Election Debate Reaction: Sunak needs 'discipline' but Starmer not clear on taxes | Peter Hitchens
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- "It's problem if people take against you, whether it's for interrupting or because they don't like your voice"
Rishi Sunak will need to "discipline himself" to avoid talking over opponents, warns Peter Hitchens reacting to the election debate.
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The worst possible moderator bar none. She persistently allowed Wishy Washy Rishy to make unsubstantiated claims over tax rises and consistently let him talk over Starmer. Before calling them both to account when clearly it was Sunak time and time again. This gig was beyond her, shameful.
Sunak and the Tories are a useless bad joke, whereas Starmer is proactively dangerous, as was Blair and Brown.
It wasn't an exasperated laugh from the audience. It was a laugh at the ridiculousness of his statement.
Please stop playing a clip from 2 minutes into the video at the beginning as a teaser.
I agree. Why do they do it?
@@MrMjp58 to get the vid over 10 mins ;)
I agree, it's pointless. Just show us the full interview.
This has become a kind of podcast trope. They all seem to do it. It’s bloody annoying.
To be fair the format was dreadful and gave neither of them any real opportunity to speak about their policies. Let's hope that the debate on Friday will be better. Sunak simply came across as desperately trying to shout over Starmer.
I think you'll find Rishi was doing the presenter's job by asking direct questions and holding Starmer accountable for his empty promises. The presenter only added noise to this debate.
@@SamyTheSheep There is a need for a different presenter
I seriously feel sorry for anyone who had the nerve to sit through this whole thing while these two exchanged absolute twaddle between them...
@@scienceevolves4417 there was some serious anxiety in the audience
James Bowler, permanent secretary at the Treasury, said the civil service was “not involved in the production or presentation” of a document entitled “Labour’s tax rises”.
The dossier was drawn up by Tory strategists, and said it relied on costings conducted by the Treasury.
Sunak also repeatedly referred to the Treasury’s assessment in Tuesday night’s TV debate, claiming Labour’s spending plans had a black hole of £38 billion that would mean a tax rise of £2,000 for every family.
In a letter sent two days ago seen by The Times, Bowler wrote that the £38 billion figure “includes costs beyond those provided by the civil service”.
He added: “Any costings derived from other sources or produced by other organisations should not be presented as having been produced by the civil service. I have reminded ministers and advisers that this should be the case.”
Very poor format, it will change nothing, Sunak shouty and desperate...Starmer should have been more direct..
Kier answers wasn’t convincing. Especially on Taxes. Very disappointing
@@nimzgaz7049why is it important or even relevant?
He'll do whatever his globalist agenda overlords will tell him to do.
Sir Keir admittedly floundered in the debate, but nevertheless he didn’t do any major gaffs.
Starmer missed an open goal by not talking up Labour’s policy to get rid of the NHS waiting list by the next election, every time Sunak tried to rinse him on tax. I’m sure most of us would pay a little bit more to have a health service that was accessible
Sir Flip Flops, direct? Tall order.
The Daily Mail said, the Liz Trust mini budget was - "THE First Real Tory Budget!" - Enough said!
Peter writes for the Sunday Mail
It seems a bit silly of the PM to allege that Labour are going to tax people more, when the Tories themselves have raised taxes 26 times, and have been unable or unwilling to fund public services. He keeps mentioning "The Plan", but what exactly is the plan? We have no details of the plan, the PM has never explained what the plan is, and shows no intention of explaining it. He has claimed credit for the Bank of England policy to reduce inflation, even claiming that inflation is back to normal, despite the fact that inflation was allowed to run rampant by him, and food prices are still 40% higher than they were 2 years ago, and still rising, so no, Mr Sunak, inflation is not back to normal.
Thank you for an educated post!
It's in the nature of Labour to tax more. Conservatives have had to tax more because they need more revenue, but you can't say it's in their DNA.
Are you paid to say this?
🎶Things, can only get worse, can only get worse🎶
Labour will want even more of your money than the useless Tories, so beware.
Bazinga!
sunak was rude and entiled he was horrible
Aw bless you. You must not have met very many people at all, especially in good old England.
Starmer was honest enough to admit he would raise certain taxes, just not the big three.
He's so honest that he even decided not to address his incoming pension tax, so he can be honest about introducing it when the time comes
But what does that mean.....that's like Blackadder telling Baldrick " I'm going to punch you".....
@@Adrian-jk4kx on Mon Dom's, on gas and oil companies. As in, those who can afford it. Not letting our public services either further.
Now you're just being a silly billy, paid Bot/Troll. @@SamyTheSheep
Sunak came across as arrogant and petulant!!!
Takes one to know one 💙
Loved it. First time Sunak showed what he stands and what fights for. Low taxes
@@nimzgaz7049 Lower taxes in one aspect and raise it in disguise with another.
@@nimzgaz7049 Sunak loves putting up taxes, he truly gets off on it, the facts are there for all to see!
He had to other bloke needs exposing as doesn’t stand for anything
Starmer had nothing to say other than look at the past 14 years.
Maybe he thinks that is his best argument
It appears he's out of touch, and has failed to address people's concerns. He's not our friend, no matter how hard he tries to mirror the public discourse.
That's true. But David Cameron equally used the same argument in 2010. And for better or worse, it worked. And so it's considered an election winning formula.
Eventually whenever a government has long outstayed its welcome and has little optimism to share, the general public typically look at the only viable candidate that has a chance and say "good enough I guess...".
TL:DR - Technically correct, but it's still likely to work
Here is a novel idea, how about answering questions directly, with policy, and er how about the truth!
Sunak is lost to ego and goes to whataboutism all the time.
That's absolute fantasy, Starmer could not tell us how he intends to stop immigration. Chasing gangs when he failed to stop Saville is pure dreaming. We have been paying money to France to stop the emigrates leaving and that doesn't work so no chance of getting their police to take down the gangs they have had years to do that even before we left the EU. Starmer will in effect cut back state pensions by not increasing the tax free allowance so he can grab back from those who can least afford it. Do you think using long words makes you appear more intelligent ? It just shows that your education is lacking 🙃
It was an unedifying spectacle all round. The next one will be different. In any case, Sunak showed himself in a new light.
Neither of them are worth a tab end, dont waste your vote on either.
You would like that @Manoo. All the more votes for Reform, eh?
@@norawright807 You mean the only party worth voting for...Yes.
more important things to do, sorted out my sock draw made sure they are all matching pairs!
What a deranged country.
Twas once not so.
Tories raise taxes bye stealth 😮😮
Labour will raise taxes on the rich and stop private school tax evasion - which Starmer stated. Sunak was weak - and had nothing positively to say about the last fourteen years of Tory Government! This country has had enough of this lying cheating out of touch Government, and Labour just need to get in to power and make peoples lives better - that's all - make peoples lives happier and better1 .
All Labour have to do is get into power and not be Lizz Truss. That's it. A bar set by the tories that is so low it may as well be six foot under.
Starmer stated prior to this debate that Labour 'wouldn't' tax the rich.
Kier answers wasn’t convincing. Especially on Taxes. Very disappointing
Oh my gosh what is it with you people and these 14 years. You're literally Starmer's spokesperson. And to think everyone's lives gets better after a change of government - I'm quite sure I heard Starmer say himself that he doesn't have a magic wand. If he does become PM, God forbid, he'll spend the next decade blaming all issues on those 14 years - much like how Trudeau blames Conservatives after 9 years in office. It's a smart strategy to hide incompetence.
@@rayjames777which means it will do it.😊
Surprisingly delightful show and panel
Sunak was like a spoiled little child and he just lied all the way through.
How can taxes be raised anymore ???????
Congratulations to those who had "mentions time as director of public prosecution" on their bingo card of starmerisms
It adds nothing to the whole process.
Guess NHS waiting lists went up due to strikes and now gone down bit from there.
The question you have to ask is - where were the leaders of the other main parties?
Only one of those two men has any chance of forming a government, and the other should be fighting it out with the minor parties to see who comes second.
Probably a raid on your pockets Peter. Not ours.
Cry me a river.
Luv and Peace.
There are 10 million people aged 65 and over in the UK. 22.6 million people in the UK are enrolled in workplace pensions. So a raid on pensions won’t just affect a handful of billionaires.
Rachel Reeves wants to force pension fund managers to invest a share of pension funds in government-mandated schemes. My guess is, an investment the government forces you to make will probably perform worse than one which you’re free to choose or not. So this policy will also probably reduce pension income.
Why can’t people just be honest and no politician is ever honest .. I think this country needs a leader who has lived the life off some of these people , I think that these two are no more than educated criminals
They have said they are not raising tax for the working people
You think taxes will go up? Who would have guessed?
He has been perf3ctly clear hecis closing loopholes for the rich lol why does no one listen. That's not rasing taxs lol
He has a 185 billion in pledges, that is indeed a huge rise in taxes coming on everybody's income.
The most amusing part is the Labour Mps in charge of that 185 billion have 0 experience.
@@seamuspadraigsanders431 lol sk your saying tory party is the way?
@@seamuspadraigsanders431 Does he? Considering the Labour Manifesto has not been published, that figure comes from the Tories, the Tories claim that Labour are going to spend £48billion, so I have no idea where this new £185billion figure comes from, your imagination?
@@wolfen210959 Sorry I recosted it. So net zero plans over 5 years alone is well over 110 billion.
Police, dentists, 4 submarines, the upkeep of all the policies including pensions etc
Probably be north of 200 billion over 5 years.
NHS has been broken for years and whoever gets in will not change this issue
Waiting lists always go down under Labour and up under the Tories, the Tories have no long term plans for the staffing of the NHS - hence all the migrants working in it - because they do not want a long term future for the NHS. It was them who broke the NHS and Labour will fix it, again.
Dear Peter Hitchins, why do you take these people seriously? I don't.
I'm not sure he actually does, he doesn't believe a word they both say for sure.
Well well, a silent moderator assassin lurks in the depths of Times Radio. I'm sorry that you feel the need to censor opinion. Keep doing your best for democracy. 💙
Mmmmmm Peter Hitchens, daily Mail hardly balanced.....
BBC Employees are Guardian readers....
Hitchens is no advocate of either main party, that's pretty obvious if you listen to him enough - he knows how insipid British politics is now since Blairism infested it.
OF COURSE I'd use private health care if that was what was best for my loved one. They're my LOVED ONES. Anyone who wouldn't seek every possible opportunity to help them as much as possible isn't showing appropriate care for their family. I'm amazed anyone even ASKED such a question.
This has always just baffled me. We're supposed to be nations that celebrate FREEDOM. Individual freedom. That means letting people do what they WANT TO DO. If I want to pay you to do something for me, and you want to take my money and do that thing for me, that is NO ONE ELSE'S BUSINESS. It shouldn't matter what your profession is. You might be an artist, or an engineer. OR, you might be a doctor. It's no difference.
But the Tories have announced a large array of new “policies” which will cost lots off extra tax .
Peter Hitchens: The Anton Ferdinand of the Hitchens brothers
He’s such a intellectual disappointment, in comparison to his much missed brother!
I am no fan but Starmer is smarter than people give him credit. Would it be more powerful for him as opposition to say it was a lie or produce the letter (as Darren Jones has today) by the people who supposedly made the assessment to say it was a lie and should not have been quoted? This over the next few days will lose Sunak more points in the polls, quite literally cocking the gun and pointing it to Starmers head but it goes off and backfires in his own face.
The gov't policy was thorough for now
No choice but to tax the rich because the poorest have been squeezed to the limit forced to use food banks some committing suicide!!!!!
Sunak needs some serious PR advice. In a world where unfortunately, as Hitchens said personality is king. Sunak came across as arrogant, rude, self entitled and like a toddler who doesn't like being told no (Starmer came across as calm and considered, even if he, as is his want said very little). Even when Sunak told the truth about private healthcare and Starmer (I suspect lied) he won as the NHS is essentially like The Vatican to ordinary British voters on all sides.
I would be more concerned about the further entrenchment of undemocratic constitutional changes that labour have planned.
Fascism is undemocratic.
A HUNDRED BILLION A YEAR LOST IN TAX AVOIDANCE BY THE RICH. BUT NOT A WORD SAID ABOUT THAT. ABSOLUTELY PERTHETIC.
Sunak was petulant
To the Ordinary tax PAYE payer have in common, with a British PM, that has a dwelling in California, and paid tax on his UK income, to the tune of £200,000 when his personal wealth, in the UK, is declared as £20million in savings, not his Financial trading accounts, How the Rich LOVE to hide funds, But the NHS can't get any
Starmer is a liar stating that he wouldn't use private health care if he had a family member unwell and he had the money.
This is basically a tory broadcast
A load of BS from both party leaders - my vote will read "none of the above!"
The £2000 is an outright lie
Why is Starmer wearing glassses cost of two and half thousand pounds and shop for food at my local Marks food sore
Politicians debating each other and interrupting each other , oh how rude !! have you've seen televised house of commons ? all of a sudden everybody starts living in cloud-cuckoo land .
Nice day this morning advisors surely that makes a difference as it must come as quite as short this man is a Tory a very rich man very clever he thinks I'm thinking just a selfish pretty unfair this is
True, one of Starmer's good arguments is the Conservatives are taking far too long, for some reason, to turn things around in this country for ordinary people. One of Sunak's good arguments is Starmer will put up taxes by £2,000 on most people already experiencing cost of living pressures.
Starmer will put up taxes, yes. But he will put up taxes by £2 for the poorest people in society and by £2 million on the richest people in society. With a sliding scale for people in between those 2 extremes.
@@timonsolus See, I don't know why we don't tax assets and shares the same way that ordinary workers get taxed. The super rich who make their money off of shares and dividends pay so little tax that they are ripe for the picking and won't affect the majority of the working electorate.
Seems absolutely moronic that neither party seem to be going for this absolutely huge money pile.
@@samsoncooper1 : They put their money in shell companies and claim that they are company assets instead of personal funds. Plus the Tories create lots of tax loopholes for them - it will take Labour a while to unpick it all.
@@timonsolus The richest people in society pay little to know tax, so any increase in taxes would not impact them. The only people affected will be everyone apart from the super wealthy. Unfortunately, we will probably find out who had lied after the election.
Good old Murdoch Radio, nothing like the wrong Hitchins brother to hold forth on his absurd observations.
Sunak was like acting like an 'orrible nasty Chihuahua on the attack
Tories will still be on course to lose.
Peter Hitchins burbles on... and nothing of any value was gained.
i know....he is such a bore
We lost the wrong brother
😢VOTE GG ✊🏿❤
Starmer wasn’t clear on taxes because Sunak just made up a load of tosh.
Vote workers part of Britain
No genocide
Higher tax free threshold
Nationalisation of assets
Can't in my or many constituencies
Tory selfishness times .
Starmer is totally inept. The Tory party are totally inept. What now?! 😕
There are other parties, this is not rocket science
Rishi Lied about labour tax rises to come.
Starmer is a joke…..
*CAN I BEAR TO WATCH THIS TVV4T...???*
If I hear thart toolmaker story again .......broken Record Starmer
How did we end up with these 2. Like the USA having to choose between trump and biden
What a horrible uninspiring choice of candidates we have
Kier answers just didn’t do it for me. I want to trust the guy but so far he has no great strong plans
And now, to make matters worse, we've got "the milkshake clown" to top the list...
@@scienceevolves4417 You have to admit, Nigel will make the other two intellectually-bankrupt political parties ("Tweedle-Dum" & "Tweedle-Dee") raise their game. Pass the popcorn.
i like rishi because hes focused and trying hard to do the right things
@@adrianjohnson7920 I do agree, it will make this campaign somewhat more interesting, although I'm not expecting it will change the outcome very much.
So we desperately want politicians to be held to account and then when they're interrupted to be held to account, we frown upon it, calling it arrogant and entitled behaviour? Our politics is a reflection of our understanding - fragmented and contradictory
Sunak sounded so desperate
He did, by constantly going back to tax when it wasn't the question he looked clueless. Coincidentally, yougov showed the public when asked thought starmer beat sunak on every issue except tax
The elephant in the room is the Brexit disaster.
You forgot to use the word Gammon, that normally fuels your argument where that's concerned. .
@@yippeeki-yay1691 I try not to disparage Brexit voters who simply were sold a barrow full of lies .
@@euroman3726 - Really? The biggest lie was told by Ted Heath in 1975 when he somehow convinced the majority that the UK was joining an economic community and not an impending political project. But hey, let's shove that truth into the back of the folder shall we?
@@euroman3726 - lies? Ted Heath - 1975. I did elaborate on this but my comment was strangely deleted....🤔
@@yippeeki-yay1691 Ted Heath was clear and honest about Britains future , in total contrast to the lies peddled to the British people that led to Brexit .
Thatcher was emphatically NOT "first among equals" in 1984 Peter!
The difference between their families NHS connections, is that Sunak’s parents clearly made a fortune running private GP and pharmacies, whereas Starmer’s actually works in the public sector
Why is this absurd Hitchens bloke ever on any show???
Kier answers wasn’t convincing. For me its about who he is going to cut Taxes and Kier didn’t do it for me.
Neither Labour or the Tories will be able to afford tax cuts. If that is what you are expecting, you will be disappointed.
The mediocre Hitchens had to be the one who survived.
Who cares what Hitchens thinks, he has track record of always being wrong.
The moderator was shocking, the gig was well above her paygrade.
Piers morgan spot on - Sunak won it with his boxing jab jab jab, which bashed Starmer. Sunak went in trailing in polls by -27% but won the bout by +2% per you gov poll. That's a 29% turnaround.
If you actually look at the yougov polling, they performed basically equally overall, BUT Starmer won convincingly on every single issue, but tax and how priministerial they were
Peter Hitchens, what a joker.
Starmer is a born liar. God help this country.
That aged well 😊😊
This guy lost all credibility after his Alex O'connor huff. Keep him away from the media
I think Hitchens can be intelligent on some topics, but he really is a professional cynic & doom monger, when people like Alex dig deeper & question his set in stone beliefs it rattles him. Alex totally deserves an apology for his awful behavior that day, Peter really didn't paint himself well for young youtube viewers.
I totally agree he should apologise @@elvishprincess321
"All" credibility is an overstatement. Yes, Hitchens had a bad day. He wasn’t used to the “debate bro” style of post-Destiny UA-camrs. Even there, it wasn't a systematic O’Connor takedown of every opinion Hitchens has ever expressed.
I generally like Ian Hislop on Have I Got News For You. But if the only show you’d ever seen of him was the one he did with Paula Yates, you’d conclude he was a vile creep.
After this debate.. I'm in for nigel
Thank goodness Reform now have Nigel on board. These two were an embarrassment
Hahaha.....the joke of the day 😂😂
But not a good one....
Labour and Conservative are "Tweedle-Dum" & "Tweedle-Dee" -- Far Left and Centre Left.
Unless for Reform, there is no credible Conservative party.
How are reform any better than the Tories? Reform are nothing but extreme Tories, didn't Farages lies about BREXIT wake his fans up? "If Brexit is a disaster I'll leave the country" but sadly he is still here.
@@klausschumacher7126 exactly I agree the debate was hilarious 😆
@@nuckleknight2 They certainly won't be any worse
Sunsk won and now you are crying 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Yougov shows it was almost 50/50 and that Starmer won on every issue apart from tax
It's my experience that Rishi Sunak is a liar and cannot be trusted about, "Government integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level", 25/10/22 outside number 10.
Go Farage and the Reform party!!!!
A debate between the unelected Sunak and the unelectable champion of Rotherham schoolgirls. Starmer!
I have nothing but utter contempt for these worms.
Don't be fooled,Labour always raises taxes!
No politicians are the brightest stars in the universe.If they were they would be CEOs of businesses like Tesco,whose CEO has just trousered ten million and not like the MPs average £200,000 every year in 'Expenses'.
(Info: Gov.Freedom of Information)
They all do it.
Starmer ruled out raising income tax. They are raising specific taxes on private schools, energy companies, and non doms
What you claim to be MP's 'expenses' actually pay office rent, electricity, stationery and support staff salaries. I should know - I was one. MPs do NOT trouser those funds. Reckless and naive comment, inciting yet further contempt against politicians of all hues. A modicum of research on your part would explain this.
Why interview the clueless Peter Hitchins?
Sunak was very impressive and he will change this country for the better. Starmer was absolutely hopeless. Should he become PM it will be an absolute disaster and he will not last long, Angela Rayner will be the leader , God help us.
Problem with Kier his not saying what his plans are and what he would donwoth Tax cuts for working people. It’s disappointing
At this rate, I believe this time next year we'll end up at no 10 with Diane Abbacus!
Angela will be great. And Galloway would be great as well. No one beats Galloway in a debate.
Hitchens is a horrible right wing Tory never going to get a balanced view from him
Vote Reform rather then Conservative.
Vote SDP rather then labour.