the poisoner. Could say Jorah was purposely put there to stop it. But why didn’t Jorah reveal to her, at whatever point, about that?
Preston, when Jamie says he saw Rhaella "the morning of the day she left", it can perfectly mean that he saw her last that morning, and she left later in the same day, in the evening.
I want to enjoy this video but this is bothering me so much. That's how I read the sentence, it's how I think most people would read it, and yet everything in this theory hinges on a completely different reading and a bunch of assumptions arising therefrom.
So Jamie saw her in the morning leaving for port where ship already waited(and the city is not so big she was there in 2 hours tops), yet she inexplicably left in the evening instead of doing it as soon as posible? Sorry for being blunt but Preston is not the one reaching here.
@@Badpotaton If Jamie saw her leaving, then why not arrest her? I get the impression Jamie is talking about seeing her leaving for Dragonstone and not from Dragonstone. They left DS for the free cities. Leaving for safety makes much more sense at night than in broad daylight.
@@FOTS_TM Sure- and everyone in this comment chain talks about the trip TO Dragonstone. I'm not sure why you assume we somehow got this confused. I belive that Preston point is valid, since if the trip was truly scheduled for nighttime there would be no reason for Jamie to see Queen leave this early, not sure why on earth would Jamie arrest them either - the move to Dragonstone was approved by Aerys after all.
i wonder how, i wonder why yesterday she told me bout tthe blue blue sky, but all that i can see is just another lemon tree (and a red door on some house in "braavos")
Maybe a storm isnt an actual storm, but a metaphor for the Baratheon fleet attacking Dragonstone, and Dany was born during the attack and Willem Darry took Dany and Viserys before Stannis landed on dragonstone
@@dutchpangermanist5673 Good catch, he constructed a whole new fleet, right? That's why it took months to storm the castle. My bad, I guess only half the metaphor works.
The tale grows in the telling. All along, I have thought that Viserys stories were a combination of things Viserys was told, which may or may not be accurate, his fear colored memories of the time,and things his recollection has confused. Viserys having been 8 at the time could lead to a lot of confusion, conflagration and exaggeration in his stories. As to the season for storms, I live in Oregon, just a couple weeks ago we had huge wind storms that knocked down trees on powerlines, and set off record breaking wildfires in Oregon. Those wind storms until this year, never happen in summer, but they are normal in winter, when it rains a lot. If we have bigger wind storms and wildfires 5 years from now, the 2020 fires will fade in memory. Just because a bad summer storm sunk a few ships at the mouth of Shipbreaker bay as Viserys and Dany left Dragonstone, it might be a mild storm in the back of the bay where Stannis is, and nothing to write home about for an adult like Stannis, but extremely scary to an 8 year old boy who just lost his mother. Viserys had his own motivation for the way he told these stories to Dany, if he ginned up his stories to Dany, like the "knives of the usurper" would keep Dany more reliant on and obedient to Viserys because he is terrorizing her with fear of an imaginary threat. Viserys is terribly abusive to Dany, and she has believed his gaslighting.
April Fools 2021: Preston reads the Sam and Gilly sex scene for 10 hours straight on a charity live stream. The legendary "Fat Pink Mast" could literally help cure cancer.
Lmao I have probably spent more work days listening to his videos than I'd like to admit. And most work trip driving I'll just turn on a prepping for winter and listen to it thru.
You know its Preston Jacobs when an 18 minute video feels like it was 30 seconds long. Thank you for another amazing and intriguing topic that I've never given a second thought to after reading the series multiple times. You have a ridiculously sharp mind.
"Viserys, why do I keep overhearing people calling me "Danaerys Storm" and laughing?" "Uhh, no, they're saying "StormBORN"! Because of the... storm. When you were born. Yeah." "No I'm pretty sure they said--" "It was the biggest storm in a HUNDRED YEARS, and it smashed ships and, and, uh, brought down the crenellations of the castle..."
Or if she ever learns the truth: "People storm castles all the time. Why was this time so special?" "The battle commander was Stannis Baratheon. That's why."
This series is already extremely intriguing. The storm which supposedly destroyed the Targaryen fleet has always been very suspicious to me. The fact that no one besides Dany ever references it is extremely odd, especially considering that we have the POV of a seasoned sailor (Davos) and this supposed "greatest storm in the memory of Westeros" just never gets brought up. I'm excited to see where you take this series, Preston.
It’s always been suspicious to me too. It was one of the things that confused me early on in the series (why did Dany refer to herself as “Stormborn”?) but as I read the books, it never really became clear to me why. Especially considering no other POVs referred to this storm
The World of Ice and Fire mentions the great and terrible storms of 166 AC and 221 AC, but nothing about a bad storm in 284 AC. However, considering characters in Westeros such as Mollander in the AFFC prologue refer to Daenerys as 'Stormborn', I always thought that there was actually a storm, but that Viserys greatly exaggerated its severity.
If it was "the greatest storm Westeros has ever seen" then I would assume it'd be like Superstorm Sandy had a threesome with Hurricane Katrina and El Nino. How could that hit right after all the events in King's Landing and common people not be terrified of Robert and view the storm as the gods punishing Westeros for letting him kill their monarch and his family?
Good points. However, has any character had a reason to mention the supposed storm, or talk about that place and time and neglect the storm? I think it is likely there was some storm, and it was exaggerated. Stormborn is a cool title for a ruler to have, and to make it cooler, you have to make the storm epic, perhaps the greatest ever; it is probably self-delusional and unintentional, but is something any wannabee monarch would do. All these lords and rulers have extreme egos.
Jeremy Dirr I would think it would’ve come up in Davos’s POV considering hes a sailor who would’ve been in the area. Ultimately I think what you said is the Occam’s razor answer: Viserys exaggerated their past to make it sound more epic to a little girl. Though I’m interested to see where Preston takes this
One thing that really annoys me when people try to dismiss lemongate. The common argument is that the sealord of bravos was given a lemon tree as a gift and could easilly have one in his glass gardens. Danny SPECIFICALLY states that the lemon tree is outside her bedroom window. There are only 3 possible scenarios: 1. Danny was being housed in the sealords glass gardens. This doesnt add up because surely all the other exotic plants and the walls of glass would have stood out more in dannys memory than a lemon tree. 2. They were in bravos and the lemon tree wasnt in the glass gardens. This wouldnt add up because the tree would surely be dead and wilted. 3. They were in a place with a subtropical climate
the thing that most caught my attention when I first read this backstory was that the servants kicked them out when Darry died. Surely either Darry would have left his house to Targaryen children upon his death or at least whatever money he was using to pay for his rent. I found this very bizarre.
I think "Darry" was likely a Mormont, given that he's described as a large "bear of a man", just like the other Mormonts, and doesn't match any description of any Darry. Which makes me wonder what Jorah was doing there in AGOT. Was he really exiled over slavery? Or did Ned frequently send Mormonts out to Essos with orders along the lines of "protect my daughter Daenerys"? If Viserys was spooked by the "Usurper's Dogs" and fled with Dany every time he saw them, it makes sense Jorah would want a cover story so as not to scare him off. Edit: Mormonts are also frequently described as one of the poorest houses in Westeros, even before Jorah's extreme financial damage. "Darry" might not have had much to pay them to begin with, let alone after he died.
Actually, there is a mention of the storm. Stannis the Mannis himself mentions it. Robert had sent Stannis to take Dragonstone from Targaryens. Stannis spends a few month preparing the fleet for that, because he expects heavy resistance on the sea. Only to find out there will be no resistance at all, because of the storm. The storm that took his ships had taken Targaryen ships as well. Only Stannis could rebuild and Targaryens could not because Dragonstone is pretty much a barren volcanic roc. He finds no ships opposing him in the Narrow Sea and all the fighting happens on Dragonstone itself. After taking over, Robert gifts him Dragonstone. Stannis takes it as an insult, although Robert really thought he was showing him favor, because Dragonstone traditionally belongs to heir apparent of the king. I like the idea that it was Stannis and Davos who smuggled Daenerys and Vyserys from the Dragonstone. Stannis is a man of honor. There is no honor in killing a boy and a newborn girl or giving them to his brother to be executed. And one man in all of Seven Kingdoms we know for sure has a black ship with black sails at that time is Davos Seaworth. And that is the thing which saves Davos's life when he saves Edric Storm's life. Quote: "Is it so honourable to burn? This night, I do not need men of honor. I need smugglers. Are you with me or not?" Gods be good, they were. "If I have sinned, take my head." Davos says. "But hear me out, for the onions that I brought you and for the fingers that you have taken." /end quote And previously: quote: "Like you have chosen Robert, your grace?" "That was a hard choice. My brother or my king. I have chosen Robert, in the end, did I not?" says Stannis. /end quote Then comes siege of Dragonstone. And Stannis has to make the same choice again. My brother's wishes, or my king (Vyserys) and honor? You are right, there are no Targaryen ships thanks to the storm. Only Stannis' ships. And one of those ships has black oars, black hull and black sails. And a good man and true (Willem Darry) but not of the King's Guard. King's Guard doesn't run. So Stannis comes to him and says "Is it so honourable to be executed? You are Vyserys's sworn shield (like Hound was for Joffrey later), take him, take the princess, here are 4 good men and true, they will take you to the smuggler's ship."
That would make sense. That would be where the betrothal with Viseris fits in. Thought, if she isn't a Targaryen, there's only one missing baby girl that we know of. We're still just guessing about the father there though aren't we....
Edric is also unique among bastards in that both of his parents were highborn, just unmarried (he's half-Baratheon, half-Florent, part of why he and Shireen were close). Every other bastard in ASOIAF, if memory serves, is the product of 1 highborn and 1 lowborn parent (except probably Jon Snow). Not sure if that means anything for Edric's future in the story.
Greg Bauer that’s true. R+L = D or N +A = D with or without a switcheroo we are dealing with 2 highborns. My head imagines something like this “someone says should be Danarys Storm , they get silenced then a story is made up for anyone who may have heard. We don’t have much evidence for any of this that’s just how I imagine something like that went. But the Storm part of Storm has recently stood out to me and I’ve been thinking about it.
@@slytherpuff1 I've also entertained N+A=D as a theory, for the simple reason that it provides a different texture to Ned's actions. He refuses to be a kinslayer. I've also wondered if there was more to the Ned Stark/Jorah Mormont/slaver story than we are led to believe.
Dany isnt born in the summer - she’s born in the winter. The tourney of Harhenhall happens in “the year of *false* spring” and winter resumes soon after. Robert’s Rebellion is fought entirely in the winter.
the year of the false spring was in 281 AC and Dany was born three years later in 284 AC. It's possible winter ended before she was born, but even if she was born in the winter than her saying she was born in the summer is just another lie.
It also causes Stannis’ appointment of “Master of Ships” make much more sense. And why he was given command of the force that would defeat Victorian Greyjoy. It’s because he already proved his battle acumen at Dragonstone.
The rule with ASOIAF is this: unless the reader witnesses the event through the eyes of a POV character, the reader should question the accuracy of the event. GRRM pretty much screams this to readers by letting us see events via AGOT Sansa I then showing us how everyone who wasn't there is presented a different story in the very next chapter AGOT Eddard III. Joffrey outright lies. Arya tells a jumbled and incoherent truth. Sansa knows the truth but pretends she doesn't. Readers must question everything we don't see live. Even what we see live could be flawed because we only see what the POV sees and that perception could be off. We absolutely should question what we're told about Dany, and Jon, and Aegon, and the much else.
And all of the POVs are unreliable and biased characters. There are several instances throughout the whole series where the POV characters contradict themselves and misremember events. GRRM is one massive liar and deceiver.
Preston, I thank you for all the effort you put in to your videos and the quality of the theory behind them. I wouldn't be in half as deep as I am into asoiaf theorizing without your channel.
Only about 6 mins in but while we're talking about the storm...apparently there's been a recent study suggesting barometric pressure changes from storms can actually induce labour in late-term pregnancies. So it may not be that Dany was born on a day that just happened to have a storm, but perhaps the storm is what caused her birth.
I don't understand why people always connect Dany to Ashara. Because of her violet eyes. The Targaryens have those same eyes because Aegon the fifth's mother was a Dayne. What other connections does she have with Ashara? Absolutely nothing! Dany is more connected to Lyanna as she know how to ride the instant she got on her horse even though she's never ridden before. The flowers is another connection as she likes to weave them in her hair, especially blue flowers.
Agree that the Dany/Ashara connection is probably bunkum, but Targaryens have had purple eyes since the start. The feature is Valyrian, which is itself inherited from the Great Empire of the Dawn (specifically through the Amethyst Empress and her progeny), with the Daynes getting it from the latter before/during the Long Night, and the Valyrians being a separate offshoot of that line.
@@ferraghamo Jorah says Dany looks like his first wife, Lynesse Hightower. But the Hightowers are, along w/the Daynes, the Westerosi house most connected to the Great Empire, and Preston's Page of Lies videos have been getting to me recently, so damn
Keep coming back to these old series for many reasons but one is the intro music. Absolutely love the nostalgia they bring. Thanks for all your work Preston
How likely would it be that every time she got pregnant a Maester poisoned her causing the miscarriages? Also, damn. I never noticed the contradictions as the other scenes were so much later...
@@alhena11 Good point, but they certainly had the motive, means, and opportunity... It's really amazing how often something in the books remains unexplained, but there are two very well-founded theories about it... In general, I've never read anything with that many good fan-theories.
Love that theory that Lyana did not know or that Ned could not pass her off has his unlike Jon and she spent time in Dorne and that why she remembers a lemon tree.
These and the Brienne videos are my favorites of yours. They're not only among your most convincing analyses, but your most interesting and... just cozy and comfortable with their style. You let them breathe without rushing it, still making sure you wasted not time.
Lol! Just because Jamie remembers seeing the Queen getting into a coach to go to the ship during the morning doesn’t mean it didn’t set sail in the late afternoon or evening. Boarding and loading can take a while, especially if it was a planned trip and not an emergency evacuation.additionally, it appears to be more than a one day journey from KL to DS. Vasersys’ memories of the night and dark sails can easily be explained be either(or both)of those two things. The taking or battle for DS is related to Dani from her brother who wasn’t there to witness most of it. That story is likely what Willem Derry told him and he turn embellished and told to Dani. The over grandiose stories told to and between two traumatized children does not make a conspiracy or a fake Dani.
I love this! I've been rereading AGOT recently and have spent a long time mulling over Dany I. While there's a chance the inconsistencies are just earlier installment weirdness, I do think it's fun to speculate that there is something more going on. My best guess is that it's all thematic, that of course Dany's childhood memories are fake and full of lies, because she was never allowed to have a childhood--she just cobbled together images that sounded nicer than her reality. ..... But I also like to speculate that Dany isn't the child of Aerys and Rhaella, so idk.
In the last DoD chapter , in the small council meeting , Kevan and the rest talk about Dany and mentioned that unlike fAegon, there is no dispute about her identity
Alan Pennie Armies- & even elephants can be defeated - armies are just men, & elephants (their size notwithstanding) are not that much more of a threat than charging horses (historically, people learnt swiftly how to deal with their enemies fronting elephants on the field- I imagine the Westerosi army commanders will, too)... dragons, on the other hand...
Rhaella and Viserys could have gone to the ship in the morning and wait for the tide at sunset?? Just an idea... I really love your thinking process, Mr Jacobs.
Viserys saying "The dragon remembers" jumped out at me, much like "The North remembers". Normally I would think it's just a play on those words, but with GRRM it may be referring to some hidden plot.
The first memory could be a neat detail of a child remembering being in a black cloak with his mom. The sunlight though the black cloth looking like moonlight on black sails
This song in the opening gives me flash backs to continuing education I took on a platform called medbridge. They used that at the beginning and end of lectures
I know it from somewhere too though not what you said and i can't place it. Its driving me insane! If anyone can think of anywhere else it's been please tell me
On rewatch, I think the most convincing elements for this argument are the assault on Dragonstone and the supposed damage to the fortress made of fused stone. The fused stone makes another appearance once Tyrion has fled King's Landing and the fused stone construction was used in the Valyrian roads. Even after several centuries of wear and tear, they are described as pristine without any kind of regular maintenance. And to a lesser degree the missing "greatest storm" also casts doubts on Dany's account. There is definitely something up with the story we were told versus the story we see play out.
Does this bring questions up about our other character whose mother died in child birth, Tyrion? Cuz Lyanna's bed of blood, Rhaella's death and Joanna Lannisters death always seemed thematically linked
This is late but inbr**ding and a general lack of medicine would make death due to child birth very common and makes for a useful plot device. Age is also a significant (I'm unsure but it goes both ways especially in George's writing)
Three heads of the dragon, maybe? Blood and sacrifice is needed in order for dragons to be born, and the three mothers gave up their lives while birthing the three heads.
For the first discrepancy, not sure how long the ship ride is from Kings Landing to Dragonstone, but could it be possible that they left in the morning and were arriving in Dragonstone at midnight?
@@tierfreund780 thing is...if it's a normal, planned event you wouldn't leave in the middle of the night. You want to get off the pier before it's dark since it's more problematic an area.
Just did some math, it looks like dragonstone to kings landing is about 400 miles, modern ships travel at about 20 miles an hour consistently so even above that speed still plausibly leaves them in the dark travelling
Its also likly the fleet was sunk in spite as not to give berathians more abillity to follow them , preston your a gem thank you for keeping up with the videos
Yeah, I miss Chad. Also this video points to Lemongate and Tower of Joy. Was there any other possibility or hint at where she may have been born? Could she even be Rhaenys daughter of Elia and Rhaegar? If Rhaella was the mother, who was the Father? Secret lover Kingsguard? or crazier, Lord Tywin as a spiteful revenge on Aerys´suppossedly behavior? GRRM is so convoluted sometimes!!! Eager to hear more PJ´s takes on this. He at the end of the video points to Pentos as the place Viserys and her flee. It may suggest Dany´s false memories were planted by Illyrio and he has hidden them since... the beginning?? Don´t have the books at hand, but it is also implied they were fleeing from city to city till AGOT starts.
Thank you, Preston! I'm a long time watcher but not a big commenter. I went back and re-read the entire essay on the possible parentage of Dany. I read it 4 years ago, then the show showed the marriage between R+L=J, which crushed any other parental options for either Dany or Jon.
1), considering the discrepancy between Jaime and Viserys' account of Rhaella and Viserys leaving King's Landing to Dragonstone could easily be explained as Viserys exagerating. Viserys was ever a paranoid individual, and repeatedly made a point of transferring that feeling onto Dany, ie: the Usurper's Knives were always not too far behind, thus Dany and Vis were constantly on the run. However it was only when word gets back to King Robert that Dany is Pregnant with a Khal's Baby, does King Robert take an avid interest in having here assassinated. Ser Jorah had presumably been spying for Varys for sometime before the pre'wedding party at Drogo's Manse in Pentos, and never until now had Robert shown interest. He had infamously never shown much interest in council meetings or the ruling of the realm. 2)The Stormlands are named so because they they are stormy year round. The type of weather they have can be similarily ascribed to the weather in the south-eastern U.S. for example. Cold precipitation passes over the hot up-drafts from the deserts of Dorne to then combine with the crossflows of the Marches and the Rainwood. A Storm at the time of Danys birth is very much not out of the question. 3)Though considering the location of Kings Landing compared to Dragonstone, I consider it highly likely that a large number,if not all, of Stannis' fleet would have survived this storm. They had the entire estuary of the Blackwater to beach and tie-down this fleet away from the dangerous outer bay during the storm. Im a big fan of many of your previous videos, truly some were fucking amazing, but i listened to about half this video and i gotta say, THIS TIME, your really clutching at straws mate. Very tinfoily. 'Taena and Cersei', 'the northern conspiracy', 'Frey in the snow'. Oh and 'Prepping for Winter' ,especially the Chapters in Meereen, were fantastic.
Maybe george just changed his mind later on? He's been writing for a loooong time so might have altered his plans since page three of the first Danny chapter at least in minor details Then again he knows his fans will pour through every detail so he should be careful about this
I thought GRRM had specifically spoken against that sort of thing. His comments (I'm paraphrasing) about how "if people correctly figure out the butler did it, you don't change it halfway through to say the maid did it, just because the fans got it right" seem to be addressing that exact issue. In fact that's basically what D&D did to the show - everyone expected Jon to face off against the Night King, they changed it to Arya for no good reason other than to fool people, and it was terrible.
Jaime says "The morning of the day she left" so he could be referring to the morning BEFORE she left for dragonstone. AKA she could have left that night, and he's referencing the morning before. We don't know when the ship actually left Kings Landing, just that Jaime saw her last that morning before she went down Aegon's hill to board the ship.
My thought, was that since the trip from KL to Dragonstone is about 400 miles and ships travel at most 20 miles per hour, then she could have left in the morning and arrived after midnight.
but was a time of war and the house targaryen was near extinct so is more likely that rhaella and viserys go to dragonstone in the morning and they arrive in dragonstone almost in the night
I wish I'd come upon this so much sooner. Wow. I never thought lemon tree had such implications. Even if you're wrong, you've given such excellent food for thought
Bobby B is the Storm Lord.. I've always thought that was a hat tip to Danny being Storm Born. Like, she was born during King Robert smashing the place she was born. Maybe just born during the time Robert Baratheon was sweeping over the realm. Or the sack of KL. But I don't think she was born in KL. GRRM saying she was born "about 9 months after Jon" Always made me think they have the same mother. That's a weird and very specific time to say someone was born after someone else.
Maybe she is a Robert bastard. I don't actually believe that, but it it's a theory. She would be the exception to the seed is strong, with her Valyrian looks.
@@dirrdevil interesting idea. Would play into Ned being so vehemently against Robert sending the assassin for her. Doesn't want to make Robert a kinslayer (or rather, a worse kind of kinslayer).
Ahhhh losing my mind! Preston strikes gold again with another intro that tickles my insides. Superior to all. We are unworthy. Love this, love you, love GOT.
Thank you Preston. This is amazing content. I look forward to your videos every week and when one come out its like a bright point in my week. Thank you
This theory literally makes too much sense to me... I was re-reading The world of ice and fire and it actually stood out to me how weird it is that Viserys was born and then Daenerys again after so many miscarriages and trying between the mad king and his wife.
Dany´s story is filled with contradictions, I agree theres more to it. Why would anyone create a fake Daenerys if they already have Viserys ? It would be weird to have a valyrian looking baby arround and tell her she is Daenerys just in case she becomes important years later.. And if you have a baby (like the Ned+Ashara = Dany theories)and want to hide her, impersonating Daenerys Targaryen would be the stupidest idea in planetos.
The reason to have a fake Dany would be to marry or sell her for money, which is exactly what they did. Women in feudalism were useful for making alliances.
Exactly, no one was really there so making a fictional princess to buy an army with would be very illyrio. And lys is filled with girls like Dany, in fact, illyrios wife looked like her.
In addition to the above comments, I think "Daenerys" was also brought in as a backup plan, in case Viserys became unmanageable. Targaryens had the reputation for madness already at this point, and anyone who spent time around Viserys would know that boy ain't right. Whichever puppetmaster(s) put this all together surely wanted a Plan B.
But daenerys gave birth to dragons and targaryens are the only dragon lords in the world so i dont see how she is some random lys girl so i dont think she is ned and ashara child, but i theorize that sir arthur dayne is her father as to why its in dorne as are lemon trees,they have valyrian looks, the last azor ahai wielded a special sword to defeat the night king and thier sword is called morning that defeats the long night and daenerys is said to look like ashara dayne maybe bc their related and we now aunts and uncles can look like thier neices and nephews as to why ned says arya is so similar to lyanna and it be funny since in history their was a king arthur who had a wife gwenavier and she had an affair with a man lancelot so what if that story was reversed and Arthur slept with the queen rhaelle who was in a marriage with king aerys which she didn't want.
@@blacksheep9834 you don't need to be a targ to hatch dragons, you just need to be a special type of Valyrian. Also several Targs have gon missing in the past 300 years, Dany might randomly be one of their descendants.
Storm, mayhaps like an 'attack' storm. Stannis storming the castle while Dany is being born = storm born? Stannis does say they slipped through his fingers.
"after 25 years of trying and only one child to show for it, Rhaella, pushing forty, delivers a healthy child" yeah, but she also fucking died giving birth
I don't think her fucking dying had anything to fucking do with her fucking health considering it's been 25 fucking years and multiple fucking miscarriages. It's fucking middle ages. Healthy women fucking died of childbirth too. And they died fucking often
A woman can be fucking sterile and live a long fucking life
Preston, you could be wrong about half of this, half of everything, almost everything, nearly nothing; but you did a very, very special thing to me: You teached me the importance of detail, symbolism, subtext, and to care about a story in the most intimate way possible. As a storyteller, i cannot thank you enough.
😍
When I first started watching Preston: "He's probably wrong about half of this."
Now: "He's probably right about all of this."
The real game of thrones theories were the friends we made along the way.
@@barbaraberenyiesterhazy900 Then, "This guy is both!"
@@cashnelson2306 Literally delusional if you think you're a storyteller and say teached.
Viserys having been only 8 also means that the things he remembers aren't necessarily quite right - as you say, the rushed "midnight sailing" could have been the escape from Dragonstone (assuming they were even there), and the storm could easily have grown with the telling because from the perspective of a small child, it could have seemed the biggest storm ever. And she only has Viserys to tell her these stories, and Viserys is self-aggrandizing, paranoid and delusional
I agree, much of Dany's understanding of her own past has more to do with tales, Viserys childhood memories, and lies that serve Viserys personally.
Or there really was a huge storm and it took both fleets. Stannis rebuilt his (why else build new fleet, when you have Tyrell and Redwyne fleets available after Ned Stark had broken the siege of the Storm's End? King's Landing had already fallen, Battle of the Trident is long over). Targaryens couldn't rebuild theirs because Dragonstone is a barren volcanic island with very few trees (most houses and buildings are made of stone there).
And we do know of one ship which does have black sails, black hull and black oars at that exact time. Davos's ship.
Also, it can be quite dark early in the morning and an eight year old woken up from a sleep might think it is a dead of night. And really, Viserys thinks that the realm will rise for him. He will go to any length to make the story as dramatic as possible. It's like the story of founding of the US, puritan landing at Plymouth Rock an "discovering" the new world - none of that happened (America was discovered for quite a some time at that point and there were colonies already), but it makes a good dramatic story. That's what Viserys is telling Dany, an event in Westerosi history turned into a legend.
My idea about the midnight sailing is perhaps the person Jaime saw leaving wasn't Rhaella. But perhaps a decoy and then Rhaella and Viserys left at another point?
@@jadonsmith3224 I didn't think of that but makes sense.
Can we talk about the fact that Dany's always talking about being "one step ahead of the usurpers hired dogs" but there is literally no evidence of this in the books and the iron throne only puts a bounty out on her when she gets pregnant
I always put that down to her brother's paranoia. He'd see some Andal or someone sketchy and assume they were assassins, so he'd grab his sister and run. as a missing prince living in exile, Viserys had reason to be paranoid, and that probably fed into his madness and instability as the years went by. of course, that's just my take.
@@B4ndG33k1 definitely occurred to me too, but Dany always talks about it. Like a LOT! Hopefully I'm not just overthinking my favourite characters storyline but it feels like there's something else to it. Blackfyres maybe?? I do think someone was following them, but it definitely wasn't Baratheon men
On a related topic, did Jorah not realize his “spying” for Varys was really being on her side? Mind, this was before the Aegon plot was conceived of.
@@joshhoffman5233 I Imagine the fact illyrio and varys were teamed up and jorah was given by illyrio would suggest she wasn't in any actual danger
Eddie F totally. Sort of. There was the poisoner. Could say Jorah was purposely put there to stop it. But why didn’t Jorah reveal to her, at whatever point, about that?
Preston, when Jamie says he saw Rhaella "the morning of the day she left", it can perfectly mean that he saw her last that morning, and she left later in the same day, in the evening.
I want to enjoy this video but this is bothering me so much. That's how I read the sentence, it's how I think most people would read it, and yet everything in this theory hinges on a completely different reading and a bunch of assumptions arising therefrom.
He's talking about whenever the queen sailed to Dragonstone, not FROM Dragonstone. Viserys told her of their exit from Dragonstone.
So Jamie saw her in the morning leaving for port where ship already waited(and the city is not so big she was there in 2 hours tops), yet she inexplicably left in the evening instead of doing it as soon as posible? Sorry for being blunt but Preston is not the one reaching here.
@@Badpotaton If Jamie saw her leaving, then why not arrest her? I get the impression Jamie is talking about seeing her leaving for Dragonstone and not from Dragonstone. They left DS for the free cities. Leaving for safety makes much more sense at night than in broad daylight.
@@FOTS_TM Sure- and everyone in this comment chain talks about the trip TO Dragonstone. I'm not sure why you assume we somehow got this confused. I belive that Preston point is valid, since if the trip was truly scheduled for nighttime there would be no reason for Jamie to see Queen leave this early, not sure why on earth would Jamie arrest them either - the move to Dragonstone was approved by Aerys after all.
That intro has such "old school Preston" vibes
Dudn't it.
💯
Makes me nostalgic for the days he had a shitty microphone and didn't edit out his "ums" and "ahs".
you must not have watched many old Preston vids then my man... he didnt used to have those 90s teen drama styled intros until a few years ago.
Default GarageBand loop type beat
“You do not steal from a dragon.”
Viserys hasn’t read The Hobbit.
Ah, Viserys. Always so smaug.
The story of Sigurd, neither
@@alexandergangaware429
And how did that ultimately work out for poor Sigurd and the kingdom of Burgund?
The Preston triangle: Lemons, Bloodraven and The Rogue Prince 🎶🎵
i wonder how, i wonder why
yesterday she told me bout tthe blue blue sky,
but all that i can see
is just another lemon tree
(and a red door on some house in "braavos")
seth410 and telepathic abilities
Don't forget Allar Deem
Everyone fucking forgets Allar Deem
the song played in my mind~
Did someone mention... ua-cam.com/video/FjAAL4JJv4Y/v-deo.html ?
Maybe a storm isnt an actual storm, but a metaphor for the Baratheon fleet attacking Dragonstone, and Dany was born during the attack and Willem Darry took Dany and Viserys before Stannis landed on dragonstone
My thoughts exactly. The fleet is from Storm's End in the Stormlands and they would have to "storm" the castle to take it after all.
@@victormello5536 The fleet is the new royal fleet, so its base is Kings Landing in the Crownlands.
@@dutchpangermanist5673 Good catch, he constructed a whole new fleet, right? That's why it took months to storm the castle. My bad, I guess only half the metaphor works.
It would also make sense as to why it destroyed the Targaryen fleet but not the Baratheon fleet.
@Whatever Hyperbolly I guess. It makes sense to exaggerate it, make it look more impressive than it really is.
The tale grows in the telling.
All along, I have thought that Viserys stories were a combination of things Viserys was told, which may or may not be accurate, his fear colored memories of the time,and things his recollection has confused. Viserys having been 8 at the time could lead to a lot of confusion, conflagration and exaggeration in his stories.
As to the season for storms, I live in Oregon, just a couple weeks ago we had huge wind storms that knocked down trees on powerlines, and set off record breaking wildfires in Oregon. Those wind storms until this year, never happen in summer, but they are normal in winter, when it rains a lot. If we have bigger wind storms and wildfires 5 years from now, the 2020 fires will fade in memory. Just because a bad summer storm sunk a few ships at the mouth of Shipbreaker bay as Viserys and Dany left Dragonstone, it might be a mild storm in the back of the bay where Stannis is, and nothing to write home about for an adult like Stannis, but extremely scary to an 8 year old boy who just lost his mother.
Viserys had his own motivation for the way he told these stories to Dany, if he ginned up his stories to Dany, like the "knives of the usurper" would keep Dany more reliant on and obedient to Viserys because he is terrorizing her with fear of an imaginary threat. Viserys is terribly abusive to Dany, and she has believed his gaslighting.
If Preston ever puts out a 10 hour video you bet your iron throne I’ll watching
April Fools 2021: Preston reads the Sam and Gilly sex scene for 10 hours straight on a charity live stream.
The legendary "Fat Pink Mast" could literally help cure cancer.
manband20 😂😂😂😂
Lmao I have probably spent more work days listening to his videos than I'd like to admit. And most work trip driving I'll just turn on a prepping for winter and listen to it thru.
Eddie F yess!!!! I do the same for long drives
cringe
You know its Preston Jacobs when an 18 minute video feels like it was 30 seconds long. Thank you for another amazing and intriguing topic that I've never given a second thought to after reading the series multiple times. You have a ridiculously sharp mind.
Read the complete (f)Dany paper and you'll be more amazed
@@cassa995 Where canI read that?
"Viserys, why do I keep overhearing people calling me "Danaerys Storm" and laughing?"
"Uhh, no, they're saying "StormBORN"! Because of the... storm. When you were born. Yeah."
"No I'm pretty sure they said--"
"It was the biggest storm in a HUNDRED YEARS, and it smashed ships and, and, uh, brought down the crenellations of the castle..."
"Talk back again and you'll wake the dragon."
Brah, what if that's true dawg?!
Or if she ever learns the truth: "People storm castles all the time. Why was this time so special?"
"The battle commander was Stannis Baratheon. That's why."
Holy shit...
"And is it true that Storm is the bastard name of children from the Stormlands?"
lord lemontree
protector of the red door
wielder of glass candles
HAIL KING PRESTOROS
"Presteros hhahahahahah fuck me thats gold. WE SHALL RETURN TO THE KINGDOM OF PRESTEROS THIS DAY!
This series is already extremely intriguing. The storm which supposedly destroyed the Targaryen fleet has always been very suspicious to me. The fact that no one besides Dany ever references it is extremely odd, especially considering that we have the POV of a seasoned sailor (Davos) and this supposed "greatest storm in the memory of Westeros" just never gets brought up. I'm excited to see where you take this series, Preston.
It’s always been suspicious to me too. It was one of the things that confused me early on in the series (why did Dany refer to herself as “Stormborn”?) but as I read the books, it never really became clear to me why. Especially considering no other POVs referred to this storm
The World of Ice and Fire mentions the great and terrible storms of 166 AC and 221 AC, but nothing about a bad storm in 284 AC.
However, considering characters in Westeros such as Mollander in the AFFC prologue refer to Daenerys as 'Stormborn', I always thought that there was actually a storm, but that Viserys greatly exaggerated its severity.
If it was "the greatest storm Westeros has ever seen" then I would assume it'd be like Superstorm Sandy had a threesome with Hurricane Katrina and El Nino.
How could that hit right after all the events in King's Landing and common people not be terrified of Robert and view the storm as the gods punishing Westeros for letting him kill their monarch and his family?
Good points. However, has any character had a reason to mention the supposed storm, or talk about that place and time and neglect the storm?
I think it is likely there was some storm, and it was exaggerated. Stormborn is a cool title for a ruler to have, and to make it cooler, you have to make the storm epic, perhaps the greatest ever; it is probably self-delusional and unintentional, but is something any wannabee monarch would do. All these lords and rulers have extreme egos.
Jeremy Dirr I would think it would’ve come up in Davos’s POV considering hes a sailor who would’ve been in the area.
Ultimately I think what you said is the Occam’s razor answer: Viserys exaggerated their past to make it sound more epic to a little girl. Though I’m interested to see where Preston takes this
One thing that really annoys me when people try to dismiss lemongate. The common argument is that the sealord of bravos was given a lemon tree as a gift and could easilly have one in his glass gardens.
Danny SPECIFICALLY states that the lemon tree is outside her bedroom window.
There are only 3 possible scenarios:
1. Danny was being housed in the sealords glass gardens. This doesnt add up because surely all the other exotic plants and the walls of glass would have stood out more in dannys memory than a lemon tree.
2. They were in bravos and the lemon tree wasnt in the glass gardens. This wouldnt add up because the tree would surely be dead and wilted.
3. They were in a place with a subtropical climate
It wouldn’t have to be subtropical. It could easily have been...Dorne
I've heard other people say they think George planned on doing something with that but decided to give it up.
FINALLY, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE LEMONS
stfu about lemons lol, the books goes insane talking about lemons, its becoming stupid
Almost had a heart attack seeing there's a new Preston series, feed me those sweet theories PJ, nourish me
the thing that most caught my attention when I first read this backstory was that the servants kicked them out when Darry died. Surely either Darry would have left his house to Targaryen children upon his death or at least whatever money he was using to pay for his rent. I found this very bizarre.
I think "Darry" was likely a Mormont, given that he's described as a large "bear of a man", just like the other Mormonts, and doesn't match any description of any Darry. Which makes me wonder what Jorah was doing there in AGOT. Was he really exiled over slavery? Or did Ned frequently send Mormonts out to Essos with orders along the lines of "protect my daughter Daenerys"? If Viserys was spooked by the "Usurper's Dogs" and fled with Dany every time he saw them, it makes sense Jorah would want a cover story so as not to scare him off.
Edit: Mormonts are also frequently described as one of the poorest houses in Westeros, even before Jorah's extreme financial damage. "Darry" might not have had much to pay them to begin with, let alone after he died.
Actually, there is a mention of the storm. Stannis the Mannis himself mentions it. Robert had sent Stannis to take Dragonstone from Targaryens. Stannis spends a few month preparing the fleet for that, because he expects heavy resistance on the sea. Only to find out there will be no resistance at all, because of the storm. The storm that took his ships had taken Targaryen ships as well. Only Stannis could rebuild and Targaryens could not because Dragonstone is pretty much a barren volcanic roc.
He finds no ships opposing him in the Narrow Sea and all the fighting happens on Dragonstone itself. After taking over, Robert gifts him Dragonstone. Stannis takes it as an insult, although Robert really thought he was showing him favor, because Dragonstone traditionally belongs to heir apparent of the king.
I like the idea that it was Stannis and Davos who smuggled Daenerys and Vyserys from the Dragonstone. Stannis is a man of honor. There is no honor in killing a boy and a newborn girl or giving them to his brother to be executed. And one man in all of Seven Kingdoms we know for sure has a black ship with black sails at that time is Davos Seaworth.
And that is the thing which saves Davos's life when he saves Edric Storm's life.
Quote:
"Is it so honourable to burn? This night, I do not need men of honor. I need smugglers. Are you with me or not?" Gods be good, they were.
"If I have sinned, take my head." Davos says. "But hear me out, for the onions that I brought you and for the fingers that you have taken." /end quote
And previously:
quote:
"Like you have chosen Robert, your grace?"
"That was a hard choice. My brother or my king. I have chosen Robert, in the end, did I not?" says Stannis.
/end quote
Then comes siege of Dragonstone. And Stannis has to make the same choice again. My brother's wishes, or my king (Vyserys) and honor?
You are right, there are no Targaryen ships thanks to the storm. Only Stannis' ships. And one of those ships has black oars, black hull and black sails. And a good man and true (Willem Darry) but not of the King's Guard. King's Guard doesn't run. So Stannis comes to him and says
"Is it so honourable to be executed? You are Vyserys's sworn shield (like Hound was for Joffrey later), take him, take the princess, here are 4 good men and true, they will take you to the smuggler's ship."
I still think Oberyn & Doran were the ones behind their escape. The first of the Dornish Master plan.
That would make sense. That would be where the betrothal with Viseris fits in. Thought, if she isn't a Targaryen, there's only one missing baby girl that we know of. We're still just guessing about the father there though aren't we....
I LOVE this actually.
Interesting theory.
I like the parallels between Dany and edric, but you forgot to mention that he is also “storm”born. It’s a pun, but I wouldn’t put it past grrm lol
Yes sometimes I wonder if born was added after to cover up. some bastardy switcherooo shinaganz
Sigh. This is gonna be canon, isn't it.
Edric is also unique among bastards in that both of his parents were highborn, just unmarried (he's half-Baratheon, half-Florent, part of why he and Shireen were close). Every other bastard in ASOIAF, if memory serves, is the product of 1 highborn and 1 lowborn parent (except probably Jon Snow). Not sure if that means anything for Edric's future in the story.
Greg Bauer that’s true. R+L = D or N +A = D with or without a switcheroo we are dealing with 2 highborns. My head imagines something like this “someone says should be Danarys Storm , they get silenced then a story is made up for anyone who may have heard. We don’t have much evidence for any of this that’s just how I imagine something like that went. But the Storm part of Storm has recently stood out to me and I’ve been thinking about it.
@@slytherpuff1 I've also entertained N+A=D as a theory, for the simple reason that it provides a different texture to Ned's actions. He refuses to be a kinslayer. I've also wondered if there was more to the Ned Stark/Jorah Mormont/slaver story than we are led to believe.
Dany isnt born in the summer - she’s born in the winter.
The tourney of Harhenhall happens in “the year of *false* spring” and winter resumes soon after. Robert’s Rebellion is fought entirely in the winter.
the year of the false spring was in 281 AC and Dany was born three years later in 284 AC. It's possible winter ended before she was born, but even if she was born in the winter than her saying she was born in the summer is just another lie.
I needed this so badly today
It also causes Stannis’ appointment of “Master of Ships” make much more sense. And why he was given command of the force that would defeat Victorian Greyjoy. It’s because he already proved his battle acumen at Dragonstone.
Wore my lemongate shirt to an interview the other day
The rule with ASOIAF is this: unless the reader witnesses the event through the eyes of a POV character, the reader should question the accuracy of the event.
GRRM pretty much screams this to readers by letting us see events via AGOT Sansa I then showing us how everyone who wasn't there is presented a different story in the very next chapter AGOT Eddard III.
Joffrey outright lies. Arya tells a jumbled and incoherent truth. Sansa knows the truth but pretends she doesn't.
Readers must question everything we don't see live. Even what we see live could be flawed because we only see what the POV sees and that perception could be off.
We absolutely should question what we're told about Dany, and Jon, and Aegon, and the much else.
Even then you can’t trust the character like Sansa and how she thought the hound Kissed her even though he didn’t
The rule of ASOIAF: Question every word of every line in every book. If you have a theory about something, the truth is likely 5x more complex.
And all of the POVs are unreliable and biased characters. There are several instances throughout the whole series where the POV characters contradict themselves and misremember events.
GRRM is one massive liar and deceiver.
No one else mentioning the biggest storm in a century is like the biggest clue to me... mind blown
Deeper Dany Part 100:- Dany might by Arya stark
I knew it
dany is hot pie
Hodor wrote the pink letter
But who knocked over the drinking bird?
@@someoneontheplanetearth97 i see that now, it makes perfect sense.
Literally the first thing in this video: lemons
That intro was perfection.
I listen to this every night when I go to sleep and I swear I hear the intro music differently every time
For so long I was sad and miserable about the show, but my curiosity made me watch this and now I feel excited for the books once more.
I'm a simple man. I see new Preston video, I hit a like button.
Preston, I thank you for all the effort you put in to your videos and the quality of the theory behind them. I wouldn't be in half as deep as I am into asoiaf theorizing without your channel.
The backstory is just a good as the story itself
Damm I love these books
Only about 6 mins in but while we're talking about the storm...apparently there's been a recent study suggesting barometric pressure changes from storms can actually induce labour in late-term pregnancies. So it may not be that Dany was born on a day that just happened to have a storm, but perhaps the storm is what caused her birth.
This is very interesting, but I doubt GRRM knew that in time of writing GoT.
i just realized that when viserys tells dany that a storm hit dragonstone, it might actually be a metaphor for stannis, a stormlander
I don't understand why people always connect Dany to Ashara. Because of her violet eyes. The Targaryens have those same eyes because Aegon the fifth's mother was a Dayne. What other connections does she have with Ashara? Absolutely nothing!
Dany is more connected to Lyanna as she know how to ride the instant she got on her horse even though she's never ridden before. The flowers is another connection as she likes to weave them in her hair, especially blue flowers.
Agree that the Dany/Ashara connection is probably bunkum, but Targaryens have had purple eyes since the start. The feature is Valyrian, which is itself inherited from the Great Empire of the Dawn (specifically through the Amethyst Empress and her progeny), with the Daynes getting it from the latter before/during the Long Night, and the Valyrians being a separate offshoot of that line.
Mormont says she looks like Ashara.
@@ferraghamo Jorah says Dany looks like his first wife, Lynesse Hightower. But the Hightowers are, along w/the Daynes, the Westerosi house most connected to the Great Empire, and Preston's Page of Lies videos have been getting to me recently, so damn
Keep coming back to these old series for many reasons but one is the intro music. Absolutely love the nostalgia they bring. Thanks for all your work Preston
How likely would it be that every time she got pregnant a Maester poisoned her causing the miscarriages?
Also, damn. I never noticed the contradictions as the other scenes were so much later...
Those maesters!
Well, it's a very incestous marriage (twice incestous to be sure). At that point, it maybe would be suspicious for Rhaella to NOT have miscarriages...
@@alhena11 Good point, but they certainly had the motive, means, and opportunity...
It's really amazing how often something in the books remains unexplained, but there are two very well-founded theories about it... In general, I've never read anything with that many good fan-theories.
Danny and Jon are probably fraternal twins. This is the only explanation I can think of for the house with the red door.
Love that theory that Lyana did not know or that Ned could not pass her off has his unlike Jon and she spent time in Dorne and that why she remembers a lemon tree.
yes hard agree
This intro is perfect in every way
After all those years, you still fall to sleep with Preston theories, I just feel at ease listening to preston.
Thank you Mr. Jacobs! :) Best wishes and all the blessings to you and your family! 💕
These and the Brienne videos are my favorites of yours.
They're not only among your most convincing analyses, but your most interesting and... just cozy and comfortable with their style.
You let them breathe without rushing it, still making sure you wasted not time.
Something is up with Danys past, everyone who's studied the books knows it's. The question is what???.
Lol! Just because Jamie remembers seeing the Queen getting into a coach to go to the ship during the morning doesn’t mean it didn’t set sail in the late afternoon or evening. Boarding and loading can take a while, especially if it was a planned trip and not an emergency evacuation.additionally, it appears to be more than a one day journey from KL to DS. Vasersys’ memories of the night and dark sails can easily be explained be either(or both)of those two things. The taking or battle for DS is related to Dani from her brother who wasn’t there to witness most of it. That story is likely what Willem Derry told him and he turn embellished and told to Dani.
The over grandiose stories told to and between two traumatized children does not make a conspiracy or a fake Dani.
Preston and my favorite character. This is going be a good video!
I love this!
I've been rereading AGOT recently and have spent a long time mulling over Dany I. While there's a chance the inconsistencies are just earlier installment weirdness, I do think it's fun to speculate that there is something more going on. My best guess is that it's all thematic, that of course Dany's childhood memories are fake and full of lies, because she was never allowed to have a childhood--she just cobbled together images that sounded nicer than her reality. ..... But I also like to speculate that Dany isn't the child of Aerys and Rhaella, so idk.
In the last DoD chapter , in the small council meeting , Kevan and the rest talk about Dany and mentioned that unlike fAegon, there is no dispute about her identity
Power resides where men believe it resides no more, no less.
@@thatguybrando
There's not much point being sceptical about the claim of someone with three dragons.
Alan Pennie
Armies- & even elephants can be defeated - armies are just men, & elephants (their size notwithstanding) are not that much more of a threat than charging horses (historically, people learnt swiftly how to deal with their enemies fronting elephants on the field- I imagine the Westerosi army commanders will, too)... dragons, on the other hand...
Preston, you're my favorite SOIAF-Theorytuber and of my favorite youtubers as a whole. Keep on the great work
Rhaella and Viserys could have gone to the ship in the morning and wait for the tide at sunset?? Just an idea... I really love your thinking process, Mr Jacobs.
Or the trip wasn't completed until night had fallen.
@@davidjones272 the distance is pretty far, someone said like 400 miles, so even for ships going 20 miles per hour, it would take into the night.
Gosh Preston you never cease to amaze. How do you find these nuggets (golden nuggets). Can’t wait for Part 2. Thanks for the great content 👍💐
Viserys saying "The dragon remembers" jumped out at me, much like "The North remembers". Normally I would think it's just a play on those words, but with GRRM it may be referring to some hidden plot.
The first memory could be a neat detail of a child remembering being in a black cloak with his mom. The sunlight though the black cloth looking like moonlight on black sails
This song in the opening gives me flash backs to continuing education I took on a platform called medbridge. They used that at the beginning and end of lectures
I know it from somewhere too though not what you said and i can't place it. Its driving me insane! If anyone can think of anywhere else it's been please tell me
Nothing like a good coffee and Preston's video in the morning.
Quickest I have ever clicked. Love your videos preston
A new video I'm so elated! I am so glad every time I see a new one especially a new series
We all believed the page until that dreaded lemon tree came out
Also, the intro song is very nice
On rewatch, I think the most convincing elements for this argument are the assault on Dragonstone and the supposed damage to the fortress made of fused stone. The fused stone makes another appearance once Tyrion has fled King's Landing and the fused stone construction was used in the Valyrian roads. Even after several centuries of wear and tear, they are described as pristine without any kind of regular maintenance. And to a lesser degree the missing "greatest storm" also casts doubts on Dany's account. There is definitely something up with the story we were told versus the story we see play out.
you always make my day preston
Preston always has the best Intros. Though nothing can beat the purple wedding intro.
I can't quite believe even Dany's stormborn nickname is also a suspicious half truth, is there anything about her that isn't shrouded in mystery?
Yours is the one channel that first made me think that not everything is what it seems. Thank you Preston Jacobs.
Does this bring questions up about our other character whose mother died in child birth, Tyrion? Cuz Lyanna's bed of blood, Rhaella's death and Joanna Lannisters death always seemed thematically linked
Questions? I think it's pretty obvious Tyrion is the biological son of Aerys Targaryen and not Tywin Lannister.
This is late but inbr**ding and a general lack of medicine would make death due to child birth very common and makes for a useful plot device. Age is also a significant (I'm unsure but it goes both ways especially in George's writing)
Three heads of the dragon, maybe? Blood and sacrifice is needed in order for dragons to be born, and the three mothers gave up their lives while birthing the three heads.
Thank you Preston you were the real game of thrones all along
Damn, now I'm picturing Daenerys singing: "In the eye of the hurricane there is quiet! For just a moment..."
The real hazard in watching a new video is that you have to wait for the next part! Ah, such sweet sorrow.
For the first discrepancy, not sure how long the ship ride is from Kings Landing to Dragonstone, but could it be possible that they left in the morning and were arriving in Dragonstone at midnight?
Jaime just says that the last time he saw Rhaella was the morning of that day, she could easily have left later in the day.
Or sail at like 2AM which is technically both the morning and the night?
@@tierfreund780 thing is...if it's a normal, planned event you wouldn't leave in the middle of the night. You want to get off the pier before it's dark since it's more problematic an area.
Just did some math, it looks like dragonstone to kings landing is about 400 miles, modern ships travel at about 20 miles an hour consistently so even above that speed still plausibly leaves them in the dark travelling
@@e22ddie46 how many waltofells is that?
Hey Preston thanks for this, I'm not 'preping for winter' and I really missed these videos.
Please keep them coming.
Jamie says she was cloaked and hooded, obviously we are to think "Was it really Rhaella that was getting on the ship to Dragonstone?"
Its also likly the fleet was sunk in spite as not to give berathians more abillity to follow them , preston your a gem thank you for keeping up with the videos
Preston on Dany? This will be good #lemongate #whereschad
Yeah, I miss Chad. Also this video points to Lemongate and Tower of Joy. Was there any other possibility or hint at where she may have been born? Could she even be Rhaenys daughter of Elia and Rhaegar?
If Rhaella was the mother, who was the Father? Secret lover Kingsguard? or crazier, Lord Tywin as a spiteful revenge on Aerys´suppossedly behavior? GRRM is so convoluted sometimes!!!
Eager to hear more PJ´s takes on this. He at the end of the video points to Pentos as the place Viserys and her flee.
It may suggest Dany´s false memories were planted by Illyrio and he has hidden them since... the beginning?? Don´t have the books at hand, but it is also implied they were fleeing from city to city till AGOT starts.
@@fernandogarcia3957 yep. I actually know that quote from memory lol. She was going from place to place, "one step ahead of the usurpers knives"
Thank you, Preston! I'm a long time watcher but not a big commenter. I went back and re-read the entire essay on the possible parentage of Dany. I read it 4 years ago, then the show showed the marriage between R+L=J, which crushed any other parental options for either Dany or Jon.
1), considering the discrepancy between Jaime and Viserys' account of Rhaella and Viserys leaving King's Landing to Dragonstone could easily be explained as Viserys exagerating. Viserys was ever a paranoid individual, and repeatedly made a point of transferring that feeling onto Dany, ie: the Usurper's Knives were always not too far behind, thus Dany and Vis were constantly on the run. However it was only when word gets back to King Robert that Dany is Pregnant with a Khal's Baby, does King Robert take an avid interest in having here assassinated. Ser Jorah had presumably been spying for Varys for sometime before the pre'wedding party at Drogo's Manse in Pentos, and never until now had Robert shown interest. He had infamously never shown much interest in council meetings or the ruling of the realm.
2)The Stormlands are named so because they they are stormy year round. The type of weather they have can be similarily ascribed to the weather in the south-eastern U.S. for example. Cold precipitation passes over the hot up-drafts from the deserts of Dorne to then combine with the crossflows of the Marches and the Rainwood. A Storm at the time of Danys birth is very much not out of the question.
3)Though considering the location of Kings Landing compared to Dragonstone, I consider it highly likely that a large number,if not all, of Stannis' fleet would have survived this storm. They had the entire estuary of the Blackwater to beach and tie-down this fleet away from the dangerous outer bay during the storm.
Im a big fan of many of your previous videos, truly some were fucking amazing, but i listened to about half this video and i gotta say, THIS TIME, your really clutching at straws mate. Very tinfoily. 'Taena and Cersei', 'the northern conspiracy', 'Frey in the snow'. Oh and 'Prepping for Winter' ,especially the Chapters in Meereen, were fantastic.
I was heading out for a walk and thinking what should I listen to when the notification popped up! Awesome.
Maybe george just changed his mind later on? He's been writing for a loooong time so might have altered his plans since page three of the first Danny chapter at least in minor details
Then again he knows his fans will pour through every detail so he should be careful about this
I agree with you. It's been a looooong time since book one lol
I think he's said, explicitly, that the lemon contradiction would come back later.
Add to that a rumor that he possibly has Dementia.
@@WorgenGrrl oh dear God no.
I thought GRRM had specifically spoken against that sort of thing. His comments (I'm paraphrasing) about how "if people correctly figure out the butler did it, you don't change it halfway through to say the maid did it, just because the fans got it right" seem to be addressing that exact issue. In fact that's basically what D&D did to the show - everyone expected Jon to face off against the Night King, they changed it to Arya for no good reason other than to fool people, and it was terrible.
Preston has no idea how excited I am for this series
Jaime says "The morning of the day she left" so he could be referring to the morning BEFORE she left for dragonstone. AKA she could have left that night, and he's referencing the morning before. We don't know when the ship actually left Kings Landing, just that Jaime saw her last that morning before she went down Aegon's hill to board the ship.
My thought, was that since the trip from KL to Dragonstone is about 400 miles and ships travel at most 20 miles per hour, then she could have left in the morning and arrived after midnight.
but was a time of war and the house targaryen was near extinct so is more likely that rhaella and viserys go to dragonstone in the morning and they arrive in dragonstone almost in the night
Thank you for continuing to make these videos, I just found your channel again after a few years and it brought me back to great memories from 2015.
Alternate title for this series: We Can Remember It for You Whole-sail. ;P
I wish I'd come upon this so much sooner. Wow. I never thought lemon tree had such implications. Even if you're wrong, you've given such excellent food for thought
GRRM PLANNED IT ALL
@Captain Opinion i think Yeah
it's always good to receive news of a PJ video! I'm looking forward to seeing the next ones in this series.
Bobby B is the Storm Lord..
I've always thought that was a hat tip to Danny being Storm Born.
Like, she was born during King Robert smashing the place she was born.
Maybe just born during the time Robert Baratheon was sweeping over the realm. Or the sack of KL.
But I don't think she was born in KL.
GRRM saying she was born "about 9 months after Jon"
Always made me think they have the same mother. That's a weird and very specific time to say someone was born after someone else.
Maybe she is a Robert bastard. I don't actually believe that, but it it's a theory. She would be the exception to the seed is strong, with her Valyrian looks.
@@dirrdevil interesting idea. Would play into Ned being so vehemently against Robert sending the assassin for her. Doesn't want to make Robert a kinslayer (or rather, a worse kind of kinslayer).
Ahhhh losing my mind! Preston strikes gold again with another intro that tickles my insides. Superior to all. We are unworthy. Love this, love you, love GOT.
Back are we and
I'd love a video or series where he goes through each theory he has and ranks how likely they are to happen
The great Daenery Targaryen, let's get back to the books
Thank you Preston. This is amazing content.
I look forward to your videos every week and when one come out its like a bright point in my week.
Thank you
Conclusion: Daenerys was born in a lab
Close. But Dany was actually born *from* a lab. It's why the mad queen theories aren't legitimate, a dog would never do that.
Thank you for the many years of great content to watch and then for us to contemplate
This theory literally makes too much sense to me... I was re-reading The world of ice and fire and it actually stood out to me how weird it is that Viserys was born and then Daenerys again after so many miscarriages and trying between the mad king and his wife.
you're the only thing that keeps me going through this desert that is GRRM's writing pace
Keep up the great content. Btw nice production values
I'm so keen for this. Thank you Papa Preston, you've made my day :)
Dany´s story is filled with contradictions, I agree theres more to it.
Why would anyone create a fake Daenerys if they already have Viserys ? It would be weird to have a valyrian looking baby arround and tell her she is Daenerys just in case she becomes important years later.. And if you have a baby (like the Ned+Ashara = Dany theories)and want to hide her, impersonating Daenerys Targaryen would be the stupidest idea in planetos.
The reason to have a fake Dany would be to marry or sell her for money, which is exactly what they did. Women in feudalism were useful for making alliances.
Exactly, no one was really there so making a fictional princess to buy an army with would be very illyrio.
And lys is filled with girls like Dany, in fact, illyrios wife looked like her.
In addition to the above comments, I think "Daenerys" was also brought in as a backup plan, in case Viserys became unmanageable. Targaryens had the reputation for madness already at this point, and anyone who spent time around Viserys would know that boy ain't right. Whichever puppetmaster(s) put this all together surely wanted a Plan B.
But daenerys gave birth to dragons and targaryens are the only dragon lords in the world so i dont see how she is some random lys girl so i dont think she is ned and ashara child, but i theorize that sir arthur dayne is her father as to why its in dorne as are lemon trees,they have valyrian looks, the last azor ahai wielded a special sword to defeat the night king and thier sword is called morning that defeats the long night and daenerys is said to look like ashara dayne maybe bc their related and we now aunts and uncles can look like thier neices and nephews as to why ned says arya is so similar to lyanna and it be funny since in history their was a king arthur who had a wife gwenavier and she had an affair with a man lancelot so what if that story was reversed and Arthur slept with the queen rhaelle who was in a marriage with king aerys which she didn't want.
@@blacksheep9834 you don't need to be a targ to hatch dragons, you just need to be a special type of Valyrian. Also several Targs have gon missing in the past 300 years, Dany might randomly be one of their descendants.
Storm, mayhaps like an 'attack' storm. Stannis storming the castle while Dany is being born = storm born?
Stannis does say they slipped through his fingers.
Not a moment too soon
Glad you are still being you
Bless you Preston
This is my favorite channel, thank you for all the interesting thoughts over the years Preston!