Still so funny to me that the show runners had him row practically to nowhere for a bunch of seasons, having a long offscreen shaggy-dog story, just to have him be the FASTEST character to deliever crucial plot info when needed. Talk about not knowing what to do with a character LMAO
I just realized that all of Preston's videos can lead to one of two conclusions. Either (a) that George is a genius and he's planted the seeds for all these mysteries to be discovered by attentive readers, and he's going to reveal them in the coming books; or (b) George is really not all that careful and all these inconsistencies and mysteries are just author error, and thus the next two books are going to be really disappointing. Here's to hoping it's the former.
Prediction: Preston will not reveal the real reason Qhorin sent Jon over to the wildlings in Part 2, but in Part 3 or Part 4. I think he's learnt a few tricks from GRRM.
5:30 This may be the only time Preston has ever been wrong about anything! The whole bit with the hornblower going for his horn instead of a knife isn't because he was unarmed: he was (bravely) trying to prioritize blowing his horn to warn the wildlings instead of defending himself. That's why the text says "Afterward Jon could admire the courage of the wildling who reached first for his horn instead of his blade."
Eric Sterner I have it between Preston and Order of the Green Hand - their videos are original ideas as well not just the same regurgitated nonsense that Red Team Review Carmine and the rest of these douches put out
Finally, Qhorin was the most interesting character in the series and those last Jon chapters on ACoK are fucking great. Do you think Qhorin hoped Jon would somehow manage to establish peace between the wildlings and the Watch? Because that's practically what Jon tried to do, after he got to see how wildlings are just ordinary people with all their flaws, like the men south of the Wall. A wise man (who knows both sides of the war well) trying to end a thousands year old conflict would fit GRRMs anti-war attitude as well.
There's no way to establish peace between the Watch and the Wildlings until they take a break from the raping, murdering, kidnapping and stealing. The Watch is friendly with some tribes, but how could you have peace with the tribes that seem to insist on crossing the wall and savaging southeners to steal women and well anything else they can carry?
Every population has its bad apples. It's probably naive to imagine a peace with the likes of Weeper, but from what we've seen, a majority of wildlings are just normal people who are shaped by the harsh conditions they lived in. The only major difference they seem to have compared to Westerosi is their obsessive levels of distaste for "kneeling", which is a good thing from a modern viewpoint, but a problematic one in a feudalist world. I'm actually curious how GRRM uses this fact when the push comes to shove. Even so, I don't think a peace is that unlikely. At the end of the day people just want their bellies to be full, and working together as a single people is the way to keep those bellies full, especially in the winter. On another note, carrying women away is how they marry. It's not a barbaric act to them, it's a sort of rite of passage to prove they're worthy of the marriage. These "cultural differences" (GRRM loves to ponder on this both with the wildlings and the Essos plot) can be smoothed out with time (lets not forget, some of the northerners still practice the First Night, they're not that civilized either). After all, wildlings and northerners are just one people that just happened to have their society evolved in different parts of the Wall over time.
There was never peace in asoiaf. The age of heroes was more war torn than GoT (which in my theory is a pre and post apoc circle that just never ended). The north has always fought wildlings, warden of the north's banners have constantly described battles with wildlings and even each other since the age of heroes too with bolton/stark houses being distant blood. Tywin kept the blueprints of war fresh and ongoing in GoT. Targs warred heavily. Ninepenny kings were evidence of that. Yea. There has literally been no peace in asoiaf and wont be. Imo
Beyond what Preston already said, I think he chose Jon because he knew Mance’s army was on the march and would indeed reach the wall. Halfhand maybe also sympathizes with the wildlings and may indeed want the wildlings to pass through the wall. As one of the most experienced rangers, he may know about the Others already and want the wildlings south of the Wall AND have the wall intact. With Jon defecting, he gives the wildlings a possible spokesperson. “I am the shield that guards the realms of men.” He is protecting the wildlings (whom he sees as men) and Westeros as a whole by denying the Others an even larger army of the dead, possibly an army to man the Wall and defend against the Others. THAT, is worth dying for.
i think order of the greenhand got this part right, quorin saw the children of the forrest watching them. jon notices high up on a cliff over head a pair of eyes like harvest moon watching them and doesn't give much thought to it. shortly after that, quorin splits the group up and mentions the enemy has spotted us, jon thinks its the eagle, but it was the children of the forrest quorin was talking about. tell mormont that the trees have eyes again. why would he have included THAT as part of his message to Mormont? any thoughts??
Based on the Varamyr chapters we know that animals that have already been warged, like Ghost, are easier to warg. It's also a popular theory that Bloodraven warged Ghost at the Fist of the First Men to lead him to the buried horn and dragon glass. If Qhorin was working with Bloodraven it might explain why having Ghost on the mission was important.
Jeez, getting tired of all these people assuming George isn't thinking about the plot and all those mysteries are just mistakes or lead nowhere. Why are you watching theories? Why would George even put a line there, unless it's important? In an Q&A George even said that he cut some information on the lore about the Wonders of the World because it was slowing down the story. Why would he cut this, but not let's say the story of Bael the Bard? Obviously because it's important. The books would be really short. And everyone is like "Tinfoil." while everything we know so far screams "Pay attention!" As Syrio said, "Watching is not seeing."
Chekhov's gun. Every element of the series has to mean something, Martin doesn't just make stuff up that does not have a role in the future. Why else would it take him 7 yrs to write 1 book?
It's the moonlight and the reflection off of the snow. Color isn't as important in camouflage as its ability to break up the outline of the wearer - that said if they're keeping to the shadows ghost gives them away - but if they forsake the shadows then ghost is more obscured and their black cloaks give them away. Depending on the terrain there'd be a way to compromise but unless we know the exact terrain I wont risk an assessment. It really isn't as simple as "white for white snow" - what matters is light and movement. A wild animal can wait, stationary, in ambush for food and be perfectly fine with their white coat or hide and remain stationary until a predator fucks off but an animal in movement is a harder prospect. Normally an animal would not move like that, it would be cautious and deliberate. That's the problem. If ghost were hunting he would be fine, but he was shackled to crows and the crows had a schedule to keep - camouflage is best utilized when stationary. Truthful statement in war as it is in the animal kingdom, but with the moon out in full force and all of that light reflecting off of the freshly-lain snow.... well we all obviously know how bright that can be, if you're moving you're in danger. Someone who's looking will see you coming.
Preston Jacobs Also the whole Bael the Bard story does not only mirror Mance but also foreshadow R+L=J. Do you think George would make soo many fakeouts? I think R+L=D&J with Ned taking care of Jon and Ashara (aka Quaithe) taking care of Dany
J Lord agreed but that’s the story that is widely accepted so in the eyes of the people who follow the old gods like the wildlings he is marrying her by just taking her even if she went willingly
It's shown repeatedly in the books (especially in ADwD) that torture at best produces mixed results. Wonder what major new fiasco was going on at the time Martin was writing the books.
I find it quite likely that Qhorin knew about the Others. It is said he travelled further north than any other Night's Watchman. Maybe he wants to get the Wildlings to join them in fighting the Others. He needs Jon to work as a bridge between the Wildlings and Night's Watch.
That’s the comment I just wrote! It makes perfect sense, doesn’t it? That is something worth dying for. Jon needs to see them as people also, and that, coupled with his Stark honor, might make him vouche for their safety in light of the Others and the greater war.
I do wonder if the others and the wights do have a part in some of his choices in the book. He wants to stay hidden from not only the wildlings, but also from any others that are around.
I really enjoyed this Preston. I think there are dozens of characters who are privy to the higher mysteries. We either never get to meet them (Howland Reed, The Hightowers) or we just never get to read their point of view (Qhorin). I once read GRRM say that if we knew the Dayne house words it would ruin the series.
good to see you again, mr. Jacobs. thank you for all the wonderful content. I've been watching since day one and your videos have kept me warm during the long night. you might be wrong about half of it, but rereading the books with your theories in mind have been such a pleasure. thank you.
Qhorin and his crew are well equipped, capable and experienced, and Jon is able as well and they have a direwolf. While I was reading those chapters all that went trough my head is if they made a stand they would have absolutely slaughtered the Wildling party, and my line of thinking was confirmed when at the end we found out there's only 14 of them.
Why does Qhorin sacrifice so many experienced men for this mission? could't the mission have been accomplished with fewer, or less experienced (less valuable) men?
Old men would find it easier to sacrifice themselves if need be, if any of the men had refused, Quorin's plan would have been made much harder, thats the main reason I can think of anyway. If you frame it as "experienced" men then it seems wasteful but not if it's "Old" men
Occassional Vibrations yea it’s more that he knew they would go so these old guys he trusted and Jon being honorable would not turn it DOwn either plus he has some unknown purpose to Qhorin.. I just hate that the show has Jon ask to go with Lord Qhorin instead of being chosen little things like that ruined the early seasons of the show and left them open to demolish it once they pass the books
MY MAN COMIN THRU WITH THE TRUTH Y'ALL!! Man now I understand why I've seen lots of people who watch it then let the info process and rewatch it a few hours later, there is so much info here! You've motivated me for my third read of the books! Now I have your videos to go along with it!
At first I thought there was some connection because I was just rewatching your older series. Then I remember that I had been rewatching your older series for the past 5 days. So I guess it's not that surprising.
I find it cool (if true) that the parallel between two brothers is there. Jon was tricked into marrying the enemy, and Robb essentially went through the same thing.
MAN. Great video Preston! I remember reading these particular Jon chapters and thinking that something felt really strange about the whole situation. The main thing I caught onto was why would a seasoned Ranger be so eager to take a newly inducted Brother on such a crucial mission. At the time I assumed it was just Martin's way of keeping his main antagonist in a dire and exciting situation for the readers. I never imagined that Halfhand could have had an entirely different motive. Something else I'm curious about is whether or not any other Brothers knew about this secret mission. Can't wait for part 2!
Back in the days of season 3 I always found the part of Jon's mission north of the Wall the weakest and the hardest to understand. 1) Why would Qhorin take a green untested boy he doesn't know and who isn't even a ranger for this super important mission? 2) Why would he let Jon execute Ygritte instead of doing it himself? It wouldn't take more than 5 seconds to grab his weapon, slice her throat and make sure she's dead. 3) Why would they leave Jon behind to do that? The killing should have been fast, after having taken a couple of steps Qhorin should have turned around and asked why Ygritte's throat hadn't been cut yet. But no, not only do they give him a ridiculous amount of time, they even go far enough away for the the groups to get completely separated. 4) Regardless of Ygritte, why leave Jon behind anyway? He's a new guy and has never been in that part of the world. Who would leave such a novice in unknown enemy territory? There's no way Jon would have found his way around. Leaving him behind would have been a death sentence if he hadn't been captured. My conclusion back then was that it was sloppy writing which did't make any sense, which is why I found it the weakest part of season 3 and possibly even the entire show up until then. My answers were: 1) Because Jon is the main characters and thus always gets chosen for these kind of things, even if it makes no sense in-universe 2) Again, Jon is the main character, so he gets to be the active one, the character who does the things. 3) The plot required Jon to be taken captive, the whole capturing of Ygritte was only a means to and end. After all, Ygritte's role was fairly minimal in the grand scheme of things, she was just the social grease allowing Jon overcome wildling suspicion without too much friction. Once her role was fulfilled, she got booted out of the story. 4) Probaly because a real fight scene where they would get captured would be too expensive and by isolating Jon he and Ygritte get some alone time for bonding which will resonate well with the audience. These are all meta-reasons because I couldnt find any decent in-univers reasons
I just started getting into this channel and I'm super impressed! Your theories are well crafted and not just crackpot tinfoil stuff. Keep up the great work Preston! Looking forward to part 2.
Hey Preston when Qhorin decides the party has to turn back doesn’t he say that they have been spotted not that the eagle has spotted them, pointing out to Jon two large yellow eyes looking back at them (referencing the Children of the Forest) and then sends a man back to the Old Bear saying the old powers are awakening or something to that affect.. I think it was his distrust of the children that makes him turn back insinuating that he has some knowledge of their desires or purpose with mankind, not the wildling skinchanged Eagle.. I believe I saw a video about this by another UA-camr but either way you do seem on point here Qhorin knew something that he isn’t letting on and we do not get to find out what.. I’m interested to hear part two .. don’t listen to these complainers just put out a monster video so we don’t have to wait for the next part
Qhorin Halfhand, Jeor Mormont and Mance Rayder are all working together. They know that the battle for life, vs the others are coming. The need to gather the wildlings south of the wall, ready to take up arms when the real battle begins.
Brillant,id thought the halfhand picked jon because he knew he was a warg which would be good for scouting, then because he admitted that yggritte was a bit of a set up i thought he was creating options for later, completely missed the deliberate slow travel through the pass though. Great analysis,looking forward to part 2 :)
Damn what a cliffhanger! Great job laying the foundation for another classic theory. Qhorin Halfhand is certainly one of the most mysterious characters we have met. Most people in the fandom seem to think he's Arthur Danye, but that just seems silly to me. Can't wait to find out what you think his true intentions were!
Why would the Ghost be eyecatching? He is surrounded by snow for crying out loud! That should easily disguise him even in the dark. Heck Black would be more eyecatching in a full moon, there is a reason ninja's wore navy blue instead of black after all.
And information from someone who was tortured is useless, people will say anything to stop being tortured whether it be truth, lies when the torturer doesn't believe you when you told the truth or what they believe their torturer wants to hear.
There seems to quite a bit of rock as well. The show makes us think that north of the wall is just covered in snow and nothing else. Plus, Shadowcats seem to get by on their dark color.
VelkanKiador Its not useless, even though you are correct that some people would say anything to stop being tortured, you can still get a lot of reliable info. The trick is being able to tell if someone is lying or not. Take the operations we did in Guantanamo for example. We did get a lot of false info from captured terror suspects, but A LOT of it was valid. That's why coalition forces were able to pull off as many successful raids as they did, none of that could have been possible if all the info from the suspects that were tortured was unreliable.
I just want to point out that it makes no sense for Ghost to stick out at night. He's the same colour as the snow when they're both lit by the sun. When the sun goes down, the snow gets darker, the wolf gets darker and they're still the same colour. It would actually be harder to see Ghost at night because of the lack of shadows. Its GRRMs mistake, though, not yours. Unless GRRM intended to imply that Ghost is luminous, but I think someone would have mentioned the glowing dog.
Hey Preston, love your stuff. Just wanted to ask/bring up a few things. Ebben only mentions torturing men. While this seems trivial, he may not be comfortable torturing what is effectively a teenage girl. Also as ygritte was a spear wife, she may not have been intended to be on watch. And 2 wildlings may be the standard number for watches. I think she does mention something in her conversation with Jon about being recently "stolen" I'm likely wrong or misremembering this stuff, and once again I'd like to stress I do love your work
This is just inconsistent with the culture portrayed in the books. John's reluctance to hurt a woman is weird in ASoIaF, intended to make him more relatable to a modern audience. Think about the other torturers in the books. Would any of them have a problem with hurting a woman? So if Ebben shared Jon's unusual objection to violence against women, if that were Martin's intent, there would almost certainly be something in the text to indicate that. Especially if, as Preston believes, this whole adventure is meant to be scrutinized and taken apart to find the truth. But of course, this is just an example of Martin fucking up his character motivations because he wanted to make something happen in the plot. Literally every writer makes this mistake, it's almost impossible not to. "I need Jon to get stuck with the Wildlings so I can make that awesome tragic love story happen. Shit! How do I make this work? Uh, okay, so some legendary ranger that I'm just introducing now will take Jon ranging, fuck up massively, and sacrifice his own life to save Jon! Brilliant. Let's just hope nobody thinks too hard about this. Oh, what the hell, it's a fantasy novel." That's probably closer than you think. Take it from a writer.
The one thing that Preston almost always seems to forget is _human error._ He treats the characters like functions in an algorithm, and character actions like inputs & outputs.
Why is the most feared and experienced ranger relying on a Skinchanger on his side. Because they have SKINCHANGERs and he assumes one on his side is a multiplier/ advantage.
@fazediamond5671 ghost. The boy has a giant direwolf that follows his every command. A few people comment on the connection between the Starks and their wolves. Half hand has more experience then most with Skinchangers due to interacting with Wildlings. So he sees a boy with a utterly faithful Direwolf and it’s not a leap to piece together if your aware that they exist.
Thank you for all the content you put out, Preston. When I found your channel I had just finished catching up on the shows in 2015, but after watching all your videos I’ve become immersed in this world. Now I’m almost done with Dance and you’re my favorite channel on UA-cam
I think Qhorin was also using Jon to prove another point with Ghost. He must have known that Wildings have skinchangers among them, a gift the Starks could have as well. The problem is that no other known Starks have been wargers for decades, all of them are located behind the Wall. He must have also noticed that the Free Folk were urgently joining and searching for the Horn all over, as a sign of the Others. So if a Stark kid is a Warg over the Wall, Wildings are coming together, blue eyed corpses are rising, and a possible Others sighting, all points to one thing. The magic is returning from the Wall and spreading over it. Which means the Children of the Forest are back and are using the Weirwoods. Hence why he wanted to tell Mormont that "the old powers are waking, that he faces giants and wargs and worse. Tell him that the trees have eyes again." That's why they went out for Ghost later on, to see if Jon's dream was real, if he was warging. Jon also notices eyes watching them on a cliff before Qhorin says they've been spotted and splits them up. Does he think the Children are working with the Wildings?
Half-Hand: veteran, soldier, watchman. Half-Hand: matchmaker with a soft spot for doggos. Jokes aside, Jon Snow, bastard Stark (complete with cool sigil sidekick), raised by The Right Honourable Eddard Stark, young, idealistic, and pretty to boot? The Night's Watch, likely waiting for the time and candidate for such a role for MONTHS (if not years), struck Proverbial Gold with sixteen year old Jon, raised all gentle-like, and Actual Volunteer. I mean, most of the men of The Watch are bitter old men who HATE the free folk after years of warring with them, conscripted criminals of anything from murder to peeving off their local lord, and only Jon and Satin are really described favourably in the looks department. Jon pretty much ended up in a reverse-Sansa situation: idealists set up for one marriage (The Night's Watch/a golden prince) end up in arranged matches for Long Game political warfare.
I buy some of this, but it seems unlikely to me that Qhorin would intentionally kill himself and two other experienced rangers in order to pass Jon off as a mole- was there really no better way to get Jon to join the wildlings? Perhaps it was his plan all along to somehow induct Jon into his wildlings, but perhaps his method of doing that changed as the situation progressed. I just find it very hard to believe that Qhorin would intend it to be a triple suicide mission from the outset.
Plus it also depends on Lord Commander Mormont dying, Jon Snow becoming commander after, the Wildings trusting Jon and the Night's Watch, and the Night's Watch going along with if not trusting Jon and the Wildlings. Also Mance Rayder not successfully breaching the wall and defeating the Night's Watch.
I use to argue these videos but now i just listen and enjoy. No literature is meant to be annalyzed this thoroughly snd "as usual, im probably wrong about half of this"
I'm not certain Qhorin was convinced Jon was a warg or that his vision was true one until they found Ghost and saw his injuries matched the vision. That was always how I interpreted the reason why Qhorin decided it was time to go.
I know i'm years late, but in armies today watchers or piquet duty usually has 2 people in a staggered piquet, not 3. Just a massive assumption that that 3 people should be used for piquet and qhorin is wrong. But IRL he isn't. What are your guys thoughts?
If only they had Gendry's speed and stamina. The wildlings would have not caught up to them and they would've made it back to the wall in no time.
LMAO!
LMAO I didn't need a reminder of this. you just made me spit out my food laughing man good one haha
I... I can't believe it. I just can't believe the audacity of it all, even after three or four years.
Still so funny to me that the show runners had him row practically to nowhere for a bunch of seasons, having a long offscreen shaggy-dog story, just to have him be the FASTEST character to deliever crucial plot info when needed.
Talk about not knowing what to do with a character LMAO
I mean tbf after rowing around on the sea for literal years you would expect him to have superhuman stamina
I just realized that all of Preston's videos can lead to one of two conclusions. Either (a) that George is a genius and he's planted the seeds for all these mysteries to be discovered by attentive readers, and he's going to reveal them in the coming books; or (b) George is really not all that careful and all these inconsistencies and mysteries are just author error, and thus the next two books are going to be really disappointing. Here's to hoping it's the former.
I heavily doubt GRRm is going to reveal even half of the riddles he intoduced. Man likes his mystery too much.
it's hard to say if George is a genius or not, but Preston definitely is
C) Preston is GRRM.
Holy crap, man. That would be so amazing.
Carlos Pacheco lmao nice
Prediction: Preston will not reveal the real reason Qhorin sent Jon over to the wildlings in Part 2, but in Part 3 or Part 4. I think he's learnt a few tricks from GRRM.
To be fair he did complete the series though 😆
5:30
This may be the only time Preston has ever been wrong about anything! The whole bit with the hornblower going for his horn instead of a knife isn't because he was unarmed: he was (bravely) trying to prioritize blowing his horn to warn the wildlings instead of defending himself. That's why the text says "Afterward Jon could admire the courage of the wildling who reached first for his horn instead of his blade."
Preston is often wrong about many things; not always, but often.
I agree on horn part of your comment though.
Sorry but he didn't say the wildling didn't go for his horn he said Stone snake should have killed him quickly and got to Ygritte first
Preston is wrong a lot but he still very good
Past week or so ive been binge watching your old videos. By far the best theory videos about asoiaf on UA-cam.
Eric Sterner gotta respectfully disagree Sir, the river land series takes the cake
@Reuter951 - Didn't he meant all of them, thought?
Rhaenyra Reigns ah thank you, a misread but still a great debate
Eric Sterner *best tin foil theorist on UA-cam
Eric Sterner I have it between Preston and Order of the Green Hand - their videos are original ideas as well not just the same regurgitated nonsense that Red Team Review Carmine and the rest of these douches put out
Finally, Qhorin was the most interesting character in the series and those last Jon chapters on ACoK are fucking great. Do you think Qhorin hoped Jon would somehow manage to establish peace between the wildlings and the Watch? Because that's practically what Jon tried to do, after he got to see how wildlings are just ordinary people with all their flaws, like the men south of the Wall. A wise man (who knows both sides of the war well) trying to end a thousands year old conflict would fit GRRMs anti-war attitude as well.
_ah... sharp_
There's no way to establish peace between the Watch and the Wildlings until they take a break from the raping, murdering, kidnapping and stealing.
The Watch is friendly with some tribes, but how could you have peace with the tribes that seem to insist on crossing the wall and savaging southeners to steal women and well anything else they can carry?
Every population has its bad apples. It's probably naive to imagine a peace with the likes of Weeper, but from what we've seen, a majority of wildlings are just normal people who are shaped by the harsh conditions they lived in. The only major difference they seem to have compared to Westerosi is their obsessive levels of distaste for "kneeling", which is a good thing from a modern viewpoint, but a problematic one in a feudalist world. I'm actually curious how GRRM uses this fact when the push comes to shove. Even so, I don't think a peace is that unlikely. At the end of the day people just want their bellies to be full, and working together as a single people is the way to keep those bellies full, especially in the winter.
On another note, carrying women away is how they marry. It's not a barbaric act to them, it's a sort of rite of passage to prove they're worthy of the marriage. These "cultural differences" (GRRM loves to ponder on this both with the wildlings and the Essos plot) can be smoothed out with time (lets not forget, some of the northerners still practice the First Night, they're not that civilized either). After all, wildlings and northerners are just one people that just happened to have their society evolved in different parts of the Wall over time.
There was never peace in asoiaf. The age of heroes was more war torn than GoT (which in my theory is a pre and post apoc circle that just never ended). The north has always fought wildlings, warden of the north's banners have constantly described battles with wildlings and even each other since the age of heroes too with bolton/stark houses being distant blood. Tywin kept the blueprints of war fresh and ongoing in GoT. Targs warred heavily. Ninepenny kings were evidence of that. Yea. There has literally been no peace in asoiaf and wont be. Imo
Same goes with our own human history. Yet, wise men still try to keep peace as best as they can.
Jon brings plausible deniability to the mission; he knows nothing.
gold
i literally screamed out loud "yessssss"
thank you preston
Yahrnam 918 haha so did I
**raises hand** Guilty as charged.
Every damn time I see a theory video posted.
One of us. One of us.
Beyond what Preston already said, I think he chose Jon because he knew Mance’s army was on the march and would indeed reach the wall. Halfhand maybe also sympathizes with the wildlings and may indeed want the wildlings to pass through the wall. As one of the most experienced rangers, he may know about the Others already and want the wildlings south of the Wall AND have the wall intact. With Jon defecting, he gives the wildlings a possible spokesperson. “I am the shield that guards the realms of men.” He is protecting the wildlings (whom he sees as men) and Westeros as a whole by denying the Others an even larger army of the dead, possibly an army to man the Wall and defend against the Others. THAT, is worth dying for.
DahLekKnight yess
i think order of the greenhand got this part right, quorin saw the children of the forrest watching them. jon notices high up on a cliff over head a pair of eyes like harvest moon watching them and doesn't give much thought to it. shortly after that, quorin splits the group up and mentions the enemy has spotted us, jon thinks its the eagle, but it was the children of the forrest quorin was talking about. tell mormont that the trees have eyes again. why would he have included THAT as part of his message to Mormont? any thoughts??
That is a great point actually
Damn I didn’t read this but basically said the same thing above lol
**Qhorin** not quorin.... lord of light, forgive my stupidity
Ben Perow *mindblown*
Ben Perow WOW, fuck that makes a lot of sense. Gonna reread now thanks!
Based on the Varamyr chapters we know that animals that have already been warged, like Ghost, are easier to warg. It's also a popular theory that Bloodraven warged Ghost at the Fist of the First Men to lead him to the buried horn and dragon glass. If Qhorin was working with Bloodraven it might explain why having Ghost on the mission was important.
My god, I'm more excited for Preston's Nights Watch related videos than the release of WoW!
Benedikt Göpel good cause we're only going to get one of these two anyway
Mariana Sala LOL ACCURATE
@Mariana Sala
Too true... too true...
Well it's like saying " I am more excited to fuck my girlfriend than a model" because one of them will never happen...
Benedikt Göpel 😂 I stopped playing when I got my notification ... WoW can wait time for Preston 😎
Jeez, getting tired of all these people assuming George isn't thinking about the plot and all those mysteries are just mistakes or lead nowhere. Why are you watching theories? Why would George even put a line there, unless it's important? In an Q&A George even said that he cut some information on the lore about the Wonders of the World because it was slowing down the story. Why would he cut this, but not let's say the story of Bael the Bard? Obviously because it's important. The books would be really short.
And everyone is like "Tinfoil." while everything we know so far screams "Pay attention!"
As Syrio said, "Watching is not seeing."
I could not agree more! Why do people seem to want to dumb down George’s work?
I’m more or less a full on Preston Truther.
Chekhov's gun. Every element of the series has to mean something, Martin doesn't just make stuff up that does not have a role in the future. Why else would it take him 7 yrs to write 1 book?
@Marat
**cues Papa Roach's "Stop Looking Start Seeing"**
Corn = Qhorin
Buster Call My Gods...
By the Seven...
R'hllor keep us...
The bottom of the lore iceberg...
I have a hard time getting that Ghost would stand out. A white wolf in a winter landscape. There is a reason why winter soldiers dress in white.
Polar bears and artic foxes clearly evolved to be completely white because it makes them stand out in the snow.......... Hmm
It's the moonlight and the reflection off of the snow. Color isn't as important in camouflage as its ability to break up the outline of the wearer - that said if they're keeping to the shadows ghost gives them away - but if they forsake the shadows then ghost is more obscured and their black cloaks give them away. Depending on the terrain there'd be a way to compromise but unless we know the exact terrain I wont risk an assessment. It really isn't as simple as "white for white snow" - what matters is light and movement.
A wild animal can wait, stationary, in ambush for food and be perfectly fine with their white coat or hide and remain stationary until a predator fucks off but an animal in movement is a harder prospect. Normally an animal would not move like that, it would be cautious and deliberate. That's the problem. If ghost were hunting he would be fine, but he was shackled to crows and the crows had a schedule to keep - camouflage is best utilized when stationary. Truthful statement in war as it is in the animal kingdom, but with the moon out in full force and all of that light reflecting off of the freshly-lain snow.... well we all obviously know how bright that can be, if you're moving you're in danger. Someone who's looking will see you coming.
omg, I never would've caught this on my own. At least, not before I realized the story was so hidden beneath the text. This channel is beyond amazing.
my god Preston what an excruciating cliffhanger! please tell me the next part is already in the pipeline.
Kidnapping being considered marriage amongst wildlings, kind of like Rhaegar kidnapping Lyanna?
or Bael(ish) stealing Sansa. GRRM loves these parallels.
Preston Jacobs Also the whole Bael the Bard story does not only mirror Mance but also foreshadow R+L=J.
Do you think George would make soo many fakeouts? I think R+L=D&J with Ned taking care of Jon and Ashara (aka Quaithe) taking care of Dany
J Lord agreed but that’s the story that is widely accepted so in the eyes of the people who follow the old gods like the wildlings he is marrying her by just taking her even if she went willingly
Gany Kaliya 🙄 duh lol
J Lord I agree. Rhaegar is still an immoral man. And he probably didn't care about Lyanna. It was all about the prophecy.
It's shown repeatedly in the books (especially in ADwD) that torture at best produces mixed results. Wonder what major new fiasco was going on at the time Martin was writing the books.
Rip blue bard:’^(
I find it quite likely that Qhorin knew about the Others. It is said he travelled further north than any other Night's Watchman. Maybe he wants to get the Wildlings to join them in fighting the Others. He needs Jon to work as a bridge between the Wildlings and Night's Watch.
That’s the comment I just wrote! It makes perfect sense, doesn’t it? That is something worth dying for. Jon needs to see them as people also, and that, coupled with his Stark honor, might make him vouche for their safety in light of the Others and the greater war.
I do wonder if the others and the wights do have a part in some of his choices in the book. He wants to stay hidden from not only the wildlings, but also from any others that are around.
I really enjoyed this Preston. I think there are dozens of characters who are privy to the higher mysteries. We either never get to meet them (Howland Reed, The Hightowers) or we just never get to read their point of view (Qhorin). I once read GRRM say that if we knew the Dayne house words it would ruin the series.
good to see you again, mr. Jacobs. thank you for all the wonderful content. I've been watching since day one and your videos have kept me warm during the long night. you might be wrong about half of it, but rereading the books with your theories in mind have been such a pleasure. thank you.
Preston always gets a thumbs up before the video even starts.
Michael Elbare agreed
I just do that for videos who's topic I really like
Qhorin and his crew are well equipped, capable and experienced, and Jon is able as well and they have a direwolf. While I was reading those chapters all that went trough my head is if they made a stand they would have absolutely slaughtered the Wildling party, and my line of thinking was confirmed when at the end we found out there's only 14 of them.
Maybe Greenhand are right that Qhorin wanted Jon to meet Mance
Why does Qhorin sacrifice so many experienced men for this mission? could't the mission have been accomplished with fewer, or less experienced (less valuable) men?
Lesser? :\
Old men would find it easier to sacrifice themselves if need be, if any of the men had refused, Quorin's plan would have been made much harder, thats the main reason I can think of anyway. If you frame it as "experienced" men then it seems wasteful but not if it's "Old" men
The whole expedition to the fist was just one big sacrifice, in my opinion. Changes. Making way for the New night’s watch of wildings
Did they all die? I don’t trust GRRM off-screen deaths.
Occassional Vibrations yea it’s more that he knew they would go so these old guys he trusted and Jon being honorable would not turn it DOwn either plus he has some unknown purpose to Qhorin.. I just hate that the show has Jon ask to go with Lord Qhorin instead of being chosen little things like that ruined the early seasons of the show and left them open to demolish it once they pass the books
*How to recruit a wilding army*.....
A wolf to find
A flame to bind
A dragon to hide
In the mist of the wild
My day always instantly gets better when Preston posts a new video
MY MAN COMIN THRU WITH THE TRUTH Y'ALL!!
Man now I understand why I've seen lots of people who watch it then let the info process and rewatch it a few hours later, there is so much info here! You've motivated me for my third read of the books! Now I have your videos to go along with it!
Awesome brotha! I was wondering when you’d get to the half hand. Thanks for your hard work man, really love these videos
At first I thought there was some connection because I was just rewatching your older series. Then I remember that I had been rewatching your older series for the past 5 days. So I guess it's not that surprising.
Unless you're telepathically creating a hunger in us to want your videos to be released...
Was there ever any doubt about it...?
Ned was also tricked into marrying cat..for hoster tullys army..after he was already married to ashara dayne
John is keeping up the family tradition.
How is a white dire wolf easy to see in the snow at night?
I find it cool (if true) that the parallel between two brothers is there. Jon was tricked into marrying the enemy, and Robb essentially went through the same thing.
I just don't understand why he'd sacrifice himself and his men knowing how bad the Watch needs men like them right now.
MAN. Great video Preston! I remember reading these particular Jon chapters and thinking that something felt really strange about the whole situation. The main thing I caught onto was why would a seasoned Ranger be so eager to take a newly inducted Brother on such a crucial mission. At the time I assumed it was just Martin's way of keeping his main antagonist in a dire and exciting situation for the readers. I never imagined that Halfhand could have had an entirely different motive. Something else I'm curious about is whether or not any other Brothers knew about this secret mission. Can't wait for part 2!
Hot damn Jacob! Your ability to find threads and blow open whole new avenues of discussion never ceases to amaze me. Keep up the good work :)
The half hand is my brother and his son is Pod.
Dr. Qyburn M.D interesting
Yo, the hype for this one has been real. Good to see it's just as great as I'd imagined.
you’ve been blowing my mind the last 48 hours. holy shit, best asoiaf youtuber out
Chad Summerchild is needed in every video ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
Tia Marie I agree, the Queen of the North!
Chad summerchild is game of thrones
No chad summerchild is only in game of thrones videos.. not ASOIAF videos.. just to show how stupid DnD are lmao
He is probably over running his own youtube channel atm
Brian Achim you forgot the *tips fedora*
I heard about some of these (mostly if your own videos) but damn, that cliffhanger! Can't wait to hear the rest!
Halfhand+Mance=Jon CONFIRMED
elden white the ship that was promised ♥
after years is finally here
really excited for this vids
just got home praying you would have a new video up.... and you literally posted this 7mins ago! my man.
Not to be that guy but I need part 2 ASAP!!! You are the man Preston your content never gets old!
Back in the days of season 3 I always found the part of Jon's mission north of the Wall the weakest and the hardest to understand.
1) Why would Qhorin take a green untested boy he doesn't know and who isn't even a ranger for this super important mission?
2) Why would he let Jon execute Ygritte instead of doing it himself? It wouldn't take more than 5 seconds to grab his weapon, slice her throat and make sure she's dead.
3) Why would they leave Jon behind to do that? The killing should have been fast, after having taken a couple of steps Qhorin should have turned around and asked why Ygritte's throat hadn't been cut yet. But no, not only do they give him a ridiculous amount of time, they even go far enough away for the the groups to get completely separated.
4) Regardless of Ygritte, why leave Jon behind anyway? He's a new guy and has never been in that part of the world. Who would leave such a novice in unknown enemy territory? There's no way Jon would have found his way around. Leaving him behind would have been a death sentence if he hadn't been captured.
My conclusion back then was that it was sloppy writing which did't make any sense, which is why I found it the weakest part of season 3 and possibly even the entire show up until then.
My answers were:
1) Because Jon is the main characters and thus always gets chosen for these kind of things, even if it makes no sense in-universe
2) Again, Jon is the main character, so he gets to be the active one, the character who does the things.
3) The plot required Jon to be taken captive, the whole capturing of Ygritte was only a means to and end. After all, Ygritte's role was fairly minimal in the grand scheme of things, she was just the social grease allowing Jon overcome wildling suspicion without too much friction. Once her role was fulfilled, she got booted out of the story.
4) Probaly because a real fight scene where they would get captured would be too expensive and by isolating Jon he and Ygritte get some alone time for bonding which will resonate well with the audience.
These are all meta-reasons because I couldnt find any decent in-univers reasons
You sir just made my day 10x better
The music at the opening of this video reminds me of the "Giants" motive from "Der Ring des Nibelungen"
GRRM seriously tryna convince us that wearing black is better camouflage than white in a frozen tundra.
@fazediamond5671 no ? Do they have eyes?
I took a huge breath and immediately froze when I saw Half-Hand on the thumbnail. He’s got to be the greatest character in both series!
I just started getting into this channel and I'm super impressed! Your theories are well crafted and not just crackpot tinfoil stuff. Keep up the great work Preston! Looking forward to part 2.
Hey Preston when Qhorin decides the party has to turn back doesn’t he say that they have been spotted not that the eagle has spotted them, pointing out to Jon two large yellow eyes looking back at them (referencing the Children of the Forest) and then sends a man back to the Old Bear saying the old powers are awakening or something to that affect.. I think it was his distrust of the children that makes him turn back insinuating that he has some knowledge of their desires or purpose with mankind, not the wildling skinchanged Eagle.. I believe I saw a video about this by another UA-camr but either way you do seem on point here Qhorin knew something that he isn’t letting on and we do not get to find out what.. I’m interested to hear part two .. don’t listen to these complainers just put out a monster video so we don’t have to wait for the next part
+Preston Jacobs @Preston Jacobs #PrestonJacobs
"Magic of the Starks" is a perfectly good reason. You just don't understand the thought process of people who actually believe in the supernatural.
HE ACCUALLY DID IT, THE ABSOLUTE MADMAN!
Qhorin Halfhand, Jeor Mormont and Mance Rayder are all working together. They know that the battle for life, vs the others are coming. The need to gather the wildlings south of the wall, ready to take up arms when the real battle begins.
Brillant,id thought the halfhand picked jon because he knew he was a warg which would be good for scouting, then because he admitted that yggritte was a bit of a set up i thought he was creating options for later, completely missed the deliberate slow travel through the pass though. Great analysis,looking forward to part 2 :)
Damn what a cliffhanger! Great job laying the foundation for another classic theory. Qhorin Halfhand is certainly one of the most mysterious characters we have met. Most people in the fandom seem to think he's Arthur Danye, but that just seems silly to me. Can't wait to find out what you think his true intentions were!
Why would the Ghost be eyecatching? He is surrounded by snow for crying out loud! That should easily disguise him even in the dark. Heck Black would be more eyecatching in a full moon, there is a reason ninja's wore navy blue instead of black after all.
And information from someone who was tortured is useless, people will say anything to stop being tortured whether it be truth, lies when the torturer doesn't believe you when you told the truth or what they believe their torturer wants to hear.
There seems to quite a bit of rock as well. The show makes us think that north of the wall is just covered in snow and nothing else. Plus, Shadowcats seem to get by on their dark color.
Ah fair enough.
VelkanKiador Its not useless, even though you are correct that some people would say anything to stop being tortured, you can still get a lot of reliable info. The trick is being able to tell if someone is lying or not. Take the operations we did in Guantanamo for example. We did get a lot of false info from captured terror suspects, but A LOT of it was valid. That's why coalition forces were able to pull off as many successful raids as they did, none of that could have been possible if all the info from the suspects that were tortured was unreliable.
VelkanKiador Also moon light would reflect off of Ghosts super white fur, making him stand out in the dark.
Ghost isn’t a pet it’s an amazing asset to have a warg with you sorry he isn’t the color you prefer
Maybe Qhorin knows torture doesn't work
I just want to point out that it makes no sense for Ghost to stick out at night.
He's the same colour as the snow when they're both lit by the sun. When the sun goes down, the snow gets darker, the wolf gets darker and they're still the same colour. It would actually be harder to see Ghost at night because of the lack of shadows.
Its GRRMs mistake, though, not yours.
Unless GRRM intended to imply that Ghost is luminous, but I think someone would have mentioned the glowing dog.
A Direwolf isn't a pet... And no Northman would EVER see one that way....
Now this is the kind of analysis we need
I see new Preston video. I'm happy. I watch Preston video. Still happy. Part 2 hype!!!
Hey Preston, love your stuff. Just wanted to ask/bring up a few things.
Ebben only mentions torturing men. While this seems trivial, he may not be comfortable torturing what is effectively a teenage girl.
Also as ygritte was a spear wife, she may not have been intended to be on watch. And 2 wildlings may be the standard number for watches. I think she does mention something in her conversation with Jon about being recently "stolen"
I'm likely wrong or misremembering this stuff, and once again I'd like to stress I do love your work
David Schofield you are right that she essentially tells John you killed my boyfriend so now you my boyfriend. I remember that as well.
This is just inconsistent with the culture portrayed in the books. John's reluctance to hurt a woman is weird in ASoIaF, intended to make him more relatable to a modern audience. Think about the other torturers in the books. Would any of them have a problem with hurting a woman?
So if Ebben shared Jon's unusual objection to violence against women, if that were Martin's intent, there would almost certainly be something in the text to indicate that. Especially if, as Preston believes, this whole adventure is meant to be scrutinized and taken apart to find the truth.
But of course, this is just an example of Martin fucking up his character motivations because he wanted to make something happen in the plot. Literally every writer makes this mistake, it's almost impossible not to.
"I need Jon to get stuck with the Wildlings so I can make that awesome tragic love story happen. Shit! How do I make this work? Uh, okay, so some legendary ranger that I'm just introducing now will take Jon ranging, fuck up massively, and sacrifice his own life to save Jon! Brilliant. Let's just hope nobody thinks too hard about this. Oh, what the hell, it's a fantasy novel."
That's probably closer than you think. Take it from a writer.
+Yunikage Wow.
Writing an essay and absolutely squeaked when I saw this pop up! Cheers El Prestondente! :D
Woot! New theory video! Love your work Preston :)
We’ve waited so long best Wednesday everrrrrrr !!
The halfhands wits left him with his hand
The one thing that Preston almost always seems to forget is _human error._
He treats the characters like functions in an algorithm, and character actions like inputs & outputs.
The most probable explanation is that GRRM wrote this book in like 2 years and we’ve had 20 years to analyze it
Underrated GOTuber
My lord THE NOTIFICATIOIN SQUAD IS *AT THE GATES*
Everytime you use that dog I immediately think of Chad Summerchild in the dognet and then have to stop the video because I keep laughing.
when the notification popped up i felt absolute happiness
Daaayyyumn Preston, i can't wait for part 2!
i have been wating on this video since 4ever!!!
Why is the most feared and experienced ranger relying on a Skinchanger on his side. Because they have SKINCHANGERs and he assumes one on his side is a multiplier/ advantage.
@fazediamond5671 ghost. The boy has a giant direwolf that follows his every command. A few people comment on the connection between the Starks and their wolves. Half hand has more experience then most with Skinchangers due to interacting with Wildlings. So he sees a boy with a utterly faithful Direwolf and it’s not a leap to piece together if your aware that they exist.
Preston hooked me again, I guess the next few months are going to be thinking about the Halfhand’s plans.
Thank you for all the content you put out, Preston. When I found your channel I had just finished catching up on the shows in 2015, but after watching all your videos I’ve become immersed in this world. Now I’m almost done with Dance and you’re my favorite channel on UA-cam
I think Qhorin was also using Jon to prove another point with Ghost. He must have known that Wildings have skinchangers among them, a gift the Starks could have as well. The problem is that no other known Starks have been wargers for decades, all of them are located behind the Wall. He must have also noticed that the Free Folk were urgently joining and searching for the Horn all over, as a sign of the Others. So if a Stark kid is a Warg over the Wall, Wildings are coming together, blue eyed corpses are rising, and a possible Others sighting, all points to one thing. The magic is returning from the Wall and spreading over it. Which means the Children of the Forest are back and are using the Weirwoods. Hence why he wanted to tell Mormont that "the old powers are waking, that he faces giants and wargs and worse. Tell him that the trees have eyes again." That's why they went out for Ghost later on, to see if Jon's dream was real, if he was warging. Jon also notices eyes watching them on a cliff before Qhorin says they've been spotted and splits them up. Does he think the Children are working with the Wildings?
I haven't been this excited for a new PJ series since the Alliances of Iron!
Yet another title based on the moves of podrick the sex God
Half-Hand: veteran, soldier, watchman.
Half-Hand: matchmaker with a soft spot for doggos.
Jokes aside, Jon Snow, bastard Stark (complete with cool sigil sidekick), raised by The Right Honourable Eddard Stark, young, idealistic, and pretty to boot? The Night's Watch, likely waiting for the time and candidate for such a role for MONTHS (if not years), struck Proverbial Gold with sixteen year old Jon, raised all gentle-like, and Actual Volunteer. I mean, most of the men of The Watch are bitter old men who HATE the free folk after years of warring with them, conscripted criminals of anything from murder to peeving off their local lord, and only Jon and Satin are really described favourably in the looks department. Jon pretty much ended up in a reverse-Sansa situation: idealists set up for one marriage (The Night's Watch/a golden prince) end up in arranged matches for Long Game political warfare.
I think in reality, grrm is the one who wanted jon to go over to the wildings, not the halfhand. Thankfully Prestons story definitely makes it fit :)
took you long enough
i was jonesing for a video
Qorin was long overdue!! Thanks dude.
preston you tease, hope part 2 comes up soon!
Thanks for the bday gift Preston!
I buy some of this, but it seems unlikely to me that Qhorin would intentionally kill himself and two other experienced rangers in order to pass Jon off as a mole- was there really no better way to get Jon to join the wildlings? Perhaps it was his plan all along to somehow induct Jon into his wildlings, but perhaps his method of doing that changed as the situation progressed. I just find it very hard to believe that Qhorin would intend it to be a triple suicide mission from the outset.
Plus it also depends on Lord Commander Mormont dying, Jon Snow becoming commander after, the Wildings trusting Jon and the Night's Watch, and the Night's Watch going along with if not trusting Jon and the Wildlings. Also Mance Rayder not successfully breaching the wall and defeating the Night's Watch.
The half hand wants to save the wildlings! or at least get them south of the wall away from the others. Great video as always.
The intros for these vids are A jaun
These Videos are so addictive.
Awesome video.....as usual!
I use to argue these videos but now i just listen and enjoy. No literature is meant to be annalyzed this thoroughly snd "as usual, im probably wrong about half of this"
I'm not certain Qhorin was convinced Jon was a warg or that his vision was true one until they found Ghost and saw his injuries matched the vision. That was always how I interpreted the reason why Qhorin decided it was time to go.
The half hand decided to turn around once they find ghost because ghosts wounds confirmed Jon’s dream was real.
Corn Halfham is my favorite character. He sounds so tasty
I know i'm years late, but in armies today watchers or piquet duty usually has 2 people in a staggered piquet, not 3. Just a massive assumption that that 3 people should be used for piquet and qhorin is wrong. But IRL he isn't. What are your guys thoughts?